Seriously Going to Miss Trudeau

1mo

He’s had some positives, but he has also led us to lots of problems.

Incomes under Trudeau have stagnated quite a bit. For example, in 2013 Americans made $9k more annually (per the world bank). In 2022, that figure doubled to $18k. A big factor behind this is lagging Canadian productivity, which he hasn’t helped improve at all.

As for housing, I totally agree the provinces have also blocked development, but you seem to absolve Trudeau completely… per the CMHC, In 2023 there were around 220k housing starts, vs 1.3 million in terms of growth of population (per Reuters with 97.6% being from international migration).

Basic supply and demand would denote that Trudeau’s policies would put upwards pressure on housing prices. Additionally, to satiate endless corporate greed, the influx of low-skilled labour who’s willing to work for lower wages drives down the equilibrium wage.

1mo

Immigration drives up wages and GDP, thus helping Native born Canadians. I can handle Trudeau bashing, I won't tolerate xenophobia against immigrants.

Few-Flatworm-4293

1mo

Lol do tell how immigration drives up wages and GDP. Sure hasn't been the case in Canada.

-1

1mo

It literally has been the case in Canada, most Native Born Canadians are over 65 now, without immigration your wages and GDP would be in the toilet. Immigration objectively helps the Canadian economy.

"Wages" isn't just the number on your paycheck, it's the purchasing power your wage has. Someone who earns $1,000,000,000 in Zimbabwe dollars may have the same REAL WAGE as a Canadian earning $18/hr. So it's not about the dollar value, it's about what you can buy with it.

Immigrants boost your REAL WAGE by increasing the purchasing power of your dollars. Farm labor from the Caribbean drives down the price of food, so you can buy more of it. Indian immigrants who work in Uber will lower the price of your Uber rides and Uber eats. Cheap labor working in Fastfood lowers the input cost of providing said service. Any job that immigrants take on will lower the cost of production of said good or service, lower the final price, and make your REAL WAGE higher in terms of purchasing power.

Few-Flatworm-4293

1mo

Idk about you... But my purchasing power has been steadily dropping in recent years despite record immigration.

TomB19

1mo

It's almost like giving $10,000 and guranteed income for a year to non-Canadians has not helped Canadians make ends meat? What's with that?

-1

1mo

Red herring. We're not talking about purchasing power in totality, we're talking about the isolated effect that immigration has on purchasing power.

speaksofthelight

1mo

Lol what does this even mean.

1mo

I don't know how to make myself clearer

speaksofthelight

1mo

sorry late night just read it again. you are saying if not for immigration out purchasing power would be even lower, because they are doing a lot of low skilled roles?

Non-labor sensitive goods (imports, housing etc) become less affordable and landless working classes suffer the most wage suppression.

Also the benefits of low wage immigration only Pam out in very harsh strict immigration regimes like the UAE which doesn’t give immigrants access to its generous social welfare state.

Canada is nicer about things and does give access to our generous social welfare state (government spending is about 40-60% of the economy depending on how you measure)

So then the average next tax contribution matters. And generally for low skilled immigrants it is a net negative over their lifetime.

1mo

>Non-labor sensitive goods (imports, housing etc) become less affordable and landless working classes suffer the most wage suppression.

In the long run everything is labor intensive. Immigrants can build more houses, they can produce more exports, and they boost the wages of Canadians. If it weren't for immigrant farm workers in our agro industry, we'd export a lot less food.

>So then the average next tax contribution matters. And generally for low skilled immigrants it is a net negative over their lifetime.

Maybe, but this is a different point altogether.

Z3nArcad3

1mo

If "xenophobia against immigrants" bothers you, you should be outraged at Trudeau and his government. He is the one who took in more immigrants than we could handle and sold them the lie of prosperity in Canada. You think people who are appalled by the number of people we have taken in can ONLY be motivated by racism when the truth is that this was a major disservice not just to the newcomers but to Native born Canadians.

If you think it's "xenophobia" to think it's immoral and unethical to take in people when there's no housing, no affordable apartments, grocery prices through the roof, etc, then maybe you need to open your eyes to the newcomer experience in Canada and how many of them choose to LEAVE here.

Why is it so damned hard to look at this problem objectively?

1mo

You should really stop listening to right-wing influencers and look at the problem objectively.

If Canada's economy is doing poorly, and immigrants are the one thing that can drive an economy, why would you not bring in immigrants so you can fix the housing crisis, boost GDP, fix the dollar, make groceries affordable again, etc.

Z3nArcad3

1mo

I don't listen to "right-wing influencers". If you can do basic math, you know that taking in THIS MANY newcomers was a guaranteed recipe for disaster. Perhaps you should start caring more about the people who are genuinely suffering because of an unethical immigration policy and care a little less about absolving the Liberal Party of the mess they created.

Another massive tip: Stop pretending that anyone who doesn't worship Trudeau is "right wing" or "fascist" or whatever other buzzword you use to dismiss the people who won't vote for him again. I know it makes you feel better to see the world in black and white, but it makes you oblivious to the issues that are really affecting the country. Say anything as long as it's not critical of Trudeau and the Liberals, right?

(https://www.immigration.ca/justin-trudeau-says-canada-accepting-too-many-temporary-immigrants/)

1mo

I know it feels good to pretend I'm not looking at this objectively, when I formed my opinion on open borders reading economic papers years before any of this even began. Immigration is objectively good for a nation the same way free trade is, free movement of people and goods helps everyone.

Z3nArcad3

1mo

No. Immigration *in moderation* is good for a nation. Flooding the country with no regard for infrastructure, housing and logistics is *terrible* for a nation. If you can't grasp that very simple concept, then you may want to re-visit the "economic papers" you allegedly consulted.

Adding almost half a million newcomers to Canada PER YEAR without any idea on how or where to house them during a period of unprecedented high costs of living, is unethical and unbelievably stupid. Trudeau even admitted as much himself:

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says temporary immigration numbers have grown disproportionate to the country’s absorption capacity.
He claimed this to be driving mental health challenges for international students, along with driving down wages in some sectors because of employers’ overdependence on foreign workers.
“Whether it’s temporary foreign workers or whether it’s international students in particular, that have grown at a rate far beyond what Canada has been able to absorb,” he said in Dartmouth, N.S.
“To give an example, in 2017, two per cent of Canada’s population was made up of temporary immigrants. Now we’re at 7.5 per cent of our population comprised of temporary immigrants.”
“That’s something we need to get back under control.”

He's trying to blame international students when it's *his* government that TRIPLED the number -- again, without any plan on how or where they would be housed or what their quality of life would be. Marc Miller also raised the number of hours international students could work to over 20 hours a week, meaning they and the newcomers were competing for part-time and WFH jobs. And ALL of them -- students and newcomers alike -- are buckling under the weight of affordability and housing issues.

Did your "economic papers" warn you of ANY of these dangers? Or are you going to continue to doggedly insist that mass immigration is "good for the economy"?

1mo

I don’t hate immigrants chief lol. It’s just a basic understanding of supply and demand. Immigration will certainly increase GDP, but reckless policy like the gov has enacted will lead to decreased in wages/GDP per capita.

I’m not asking to “close the borders” or “build a wall.” I’m asking for immigrations targets to be closer to the 250k target as opposed the 500k target of the gov for 2024/2025.

Not to mention, that with these crazy targets, you’re essentially importing people to be poor and homeless doubly so considering most immigrants at first have lower wages.

Per Stats Can

“Economic theory suggests that, at least in the short term, immigrants will boost the supply of labour in matched skill groups in the host country, increasing competition for jobs and thereby depressing the wages of the similarly-skilled in the market. Likewise, emigrants of a particular skill type will raise the wages of comparable workers left behind by decreasing the local supply of that skill type.”

-4

1mo

If you understood basic economics, you'd know that's not true. When immigrants come in, they lower the cost of production, this in turn lowers prices, and lower prices means the purchasing power of your dollar is higher, that means a HIGHER real wage. Nearly every economist agrees immigrants are good for the economy.

The reason your wage can buy as much food as it can is because of farmer immigrants, they boost the wages in terms of labor hour to food.

1mo

I literally just cited you a source from stats can saying otherwise in the short term. Whereas you have not provided any sources at any point. I don’t think immigration is bad for the economy, I believe that immigration above levels that we house and invest in infrastructure is bad.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-immigration-means-for-u-s-employment-and-wages/

1mo

Ok if you want sources:

>Because of these factors, economists have found that immigrants slightly raise the average wages of all U.S.-born workers

>https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/

https://www.marketplace.org/2023/12/12/what-immigration-actually-does-to-jobs-wages-and-more/

mCopps

1mo

Sorry but under the immigration levels we had pre Trudeau that was probably true. Canada now has one of the fastest growing populations in the world. Not the developed world the entire world. A million people plus a year isn’t sustainable without massive infrastructure investments to support them. We aren’t making these investments but bringing people in regardless.

1mo

That's true, but the overall argument that immigration lowers wages is nonsense.

TomB19

1mo

How come any talk of guest workers instantly triggers ignorant people to ask why people are prejudiced against immigration? Giving Canadian jobs to non-Canadians has zero to do with immigration. Nothing.

It's not a nuanced concept. This is something any competent adult should be capable of comprehending.

Non-Canadians come to our country, displace Canadians from jobs, and return to their home country.

While some do immigrate, this is not what people are upset about. At least, it's not what I'm upset about.

1mo

>Non-Canadians come to our country, displace Canadians from jobs, and return to their home country.

Anybody with a third grade level of economics should be able to understand why this is the worst argument I've ever heard.

Jobs are not some finite supply like Bitcoin, when immigrants or guest workers work jobs, they CREATE new jobs for Canadians.

Few-Flatworm-4293

1mo

Seriously, these are your top issues? The world is fucked.

TheSolitaryMale

1mo

I blame legal weed for people like OP.

-2

1mo

Name anything more important, oh I know it's going to be Conservative talking points about irrelevant stuff, as it always is. You are why Canada is fucked my friend.

Tallguy50

1mo

Time to change the electoral system to proportional representation. It's absurd a party can form a majority govt, with 40% of the vote

1mo

All this post tells me is that somewhere a wannabe political operative thought to himself "yeah, Reddit is where the real political voters are. Let's go talk directly to them".

Reddit skews young, and left wing. And this subreddit particularly does. And that isn't an indication of anything as polls show Poilievre is constantly polling ahead with the 18-29 crowd, a group the party has historically trailed with.

Log off. Go Touch grass.

1mo

It's a sad day for our democracy.

1mo

Sounds like someone who is butthurt and belittles instead of self-reflecting.

If the Liberals have lost popularity with a particular cohort, maybe they should explore why they lost that cohort instead of yelling at the wind.

-2

1mo

We already know why, lack of education, lack of intelligence amongst the general population, and a misplaced blame of the ignorant and hateful.

1mo

You seem like you're a big hit at parties.

yesitsiizii

-1

1mo

You see how all the pro-Trudeau accounts look like bots too half the time? I swear this must be another 4chan experiment.

People act like Poilievre's gonna be this absolute bigot, but the only thing he said was he wanted to appeal to the majority of people who prefer sex based washrooms, which happens to be a lot. But the LBGQ part of that he's absolutely said nothing on, so it's ridiculous to act like he's some hateful person. It's just downright wrong.

I remember quite a few right leaning people were upset that Pierre still supported the LGTBQ attire and message not that long ago, and he doubled down. So all of this just feels ridiculous. If he actually focuses on the housing crisis & getting rid of that awful carbon tax, then it will for sure be in my best interest that's for sure.

TomB19

1mo

I will not miss having my money sent to India or seeing Canadians laid off (having hours reduced to unlivable levels... like 4 per week) and replaced by non-Canadians.

I won't miss having my freedom of speech suspended.

I won't miss having a government creating the biggest debt burden on the country in history.

I really hope things don't shift into MAGA mode. I'd just like to see adults back out the tyranny (that wasn't hyperbole) and stop giving away money we do not have.

1mo

>I will not miss having my money sent to India or seeing Canadians laid off (having hours reduced to unlivable levels... like 4 per week) and replaced by non-Canadians.

It's not your money being sent to India

>eeing Canadians laid off (having hours reduced to unlivable levels... like 4 per week) and replaced by non-Canadians.

Then support more immigration so they can boost GDP and create more jobs.

You are already MAGA

marauderingman

1mo

There's still time for the right to implode in the US, which I hope happens with enough time prior to our own election to, pun intended, wake up and smell the coffee.

Tired8281

-1

1mo

I'm not sure even an implosion could surpass the degeneracy pressure.

Green-Thumb-Jeff

1mo

11 day old account working hard to spread division and misinformation…

LemmingPractice

-1

1mo

Lol, worst PM Canada ever had, and his retirement can't come soon enough.

bunnymunro40

1mo

You never know... The CPC might be so busy making America great again that they will forget about all of us here in Canada, including the LGBTQ1IA+.

Do you think they'll rent apartments in States or commute back and forth every day?

GunslingerofGilead82

1mo

Anyone who still supports Trudeau at this point is completely brainwashed.

1mo

You've been brainwashed by Far-Right Nazism.

GunslingerofGilead82

1mo

No, you've been brainwashed by socialism. Name a single time when socialism has worked and people's lives were better for it.

You can't, because it has never happened.

1mo

Literally every single thing good about modern society.

>public water filtration

>public sewage

>public power

>Norway's nationalized oil

>Pentagon technology funding

>NASA

>Public garbage pickup

>Public dumps and recycling centers

GunslingerofGilead82

1mo

I asked you to give me an example of a successful socialist government. You rambled on about government subsidized programs that operate at inflated costs. You have not provided me with an appropriate example.

These 'examples' that you have given are publicly funded or subsidized programs that exist within a capitalist society.

Ah yes, I'm sure the $70 million dollars/day of tax money that NASA receives has really improved everyone's lives. The same could be said of the Pentagon, which has publicly admitted to being unable to account for multiple trillions of dollars...twice.

Most, if not all of the contracts that the government awards to private companies, are grossly inflated and then some of this money is laundered back to the politicians. There a is why nearly every liberal MP, and especially Trudeau and Freeland have had their personal net worth grow exponentially higher than their fixed salaries can account for.

Liberal politicians love socialism because it gives them the appearance of being virtuous while having no virtue at all. All the whole, their corrupt nature allows them to asset more power and control over the people they were elected to govern, while continuously taxing these people to a point that the people become dependent on them for survival, while the corrupt politicians continue to get richer.

People who support a socialist government are lazy, weak-minded, weak-willed people that just want the government to be an extension of the parents and 'take care' of them, and their needs. Much like the government they love, they want to appear virtuous while having none at all and they will readily give up any and all liberty for some false sense of security.

Socialism ensures, not that everyone has the same amount of wealth, but they are equally impoverished, and this has occurred in every single socialist government that has ever existed.

While this may be complicated for you to understand, you need only ask yourself, as does everyone in this quickly declining country, if your life and the lives of others has improved, stayed the same, or gotten worse under the tyranny of this half-wit dictator.

And finally, if you love socialism so much, there is a simple solution that doesn't involve you imposing your will on others; move to a socialist country and see how it works out for you. May I suggest Venezuela?

P.S. you implied that I am a 'far-right Nazi', yet you are so ignorant that you do not even know the definition of Nazi. It means National Socialist party.

Spoiler alert: you are the Nazi.

The ignorant are often the most arrogant.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-how-did-ottawa-spend-more-than-600-billion-last-year/

1mo

>I asked you to give me an example of a successful socialist government. You rambled on about government subsidized programs that operate at inflated costs. You have not provided me with an appropriate example.

I gave you example of aspects of our society that are socialist and work beautifully. If you just want me to list countries, ok.. the United States, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Germany, etc.

>These 'examples' that you have given are publicly funded or subsidized programs that exist within a capitalist society.

A truly capitalist society would have privatized those institutions

>Ah yes, I'm sure the $70 million dollars/day of tax money that NASA receives has really improved everyone's lives. The same could be said of the Pentagon, which has publicly admitted to being unable to account for multiple trillions of dollars...twice.

Yes, im sure they "lost" the money, it's not being used for Black Operations.

>People who support a socialist government are weak-minded, weak-willed people that just want the government to be an extension of the parents and 'take care' of them, and their needs.

You're the one who wants to be a a billionnaire who pays the workers nothing and lives off their backs, instead of actually work like an adult. That to me is childlike.

>Socialism ensures, not that everyone has the same amount of wealth, but they are equally impoverished, and this has occurred in every single socialist government that has ever existed.

Norwegians are some of the wealthiest people on earth.

>While this may be complicated for you to understand, you need only ask yourself, as does everyone in this quickly declining country, if your life and the lives of others has improved, stayed the same, or gotten worse under the tyranny of this half-wit dictator.

It's gotten a lot worse under Dictator Smith and the far-right NIMBYism of the Conservatives.

>And finally, if you love socialism so much, there is a simple solution that doesn't involve you imposing your will on others; move to a socialist country and see how it works out for you. May I suggest Venezuela?

Because i love Canada, although I do want to move to Sweden. If you want capitalism, move to Somalia or Congo.

>P.S. you implied that I am a 'far-right Nazi', yet you are so ignorant that you do not even know the definition of Nazi. It means National Socialist party.

You don't even know what Nazis were, Nazis were the ruling Party in Germany during WORLD WAR 2, they were led by a man named Adolf Hitler. Look him up, read about him. It's as far right as they get.

Ok_Attitude7158

1mo

public education, health care, disability supports, $10 daycare, homeless shelters, food banks, public transit, ...

TheSolitaryMale

1mo

I like Miss Trudeau as well. Only PM who cares about the ongoing, intentional, trucker-led genocide of over 12-billion trans people in Canada codified into law by Stephen Harper.

AmirT0

1mo

"MAGAland"...lol so let's just have these radical leftist-woke LIB/NDP Government forever.... a change is good in democracies

saras998

1mo

Trudeau has decimated the healthcare system, expanded MAiD to “take care” of said victims of healthcare neglect, despises the working class and very much increased inflation with his overspending and sending billions to Ukraine, allows violent offenders to hurt even more people and wants to censor the internet with Bill C-63, even to the point with putting people under house arrest for pre-crimes.

https://ccla.org/press-release/ccla-urges-substantial-amendments-to-the-online-harms-act/

https://theccf.ca/tell-your-mp-to-stop-bill-c-63/

1mo

We would easily be able to afford sending more to Ukraine if we taxed high earners more and stopped putting so many people in jail.

BobbyKnightRider

-1

1mo

Sadly, but deservedly, he is reaping what he sowed.

No leader sublimated the identity of self with the party to the degree Trudeau did in 2015. “Team Trudeau” and all that jazz. Beyond optics, he also continued Haprer’s more background trend centralization of parliamentary power in the PMO’s office. Make yourself the party, and all of the hate is going to flow to you.

He also spent many years doing well for himself by transforming political discourse in the country into the photo-op, the sound bite and the Instagram post. And that is how he is now being whittled down.

Kingraj72

-2

1mo

Hahahaha. You’ll miss seeing the country run into the ground! Good for you!

wealthychef369

-7

1mo

Trudeau colluded with a communist dictatorship allowing for interference in a federal election (According to our own intelligence agency CSIS) and took 80k vacations on the taxpayers dime.

He’s like the neoliberal, sanctimonious version of Trump; different but just as bad.

DonSalaam

1mo

Conservatives have lost four consecutive federal elections. They are a noisy group of weirdos but they are not a majority.

1mo

The Conservative Party has received more votes than the Liberals in every election from 2006 until the present except for once and that is 2015.

Conservatives: 2006 2008 2011 2019 2021 If Polls hold: 2025

Liberals: 2015

The literal only thing that has kept Trudeau PM is the first past the post system. But sure just keep believing that it's some fringe group you can just ignore.

DonSalaam

1mo

What a bunch of BS. The extremists are on track to lose another successive federal election in two years.

haddonfield89

1mo

Lopsided elections in Alberta and Sask skew those numbers quite a bit. The CPC get more total votes because the morons in my neck of the woods would see a rotting head of cabbage get 75% of the votes in the riding. Michelle Rempel is my MP, she won by over 15k last time.

65% of the electorate in the last couple elections voted for either the left center liberals or another left wing party or the Bloc. If you went to ranked choice voting the conservatives would never win an election in this country again. Opening up the democratic process never favours conservatives. A complete LPC collapse is usually their only path to power.

dekusyrup

1mo

If we got rid of first past the post we would just end up with less conservatives. All the lefties would vote something like 1-2-3 green, NDP, liberal, and all those votes would fold up to the leftist candidate winning instead of conservative candidate winning by vote splitting.

Check it out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2021_Canadian_federal_election_by_riding

Look at all the ridings and imagine all the green and NDP and liberal votes lumped in with one lefty candidate (and PPC with the blues) and the conservatives are losing like 2 dozen more seats. Just look at any seat the conservatives won with 44% or less and count those as leftist seats.

wadude

-24

1mo

I am a wealthy man, i cannot wait until PP and his Conservatives take over They are my people They will take good care of me I am tired of paying so much in taxes every year

Historical_Cow3903

1mo

If you're wealthy, you can afford to pay taxes.

TidpaoTime

1mo

Okidoky123

1mo

Amicable would be to have a sense of responsibility towards the society you are part of and that you indirectly benefit from. Selfish leads to libertarianism which leads to anarchy. Careful what you wish you for.

haddonfield89

1mo

Just reveling in being a massively selfish piece of shit.

-42

1mo

And this is what I call an intelligent Canadian. Good to see there's some others who aren't suckered in by Conservative jargon, they play the same game everytime and all they do is screw the working class

we_the_pickle

1mo

You forget to change accounts?

suicidedaydream

1mo

Ahahahahahahaha didn’t switch accounts and then complimented their own intelligence! r/redditmoment

Scummiest_Vessel

1mo

😂

Okidoky123

1mo

I agree it's super tacky and disingenuous.

However, the points are still valid. Incomplete, but many good points.
PP is all about division, divide and conquer, sowing hate, conditioning people to hate, validating hate. Pure and utter bigotry. Little to zero constructive action. Mostly only ever criticizes the opposition.
And gullible fools fall for it. I don't, because I am intelligent enough to see what's going on and how things work.

Opening-Ad8300

1mo

Nobody is refuting the points, but it’s pretty pathetic that this guy is so desperate for support on their opinion that they tried to garner false support for it.