www.ign.com/articles/sonic-superstars-developers-interview
Sonic Superstars Developers Explain Why They're Finally Abandoning Green Hill Zone
The gameplay demo that’s been at Summer Games Fest has a fairly positive reception, so far. Pretty sure people are already going frame-by-frame with off-screen footage for comparisons, too.
If they can just give us a clone of the feeling of movement in Mania, that'll do.
They got it just right in Forces imo
Are you kidding? Forces was the worst it's ever been. You had no momentum at all. You just sped up and slowed down as you went through invisible triggers and Sonic was like a lead balloon in mid-air.
Nope, Forces was finally the game where you had decent control of 2D sonic lol. It was a joy to 1000G compared to how frustrating Generations was.
I guess we just gotta disagree on this. I replay the Mega Drive games all the time and Forces was still a billion light years away. Just not good enough, at all.
Username both checks out and doesn't check out.
Not once have I ever heard anyone say that Forces had good classic Sonic physics.
Because not once have you met someone who played Forces to completion.
Why would you need to finish the game to judge if the physics are satisfying? That's something devs usually do in cuboid test levels lol
Why would you need to finish the game to judge
You don't. The physics were satisfying enough to complete the game.
Meanwhile it took me around a decade to motivate myself to 1000G Generations.
Generations' physics were also terrible in their own way. It's not really the example one would use.
Generations' physics were also terrible in their own way. It's not really the example one would use.
It's the only Sonic game people keep saying is "excellent". Well that and Colours.
IMO Sonic (outside of Headcannon stuff) hasn't been excellent since Heroes, but if I was to rate how good the games were since, I'd say Forces > Generations > Frontiers > Unleashed > Colours > 06 > Free Riders
Yeah, exactly; you completing the game didn't make you like the physics, it was the other way around. Thus my confusion as to why you brought the completion of the game up, since that's an unrelated detail.
Yeah, exactly; you completing the game didn't make you like the physics,
I'm saying they were better and workable to the point where I was able to enjoy the game through to completion.
Generations physics were terrible and put me off the game, taking me years to find the willpower to come back to it.
Well I mean spin dashing and jumping mostly feels fine but some stupid reason they decided to add the speed cap from the original version of sonic 1 in which is really annoying
Pretty sure that speed cap was only when running, including in Sonic 1, which is fine for an exploration - centric mode imo
Yeah I know but the classic sonic gameplay at least to me feels a lot more fun when there's no speed cap like in sonic 2 onwards, just feels weird that they'd take a step Back like that
Sorry but no, the physics from Generations to Forces is a straight cliff drop
Not even close. Generations physics are flat out broken in segments, including a spin dash that works when it feels like it
Both Sonics feel great in Generations, sure you ain't mixing the two games up?
I went back and 1000G'd Generations and Unleashed recently (I lost interest when playing them closer to their release).
I disagree, it was ass in Forces, where I couldn't make fucking short and easy jumps in the bonus stages. This is actually because of engine changes made for Lost World that wasn't undone.
Generations was peak.
I find it hilarious that with so many games to grab a screenshot of Green Hill Zone from, they didn't bother to get one from an actual Sonic game.
I was expecting the Windows XP default wallpaper.
isn't that why they chose the image? as in, this is the classic location, when other games feature sonic this is how it's represented.
In which case why not show an image from the 1991 game?
It's a stupid editorial decision
I kinda disagree, especially because original Sonic is 4:3 it'd be hard to get a screen grab that shows a decent part of the level, let alone the whole loop which is pretty iconic itself. The Smash Bros stage does a fantastic job at putting a lot of the levels flavor and gimmicks into a single screen. I agree with the decision tbh
16:9 ports of Sonic have existed for years. Sonic Origins released less than a year ago and is 16:9.
I kinda disagree, especially because original Sonic is 4:3 it'd be hard to get a screen grab that shows a decent part of the level, let alone the whole loop which is pretty iconic itself.
Grab it from Sonic Origins then. At least that is closer to whatever the fuck that Smash Bros level is trying to be
It shows the Green Hill Zone unobstructed by hud or gameplay elements, has high graphical fidelity, is one of the first results on Google, and is faithful to boot. Most importantly, probably, usage rights that meant they could use it without any hassle.
All in all, an absolutely meaningless thing to get upset about. They even attributed it correctly.
It shows the Green Hill Zone unobstructed by hud or gameplay elements, has high graphical fidelity, is one of the first results on Google, and is faithful to boot.
So nothing like the Green Hill Zone all the others are based on and instead referencing an ugly rendition from Smash Bros. Got it.
Welcome to IGN, "enjoy" your stay
I'm interested in how co-op is going to affect the level design. An iconic part of Sonic levels are the parts where you're just going fast and zooming every which way, and often split into divergent routes depending on whether you made a jump or not, which is problematic for shared screen co-op.
Sonic 2 had co-op. P2 played as Tails. IIRC the camera centered on Sonic as long as he was alive, and Tails would auto fly to catch up as needed.
From the official website:
More Friends, More Fun: For the first time ever in a Sonic game, play through the entire campaign with up to 3 other players with drop-in and drop-out 4-Player Local Co-op.
Aw man, I would've liked to see online co-op even if it's shared screen. It didn't look like they were moving all too fast in the brief gameplay footage. I know I'll be able to use Parsec or Steam at least but hopefully it's not too janky.
I guess split-screen? Which... we'll see how that goes.
From the trailer it looked like it was everyone sharing the one screen.
I... genuinely can't picture how that'd work, but interesting! Sonic's had co-op before of course, but playing Tails was always a little meh because the camera has to focus on Sonic, so Tails would always get left behind and then have to fly back in before getting left behind again. And then in Knuckles' Chaotix you had the ring bands to keep the two on the same screen instead!
I'm interested in how co-op is going to affect the level design. An iconic part of Sonic levels are the parts where you're just going fast and zooming every which way, and often split into divergent routes depending on whether you made a jump or not, which is problematic for shared screen co-op.
Is that really the iconic part? That seems iconic only exclusively to the DIMPS games.
I feel like the odd one out who never played the classic Sonic games like I was speedrunning them all the time. I went about as fast as I did in a Mario game for the most part, unless I needed to go through the loops or ramps or whatever. They were platformers. So when it became all about GO GO GO it felt weird to me.
No, that's just how those games were made. I replayed Sonic 1 and 2 just recently and other than the occasional long straight to show off that Mega Drive "blast processing", they're platformers that reward precision jumps and being cautious. Nobody's sprinting at mach speed through the Marble or Labyrinth Zones.
I feel like the odd one out who never played the classic Sonic games like I was speedrunning them all the time. I went about as fast as I did in a Mario game for the most part, unless I needed to go through the loops or ramps or whatever. They were platformers. So when it became all about GO GO GO it felt weird to me.
That's because that's how they were meant to be played (I also did the same as you). The great thing about Sonic compared to Mario was that you could go fast once you knew the level well enough to memorise the layout, and get rewarded for it with lives and huge score, and maybe even reach otherwise unreachable areas.
Newer Sonic games, as in, Unleashed onwards, or Advanced onwards on portable, were literally just games of "run forwards, FAST" to the point where you would often get killed or break the scripted loops or whatever if you didn't. That includes Colours that's highly praised by Sonic fans for some reason (only Colours was worse since it kept breaking the momentum with the stupid whisps switching). It ruined the franchise for me. Forces at least improved on that in the classic stages.
I haven't tried Frontiers yet. But the focus on open world just makes it seem like it's the same, just not in a corridor, so I haven't prioritised playing it yet. Maybe in a sale.
Wait for a sale. I foolishly believed the good word of mouth and got it for full price. Lasted a few hours before I uninstalled. It's better on a fundamental gameplay levelnthan Forces, but it still feels like an unfinished tech demo.
Is that really the iconic part? That seems iconic only exclusively to the DIMPS games.
Not a DIMPS thing at all, this is a common theme among every classic sonic game. There's a great Super Bunnyhop video that goes over some of it, https://youtu.be/-kE9BR24XIw
I've played the games, I don't need some YouTuber to tell me otherwise
Okay then feel free to be factually incorrect.
I'm content being correct thank you.
I've only ever played the Genesis games and Mania and those games were packed with the segments I described.
They weren't, but sure.
Good. I'm sick to death of seeing Green Hill in Sonic games.
It was cool in Sonic Adventure 2, it stopped there. And the tease in Mania where you started in Angel Island (finally!) only for them to LOL NOPE you and throw you in Green Hill was just the worst. (yes I know they improved that a bit in a patch but it still sucked).
Funny thing is, the Mania devs wanted the game to be 100% new zones. It was Sega who mandated 50% two-thirds of the game be remakes.
There's 8 remade zones, and 4 new ones, so it's 2/3.
But I don't mind it, because the remade zones are good and original. And it redeemed Oil Ocean, and made the two Sonic CD levels, Stardust Speedway and Metallic Madness, more enjoyable for a traditionnal game (Sonic CD was way moe vertical and focused on exploration)
You're right, I've edited. And yeah, Mania was fantastic and their takes on the classic levels were damn good. Makes me so sad we aren't getting Mania 2 and instead getting Superstars.
I like that Sonic 1 had 1 stage, 2 and CD had 2 stages, 3 had 3 stages, and this true Sonic 4 had 4 original stages.
Oil Ocean is the worst part of Mania by far, I wouldn't call it redeemed at all
I'm totally fine with the remade stages, in fact I'm glad they remade them. I just didn't want Green Hill to be one of them for the umpteenth time.
Like, why not finally revisit Emerald Hill or Angel Island?
I’d love to see angel island, or maybe SA2 levels in this 2d space, like pumpkin hill zone or something less utilized.
Was very pleased to see Oil Ocean get some recognition. A very underutilised and unique zone.
Curious how exactly did a patch improve it?
Patch added a little bit of Angel Island to play in.
Originally it was just seen in the beginning cutscene and then never again
Oh that's so odd
Bssed on the trailer, they're now redoing Emerald Hill instead. Bold new territory for them. I mean, it's a slightly different share of green!
Honestly, I'm here for it. Emerald Hill is the better stage.
I'm glad they're finally abandoning it because we've been through that zone way too many times in previous entries
Can Sonic fans handle this? Are the developers going too far? Next they'll make Sonic's arms blue or something.
This is what the majority sonic fans have wanted for 5 years now
A slightly different green-hills-and-palm-trees-with-blue-ocean starting zone?
You reminded me of one of the best meta gags in the Sonic Boom Netflix show, where the gang are talking about an old game character, and go off on a pointed tangent about how the series sucked when it went 3D. Sonic then rants that they never should have changed the colour of the main character's legs.
They tried the blue arms with Unleashed. Was not well received.
I thought it was Sonic Boom, with the redesign. Unless you meant the werehog which is it's own bundle of questions lol
Yeah I was taking about the Werehog and his big bushy blue arms.
I’m excited for this, love sonic games that let you play as the rest of the cast too and it looks like they got the physics right from what I’ve seen.
I just hope the physics holds up. It's something Sonic Team has continued to neglect the importance of all these years in their own developed 2D Sonic outings, considering how the physics were (one) of the highlights of the original games. Even Generations had its fair share of wonkiness (classic Sonic's spin dash in that for instance.)