Why isn't this the solution for the martial/caster divide?

5th Edition

Now I know there have already been lengthy discussions about this subject in every medium where DnD is discussed. The simple fact of the matter is, Casters can make great martials, or replicate most martial abilities, but can also do a plethora of other things martials can't do (unless martials play a subclass/take feats that let them just pick which limited section of caster power they want).

I feel like the most obvious and fun solution to the martial/caster divide is just giving martials abilities that offer similar power or utility for casters, with the same room for shenanigans and flexibility, on similar levels. Hell, not every subclass needs as many options as casters have spells, so probably most of these abilities should be stronger than spells casters would get at similar levels. I am curious what the argument against such game design is, as I assume it has already been discussed before.

It is crucial that these abilities aren't just spells that are reflavored with the same resource cost (or just straight up left the same as is the case with Totem Warriors), because 1 - a caster can always just choose to get these spells as well and 2 - you then have to balance these spells with the casters in mind as well.

A lower level example of this would be letting Barbarian's get an ability similar to earth tremor (a first level spell that isn't even that great), but improved if it costs resources or just made resource free, which they can do by slamming their weapon onto the ground, or maybe even just as a part of going into rage. You can extend on this by letting them slam their weapon not onto the ground below them but onto the ground in front of them to create concentrated difficult terrain. Balance this ability, and it's progression, in relation to spells casters get around similar levels, like web, plant growth, black tentacles (however, again, improved in a way that reflects the class, as casters simply have these as options).

I'm not talking about damage (although as someone who loves Monks letting them use a non-concentration haste without the lethargy affect after 3 rounds for 3-4 ki would be amazing), just more options instead of damage, more stuff to think about for martials, in a way that fits their core fantasies. You can give Drunken Master monks, who gain proficiency in brewers tools and performance, an action they can do that inflicts a charm/poison condition on a number of enemies, fitting in with the core idea of the subclass.

I'm aware I'm still mentioning spells for reference, but I think starting to think of these abilities without reference to spells in conception is ideal. Aside from an argument against such game design, I'm also very interested in what people have as ideas for such abilities.

Edit: Core part of this I forgot to mention is, you'd want these abilities to scale similar to casters who can literally change reality at higher levels. Barbarian's moving mountains, Monks getting something equivalent to time stop at the same levels etc.

in DnDby boragoz

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20d

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xaeromancer

20d

The problem was that there was very little internal balance amongst all the powers and a big variation in what level X character could do, as in more than one level's worth of damage output/input either way.

There was also a lot of situational synergy, where the controller found it easy to push and the striker did a lot of damage to pushed enemies, but they both fall down when they can't push.

WotC looked at 3E and decided that what people liked was the system mastery angle and leaned into that.

Combat was also horrifically slow in 4E.

Budget-Attorney

20d

It can’t be overstated how bad combat speed was in 4e. I played a module as a new DM and ended up cutting everybody’s health to 40% just to speed things up. We still only would finish one fight per session

xaeromancer

20d

It's a skirmish game, not an RPG.

People need to go in expecting an hour long combat, because that was the meat of the game.

If you want social or exploration play, whoo-whee, you're SoL unless you like skill challenges.

cyvaris

20d

As someone who has DMed 4e since release, the skill system is literally no different than any other edition of D&D. The edition does lack "ribbon" features for classes, but a lot of that was moved over to Feats, which people "maximized the fun out of" by only going for combat feats.

xaeromancer

20d

It's pretty damn different to the thieves skills and non-weapon proficiencies of AD&D.