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Side Note: Anti-military ≠ Anti-American
I’m pretty sure most people are talking about the specific military of the country they live in when they say they’re anti-military
You ever clarify? Most I have met are against any offensive military
Yeah here its the United States
I don't like the military service in my country because it's mendatory
Very succinct answer
Guerilla warfare is hard to win against
Stolen is a bit of a stretch, conquest has been the law of human nature for millennia, not conquering neighboring nations is a relatively recent standard.
People hate the idea of working for an institution they see as morally corrupt or that takes priority over other things they want more (usually healthcare/education).
I’m an active duty US marine and I love my job. The free healthcare is great and I can go back to school whenever I want, plus the VA home loan will help me with my first house in a year or two when I’m ready to buy.
That being said, I don’t think people who don’t want to be in the military should be. They suck the morale straight out of any unit they’re in. Main reason I oppose any sort of draft.
That being said, I don’t think people who don’t want to be in the military should be. They suck the morale straight out of any unit they’re in. Main reason I oppose any sort of draft.
I think that's true no matter the profession, people who hate their job aren't fun or efficient to work with.
The military has always been a solid career path that teaches valuable skills that will benefit people in civilian life. I was only in JROTC in high school but the USMC leadership principles and good old JJ DID TIE BUCKLE have served me (and the folks under me at work) extremely well!
I think some of the resentment comes from the fact that everything you listed are things that people shouldn't have to enter the military for. Health care, education, and a viable living standard are things that a healthy country should just have, you know? And a happy, healthy, grateful population will in turn be more likely to enthusiastically volunteer to serve their country.
That's the thing of it tho. Recruiting number would definitely go down if anything. A lot People join now because they come from a poor environment and feel like it's the best option. It's predatory
Yeah that's how it works now. But when a country gives to its people, its people give back. There will always be people who are willing to enlist out of love of their country, it's a big country. If even 1% enlisted voluntarily that would be too many soldiers, sailors, and airpeople to accept and people would be turned away.
Moreover, an educated and cared-for population is a more politically engaged and politically active population. A populace that is engaged has a far stronger say in foreign policy and where and when those soldiers, sailors, and airpeople are deployed.
Recruiting numbers wouldn’t go down if the military didn’t fight wars for private profit and the country in general took care of its citizens. We have the strongest military on the planet, and have had the strongest military since the 40s. That’s been done on a volunteer force. It’s only now, when living standards continue to degrade and we can’t ignore the real reasons why we go to war, that recruitment is struggling.
The military has always had benefits but I don’t think that’s why the bulk of recruits have traditionally volunteered. People use to really believe in the righteousness of the thing, and in the inherent goodness of the country. But those ideas are dying fast now.
The entire system of it preys on getting people in that don't want to be in. Normally people from lower income environments or confused on what to do with life
And there's a reason advertising and recruitment targets teens. The younger you are, the less likely you are to perceive the moral implications and the more likely you are to submit to authority.
That is because people who live great lives have always had a habit at doing so at someone else's expense.
It’s one of the reasons why the US military is so effective.
You shouldn’t be required to join the military in order to get a house, healthcare, and education. Most civilised countries provide these to their citizens by default.
At least you recognize it’s a job and not volunteer work or some courageous act of service.
Semper Fi. I'm a millennial, and I got out honorably in 2014. I'm glad to hear that things changed. I'm kind of in the fence about my experience. Mostly because the crappy stuff that happened to me is pretty rare, but it really fucked me up. I wouldn't recommend anyone join the Marines, but I also don't recommend against joining, if that makes sense. I'm glad you're having a good experience ☺️
Selling your body to oppress other nations isn't for everyone
You should open your eyes a little more to see who the oppressors are. When I was in Afghan(2010) I saw a woman get stoned to death because her husband said that she committed adultery. This was normal in the part of the country I was in because it was Taliban controlled. Also women couldn’t show any body parts and had to be escorted by a man in public. However in most other parts of the country women were allowed to attend school past 13, show their face, and have a job. Now Taliban controls the entire country again and women lost all their freedoms.
killing people is not cool
I'd rather not be a murderer
I'm in the military and I've never killed anybody.
I've helped save two people's lives though. One going through a mental health episode and another when she collapsed in the hallway (that one was scary).
I know a group that was on a routine turn and burn and came across a car accident on a rural road. They performed basic first aid (none of them medics) and called/waited for EMS. The mother died but the daughter survived. All received the soldiers medal for it. That was a helluva story.
I've served on fire fighting teams, pandemic teams, and advocated for health and wellness for our military. And have never directly killed anybody.
Of course not everyone in the military is in active combat, the majority aren't. But everyone is supporting the ability of the people who do, to do so. It's working within a system that contributes to those acts. I'm not one to judge another individual for that personally, but I hope you can understand that even supporting the military in a non-combat role can be a moral choice as well.
Yeah note how he said he never DIRECTLY killed anyone. Working for people who actively kill others isn't much better
Good news is you could have done all those good things without being in the military if we just funded it.
You’re in the military but you don’t know what the military does, curious
We are trained to kill people or support people that kill people. Also trained to do a lot of other things. Just read a Wikipedia page.
My ex was briefly in the military (before we met) and said he couldn’t get around the fact that a lot of his fellow soldiers were fucking psychos who were itching to “red mist” people.
The majority of the people I know who were ROTC or involved the military are like this. Psychos who just want to kill people. Guys who have never fit in, and think that joining the military will make people respect them and bow down to them. Obviously not the every person I know involved in the military is like this, but the vast majority I have met/known around my age fit this description.
type of people who played lots of war games and unironically think that's how war actually works
I wonder how many of those people have played ARMA.
Walking for a quarter of an hour and getting shot dead by an enemy sniper you never saw.
They've probably seen those faked war clips created with ARMA and reposted them online thinking they were real
honestly the most I see only have a problem with the institution and not the individuals in it. I haven't got alot of hate for enlisting but I definitely do see alot of hate for the institution.
you know you just sound like a fed here right?
Yes interesting how OP only mentions the “perks” of the military that helps convince people 18 year olds to enrol.
You beat me to it lol
Likely is one
War crimes bro. We hate war crimes. The US military (and its allies) have committed war crimes for decades (centuries really) and face zero consequences for it. No amount of free college or money can make me complicit in that shit.
Also don't like the idea of being government property and how recruiters pray on the poor.
This, absolutely. I hate all the crimes the U.S. military has done but I can’t knee jerk hate every person who enlists. So many are just poor kids who need a steady paycheck and the promise of paid education with little better options on the table for them.
❗❗
War crimes are a pretty recent invention, but even so pretty much every country who has fought a war has committed war crimes since they were invented. War sucks, but if your country is bad at fighting or bad at making friends who can fight for you you’re going to be subjugated and get no voice. War being a reality so long as there are scarce resources and differing opinion on how they should be distributed and who they should be distributed to, it’s nice that soldiers decided to make any rules at all regarding how wars should be fought.
Why would we fight for a country that’s actively making the lives for our generation worse? That why the government is in turmoil right now and doing all this bs with selective service and talks of a draft. The current population of the army will enviably retire and no one with two brain cells to rub together will sign themselves up; for the simply reason of “hell I don’t even like this government, why on earth would I die for it???”
Military will teach you the skills you need to survive in war and thrive in peace– in our turbulent times that can’t be bad.
Well, for one ask Okinawans For two, ask Afghanistan https://youtu.be/UcWs4TFSjrY?si=HIuD9lZdm78Eo8mL
Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba, Nicaragua
Just naming a few, I was looking for the interview with a CIA official lgloating about overthrowing south American govs, but it is not showing up in YouTube.
They def bleached it from the internet. Same with that Biden video from a while back
So, if you guys don't mind some input from someone who is part Okinawan. It's really not as black and white as it used to be. There is still some resentment and anger over what happened during WW2, especially in some of the older population who may have experienced/heard about it more firsthand. There are also a lot of people who have concerns over the size of Kadena AFB, and some of the environmental impacts it has had. That's understandable and justified.
But there's also different priorities now. Japan is facing more aggression from Russia, China, and North Korea. If it wasn't enough hearing about this on the news, North Korea launched a satellite that prompted an emergency alert in Okinawa a month ago. Nothing really happened but that's obviously not the last we'll see. It's sparked some discussion about an actual emergency scenario, Japan's Self Defense Forces (the military) have some stuff that's needed for defense, but it's not enough and clearance to do more is going to take a while because there's still isolated criticism with even having the SDF. So being realistic the SDF may not have what is needed when it's needed. The only other military power in Japan that has the type of power needed for that is the US, like it or not. It's not bad either, relations between most locals and the military have been somewhat amicable/improving during recent years.
Sorry this is long. Point is the US military in Okinawa right now is beneficial for both sides, and it's not like how it was during WW2/immediately afterwards. The best thing for everybody right now is working to remember our past, while looking toward the future. And I think we're doing alright with that right now.
On the topic of our history, today/yesterday is Irei no hi (Okinawa Memorial Day). It's not well-known outside of Okinawa, but we use it to remember who we've lost with a moment of silence.
Nah of course, there's a lot of angles in the issue especially seeing the South China Sea situation.
The United States doesn't even take care of their own military despite heeing and hawing about "respecting vets."
You are statistically more likely to kys than to die in combat if you become a soldier, according to the Pentagon.
My own mom died because of the VAs inaction, and I'm not unique when I say that. Soldiers come home broken and get abandoned by their own country when shit hits the fan.
Hard to enjoy that free college when having a full mental break
“If I go kill people overseas with my new friends I don’t go into massive college debt. Why would anyone hate this system?”
Then they say the military isn’t full of sociopaths
I do not want to risk my health and life.
you’re on reddit
Jesus dude read the room
I wonder why a government ran program SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO BREAK YOU AND REBUILD YOU INTO A OBEDIENT ROBOT KILLING MACHINE would ever have its share of naysayers. 🤔🙄🤦
"Free" college. Just risk your life! It's that easy!
It's pretty simple, just like how the police are used domestically to enforce unjust laws, protect capital, and keep the masses in line; the US militia used to enforce US imperialism, American dominance, exploit the third world, and to maintain the status quo by crushing any opposition to capitalism.
Yes nations have a right to defend themselves but when was the last time our military was used defensively?
I say this as a criticism of the institution, even though the military as an institution is regressive, some of the most progressive people I've met served, one of them in Guantanamo Bay no less.
The Gulf War was protecting neighboring minor countries from excessive violence for the sake of money. That was defensive. We entered somalia albeit disastrously to end a gang war that was causing a historic starvation. We intervened in Yugoslavia to stop rampant war crimes and contain the situation. We also got involved in korea to protect south korea from an unprovoked invasion.
I've got family members who've served and I've seen the kind of damage it can do to people who enlist, accidental or otherwise. Lied to by recruiters with the intent of inflating numbers, the willful neglect of mental and physical health by higher ups, the amount of long-term health issues that could come from equipment that isn't even properly made, the fact that these only seem to get acknowledged by the VA after a major lawsuit, etc.
And that's not even getting into the amount of people that specifically join for the mere chance of being able to kill somebody without going to jail for it, which is both extremely fucked up on its own and detached from reality in too many ways.
It's a big part of why I'm against the idea of a national military service for the US, the lawmakers that preach it want a short term solution while wanting to do NONE of the work or planning necessary to keep the inevitable consequences from exploding into something that they'll just spend an extended period actively ignoring.
Can you leave at any time? To my knowledge you can’t and your stuck until your contracts up so your basically just selling yourself to the government and that doesn’t sit right with me. Also the military wastes a lot of money they overpay for basically everything and take to much of the budget that could be better used elsewhere like in healthcare, education, infrastructure, or basically anything else.
Rah
WHAT THE FUCK IS A KILOMETER?!!!!!!!!
🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Because the military sucks
as a soldier you have one job: kill
and no matter how you try to excuse your actions with topics like patriotism, "protecting" your country. in the end its just a job that pays you to kill people. for jobs like cops and stuff although it still is bad its still differen.t you have law on your side if you dont wanna kill someone you can reject the orders of your officer but in military if your commanders orders you to kill a kid and bomb civilians you gotta do all of these things or you will be called a "traitor of your nation" and get fired, possibly even get sent to jail. i think its pretty self explanatory especially if you are a soldier of a strong country the only reason they want more soldiers is to invade other countries whenever they are in need of resources
Maybe people dont like their tax dollars spent on warcrimials murdering brown kids and securing the bag for capitalists.
You have no reason for existing and are keeping the deathmachine running.
Remember Aaron Bushnell.
It’s very much not for everybody. I think most people would hate doing that job personally. That doesn’t make it bad to do if it’s the right thing for you, though.
Least obvious US military propaganda:
I’m not anti-military in general, I’m anti meddling in the affairs of other countries just so we can gain more of a foothold in the world power. I’m also anti using war to make a profit.
I think militaries primary use should be defense one’s own land from intruders/ maybe getting involved if an ally is getting bullied by a larger world power (that depends greatly on the situation). Our military is primarily about doing the things I don’t like
Fed spotted (/s)
Seriously though, why would I die to defend a country that can’t even defend my own human rights they claim to support? Oh right, its because queer people aren’t considered human, so I don’t have human rights. Thanks guys! Totally makes me want to be “woohoo usa, land of the free!”
However, I still respect veterans. I believe they are able to fight for the ideas of what the US is able to be, and push everything else aside. We have fucked up as a country time and time again, but the framework is there for us to be so much better. I believe that is why a lot of people choose to serve, though everyone’s reasons may be different.
I unfortunately can’t see it the same way. It’s 2024 and all we seem to be doing is going backwards, hence my first comment. Its too much “Freedom for me but not for thee” nowadays.
Some people genuinely do not like or respect the US military, some people here are immigrants whose native country got completely fucked over BY our country’s military, and yet the response for a lot of these people are nationalist biased and just plain blind “go back to your country then!” Most don’t sympathize with you for anything the absolute moment you denounce the military here, despite the past 25 years of military action from us being nothing but sheer imperialism, exploitation of resources, and propaganda. Nobody has had to actually “fight” for our country in decades, all the “fight” has been has been us sticking our business in other territories against their will and creating nothing but casualties and politicians getting richer. Yet we still make the whole idea of service glamorous and that our country is the one paying the real sacrifice when we have tenfold the innocent casualties on the other side. But the moment you bring any of this up in front of non Gen-Zers, you are labeled as a commie.
I personally don’t understand the whole argument of the military not getting respect whatsoever when honestly I see almost nothing but the complete opposite most of the time in public. We have millions pumped into advertising every year, we have standing ovations for them in practically every event, I can’t go to a single sports event without hearing some D-riding speech about them. Clap clap clap go them, We even have two dedicated holidays for them
Then there’s the culture, from my experience in high school, I did have a few friends who joined for noble causes, but honestly as for the rest who joined? Biggest assholes I’ve ever met who are just doing it for the benefits and the glamour and carry on that lie with them when they speak about why they joined. In fact most of the loudest pro military people from my school were the radically alt right conservative rednecks who everyone knew were just closet racists, and who joked about blowing up sand n-ggers if they ever had the chance. Yet all of those others carry that lie, and it fools most people every time, because we Americans as a whole are suckers for people in the military. There’s that sort of culture it incubates within it that is vastly rampant and no one talks about.
You're willing to die for an oil company? Could never be me but you do you I suppose
Selling yourself to the armed forces involved in some of the greatest fragrant violations of international laws and perpetrators of horrific human rights abuses of one of the foremost imperialist countries in the world for the sake of its “defense” and wellbeing is gross to say the least
Be use our military is rarely used for good. They fight, kill and die for the interest of a few people. Iraq 2 war they killed over 100k civilians and displaced 1 million plus. We made up a reason to invade and lied to the world. There was no reason to do it. The power vaccine created ISIS which further spread misery.
Afghanistan was a war to placate the populace because no way we go after the country actually respond.
It’s more likely you will kill some poor innocent person, than kill someone who is an actual threat to America, and they will do it so some rich asshole can be more rich.
i would rather take a cactus up my ass than become property of the government
My father was an officer in Vietnam and told me under no circumstances was I to join any branch of the US Miliary. I may not be GenZ by a long shot but I fully agree with them. The Military in every country is just the physical extension of power by the wealthy elites in charge. All militaries are used purely to perpetuate or expand their power and wealth. The myth of "Defense" is the greatest myth of all.
Questions like these remind me that there are people out there living fundamentally different lives.
Because, from my end, what reason is there to be “pro”-military, especially as a relatively well-educated American? This country was built off slavery and genocide. That hasn’t changed — the military (at least in America) is essentially a force for US imperialism. A sizable chunk of Gen Z (if not the majority at this point) were and are negatively impacted by wars and foreign powers destabilizing their government and economy.
I’m friends with several current US servicemen and veterans who only joined because they needed healthcare and education, something other countries get through their citizens’ tax dollars (even “countries” that we are directly funneling our tax dollars into). They are pro-education, pro-retirement, etc., but many resent risking their lives for it.
we put billions into the military every year, and typically use that money to go and harrass other nations but i cant have a dental implant covered by state insurance and have to figure it out myself even though im going to school to become a civil servant.
i tell many a european friend about how my medical insurance can fuck me over and all of them are confused and dumbfounded until they realize good ol uncle sam doesnt have universal healthcare, in fact is the only developed country without universal healthcare.
YEAH!! no because explaining that my insurace will happily pull the tooth but then i have to spend my own 5k just to get an implant. its not even a hidden tooth, its a premolar, and its needing to be removed due to a childhood illness that messed it up, it wasnt even user error or anything. its ridiculous.
As they should be
Because no one wants to bully and kill defenseless and poor countries.
Country doesn’t give a fuck about you. People in power don’t give a fuck about you. It’s all a joke. Nationalism is bs. I love the people of this country as 9/10 people are just nice people that want to do good and take care of their families. I do my best to enrich my life and those around me. I don’t “love my country and my flag.” Wake tf up. (Not at you OP just to all the dummies void of a personality so they make loving their country a centerpiece of who they are).
There’s some seriously beneficial skills you CAN selfishly (good thing) get for joining the military. But becoming a pawn in whatever hell it is that the powers in this world are doing is morally a non negotiable.
I’m against almost all politicians, I live in Florida and value liberty and freedom. Absolutely not anti conservative. Try to categorize me. Anyway have a beautiful day everyone
I like military but I hate wars and I will never participate in one and I will kill anyone that tries to force me, I don't care that they are on my side
It can situationally be good but there is a lot of issues
First obvious one is you can get a lot of medical issues from your deployment and while efforts have been made during the Biden Admin, in America you're just going to get ignored.
There's a lot of culture problems in the military itself as well. Sexual assault is a huge issue for example. But I guess there is good news with this as well since it looks efforts are being made with some success https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/05/16/pentagon-reports-drop-sexual-assaults-first-time-nearly-decade.html
The military is not a force of good. It's a force for the US government. This may align with what you consider good, but when we look at operations we did in the past 20 years since we were all children, a lot of civilians died in Afghanistan and Iraq+ Syria. You can even look historically. Reality is there's a chance you're going to be part of something you would consider immoral
This one's more recent but now politically there's been a push for mandatory service in recent months. Grant it's some guy who worked for trump really pushing and Trump says he wouldn't do it. But it is Trump. He says a lot of things and then does the other. And even ignoring the current election, what about 5 or 10 years from now? Maybe the political time it's different and this thing actually does get traction.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/06/10/trump-military-draft-mandatory-service/
Obviously, America’s military has hardly fought for “freedom” or “liberty” given huge swaths of its population was either enslaved, genocided, or third-class citizens for some time.
But even if we ignore those times and focus on modern times, I think the wars in Afghanistan and especially Iraq great hurt the image. People aren’t going to be eager to fight for what they believe is the wrong side of history and one can only blame the actions of the U.S. military and D.C. for fostering these beliefs.
Plus people see the domestic state of America and ask why the hell are we investing in militarism when its work to do at home? Imagine if that $8T could’ve been spent of securing internet for all Americans, providing meals in schools and improving classrooms and playgrounds, fixing bridges and the potholes in roads, or promoting the general welfare as defined in preamble.
I have never been anti military or anti US, but I have been against the over reliance on military power in our foreign policy. I’m not a fan of gun boat diplomacy, but I fully appreciate military service and sacrifice.
Why? Because it’s been a long time since war actually set a foot in the country
Funny enough is due to the military existence but people like to think we live in a more civilized world
But yeah if US didn’t have the world’s most powerful military someone would be invading it right now, probably China
Hong Kong would not exist
Probably Japan either
EU would be a lot bloodier
South Korea would be a cementery
South America would be a lot poorer and probably bloodier, depending on the country that sets a foothold on the politics there
I am not saying the current status is perfect, but a lot could go even worse if an expansionist country was at the top, Russian for example
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News only shows the bad, people miss anything good that happens regarding the military.
I'm sure it's cool if you want to do it. I don't like the Military Industrial Complex, and think most current military leadership is composed of the MID's cronies and swamp creatures.
I got no issue with soldiers. It’s the institution, there’s a reason the founding fathers didn’t want a standing military. Not really an option anymore but look at the mess we’re in, look at the corruption. I won’t even start with genocides and crimes against humanity.
I think killing people is bad
The only people I see hating on the us military are people who fall in the “aMeriCA bAd” camp, and those who know nothing about the military, let alone foreign policy. I for one enjoy that the most powerful military on the planet belongs to a democracy where people can freely say how much they hate it, rather than say, Russia or China 🤷♂️. Exercise that first amendment right that the military is sworn to protect, and I say that with complete sincerity.
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13d
THIS IS THE ONLY WAY IT COULD HAVE ENDED.
WAR NO LONGER NEEDED ITS ULTIMATE PRACTICIONER. IT HAD BECOME A SELF-SUSTAINING SYSTEM. MAN WAS CRUSHED UNDER THE WHEELS OF A MACHINE CREATED TO CREATE THE MACHINE TO CRUSH THE MACHINE. SAMSARA OF CUT SINEW AND CRUSHED BONE. DEATH WITHOUT LIFE. NULL OUROBOROS. ALL THAT REMAINED IS WAR WITHOUT REASON.
Certainly not anti-military by any standard. Just not thrilled with their $900B budget.
Won’t pretend to know everything about that breakdown but I think the DoD could probably make due with a 3-5% cut. That money can be used for things like education funding, peace missions, housing development, etc.
Love a strong military, don't like getting involved in other nations affairs.
Afghanistan was the Vietnam of our time and its a fucking embarrassment.
People are wise to not wanting to die for an oil company and politicians.
I'll take up arms if my country is under attack but that's it.
As the meme on the top comment suggests, I think it's moreso being against the country's foreign policies as a whole, of which being in the military can (and will) be seen as encouraging or being involved in those activities.
imo..... I think everyone I have ever met in the military has a couple screws loose if you know what I mean... (just my experience. I know not everyone in service is like this) Not to mention, years of SA women face while in service and in some cases resulting in death. No justice served to the families of these victims and no accountability held to military higher ups for trying to brush these incidents under the rug. I also think its fucking ridiculous how much the US spends on military expenditures. Im in aviation so I understand the costs of a lot the the aircraft and where that money goes, but like fuck, compared to other countries, the amount we spend is astronomical. Free college is great, theres so many great job opportunities for when you leave, but those are my main reasons. (1999 F)
I think so many hate the military b/c of those who joined not thinking ahead of what they want to accomplish while serving, being anti-war like Joker from Full Metal Jacket/afraid to be in the war zone, not spending their money wisely, & not thinking abt what they want to do if they leave- most don’t want to take accountability for not rationally joining. I’d really like to join b/c it’d help me out financially & career-wise, & I wonder if this draft thing will include select neurodivergent ppl which is the only thing that becomes a hitch in me joining (mixed messages from recruiters)
I'm not interested in dying so the 1% can make even more money. I'll shoot my foot before I get drafted into the US fuckin military
I am proud that the young people are turning anti war and anti military. You all keep rocking it, if they have no soldiers for their stupid war games we will have to have peace. Summer of love reboot
They are blinded mostly by their hatred of what they see as authoritarian group that goes against their main political agenda. Fact is every country needs a military and the same people that claim they hate it will cry for help when the country is attacked. Mind you they don’t want to be the ones to defend it, they would rather other people do it. You are a credit to your generation, feel proud for the service you are doing
I just don’t want to fight for this country seeing the way that so many Americans are treated by this country and how dishonest our government is. But once I become well established and have enough money saved up I’m fleeing this place
My dad was in the military and it destroyed him mentally, physically, and emotionally. I’ll never forgive them for that.
Ask again in a year
World War 1 & World War 2 literally messed up our world.
“Thou shalt not kill”
Because they take an absurd amount of my tax dollars in order to turn little brown children into grease stains on the pavement. Source: my mom was Navy and dad is Army
I’m all for national security, but like we spend almost a trillion dollars a year on the military, imagine all the other shit we could do with a trillion dollars every year, hunger, poverty, homelessness, education, healthcare, any other social safety net…
my family members served in the military and where dropped like a sack of rotten potatoes after. they came home with severe mental health problems that werent present when they left. they get hooked on drugs trying to escape themselves. my father in law has been denied his military benefits.
Government’s corrupt, that’s why. You’re on Reddit though, this ain’t an accurate depiction of real world opinions on most subjects.
(Also, wtf is the wording of this post? You sound like a fed.)
I think because of the wars in Iraq, Vietnam, etc mostly at least here in the USA. Also, people are worried about becoming disabled or dying. Even if you're not in active duty, you can develop mental health issues like ptsd. I know someone who only was in for four years and never deployed, but developed mental health issues.
I have no problem against military, I have problems with the government running it.
I know a recruiter when I see one! Stay away!
It’s amazing how I got friends and a good job without licking any boots and/or killing civilians in a foreign country
Those in the military are anti-military these days. There are problems with our defense system in America and there’s nothing wrong with calling it out. Doesn’t mean we love our vets any less.
We absolutely want you to get the most out of the military that you can. [and we commend you for your service blah blah salute]
The things people will (within their rights) command the military to do . . . well those we completely disagree with.
I'm just not interested in doing an imperialism, but I don't hold it against people that are in it. It's really the US's only half way decent jobs program, so it's the only viable path to raising your social standing for a lot of people so I respect that. We should still severely cut military funding and make better jobs programs that actually improve American lives though.
“Each year federal agencies receive funding from Congress, known as budgetary resources . In FY 2024, the Department of Defense (DOD) had $2.08 Trillion distributed among its 6 sub-components. Agencies spend available budgetary resources by making financial promises called obligations .” Source: https://www.usaspending.gov/agency/department-of-defense#:~:text=Each%20year%20federal%20agencies%20receive,making%20financial%20promises%20called%20obligations%20.
2.08 TRILLION spent on weapons of war, machines for the sole purpose of killing others, and not to mention vast amounts of money wasted. https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-sanders-grassley-and-colleagues-make-bipartisan-push-to-audit-the-pentagon-and-end-wasteful-spending/#:~:text=“From%20buying%20%2414%2C000%20toilet%20seats,by%20wasteful%20spending%20for%20decades.
“Last year, the DOD failed its fifth audit and was unable to account for over half of its assets, which are in excess of $3.1 trillion, or roughly 78 percent of the entire federal government.”
We could be spending billions on helping the homeless in our country, improving education & modernizing classrooms. Or paying for college, or putting money into a clean energy program since each summer is “the hottest on record” with no trend of stopping.
My main gripes with the military is our sheer spending on it, and the misuse of that spending.Exacerbating that is “Use it or lose it” spending. I don’t know too much about this so if I’m wrong any part, go ahead and correct me.
“Among the more noteworthy expenditures in 2018, according to the watchdog group Open the Books, was $4.6 million for lobster tail and crab.
Such use-it-or-lose-it spending stems from the fact that each federal agency is given a certain amount of money it can spend on outside contractors for the fiscal year. “
So we have a massive budget issue, spending issue, and an issue of even making a fucking budget.
The US military is, simply put, incompetent.
Release the edge lords...
The U.S. military hasn’t been primarily defensive since they joined WW1. And even then there were a couple wars before that was basically America saying “fuck you we’re killing you and taking your land”. See the Mexican American war or the Spanish American war or every war against the native Americans. It’s kinda ignorant to say that the military today is different and much better now. They still do those terrible things it’s just much more hidden but the projection of power is still there. That is something I just can’t support.
The money that's being given for military funding can be used for many other things like healthcare, safety of students in schools, proper school meals, helping the less unfortunate. Hopefully, the USA and many other countries involve sees their time for the crimes, they've committed to innocent people. Politicians are the ones, who instigate wars against the innocent. Why don't they go fight instead of using people who are most likely to return home dead? They can do so because they don't care about you. They get to flee in case of a war. Do you or your family get to do that? No. I say, this for militaries in alot of countries.
because the war on terror failed and we see the military as an albatross around our governments neck.
you see, before the Kabul pullout, the military was the one thing the entire government, regardless of politics, thought deserve tax dollars because they generally get shit done. however, we gave them an impossible task (the war on terror itself). looking more closely at foreign policy at the time, we basically served as mercenaries for Saudi Arabia, an imperialist country with a state religion identical theologically to al-qaeda (the big difference comes down to views of the western world). in addition, it was revealed that much of the country in favour of the war followed a strain of christianity with eerie parallels to the kind of islam al-qaeda preaches.
tl;Dr we made them waste taxpayer money and human lives to sell two countries to an imperialist apocalypse cult theologically identical to the terrorists we were fighting and in turn sold our own country to an imperialist apocalypse cult within our own government.
Because people act like it’s a service when in the US, it’s a job like any other.
It’s complex. I’m wary, tired, disgusted by trillions spent and many many thousands of lives lost over decades because of needless wars. It’s the military industrial complex that I’m not happy with, not people like you.
I don’t wanna join because the us military is a tool of a irresponsible government
grew up in a military family, every man on both sides was in some branch.
but my dad was the only one who ever talked about it. shit guy. he told me about the war crimes he committed, how he burned down an active mosque, how he killed someones goat, he mocked and was racist towards the people he was 'protecting'. he glorified the killing, the violence, talked about it like it was some boys hunting trip.
he kept a cabinet of guns in his bedroom. never saw him use them, especially after they got taken away after her felony charge. he worked at a prison too and joked about how hed taunt and mistreat the inmates. so i guess whenever i see someone in the military, i assume they want power and violence.
they don’t serve me, why should i serve them
The government doesn’t care about you or me, why would I die for them? That would be stupid. And we have this weird thing in America that is “automatic highest respect for military” and after you see so many vets be ass holes it makes you wonder why. I do have a little bit of an automatic respect, as you served the country, but I have no idea why someone would do it for such a shitty government, unless you have no future in life and the military is the only way you can have structure and success. I know a couple of people who would be absolute bums if they didn’t go to the military, and because they did their lives are probably 5x better, so it definitely works for some people. But I wouldn’t join unless we were going to be invaded.
Military industrial complex and using things like free college to entice the poor to go off and die for the rich.
There have been exactly zero wars that have been about defending our freedoms since ww2.
I believe in a unified globe I think militaries are dumb as a concept
Because everyone in this sub is a Redditor. There is very little moderation on reddit, the majority of subs are echo chambers repeating the same extreme ideologies back at the people in them, so you get a lot of people who are “I’d never serve in the military, I’d serve crack before I serve this country, if there was a draft I’d kill myself, etc.” and then you’ve got people with punisher stickers on their pickup trucks who would jump at any opportunity to kill people
This sub is mostly the first group because people our age aren’t exactly known for their courage, there are definitely some of the second group sprinkled in, but that’s because people our age are also infamous for our mental illnesses. Overall this sub is 1000% not representative of gen z as a whole in real life, same goes for any subreddit and it’s respective group I’d say. I’d be willing to bet most of the people saying they’d draft dodge don’t even tell the waitresses at restaurants when their order’s fucked up
For Americans specifically it’s probably because a lot of us grew up in an era where several wars were started on a basis of straight up lies, the most infamous of which (the Afghanistan war) lasted pretty much all the way up until early adult life for a good chunk of Gen Z so there would’ve been plenty of time growing up to see the horrors wrought by that war and the fallout from those wars was plain for all to see, the war on terrorism harmed more innocent people than it did terrorists and ended up being used as an excuse to infringe on the privacy of Americans through the patriot act and other similar surveillance based laws.
I don’t wanna die or be maimed for a government that is AT BEST indifferent to my existence.
Also, the military is perpetually doing stuff that goes against my personal ethical code.
Edit: wanted to add, my little cousin turns 16 this week. His grandpa(my great-uncle) won’t be there because he died due to a cancer caused by Agent Orange. This government did not give a shit about exposing the young men they sent to die in their meaningless wars to all kinds of hazardous chemicals then and they still don’t now.
Cuz violence is a volume
Hey fellow kids! The military is based af! Get cool job training and yeet rizz!
I "served" for 6 years.
The US military is a global weapon of intimidation and fear. Everything I did in the Navy was done to incite fear into countries that are less capable of defending themselves. I stood on the wrong side of protests multiple times, knowing why everyone in these countries foreign to me hated us, and it didn't take long for me to agree with them.
As soon as I got through the charade that is boot camp, I fucking despised what I was doing, so I did everything possible to participate in the subjugation of the fucking planet the least I could. I spent more time in medical than I did at "work" honestly.
It's wild to come on here and support the military because you personally are benefiting from it when the US is actively funding a genocide.
Morally bankrupt doesn't even begin to describe this nonsense.
Because Reddit
Jesus christ where were you working that you make more in the military??? Unless you're a CO?
I think the United States spends too much money on it when we have other issues. Also, we were warned about the military industrial complex yet we keep on perpetuating it :(
My bf was in the army. One time he told me a story about how while he was sleeping rats ran over his face and how invested the bunks were. Showed me how amazing the US treats their vets
I’m in no way against anybody who wants to serve this country. I have mad respect for you and other military and especially our vets. What I don’t have respect for is the politicians who control our military and I won’t be dying overseas to fill politicians pockets. If WW3 breaks out and we have a draft and I get drafted I will literally laugh in the recruiters face.
I am a bit bias but without the Vietnam war I most likely wouldn’t even be able to come to America. (Bad english, sorry) I would proudly server under the army! (Airforce too if I could) My father was USSF and he said it was great!
Military are the agents of war.
War kills people.
Killing people is bad.
They probably don't dislike the individuals, just war. War is bad, m'kay....
Found the fed
I think it’s important to know/remember all the horrific things the US has done with its military. I think it’s also important to acknowledge the amount of a-holes in the world who would love this big chunk of land we call the US. We can’t change the past, only what we do in the future. :/
The US Military has been an outrageously over-subsidized arm of corrupt politicians for decades. They murder and oppress citizens of other countries for financial and political gain. The injustices exacted by the US Military in its history are absolutely horrendous.
I don't think the average person who is anti-military is against the people who are in the military (I am certainly not, and it would be a leap to blame any individual enlisted person), they are against spending almost $1 trillion in taxpayer money a year to murder and exploit.
it’s MASSIVELY overfunded (and poorly managed, as in BILLIONS in unaccounted-for money EVERY YEAR) and relies on child predation to convince kids straight out of high school (with no real education since nothing important is really learned in k-12 school) that being in the military is a good thing. essentially convincing kids through monetary benefits, unseen through the rest of american life, that it’s worth it to sell their bodies to the government to uphold our imperialist practices and possibly die trying to control foreign governments. no other country has NEAR as much global military power as the US and that’s not a good thing. the podcast “pick me up, i’m scared” has a lot of really good episodes on why the military, intelligence agencies, and america in general, aren’t great
Here’s my thing, I respect those who served and are serving. My thing is I don’t feel I could ethically join, the military because I don’t want to end up in a situation where, I get sent off to war, kill people only to be told 10-15 years later it was bullshit. I think the military opens a lot of doors for people I almost considered myself just for the opportunity to travel.
Also the amount of money we spend on the military, we can afford to train people to kill, build planes, tanks and bombs, fund. proxy wars in other parts of the world, bail out banks
But all of a sudden when we need health care for vets, healthcare in general, affordable education, food for the homeless we are on the brink of bankruptcy as a nation
I’m not a socialist sandy, or a burn it all down anarchist
But the simple fact is our so called democratic republic is actually, an oligarchy that influences everything the United States does domestically and internationally
Think about it regardless of the morality or the politics of the two wars and conflicts the media is directing our attention towards who’s gonna make a fuck Ton of money? American companies that make military technology
Look head and Boeing make aerospace technology but they are both also licensed by the government contracts to make military equipment and technology
And that’s just military
Think about all the other industries in America, food, medical, etc.
It’s fucking depressing when you look at it.
That’s why I won’t join the military in fact I’m happy to say if a draft was coming I’d fuck off to my family on the other side of the ocean,
Cause I ain’t fighting for corporate imperialism
Man honestly I’m jealous of the benefits y’all get lol
I have no problem with a country having a military.
I don’t have a problem with the personnel making up the military.
I have a problem with the military being used to make money, and spending so much on the military when children are starving and they are pulling back programs that feed them.
I also have a problem when our guys are treated poorly. Such as expendable or how many veterans are homeless, and disabled.
Because it's an institution that perpetuates War, Death and Destruction. The military drains the treasury to the point where we can't have free healthcare or higher education. If you are part of the military, I have absolutely no respect for you.
I am not anti-military. I understand a nation's need to have a force to defend itself.
What I am against is an endless war machine that is designed that way. I'm against my taxes being used to brutalize innocent people because they exist next to some guy who doesn't like us on the other side of the planet.
In a petty note, I'm anti-having to suck off some "veteran" who was deployed to Twentynine Palms for a couple years, and somehow deserves lifetime praise and discounts because he sat his ass in an air conditioned office doing the same job as you, but wearing camo when he did it.
Well for one I’m a woman and the military isnt really known for being super great to women. I also hate the institution and what it does and has done.
ISIS, the Nazi party, etc. all have thriving communities here in the U.S. no matter how hard the U.S. bombs other countries.
People are getting shot at school, church, the grocery store, etc.
So when we ask "Why are the soldiers killing those people overseas?" and our parents tell us "To protect us from people who want to kill us for our way of life", we look back here and realize people are still doing that. Right here on American soil, seemingly unabated. We can't trust the police because they are "not obligated to protect us"(Supreme Court's words, not mine) and we can't trust our government because they're busy fighting each other to listen to their constituents.
So what are we excited about when people say "god bless the military"? Our military budget dwarfs every other country's budget by a huge margin and people back home are seeing nothing but negatives come from it. We're way behind in healthcare, education, and infrastructure to leave enough money for this military that -from where we're standing- isn't accomplishing anything.
Maybe if the government were more transparent we'd see a bigger picture and not be so quick to judge, but how do you trust someone who lies and keeps secrets from you your entire life?
Of course, my problem is more with the military as an institution. The individuals are most of the time pretty cool people and I hope they get free healthcare and college. I would also argue they deserve a car and a home but I know the U.S. is too cheap for that.
College should be free, whether you have served in the military or not.
Ans the reason is, that there is little point in dying for the ruling class who actively hates us and wants us oppressed under their boots.
It feels weird being in this comment section. The idea of people being so anti-military seems odd to me. I think I might just have a grimmer perception of the world because when someone says “they are dedicating their career to killing people” my thought is just “yes, and?”. Idk, I think I’m just stepping into a different corner of the internet and seeing the differences.
Ok, lots of knee-jerk reactions of people so far so I’ll go for it.
People who have never served don’t realize the military is full of people of all walks of life, meaning we are just average humans like them.
Some bad actors are currently in control of our government and making all of us, (civilian and military) do bad shit.
But there’s still good people out there who honestly want to do right by others, like these Chinook pilots who flew in to smoke multiple times to rescue stranded civies from a wildfire
Not one thing you or OP have said makes me think we need a military as bloated as ours.
Why would I care that OP is getting free college or that the individuals serving with you are good people generally - I mean isn’t this the case in most professions? It doesn’t mean the work they do is worth doing with public funds.
I don’t think a lot of what the military is doing with our tax money is worth our time and effort, and yall having a good experience while in there doesn’t change that.
Most of the people here aren't bashing those who serve. It's the institution most of us have a problem with. As the saying goes, "Don't hate the player. Hate the game."
That’s actually really kind of you to remind me of that. Apologies, been angry with the game for a while now.
What do you think we should do?
There was just another upvoted commenter in this thread that said all enlisted people were psychos lol
No one cares about what walks of life service members come from. The entire institution is corrupt. Doesn’t matter if you’re using the military to escape the hood or come from a military family. An individual’s reason is almost meaningless because the goals of the military far outweigh any notion of “good people” and their desire to do good things.
I feel like the Chinook Pilots thing could’ve been done by a national parks ranger with the right resources and training. 🤷🏼♀️
I think a lot of good innocent people get into the military thinking they’ll defend people and liberty and Justice blah blah so most of the people in the military aren’t the main problem. A lot are poor and need the benefits and purpose and the recruiters sell the military to them.
But just because there are good people doesn’t mean it’s a good thing or they’re good people just for joining. It’s kinda like an aggressive and often violent MLM. I don’t like MLMs and don’t think they should exist. I pity the people who get sucked in for whatever reason.
Yeah, I bet they could have given the right situation. But likely, there probably weren’t park rangers with the opportunity to fly in at the moment and the situation called for urgency.
And yeah I’m guilty as charged with that innocent joining comment. 911 happened when I was in 5th grade. totally bought in to the propaganda.
And very good comparison with MLMs! You’re not wrong. Basically pyramid schemes for both the current military and MLMs.
If I may, one of the biggest secrets of the current military is that it wasn’t intended to be a standing army. Traditionally armies are raised and then disbanded as needed. Costs way too much to do consistently. So a big military culture, especially after 911, isn’t real
You can argue with stupid all day long, but it is a losing battle.
That's cool and all however most of the time if you try and do the right thing you'll get charged for not falling in line and willing to kill civilians
"Currently in control"
I don't think its just a current thing. The US military has almost always had people like this, particularly in the past 80 or so years
Too right you are. Every base has its culture and every state is a microcosm of its people. The military is so big with hundreds of thousands of uniforms and civilians. The bad stick out, badly. The good you almost never hear about on reddit. I've met more good people who want to make a difference than bad people who want to hurt their own. Serving your country is a selfless thing and there are a lot of selfless people that serve our country in ways other than the military. It's just one way for you to give back to your community. It's why I serve and continue to serve, simply because if not me, then who?
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