After 4 years of waiting, the first season came with only 8 episodes. Is there anything that can be done to ensure that the next season comes with around 25 episodes?

The first season desperately either needed more episodes or a parred down scope. Really hoping it was popular enough to warrant 12 episodes at least next time.

Ofc there’s nothing to be done. We just have to wait and see.

No, not really. A lot of Amazon originals have 8 episodes per season. The Boys, Invincible, Fallout, etc.

You do have to remember a lot of the people making this see this as a job. It's not as deep for them as it is for fans. They're going to do what seems most economically reasonable.

It took Viv and her team over 3 years to go from writing to release of Helluva Boss's latest episode. Animation takes a long time.

It's wildly unlikely. Modern shows tend do have higher costs per show. Additionally, syndication on television is no longer the gold standard in how to make money from a show, which is a big part of what used to drive long episode counts.

8-12 episodes per season is the new norm and unless consumers as whole shift all of our behaviors completely to never watch short seasons any more, there's not much we can do to change that.

VA work is done. There’s nothing we can do now to change the episode count/length

Yeah the season 100% needed more breathing room, they had so much to say and not enough time to say it

Considering the absolutely overwhelming response to the season though, considering it even broke a few records iirc, I’d say it’s entirely plausible that we’ll get a long season 3 (S2 was already started before S1 was out so if S2 is longer it’s for other reasons)

The fact it's a damn musical I'm sure adds to the production time

Well the song count in S2 is going to be higher so there’s one hint that it’ll be longer. So in a way, we kinda already did our part by watching this show 

25? You’re insane. Anyways, regardless, a few things to consider. First they have confirmed that s2’s wait will be shorter than pilot to s1. And they didn’t even start s1 until s1 of helluva was almost done. Also they probably have a better and more efficient flow now. So my prediction with all of this info and still keep the same quality I will guess max episodes they can make is 12. But I hope for 15, I’m fine with 12 though

Sure, just don't watch for 12 years then pretend everything since then is the same season.

Is there anything that can be done to ensure that the next season comes with around 25 episodes?

No. 20-25 episode seasons are dead, at least outside dedicated animation companies. But for streaming services we now get 8 (12 if we're REALLY lucky), which is fucking terrible. Entertainment is dead, and now there is no room to go slow or for stories to take their time. It's all rushed plot, and if it's not a hit, it gets cancelled.

100k+ and a willing participant

I mean if you’ve got a few mil lying around I’m sure Amazon will answer your prayers, but outside of that: lol.

Agreed. The pace is way too fast.

25episodes ? Yeah that's too much imo.

As for why it took 4 years: That's actually not much.

Animation is amongst the last steps in the "cartoon making" process (being followed by comp and maybe a bit of advertisement).

Many things come before that. You need to secure funding, prepare contracts, writing scripts, draw concept arts and storyboards, record voicelines and songs (at least a v1), create assets (characters, props and backgrounds)...

That takes A LOT of time. I wouldn't consider production to have started until the asset making stage. It's all preprod before that. And that's the most time consuming part by far.

Luckily, when you've done it once... It's much faster the second time.

Also, COVID.

Next season will probably be 12ish if i had to guess. It probably only got 8 because its a new ip and a show based in hell could be "controversial" and old executives still don't get things like youtube sucess as real sucess. But numbers and ratings dont lie the show did very well and well liked so it will probably get more episodes and funding and be taken more seriously behind the scenes

Who's we about not feeling emotional weight about Vaggie revelation or about chaggie needing more chemistry you don't need a lot of episodes to see how ridiculously in love and how much they trust each other 

As for 25 episodes this ain't an anime mate and even those don't get 25 episodes anymore if  would cost waaaaayyy too much especially with how famous all the voice actors are you're asking for the impossible 

Nothing we can do

25 episodes is probably unreasonably optimistic. 12 for Season 2 seems like it would be a decent number though, and maybe we can keep our fingers crossed for a few more than that.

it’s already been confirmed thag lute and alastor r getting solos, so most likely we will be getting more wpisodes. amazon starts a new show off with an eight episode trial

You’re talking like songs of this quality can just be pumped out by the dozens.

I study media design and production and what really annoys me and my colleagues is the recently trending "only 10 episodes"-forrmat. This is also one thing we (my friends/colleagues and I) discussed about this series. Even tho we know what it takes to produce a series like this and we really do respect and appreciate it: everything feels way too rushed. It just feels like slapping one episode after another. We really hope we'll get more into everything in the next seasons. But for now we are like :/

Exactly how OP said, I was deffo surprised when Vaggie was revealed as a former exorcist, but the depth for it to really go bonkers was just missing. Also: why did she suddenly get wings? It's too random to understand right away that Vaggie "earned them" this time (which took me way too long to understand and tbh, I am still confused). There are a lot of holes and I really really do hope that it will get better the next episodes/seasons.

Dont know if this is a common take or not but I wish the show wasn’t on Amazon. Id rather have it be on youtube like Helluva

This 8 episodes a season is shit and makes no sense. Nobody like this system

Sure. Find a billionaire who is a fan and get them to pay the bills. The season will be as long as the check-writers want it to be.

Some shows get even less. Good Omens has only six episodes for each of its two seasons.

Nah, 8 episodes per season seems to be the new streaming standard

Watch it over and over and make your friends subscribe to prime and do the same to boost a little the share index

I don’t think they accept donations anymore

Things don't really do 25 episodes anymore and she's already doing Helluva Boss completely free on Youtube.

I dunno. I just don't like to pressure animators to do more filler when it's already such a difficult job, especially if you don't use an AI crutch.

No your never going to get a 20+ episode season in the streaming era. That's just how it is. Most a show will get is 10-12.

There is actually a really good reason, and it's a reason out of Viv's control:

Amazon only gave Viv 8 episodes to work with for season one. So unfortunately, it's not within her control, and there isn't really anything we can do about it. I think Viv and crew did the best they could do with what few episodes they were given to work with.

Real answer? Buy merchandise on Amazon.

Be careful what you wish for. This crew knows how to tell a story at this pace so slowing it down is going to introduce new problems. The time constraints are forcing them to focus on the most important and best parts of the story. We don't have filler. We don't have time to get tired of anyone.

They were already in the process of making season 2 so I doubt it. Honestly, I think hazbin fans need to start taking what they get. This isn’t a massive animation studio like Cartoon Network, they’re a small team, and they’re making a whole other series at the same time that is completely free.

Coming in just to point out that a lot of the pacing of Season 1 feeling off does come from having a much wider scope to explore. You need to introduce all the characters - even if they aren't going to be super relevant until later like Vox and Velvette. The second season won't have that same burden and thus will have more room to tell a focused story without having to introduce everyone again.

Idk, hold the entire studio and cast to ransom?

It’s Amazon at least most of their originals are 8 episodes per season

IIRC, I read or heard (can't remember fully) somewhere that Hazbin was basically finalized in some form by the time Amazon picked it up, so what they had was condensed into the allotted episode count.

I’m looking forward for 25 episodes too, but unfortunately Prime might have other plans. If there is, I’d like to see some filler episodes so things get more fleshed out.

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It's pretty crazy that my only real complaint was related to pacing, number of episodes, and the length of episodes. At least with shoes like Invincible and The Boys, the episodes are an hour at least

Not really. Animation takes a lot of time and is expensive. The era of long seasons is over. But the quality of animation is a lot higher than it was when we had 23 episode seasons in the 80s and 90s.

Fans aren't really in a position to make demands. You consume or you don't.

"Is there anything that can be done to ensure that the next season comes with around 25 episodes?"

Realistically, as consumers? No. Beyond asking for it I guess. But beyond that there's nothing we can do.

Not if you want the quality to be maintained and if you want season 2 to be released in the next decade lol

Chain ourselves somewhere, start k!lling people...out of the absolute deranged options there's no way we can do that.

Think that to have 25 episodes it would come out in 2027 maybe, if that serves a relief somehow...

To a degree, the number of episodes that are going to comprise season 2 is up to Vivziepop herself. Animation is both time-consuming & expensive. So, I wouldn't be surprised if Vivziepop sets up some kind of crowd funding site to raise money for hiring additional animators & possibly upgrading the equipment needed for producing the episodes of Hazbin Hotel, & to an extent, Helluva Boss. Let's see what Vivziepop does next.

25 episodes? In this economy? That’s not the meta anymore.

Man people are entitled these days. Do you know how much WORK it is to animate 25 episodes? And how expensive that would be? Just let Viz cook, it's her story to tell. Not yours.

I’m sure someone would make you a deal

Give money

It's Amazon. Like someone else said, most series only have 8 episodes

Well, since it took 4 years to make 8 episodes, it'd only make sense to wait 12.5 years for 25 episodes!

I don't think there's a lot of streaming series that go past 16 episodes (could be wrong but can't think of any ATM) in one season. They did eight because A24 and Amazon weren't sure how well it would do with regular audiences. Once they saw numbers coming back in, they were more confident about investing into a longer season, which will be 12 for season 2 iirc, and a third season that I think should be at least as long as season 2.

I don't know about 25 episodes since animation does take a lot of time,but I definitely think something like 10 or 12 episodes would be better for future season and to tell the story viv wants to tell, but also not rushing things

Not really. Unfortunately, most streaming services, if not all, don’t like 20+ episode seasons, and prefer more “bingeable” shows, which is why we see more 8 episode seasons. The most you’re probably going to get is 12 episodes.

However, I do think streaming services underestimate people’s ability to binge 20 episodes lol.

A deal........

I feel like we need longer seasons but not neccessarily 25. I think even just growing it to 12 like Helluva Boss' second season could help. Truthfully I kinda like the compressed format and how much damn character is fit into each episode of Season One, even if I agree the story as a whole could have used more 'meat'.

I do actually wonder how differently the show was set up due to the brevity of episodes, like the choice of characters (it sounds like Sir Pentious was added last minute over a slew of other characters) and how many ideas that would have initially been stretched across one or two episodes may have been compressed to play together in some sort of synergy.

Just expanding on characters and maybe introducing less new characters.

Rewind the clock 20 years to when a network would buy a full season. We're looking down the barrel of 13 episode streaming seasons at best.

It was probably a risky venture considering it was an indie studio

Makes sense to have a lower risk investment to see the reaction (and profit), and if it does well enough increase budget for more episodes for later seasons

Overrated

Tbh I prefer 8 good episodes over 25 meh ones where at least half of them end up being fillers. Quality over quantity, but that's just my two Cents

It has NOT been 4 years.

Amazon only gave them 8, 20 something minute episodes

I just hope it doesn't go the way of invincible, i like the show, but is just to damn short, i wosh we have more time to know and explore the world on the next season a bit better, more character developments, more intreaguing plot lines, and just more really with a better paste.

Easiest option is to funnel millions of dollars into stock at Amazon and force a bigger production!

It’s the only reasonable response! <3

This isn’t a fucking Nickelodeon show. 8 episodes per season is common. Season 2 will have slightly longer episodes though

You hit a lot of very good points about the cons of the show, and I very much agree with this post. I thought that the first season was gonna be longer with 12-15 episodes of 20 minutes each but when only it was only eight I was disappointed a most. The story like you say was rushed to cram a 6 month period in 8 episodes with more characters than number of episodes. However I will give them the benefit of the doubt that the higher ups in Amazon were nervous that the show would not take off as it did, so they did this (hopefully last) short season to see both fan reactions and profit with prime subscribers. So let’s hope for a longer season or longer episodes with the same number per season

The episodes should have either been 40-45 minutes long or there should have been 2-4 more of them. I think that’s a sentiment everyone can agree on. Even if you view it as more of a Act 1 it still has issues because of the pacing.

Vaggie should keep her hairstyle like this. She looks great

Lmao no. The industry has changed, 8 episodes is pretty much the standard.

It feels like there was supposed to be more

You can buy out A24 and pump millions of dollars into production while flashing your middle finger at the remaining shareholders.

No. I thought it was fine. I domt WANT it to be a long drawn out show. The shorter nature of the season relative to other shows made it easier to enjoy.

25 episodes is overkill with length of how each one is. 12 is a fair amount for the standard.

The days of 26 episode seasons is long over.

It won't. The episodes are too long. The most you'll get is 13

It will definitely never be that long. Streaming seasons of animated shows never are.

Single digit seasons seems to be the norm for a lot shows nowadays.

I mean, to ensure it? Go back in time to when any show that makes it gets a full season? For real though 8 episodes on a show like this isn't super low. Beyond that with a few comments made by viz, it sounds like she has no interest in actually running things as a business or expanding. She likes the indie world and wants to keep doing things that way. Which I respect and will keep the soul of the show alive. But that will also slow down season releases and length of seasons. If she leans into the universe she's creating that would be your best shot, but not on hazbin. Maybe the next show. When she gets to the point (if she's willing too) she's running a media company and acting as head creative, allowing others to develop some of the content on their own, then full seasons.

I think at least some of it was requiring that they prove their mettle. I do think they’ve done that.

Throughout the years, all of the fan art has served as a love letter to Vivzie; the fan merch is what demonstrated the very real monetary value of the shows and gave producers the willingness to bring forth a real-world trial… which has been the 8-20 minute episodes. I truly think that the millions of streams and downloads - plus all of the money spent on official show merch - is going to grant us longer seasons with more and longer episodes. We’ve proven financial viability… and that’s what the studios care about more than anything. I can’t wait to swe whay she can do with a longer leash!

We should watch it as much as possible to show how successful it is, so execs will allow them to make more than just 8 episodes

get appointed to amazons board and convince them it’s a viable streaming schedule.

I honestly loved how fast-paced it is. Many shows waste time with useless dialogue. While Hazbin manages to get it over without boring the viewer. Even though I wish for more episodes too. But in the same fast-paced style.

While I highly agree the next season needs more episodes, and the amount we got felt like Vivzie was taking whatever she could get, I hope with how popular the show proved they are able to approve the creation of more episodes per season and attain the budget for it. In a show about character development we didn’t actually get that much.

All we need to do to get 25 episodes is go back on 20 years of streaming service history and return to network television.
Long seasons used to make money because people would tune in each week and watch commercials. Eliminate commercials and turn the whole season into one single subscription service price, and suddenly any financial incentive to make a longer show goes away. It's economics. Animation is expensive.

Review it for anazon so they know

It would require a large amount of money. How to acquire it, however, that would be most difficult. We need some reason for many people to purchase the merchandise. Then, again large quantities of food could be sold in the show’s likeness, like when McDonald’s sponsored Batman Forever.

Vivzie has a Patreon. Fund her.

Md prayers in a nutshell

Maybe if you steal a nuclear weapon and pop up on the giant TV screen at the next UN Security Council meeting to demand Amazon make 25 episodes, Dr Evil-style

Yeah why don’t you be Viv herself and then come talk to me when you decide to post this

To get it asap, hire more writers, directors, animators, editors, make sure they get paid fair wages, and make them work four times as hard. To get them whenever, just let them continue what they’re doing and wait for a bit longer. The smart choice is the latter, but I think most people want the former.

I think we only needed one more episode to flesh out Adam a bit more. It’s crazy that Adam never really showed any signs of hatred at Charlie despite her being the daughter of one of his ex’s. Lilith leaving him clearly still angers Adam and Charlie’s mere existence serves as a constant reminder of what Lucifer took from him.

This isn’t a problem with the show, but this is a recent problem with streaming exclusive shows. Less than 10 episodes being released at a time, and the networks and runners, expect immediate gratification from what little they put out.

I’m hoping that the first season was popular enough that it cleared 10 episodes minimum… or at least longer episodes.

It’s heavily implied that Sir Pentious’s sacrifice was the reason he got into heaven.

It needs so many more episodes desperately. I have a lot of trouble recommending people to the show because it has a lot of good elements but it's so very rushed and short and doesn't have the time to actually develop the characters enough. 16 episodes for it or more would be great

Voice acting ended like a month ago so we should be seeing it in like 2 or 3 years or maybe even 4

Either boy cot prime or invest in prime

Animated shows are lucky to get even 12 episodes nowadays

Yeah, not gonna happen. If you want 20+ episode seasons, look to the East, because modern Western Media has completely abandoned that format. We’re lucky if we get 12 episodes a season these days.

apply for a job there and work 25/7

12 years