Chiefs’ Owner’s Wife response to Harrison Butker speech
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I thought the studies showed that single, childless women were the happiest demographic?
I noticed she only shared the statistic for men. 🙄 Missed the point again.
Eta: screenshot of slide she shared
Brad Wilcox… is that the same Mormon guy who gave a racist speech at a local conference? Said something along the lines of “Why didn’t the blacks get the priesthood until the 1900’s? Maybe you should be asking why the whites and others had to wait until the 1800’s?”
I thought I was on r/exmormon for a second, I did not expect to see Brad Wilcox content here!!
Haha me too!!
“My name is ‘Really Bad’, but you can call me Brad for short.”
Basically, if his name is Brad Wilcox, RUN.
So apparently there’s two asshole Brad Wilcoxes. This isn’t the same Brad as the Mormon one who is racist and sexist and homophobic.
Yes, because we usually have a woman taking care of us as the adult children most men are.
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It does
Happiness is an emotion not a state
My friends dad is first cousins with Clark. They are still in Texas and very liberal. I can’t wait to hear my friend tell me what she says at the next family get together. Last time, Clark’s wife pissed her off she spent 3 hours talking about the smell of cow shit at the top of her lungs and what its like for live in a place where the air always smells like cow shit.
Iykyk
So why is she being a mouthpiece for this POS? I wish I could take her and Isabelle and every other poor woman cowed into being a household appliance to a rage room and really let them step into their outrage. I can’t even imagine the path to get to this point. It’s genuinely heartbreaking
Do you mean why is Clark’s wife being a mouth piece? Because she’s been brain washed by purity culture and religion.
Honestly, I grew up in a very conservative Catholic family. I completely understand how she has been led to this opinion. Growing up in Kansas was like having purity culture shoved down our throats. I completely understand how she got to this point. What’s sad is she’s never stopped and reflected over everything.
Organized religion is dangerous. It tells you what to think, feel, see and do.
Now my friend still lives in Texas and grew up in a Christian home. There is nothing conservative about my friend, she’s like the black sheep of her family. When her parents met me, they thought I would be a good influence. When in reality, my friend corrupted me. She has always lived life like it’s a good time and she’s never going to let the good times end. It’s like a breath of air being around her for those who have lived scared of stepping out of the square.
Money.
It’s giving Serena Joy.
Blessed be the fruit, I guess.
Majority of the nfl is conspiracy theorist . Taylor fit right in . Aaron Rodgers’s don’t believe in vaccines . Jason and Travis said at one point half the nfl believe the earth is flat .
Majority of wags are stay at home moms cause they can cause their husbands make a lot of money . So this mentality is a defense mechanism for them .
My friend played football with Butker at Georgia Tech. When I asked about him, he said “He was just a flatout dickhead that I and many of my teammates can confirm. He would just act like an asshole to everyone… would say my beard looked like pubes. Dude was way too try hard with religious stuff (this is coming from someone who is literally catholic as well). The man didn’t have sex with his wife until they got married.”
I was raised Catholic as well. While I no longer believe and actively am trying to undo the harm it caused me, everyone is welcome to their own beliefs - until they start harming others.
Using your platform to say such harmful rhetoric isn’t “sharing your truth”. It is actively promoting a misogynistic society.
Don’t get me wrong, I feel terribly for the women involved and the internalized misogyny and belief in a patriarchal society. I feel for the young women and girls who hear this coming from men and women they may look up to but I do believe more women are able to see past these lies - even in a religious context.
However, I am almost more concerned for the men and boys. The male graduates who gave him a standing ovation at the ceremony. The men in the comments who agree. The men who don’t care to understand the significance of the work that has been done to move past this way of thinking. The men who retreat to their echo chambers and then go to lead others and teach the same ideology, either deliberately or subconsciously through bigoted language and micro aggressions.
So now the work that was done to raise women over the past 60 years is forced to go head to head against upcoming men who grow to hate the (not yet) equality of this new age. The fear mongering and hatred towards women as they realize they will no longer get the free pass that their fathers and grandfathers had.
This post isn’t going anywhere but I am just so frustrated and saddened to see men refuse to step up to the plate and the women in their lives willingly succumbing to it and promoting it to others.
This! Men are becoming so super conservative. I can understand it’s out of the fear of losing all the privileges they’ve gained from domesticating women but geeze. What does this mean for women in the future? How is all of that hatred going to show??
When a subset starts losing power or even thinks they MAY, it causes extremism and backsliding, which is what we are seeing. There is a huge possibility we overcome and come out on the other side stronger.
So yes, your words to mean something. ❤️
So much that needs to be said. Most based I’ve seen
There are rumblings that he was on grinder before…
I am personally staying away from speculating about his sexuality and the unsubstantiated rumors (fwiw- former teammate had heard nothing of the sort).
A male athlete with internalized homophobia isn’t ground breaking.
By focusing on the rumor, it changes the conversation. I can understand the desire to say that some of the speech and vitriol was rooted in internalized homophobia and his personal struggles with identity and faith.
But, it moves us away from the actual issues this speech has caused and the extending ripple seen here. It changes the conversation and narrative away from how his statements are harmful to women (and men). And I think that’s a more worthy conversation.
Well it could explain why he is presenting as so opposed to those views. Just a thought
How is not having sex with your wife "trying to hard" to be a catholic
This is what they want 🤢🤮 Fukk em 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕
I hate when women make it sound like you need children to be happy. You don’t. I say that as a mother. I love my son but some days this shit is hard and I miss my childfree days. I learned real quick that I’m a one and some kind of person. If someone wants to be child free, let them be that way.
And a family doesn’t have to be one man and one woman with kids. LGBTQ+ people have very healthy and happy home lives with their children.
I say that as a mother too! If you don’t want children, don’t have them. They’re fucking hard and exhausting and to me, worth it. But if it’s not for you, happy childfee forever days to you! 🎉
THIS!!! As a mom to a son and a lesbian I agree..
Checking in as a bi woman. Ironically I pictured my perfect family life with all the women I dated. I only thought about it with one man and it wasn’t the one I had a kid with.
Damn she limited comments!! I would love to see where she found this study…. The correct statistic is married men and SINGLE women are the happiest based on many reports
Not directly Gaylor, but man Taylor is chummy with a whole lot of bigots in the Chiefs world at the moment. Seems like an opportunity to speak out or make an impactful statement to support women's rights and progress.
I wouldn't say she's particularly chummy with anyone but Travis and Patrick's family. She was stopped and took a photo with that bigot one time but that's kind of it, wasn't it? I highly doubt she's going to say something and I don't really feel like she needs to
She's hung out with daughter and taken multiple pictures with the owners as well as Butker's insane preacher friend. All these people are openly anti-LGBTQ and anti-women, which is such a strange crowd for Taylor to be involved with and (in some cases) helping promote.
She might not be particularly chummy with them, but after last football season her name has been attached to everything chiefs, and so people will associate her with anything related to them. She did that by choosing to take this path, and she should should say something.
I could not agree more. I’m so disappointed in everything about this whole debacle. Taylor has her issues but this makes me have even less love for her. She isn’t a feminist. She only cares about herself
I think that’s always been the case. But I would say it like: Taylor isn’t a feminist in totality. Only when it comes to her.
She never speaks on important issues so I'm not surprised
I say let her cook.. my gut feeling is that she's waiting for her masters to be regained before speaking out on social issues. I dont know why, but it's just a feeling i have. Maybe its my delusion, or maybe she is playing the long game (like a mastermind) ... i dont think it's a bad idea to grow her name as big as possible before getting political, her reach will be insane, the swifties are powerful. She can become a voice that can't be silenced, and speak up for everyone who has been silenced. I dont think her friends would stick by her like they have (i.e. Blake Lively, Gigi Hadid..) if she was a terrible person.
Why do people expect her to come out again Travis’s teammate? Would you speak out against your partners co worker?
I do it regularly. Granted it's not on the international stage though. Problem is, when you have a giant platform and you let bad people on to it, it's sorta your responsibility to push back.
The last thing Taylor is is a girls girl. She's for herself only and if remaining silent keeps that cash flowing in for her, that's just what she'll do.
Welcome to Missouri!
Of all the comments I’ve read about this… As a Kansan who sometimes lives in Missouri… This is the best explanation of events.
Other people won’t get it - but we do.
Who could have guessed a sports organization with a huge wifebeating problem would be anti-women??
My brother works for the NFL (not for the Chiefs, but for another team), and when I say this is a very common mentality for football couples (especially in the south!) to have…
This actually made me feel sick to my stomach. I really viscerally hate people telling me what I should want to do with my body and my life. I am also so sick of the ACTUAL diabolical lies that women are told, which is that we need to have children to be happy. There's nothing wrong with having kids or wanting to, but there's also nothing wrong with not wanting that.
Wish people would keep their religion to themselves.
Hahaha studies have not shown that.
Studies show that child free, single women are the happiest. Check Dolan’s book for a source.
She didn't even address the anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric. It's 2024, come on have a spine.
That’s cause the majority of them agree with what he said. The “brands” issue statements to deflect and keep their coins.
She agrees with it. She hashtagged “Focus on the family,” the name of a homophobic Christian group.
Woah where?
It’s cut off on this post but you can see it’s in the third row of her hashtags here
I thought you meant Taylor so my apologies however holy shit this is heavy. So sad.
Women are not the side character for men to live out their dreams and this is how it comes across.
Big yikes
Says the woman who can afford to stay at home because her husband is an NFL coach. Also “raise up and train the next generation” is just another way to say “indoctrination”. Hopefully their children get access to the real world so they can make their own decisions
Her husband is the owner and a complete doofus and doesn’t have one athletic bone in his body
Oh fuck off lady
Tbh with the circles that Taylor runs in via Travis, this is a prime opportunity to put her money where her mouth is and speak out about it. She loves a chance to talk about white feminism and now’s her big chance. Bet money she won’t say anything though.
I still give major side eye to Taylor for performing multiple nights in Nashville while Tennessee government was harming the trans community and she said absolutely nothing. Part of the reason why I think Miss Americana is was supposed to be something else entirely is because basically the plot of that entire documentary has been proven to be a huge lie.
Miss Americana, and you cannot convince me otherwise, was supposed to be a coming out story. And I think that all of the self repression has manifested into this toxic bullshit.
Totally agree. Which is why I feel like it had a weird tone to it.
It was so disjointed and obviously a farce.
Also. And I did the same in my early early 20s. She’s flipped to clinging to the patriarchy to overcompensate. I hope she learns better but who knows. I also didn’t have a billion dollars to keep me comfortable.
Right like we’re really supposed to believe she did all that so she could…make a post endorsing a candidate who had no chance of winning in Tennessee???
You know what? Fucking good. Let the Chiefs ownership keep saying their quiet parts out loud. Maybe Blondie will grow whatever balls she needs to stop with the parasocial literal insanity - how many times does she need to lose control of the narrative to realize this cannot be worth it? Maybe she should stay awake just even one night wondering if what she’s done to amplify not only the Chiefs’ misogyny but the entire NFL’s, was worth it. What narrative, what power, what $ is worth all of this? Damn. I was on such a high after seeing her in Paris.
Enjoy the high. I felt the same in Los Angeles. You can enjoy the show and not agree with her. You can even enjoy the show and be hugely disappointed in the artist. I am hugely disappointed but the show was one of the best nights of my life.
🤮🤮🤮
I can’t
Of course these rich woman are going to defend staying at home when their husbands can afford it. Defensive a little rich ladies? You don’t want it to show how little value your own personal life has so you use the kids? 😒
This feels irrelevant to this subreddit lol, why are we talking about this lady?
The NFL / Chiefs are not going to let a player like this butturd who can kick a football go (nor should they as ppl who want to win more superbowls) but as the capitalist celeb liberal queen she is, Taylor should just do a CELEBRATE ALL WOMEN /QUEER message next concert w/o mentioning dude’s name. But she really /should/ say something milk toast at least on IG because he literally quoted her in the speech. I can just imagine her, “this is a narrative from which I would like to be excluded”
Are you thinking of his mom? She is
He has mummy issues
um… wtf 😭
Ugh 🤮
To be honest, people need to let this shit go. He and his wife are entitled to their opinions and they should just be seen as that: opinions.
Young people (sorry GenZ and younger millennials) need to get more comfortable with people holding differing views to their own. People don't have to rush to condemn something they don't like as bigotry. Don't like it? Okay, fine. But it doesn't mean they are bigoted.
Sorry guys. But to then conflate this with Taylor somehow being a bad person is honestly ridiculous.
The problem is that his entire speech was extremely bigoted. Telling women that have spent years working towards a degree that they have been told diabolical lies about career potential is bigotry. Calling out pride month and the LGBTQ + community as a deadly sin is bigotry. It is harmful to give a speech to women telling them that their life hasn’t been and won’t be filled with fulfillment or purpose until they get married and have babies. His speech was not uplifting or celebratory in any way.
Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it bigoted. Sorry.
It's a religious university. That's where people are going to hold those beliefs.
I don't agree with what he said. I'm gay, I'm a woman, I don't care what he said. Why would it bother me, unless I'm insecure about myself?
We can disagree with people in society and still carry on with our lives.
It is bigotry to oppress women and tell them their existence is only valuable if they give birth to children. This is the most upsetting thing to me that people view the oppression of others as a difference in opinion.
Some man speaking at a Christian college does not equate to oppression.
Go and look at what women in Saudia Arabia are forced into. Then you can talk about oppression.
Just because women in Saudi Arabia have it worse doesn’t delete the bigotry here. That’s like telling a woman that’s sexually assaulted that it could’ve been worse because it wasn’t rape.
From Merriam-Webster: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
Oxford: ˈbɪɡətri/ [uncountable] (disapproving) the state of feeling, or the act of expressing, strong, unreasonable beliefs or opinions.
Is what he said an unreasonable belief or opinion? Please quote him.
This is a thought experiment by the way. I want to see how far you would go to deplatform someone you don't agree with, and what you would have him do with opinions he's allowed to have.
Like I said. I don't agree with him. He's trash. But you can't stop him from speaking, and you shouldn't, because the mechanism through which he speaks, keeps you living in a free society. GenZ are obsessed with de-platforming people, which is what they want here. It's ridiculous.
People like him literally want to take your rights away. Maybe you live in a state or country where that's not a risk to you, or have some other protective privilege, but don't you know that not everyone's situation is like yours, and empathise?
And yes, many in the LGBTQ+ community are insecure about who they are because they've had been subjected to a lifetime of bigotry and outright hate over who they are, often from their own families. You must know this, it's sad that you don't understand or appreciate the harms caused.
As I said to another commenter below, freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence or being called out for things one says.
I’m a “mid” millennial and it’s not bigoted because I don’t like it, it just is bigoted. No I don’t need to get comfortable with people holding different views when those views are objectively hateful and harmful to people. This “why can’t we all get along” shit is so tired. I don’t care to share space with bigots and I’m not going to apologize for it.
Can you explain where the bigotry is? What did he say exactly that is bigoted?
I am literally not saying I agree with him. I obviously don't agree what he said. I just don't agree that he is being bigoted.
What a garbage take. No one is saying Taylor is a bad person, but she has a MASSIVE platform and opportunity to overshadow the bad opinions of people she's been promoting.
Also, we do not have to accept bigoted opinions. Tolerance of intolerance leads to the harming of minority communities. There is no place for misogyny, racism, homophobia, or transphobia in positions of power. It is our duty to remove bigots from power or, at the very least, loudly contest their shitty views.
You guys need to learn that if you silence everybody and deplatform people for every little thing you don't like, you force people underground with their views you cannot change by trying to make them.
Let religious people speak at their shitty little religious universities. Criticise them. They should be criticised and rebutted.
But I am so sick of people blaming others by proxy for something they either didn't say or didn't do.
Who cares what this stupid bearded man said at his shitty little uni commencement speech? Everyone is making it worse.
If you remove every person who disagrees with you from power, then you're setting yourself up for a system far worse than some football player saying sexist shit.
Man shut the fuck up, honestly. Tolerating opinions like this is how they get bigger and bigger and are allowed to become mainstream. They are entitled to their opinions and everyone who wants to is entitled to tell them to shove their bigoted opinions in their asshole. Welcome to the intolerant left.
Lmao. You've got a lot of life to learn, clearly.
It's ironic that you can't see that are the intolerant left.
Oh I happily claim the intolerant left. I don’t tolerate bigoted rhetoric and you won’t shame me into it no matter how much hand wringing you do.
Honey just jog on. I don't care what you think.
Don’t call me pet names.
Why is it wrong to stand up and say you don’t agree with things that step outside of your values?
You’re begging people to understand your values but rejecting their boundaries?
It's not wrong to do that, I never said people shouldn't stand up and say they disagree. I'm saying you should be able to hear that and move on and not jump to the worst possible conclusion. I'm saying that
My boundaries are rejected every day and my rights are being taken away for other reasons literally within the LGBTQ community. I'm not allowed to talk about that.
I do not associate myself with people who say women belong at home. If I find out they do, I call them directly out. And I’m a poor.
Fine don't associate! And don't stay at home! Nobody is forcing you, that's the point. His opinion doesn't keep you in the house. It's just an opinion.
The reason I bring up countries like Saudia Arabia is because women live in societies that are actually keeping women inside and as a separate, lower, and completely inferior class. They are certainly not even allowed to enter the workforce if they live under some parts of certain religions. That's my point. Not to ignore or say what this footballer says, if it upsets you.
But calling for him to be fired or to be deplatformed goes against the values I care about, which is the right to speak freely and openly in a democratic society. That includes hearing things I don't like.
Having bigotted opinion, and using your platform to spread said biggoted opinions are not the same thing. It’s like how when someone is cancelled, we aren’t banishing them from society, we are simply saying they can not have the same level of sway and fame because of harm they are or have perpetrated. Natural consequences 🤷🏻♀️
Okay, so what if someone silenced you for your beliefs? What if someone decided what you had to say was not worthy of being heard, and actually complained so much you were fired? You have a perception that you're right, that's all. If the majority opinion in the states changed and decided that actually, your personal beliefs were not worthy of being heard under any circumstances, then you would lose your right to speak... Is that what you want?
He didn't say anything bigoted. He went to a catholic private college and gave a speech that you didn't like. Literally nobody in this thread can actually quote what he said. Nobody. And I guarantee that's because you haven't actually listened to the speech, it's because other people have made up your mind for you, because you're a reactionary who can't think for yourself.
If you had watched the whole 20 minute speech you would have heard him say everything from a Catholic perspective, to a Catholic audience, for Catholics to absorb. Unless you are proposing that catholicism is inherently incompatible with society, then you really have no right to deplatform him or demand him to be fired. He was literally expressing his Catholic views at a university. If you don't like what he was saying, then you are effectively trying to punish someone for their right to express their freedom of religion.
Do you not understand that?
Where, exactly, should a Catholic person be able to give a Catholic speech directed at Catholic people?
You guys have all been tragically failed by your own education system if you can't work this out.
This is such an important point well made.
Paradoxically, I also think that it’s good that this speech is getting attention. They are saying the quiet part out loud now boldly and people need to wake the fuck up and hear it. When I say ‘people’ I don’t mean folks on this sub or gay people. We know already — like Cassandra we feared the worst.
It’s good that moderate Christian people, who may agree about God and motherhood but do not agree that we need to go back to the dark ages (or ban gay people) see this, and see it in turn being torn down by strident online critique and scorn. It’s good if the brainwashed see reactions other than a standing ovation.
I agree he must not be sacked and silenced but I think it’s passive to say that he should be ignored. It’s right to challenge his ideas intelligently, but the yes; battle of ideas will never be won by censorship.
Thank you for your reply.
To clarify, I don't think he should be ignored - but I think the way he is being criticised is hypocritical. I think people are outraged and honestly what he said wasn't outrageous. Like I said, nobody can even quote him 😂
If people think this is outrageous, wait til they hear about what more than half of Muslim immigrants in western societies think should happen to gay people. In the UK, more than 50% of Muslims believe that homosexuality should be illegal. https://www.cnn.com/2016/04/11/europe/britain-muslims-survey/index.html
This footballer is not standing up calling for violence or for laws to change that would put gay people in jail and force women into the home and give them no choice. But there are people doing that, but because they're from perceived minority groups, it's tolerated or filed under 'cultural differences'. That's the stuff that shouldn't be ignored. And yet, I see a lot of people ignoring it.
I don’t disagree that there are other more nefarious actors that are far more problematic. I also agree with the observations about hypocrisy and worrisome Muslim ideology in the name of religion.
I’d say though the powerful thing about this speech is that it’s not radical. It’s very easy to ‘other’ those examples you gave and point to them as fringe or extremist or even ‘un American’. With Harrison though we see that ‘the call is also coming from inside the house’ and that really the logical extension of his ‘harmless’ call for career-less, eternally pregnant, financially dependant moms, in service their superior man and God is obvious. It’s a charter for a return to more oppressive times, and it’s the thin edge of the misogynist wedge.
Hopefully women in this culture might see that if they see the speech (and him) ridiculed. I think when a negative mirror is held up to you about something that is more recognisably part of your own culture and identity that’s a more powerful call to wake up than critique of something you feel is ‘not like me at all’.
TLDR: it’s almost more important to call this out (not cancel it). It’s invidious ideology and we know where it leads. Too late to engage when the end point of legal oppression is reached.
I agree with you completely.
He should indeed be ridiculed. But he should not be fired or deplatformed, which is the knee-jerk reaction from a lot of people who don't understand why it's important he says what he wants.
Thank you for commenting, I think my point is getting missed by others in the thread.
Oh my god wait you mean religion dictates society? And religious ideas can lead to bigotry and oppression? Just like how Christians believe eve was created out of Adam, for Adam, to be his companion? You are spelling out why what he said is bigoted and still fail to understand. It is beyond me.
What? What are you even on about?
Bigotry- obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group. Oxford dictionary.
His speech was objectively bigoted. He assigned women their roles and claimed women have been told diabolical lies about finding fulfillment in personal achievement and success, due to their membership of a particular group and his unreasonable attachment to belief and his own opinion. The use of the word diabolical is extremely aggressive in demonstrating his perception of women pursuing work outside what is relative to men. He cannot conceptualize that another perspective is in existence; he cannot conceptualize a society where womens lives begin the day they were born, he can only believe that women are best at one thing and their lives begin relative to other people, invalidating female personhood as frivolous and unfocused and the path to an unhappy life, and he feels he must enforce this upon them. That is the definition of bigotry. Even if it was at a Christian university, where similar beliefs are to be somewhat expected, it was disgustingly inappropriate for a UNIVERSITY COMMENCEMENT CEREMONY. The entire thing was his political opinion framed as if it was fact. Such speeches should not be platformed, they directly contribute to the narrative of men owning women. Think of all the men clapping in that room, reaffirmed and further inspired to narcissistically dominate and feel entitled towards women’s confinement to the domestic realm while they are free to explore their personhood. Absolutely inappropriate, and absolute bigotry.
If he wants to have his own opinion I cannot stop him. But enacting that opinion on others, speaking with such authority that you must not be questioned, and telling a gender that has experienced violent systemic oppression to continue perpetuating the conditions that ensure their oppression IS bigotry, and is what is actually diabolical.
Can you quote him please? Can someone in this thread ACTUALLY do that? You're spouting a lot of nonsense.
I am not going to defend him. But I defend his right to say it. At no point did he say we should mandate women to the kitchen and force them to have babies. Did you read his wife's response? Do you think she is entitled to her own opinion or not?
What do you mean by his words being 'political opinion framed as fact'?
That doesn't even make sense.
People agree with him. You achieve nothing by silencing people you don't like - you force them underground, which is arguably far more dangerous, and how extremists organise.
If you read my comment, you see I did quote him, and highlighted the use of the term “diabolical”. Believing that women finding happiness in personal fulfillment is “diabolical” is bigotry on the categorization of gender, it is differentiation between groups and a dictation of appropriate interaction upon one in contrast to the other. I will copy again for you the definition of bigotry to reiterate how this is bigotry: obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group. Just because he did not say I hate women and want you to have no rights does not mean that this is not inherently prejudiced. The definition of prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
If you think my comment did not make sense, you simply fail to understand. This is also demonstrated by your confusion towards my saying his political opinion is framed as fact. In what world would that sequence of words not make sense. His speech was his opinion, political opinion, as social organization of men and women and lgbt rights are both historically and currently politically charged concepts. To clarify how men and womens societal organization is still relevant legally before you ask, would be in the form of abortion rights, constructing a legally solidified narrative where women do not have the right to control their body and are subjected to their bodily mechanisms over personhood and life experience. That is objectification, to value a woman as a female (as defined by her sexual capability) rather than a human (free to make her own decisions regarding her life experience). Harrison himself even recognizes this as political in discussing the president at abortion rallies and references many political opinions. He worded and expressed these opinions as if they are facts, objective laws of society, and that society would crumble in the face of anything else. This was the entire undertone of his speech, absolute correctness in opposition to the left, as outlined in quotes such as “bad leaders who don’t stay in their lane”, “degenerate cultural values,” and, most explicitly and evidently, in “The world around us says that we should keep our beliefs to ourselves whenever they go against the tyranny of diversity, equity and inclusion. We fear speaking truth because now unfortunately truth is in the minority.” He referenced political opinions as truth. This makes it clear that to Harrison, his politics are objective, they are fact. I will copy again for you the definition of bigotry as a reminder: obstinate or UNREASONABLE ATTACHMENT to a BELIEF, OPINION, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group. This in itself is not bigotry, but describes the process of his bigotry as outlined in the definition. In his absolute attachment to his views as truth, he is unreasonably interacting with his faith as he expects not only himself to subscribe to them, but believes the whole world should, as it is “degenerate” if it is anything else. He expresses political opinions that view individuals outside the status quo as abnormal, and he views those as factual. To define prejudice again: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience. He is bigoted in the way that he attempts to solidify this within his audience and enforce categorization on the basis of religion, “in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group”.
He says “I never envisioned myself nor wanted to have this sort of a platform but God has given it to me so I have no other choice but to embrace it and preach more hard truths about accepting your lane and staying in it.” This is the premise upon which he argues that many sociocultural interactions between men and women, lgbt people, and individuals in general are to be determined by a niche and an assigned role relative to the specific understanding he subscribes to. He emphasizes the phrase of staying in one’s lane multiple times throughout the speech, reiterating his intention to instruct his audience based on the social categorization he deems appropriate according to his beliefs. Again, this is unreasonable attachment to belief as he attempts to subject individuals under instruction on the basis of their membership of a particular group. This is prejudice, because he has preconceived ideas about how lgbt and women should INHERENTLY interact socioculturally, and perceive anything else as abnormal and invalid. To define prejudice again: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience. If he perceives his opinions as “truth,” then his attempt to confine ALL women to “their lane” under the premise of religion that is “unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group”.
He is entitled to his own opinion. That does not make his opinion not bigoted.
Do you think roe v wade got overturned because of groups of bigots bubbling with fury underground? Roe v wade got overturned because trump was elected into presidency and stacked the court with extremists. Trump got elected because he was vocally and proudly bigoted and inspired people to embrace their own internal bigotry. Trump quite literally incited a coup in his name because he tweeted “big protest in DC January 6th. Be there, will be wild!” which encouraged those who view their backwards worldview as under attack to defend it violently. Please name an underground extremist organization, in America, that has been equally as dangerous in the political climate.
You could just say you never read the speech. It's here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/nfl/article-13426137/Harrison-Butkers-speech-Kansas-City-Chiefs-star-faces-furious-backlash-controversial-graduation-comments.html
I never said the guy wasn't stupid and prejudiced. Many religious people are.
My point is, get over it, and accept that people in society like this exist and allow them the space to say their nonsense. If you don't like what he says, then go and write a counter speech and send it to some news outlets. If you don't like it, go down to your local churches and speak to some Christians and tell them why.
It's not illegal to say offensive things and it shouldn't be. If it upsets you, then you're pretty damn fragile, because nothing in his speech is remotely offensive. Controversial, sure. But it's luke-warm at best. Compare what he said against something like what the people in Times Square were saying after October 7 and you'll see the difference.
If you want me to admit he's a bigot, fine. He is one. But I don't believe he should face tangible punishment (being fired and deplatformed) for giving his (outdated, prejudiced) opinion.
If you think there's a short supply of liberals running the show at universities, you're living in a bit of a fantasy. It's 40-odd liberals to 1 conservative in an academic setting. There will be 40+ speeches in favour of the opposite of his message against his one.
Keep it in perspective and focus your attention where it counts.
I’m not arguing that what he said was illegal or that he should be kicked off the team. Even though I would personally enjoy seeing it happen, that would be hard to defend. This can’t be measured as hate speech, he’s not inciting violence or being outright derogatory, though you could maybe defend that with his lgbt points as he somewhat vilifies the community and our endeavors/proud existence. I still don’t think this would be grounds for his removal. I was only arguing that the way in which he expressed and enforced his opinions are bigoted by definition. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on its offensiveness and potential consequences. i happen to think that social conditions are worsening everyday and extreme opinions are more and more accepted in the general perception.
I’ve thought about that in typing my responses and reading yours, how if I were present for any commencement speech aligning with leftist ideals I’d probably be for it. I was upset with the USC situation cancelling the speech of a known pro-Palestinian. It’s tricky to navigate because we can’t say no politics in speeches (though USC just did), and of course we can’t say no religion in speeches, as I’d assume Christian universities would almost always recognize their faith in such ceremonies. Otherwise religion should obviously not be discussed. But I think overall the difference comes through in delivery and demonstrations of entitlement to one sole correct interpretation. This is obv theoretical but I can imagine in day to day commencement speeches, regardless of ideology, most individuals are more focused on drawing insight towards their perspective and offering audiences the chance to consider new ideas, rather than what I perceive to be aggressively instructing your audience into outdated social scripts.
I operate from a large anthropological perspective, so I just like to think about the way society and humans interacts. I happen to believe life, society, and culture at any given point are just collective jumblings of influences with equal and opposite consequences. These opinions just scare me as a gay woman as well and I can’t just let it go. I can’t deny them their space to hold such opinions, but I can talk about how I perceive them and and can call them gross and disgusting and bigoted in this sub. If that makes me fragile so be it. I personally don’t see weakness in fearing for the future validity of my identity, I’d fight for it. If you’re able to not let it bother you, and it brings you peace, I’m glad for you.
I don't disagree with you. I'm gay too.
My whole point is that if you curtail free speech, you curtail the fighting for the rights you hold dear to you. I do not believe that this man poses a threat to women and I think it's an overreaction. We can disagree on that.
There are far, far far worse things to focus on in my opinion.
I get that and understand your perspective, I’m sorry for my earlier harshness it was inappropriate and out of line.
I agree, I think he is entitled to his wrong shitty opinion 🤷🏻♀️. It makes me sick, but it is his opinion; I am more upset about the people at the university who thought of inviting him to give the speech.
Freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequence, and doesn't mean that people can't challenge opinions that they don't agree with: the right to do that is also freedom of speech.
There's also a valid argument made that the right to free speech isn't absolute: free speech crosses the line into hate speech has been demonstrably proven to be extremely harmful. One of the biggest and best examples/case stuides of this is the rise of Hitler and Nazism in Germany, but it's certainly not the only example either. Language can be an extremely powerful tool.
I don't think anybody is putting that in doubt. But he is an awful person with an opinion on a setting where a lot of people share that opinion.
I'm pretty sure it's a religious university. I'm not sure why people are surprised. If he can't say this shit at a religious university, where should he say it...?
Yeah, you are right. I don't get why people are so mad lol. That dude is an ass! but even assholes have opinions.
I think people are mad because he told women that their finding fulfillment in personal success is a diabolical lie at a university commencement ceremony, just a hunch tho! It doesn’t matter if the university is religious. The entire speech was his personal political opinion and is disgustingly inappropriate for a COMMENCEMENT CEREMONY
No way! Really? You are enlightening me :p I have said across all my comments that his comments are gross and he is an asshole -but- it is his opinion in a COMMENCEMENT CEREMONY at a religious university, which makes sense.
I mean you said in the comment that you don't know why people are so mad, by your own admission you can see why, he is gross and an asshole, so you can understand why people are so mad? It doesnt matter if the university is religious or not. To reference the question of the initial commenter, if not at a catholic university where else may he preach this- at church. In discussing women getting degrees, and addressing women seeking to celebrate their degrees on a day marked to celebrate, rhetoric on the futility of a degree and career in place of embracing the "most important title of all: homemaker" is disgusting nonetheless. The term "diabolical lies" referencing career and education for women is extremely aggressive and should not have been approved in the speech intended to celebrate such. Catholic university or not. It makes sense, but its disgusting. That's just my opinion.
Can you tell me exactly where he said he wants to take people's rights away? Like quote it please?
I never said I agree with him, and encourage people to call him out. But that is not what he said.
There are other religions that actually want to take your rights away and oppress women and kill gay people. And they're doing it right now.
A simple Google search would do you well.
https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/05/17/harrison-butker-speech-transcript/
I see you are very passionate about the principle of free speech and I'm not here to argue with you. I just have a little wisdom to offer to this situation: "smoke leads to fire" if we allow men to degrade women in a position of power and influence, it gives other men permission to do so. Men like Harry are the smoke.. we are trying to avoid a fire, my friend!
We women have fought hard for our rights (thanks to both men AND women fighting for us). We are talking many generations of women. So, while the reaction we are having may seem extreme, it's not. It's an absolute unwillingness to allow a man to step in and decide our life paths for us.
I hope this has given you a little insight. Yes, freedom of speech is a matter of principle, but this is a battle that goes beyond simple principle. It is personal to us. I hope you understand and thank you for listening to me!
You're really fucking rude.
And how ironic when you clearly can't understand the concept of free speech and the implications on society if we deplatform every person we don't like.
Get a life and read a book.
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