Fair for me to rule that Silvery Barbs can only be used prior to damage being rolled?

Yes, RAW silvery barbs triggers when the result of the attack roll is known, and before damage is rolled. It's too late to decide to use it after the damage is rolled. (Though as you note, if you are auto-rolling damage and showing those rolls publicly, you'll have to either allow it or change that setting.)

I would say that using it before knowing the damage is the intended use case of the spell. It already says WHEN a creature... succeeds. As in, in that moment that it succeeds on the d20 roll, not after damage is rolled.

It is to be declared before damge.

 However if you are rolling damge at the same time. Just let it go. You are not breaking the game. Instead you are making the player feel impactful.

Mechanics like Silvery Barbs and Cutting Words assume that there is space between "they hit" and "this is the damage". If you take away that space you are either strongly buffing the ability or making it almost useless. I'd recommend changing the settings or allowing it to be used after damage is seen.

Turn off damage auto roll and give them like 1-2 seconds to react before rolling damage. Once you roll damage, it's too late to react.

Yeah that's the the problem with online sometimes. The amount of automatization is nice but it sorta breaks the intended process and procedures.

With Siverly Barbs the PC isn't supposed to know how much damage they might take when they decide to use it or not. So yeah it's completely RAW and RAI that they have to decide to use it or not before damage is rolled.

You also need to decide if you want to roll in the open or not. That's a whole other thing but you should consider if you want the PCs actually seeing what your roll is, and maybe start using hidden GM rolls. That's a whole big discussion that doesn't really change the SB issue however.

I don't think it's fair to expect the player to decide to use the spell or not if damage is being auto rolled at the same time as the attack. Either hide the damage, split the roll, or let the player use the spell after damage has been rolled.

I have a bard in my player group and I allow this even after damage is rolled because a) it is a leveled spell b) the creature may still hit and c) I don’t want to mess with the flow of combat.

It’s your game though and I think you could safely rule it this way and make exceptions for any time that you announce damage too quickly

Sure.

You gotta adjust it on the part of showing damage automatically but that’s just the normal play loop without automation.

I don’t think the damage impacted the use of SB the bard in my group just hits any crit with it on someone other than the barb that’s below half hp.

Sure, I believe that's how it's intended. But then you need to remove the auto roll, otherwise it would be impossible to ever use the spell.

Not sure why some people find silvery barbs to be overpowered. There are so many ways to force rerolls like do you ban them all?

Your use of shortcuts should always bias in favor of the other party. Autorolling damage should be to their benefit, not to break their abilities. I feel this way about counterspells when you say the name of the spell without giving them an opportunity to perceive the casting first as well. You slipped and gave them an advantage, they didn’t break any rules.

It's RAW. Silvery barbs is a reaction to a successful attack roll, ability check or save, so this should come before a dmg roll is seen by the player.

Your monster stat blocks can be edited to remove "auto-roll damage"

Personally, I don't roll in the open in the first place as a DM. So this is a non-issue for me.

That said, if you are committed to rolling in the open, when you use a monster, open the stat block, click on the gear top right, and uncheck "auto roll damage and crit"

Now when you roll, it will display the To-Hit roll(s). To get the damage if it hits, you click on the name of the attack in the chat and it will roll the damage dice that are appropriate.

Either allow it or turn off auto rolls.

Pretty simple: turn off auto-rolling.

If there ANYTHING that has a 'after the hit but before damage' effect, it is pretty obvious you can't use auto-rolling and visible rolling simultaneously.

Literally the only spell I flat ban.

I think that’s correct. And I generally, as a player, only use it to cancel Nat 20s.

Don't see that it matters. There is nothing op about the spell, people love to overreact about it.

If your players want to burn a resource in order to get a straight reroll, let them. In theory the result is what could have happened anyway, the new roll was always the potential outcome. Yeah, one of them gets advantage, not exactly something too difficult to arrange either.

Let them hand their moment where they avoid a bad thing, let them burn resources to do that. Let them feel helpful, it cool when that advantage makes a difference.

But in the grand scheme of things, whatever the dice say after Silvery Barbs could be the same as what was rolled anyway. It's not changing that much

Why go through the hassle to turn off auto damage to just try and nerf a couple of points of mitigated damage. Ban the whole spell or leave it alone

Honestly, the only people who say that it is overpowered, don't run a properly exhausting adventuring day/dungeon delve.

Multiple encounters and dangers, no more than 2 short rests, plenty of non-combat things that necessitate spell usage.

The spell doesn't specify either before or after so you could. That said due to the limited number of spell slots I've not seen silvery barbs be an issue. If players are trying to overdo it, I would try and bait it out of them. Let them know a monster is making an ability check to do something. Personally if I'm a player it would be really funny to screw up some bad guy's jump and cause him to go prone and use the rest of his movement to stand up. Or even fall into a crevice and die causing an insta win for the fight.

I think the biggest issue with silvery barbs is the tendency of a session to flow like this "people show up, one person is a little late. People BS for 10-15 minutes before settling and then BSing for another 5-10 minutes". 10-15 minutes of recap and helping the new or perpetually high person figure out their level up. Then 1 hr on the setup/hook for the next dungeon/adventure, pizza shows up 30 min break. Assuming your play time is 4 hours like many, that leaves you basically 2 hours so many people skip several combats/puzzles from an adventure to get things wrapped up. This means a lot of games lead to a lot of single or double combat sessions in which case silvery barbs IS absurdly OP due to spell slot economy.

If your style of DMing is leading to only a few fights either ban it or just add another bad guy to an encounter or two and that should balance out. They only have so many spell slots.

Many players have a difficult time of tracking resource usage between sessions so finding decent stopping points is sometimes hard as well. (I'm also bad about this, especially with spell slots).

If this is a situation where you have a whole party who has it...well good luck lol personally I think this spell should have been unique to the bard tbh.

Hope the ideas help.

Yeah the reaction says after the attack roll succeeds. That implies right after that happens, before anything else happens as reactions happen immediately. Though in your scenario she would've still known it crit and probably would've done the same thing. It does have an impact but I think it'll be a realtively small change.

One option I did with silvery barbs is make it a 2nd level spell. That makes it a bit less spammable and a bit higher cost, while still getting use from the players.

No, requiring someone to declare it before they see damage is how that works. If you need to change Roll20 to do that, you should.

it obviously is quite OP for a first-level spell

It's really not. You only have do many first level slots and you should have an adventuring day long enough to drain them. Plus it spends their reaction, they can't counterspell. I'm honestly tired of this take.

Did they fix it in DnD24?

The decision to use features and spell effects that twiddle rolls (Flash of Genius, Restore Balance, bardic inspiration, Precision Attack et al) is usually ruled to happen after the die roll is known but before the DM calls it a success or failure. It's a momentary window and players need to be alert to it.

Silvery Barbs specifically says you get a reaction when a visible creature succeeds, so I would rule that reaction window closes when damage is rolled. Definitely communicate the expectation to Silvery Barbs casters that they have to chime in before damage is rolled.

I believe that isn't a ruling of yours, that is explicitly how the spell works.

You'll need to change settings as you said but the spell is incredible without knowing damage. Adding the damage in makes it crazy

You have to turn off auto damage roll. That would be unfair to enforce.

It would be fair to rule it this way, as long as you make sure that you hide GM rolls from players or turn off the auto damage roll and let the players know that this will be the ruling going forward before the next session starts

There’s an option on roll 20 to turn off auto roll damage

I think that's fine (and intended) as long as you also require it for any other reaction that's similar (Shield, counterspell, battle master thing, cutting words, etc)

Just untick the 'roll both' box and roll the damage openly after they declare "this hits and goes through". Barbs is the same level as Shield, they could just as likely be using shield and for that too you would need to be informing them of a hit before they choose to cast.

I would either allow it as written or outlaw it entirely.

I hate the spell and ask my players to not use it. I won't get into it here, but there's many threads on this subreddit that go into all the downsides of the spell. I tell my players if they never use it, neither will their opponents.

As for your player, they've already taken it so it would kind of suck to nerf it after the fact. If you don't like the spell, maybe offer the player a free spell swap or free cantrip in exchange for not using it anymore.

My group has a Chronomancy Wizard (reduced reroll effect from SB), and that’s basically how we play it. Usually he calls it out in crit hits, which he knows can be a lot more damage

Is there another ability in game that gives disadvantage or forces a reroll on someone else without a save?

Is there another ability that does so and then grants advantage to another?

You can shut off the auto roll damage

From my experience: If you rule the spell only works on attack rolls and not on ability checks and saving throws it's still very strong but no longer broken.

Do you do the same for shield?

You're the Dungeon Master. You do you for the good of the game.

You're the DM, anything is fair. Ours completely banned the spell

Yeah, either turn off autoroll or hide the roll so that they have the opportunity to take the reaction at the appropriate time between hit and damage. Can't blame the player for the timing on the spell usage, but good to notice the need to change your settings.

I use roll20 with some of the auto roll / open roll options and generally declare while I'm clicking the rolls so I'm very liberal with allowing players to use their reactions even if they have more information that they would RAW. I don't mind the buff players get from this.

I would never, ever block a player from using a spell, ability, or item because I chose to use an auto-roll.

If you want to keep it in your game, just hide the rolls and never tell your players if its a critical hit.

Silvery Barbs is busted. Make the player make the call to use it before they know its a crit and especially before damage is rolled.

You are totally correct in ruling that way. The spell says it triggers on hit. Technically, the damage role does not come until after the hit. This is in step 3 of making an attack on PHB pg 195.

Yes, it is broken (imo) otherwise.*

*sam's cousin.

Not sure what they were expected to do if you’re auto rolling damage out in the open.

But in general, the Reaction happens when the attack hits, if damage is rolled after that and announced it is too late to Silvery Barbs.

It’s like waiting to cast Counterspell until after your friend fails a Dex save against Disintegrate.

Totally fair. It's just "unlucky" that she got to see the damage roll there. She'd probably use the spell anyways, if she hears that it's a critical hit.

Yes, you choose to roll it before the damage is rolled, and after the attack roll is made.

However in this specific situation your use of roll 20 with auto rolling removes this window entirely. This makes this an issue on the DM end (I'm assuming you're in charge of the game options), and you need to have the opportunity to let that happen, or suck it up and let them roll after your auto damage roll.

And some people cry about it being over powered, but it's not. EVEN IF IT WAS, just have some NPC's use it then, make a silvery barbs/counterspell, witchhunter NPC, add it to the spell list of any spellcasting monsters, BOOM, not a problem of balance anymore.

This is one reason i never roll damage automatically. it is just not silvery barbs. Shield is also a spell this applies to.

The player should chose if he wants to use these spells after he knows the outcome of the attack but before the damage is revealed.

Otherwise they look at the damage and if it was low they skip it if it is high they use the spell. That is not the way the spell is meant to be used.
If the attack actually have time to hit as in damage is rolled it is too late. you are already damaged. none of those spell reverts time so.

But having damage to roll automatically makes it impossible to play it this way. either those spells can never be used. or you have to allow them to be used after damage is rolled.

And for silvery barbs it is a fun spell. and a perfect crit remover. If you want you could remove the saving throw bit from it. As that is honestly the only part that is absurdly OP.

Forcing a reroll of a skill check or attack roll that is perfectly good for a level 1 spells. and giving some advantage is a cherry on the top. but not broken.
It is the forced re rolls of saving throws that can cause problems

I am aware that isn't possible with our current roll20 set-up but I can adjust settings to hide GM monster rolls to allow for this.

In Roll20, you can turn off auto-rolling of damage campaign wide (as the DM), or per character sheet. I do this as both a player and a DM, for similar reasons, including lesser ones like casting Shield. If someone knows beforehand whether its less or more than average, that can impact their decision, even unintentionally.

It is much easier to ban silvery barbs.

This is RAW but like you said you MUST change how Roll20 does damage rolls somehow. It’s still fair to use Silvery Barbs if damage is rolled at the same time as the attack roll.

Just to be clear, it’s fair to remove the spell entirely if you felt the need to (this is not a spell in my games) you just need to say so at the first session.

Like others have said, I'd rule it that the Silvery Barbs must be used before the damage is rolled. 

I'd also suggest you change the monster rolls to DM visible only. Not only does it give your players more freedom to react more naturally, but it also gives you better control of the game by fudging some rolls behind the screen. The dice will tell a story, but sometimes that story could use a little more drama.

This is how I ruled it in a recent run- the player had to declare SB after the attack roll but before the damage roll.

Hide monster rolls in this case. The trigger is when a relevant roll succeeds and allowing them to know the damage before making their decision is not intended per se.

Personally, I'm in the SB ban club but this should be a perfect fix for you.

The spell text does not require that it be called before damage rolls. I would not arbitrarily nerf the spell, no.

Casting before damage is literally rules as written. The reaction goes off when the target succeeds on an attack (or saving throw or whatever). That means before damage is rolled.

For you as the DM to solve the automization:

Just ask before rolling. "If the attack hits, does anyone want to Barb it?" => "Yes / No / Only Crit". Then you can roll and they already stated their intent before seeing the damage.

Easy.

Yes.

Personally, I ban it. Fuck silvery barbs.

I think that’s a completely fair ruling, but I will do you one even better DM. I use Roll20 for my group as well and I just whisper all my GM rolls. This way she won’t ever see the damage being done when she decides to silvery barbs and has to make her decision just based on her gut feeling of if she should use it.

I also like whispering all my rolls to sort of try to reign in spells like shield. Since I don’t tell players what I rolled anymore, I simply roll and say “they hit you,” then if the wizard wants to cast shield, they might do so and still get hit.

Only caveat is I do still typically mention if I crit someone in my rolls. So if you do that she’ll likely start just using silvery barbs on crits, which I don’t really mind.

So first to address your question. In the context you've presented here: give the player their silvery barbs. Yes, it's been repeated enough here about the spells text, but if it's autorolling damage then thsts not their fault they have no time to declare the spell against yours.

For all those DMs saying it's OP and broken, no. It's a level 1 spell, eats up a slot and a reaction, and at worst what happens? The monster had to reroll a save or the crit gets canceled? Boo-fucking-hoo. The player gets at best 4 castings a day depending on their character level. Sorcerer if they like can burn up sorcery points to make more, but then they've burned a resource for a "might need this" spell. If Silvery Barbs is really ruining the game then the DM is probably not running very well and should go sit on the couch and rethink their methods.

It’s fair for you to do anything you want to that misbegotten spell

I'm also a first time Silvery barbs DM.

We play in real life, I would usually call out when a monster would crit but after a few sessions ive changed to not say if its a crit, SB is a very strong spell if you let people use it at the best times but id argue its balanced if the player doesnt know whether its a crit or not

Every nerf to silvery barbs is a fair ruling.

You've gotten great advice here. Something I'll point out is that the broken part of Silvery Barbs is the repeated Saving Throw piece. With that, each 1st level slot potentially becomes an extra slot of that PCs highest level.

4th level banish>NPC succeeds>PC Barbs it TO REPEAT A 4TH LEVEL SPELL CAST

The problem only grows as PCs gain higher spell slots.

What your PC is doing isn't really that much different than the luck feat or warding flare on Light Cleric.

I have heard of some GM's outlawing silvery barbs as it obviously is quite OP for a first-level spell. I'm keen not to do this as it fits well with the flavor of her character however this will balance it somewhat.

Use more encounters per in-game day, and you'll quickly see how not "OP" it is. Players will not spam and will become pretty selective about it, my players mostly uses it to negate crits from hard hitting enemies or super import saving throws.

Either way, the following may sound like I am going to suggest you do nothing, but read it to the end. The rule doesn't say that it must be taken at that moment, just that you are can use it once you see a creature with in 60 feet of yourself succeeds on an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw. There are other rules in the game where it does state: But before you know the result, etc. This one doesn't say it, it is technically allowed RAW for them to use it after damage. However, you can and probably should require that the player states that if they want to use it before you roll for damage if nothing other than flow and speed of turns. This way, you roll, you let them know a miss/hit/critical hit/etc and if they don't use SB, then roll for damage (instead of rolling for damage twice). That's how I do it on my table, and not just for SB but any spell that functions similarly.

should have counterspelled her silvery barbs

I let the player know there is a hit and they have to decide whether to use it before damage is rolled (or told to them). I also use the 180 degree rule. You can only cast it on attacks you can see. I treat this as everything in front of the character (imagine character’s arms are out to their sides and then draw an arc from one hand to the other going in front of the character). We play in person, so the way your mini is facing is the way we judge this.

I made Silvery Barbs a second level spell and they can use it only before knowing the results of the roll. No more canceling crits, it needs to be does preemptively. It's such an annoying spell.

I've also seen it ruled as if is the first roll was a crit, as long as the reroll would hit, the attack still lands as a crit. That seemed to be a good middle ground.

Tell your player to be happy that you allow Silvery Barbs whatsoever, most DMs don't lol

In the long run, does it matter which hits they block? Players get extra enjoyment when they 1. Pull off something huge and 2. Make sure the DM doesn't pull off something huge. The players will enjoy your game more if you allow them to block you on a few good hits, rather than if you use a rule technicality to prevent them from doing so. Let them have their fun. There's no reason not to.

I love the look on a player's face when you tell them you rolled a crit and they yell "Silvery Barbs!" I'm going to love it even more when they're fighting a big bad, and the Paladin crits, grabs a mess of dice for a smite, and I calmly look him in the eye and say

"Silvery. Barbs."

If I remember correctly, it is technically, RAW, possible to roll damage before you roll to hit. So by that logic, you could completely ban the use of silvery barbs when it suits you...

Either way, if you auto roll damage then rolling after damage is known is fair. If you don't auto roll damage anymore, you can say it has to be before damage is rolled, as that is what the spell states anyway. I doubt the player would at all object to that ruling, so what exactly are you even doing here?