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Yeah I get a lot of it comes from a condescending nature but I literally gave up a ton of fun and big part of my life so 1) I could pay off my student loans (20k) and afford a car (15k) 2) buy a house. Once I got to Goal #1 this type of lifestyle just became a part of me and am now prepared to put 20-30% down on house. Just the thought of someone coming into my life and spending that hard earned money without attaching the same emotional value to it (let alone it’s likely more than my current gf has ever imagined having).
Why even get married, maybe just live together and keep finances separate like you mention. Some people do it…so one day when I propose it just becomes our money? It was “my” money my entire life until I suddenly decide I want to live with a girl the rest of my life. There has to be 85% alignment on what we’re going to spend on.
Of course if I buy a house tomorrow that liquid cash is gone and to an outsider yeah I have 100k equity but I certainly don’t have enough in a checking/savings to support a lavish lifestyle. Then we start from the bottom again trying to save, pay off the house all while sprinkling in some fun & vacation—not the other way around in my book.
Last controversial take, myself and a lot of men included don’t like that the odds are stacked against us and in favor of the woman (especially if w kids) in court in the event of a divorce. Not saying SOHM is easy by any stretch but they just get to walk away with half and we have to pay alimony. Marriage might be the biggest decision of one’s life and easily the largest financial decision you will make. Obviously a lot of good comes w marriage but those are the negatives.
I would feel awkward if a girl I was marrying had 5x the wealth I brought to the table. I wouldn’t start randomly ordering nice steaks or wanting a 60k truck just because we can afford it. This is all about values and less about mine vs hers.
100K in a HYSA? For the love of god why? If you’re not planning to make a huge purchase in the very near term then you’re just wasting any wealth growth you would make otherwise.
I put in a few offers in on a house last year and thought I was going to break lease to buy but it never happened. I have $120k between retirement & brokerage acts that’s invested in index funds so yeah it sucks I’ve had $ not invested but it’s gaining a risk free 4.6%. What if the market had gone down 5% that’s ~10% difference. Buying in 2yrs is the short-term…
Numbers are irrelevant. You have been together for a year and are considering mortgage and haven't had this talk yet?
You are not ready for marriage.
Guy has 200k and he’s looking down on people like peasants.
Chill dude, your life savings is somebody else’s crazy weekend. You need to be honest with your GF and take a hard look at what you want to be as a person.
Wait wait…..she OWNS a house? She has more money than you do!
Man I do hate when people use the term Own when the bank has more then half
She owns a house with less than 20k equity meaning the bank owns 170k of her house. I have ownership of all 200k of my retirement/savings accounts. I would say she could probably sell for 30k max over listing so that brings her total to 50k.
I’m not boasting about being super rich, for my age and pay range I do feel I’ve done a great job saving. Average savings & NW by age would back that.
Dude your whole outlook is wrong, the foundation of it
And planning for financial future is so important, it’s so important to be on the same page with your partner about it but the attitude you have, “I am and she isn’t how do I tell her what to do”
Fuck dude, you either know or you don’t, my suggestion is to “take a break” and bang a few chicks with way more money than you do. Older/younger ratio 6:2, I’m not saying not hot, they can all be super hot, but mostly older and the younger ones it dosnt matter how they made it.
That will fix you, gonna blow your mind to find out what hanging out with you is like
u/Speedhabit I went to dinner with her tonight and asked her some candid financial questions. I want to see if you still have the same opinion.
She told me at time of purchasing her house she took out a renovation loan for $30k to do all necessary renovations 2yrs ago (her house has probably gone up 50k in equity so net 20k gain). Her work doesn’t provide health insurance so she pays $500/mo. When paying for dinner she offered but I go no I’ll cover this you have to worry about affording health insurance (sarcastically) but she responds “yeah that’s $500 I could spend on fine dining” jokingly but shocking that’s where her head is at.
She told me she paid cash for her first ever car but most recent was her Malibu that she said was almost paid off but it had 70k miles on it so still had good trade-in value…she then upgraded to an SUV. She upgraded because “her dad gets a really good discount”.
I asked candidly about her parents retiring and she said they would like to but not sure if they can b/c they “weren’t offered good retirement matching for many years at the start” of working at their car dealership. I’m thinking you don’t need a company to match to start a 401k or save in general. Her dad owns a 60k truck and 40k boat.
Lastly, I pulled up a few houses I was interested in and there was one I liked but said would have to train the dog to stay in the yard. She goes a fence would help and you can just add the fence on to your mortgage. She also mentioned she wants to re-do her floors and get new appliances eventually—but I can tell she’s already house poor.
No I haven’t had any formal talk with her but I’m hinting at the fact that I don’t align with some things. I want your opinion…do these sound like tendencies that I can expect to be changed or is someone always going to live like this? Yeah I may get her to compromise in the short term but she may revert back to the new cars and notion that you can just live with debt (seems that’s what her parents have done). If I like everything else about her how much weight as an outsider or caution would you put towards these habits & overall mindset???
Dude, you need to bang someone with more money then you so you can understand how you are acting
It’s gonna be mind blowingly eye opening and really; if your like in love with this girl now it will provide you with the tools and quite frankly, the humility, to take it to the next level
You setting it up for her to leave you for the first person to treat her with respect, and that can be never, but 🤌
It’s not easy to find chicks with fuck you money where I am. And why do I have to go hang them? Haha I like this girl I just think she has some red flags mindset wise but I don’t know if I can really expect those to change. She’s going to have to want to change which means trying to educate her about personal finance indirectly like others have said.
Do you think what I mentioned above is reason for concern or am I overthinking? Are these normal habits for someone on the lower end of income and practically house poor?
And you are?
Let me clarify, she doesn’t need to change. If we want nice cars in the future we just save until we can purchase. What won’t fly with me is debt with 0 urgency or awareness to pay it off.
Yes I will also need to change and become a bit less uptight with money. When we go out I can’t fret over $25 entree and her getting $12 cocktails etc.
We both have to compromise I’m just worried she’s unaware of the dangers of being in debt. Her parents can’t retire (she told me this) on time and they have 100k worth of nice toys…you wonder why. That’s not mean that’s an observation.
Can't have made all that many poor Financial decisions to own a home, which is an appreciating asset that could be sold in 3-5 years for a large profit to either zero all that debt, or zero it and then some.
Even with a HELOC for renovations, some of those you just need to do. You'd rather replace your roof before a massive leak occurs and now you're doing mold abatement and paying thousands for that AND 15k for a new roof, other renovations bringing the building up in value.
To me your whole post reads of arrogance, you don't know her mortgage/heloc numbers, what she's paying for her car, but because she's making less and doesn't have 100k in savings like you've got she's got a bad track record?
Do you factor in she's not been pissing away 1600 a month in rent for how many years? All that money has been doing towards the house that when she does sell will very likely net a profit.
I think you need to reevaluate your views here, because I forsee you going in on your partner the wrong way and suddenly no longer having the problem of a partner with poor spending habits because you'll be single, which will honestly protect your finances if that's the first goal in life.
Yeah I completely agree on all that what I’ve mentioned in other replies is it’s the comments about wanting a new stove when her current works & looks fine. She’s referenced wanting a jet ski and I proposed getting the base model $7k and she said it’s crappy plastic that the going rate is anywhere $15-20k. She also upgraded her car from sedan to suv so payment could’ve gone up as much as $200 but I don’t know for certain.
Her behaviors in day to day life are pretty frugal and she lived at home for a few years to save up the money for a house—I don’t condone that.
Yes I’ve been looking to buy a house, only been renting at this price in this area for 1yr. Just signed another year lease because we didn’t find a house (she looked w me) so I realize it’s burning $. I think about this at least once a week lol. Close 40k over 2yrs that could’ve gone in to equity in an asset. It sucks.
I had a lot written but it was far too wordy.
I understand being in your late 20's and getting more serious about marriage and evaluating your partners, but you've only been dating a year, know so little about her finances, admitting to several key details supporting her "financial irresponsibility" being pure speculation. You've made up all these ideas that she's going to ruin your finances and all your years of frugality (that you admitted she also lives the same) with her vehicle and toy purchases. Smells like self sabotage.
But dude you are moving at Mach 3 and need to slow it down, just because she's not doing the DR methodology doesn't mean she's doomed to a life of being a ✨️poor✨️ she's just not that aggressive as you are about it.
If she was able to buy a house in the last handful of years and afford to put gas in a SUV, she can't be doing that financially horrible, and isn't burning 20k a year renting an apartment you'll never see any equity in.
Careful how you approach this subject, you talk to her how Dave talks to people who call into his show and you won't have to worry anymore.
Do yourself a favor, and never ever get married, and your savings and finances will always be safe
Now is the time to have any "difficult" conversation. Once you're married it's too late.
If it’s a dealbreaker have the talk it’s better to get it out instead of wasting both your time. If you both can move forward great if not it is what it is
You rent and she owns, and she’s the one who’s made poor financial decisions ? Ok
I didn’t condone the renting just the fact that she did a lot of renovations then all the sudden upgrades vehicles financing a larger car. I’m not sure how much equity is in the house it’s not 20%. DR would suggest getting to 20% to avoid PMI first before deciding you need a new vehicle. It’s just the thought process that I struggle to accept and understand.
I feel you, putting it that way helped me see it from your POV a little better. Your only option really is to play the long game and sell when/if you can.
I was over last month and she mentioned she wanted to get a new stove. It works because we’ve heated up food on & in it so I never asked the reasoning but seems odd. Again just finished 1yr of renovations including roof on a HELOC which definitely brought down her total equity and may have negative idk. Just bought a 26k car so payment could be anywhere from $400-800 and is mentioning stuff about the stove and a jet ski. She’s also said many times “I don’t want to live here long” bc she’d like to be closer to her parents. All this anecdotal evidence I’m thinking how ridiculous you just bought a home which is great, repaired the necessities, financed a brand new car and you’re still talking about upgrades or potentially moving. It’s not that any of these decisions were overboard it’s the fact she’s in debt and not sensitive to that one bit. Or at least that’s my big assumption.
I hate to keep looking for the negative because there’s a lot of positive I don’t mention here personality wise that matches with me which could make the decision tough if we figure out we are in fact too different financially.
I need to talk to her within a month very bluntly and respectfully. It’s just a few concerning comments.
I mentioned it’s a thing that the brides family pays for the wedding sarcastically and she made a big gesture saying “hah not mine”. I think they’re struggling financially but her father has a 40k boat and 60k truck. I’m not saying don’t buy the things you want but they may have overextended and that 100k could’ve turned into 400k invested/saved for retirement. That’s a big assumption and sort of rude to look down on her family without truly knowing but it’s a simple observation after her comment affirming their financial situation (or lack thereof)—they do drive expensive cars, live in a tiny home.
I’m really not trying to be condescending or judge mental but hearing her comments and making a few observations in person has led me to these polarizing thoughts.
Just a quick thought reading through this, Have you thought that maybe her dad also financed the boat and truck and he himself is also struggling in debt? For her it might just be a learned behavior/trait that debt isn’t as harmful as it very often is. Like you suggested, sit down with her and lay it all out on the table, what do you want your quality of life to be? Not in a general sense but in a day-to-day realistic sense. I agree that her not being sensitive to being in debt is a red flag, but it could also go the other way in which she is very confident in her ability to pay off the loans, even more so if she is going to be in law. It seems as though your biggest issues are with communication and expectations, not that you’re necessarily different financially. (to be determined)- and, also, I know it’s hard to not plan for the future, but also don’t forget to live in the moment and enjoy your life now. You’re 28 once, you’re 29 once etc. don’t think “oh by this age I’ll have this accomplished and have this and this.” - enjoy the journey and communicate, and then follow your heart.
Great reminder to live for now. Thank you!!
Don't get married or marry someone of your wealth and financial intelligence level. Or hide half of your assets.
The reason for the post is wondering if in fact someone didn’t marry their current/past partner of same wealth/financial intelligence did it turn out to be a success? Why or why not? And can you really expect people to change, I might think I’ll eventually be ok with my wife always having a car payment but what if it happens and I realize I’m not comfortable then that’s not a good situation. Just trying to learn both sides people that tried and succeeded and those that failed.
It’s not arrogant to tell her your financial expectations in a marriage. That’s called having a real adult conversation which there will be many more in the future on various topics.
Everyone is so scared to hurt each other’s feelings these days. Set your expectations. Show some compassion and compromise. Move forward together as a team.
I’ve always said it’s not mean if it’s the truth but I think other people here meant don’t come off as arrogant which I get. I don’t think they’re suggesting not having the conversation however a few have really downplayed the situation. Taking out a HELOC, upgrading to a new car all while continuing to talk about boats/jet skis in the future does sort of indicate a certain mindset to me. Her priority may not be to pay off debt and if she’s comfortable living with continual debt (people who lease cars every 3yrs) I really don’t think I can ever justify that even if we have the cash.
You should have a clear discussion with her not with reddit.
Love bears all things.
You should have a clear discussion with her not with reddit.
Love bears all things.
Family finances and economics are an important part of a marriage. You two will be going into what is basically a joint venture together called life. You ABSOLUTELY need to discuss finances and expectation before marriage, it is a key part of it along with all the other important conversations like kids religions and elder care. Do not go into a marriage without having a discussion with your fiancé but also don’t let finances be the only reason for the marriage.
Why marry? What will that add to the relationship?
Stupid comment.
Do you have an answer to my question?
If you can’t answer that question yourself you’re a very sad individual.
So you don't have an answer, OK then
So you don't have an answer, OK then
So you’re just a truly miserable person. Okay then.
You can't answer a simple question and make rude assumptions based on that.
Last time I'll respond to you, have a great day, typical writer
Married people can qualify for higher income thresholds, tax deductions, and tax credits.
I know three couples personally that got divorced for the tax benefits with children.
The only things marriage honestly makes easier is buying property jointly and health benefit plans through employment.
Outside of that, there's nothing beneficial to filing the paperwork with the state.
Be real: if you get married, would you feel comfortable liquidating a quarter of your HYSA to immediately pay off her car?
Would you also feel comfortable if she started spending like $1000/month - coming out of a joint account your salary funds 2/3rds of - on silly stuff? House decorations, make up, overpriced smoothies, whatever it is she is into.
Or would you feel resentful?
A conversation about finances is good but if you can’t make peace with your differences in attitude you’re going to have a bad time.
I would pay off the car under the contingency that she set aside the same $ payment per month and invest in the stock market up until the value of what I paid off…just for the principal of 1) having discipline and 2) watching her $ grow and seeing the power of being debt free. No debt you can invest more heavily into the stock market as well as afford luxuries like a jet ski.
$1000/mo would be overboard yes I would feel resentful. Her attitude and current habits don’t signal that type of spending.
What I wouldn’t like is if I paid off her car and as soon as she had $20k saved she went and bought a jet ski. There’s no underlying learning or discipline. That’s what we’ll discuss in the conversation.
I’m not hearing good things from your phrasing.
After your wedding it wouldn’t be you paying off her debt as a favour to her, that you impose contingencies and conditions on, it would you both paying off the debt you’d both have, even if it was caused by a decision she made by herself and the money was all made by you. It also wouldn’t be her money growing from stock market investments, it would be the both of you’s money.
The contingency you suggested seems more appropriate for one of your future adult children. Building financial discipline in marriage comes from not making the same mistake again once the marriage has started, unless you both agree on it. The start of the marriage is a clean slate and any mistakes you make from then on are on the both of you. Unless one of you lied or didn’t consult the other on a big purchase or something.
As DR himself says, if you earn more money you don’t get more votes.
I’m sure you’re a good person and everything, but are you sure you’re up for the financial side of marriage?
Yes it would be both of ours and I’m all for a joint account. However, what I meant is we also keep a joint brokerage account and $400/mo car payment she had before marriage would go into investments from her physically transferring the $400 (so it feels like she’s the one doing it). The joint account would have both our direct deposits.
I do also believe in having separate accounts. Each of us keeps a 3mo emergency fund based on individual salary and we use those accounts to personally allocate funds (monthly) for what we each want to buy in future. For me it’s golf I pay $4k a year and for her it would be a jet ski or a boat. I think that’s fair just so that hobby money is shielded from any potential overspending or overdraft of the joint account.
I saw your other thread yes I would 100% be open to a used jet ski. She told me jet skis ran $20k and I asked why the base model $7k new wasn’t enough…she responded “well it’s made of cheap plastic and engine isn’t as good”. I brushed it off and changed the topic but in my head was thinking “if you can’t afford it you can’t get it” I’m not sure why people think they can finance their way into things they don’t really need. All I’m misaligned with here is (potentially) her mindset of how and when we buy things we want.
I just don’t ever want to be in debt other than the house. That shouldn’t be hard for someone to understand but yes I do need to work on the hers vs mine asset situation heading into a marriage (we, ours, together etc.).
I need to be with someone ~3yrs before marriage this was just me thinking ahead so if she’s in fact not right I can make that decision now. Thanks for the insight
Yeah I’m all for separate accounts on the side too. My husband and I never bothered closing the personal accounts we had before we got married, and it is nice to have a bit of your own money you can do truly whatever you want with, and not have to check to make sure the balance is sufficient before shopping in case the other person bought something expensive and didn’t top it up.
But those are spends on the level of McDonald’s, a pair of shoes, a train ticket. Not 20k jet skis lol
Yeah it sounds like your values might not align enough but it’s good you’re thinking about this early. Better now than when you’re already married!
This sounds more like a values issue to me than a money issue. Do your values align? This is what’s important to ask yourself.
This. They are never going to see eye to eye on finances and that can wreck a marriage. Not worth it to try to make her change, plenty more fish on the sea.
Kid. You need to grow a pair. You and your partner will grow together and learn to live together. Share your goals with her and find a middle ground. You are doing just fine. The hardest step is getting to 100k by 30 and you have already done that.
You should never be "scared" of getting married. If you can't confidently and without judgement have a conversation about your two's future together, then you are not ready to get married.
Also, nothing you noted seems like a "stupid" financial decision. The car isn't great or optimal, but it's not some huge stupid decision. You seem more to just be judging her family and wanting to brag about how "awesome" you have been financially.
Talk to her about how you see your future with her and how you both can work together to build wealth. See if she starts implementing better practices. If she does then marry her. If not then kick her to the curb and thank your lucky stars you dodged a bullet.
Talk to her.
My husband had significantly more debt than I did when we got together. Most of it was from poor money management. He was happy to make changes and let me take the lead on our finances.
You're 26 and have $100k in a HYSA? Why are you in a DR sub?
How do you think he got that 100k? Lol
Living within his means lol
But cant she say the same thing about you? She can say i own property and he doesnt, some people do like to buy nice things withthe money they work hard for theres nothing wrong with that
You’re not special. If you like the girl these relatively minimal ‘bad decisions’ shouldn’t be an issue.
I would disagree with you. Liking someone with bad habits around a value to one’s life is a huge red flag. Say you saved your money for yrs and love your partner. The money is a security but the now marriage is struggling because the frugal one is loosing the security to established and known bad habits. This may lead to a divorce and a loss of 1/2 whatever’s left.
Your thinking is very sea level.
I’m trying to make sure OP doesn’t end up alone like you.
That’s pretty rich coming from you 🤣
Son, your mother and I are worried about you.
Good luck with your transition
Thanks sister
I will pray for you, you’ve obviously made poor choices without learning or growing.
Can I recommend you read body keeps the score. You may want to indulge yourself in loving yourself.
26k on a car is really on the lower end these days.
Totally it’s not like it was a Lexus and over a lifetime 26k is nothing for dual income couples. It was more the logic of the decision given outstanding balance on HELOC. And the few comments about jet skis after purchasing the car a few months ago…but maybe the jet ski dream will fire her up to get out of debt and then save to pay cash for a jet ski. Idk too many unknowns I’m just overthinking per usual
1 year bro? Really? Dont marry anyone you can live without
How does it bring you back to the second step? Second step is "pay debt except the house". What debt does she have beside the house? Sure there is the car but you can pay that off together pretty fast. You re mixing things if you get married, not my money is mine and I pay her debt with my hard work. So you ll be both at step 3-4 with already a house to build wealth. Yes, you might be bringing cash but she is bringing a property investment and the knowledge that comes from having done that? Sounds like you really look down on what she s done and high on what you've done. I mean having 100k randomly in a hysa can be looked down also by some people 🤷 I don't I'm just saying noone does things perfectly and what you describe of her is far from completely irresponsible financial behavior while you're the latest financial genius of the universe!
Yes coming from blue collar she might have had a different approach to things. I know a decent amount of blue collar people that are legit rich from properties only. Wouldn't know how to open a hysa. But they can take care of a house so well that maintenance is a lot cheaper that to the average mortal. Best way to accumulate wealth is to focus on where your strength are at. Don't dismiss that you will yours benefit from her handy family if you marry her! It goes both ways. It might be very important in the culture of her family to access home ownership and you can't just dismissed soemthing like that just because it isn't for you.
But really here I would mostly try to introspect a little why it sounds you assume she is stupid in her choices and look down on her like that if you want her to be your life partner and maybe the mother of your kids . Yes Dave has steps and she didn't follow the order. But he isn't the voice of absolute truth neither and it's not like she has 50k in credit card for buying shoes....
You sound like youre scared of "explaining to her why she is dumb and should handle money the way you do". Not trying to come to "understanding how she views things from a point of view of respect and figure out together way for things to work out for both of you". It's not a competition. It's a partnership.
Mariage needs a lot of talking and communication all the time and it needs to always come from a place of respect and where you value each other and never think you're better than the other. Thats going to be the most important part of your union, over any debt or any difference in opinion. If you don't feel that way you are not ready, evaluate the relationship very very carefully. Down the road, divorce will cost you a lot more than all you described 😁😜
I think the house was a great purchase for her and the renovations most of them were needed so all good there. I just struggle to see why she needed to go from a cheap sedan to a fairly expensive new SUV…I just want to find out her mindset and decision making process. Not that I know she’s like this but if my partner wanted to buy new cars every 5yrs and keep a consistent car payment I would feel pressured to drive beaters to free up more for retirement, kids or just vacation saving. I admit if she’s the one always getting the nice cars and I have to drive the beaters it would kind of rub me the wrong way because we’re misaligned in priorities. That’s not the case bc I have yet to talk to her it’s just me speculating the worst possible outcome—I know it’s not an optimistic mindset :(
I read through most of your comments and I just want to state a few things back to you that you said- You pay 4k for golf per year; you object to her driving a newer car because you’re worried you will have to drive an older car the rest of your life; her stove “works” so doesn’t need to be upgraded (the way this was phrased makes me wonder how old it is, does it have hot and cold spots)
To be honest… you sound on the edge of having some control issues. And that’s not to say that you’re completely wrong about some of the decisions, like a Jetski is by definition a frivolous purchase. But you don’t have firsthand knowledge of her budget, maybe she spends almost nothing on eating out, maybe she doesn’t have student loans; the point is, the way you spoke about paying off her car for her was very condescending and kind of a red flag. It might be better to work on being more humble and then find a partner who is naturally more frugal.
Yes can’t deny much of what you said, I pay 4k a year in golf. If she wanted to buy a $7k jet ski or snowmobile etc. I would be completely fine. I challenged WHY $20k? Again it may be how she grew up vs me putting a different value on what we could do with the $13k savings there. Eventually my golf fees will amount to $20k so there’s a very realistic and valid counterargument for buying one—just not when her car isn’t paid off and still paying PMI on the house. I’m debt free can afford the golf each year in cash.
I grew up on one household income, my mom was a SOHM and I want my wife to be the same. If she has extreme spending habits then we won’t be able to save and buy nice things for our kids which is what I value. I don’t personally need a lot to be happy. I live on about 40k/yr.
I will say my dad has always been VERY judgmental of rich families and kids that get handed everything. Most people in his neighborhood bought their kids cars & pay for their vacations. I was probably the extreme in the other direction—quit a sport in high school bc I liked working & getting paid. Worked 60hrs a week for 4yrs of hs, always had an internship or summer job during college summers (no vacations) and besides golf never really spent my money elsewhere. I realize I gave up some fun in my early years that I’ll never get back and she may view that as a life that’s not fun. I can be fairly quick to judge and need to work on that…curious as to what she’ll say when I present this modest lifestyle I seek to live. She may think I’m a complete loser and then we’re not right for each other.
Pretty much the only benefit of those sacrifices is it’ll take my friends another 7yrs to save up for a house whereas I’m ready now. All tradeoffs and I do really want to come to a compromise with her bc she has other qualities that I haven’t found in women thus far in my dating life.
Oh boy. “What WE could do with that 13k” It’s not your money. It’s hers.
“I want my wife to be the same” Does she get input?
“My dad was VERY judgmental” And unfortunately his voice is in your head and coming out of your mouth.
Break up with this poor girl or at least show her this post.
Pfffffew that sounds so much better for your relationship ❤️
Yeah I would try to open the discussion and approach it first from a place of trying to understand first if it's really important to her to have an suv (she might have just done what a usual without further questionning ) and why is it important. Come from a place of discovering your future wife. I would also share why suv don't matter to me without trying to have her change her mind.
At the end what you will really be looking for is not for her to drive a sedan but to identify what's the monthly budget associated to her driving what is important to her to be driving. And eventually a monthly number that will be a compromise between what you're willing to pay and what matters to her. Making sure it comes from savings and not debt/loan is just going to be an accounting trick since you saved some cash on your end already.
Just try not to judge and embrace your differences. Everyone has their thing they spend money on that other people wouldn't get. Like having pets, traveling, having an extra bedroom, having nice furnitures, nice clothes, spending on video games, etc... If for her it's having a suv rather than a sedan, well be prepared that it might be who she is. As long as you ll find a monthly cost number that you can live with, it will just become part of the ynab/spreadsheet budget that you ll share together once you married anyways. You ll just "save for the next one" rather than pay the debt of the previous one. Which you would do anyways since you d need a car anyways. It's just the number is going to be higher because of what matters and is important to one of you . Like maybe the grocery number could be high if only eating organic food mattered to one of you 🤷In every couple the other one is going to spend some amount of money on something that you re like "yeah, I wouldn't personnally". As long as you agree on the top limit of that amount, the couple won't be hurt and you ll be able to retain autonomy and certain freedom of being yourself .
Hope it makes sense and good luck to you guys!
Ps you can also see if you can get compromise on electric or hybrid so at least the gas mileage is good and you're saving on gas. And helping a tiny bit the planet 🌍
You’ve been dating for 1 year. This is still the honeymoon stage of most relationships. Marriage shouldn’t be in the discussion right now. If you two don’t see eye to financially while dating, it won’t get any better if you marry.
Owning a piece of real estate is more responsible than renting and paying into someone else’s equity. One could say that she is in a better situation than you. She isn’t putting $1600 into someone else’s pocket, like you.
You make more and are more educated, as you stated. Are you expecting her to further her education to be on the same educational level as you? Education is great but it won’t guarantee she will make more money, not to mention the cost of attaining said education.
You can do this three ways. You can pass on marrying this girl and continue on until you find them that is financially responsible Or You can have that difficult conversation and see if she steps up to the plate Or You can just take over the finances inside of the marriage. Maybe she has strengths in other places where you have weaknesses. And this may be the strength that you bring to the table so you take over the finances and she benefits from your financial intelligence
How did she afford a house if she’s so terrible financially? She might not do things the Dave Ramsey way but honestly I don’t see this as one person is financially responsible and the other isn’t. Please don’t go into the conversation with the mindset of “I’m right, you’re wrong”
Info: do you know she is in over her head in debt or does she simply carry more than you are comfortable with? There is a lot you are leaving out here. Yes, she makes less than you, but I doubt she could rent for much less than she is probably paying on her mortgage, and it is an asset. IDK about her car but that is a reasonable price for a newer car and it makes sense for a young woman to need something reliable. She may also have earning or career growth potential you are overlooking. Combining households means shared savings for you both. I have been married a long time, and I am sorry to say you are throwing up all kinds of red flags here. Maybe you two should take it down a notch and go to counseling.
u/Wonderful-Teach8210 I went to dinner with her yesterday and asked her some candid financial questions to get some more information.
She told me at time of purchasing her house she took out a renovation loan for $30k to make necessary repairs. Her work doesn’t provide health insurance so she pays $500/mo.
Here’s the breakdown piecing it together: Take home: $3,000 Mortgage: $1300 HOA: $220 Health insurance: $500 Car: $400
The car and mortgage is an estimate bc I don’t know how much equity she has in either. The above financial picture would leave her with ~$500 cushion without factoring in food.
Does this now classify as “in over her head”? I have no clue if she’s carrying credit card debt but the above doesn’t account for food, dog, or car insurance monthly. Maybe I just need to respectfully ask her?
If this is the case I also want to ask why she’s thinking about jet skis/boats/new appliances etc. Dave would scream and say “you can’t see the inside of a restaurant for the next 3yrs”.
I get it it’s not ideal but how many people entering a marriage for the first time have no conflict and no red flags. I think it’s ok that we might both be on the extremes and a simple compromise will fix the issue.
Well, unfortunately the red flags I'm seeing are all yours. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. It seems like you want her to do all the compromising because you think you are right and she is wrong. That isn't healthy, sustainable or fair to her. Most people who get married and stay married have minimal conflict and zero red flags going in. Marriage exacerbates whatever is already there. So if you are already struggling with this big of an issue a simple compromise is not going to make it go away and both of you will be miserable. She has the absolute, unquestioned right to live and conduct her financial affairs however she damn well pleases. And so do you. But you shouldn't try to get her to dance to your tune. Good luck to you both!
Well yeah if she tells me she wants to upgrade cars every few years and plans to buy a boat and or jet ski then I have to say she’s not the right one. I won’t stay with her and demand she change to my tune that’s not what I said. If the compromise is she keeps her car for 10yrs and buys new every 10yrs that’s very reasonable. That would be a good compromise. In regards to boat/jet ski I’m not sure what a fair compromise would be…maybe have her setup a separate account from our joint and start saving until we can pay cash. Might take 10yrs, if instead she resists and wants to finance to get a boat within the next 3yrs of my life then I’m out.
Would a compromise on the jet ski not just be… buying a cheaper jet ski? You don’t have to get the 30k ones. You can get a second hand one for like 5k, sometimes less. You could also just rent one every time you go out on the lake/ocean if there’s a place that rents them by the hour (there probably is) if the ownership aspect isn’t important to her.
But yeah my dude, you don’t sound ready. Where would she save the money from? Just her salary? What happens if she quits work to have a baby - does she never get her jet ski?
I’d really do pre-marriage counselling. Not everyone needs it but you do
I'll be honest... It sounds like you still have no idea who she actually is. You should probably get to know her more and talk with her directly about things and address your concerns. Either the relationship will end, or you guys will actually get on the same page and hash things out. Making big life decisions like getting married before even addressing any of these things with her is a recipe for disaster. I agree with other posters to pursue marriage counseling before getting married.
Hold off. Have the talk. What’s the 100k for?
The 100k was liquidated from the stock market 1yr ago. 2yrs ago I moved back to the current state where I grew up, rented 1yr with anticipation to buy a house…well I put a few offers in and didn’t end up getting what was in my range so it’s staying in HYSA at 4.6% to hopefully buy a house in next 2yrs.
I'd say selling stock last year was a really bad financial decision. You're not as clever as you think you are.
I put an offer on a house I thought it was going to be accepted and needed 85k for a down payment. Dave says if your timeline isn’t 5yrs then put $ in money market accounts if you plan to use it for a down payment. It may not have been smartest but it was risk free 4.6%
Ahhh okay. Well if 100k is what you plane for downpayment and fees. Invest the rest
Don't get married.
I don't care what anyone says, the power imbalance is too great. It will be exceedingly difficult to resolve this once married and there are not enough protections. You are almost in prenuptial territory.
One of you will be resentful. It is unlike that YOU will have any influence or control over her view or personality toward money and are will likely wish for you to view finances more like her.
This will be emotionally and financially costly.
I highly recommend trying to be brave in this situation and do not let love blind you.
I do understand what I am saying.
As an impartial observer, I ask you to please consider your situation and not to rely on chance and emotion for your future.
So you’re essentially saying people don’t change and she my deceive me into thinking she’s onboard then revert back to fancy toy living once there’s $ in the bank? She doesn’t have those values I know she wouldn’t do that but still she might tell me owning a jet ski or boat is an absolute must at some point and I have to think about that. I pay $3k for golf every year so that will eventually add up in 10yrs probably the cost of a boat.
Has she ever actually said she wants a boat or let skis?
Yes she told me yesterday when we hung out I made it a point to ask causally. I didn’t further the convo because I want the financial decision to be a sit down planned conversation between us
Any marriage or long term relationship where one party is trying to fix the other person is likely not going to result in anything durable or happy.
I think what's likely best is for you two to part ways as amicably as possible and for you to find someone who is in a better financial position than yourself with the same principles of personal finance.
You need to get on the same page or at least in the same chapter concerning finances before you marry or you will be having some difficult conversations and op may find himself paying for things he doesn’t want
If it makes you feel better when I got married I was fairly fresh out of college, with a pretty big student loan, starting my career and ended up meeting my husband when he was in a really rough point in his life. He had a credit score of 400, no savings, getting paid under the table at a dive bar. His family was no support and made it a lot worse by putting his name on bills and then not paying them timely (we love in-laws 🙄). After job hopping he finally got a good job. We've worked hard to pay off my loans, his credit card/medical debts, and now the only thing we owe on is his car and his credit score is now over 700 and that was all in the last 3.5 years. We are now saving for a home and our pre approval went up because we have such a low debt to income ration. Having the conversations and being clear about what you expect/want is key. Timelines and planning also help. You just have to note her willingness to learn and listen. My husband didn't want to lose me and fight over money so he learned. Took a bit, but we're doing fairly well now.
Look, marriage only works with open and honest communication, so it's better to start now and talk about your financial philosophy and goals, not dissing hers. When she hears what you've done, she'll either say "wow, help me do this," or "wow, I could never live like that." Either way, you'll have your answer. And breaking up with someone over this is not a mistake. Money is the #1 problem in relationships.
Marriage is always risk and it's important to understand that. Even if the odds of failure are hypothetically low, you are taking a risk for a shot at more happiness.
In my opinion when you approach marriage the most important thing is having agreeance on long term goals like children, where you want to live, what financial priorities you have.
Dave Ramsey isn't for everyone. I personally think most of his actual financial advice is not great but I like his emotional focus on financial education. So approaching it as I know more than you is a bad idea. You should ask them what they envision the financial situation would look like when married. Everyone needs a system.
But your potential spouse doesn't even seem that bad off. She just needs to offload her house and she's in a relatively decent spot if she doesn't have credit card debt. Sounds like if she just made as much as you the car and home would be reasonable and she'd have more savings. So are you really just mad she doesn't earn as much as you?
Nothing wrong with how you feel. I would have a conversation with her to get clear on each of your values around money. Better doing it now before marriage and kids tbh. Even thought you have more savings she has equity in her home and combining noth can be a good situation. If you are the real batman, then you would have no problem bat manning up and being a provider to your family, if that's what you want. If not that's ok too. Just don't rush into marriage thinking these problems will be magically solved
Look, I think there's probably more context here that responders to your post would benefit from. I would recommend that you two go to couples counseling prior to marriage. This exact scenario happened to my friend except she was the frugal one. She had several conversations where she discussed the values she has with money and showed her husband a plan for financial independence. He is probably more frugal now than she is (he is crossing the thin line of frugal and cheap) so it does happen.
I would caution using statements like calling yourself the more financially responsible one because it's a judgment statement. It would alienate her from the positive conversation you want to have and wouldn't achieve your desired outcome. I think you can see where she has had positive contributions financially, too. She owns her own home, did DIY work to keep renovation costs down, and she works.
You can still achieve financial independence and have the type of lifestyle she'd like with having a truck, boat, and other "toys". You can buy them used and sounds like her blue collar family has the skillset to improve their condition, which can translate to earning equity on future investments you make.
Even if you go back a step or two on DR, you'll also be compounding your two incomes together so you're likely to progress to the goals more quickly. You just have to come to an agreement of some kind to blend your goals.
I know Dave pushes marriage, but I believe that there is value in cohabiting first (while keeping assets/accounts separate). I feel like you don’t truly know a person until you’ve live with them for some time first. Then you can decide if you want to marry them. A lot of divorces could be avoided if people lived together for a year before getting married.
I’d say that if you’re considering marrying her and are on the fence about finances, move in with her and see how it goes. If you find out that you’re financially incompatible, then you’re both free to go your separate ways with neither of you losing anything. Just don’t co-sign anything or merge accounts/assets.
She is still very young and immature financially and that's ok. Try giving her a book written by Dave and tell her that it's one of your favorite books and you're curious to see what she thinks of it. Perhaps that will inspire her and future productive conversations.
You sound like a “my way or the highway” fella. Marriage is about compromise and this will be your first test as to if you can do that. If not then your marriage will fail just based on that. Can’t just expect her to do as you say, you will have to find middle ground. If that’s not something you can do, you should go find someone who already has the same values as you.
I think I can come to a compromise after long discussions and thought. No one teaches you how to behave in a relationship it’s usually trial by error and I haven’t been married yet in my life thus I’m requesting this advice. I know I’m not perfect and not expecting someone to change for me but if that SO fails to comprehend the math behind debt/investing/compound interest/delayed gratification then personally yes I’ll have to find someone who already aligns.
I don’t understand why you’re picking her life apart the way you are but based on your user name (the real Batman) I’ll just assume you are self absorbed.
I am nitpicking looking for a reason things could not work or create strain. Doesn’t mean it will or she will think this way when I talk to her these are just my assumptions on how I think she might respond. I’m using her family as a reference and some specific comments she has made to formulate a scenario. Your advice might be don’t do that go talk to her but this is such a hot topic that I want to do it right, you’re giving me this advice because if I had the conversation 3mo ago I probably would’ve come off as “I’m doing it according to rules and you’re not”. Hence the post so at least spare me on that front…
Agreed. This girl should run.
Run the other way.
Do not start a conversation about money management, especially if it leans toward trying to teach her how to manage her money because your way is better.
Start off talking about how you envision your life in the future. What type of lifestyle do you want? Be a homebody who stays home and cooks and invites friends/family over, or someone who likes to go out to eat and socialize? Someone who likes to travel frequently to far places, someone who likes to camp or take closer trips, or something in the middle? Someone who likes new vehicles every few years or someone who wants to drive a vehicle until the wheels fall off? Someone who is interested in high end designer clothing, accessories, furniture etc; someone who only wants to shop at thrift stores, or something in the middle? How do you envision life in retirement?
This should be multiple conversations. Once you get an idea of lifestyle preferences and goals, then begin to discuss how to meet them. This would be the point where you would recommend books, DR, etc.
I had a friend who didn't mind carrying debt as long as she could pay her monthly obligations and still save. Her boyfriend proposed but said he wouldn't marry her until she was debt free. She said to hell with that; I am a grown independent woman with a good job and don't ask him to pay for anything. They broke up and honestly he lost an incredible person because he made an ultimatum rather than discussing it with her and coming to a joint decision about handling finances.
You’re absolutely right. It’s astounding how rarely people actually communicate openly, instead it’s “do it my way or we’re done!” Which is a key red flag anyway.
My fiancé was afraid to invest in equities. When we discussed money and the future, her preference was to put money in the bank and I wanted to invest. We talked about it at some length including our goals. She was willing to listen to the potential growth and I listened to her concerns about losing money. We had to get premarital counseling in order to get married at our church, which helped a lot.
So we compromised, kept more in savings than I wanted and we invested after that. That was in 1999. Thankfully she didn’t freak when the market dropped (any of the multiple times) because we had built that security. Now we’re able to do pretty much anything we want (obviously up to a point) and accomplish our long term plans.
Going to work every day to pay off your wife’s debt that is now “our debt” is a reasonable thing to do to make your future life together better.
Going to work every day because your wife keeps borrowing more money and making more unnecessary purchases can kill a marriage.
It’s ok that she’s in debt now. And real estate debt is less insane than other debts. And her car is a little abone Dave’s recommendations but not too far off.
You should definitely be on the same page about money before getting married.
Is she Dave-ish where she uses debt, but makes aggressive payments and has some savings on hand? Or is she completely out of control and maxes out every credit card and never makes more than minimum payments and barely has enough in her account to pay next month’s electric bill?
Also, you might ease into the discussion slowly, and let Dave be the bad guy—don’t tell her your way is right, or that you know everything—tell her you’ve been listening to this radio guy, and that his plan works for you, and that it’s something important to you and maybe ask her to take a listen. Then, if she disagrees, she’s mad at Dave and not at you.
You’re afraid to sound judgmental but you ARE. You have a Roth and a 401k. Who cares?! She owns a home while you throw your rent money down the toilet every month. She worked to fix that place up with her family that you judge and talk crap on for their journey. If I was her and you asked me, I’d flat out refuse to marry YOU. You think bc you bring some cash to the table that that’s all you need to contribute. If you have kids will you be paying for the damage to her body? Bc she brings that to the table as well. Quite frankly NO amount of money YOU bring to her table will ever be enough bc you sound arrogant af.
I think getting some understanding before marriage would be great. On the flip side, there are some advantages to being married financially. If you moved into her townhouse, your 1600 in rent would go away, bills would be split in half, and usually car insurance is cheaper if all on same policy. I also found with being married that cooking for two was easier and less likely to go out to eat.
Yes dual income and combining powerful habits goes a long way. I’ll always be the one who doesn’t eat out as much in a relationship but I like to cook. My current gf hasn’t cooked me one meal since we started dating, I’ve had her over for plenty and I’m fine taking that role to a certain extent. There’s no excuse not to learn—in other words anyone can learn to be financial responsible, cook, clean, work hard regardless of gender. Living alone has forced me to develop some of these skills I otherwise wouldn’t have.
Bro, you haven’t had one nice thing to say and now you call her your “current gf”. Like what the fuck just go be single. She deserves better.
This wasn’t supposed to be a list of the good v the bad this was me nitpicking the one negative I see from a habits perspective. We just spent the day yesterday walking our dogs and making ice cream then relaxing to end the night—it was great. I enjoy her it’s just this one part of our lives is secret we haven’t openly discussed finances much. I’m building a worst case scenario and seeing if that is a dealbreaker. Best case scenario would obviously be we have a conversation and none of this is even an issue that I’m making it up to be.
Were you doing all that at her house or your rental?
I rent a 3b 1 1/2ba townhouse so it’s big enough to host. She was over at my place yesterday I drove us & the dogs to some trails nearby then came back for dinner & made ice cream. We switch I hang at her place a lot bc she has a better neighborhood to walk the dogs. We’re 1mi away from each other
I noticed how you edited the post to now say she owns a small townhouse. Before it said she owned her own home. Now you make a comment that yours is 3 bedrooms. Like it sounds to me like you’re in competition w your gf. Lame.
Hers is the same size but only 2 bedrooms. Not competing but if I moved in living quarters would be tight. One bedroom for the both of us and I need a bedroom or space for a small office to work from home.
Sounds like you have questions about your relationship. Make sure you’re on the same page with finances before you’re married or it’s likely to end in disaster.
If you are not in agreement with how money is handled marriage is probably a mistake and would want a prenup.
I was in a similar position with you. I graduated debt free working 4 jobs through college. Bought my house, cash and renovated it and have 200k in my IRA and 403b, with another 50k in savings.
Wife made a series of bad financial decisions but no guidance - taking out a ton of student loans and didnt get a degree; 2 car loans; money owed to IRS all totaling close to 60k in debt.
However, she was open with it from the start and said she is paying it off. Since being with me, she sees how I manage my life and finances - and told her some ways to start paying things down and literally set a budget with her.
Is the person your with open to sitting down and talking? Also, are you sure she wants fancy stuff like her family or are you assuming guilt by association?
What I will say is that it becomes frustrating when I know what bills she has to pay, but spends money on stupid wants, then complains about not having money. Thats when you have to learn to say no when it comes to getting stuff and fein basically debt as well.
Being how most of the bills fall on me, when she doesnt contribute her part - I dont contribute mine.
For example: Id love to buy her a new purse she wants, but cant afford. And sure i just got paid and can afford it, but I personally feel I shouldnt self-sacrifice for someone that doesn't sacrifice in the present to get what they want in the future. Thats more of my pholosophy....
As a safe financial backing, check your states laws around a prenup. Being how I have accounts and own a house/land - I originally had a pre nup made.
Thankfully my attorney said I can mix that into my parents name in the event something were to happen so I can keep what Ive worked the better part of my life for.
Exactly the response I needed. Yes 60% of it is me going to worst case scenario in my head but for fair reason based on some anecdotal comments she’s made (I’ve explained these in other replies if you care to read). I basically framed up the worst case scenario which is: we get married no prenup and I bring more to the table from equity/savings and a salary perspective. She sees this big increase in how she can live and suddenly her car is paid off, I throw some $ at the house and now she’s asking for a jet ski. Why? Because oh we have $20k in the bank we can afford it.
Yes I know this is a stretch and i’m using my imagination here but before having the conversation I thought I needed to so I could hear about situations like yours. Thank you
Awesome! Im glad it helped. Its like a push-pull inside of your head. With marriage, comes in part faith so anything can happen but we judge based on what we can see/observe. I believe on effort on other peoples part because then there is some level of consciousness and intentionally/intuition on their part to make better decisions/life choices
Being on the same page about money is CRUCIAL for making a marriage work long-term. Y'all need to have a conversation, but I'd take a step back in the way you approach it, because it'll come off badly if you go to her with the attitude I see in this post (basically "I'm doing great, she's doing badly, and she's going to drag me down.")
Maybe bring up that the DR plan has really helped you get where you are and shapes where you see your future going financially and you want to share that with her. Offer to buy one or two of the books and read them together. Maybe once you're engaged, do FPU as part of pre-marriage preparation/counseling.
Thanks this is great advice. Again since I think of worst case scenario what if I offer these things and she resists. Then I mention I don’t think we’re a good fit and need to take a break and suddenly she’s into learning about the financial piece…where do I draw the line? I realize if she doesn’t have a clue about some basic principles she won’t be super compelled to take the course, however, I feel like if I can get her to sign up (even if it ends up feeling like an ultimatum for our relationship in whole) then that’s still better than ending it. Again that’s putting it in a very negative light but I have to think of what’s the worst and best outcome here…?
Well, only you can truly answer this question, correct? We don't know her and we don't know your relationship. If she resists, do you still see yourself being with her long-term? Or would you have a situation where you guys will be together but keep everything separate and not get married? Either way, you need to have a serious talk with her and lay it all out. Therefore, she can also decide if this is a relationship worth being on the same page with or if she doesn't see a future with you. Finances are the biggest reason for breakups/divorces. Better to be on the same page now rather than later when it's already too late.
Date for a couple more years. If you’re gonna spend life together better to make sure it works out dating first and have tough conversations before serious marriage plans are made
I just want to add to definitely talk to her in a calm and open way about finances and what you envision and then ask her what she would envision; this can open up the conversation to see if you both can choose a path together.
I would also like to add that you make some assumptions that she will be exactly like her family and want “toys”; from my experience a lot of people are different from their family as much as they can be similar, so maybe because she grew up in a house where her family was buying expensive things all the time, maybe she will note the financial stress it caused and completely avoid it herself. (Think growing in a maximal home and then becoming a minimalist when you move out as an example).
Yes I have made some large assumptions but needed to in my head to ask this subreddit before sitting her down bc I wasn’t sure how to do it. Here is the anecdotal evidence I have: her brother lives at home and bought a 50k truck. She mentioned he has 50k in savings (which to her is a lot) and next he wants to buy land to hunt on. My thought is he should use the savings to pay off the truck and you can’t buy land until you’re debt free. Her dad owns ~60k truck and a 40k boat that they use every weekend—it brings the family together and this is their main hobby so fine. Lastly she mentions wanting a jet ski in the future saying average price is $15-20k. 3mo ago she bought a brand new car upgrading from sedan to SUV. All of this to say I made assumptions wondering why she’s dreaming of a life with new cars and jet skis when she likely doesn’t have 20% equity in house yet (PMI) and is no where close to paying off her car she just bought. She’s also struggling to save (or at least that’s how she conveyed it) for a trip next year overseas. So yes I over analyzed a lot of this information but wanted to instead of asking her because I need a gut check and a way to frame the conversation that doesn’t make it seem like my way is the best way.
Ahhh so that definitely adds more context, and I can see your concern now! I just wanted to make sure you weren’t boxing her in based on the home she grew up in just in case. But I definitely still think a nice relaxed and friendly conversation with her will be beneficial as you will hopefully find some peace of mind once you can plan together :)
Tbh you do sound arrogant and judgmental. You mentioned nothing about her you like either, just emphasizing she’s bad with money as if that is her only quality. I agree finances are important and understand your anxiety but have you even tried to really talk to her about both your views on money and spending? You’re one year in, would consider marriage after three. That’s fine, but you’re not living together and don’t combine finances (which is good). So you don’t have a say really in what she spends her money on or vice versa. Superficially asking about the car or jetski is not a real and serious sit down conversation about your future and (financial) goals together. Start there and give her time to shift her mindset and do something about the debts. If your values and goals don’t line up or if she’s not willing to give up her financial lifestyle, then yes marriage would likely be a disaster. But if she agrees and you are too cheap, resentful of the debts she brings into the relationship or are financially overbearing, then it would also be a disaster. Being the saver in the relationship doesn’t automatically make you the “good partner”. Communication is always the key. Marriage means shared goals but also compromise. Something tells me though that the way you approach this subject and behave towards her, is going to be the main issue.
Being debt free should be about security and comfort, not about what rung of the debt free ladder you are on. He's afraid that if he shares his opinion on her money management, he'll come off as judgmental. That will happen because he IS judgmental about this.
The examples OP picked were about how she's invested in her life by buying a condo (he still rents). I was expecting him to list things like shopping sprees, vacations, and casino visits. She and her family like new vehicles. Maybe that's not his thing, but it's not a mortal sin.
OP, everybody can benefit from therapy, so invest in some before you have this discussion with her. It will help you sort out your feelings on a whole lot of topics, so you can proceed with this relationship in a healthy way. And if this is a deal-breaker for you, that's fine, too. You're only a year into this relationship, it's not like you've put decades into it.
You’re not understanding that I cherry picked this example of the one red flag I foresee if I were to potentially think about marrying. I didn’t list the 10 good qualities because that’s not where I need the help it was specifically around the few comments about car/boats and the fact that it does run in her family. I mentioned the brides family typically pays for the wedding and she goes “oh yeah?” sarcastically sort of signaling to me that her parents don’t have much money. That’s fine but one starts to make assumptions and wonder about it…is it because her dad owns a 40k boat and 60k truck? You won’t be able to answer these questions and I can’t either it’ll have to be a conversation with her I just needed help framing up the conversation in a way not to come off as rude. I explicitly mentioned that so I understand I’m coming off as a bit superior but to me that’s just the truth or the facts that I know…from my perspective it does seem like I’m anecdotally a bit stronger at knowing the exact principles to follow for successful personal finance. In my mind that’s not arrogant it’s just the truth…now you might think otherwise.
I say this with respect, you need to stop making judgements/assumptions about other peoples financial situation. What her dad does/buy with his money is none of your business as long as he’s not asking you for money. Regarding the tradition of brides parent paying for the wedding, it’s 2024 - most couples pay for their own wedding regardless of what tradition says. In my culture, it’s tradition for the grooms family to pay for the wedding and buy a house for the couple. I did not even bring it up to my in laws because I know they can’t financially afford it. My fiancé and I bought our house together and will be paying for our wedding together.
Your focus should be on yourself and your GF. Instead of making assumptions about all her relatives and analyzing “worse case scenarios”, you need sit down with your GF and discuss shared financial goals as well as any financial boundaries with her family.
Watch some of Dave’s videos on how to talk to your partner about this. There’s plenty of examples on their YouTube channel on how to approach the subject and ease into this. Remember, she’s “normal” so she probably doesn’t see anything wrong with how she does her finances. And while I agree it’s not financially smart, it’s also not morally wrong just because it doesn’t align with how you think about money. Don’t expect her to change overnight or do everything the way you’ve done it so far. If you think you might want to marry her down the road, then a conversation about what that ideally looks like for you is needed. Both of you are going to have to agree on shared values and goals and compromise on certain aspects. Living debt free is a dealbreaker, so that needs to be discussed thoroughly. Don’t jump to the worst case scenario or only look for things that will confirm your fears, explain to her how you feel and why it’s important to you (safety, dreams/goals). Plenty of people find Dave later in life and turn things around completely.
Again, if you all can’t get on the same page, you are right that marriage is not a good idea. But reading your comments, I get concerned you are not realizing how you will come across to your partner and more importantly how you will make her feel when you bring this up. Because that is going to be a major factor in whether she’s going to be open to listening to your point of view, as it will take multiple in-depth conversations about how you two see your futures and finances. If you have a lot of anxiety about this and avoid bringing up this topic, then maybe talking to a therapist is a good idea too.
Yes I am struggling on how to put this in perspective and ease into it. Families and people in general are so secretive about finances (which makes sense you don’t go around telling people about your successes or failures no one wants to hear that) that I have no true experience talking to someone about this. Doing it with a girl that aligns on most things except financial principles makes it pretty important. Maybe I need to do a dry run with one of my sisters or parents to get perspective on how to emotionally talk and communicate because I don’t have much experience there. Thanks for the comments
Personal finance is not just based on math and values. Money brings up a lot of feelings like anxiety and shame for most people. It’s very personal for most and comments on how people spend their money are easily perceived as judgmental or a personal attack. Which is probably why a lot of people are not very open about it.
The videos from Dave Ramsey with Dr. John Delony I found very helpful. So are Ramit Sethi’s couples videos, also on YouTube. He obviously does not follow Dave LOL, but he’s very good at asking the right questions to help people open up, ask relevant questions and see things from their partner’s perspective. Even people who start out on the same page can run into financial issues where they think differently on how to handle it. So having trust and open communication is important.
The brides family paying for the wedding is rooted in a history of bride prices and dowries, and is about selling possession, not celebrating a marriage. It's about "take my daughter off my hands and I'll throw a big party!" As a man, that may not be offensive to you, but as a woman, I find it smacks of misogyny.
Remember Dave's powdered but rule. Someone's not going to listen to financial advice from someone whose butt they powdered. They're even less likely to take it from the boyfriend of said person. In your judgment of her, you're judging her whole family. She's not going to take kindly to that.
Yes I am indeed judging and/or making observations about her family but it’s because it’s so foreign to me. My dad is frugal and my mom cooks at home we hardly go out to eat she probably judges that and thinks we’re cheap & not enjoying life. That’s completely fine and I would argue it’s human nature to judge because the opposing family situation is foreign to both of us. I just didn’t want to sweep those intrusive thoughts under the rug and instead of going to a friend IRL I tried to best frame it up here.
This isn't the lady for you. She's probably not going to change as much as you want her to, and you're not going to change enough to suit you. You're just incompatible, and that's not a sin.
Marriage is the number 1 cause of divorce and losing half of your savings and retirement.
Do you love this lady? I have not read anything nice you said about her. I see a young woman with her own home and a decent car. What is the problem?
He's worried about setting his debt free status more than her feelings.
Yes, each person views spending money differently.
To say the very least! The reality is that they're incompatible when it comes to money. He needs to find another money nerd and settle down with her.
I agree.
She owns you rent. You’re not in a position to flex my guy.
I don’t understand owning is isn’t better 100% of the time? The cost of owning a home can and most likely is higher at least in the short term than renting. So if the guy is someone that’s still exploring his career and moving around then renting is probably a better option for him to give him that mobility.
Stay poor and pay mortgages and then more for your landlord so they build that net worth. I thank the likes of you
When you want to settle down or have no employment prospects then yes. Otherwise it would be stupid it would take at least 5 years to break even before thinking about moving
1 yr is not long enough to marry her. If she doesn’t change, move on or expect your bank account to hit 0!
No one can drain your bank account faster than a wife…..Now that’s a fact and you can ask any married man and he will agree.
A husband can also drain a wife's bank account fast. Don't be sexist.
Yes but in this case I was replying to the husband to be.
My marriage didn't work so far, we still live together and are close so I haven't given up hope. The biggest issue was the lack of being on the same page. I believed in working hard in my late 20s, so we'd be set up by our mid-30s. He believed in not working, traveling while I'm covering the day to day expenses and getting my degree.
I couldn't articulate how frustrating this was making me, and he couldn't begin to comprehend my stance. The result was him traveling to some other country with friends and was my last straw as I didn't wait to move.
If it bothers you now, it'll bother you later. You need to get on the same page or you'll resent her and eventually just say fuck it like I did. Then you're the bad guy because you just wanted to put a nail in the coffin.
This is a conversation (or a series of conversations) you need to have before marriage.
"I want to make sure we are on the same page when it comes to money management so that we can avoid conflicts after we get married. Let's talk about how we each envision our financial future and figure out what's going to work best for us as a couple."
Money issues are one of the leading reasons for divorce. Having a clear agreement about finances will save you both a lot of heartache.
So you have $220k in assets and your 26? 90k/yr is like 70k after taxes... so you managed to save every penny of your income for more than 3 years in a row since you graduated college. Just say you are arrogant because you came from money and have it better than most.
He stated it was all saved by hard work and frugal life style... and besides, from what I understand the 90k is take home pay.
Either way it actually really doesn't matter, at all. from money or not, rich or poor, if they aren't on the same page money wise I wouldn't even consider marriage.
This is money saved dating all the way back to when i started working at 15yrs old to be clear. In no way was it just the past 3yrs…I’ve only been making 90k for a little over a year. Started my professional career at 60k -> 85k -> 90k
Good for you man, don't let people like this get to ya, you don't have to justify yourself.
As for the advice, this is my humble personal opinion ;
Talk to her, have as many conversations about it as you two can stomach and make your goals (financial and partnership) clear. There's no other way to go about but honesty and being open. Take your time and stay open minded, double the amount you want her to be.
If she doesn't want to budge and keep that FICO credit indebting lifestyle crap, I would be extremely resistant to marriage (and honestly the relationship as a whole) because there is no 'your' money anymore, and there's no 'her' debt. It becomes we, ours and us.
If you're not ready to take on your lifestyle AND yours, it's a divorce before it's a marriage and maybe it's a discussion y'all should have had before, But I digress.
Communication is key and do not settle for something you don't want, you will resent her and yourself in the long run and nobody wins.
Good luck and I wish you both the best!
You may get there eventually but ATM you two aren't a marriage match. That's not to say you two should break up but you definitely shouldn't marry until you are. Finances and how money is viewed/handled isn't just an issue in most marriage it's usually THE issue (precluding things like abuse of course).
As such you both need to get on the same page both in theory and also in practice before you even consider walking down the aisle. 1st, you both need to have a frank conversation on your views on money, spending/saving, budgeting, money philosophy, etc. and come up with what you both want your financial/money dynamic to look like in a marriage. 2nd, assuming you're able to reach a consensus which will likely require both of you to compromise somewhat (if not may have to both cut your losses), both of you need to start putting into practice what was discussed in step 1.
Let's say you two reach a compromise that she'll work to pay off her car and move towards getting debt free and will start budgeting so she doesn't go further in debt whereas you will agree to take your foot off the save pedal and treat yourself/herself a bit more. Putting that into practice can be her making an extra car payment each month and you taking her out for a nice dinner or some other event you both like 1 more time each month than usual.
Whatever compromise looks like for you two overall point is before marriage you both need to get on the same page and put that page into practice and not just talk about it. If you can't do that cut your losses.
To build on JAG190 recommendation, marriage is a compromise. You need to give a little and so does she. This does NOT mean one of you is "giving in." Both of you have to win for the marriage to work. So don't start the conversation with "here are a list of things you need to change before we get married" or something like that. It will not end well.
Instead maybe approach it from a positive perspective. "When we're married how should we handle debt? When we're married should we pool our money or keep seperate account? Will we move into your townhome or get a place together?" Stuff like that. Through the conversation set goals: Where do you think you should be in your careers/finances before considering having kids. Should all future cars be bought with cash or debt and if debt how much. Have these conversations long before you are facing the reality of them, that way your reactions won't be driven completely by emotion.
I'm going to say it again: You have to both compromise! You may need to be open to not having the most efficient savings habits to allow for some luxuries and she may need to delay the purchase of things until the cash is saved for it. Find the balance that works for you both.
He said she's a girlfriend, not a fiance. He probably shouldn't start a conversation with "when we're married."
You sound very immature
No! He's 26, makes 90k a year, has no debt, so he must know it all!
Finance wise idk probably better off than most isn’t he?
Yes, but he values (or doesnt) other people on how they handle money. There's more to a relationship than that.
If you can’t have a conversation about finances and level with her honestly you’re not ready to get married.
There are ways to "fix" this.
Both Wifey and I came from a decade of want. We both spent several years on the free school lunch program. My family pulled out of the malaise a bit faster than my wife. She had the opinion that her parents were foolish about money. During pre-marital counseling we agreed that we would not spend more than 100 without talking to each other first.
Over 35 years, we've adjusted that a few times.
Such an agreement is part of merging your money.
When I married her, I married her student loan debt. We paid it of right quick after the wedding...but we were younger than you -- I two years out of StateU, and she two months out.
Talk with her. discuss finances and money. Are you two going to merge all your finances? (We did). Pre-nup? (We did not). What you two need is an understanding that supports your marriage.
Well i think Dave is taken so you can’t have him if you dump her.
One year is a little to short to get married in my opinion but if you really want to do it then why not just get married by the justice of the peace? Skip the big expenses and just tie the knot?
It isn't the wedding. He is worried about their financial ambitions not aligning.
Marriage is about being selfless and tbh you need counseling before you ever get married
Jesus Christ if being cheap is more important than possibly marrying someone you love just keep saving money and love alone with your frugality
Being cheap at the expense of irresponsibility?? I’m not saying I won’t pay for dinners or kitchen tables. No I don’t want to buy new cars my entire life or boats/jet skis until we’re in a sound place financially. Isn’t that just common sense?
People have different ideas about what a "sound place financially" is.
Marriage is a partnership. For better or worse, for richer or poorer. Also when you are married, the money you have isn't yours, its both of yours. I can tell you right now that as a married man, you can't be frugal all the time. You will need to bite the bullet and pay for the things you need like replacing the water heater or paying for preschool/daycare because little one needs the experience.
Before marriage, you and your girlfriend need to talk about future goals and values. If they don't match, your relationship will be rocky. Also please don't feel pressured into marriage.
We are not here to convince you about forever. You have doubts. Talk with her early and often about finances. If you don't align here then you are already on a path of failing.
She made those purchases before you guys were dating or were serious in your relationship I assume? There’s a difference between ignorance and stubbornness. You can teach her and guide her on how to make more financially responsible decisions. She may be happy and willing to learn.
I'm sorry but no. Even if she made some/all of those purchases before dating OP they're still an indication of her overall attitude with money and the incompatibility between her views on it and OP's. Financial incompatibility is a valid concern to have when considering marriage (for both) and minimizing it with 'those purchases were made before being dismissive' is being dismissive of that.
Sure she may want to change and make steps but until that's put into practice OP is right to be wary, right to want to actually see change before getting into marriage, and right to seek out other opinions on navigating the issue.
She bought the house before I knew her. She bought the car 3mo ago and I was one of the first people she told. She took a picture of it and posted it on social media…not from a status standpoint but more like the individuals that name and take pictures of their cars.
If you were to proceed into marriage that’d need to be a decision made by both of you, and if she’s receptive of your insight I don’t see why she’d be a long term hinderance to your financial goals. Also you should look into the townhome. Even if you don’t see it as a forever home it’d be a smarter move for both of you to live there and contribute to the mortgage and then sell it for a profit down the line vs paying rent and getting nothing out of it.
Frugal is how you say cheap when you don’t want to refer to yourself as cheap.
No. Frugal incorporates the concept of value. Cheap just considers initial price. There's a difference.
I agree, how are you saying I’m cheap? Because I won’t buy a boat or brand new nice car? I don’t value them the same way others do…can I call you shallow not planning for your kids lives or your own retirement at the expense of some fun now? Once I budget retirement and other known expenses I’m free to use my money to buy cars or boats but no the other way around personally.
" I don’t value them the same way others do"
If you and she don't value them the same way, that doesn't make you right and her wrong... it just means you value different things. You may not be right for each other, but stop making her the villain.
It might not go as bad as you think if you’re not a dick about it. My wife is terrible with money, however she earns 3x what I make. She lets me be in charge of the money. Her mother was terrible With money and she and her brother inherited it. Me and his wife joke about there being a genetic component. I’m not in charge of the money because I’m the man or some shit, it’s because she’s self aware enough to know she’s not good at it but still has a mental compulsion that she’s accepted would put us in a bad place. One party can be the finance person as long as both parties consent.
This is me and my husband as well.
So long as he's comfortable, he's happy as a clam to have me in charge of saving and spending.
The car was a bad call. The house wasn’t.
I don’t want to be the bearer of bad news, but it might go the way you fear. My husband’s financial illiteracy and general stupidity drained a significant portion of my hard work. I feel like we’re always struggling to undo his mistakes. He just can’t stop making bad financial choices and I have been his safety net for so long that he’s almost run out of net. It’s hard to not be resentful. Consider these problems VERY carefully before you commit.
Agree completely. Being the safety net gets old quick
First, as someone who recently bought a car, a 26k car is not expensive in the current environment. It's probably a fairly reasonable car that has some basic quality-of-life features.
I bought one of the cheapest cars I could find last Oct. I spent 20k on a used 2015 Mazda 3. I had one requirement, a backup camera, which is now required in any car made after 2018, so that's not even a serious requirement.
Second, it doesn't really sound like she's making that bad choices. She's just making different choices than you. She values living in her townhouse now and the immediate value of redoing things now. 190k for a townhouse sounds pretty reasonable, although where I live the cheapest shit hole is 500k.
You have to decide what you value, but what I see here is she's not someone who values expensive things. She values nice, affordable things and enjoys her money as it comes. You could teach her to value saving better, but I don't think you'll talk her into paying off her mortgage first.
I have a few more years on you; I was big into Dave Ramsey when I had a lot of student loans. These days I take a more holistic look at things. I'm not scared of leveraging money, but I do prefer to be debt-free.
Marriage is the worst. Don’t do it. You can live your whole life with someone, kids and all, without getting married. Unless you are religious there is no reason to do that, you put your livelihood at risk.
I struggle with this too. U sound like me. Marriage can be a stupid contract to enter into from a business standpoint. Plus the wedding is a horrible investment as well. I don’t know the answer, but I don’t wanna be responsible for anybody’s past financial decisions. I also don’t want anybody else’s wealth, I just don’t wanna be liable for your bad decisions. I would rather keep stuff separate. That way neither of us can say anything about the other persons spending habits. I save a lot of money. I didn’t save that money to bail someone out who didn’t properly prepare.