This is perhaps one of the biggest reasons why I hold back at self-improvement.
Personal Improvementimo, if you've changed yourself than your self has changed. Growth can't be fake.
But also, don't change for someone else. If you like where you're at, then someone else will too. If you don't like where you're at, change it.
If you find yourself frequently thinking "Girls won't like where I'm at," it may be a sign that you don't actually like where you're at. The girls in your head aren't real. That's just you thinking about yourself.
You don’t think there’s ever a valid reason to “change for someone else”. Like I get that if someone you don’t like is making you change into someone you don’t want to be, that’s probably bad. But idk I don’t like the “don’t care what other people think” mindset.
It’s not so much “don’t care what other people think” And more “if you change, do it for yourself” It’s great if someone pushes you to change for the better, but at the end of the day, you have to want to make that change. Don’t change in order to get with someone, don’t lie to yourself and change your personality. Change because you want to be a better person, to be a person you feel that that special someone deserves
i mean it just takes some self awareness to know what is socially acceptable and not. Being an alcoholic that is neglecting their relationships is probably an issue
This, there's nothing wrong in wanting to change for someone, as long as is something you want to change or you know is for the best
Changing for someone can make sense in a marriage. Changing for someone you're barely dating or not even dating is madness.
It depends on the change right?
Aren't they the same thing? Can't be multiple yous.
I think it's more than that. I mean for example people often say that the treatment they get is drastically different after they lost weight or something like that. I experienced that too a little bit. As flattering as the new attention is, it does kinda make me wonder and feel shitty. As in i don't have the same worth if I was in a different state. Not saying that everyone is shallow but it's undeniable that being a certain way, meeting those social standards makes us more noticeable. I think it's human to just want to be liked for who we are as a person but it's very rare.
I mean what you say is true, people will treat you differently depending on how you look. It doesn't mean you are more or less valuable.
However when it comes to friendships and such I've found that this only helps with meeting people not growing as friends.
Everyone knows that really attractive person with a crappy personality and everyone tries to avoid said person.
To be honest it takes a LOT of time and work for a friend to know who you are so, it's understandable that people judge based off what they can immediately tell.
It understandably does not feel nice though and is unfortunate.
That's a combination of implicit bias around weight and halo effect. It's definitely real but not everyone is affected by it.
Also, normal weight you is still you.
As in i don't have the same worth if I was in a different state.
No, you don't.
That's the whole point, you are allowed to change states.
The idea that you don't treat people conditionally the same way they treat you conditionally is a problem.
It's more worrying about whether they like you for the core of your personality or because of the things you happen to have at the moment.
If you get a partner when you're very physically fit and very well off financially, if natural to worry that if you let yourself go or lost your job and thus didn't have those things that they might not stay with you
OP was talking about self-improvement, not external things, so money doesn't count.
To a certain extent being physically fit is a reflection on your character. It's says that you are an active person and likely care about health.
There will always be people who judge people based off their appearance, that's just the nature of people.
You might see a person for 5 seconds and in that time you've already made assumptions like age, voice, income bracket, personality, etc.
Why do you feel the "improved version" of you is fake?
I'm not quite sure how to answer this question.
It's not that I feel like the "improved version" of me is fake, but it's more of like I feel if I reached a desirable improvement stage, I wouldn't know if people like me for me or for my qualities I acquired due to self-improvement.
"If those qualities fade away, how would they treat me?" That question repeats in my mind whenever I think about self-improvement.
I wouldn't know if people like me for me or for my qualities I acquired due to self-improvement.
This is why I ask the question. It sounds like you don't see the "Self improved version" of you as the real you. Why would you be scared that they like this new version of you if you didn't think it was separate or fake in some ways?
"If those qualities fade away, how would they treat me?"
This comes from a fallacy that people are 100% consistent 100% of the time, that they don't have bad days or good days. If they are good friends then they will treat you with kindness and compassion if you do slide a little bit or are somehow different at some points.
It sounds like you still identify with the “non-improved” you
But all the qualities you have aquired ARE you now.
I get it m8. Its weird anology but its like you are a box of fireworks that has the capability to ignite and make a amazing lightshow. And once you improve yourself and actually ignite....then its like does that other person want that specific box of fireworks(You), or do they only want to see the endshow, without caring where it came from.
I struggle with that thought aswell, and i think comes from some base layer of us not being validated as childs. Like a seed that was planted not out of love, but out of almost like resentment( i do it if a have to). And as that seed(You) gets taller and grows some branches with leaves, you feel like that growth is just a facade and if they were to see the seed it came from, they would turn you down.
Its really hard sometimes for me aswell. But it try to just focus on myself. Improve myself toward a version of me i want to be. And probably along the journey I will accept that seed. And make peace with it. But until that happens, ive gone to therapy and i try to practice being vulnerable with 1-2 people i really can trust, and also try to take everything at face value. If my friend seems to enjoy spending time with me, then soo be it. I will not try to figure out why the fuck he likes my company.
Hope you find it atleast little helpful. Have a great one!
I wouldn't know if people like me for me or for my qualities I acquired due to self-improvement.
Thats just you. Youve grown and changed and improved yourself. Your SELF changed. Congrats.
"If those qualities fade away, how would they treat me?"
The flip side is that this also means youve changed. People can change for the worse.
The real issue is that thinking that there is some intrinsic self thats always preserved and all of our other life experiences are just addons we stack on top of it is probably an unhelpful mindset. I dont think thats how self-identity works, for most people anyway.
You are unsure if the version of you that hasn't improved would be worthy of love in the eyes of others? Would that version of you be worthy to you?
You are constantly evolving as a person when you experience new things, learn, and grow throughout life. This is reactive, unintentional growth, but is still a sign of you changing as a person over time. Deciding that you want to proactively improve some aspect of yourself, be it something about your physical appearance, work on how you socialize, or change your hobbies, are no less you than what life has turned you into today. These would just be directed and intentional changes.
Have you ever heard of relationships failing because people grow apart? Two people can work at one stage in their lives, but change enough over time to not work in others. It doesn’t mean their relationship wasn’t real before hand, or that the people that they were previously were ‘fake’, it just means that people change all the time.
Don’t let this fear stop you from a journey of self improvement. Become the person you want to become, and never stop working on yourself to be a better person.
Reminds of a Futurama episode where Fry ate a sandwich with Microscopic creatures that made him smarter and jacked and made him attractive Leela but Fry gave it up for the same exact reason as this meme, wondering if Leela Love improved him or his true self.
The difference though is that Fry improved by eating a sandwich, you improve on your own. Your improvements are you.
I came here to mention this exact thing. I also think about "The Devil's Hands are Idle Playthings," where he's able to win over Leela by using the Robot Devil's hands to become a musical virtuoso. But when he loses them at the end of the episode, she's the one person who still wants to hear him play - she came to realize the thought and feeling he put into the music, and that's the part of Fry she really loves. It's a really touching statement, and one of my favorite episodes of the show.
tldr. This is just cope.
Your brain is trying to find any reason not to change coz that's a lot of work and brain are evolionary programed to be lazy.
Everyone can grow and improve. In all stages of life, everyone will have vice and shortcomings. Self-improvement isn’t bad and it’s still you. You are yourself beginning, middle, and end for each facet of self improvement that you embark on.
This is an opinion based response so feel free to disagree, it will also be very blunt.
That's an excuse. Either you don't want to improve and you're coming up with a reason why you "can't" so you don't have to, or you do want to improve and you're convincing yourself not to because it's scary.
Honestly my money is on the first one, and it's not to say you're actively going out there virtue signaling, you might just be lying to yourself about what you want without realizing it. Maybe other people told you their expectations for you and you think you have to meet them, it's one of those "shoulds" that you've convinced yourself is a "want".
The basis for believing this is just the idea that "people who want to change, will", it won't be overnight, it might be scary, but they will work on it anyway.
Bottom line without all the explanation, maybe you're just not ready to change yet, and thats fine.
It’s still you.
Well if I’m being honest, unimproved, im a nerdy loser league of legends gamer who writes manga for fun, and reads one piece. Without me lifting, or improving my style, no way anyone would be into me.
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3mo
Yeah, but there’s other factors that make me unattractive aswell. I’m fairly antisocial, I am very sexually charged (horny) and I’ve only had sex twice for like 5 minutes because I had to go both times (so no experience meaning I can’t satisfy anyone). Im a mixed race Latino, but I look Indian, and Indians are considered one of the least attractive races to most people. I’ve had people call me ugly, cringe, and awkward to my face many times. Im also short, average dong size, with stupid humor. Average Iq, normal career path, not rich or anything. I also get extremely nervous and quiet around new people. So I’m kinda doomed. But it’s nothing a cat and a dog can’t fix. Throw some video games and collectible figurines in there and we set.
I don't quite understand your reasoning here. The improved you is you.
It’s the idea that the self improvement can be very tenuous, that there’s always the possibility that you backslide back into your worse qualities. Take me for example, I’m fat and have some serious self esteem issues when it comes to women, and because of those things I get little to no attention.
Well if I over time improve and in turn build confidence, I’ll more than likely attract more women than before. But how can I trust that they’ll stick around if I fall off the wagon? What if I end up fat again? What if some things happen that chip at my confidence? Can I trust that they’ll be there for me? They never were before, why would they stick around now? What value is a relationship that I don’t believe I can depend on when I truly need it? I’m so lonely and alone, but the idea of getting that love and losing it because I reach a point again where I can’t keep myself together sounds worse than just staying alone and unloved.
And the fear comes from that our positive and negative qualities don’t ever fully leave us, no improvement is guaranteed permanent, so therefore any love we receive after said improvement is just as fluid. It’s a struggle when you need more than a little reassurance after spending so long on your own with no hope of love from the world that anything you get after you’ve worked so hard on yourself has any meaning whatsoever.
This is probably the most apt description of OP's concerns.
What if true self improvement only comes from becoming closer to your true self?
Surprise surprise! You leveling up will help you meet a person with a higher level, who also grinded their ass to that level
She will like the improved you, no doubt
If so, she doesn't deserve you 🤷♂️
At the end of the day, you should really be doing things for yourself. I deeply regret caring too much about what girls thought when I was younger. It messed up a lot of personal improvement for me personally because I was so wrapped up in trying to find a relationship and caring what others thought. Although, I am now 30 and happily married with 2 kids because I started working on myself to become a “higher value” person.
Here is my take on personal improvement: People automatically get stuck in their normal habits because their subconscious programming realizes that the familiar things they do every day is keeping them alive. This is the exact reason why people have a hard time with change in general. It’s why it’s so hard for someone to follow through with big life changes such as career change, breaking up with a toxic partner and the list goes on. One of the most interesting things I read from a philosophy book is that we don’t consider our uncomfortable situations we are in simply because we are familiar with them. From outside looking in, a lot of our individual situations actually suck (unhappy with our boss/career, etc..), but it’s what we are familiar and is keeping us alive. So for most people, life goes on without change until they die. If someone can realize this and break somewhat free of this mindset, they could start improving their personal improvement skills being aware that really all you are doing is slowly moving your “comfortable & familiar” knowledge to a new lifestyle. That goes for either trying to improve yourself overall, a big career change, getting out of that horrible toxic relationship and a lot more.
I’ve been practicing this myself. I am now certified in another field outside of my main career. The thing that matters is consistency. Sitting down for 30 minutes to an hour of learning something new here and there throughout the week works wonders. If you keep doing that, you’ll gain enough knowledge over time that will make it easier to peel away some of those uncomfortable feelings of a bigger vision.
If you're improving for yourself then there shouldn't be a problem with other people liking you for the "improved you", since you most likely like yourself better as well, and if you are truly improved then it's not just a fake attribute, but a new part of your identity. If you're improving for others and are "faking it" or it's "not truly you", then yeah I can see that being a problem.
What I realized is that if I work on myself there are people that I consider some part of my life who try to hold me back since they cling to what they are used to. It is better to be alone and in authenticity with yourself than unhappy unauthentic and alone.
Try to find out why you don't want to be alone and validate your feelings. If people hold you back and want to sabotage you they are not interested in your highest good
Definitely a lot of fallacious logic here. Where did you get the impression that after improving you somehow are not you anymore, or you less you than like when you weren’t improved. Would you ever consider the opposite that like the improved you is the true version of you that like you haven’t been reaching your potential and maybe you’ve been like working at a level fathoms beneath yourself due to things like depression, or lack of motivation? as I’m sure you already can guess this is a very self-defeating mindset and I just think it’s fundamentally based off of like an untrue premise that you become less you as you improve. You’re still just as much as you as you were you’re the same person.
but it was you all along.
Simple. The improved you is literally you. that's it. growth is growth, and to say growth is a bad thing would be stupid
"Don't change for someone else." But wouldn't modulating one's behavior to appease the one they care for, especially if the one they care for doesn't approve of said behavior, a good thing???
What the fuck? This is the stupidest thing I've seen this month
This is an extremely strange take. It has never once occurred to me that I am a different person after I've improved myself.
The only thing I can think of is like... If you improve your income, a person might partially like you for your money, but that says more about them than it does about you.
When someone says this, I have a counter argument. Do any person would want to date you if you still acted like the baby you were at 2 years old? Every human has some standard they do everything based on. And that persists even in times of love. If you were like a baby in terms of personality, nobody would like to date you. Just like if you were a self destructive person with thousands of red flags under your belt, things would be same.
I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but it sounds that you're just creating excuses in your head to not work on your issues.
Being able to continuously work to be a better version of yourself is probably one of the best qualities a person can have.
Males have to work hard in every aspect of their life to get admiration, just turned 28 and finally accepted it
This picture will never make any sense to me, the improved you is the new you.
Why would you be pressed that someone didn't like the only you.
So you’re stagnating because if she enjoys a better version of you, her love is fake?
Sweetie, you need to grow up. Your evolving self is a gift to both yourself and everyone whom loves you.
Honestly, everyone including you, will like the “improved you”. It’s natural to appreciate someone’s growth and see them differently as they gain new hobbies/habits. I don’t understand this obsession with needing someone to like “the real you that didn’t need to change”
I’m sorry hahaha but that’s a really stupid excuse
Aren't you the one who should feel comfortable with yourself the most tho?
If you are being blocked by thought of losing her or your inferiority complex then doesn't the relationship kinda hołd you back?
You can talk with her about it, but improving is a way to go
Your improved you is you, once the improvement really becomes a part of what makes you you there is no old version of you, like it's not completely gone and neither is the new version a completely new being but rather an extension of the old.
So when someone lives the improved you that person realy loves you and not some arbitrary concept
Do you believe the improved you isn't you
If your improvement allows you to be more wholehearted in life, there will only be more of your heart available to love. If you feel better about who you're improving into, less ego will get in the way of your ability to receive love.
More than that, when you improve, you improve your ability to give love, and that becomes its own joy. It feels really good to be able to be better to those around you, and to see that positively impact them.
This is why I don't like being attached to improvement.
It's just me, always has been me and always will be me.
Am I different? Maybe, i do different things, but I am still me.
The how I do things has improved under certain metrics, I am faster/more accurate, sure. But that's just the result of me doing things over time.
I don't owe "improvement" to anybody, I like being able to do things better than I did them yesterday because I like it.
To be fully honest not that good at doing it yet, and that's okay. I also realize that nobody is setting a minimum, so the previous sentence is due to a bias, but it's okay.
This would honestly be a great video topic for Dr. K to cover.
And I get your gripes, conditional love leaves you feeling hollow and always striving for a standard to achieve or maintain, for otherwise you would "not be enough". 2 things that helped me were my faith, and the realisation that the love of someone else doesn't define my value as a person. I improve for me, because I feel like I deserve a healthy, muscular body , success in life and a balanced lifestyle. A happy relationship is, to put it bluntly, a minor detail for me.
tl;dr love yourself unconditionally and you'll stop worrying about this question in general.
That’s why I’ve been in and out of therapy so much. As soon as I start to change, my wife gets insecure and makes me feel guilty about it.
I remember a quote from Bojack Horseman. He says “Do you think I’m a good person deep down” and his friend Diane replies:
“That's the thing. I don't think I believe in deep down. I kinda think that all you are is just the things that you do.”
Will she like you for the baby you once were that couldn't speak, couldn't walk, and shit its pants? After all, you've changed since then, haven't you?
Oof. Don't do that to yourself. An improved you is still you.
Everyone is a hedonist lump at their core. But its the stuff we do aside from indulge lumpy that people fall in love with.
True story, now I will not be able to sleep
Improved you IS you, simple as that. It feels like you're comparing your current self against the version of yourself in your head that you think of as "you", which is probably a few updates behind, especially if you're coming from a place of low self esteem or poor self image
you’re always you man.
Why should it matter? You are you.
The improved you is you
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