Title.
Still Hunt, Speakers, Red Death and Khvostov nerfed, Hawkmoon fixed
SGAStrike team go brrrrr
I'm still waiting for something bad to happend regarding the pvp strike team
I still haven't forgiven them for making the YAS nerf affect PvE
I don't understand why this guy is getting downvoted, PvP changes affecting PvE (when unwarranted) is something that has always been stupid.
Try them out before saying anything. I don't feel a difference on Khostov. I'm not sure they did anything to it, if they did it's not really noticeable- it's still a laser beam?
I think the big change was nerfing damage from the ricochet round, not its recoil
On PC, the main difference is ricochet damage. On console, the gun is just wobbly enough now it's hard to use past its intended range. Plus the lower ricochet damage. Imo the gun is no longer clearly the best auto -- I prefer Summoner which has noticably better range.
Probably got enough sales for the dlc for that sweet sweet fomo
Maybe I can actually play comp now for fun…
Let’s try and be realistic here
comp
fun
Is it possible to learn this power
The ammo economy is quite good in it now, it's significantly more enjoyable than last season. I've even played it willingly this season rather than just for rewards for the first time in years
I’m just so close to getting platinum rank but I keep having teammates throwing hard
I just want adept to gild my glorious title, for the last two seasons I keep getting stuck in plat 1🥲
ammo crates feel like shit to play with lmao
Don't pick them up then? You literally spawn with ammo
your initial spawn is always near a brick which is a no brainer to pull, you want to pull bricks off the wall to starve the enemies, the timing on the bricks does not have a good cycle to it and they do not feel like they contribute positively to the flow of the game. transmat system promotes a far healthier playstyle instead of shameless 1kd special jousting
“just don’t interact with the system” as an answer to the system being bad is stupid lol, also im obviously going to pull when i want to win?
Its better than 6v6 lobbies😅
I find comp more fun than 6s. My lobbies are just chaos in 6v6. I stopped playing after they made ammo crates standard in comp, but I look forward to return once I'm done with Elden Ring.
Same, I can actually feel like I’m improving and my game sense matters in comp. It’s way too chaotic in sixes.
Not with prismatic hunters in the mix
Lol, may be unrealistic but I was hoping for the same thing! I feel you!
Still can’t turn a corner without getting hit by two smokes and a swarm unfortunately
Lol! Used Khvostov today in IB. Still slays.
Thank fuck, no pulse rifle ever 2 tapped me as consistently as red death did and it was only out for a couple weeks.
NTTE?
Yeah I was gonna say. For as much as people bitched about Red Death I still think NTTE was and continues to be more consistent. Especially once you get the turret buddy going.
I was 2 bursting more consistently with messenger yesterday then red death. I'm sure it'll be the same today
Messenger with head seeker for more consistency is absolutely disgusting
Yep I have zen moment headseeker and it's too good. I think ppl just bored of the gun but honestly it's the best pulse rifle in the game
Yeah I have moving target and max range on mine and I just map peaple
Same with my messenger according to the stats. The range on it is nasty too
ntte is the only pulse i have more than like 500 crucible kills on. i'm at like 1100 right now. really the only pulse i ever use in pvp.
I think a big difference is the range and consistency.. the recoil difference is very noticeable and RD had more range.
NTTEs specialty is the Turret... But RD definitely had 1-2m extra over NTTE and zero recoil...
Maybe this is a controller vs MnK thing, I swear there's not another 340 pulse in the game, even a god roll messenger or Elsie's, that gives me free crits and 2 bursts like No Time does. Sure, Red Death has a couple extra meters on it, but I'd put my money on NTTE every time as long as your in range with it.
I did actually yes. I'm not trying to argue the objective truth. Red Death has next to zero recoil. But for whatever reason, NTTE was always the 2-burst king for me. Maybe it's the extra 8 aim assist on No Time, maybe it's the clearness of the sights, but I swear I got way more 2 bursts with it than Red Death.
Red Death still felt great, don't get me wrong. The 2 bursts were still easy and consistent and the extra range was noticable for sure .The original comment in this chain though was suggesting the weapon was more or less totally peerless, which I just can't agree with when NTTE has been as strong as it is for so long.
Do those weapons have deterministic recoil? I assume all exotics do by this point but that’s a huge assumption. I know they already addressed its auto rifle style recoil. But what about deterministic recoil patterns?
Deterministic Recoil isnt the issue.
Elsie's Does. Relentless does too and they are not "zero recoil" they all have kick and spreads...
I'm no expert, but could it also have to do with NTTE being around for so much longer so many consistent users have developed a natural movement to combat the recoil more effectively? Just a shower thought, nothing to back it up, if someone knows better than me I apologize lol.
For mnk NTTE is considerably better. I'm on controller and I'd take my rapid hit/headseeker Messenger over it every time.
NTTE and pulse rifles in general are better on MnK than controller. Why Bungie had to repeatedly target nerf NTTE on MnK. It's still really good.
NTTE still didn't. Maybe I just went against really cracked players but I had to change my playstyle against red death. I had to have the first shot AND enough time to eliminate the opponent before their second burst could be popped off because people just wouldn't miss optimal, no matter how much I was drilling them with my rapid fire pulse.
Messenger w desperados hello?
Yep, I could feel it right away. Bungie nerfed Red Death just enough that it feels very hard to two burst on console (haven't tried it on PC yet). Other 340s are now clearly better, which is a bit of a shame.
I wonder if I’ll actually like red death now?
I could not use it before, unlike messenger/ Elsie’s which I like alot
I'm just curious how Red Death will perform now because even when it was seemingly over-performing, I was hitting headshots more consistently with Elsie's Rifle.
You'll hate it now then, lol. The nerf is very noticable. I went from consistently two bursting to almost never. Tho maybe it's because IB is laggy? We'll see, but I'm close to dismantling the gun. Not worth running over Messenger and Elsie's.
It felt very weird to me too, was so used to elsie and messenger it just felt off to me.
Its a good point tho i might like it better now.
Have you tried it out, I’m gonna give it a go in a bit. Will report back
Ok so it wasn’t just me?
Something felt off with it
Back to adept messenger I go, honestly good nerfs they were all needed tbh
Just tested out red death and the recoil kick does indeed feel like other 340’s now 😭
Thank goodness
Thank god
I'm glad I didn't get attached to it
If it feels anything like Elsie's Rifle, which is buttery smooth, then I have no complaints. I had a significantly higher headshot percentage with Elsie's Rifle compared to Red Death when the latter was overtuned—80% compared to 72%, according to Destiny Tracker.
Red Death now feels worse than a well-rolled Elsie's.
Idk why but I read this as a well-oiled Elsie. 😂
Shame that any time an exotic weapon is actually good, people call for it to be nerfed 😭
Giving out insanely free .67 TTKs at 40m isn't healthy for the game. Exotics don't need to be omega busted for them to be "good".
This weekend we had box breathing 180 scout rifles able to have a free .67 TTK at seemingly unlimited range. Some 340 and 4 burst pulses specced into stability/accuracy are also in this camp.
An exotic trait could just be that a gun is simply a really good feeling weapon
Its exotic trait is that it heals you, increases reload speed, and cures nearby allies on reload. Good try though.
It’s trait is that it has heal clip? And maybe high impact reserves?
Jade rabbit was one of the top weapons this trials week. It’s true exotic perk is that it’s a really great feeling scout rifle
You don't have to reload for red death's cure, but you also CAN reload and get cure, it's basically heal clip on steroids. Cure on Kills, AND cure on reload after kills
Comparing a gun you have to lane for a full second with to get the same TTK is disingenuous. "Feeling good" can be the exotic perk but Red Death already has heal on kill, heal to teammates on kill and bonus damage at the bottom of the mag. Zero reason it should also be a laser beam while having 40 stability.
Even worse - 1.4 or 1.5 seconds, and that half a second is significant in practice
Box breathing scouts deserve to be nuked from orbit tho
Probably, yeah
Shame that any time an exotic weapon is actually good, people call for it to be nerfed 😭
Ah yes, that is why people cry for Hawkmoon, Thorn, Ace of Spades nerfs.
In fairness both thorn and ace have been nerfed multiple times. And yes, there were plenty of people calling for them to be nerfed, because people will call for nerfs to anything that kills them
Yes. I remember so many people freaking out over the Thorn Catalysts’s range and begging Bungie to not go through with it?
Nope. Nor have I ever seen massive portions of the trials population using those in huge percentages because they are so broken that playing with that specific weapon fictitiously boosts k/d. Khostov and red death being simultaneously overpowered in one way or another made for an awful sandbox.
Thorn's catalyst requires kills and getting close enough to draw in the remnant to get the boost which necessitates not only good aim but game sense. In fact if you search, most people were calling it mid and wondering if it was even worth unlocking.
Weapons you can sit at the back of the map and lane with while getting healed or bouncing overpowered rounds into other players you can't even see is pretty unhealthy. Granted part of the khostov issue was tied to the speaker's mask, but I predict we will see a drastic change in the meta today lol. Poor crutch kiddies won't be playing comp or trials again until there's something else they believe gives them a higher advantage based on equipment instead of skill.
Preach big dawg
I refuse to believe people are too naive to see this point. I think it's willful ignorance going on
Yeah, I don't think it's conscious often either. We all have our favorite weapons and don't like to see them being made weaker. But we have to remember a healthy game is one where outliers are brought back in band. Every PvP main hates the end of seasons because of low player count, how do you expect us to get and retain new players to keep us flush with healthy connections and lobbies if new people who don't know what "meta" even means are getting melted by weapons made unintentionally powerful in one way or another.
You’re right. I think we will see vast changes to the meta.
38% of the player base using prismatic Hunter? Let’s bump that number up to 50%
Nerf prismatic hunter then that doesn't bother me. If a subclass is clearly out of normal bounds for similar reasons as khostov and red death then it's healthy to fix it. If we're finally in a place where Bungie listens and actively tries to make things better then why are we still bitching about it? (I'm using we as a generality of the playerbase, that's not directed at you)
I don't see even a tenth of the complaints about prismatic hunters compared to people talking about khostov and red death. I'm not sure what the end goal of that statement was, if I'm not understanding would you be willing to explain to me? That's not sarcasm at all, I do not want to misunderstand someone who is willing to engage in a dialogue instead of throw insults.
Weird that you aren’t seeing lots of complaints about prismatic Hunter, here are 4 threads form the past 2 days.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CrucibleGuidebook/s/eSEPk8sOf2
https://www.reddit.com/r/CrucibleGuidebook/s/JVbr0dwUFd
https://www.reddit.com/r/CrucibleGuidebook/s/BqZ0YDxw3p
https://www.reddit.com/r/CrucibleGuidebook/s/a51TGarvyw
Idk if Bungie is really in a good place right now when we have 2 weeks of Iron banner though
I said I don't see a tenth, I've definitely seen complaints don't let my wording mislead you, and I'm sorry if it did. You have to admit there were far more posts about how miserable any form of pvp was if you weren't crutching one of the two weapons. There's also the fact of how quickly Bungie identified those two as having exaggerated recoil control and the khostov ricochets were getting a 15% damage boost, that's huge in pvp. And I mean, they are responding to things in PvP quicker, but let's remember how long it took some of the old PvP outliers to get fixed.
The two weeks of IB I feel like is a cover for gathering a staggering amount of pvp data on prismatic which they probably would have had to wait months for otherwise. It may be a disguise for gathering data to enact the prismatic hunter nerf you suggested. I know IB isn't everyone's favorite but if you think about how much it increases PvP engagement, it makes sense to have extra long IB immediately after a new subclass is released to gather that data. PvP consistently has a much lower player count compared to PvE activities and with everyone grinding out their subclass, or the story, or the raid, or the swords, or the class items.... Yeah I bet they're really hurting for real world data on prismatic in PvP.
Edit: changed "days" to "data", autocorrect got me.
On this, Khvostov feels like a standard AR of it's stats. Not throwing, but not amazing, I'd argue Arc Hard Light does better overall. Red Death isn't radically worse, though you'll want first shot for the flinch reduction.
Agree on Khvostov, disagree on Red Death. If you can't two burst consistently then it's not worth running, but that's the difficult thing about 340s. The line between too good and not worth using is so thin.
Yclgl hard light has been shredding
So we going to have a conversation about how the only sniper that was remotely competitive with shotguns got triple ammo and it STILL wasn’t enough to top shotguns on one of the longest range maps in the game?
Maybe snipers need a buff? 2 ammo per transmit? Or something?
Imo the flinch makes them damn near unusable in most scenarios. Either they reduce that crazy flinch they added recently, or add some kind of falloff to it. Feels absolutely terrible getting your screen spun 180 degrees taking one bullet from an SMG on the other side of Convergence.
Yes, we need more sniping
how is khvostov, should i not bother grinding for it anymore
I think is ok but imo not worth the grind anymore
Imo more of a pve gun now
Did you test it to verify?
Haven't been able to log yet as I'm writing up my findings farming over 60 shayuras but given the perks and dmg reduction imo doesn't offer anything over other option For instance a god crafted Rufus fury with paracausal etc
What’s your best Shayuras you got..? I farmed a bunch yesterday ( no where close to 60 tho lol ) and best I got was an Adept Zen / Kill Clip, it’s a laser beam to say the least..
i got a few "bests" depending on the mode
DSR/KC
DSR/TTT
KA/TL
Still really wanted a good ZM roll to compare at least
Not complaining with my rolls but the fact that the randomness is just not there
KA/TL is nuts. Mine is this with full bore, ricochet, stab MW, so not perfect but still good. 100 effective range + target lock + cone benefits from nadir and KA just wins so much within its 23.5m.
I still think TL is best in slot because neutral damage perks are just silly (and a huge mistake tbh). Aside from lowering optimal TTK against 6 res and below, which is particularly relevant now that everyone's on hunter, even just the TTK forgiveness invalidates every other option IMO.
loving my zen / TL adept. thing feels so good, its crazy
Still an amazing PVE weapon and still a solid pick for PVP
Dead in PVP, god for PVE.
OH GOOD BACK TO CONDITIONAL IGNEOUS
Conditional is the first thing I got killed by in IB this week and I just sat there like, “yeah…well, that’s that I guess.” Lmao
What was the issue with Still Hunt, and where does it sit now? I slapped it on my hunter but haven't played it much.
It spawned with 3 ammo and got 3 ammo per transmat in trials. It will get 1 like every other sniper
It got 3 ammo from transmats
It was getting 3 shots per ammo pull before. If you weren't blindly wasting shots left and right it's identical. Many were cheesing with it though.
I think between it getting 3 ammo and the baked in flinch resistance it's been carrying the sniper representation in the meta. I actually haven't seen it at all in PvP this past week though.
The flinch resist is what made it what it was. I'll never forget that one Trials match where my entire team focused a still hunt that could still consistently hit through explosive payload 120 and high cal 120 flinch while being focused
Oof, I'm happy I didn't run into then.. oppressive.
Pleasantly surprised these updates hit us today. Way it was worded in the TWAB last week had.me thinking it wouldn't come until the Mid-Episode patch which isn't for another few weeks.
It will be really interesting to see where the meta shakes out now, because legitimately to this point a solid 80% or more of every lobby was simply Khvotsov or Red Death and you were essentially throwing if you weren't using one of those weapons.
I think, 720 Autos are going to prove to be very strong. 450 Pulses like Outbreak also may start shining through a lot more.
Good changes. Hopefully it doesn't take them too long to adjust prismatic hunter as well, it's incredibly oppressive. Just played an IB match on endless vale against 5 of them and it was just miserable
Is iron bannnerrrr?
2 weeks straight of IB ☹️
still in a red death khvostov meta
only now a bunch more exotic automatics are joining in
RIP khvostov my love
At least fewer ppl will be playing slow af tho ppl running the exact same loadout on hunter is lowkey annoying lmao
interesting, i actually wasnt seeing it much in console 6s
How does Khvostov feel? It needed the nerf but I hope it isn’t completely gutted. The sights are just so clean with the ornament
Haven't tried it but honestly if it wasn't for the busted dmg and recoil imo better option exist also freeing exotic slot
cant find anything on still hunt?
Assume it no longer gets three times more ammo than every other special
Might have to get that darn exotic auto now .
Boooooooo
Wait the khvostov nerf already happened? Becuase it feels no different to me tbh, except for the occasional loss to a shayura close range the rifle feels insane.
I love the buttery smooth recoil, it's just an exotic rifle with built in DS and TTT and I don't think I'm going to drop this gun ever, in the last 3 days of iron banner I've almost racked up 200 kills
Besides Nechro, I don't think I've ever used an auto that has felt this good, except maybe for the OG Reckless oracle days but I digress.
Speakers is still going to be great for 15-25 sec cool down healing nades but I'm not gonna run a warlock over pris hunter in trials, I'll run my warlock for customs but outside that pris hunter and OEM titan for me
How does red death feel on roller now? I can't play till tonight to test
There def is a bit more recoil but it is still very easy to manage imo.
It's bad for me, went from consistent two bursts to three bursts. It's a team shot weapon now, vs a high risk high reward dueling weapon.
Oh thank god. This is the pvp sub, I thought they had nerfed still hunts dps.
I mean a still hunt nerf for pve is inevitable.
Yeah, but that doesn’t mean I want it now.
Nerfed all that but yet to address the massive ability spam from hunters...yea right give it 6 months and itll finally be noticed and then another 3 months for the nerf. Oh but warlocks get 1 little exotic helm nerfed cause it made too many orbs.
I'm a Warlock main who never took it off in Trials.
It needed the nerf, and it's still really powerful because it extends the ttk, and you can still get it often because of Benevolence. It's also easier to nerf 1 thing.
That said, I really hope they address Prismatic Hunter and some of the other wacky shit that hasn't become meta yet soon.
but prismatic hunter is fine /s
Wow. I'm actually impressed they fixed these so fast. I thought for sure we would have to wait until the mid-season tuning pass.