This is X's & O's! This is a recurring Day-After-Game thread where we talk about and share game highlights and lowlights! This is a serious discussion, all top level comments must be Questions, Highlights or Play Breakdowns.
ANY TOP LEVEL JOKE/MEME WILL BE REMOVED!
Lets start breaking down the good, the bad, and the ugly.
I was caught off-guard when I saw Love only had a 50% completion rate. But at the same time, there were, what, like 6 or 7 passes that hit the WR directly in the hands that weren't caught? It wasn't even a case of guys having butterfingers as much as it was mostly just fantastic coverage by the Saints secondary. Give the young guys (see: literally all of them lol) more time to develop, and they'll start hauling more of those in.
With how ridiculously tight the Saints coverage was, it's really promising to see that Love's only interception resulted from an arm punt heave rather than any of the small windows he was forced to throw into all game long
My favorite dropped pass was the one Vilma was going on about the great play defender made as the reply is showing the perfect throw hit Reed right on the hands without being touched by the DB.
This game made me appreciate Musgrave a bit more, because he caught every single ball that was catchable. Need to see more stability on his feet, but he definitely has the hands and speed
Watson coming back will help a lot too, him being a deep threat could open up the middle for Musgrave, Reed and Doubs
Really think this offense could take off when Jones comes back.
One can only hope. But first, we must address the run blocking issues. LaFleur wants to play based on a balanced run-pass offense, and that won't work when the RBs routinely have to avoid a tackle before they're even back to the LOS. Lotta work for Stenavich in a short week. And yes, losing the entire left side of the offensive line doesn't help.
I really like the part where we came back from down 17 in the 4th quarter and won the game.
On a more serious note we seemed to be way more potent on offense than the scoreboard gave us credit for. It felt like Love had 10+ passes that could have been caught or called PI that ended up as incompletions. Then the flea flicker messup, the Patrick Taylor 1st down throw messup, all the inexperience offense penalties on top. I'm really interested to see what the QB school has to say about the performance with that all-22 film.
On defense pressure is life for us. We have to extend Gary ASAP because he's only going to get pricier.
I think this is what bothers me when looking at "stats". To me, you have to actually watch the game and evaluate each play. IMO, Love had a great game, minus 2 or so bad passes.
Yeah I said something about the offense looking good but stalling after crossing midfield in the game thread at halftime and got ripped apart by people who just quoted stats at me
That’s where I was at. Felt like every drive we had to go 15-20 yards for a first down instead of 10. Thought we moved the ball relatively well just kept shooting ourselves in the foot.
Right while every saints scoring drive except the missed field goal was a short field
We had over 100 yards of penalties too. Just really making it difficult for ourselves.
Totally agree with you but that pick was godawful. Complete frustration throw. Actually in a weird way it makes me more impressed with his perseverance.
Yes and no. That INT was on 3rd down and it went 41 yards. It was effectively an arm punt. And while Doubs was definitely not open, those are exactly the kind of calculated risks that QBs other than Aaron Rodgers like to take. Where the chance of completion may be low, but the consequences of an interception are also low. And it was honestly a great throw. Doubs got held up by the CB and easily could have drawn a PI penalty. He would have had a good shot to snag the ball in front of the safety if not for that.
100% this. I was defending that decision in the bar. It was essentially a punt with a chance of an upside.
Also if you watch the coverage the saints baited love into that throw showing single high man coverage which they were in a lot but the rotated at snap in a unique way to get love on that one. Still everything you said stands for the point too. The no flag there was frustrating but the refs let them play physical until late 4th quarter.
Yea it’s why I’ve always been against the betting stuff. The integrity is never gonna be perfect for people when they think that the refs can swing outcomes. With that said consistency is a problem but I don’t think it’s always on the refs. If the refs let you play handsy for nearly an entire game and then they start calling it you only really have yourself to blame. Had the team not been handsy then you aren’t relying on the refs to be consistent. My concern comes in when the refs call it tight all game but then when it matters most they let it go. I don’t think though there is anyway to completely mitigate that as a potential problem. Human error will happen especially when it comes to subjective calls.
I wasn’t that upset. It was third down and he sailed that thing so far it was almost as good as punt. lol
Yeah on the flip side his stats from week 1 and 2 looked significantly better than his actual play.
This was easily his best game film, but his worst Statline
Really just the two bad passes that had no chance and weren’t off because of communication. The overthrow on Musgrave and the shot to doubs where saints baited him with a switched coverage. Otherwise he had a ton of balls on the money but the physical play that wasn’t called most of the game kept us from catching the ball or just out right drops. Also 3 weeks in and MLF seems to be having issues getting the run game going full time. No jones hurts but Dillon had a few runs hit in backfield as well as others called back on penalties. Even still not enough action going downhill.
I do really like though that with teams playing single high or cover 0 against us MLF has turned Love free to fire balls down field. That’s part of Love completion percentage lots of teams build high completion percentages by throwing 15 balls at or behind the los while love was attacking downfield over and over. I like that for this team especially when jones and Watson are back.
Ah yes, that was my favorite part as well.
I agree about the offense. I thought Lafleur had a good game plan and the team just kept getting in its own way with penalties in the first half. There were a couple of drops where the receivers let the DBs make a play on the ball when I would have liked to see them be a bit more physical to box the DBs out and secure the catch.
This is such a common thing with young receivers. What excites me is they are getting these continued opportunities despite their struggles. I mean, just look at Reed. Dropped a perfect ball that should have been a TD. Flat out dropped a little flat on the 2-yard line that’s probably a TD, dropped another perfect ball on a corner route, had another contested catch he failed to bring in…and made the best catch of the game when we needed it most.
It felt like Love had 10+ passes that could have been caught or called PI that ended up as incompletions.
So I actually rewatched the game this morning looking exactly for this. I remembered thinking at halftime that, even though his numbers weren't great, he was still putting the ball on guys.
By my unprofessional count, there were 11 passes where he put the ball in a position to be caught but it was incomplete due to a drop, missed PI, or a great play by the defensive back. Honestly, most of the time it was just great defense. The Saints have some legit defensive backs.
I like that Love continued to throw to guys, even if they struggled earlier in the game. Reed is a great example. He had some drops, but Love continued to throw to him and he had a great catch on the final touchdown drive.
During the game, there was a throw I said out loud while in there air "oh man what a throw". Defender made an insane move on it to make it incomplete. Sometimes that's just how the NFL is.
This game is summed up with awful execution. Plays were there, it was just poorly executed. The throwback, if you tracked the play, Wicks was wide open (maybe more with YAC). Deep ball to Musgrave, etc.
The mid-range pass seems to be a good niche for this crew. The deep ball looks are there but it doesn't seem like they can get on the same page. WR is thinking post and Love throws middle. Kind of similar on some of the short tosses. WR wants to stop and Love throws over the shoulder.
Although those red zone fades are downright beautiful. God does Love put those on the mark.
Love just kept slingin it and the receivers were able to make a couple plays and they got it done! What a game. He seems more Brett Favre than Aaron Rodgers in that respect. Doesn't give up and seems to exude a lot of confidence and impeccable body language.
Problem is without Jones our run game is terrible. I couldn’t imagine us staying with Dillon after this year and Jones is almost 30 so we need more there in future years.
Good take
Agreed. The comeback simultaneously came out of nowhere and also felt inevitable. The foot shooting was the biggest hold up I felt. Once we stopped doing that things moved well. I recommend not making it a sustainable plan. So if we could play cleanly and not get dumb avoidable penalties like false starts and personal foul late hits.
Just came from the QB school video, guy loves Love and MF playcalling, mostly wants to see Love clean up some of his footwork.
Takeaways:
Offense -
I think one reason Jordan’s efficiency and accuracy is because he and the receiving corps are literally growing together, which is expected. I believe the Love we see now and the Love we see in 2 months will be completely different.
Love needs to develop a finesse with his touch on the 15-20 yard (in air passes) he missed 3-4 big plays down the field. The Musgrave pass down the middle is the biggest example. He also has done this a few times previously this season as well.
The biggest takeaway with him is he’s young and growing w/his receivers and as a offense as a whole. Not having Aaron Jones shows he helps in so many ways, blocking, establishing the run and as a reliable outlet. I hope he’s back Thursday.
We’re 2-1 after 3 games I’ll take it and Jordan has 7TDs (and 1 rushing TD) and 1INT as a passer 655 yards he’s doing everything we could’ve expected. Aaron Jones please come back.
Defense -
The biggest takeaway is unlike last week we played 60 minutes, yes it was bend not break but in the end the defense made enough plays to win the game. The defense only allowed 10 points, if we can get those types of performances this team will be fun to watch all season.
No Jaire, no problem. - The back four played well, rotated in and out and stayed fresh. They contained Olave and Thomas, obviously the absence of Carr helped but no one was apologizing last week and wouldn’t have this week with our injuries.
The pressures and hurries from the DL Clark and Gary (3 sacks) getting pressures is really game changing it’s fun watching the DL when it’s clicking on all cylinders. We need more of that especially against Detroit.
We’re 2-1, tied for first almost a quarter into the season (after Thursday); winning Thursday and continuing to grow offensively and defensively would go a long way. Be nice if Bakh, Watson, Jaire, and Jones could all play. If we win we’d be 3-1 (2-0) in division and have a 2 game lead over Detroit. This is a really big game.
Go Pack Go
I told myself before the season that the offense was young, there would be miscues, there would be inconsistency.
But man, that was a frustrating watch.
Toure had a rough, rough game. Reed has 3-4 balls go in and out of his hands, including a would-be TD. *Dillon was bad enough to be benched, and that's really something given that LaFleur usually lets guys play through their issues.
At least Musgrave came in with hot piss. If he hadn't been consistently catching his balls and converting for 1st, the offense may not have found it's legs at all yesterday.
two words: Dontay Wicks!
guy has very sure hands, runs good routes. I want this dude to get schemed up for, I want him to the the no. 1 option on multiple plays. Less Toure, less Doubs, more Dontay!
We may see him jump Toure on the depth chart for sure. I think Watson, Doubs, and Reed are still solidly our top three options at WR though.
Wicks has played 114 snaps compared to Toure's 77 this season so I think he already has. Although on the official depth chart they technically play different positions. Toure is behind Reed at the slot position.
Dillon still has good hands and should still be a menace against DBs on check downs. Didn't see much of that at all, even when he was alone in the flat a few times and Love chucked it deep into double / triple coverage.
We have to wait and see on how good his hands are. That was another area he regressed in last year and it was bad. 7 drops on 40 targets which was the worst by any player in the league in that range of targets. Only has had a few throws go his way so far this year but he bricked a wide open catch against the Bears week 1 too.
Dillon was bad enough to be benched
I haven't been able to watch much, but I know he has had trouble staying upright. Is there a discernable issue going on with him?
To be honest, I thought he was fine staying upright yesterday. He seemed better this week than he did last week, and some of the issues are derived from the O-line not creating enough room sometimes too.
It's basically worst case scenario for Dillon. His strength is inside running, and our iOL is terrible right now. Either we play to his strength and get blown up, or we run him outside and he gets blown up because he isn't good at that. Lose-lose either way.
Part of it is that the o-line is just getting crushed in the run game. Guys are getting through to the backfield before the handoff is even completed.
But taking that, he just is not able to create on his own. And for a guy his size, he does not seem to be able to shake guys off unless he's already got a full head of steam.
Basically, he is not Aaron Jones.
There was a moment in the QB school video where its a fake hand off, and you see Dillon hop into the hole in the oline men, and immediately get stopped. Now, he didnt have the ball so it was fine, but the fact he jumped instead of ran through was concerning to me.
If that’s a habit of his or technique…
Id watch the video and decide for yourselves though
Edit:its around 8:40 , Dillon goes onto his toes almost
Meyers sucks ass is the biggest problem
i’m not really the biggest fan of toure, i don’t think he’s bad but i would rather see some other dudes play over him
The contested catches are the big problem right now IMO. Hopefully that will improve with time but right now they are really struggling to hold onto the ball through any contact. Love has been giving them chances and they have been super close on a few(Reeds drop in the endzone) so hopefully as they get some experience those actually get hauled in.
Reed looks promising, Wicks is doing good for his draft status, but Toure looks a bit overwhelmed. I really do think Musgrave is going to be a huge part of the offense by end of year. You can see week by week they are trying to get him isolated and it's starting to convert. Haven't had a TE that could threaten safeties down the seam since Finley, if Musgrave is legit he could add a completely new dimension to the offense.
The inexperience showed the most in this game than any other game this season (I’m honestly surprised it took this long for it to show), but the amount of holding calls literally ruined our offense. We have to be disciplined, no matter how young this team is
Playing one hell of a experienced defense makes it look like it looked for long stretches of the game. These Saints DBs knew exactly with how much body contact they would get away with, that's experience showing.
Obviously it didn't help that our open receivers usually had their gloves buttered, but those are the expected growing pains. Couple of times a lack of hand strength came through, like the endzone fade to Reed he had wrestled out of his grasp. Gotta use those finger weights in the weight room, folks.
Pretty telling when you have a practice squad elevated player on the field late in the game instead of your "starter".
Could be that Dillon just isn't suited for our blocking scheme, but he just doesn't look productive for this offense.
Of all my preseason takes, the one I am most happy to have been wrong on was Dontayvion Wicks. He was hurt a lot this summer and just never really flashed, imo, but man, this guy just has IT.
This route was amazing. Lattimore was having a pretty good game and Wicks still got him in a blender for an easy completion.
Look at Wicks' release on the right side here. Taylor was shutting shit down all game, and Wicks just completely schools him on the LOS. I've literally seen Davante Adams make those same exact moves dozens of time. Just incredible stuff from the rookie.
yeah toure ain’t moving like that lol, i wanna see more wicks even when watson is back
All I’ll say, they should be scheming routes to Wicks moving forward. He is a much more polished wideout than Toure, even though I want to see him succeed. Wicks route running has been great so far.
Wicks has played 114 snaps and had 12 targets, to 77 and 8 for Toure. So you’ve already got your wish.
Early thoughts (not from re-watching All-22 or PFF scores):
Love got that dawg in him. Until I get to watch more replay/all-22 that's all I'll say for now.
The announcers were actually horrible. If you counted on them to educate you with what was going on during this game then you definitely missed a lot. The color commentator in particular just focused on random stuff during like every replay and missed what actually happened, especially:
Carr was toying with Campbell like a chew toy until Campbell went out with his injury. The last 2 or 3 plays of the Saints first touchdown drive were all Carr using his eyes to put Campbell exactly where he wanted to, opening a throwing lane and throwing a dart into open space. Underrated QB play, and exposing an ILB that has not played anywhere near his All Pro season since the injury last year. Campbell definitely could've been playing hurt that drive, but regardless we've got to see more out of this ILB group other than Quay being incredibly fast.
(not to be a downer) but we did win this game because the Saints kicker missed a 46 yard kick. If he makes that, we're spending today talking about how a Joe Berry-led defense needed to make just one clutch stop against a backup qaurterback-led Saints offense, and couldn't do it. A very clutch offensive game (thank you Love and MLF) and missed FG are covering up a incredibly anti-clutch defensive performance late in the fourth (emphasis added in edit since people are thinking I'm saying the D had a bad game, which I'm not.)
As banged up as our O line is, that's three games in a row of abysmal run blocking. Dillon and Taylor had no lanes all game. Caveat that the Saints D is incredible, but if the season ended today and I'm looking at the draft board, I'm putting Oline at or near the top of the list of needs. This isn't even mentioning the absurd amount of penalties on this position group, playing at home. Ugly game that they'll be anxious to put in the rear view.
NEED. WATSON. HEALTHY. Saints arguably are fielding the best secondary in the NFL, and it showed. It looked like MLF was the only reason we had WR's open at any point in the game because Doubs, Reed, and Toure were incapable of creating space on their own. In terms of injuries, unlike Aaron Jones or Bahk where their time as a Packer is almost up, Watson is young and should be here for awhile, so his hamstrings are really starting to worry me. That dude needs to be on the field.
Mostly agree. Just want to point out that if the Saints make their FG, we still have the ball with a minute and two timeouts, needing only a FG ourselves.
Does the offense move the ball? Does Carlson hold up on a pressure kick? Maybe!
Right, good point that we still could've won. I'm not sure if that would've changed the main takeaways I mentioned though (That our D couldn't make the clutch stop we needed, and that Love+MLF are very clutch).
Giving up 13 points isn't that bad, especially without Jaire to shut down O'lave. You should win if you hold the opponent to less than 2 TD.
So no, I would not be blaming the defense if they made the field goal. The defense really wasn't the main issue.
I agree with a lot of your takes but the one saying it was a very clutch offensive game and anti clutch defense is all wrong.
The defense only gave up 10 points and the only TD the saints scored, they were starting at midfield due to an offensive turnover. Saints only had 252 yards of total offense.
The first half was ugly because of penalties and mistakes, mostly on the offense and special teams but the Defense was steady and did what they needed to do pretty much all game.
Yea people need to relax on our Defense and remember that they gave us two immediate 3 and outs as soon as Jameis stepped in the game and got the offence the ball back immediately to get the comeback going. They could have easily called it in when we failed again in the saints end zone on a 4th down.
You misread me. I said "anti-clutch late in the fourth", not that the D had a bad game.
I need to re watch before making statements on the D for the whole game but obviously holding any team to 10 is a good game in one way or another.
they were still clutch in the fourth. They held the saints off to just field goal range and it was enough for the kicker to miss. On top of that, there was still enough time for us to kick our own field goal back. They had numerous stops in the 4th quarter alone, that's how we caught up after being behind three possessions.
Add in KC's roughing penalty on the 1st play and they essentially started the drive inside the Packers' 41.
The defense I'm torn on. They at least held them to a very long field goal and stopped them so we had time on the clock if the FG was good.
But, after shutting them down the entire 2nd half it's disappointing they let them drive down the field in a minute to get into FG range. Being unable to stop half ending/game ending drives is a continued theme with this D.
Obviously, nobody can be perfect all the time. The D balled out all game. Def don't win without their great performance.
Well, the last drive was virtually all (2 catches for 40 of the 47 yards) Olave against the Packers' 3rd string CB just called up from the practice squad. Plus even if he [Grupe] makes it the Packers still had 2 timeouts and had just completed consecutive drives of 82, 46, 80 and 80. Missing it ended the game. Making it wouldn't have.
Last point is the big one for me. Packers WRs were getting very little separation for most of the game. Even at the end, they were making catches despite lack of separation.
Yes, I am really starting to get worried about Watson. The best ability is availability, and I’m starting to worry he won’t be able to string games together. Wicks at the moment IMO is running the best routes, and they should definitely start to work him into the offense more.
At one point even when we were still down on points before the comeback, I muted the game, and was enjoying it more. Vilma was garbage, and wasn't really being impartial especially so his comments on the ref's calls and no-calls.
In terms of injuries, unlike Aaron Jones or Bahk where their time as a Packer is almost up
Damn I know this is probably true, but it hurts to see
As banged up as our O line is, that's three games in a row of abysmal run blocking. Dillon and Taylor had no lanes all game. Caveat that the Saints D is incredible, but if the season ended today and I'm looking at the draft board, I'm putting Oline at or near the top of the list of needs. This isn't even mentioning the absurd amount of penalties on this position group, playing at home. Ugly game that they'll be anxious to put in the rear view.
The disparity between our OTs and our iOL is kinda nuts. We're two tackles deep at OT, with Caleb Jones as a very interesting developmental guy. Meanwhile, we have one legitimately good player on the interior, with everyone else capping out as ok at best and terrible at worst.
Part of me wants Rhyan to get a chance given how bad the interior has been, but there's a good chance that he's dead last on the depth chart for a reason. Maybe Walker can bump inside once Bakh comes back? iOL has to be addressed next offseason regardless, especially since Runyan is a free agent.
I couldn't agree more with your point about the announcers. It seemed like they were talking about old stories and just trying to fill air time in the fourth quarter like it was a blowout when it was a one possession game?! Not sure exactly what was going on with that.
Some counter points to what you said:
Run blocking was abysmal, Dillon didn't do them any favors. In my opinion his running was equally to blame
Agreed that the last drive was pretty brutal from a defensive standpoint, but the other side of that is you have to give them massive props for only giving up 10 points all game. Even if the Saints make a kick at the end I think the defensive performance was still above average. I'll admit I did have the "oh shit here we go again" feeling during that last drive though.
The only impressive thing about the announcers is that they didn't mess up Corey Ballentine and Carrington Valentine names during calls.
Don’t agree on the run lanes Dillion straight up has no vision there were multiple times wide open holes and he didn’t read it correctly
Growing pains in the first half, but it really wasn't as bad as all the doom and gloomers out there were shouting. Tons of balls hitting receivers in the hands and they were all well defended with questionably tight coverage. If a few of those went the other way the game wouldn't have gotten so out of hand. Couple bad throws, but most of this is high pointing a foot higher, throwing the ball half a second earlier or the WR coming back to the ball another yard... All shit that should improve over time. Awesome that they never gave up and fought back on the offensive side.
Defensively a hell of a game - 10 points with the only TD on a short field. Held them to 0 points in the second half and kept this shit in reach. Really need to figure out the 2 minute defense though, almost blew it at the end and got lucky with a bad kick.
A comeback like that is awesome for confidence and proves they can win through some adversity.
Big win with all the injuries. Lets hope we can get a majority of these guys back for Thursday.
Wilson's throw looked timid, like he was afraid of overthrowing it. Which, I'd rather he one-hop it rather than sky it over Love's head, so all in all, it could've gone worse. Also happy Love's knees survived that slip/splits when he tried to salvage the play.
The coach needs to know what his players are capable of. If they cannot execute it shouldn't be called. The fact that it was messed up the way it was messed suggests it shouldn't even be in the play book. It was a horrible call. I do appreciate them going for it on 4th and 2, however, they really shouldn't call gimmicky nonsense. They are young and inexperienced enough without adding unnecessary complications, the coach should know that.
Love is a tremendous arm talent who looks comfortable out there. He’s playing without the four players I’d most want to take away from him if I were an opposing D. Can’t draw up a much more impressive start to his career imo
How many drops did we have yesterday? I think Reed had at least 4 (including 2 dropped TDs), Toure had at least 2-3, and Heath had 1 as well. When you factor those in, as well as the miscommunications (Taylor running the wrong route & the busted goal line smash concept with Wicks/Reed) it's no wonder Love's completion percentage is "only" 53%
Really liked how Love settled down in the 4th quarter yesterday—he threw some beautiful balls (a few of which were, again, dropped), stayed poised in the pocket, and made plays with his legs whenever our receivers were getting blanketed. Can't wait for him to get his best players back
Would like to see more quick game, WR screens, bootlegs, etc. to help Love get in rhythm and to get our receivers involved early with some easier stuff
“Drops” are hugely subjective. Even services paid to catalogue them will produce numbers that vary significantly. So I’m not sure how many balls qualify as “drops,” but there were close to 10 balls that were good throws that could reasonably have been caught and weren’t.
I think this encapsulates some of the frustrations with AJ Dillon that we've seen in this sub. After receiving the ball AJ cuts right into the DE that lost containment on the outside.
Pic 1: DE clearly chooses his hole right off the snap
Pic 2: AJ has not made his decision yet
Pic 3: AJ makes the wrong choice (notice the lean/momentum), loses 2-3yds
Clear as day when watching in real time. Happens around 6:00 in the 3rd quarter. Hopefully they continue working on some of these issues with him. I don't mean to stack hate, just something I noticed while watching the replay of Sunday's game.
I highlighted that play in my mind as well, and it kind of encapsulates why Dillon seems ill fit for the current interation of our offense.
It just seems like he is so used to contact that he refuses to run to green grass. That play was a glaring example of where he seems like he wants to initiate contact at all times.
It's like he has a defender magnet in his pads.
The interception wasn’t even that bad. It was an arm punt on third and long, when we’re down 17. Maybe a bit of an overthrow. But not the end of the world.
He was pressing, made a bad decision, and calling it an arm punt doesn’t change that. Honestly the ball was what 20-30 yards downfield? A 20-30 yard punt is atrocious it wasn’t a nothing play like you’re implying. And as soon as he released that ball had no chance because of the coverage not just because it’s an overthrow.
I gave Jordan his flowers for the fourth quarter- but that was the worst play he’s made in three weeks by far and it’s not crazy to say it. Wildly promising performance by Love anyway regardless.
Gave him his flowers, eh? Found O'Sullivan's burner.
I agree, it was a bad decision. Looking for a dagger on third and long is the kind of hero-ball Rodgers would revert to whenever he got frustrated.
That it ended-up similar to a punt is happenstance, not a calculated (and therefore creditable) part of the decision.
Yeah I felt like the int was just love being frustrated that they had missed chances and wanting to take a bit more risk on 3rd down
Gotta hit Doubs with more targets earlier in games, let the kid eat.
The offense has moved the ball well every game without Jones and Watson for majority of the snaps. This young offense has so much potential man
upon further review. the game really hit a turning point when reed went all waterboy on the saints Gatorade table.
It is encouraging that they were able to pull out the win even with all the miscues and penalties. To be expected with all the injury outages, but that obviously needs to be better against better competition.
Situational play calling and execution was just good enough at the end to get the job done. 2nd half felt like the offense managed to move the ball consistently, but extracting points from the drives felt like pulling teeth. I don't really like all of the goal line fades in the red zone. Hopefully this team finds an identity as the season goes on and they find a more consistent option for short yardage situations.
Watching MLF take coaching to a new level this season is a thing of beauty.
Him going for two on the Jlo TD was such a ballsy move and I loved every second of it.
It was 100% the right move. According to analytics its actually less risky than kicking the PAT
I just like it from the stance of putting the young offence in those positions. Get them use to those situations.
Questions 3 weeks into the season
Would we be better off with Gary and LVN on the field at the same time rather than Preston and Gary?
Would we be better off throwing Rhyan in to replace Newman?
Dillon seems to be failing in this offense. But are Taylor and Wilson any better?
Taylor is absolutely better and should be RB2. Dillon can still do the 3rd and short and eat in December.
There seemed to be a lot of big plays/great throws that were either dropped or broken up by a DB.
I was able to ignore Love's missed throws over the first two weeks, but now it's starting to feel like his accuracy on deep throws really is an issue. Anyone else feeling that?
Also chucking slightly underthrown 50yd throws into triple coverage needs to end now. What did Love have, 3 of those yesterday?
We scored on every drive we didn't commit an offensive penalty yesterday except one.. and it was an 82 yard drive that should have been an easy fourth down conversion to Patrick Taylor.
We truly were our own worst enemy.
I like the trick plays. MLF isn’t afraid to mix things up.
AJ Dillon needs to bend his damn knees and get low when he runs. He’s huge but he’s so straight up and down it doesn’t even matter. It’s frustrating watching cuz you know the coaches tell him, and why he got benched for Patrick Taylor. It’s time to give Kylin Hill a call. He got kicked off the team last year for saying he should be RB2. Turned out he was right.
According to Googling, he is a street FA!
Yes he is I doubt they do it tho especially with Emmanuel Wilson. Wish Wilson was a better pass catcher(maybe he is wouldn’t know)
dillon needs to run towards the green instead of trying to bounce off his own linemen
Although Doubs has been the number 1 wide receiver he has propensity to never gain separation as a wide receiver, he makes a lot of contested catches. Solid player though
Lafleur needs to give Love more easier QB reads. Make the Packers offense like 2018 Utah State more up tempo from the beginning of the game don't always have to run the ball on 1st and 10. His completion percentage is a concern right now. Need to start hitting wide open guys like Musgrave should have at least 2 or 3 TDs this season, you can't not overthrow guys like that consistently.
Love is so confusing to me. His accuracy and efficiency has been so poor to me. He just doesn’t dot the passes or put it in the position he should. Even the td to Doubs, was that a great throw or was that a lucky poor throw, and if it was a great throw and placement why can’t he do that with some sort of regularity. He also never seems to really step into a throw ad just deliver a fast ball.
With that said, then I watch like Picket and Jimmy G last night and it’s so clear that love is way more special then guys like that. They made better throws with more regularity but they just didn’t have ‘it’ which love, I believe, clearly does. Idk, I believe in love, and that fourth was a man who was willing his team back. After that miscue with Taylor in the fourth, I was really down on love. In most circumstances that a player shrivels after that, but love didn’t.
I’m excited to see him improve and grow.
His accuracy and placement could use a little work and we're still developing timing and getting on the same option page as receivers but arguably being cool under pressure and making the right reads is more important for a QB than pinpoint accuracy. Love so far has been showing he's capable of that. There's still plenty of room to develop other parts of his game.
Yeah, he had a few balls behind the receiver where they either made a great catch (mostly Musgrave), or were PBUs by the DB. I think a lot of it is due to his anticipation and therefore a timing issue, not a true accuracy problem.
I've had similar thoughts about Love's accuracy a few times this year. I don't know if this is copium, but the my obvious response is Aaron Rodgers' accuracy is unreal, and I'm/we're spoiled. Love is missing a few throws short and medium, but he's only off by a few inches. Most are catchable but they'd he automatic if Love placed the ball a foot more outside. And even then, is that an accuracy issue or wideouts being slightly behind or ahead where they're expected to be?
I don’t think you’re evaluating Love the same as you are other QBs. Love threw 30+ throws yesterday that were literally perfect. You’re somehow knocking him for one (that TD throw to Doubs was literally perfect) and also knocking him for a terrible route by Taylor. Meanwhile Jimmy G is throwing to Davante Adams and his #4 WR has more experience than our entire receiving corps and he threw 3 terrible interceptions and you somehow think he was more accurate.
You're used to one of the most accurate passers in the history of the NFL. This is also a bit of rose colored glasses because you remember all the time Rodgers hit on those long passes, but he was overthrowing a lot of those as well. Love is young and still re-adjusting to actual game play. The adrenaline of being in a real game is a lot different than practice with the red jersey.
From the efficiency side - lots of balls hit receivers in the hands. If 4 of those were caught instead of broken up he's a 60% completion instead of 50%. Their DBs were playing lights out with a lot of break ups that could have been PI in any other game. I wouldn't be as worried about this - this is the growing pains everyone has been talking about all year.
It seems like he throws some ducks and overthrows at first but when he gets into a rhythm it's all lasers. Inconsistent accuracy is normal with young qbs, and if he can improve that he's already a pretty complete qb.
Agreed. I just want to see him connect on that Musgraves down the middle yesterday. Feel like he’s missed that throw 2-3 times this year already. That’s a td.
Yeah he definitely needs to work on his deep ball, if he can start connecting on those our offense will start feasting
Love is throwing balls where recievers can catch them. THey may not be perfect, absolute dimes on the dot balls, but they are within the catching range. Our WRs gotta go up and fight and grab those balls.
Thats what Doubs did on the TD, and what Reed did on that long diving catch. We need more of that. And more Wicks too, guy is so sure handed.
I want to keep bringing it up because it’s been so noticeable to me but I don’t see or hear anyone bringing it up:
When Love throws a bomb he always throws it short. The receiver has to come back to the ball. The defender makes contact with the receiver, and it’s pass interference. Every time. Happened in the fourth yesterday, happened a couple times against the falcons, and at least once during the Bears.
Overall he’s been okay. Interested to see him with healthy players.
The INT he threw was an overthrow wasnt it? Could be an err on the short side mentality to protect the ball?
He overthrew Musgrave on a seam in this game and Doubs on a crosser? out route? on 3rd down of our last possession in Atlanta. He does seem to underthrow more often than not though, but I also seem to remember the coaches had a point of emphasis for him to put more air under his deep throws and maybe he's still figuring that out?
he's missed long and short. the short ones have turned into PI multiple times now.
Love has exceeded all expectations but this toxic positivity on the sub reminds me of "leggy boi" and "quadzilla". He's done fine but let's pump the breaks until we see him show he can complete a deep pass. Right now he's a mobile above average game manager and the Rodgers comparisons are unfair and inaccurate. Rodgers was a fucking assassin from the get go and you could tell he was already better than late career favre.
That being said love had ice in his veins and it was a breath of fresh air not seeing qb1 pouting on the sidelines and taking that shit in to his own hands.
Gary was a beast but once again the d folded like a house of cards when the game was on the line. They were bailed out by a missed field goal. Kenny clark makes a lot of money to dissappear game in and game out after his random 1st quarter splash play but thankfully quay and Gary are monsters and savage is in a contract year so he's actually trying to tackle.
I understand Nixon was all pro last year but he keeps putting the offense in worst field position with his returns.
Kudos to Reed for sticking with it after some pretty bad drops. He's a nice young player.
Musgrave looks nice. Love the ability to get 3 or 4 yards on command. This compliments a young qb as a great safety blanket.
Dillon gets a lot of shit...but I don't put yesterday on him. The line was getting dominated and they kept calling runs to the edge out of the shotgun. He may not be a world beater but calling Aaron Jones plays for him doesn't help anyone.
"Toxic positivity"
Literally fuck off into outer space. There's so much stupid negativity everywhere on the internet why does our own fan base get upset when we get hyped over wins???
I prefer a realistic view point. Jordan. Love is a 3 game nfl starter whose played great in some areas, poor in others, and unproven in others. This is a thread about xs and os...there are plenty of Fandom threads to write "he is man". But the reality is he still hasn't hit a wideout in stride over 30 yards in the air...might have scored on the first drive if he didn't miss an easy throw to a wide open te with a clean pocket. Its ok...it happens but A hall of fame qb doesn't miss that throw...yet he's been annointed by this fickle fan base who will be calling for his benching when he has an inevitable stinker.
97 posts about "he is him" amd "thats my quarterback" to karma farm is the definition of toxic positivity.
It's low effort bullshit. Looking forward to the dog in the love jersey today watching "their quarterback" as I haven't seen that one yet.
"A hall of fame QB doesn't miss that throw"
This is exactly what I mean. He's in his third start throwing to guys with less than 500 career yards with backup OL and you are sitting here talking about how he's no Hall of Famer.
Just go away with the negative to be negative shit. What about all the drops? Why not mention all the great throws he's perfectly slotted only to be dropped? Why not mention the obvious miscommunication plays like Taylor had that has hurt him as well? Because you are, for some reason, determined to be negative about Love. You aren't unique in this aspect there's an oddly large number of our fan base that is desperate to be overly critical of him.
It's literally his third start and you are complaining he's not a hall of famer. Fucking hell this fan base is spoiled beyond belief.
He isn't a hall of famer...tell the rest of this sub that. I never said he couldn't be one.
Here is how I started my original post
"Love has exceeded all expectations"
"That being said love had ice in his veins and it was a breath of fresh air not seeing qb1 pouting on the sidelines and taking that shit in to his own hands."
Super fucking negative champ. Are you just pissed cause you're one of those clowns who bought jk scott and dillon jerseys after letting this sub convince you they were good?
This is an xs and os thread where we talk objetively about play.Go to one of thr 97 threads blowing Jordan love on here if you want a circle jerk.
Literally no one has seriously called him a hall of famer, you are mad that a fanbase is saying love is "Him" after a fun win. That's just being pissy to be pissy.
Now I know you are just having a meltdown by bringing up random players and putting words in my mouth.
Go outside, or better yet just go anywhere but here.
Go all over reddit " we got our 3rd in a row" etc.
And I bring those players up because this sub was anointing both of them the second coming at their positions after 1 good game.
And when it comes to putting words in people's mouths...you literally made up a fantasy where I was trashing Love even though I was complimentary of him as well.
Show Me a video where love throws a deep pass on target in the last 3 games...and I'll shut up about it. It's not being a doomer to point out that he showed both good and bad things on tape in an xs and os forum.
"I haven't seen it anywhere"
https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/16rsqh1/did_we_just_witness_the_birth_of_a_legend/
Care to revisit the discussion? Not seeing all the "He is him" and hall of fame inductions anymore.
Maybe my...measured take... was accurate and not just "complaining to complain"
I cannot adequately explain just how monumentally pathetic and empty your life is to have saved a comment this mundane.
Seriously, go the fuck outside you are the definition of a pathetic redditor.
Didn't even say anything like what you claim here and you STILL replied half a month later you sad sad fuck
He wasn't perfect but those passes just ripped out of his hand. You knew it was a once and a lifetime cannon when the guy after Brett was throwing a better ball.
There was a segment of the fan base that was going to hate Rodgers no matter what but you were in absolute denial if you didn't appreciate what was going to happen.
I like love and think he's done very well I'm just waiting for that moment with him still. I don't even care if he has a shitty game... I'm not hung up on his completion percentage...or some of the miscommunications or any od that.
I just want to see a ball over 30 yards in the air where I say "holy shit that guy is a beast". They have all been underthrown and if there was 1 critique about love even through camp this year it was his deep ball.
Leggy boi = people acting like Jeff Janis was going to turn into wes welker.
Love has looked better than expected. He is not being as accurate as he will once he's been the starter for more than 10 games, and his receivers will see a similar competency increase after half a season against pros at game speed.
Really interesting how often we threw the ball. 44 attempts by Love in a low scoring game is an odd game plan.
I realize our OL injures and RB1 injuries add but yikes. Curious to see what else we can do with Dillion because he is not starter material at this point.
I mean this seriously. When is it time to start have the MVP conversation about Love? That was one of the best if not best Packer comebacks EVER. I know for some reason we don’t get overboard on the hype of Love but at this point we are underrating him based on his performance.
Another thing peep that doubs catch on the sideline. Dude is going all out, snaps his head toward the sideline and then tracks the ball in. Insanely high level play from him.
I love this team so much. Go pack go.
Love is absolutely top 5 right now. Only guys I’d put over him are Tua, Kirk, and Mahomes so far. Even with those guys I’d say Tua is the only one I genuinely think deserves it right now, because Kirk has been awesome in losses and Mahomes by his standards has just been okay. I think if Love puts together another game or two where he looks like he did in the 4th yesterday, then he’s in the running
Realistically, if someone put out a top 10 candidates for MVP right now, Jordan Love has to be on it, right?
yes easily. I would say top 5 lock too. QB performance hasnt been super stellar across the league so far.
Tua, Mahomes, Parsons, Watt, McCaffrey, Hill have him best to me but arguments can be made
Pump the breaks on the MVP talk. Are you kidding?
No
The guy has been playing good for his first year starting and I don’t want be too negative, but a MVP completes more then 53% of his passes. He is literally 2nd worse in NFL when it come to completion percentage and your talking MVP.
someone posted this and I think its apt. Dude is a .205 hitter right now but with a real high slug percentage.
Jordan does a ton of anticipation throws and when you do that with rookie receivers a lot of them can look to be poorly thrown balls because the receiver isnt where they should be. Not saying Love is super accurate at this point but hes a lot more accurate than the stats show.
Case in point that Musgrave throw. If you look at the film, you can see Musgrave not continuing the route along the hash and he slows down and swerves. If he continued straight that ball likely is on the money.
I saw LVN was active for the game but didn't notice him on the field. Does anyone know if he actually played and for how many snaps?
Think I'm over 100x watching the Love/Doubs TD on 1/2 speed
First and foremost.... Let's Fucking Go!! What a comeback!
Lovie boy's piss was boiling in the 4th, holy cow. I am really liking what he does with the mid range tosses. Seems to have a knack for getting some accurate passes to the receivers in that range. Still some work with the young core to get on the same page on the longer looks. A couple passes Love will throw middle and the receiver is thinking post (and vice versa). It's an open look just not thinking the same spot.
Jones missing hurts. No way around it. He is clearly our most dangerous weapon on offense and the backups don't hold much of a candle to him. Dillion has been struggling but I feel like he did a little better that game. To me, gotta keep him going north and south. He just doesn't have the explosive quickness or speed to go wide. Keep him pushing forward and let those quads do some work. Taylor seemed to get more comfortable later in the game and showed a little pizzaz.
Defense! Defense! That line was unreal. Gary with 3 sacks on limited snaps. Clark was fairly consistently bottling things up in the middle. I will recognize that maybe we should start talking about Quay as a top ILB in the league. He is making plays every single drive. Secondary scares me a little. Olave was getting some decent looks all game and Thomas started to pick up late in the game. I do think the safeties played pretty well though. Savage is kind of fun to watch in open field tackles because he straight up flies.
Special teams I am liking the kickers so far. The fielding scares me a little on both sides. Shaheed is a hell of a return guy but there were quite a few holes for him to go through. Didn't happen every punt and they did do a good job covering up most of it, just those TDs can really hurt in close games. On the other side, I don't think our return game scares too many teams yet.
It will be a different kind of year (as expected) but seems like it will be a fun one!
Go Pack Go!
Jordan Love still looks legit. Stats show only a 50% completion rate, but he was fitting throws into tight, tight coverage, and there were numerous "you should have caught that" drops, even if they were contested. That's natural given how young our guys are. And credit to the Saints secondary– that was as tight of coverage as I ever remember seeing. Other than the two biffed deep shots (Musgrave overthrow and the desperation heave for the interception), it was another strong sign that Love is our guy going forward. If he winds up being a top tier QB, this comeback is a contender for the moment he became the guy.
The offensive play calling was solid across the board yesterday. The execution on some of they plays could have been better, but the concepts were solid. And that ballsy 2 point all at the end of the game worked out! If the Dolphins weren't putting the Broncos in an epic chokehold and taking up the entire NFL sphere, that decision and the comeback itself would have gotten a lot more notoriety.
Our pass rush was feeling it yesterday, though that also results from the Saints having poor pass protection in general. It's nice to see us getting legit pressure and not giving up QB draws left and right. Plus it's refreshing to see us stuff the run game for a week. The defense almost cost us the game at the very end, but despite some inexcusably large gaps in coverage at a few key points, they played pretty well yesterday. The Saints only scored 10 on our defense, which should be a win 10/10 times.
Speaking of the rushing attack.... yikes. At a casual glance, it felt to me like Dillon was doing better because I remember a few runs where he plowed right through the middle for 5+ yards, carrying Saints players on his way. But the I look at the stats sheet, and man, our run game was nonexistent outside of a few Love scrambles. Dillon averaged 3 YPC (11 for 33), and Taylor/Wilson only got a couple of carries each at 2.4 YPC. Even without Jones and with multiple offensive line injuries, that's just not good enough. The blame falls on the RBs and the line given how consistently they're underperforming, no matter who has been out there since Jones went out. Our offense could not get a rhythm going to save their lives until the fourth quarter.
The other thing that really screwed us besides injuries and lack of rushing game: penalties. That was rough. Thank god they cleaned it up near the end, because penalties killed multiple drives for us.
Oh, and special teams pulled a special teams. The coverage stacked up on top of each other, and shocker, that meant open lanes for the punt return. Hopefully that was just a one-off that Bisaccia can correct.
The interception was actually a good ball. Doubs got hung up and arguably interfered with. If he doesn’t, he’s at least got a chance to make the catch in front of the safety. It’s a risky ball into double coverage, but it’s a decision you don’t mind on third and long and really a very good ball.
Oline will hopefully keep maturing, hard to get going on offense when every other play has a penalty… though ignoring the penalty’s they played really good.
Run game bad. Dillon had a few good pounding runs in the start there and then it just disappeared. Wilson and Taylor were no better…. Miss Jones :(
Receivers did good, Musgrave is looking more and more exciting every game. Doubs has crazy body control, need to target him more and scheme him open more. Other dudes looked fine.
Love was good, deep ball could use work. Poised comeback though. Some uglier plays I don’t think were really his fault.
Defense was exposed and Carr was going to pick us apart if he didn’t leave early. Still played well overall.
Would like to see more tight end motion plays for Luke Musgrave. Imo he is more dynamic of a playmaker than Laporta is with the Lions.
Looks like Brenton Cox actually got 1 snap on defense. Anybody know when/how we used him?
Jordan Love is getting a ton of media and eye balls and deservedly so. But what has been going under the radar is the play that we are generating from the trenches on both sides of the ball.
Offensively, we seem to have been able to adjust to early season injury woes with all of the investment that was put in on drafting and developing talent across the board. Zach Tom, JR jr, Meyers, and Walker have really paid dividends in being able to leverage as much of our young talent on offense by quelling a pretty damn good rush from New Orleans.
Defensively is something else! It is easy to praise the top talents of the Clark and Gary, but, in my opinion, the catalyst for such productivity has been our ability to rotate high level talent and alleviate our playmakers to make plays. Kenny Clark was in a one man fist fight for the first few years in the league--now that leash is off and he is showing what he does. Gary is Gary.
If you look at the San Francisco rebuild that took them to perennial contenders in the matter of a couple offseasons (while whiffing on two top 5 draft picks no less), John Lynch made it clear that the rebuild would need to be trenches out on both sides of the ball. Much credit goes to the front office for emulating this by investing much of our upgrades to this area of the roster.
The o-line performed really well, at least in pass protection, yesterday down their best 2 players. Curious on the stats for how many WR drops were registered. Love looks legit--his pocket presence and poise look very good. I think the Pack can win this weak division
I understand we are a young team but (and I can't believe I'm saying this) if we're going to make a deep run this postseason, we're going to have to clean up the penalties...
Reading through a ton of the comments... there are several pokes at Love's stats. But hey - a W is a W (and Rodgers "won ugly" a bunch the past three seasons with us).
Half the penalties, overthrows and drops and we win by 14.
The only reason Musgrave doesn't have 4 TD by now is Love not managing to throw accurately enough. If he figures it out, I like our chances to be at the top of the division.
This sounds like an insane statement considering how hurt the team is, but tell me I am wrong.
Want to point out again those last two game winning drives. 80 yards at least for both I think. Juked Davis out of his shoes for the first score, that's a beast of a LB hell of a take by JL. Doubs is 100% the redzone go to guy, him and Love have a fantastic connection on those fades. Couple of drops and what not on those drives but Love didn't get angry or chew anybody out he just kept firing fucking LOVE seeing that. Really think this offense could take off when Jones comes back.
To anyone complaining about the completion percentage let me remind you literally all of his targets are second year or younger guys. It's three games in and he's throwing to guys even younger than him, it's going to take some time to get the efficiency down. The fact that people are even complaining about this despite his TD/INT ratio and poise shows just how ABSURDLY spoiled this fanbase is in terms of QB play. Shame on anyone who wants to downplay the young guys start to the season. He's missing half of his line(the good half) and his most explosive WR, the fact he's playing anything close to this well is a fantastic sign.
This might be KCs best year. Kenny looks in great shape and has been absolutely dominating so far.
Pay Gary ASAP. Dude just abused one of the better tackles in Ram, and when he went to the other side was just smoking that backup. He's going to get more expensive every single week.