It just dawned on me why therapy has never worked for me

CBTs main premise is that your psychological problems are based on faulty or unhelpful ways of thinking. CBT therapists try to get you to change the way you think about yourself and your problems to get your to change your behavior.

The problem with this for people with trauma?

It’s not merely a THINKING issue. It is a physiological one. It is deeply embedded in our autonomic nervous system to respond the way we do. It is not a matter of THINKING. it is a matter of SURVIVING.

This is why CBT was incredibly unhelpful for me.

It took me years of CBT to realize this. I kept getting worse, not better.

I did nearly 9 years of DBT (after and 14 years of plain ol’ cbt) - which is a form of CBT, too. It did help, in some ways. It stopped my major problem behaviors - self harm, drug use, eating disorder behavior, etc. It also taught me a lot of very valuable skills about emotion regulation, mindfulness and more.

It wasn’t until I got connected to an honest to goodness trauma therapist that I started to really address my problems. None of my other therapists ever got into my trauma. They knew about it, but not in any detail. They didn’t get into the weeds about it. They diagnosed me with everything BUT ptsd….

Now I have a proper diagnosis. I have a therapist I feel understood by. I feel seen and heard.

So yeah.

Try it.

I agree and have gone through something similar myself. If a therapist is even slightly good at their job, PTSD (CPTSD) should be one of the first things they check for when childhood trauma is involved. However, like you, all the ones I saw growing up somehow missed my diagnoses even though I suffered pretty extreme abuse. I also feel like more therapists should be upfront with their limitations and be knowledgeable enough to suggest different types of therapy that could possibly be beneficial. I dont really have any good advice or anything, but I do hear you and understand where you're coming from.

"It all stemmed from somewhere and I'm starting to think the majority of my problems stemmed from my very extensive childhood trauma!! Yet out of all the therapists, psychologists, and psychiatrists I've seen...none of them recognized it. None of them ever helped me in a meaningful and lasting way." Oof, this hit me hard. And "It wasn't my job to open up the eyes of licensed therapists and psychologists that maybe, just maybe there was more to my problems than a chemical imbalance or a cynical view of the world. It wasn't my fault they couldn't help me." Spot on!

I had trauma-informed therapy after I became an adult, and that's how I got diagnosed with PTSD (because the shitty DSM5 doesn't have C-PTSD). But every other therapist and psychiatrist I was ever taken to either mis-diagnosed me (which led my mother to over-medicate me on purpose with drugs I shouldn't have even been on), and ignored me about my mother's abuse. None of the "professionals" I was taken to even considered trauma or abuse in spite of me reporting severe psychological abuse at the hands of my family and showing severe signs of PTSD and even OSDD back as a minor. In regards to therapists in specific, they all used CBT to try to convince me that my abusive mother "wasn't" abusive. It was technically gaslighting and extremely cruel, and turned me off CBT for life.

I'm not proud to admit I thoroughly bit the head off my trauma therapist as an adult when she tried to use CBT on me on the first session- I was convinced she was going to gaslight and invalidate me like all the other CBT therapists my abusive mom hired. Thankfully, she never used CBT on me again, and when I opened up about my mother's abuse, she told me she suspected my mother had untreated NPD and Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy, and was horrified when I told her about how badly my former therapists and psychiatrists mishandled me.

Good therapists are out there, but in my personal experience, they're in the minority. And CBT is absolutely horrific for C-PTSD (in my experience). The problem isn't that we're having random cognitive distortions for no reason, our brains are different because of ongoing trauma most people (and probably most CBT therapists) cannot wrap their minds around.

Anyway, I relate to your post a lot even though there were some aspects of my life that were different. I hope you'll be able to find a competent trauma-informed therapist (if you want that one day), but if you can't do therapy again, I do not blame you after the therapy abuse/therapy neglect you went through. Speaking of which, if you haven't already, I recommend the therapyabuse subreddit if you need additional safe places to vent about therapy.

Trauma therapy should be the thing that people start with - instead it seems to be what people come to after CBT fails them. I'm sorry this happened to you!

It wasn’t until I got connected to a trauma therapist that I was able to start untangling things and getting it right in my head. CBT didn’t work and I spent years in it, no change. I didn’t realise what I needed to work on was trauma because I was so deep in the fog and now that I’m where I am today i so deeply wish I had gone the route of trauma therapy in the first place. It would have gotten me a lot farther than I am today in picking up the pieces after they all fell apart in the last year.

I can relate to this so closely.

You are completely correct for my money, and I've had very similar reactions to therapy.

I have told my story to countless people, including at least 6 'therapists', and my 'story' has never changed. You know why? Because it was a faithful retelling of what happened to me.

Now, I have a small amount of forgiveness for them because cPTSD is a relatively 'new' diagnosis.

However no-one over the 25+ years I have been talking to professionals about my problems have even mentioned 'regular' PTSD or trauma. And that makes me so angry that I don't have the words to express it.

Our health systems need a massive shakeup and the entire idea of trauma and it's effects needs to be reassessed.

Your realisation is not an easy one, but there are those of us here that understand because we've realised it too. Keep pushing and use your new knowledge to inform your future searches for therapy.

Good luck x

The first thing I said to my therapist at my very first session was “just because I’m here doesn’t mean it’s going to help. Every therapist before you has been awful. I don’t expect this to be any different”

Jokes on me. 3 years later, a lot of work and silence and tears and back pedaling and all the growth has landed me in a place where I check in every six weeks and soon we are looking to pause therapy. Because I’ve gotten better. Not because my therapist is shitty. I don’t remember why I tried again, when I didn’t believe in therapy. But I’m grateful that I did.

I have CPTSD and I’m also training to become a therapist.

CBT being taught as top-tier therapy has always frustrated me. It’s absolutely effective for some populations, particularly those suffering from cognitive distortions and anxiety. But for those of us with trauma, we already feel like we can’t trust our thoughts and feelings. We feel wrong for them as it is. CBT, to me, has always just reinforced this idea that everything I think and am is wrong and I am the problem at the root of it all. I honestly think it can do more harm than good for those with trauma.

I've always seen cbt as just consentually gaslighting yourself lmao

I'm so sorry that happened. It was my experience too. I wasted so many years in CBT, when if I had seen someone who understood DBT or polyvagal theory, I could have actually started getting help.

CBT comes with the presumption that you've basically got your shit together, you need brief intervention to deal with a specific problem.

If you don't have your shit together, for example, raised by narcissists and not trained in any sort of healthy life coping, CBT is shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. If you had trauma before any sort of serious training in life skills (proper emotional regulation being most important), you first have to learn these life skills. CBT is entirely unequipped to handle that.

I don't think CBT failed you, it was the therapists who didn't realize they were out of their league and failed to refer you to a properly trained therapist. CBT shouldn't have even been on the table as a treatment modality.

You are absolutely right! This is on them, not on you!

​

(I am in the process of firing my counsellor, who, as far as I can see, is only using a CBT-based approach).

I hear you. CBT does nothing to stop the abuse. If an adult really wants to be helpful to a minor experiencing ongoing trauma, the first step should be removing said minor from the abusive situation and getting them somewhere safe.

CBT basically says the "problem" is the way the patient thinks about and responds to the abusive situation that is the problem. When in reality being in the abusive situation is the problem. Nothing you could change about the way you think or respond was ever going to stop the abuse. That was complete bullshit.

I also started with the CBT path and the whole premise that I felt from it was that somehow my brain got "unhelpful thoughts" and "distorted thinking patterns" which now I have to correct. That maybe my brain malfunctioned, those errors cause me anxiety and now I have to fix these mistakes.

I just felt worse and worse. More invalidated. More misunderstood. The fact of the matter is, its just plain wrong to call those "distorted". They only appear distorted in the context of healthy relationships. Put them where they were born, in the middle of hate, shouting, fire and darkness and you'll see all of them fit right in like a protective shield and sword. They are perfect for the environment that created them, not for the environment we want to go. At no point should they be called distorted or unhelpful. People pleasing, is very helpful for a child in the middle of abusers. Black and white thinking develops because abusers literally think in black and white. Our catastrophizing, is not catastrophizing. Our lives were filled with drama, shouting, hate. Every little thing could indeed become a catastrophe. We are not catastrophizing, we are extrapolating with very good odds, at least in the past, based on our valid reality. We come to expect all of these. They are not distorted. It was our reality for years. I could go on ad infinitum.

And CBT is a behavioral therapy. It focuses on treating symptoms. But as we all know, symptoms aren't treated. Only managed. What is treated are diseases, bacteria, viruses etc. In the same way, behaviors are to fever like trauma is to a virus. We can keep the fever down all we want, but unless we get rid of the virus, the fever come up as soon as the management stops.

Like Gabor Mate says, a lot of therapy unfortunately is based on dealing with the question "What's wrong with you?" instead of the rightful one "What happened to you?"

100%. I gently broke up with my therapist today because though she's trained in EMDR, her primary focus is in psychodynamic therapy and I realized in the past couple of months that what I really need and respond to is somatic therapies. I am forever grateful to her because she at least recognized we should focus on EMDR right away when we began working together and I made a ton of progress past some of the larger traumas and triggers I had because of that. More in 1 year than in 4 years of talk therapy elsewhere prior to her. It was a total fluke that I found her and I would not have discovered it on my own otherwise.

It was helpful to be vulnerable in front of another person, but overall talk therapy made me view my brain as an enemy, reinforced the disconnection between it and my body/emotions, and exacerbated my OCD and perfectionist tendencies by inadvertently encouraging rumination.

It seems like there is a shift happening in therapy as the conversation around CPTSD has expanded so much and the modalities to treat it have broadened and matured. I'm sorry you had such awful experiences when you were younger; I hope you can find something that works for you now.

That was therapy for me as well. Even as an adult

CBT isn't for everyone is one of my favourite rants. Personally I find CBT incredibly invalidating.

My favourite talk therapist didn't have a strict style. His style was probably most in line with Schema with a splash of DBT. Super gentle and super focused on helping me fulfill my current needs, only using the cause of my trauma as an explanation for my reactions when he felt I needed it (again, very gently).

For myself, I wouldn't feel comfortable participating in a therapy focused on taking me back to my trauma. I really like therapy which focuses on the now - helping me building my support network, helping me with boundaries, helping me understand what need is not being fulfilled etc

I feel like I needed to mourn the loss of what my trauma took from me and learn the skills I missed out on.

Yeah, I had a similar experience with therapy and psychiatry - everyone defaulted to CBT or neuroleptics, which didn't bloody do anything except make things worse. Fuck, a lot of the abuse I've survived was from psychiatrists and psychologists. Ineffectual, sometimes even harmful, approaches to treatment just compounded existing trauma and further diminished trust there.

It's been a very different experience with a therapist who specializes in trauma (and shares my values on things like social/racial justice). She's had good ideas for working through things and having healthier strategies for coping. It's actually been very helpful. Covid has hurt that somewhat, as talking to her remotely doesn't really have the same effect (part of it, I think, is how safe her office feels), but it's still therapy that's finally beneficial for me.

Sorry you've gone through the ringer on this, too. I hope you've found more helpful resources, now.

This, so much. Thank you for opening up this conversation. CBT-type strategies work for me for a period, then everything just crashes and burns, lol. Any suggestion beginning with "tell yourself..." is enough to send me into a cognitively-fuelled downward spiral. The problem isn't that I'm not intellectually sound or incapable of rational thinking; the problem is I'm still having these emotional flashbacks and trigger responses IN SPITE of being fully capable of rationalising everything in my head - hence the endless thought loops, ruminative cycles, arguing and counter-arguing with my thinking mind, analysing and processing and picking apart every single one of my cognitive inaccuracies, then beating myself up for being completely incapable of following through with these "tell yourself" prescriptions. Attempts at "positive self-talk" are enough to trigger me to into an intense meltdown and I'm not touching those with a ten foot pole. I've been in CBT mode all my life in order to survive and make sense of everything intellectually. And right now, the last thing I want is to go deeper into a cognition-focused state and pick apart more of my thoughts. Getting out of my head and into my body has been a far more grounding and calming experience when I'm in a state of intense or extended emotional flashbacks.

You're absolutely right OP, I'm so glad that you came to this realization. It took me a long, long time to come around myself and the more CBT I was exposed to, the more irritated licensed therapists made it feel as if I was the problem for not getting better with their "just journal, meditate, and recognize the thought always comes first", the more I felt broken.

Having professionals who helped me realize that an abnormal response to an abnormal situation is a normal response, that complex trauma is often worsened by cognitive-based/top-down approaches in many ways (even if some symptom alleviation occurs), and that even recognizing complex trauma can be triggering for professionals, was eye opening for me. I'm reading a somatic psychotherapy book right now and I almost want to cry at how empathetic, in a useful way, the therapist is. Helping people and also going "you don't have to share with me what happened, we can still get you some relief" is just..mind boggling.

I still get argued with on the regular with people who go "oh, trauma thinks it's so special" or "no no you just don't understand cbt" no I get it. I get it, and it's important to recognize that most of its research and application chose to exclude individuals with complex trauma, that complex trauma has a much different outcome and efficacy pattern, and that practitioners sometimes don't fully understand the why and how. The science is still relatively young compared to so much extensive research elsewhere. It's absolutely critical that we stop treating individuals like they are 'failing therapy' and not applying themselves versus inappropriately applying interventions and solutions.

CBT also made me feel like I was failing therapy as an adult. Although that therapist diagnosed me with PTSD, they really didn't help much and ultimately were harming. The only progress I've made is with actual trauma therapists using EMDR. Most recently, SAFE, Somatic Attachment-Focused EMDR, has been the most helpful at integrating enough that I can verbalize what I experienced without shutting down.

What you experienced sounds awful and I hope you can take some validation and comfort from the community here holding your story in compassion.

This is a great topic, thank you, and it wasn’t your fault 🙏🏻 I also realized not long ago that after spending a lifetime living from the “neck up” I’d have to get in touch with what’s going on in my body if I want to heal. 50 years of fear shame and terror embedded in my nervous system causing me to spend most of my days managing my emotions in order to get to a baseline where I can function. My “trauma informed/trained” therapist is wonderful and it is amazing to have validation that it’s not my fault I’m this way. However, this work is slow. My therapist lets me talk a bit but soon enough stops me and directs me to go inward. Getting in touch with “parts” of myself that are running the show is not easy. When my nervous system is completely hijacked it’s difficult. But, I trust the process.

Yeah...cbt is not the best approach for trauma and can kind of be really invalidating for it

Trauma responds really well to psychodynamic, relational, attachment, humanistic, and mindful approaches.

Thank you for posting this. I identify with it so much, and I’ve only just found out about CPTSD tonight

I found CBT to be enormously helpful for some of my faulty thought patterns that arose from my trauma and I think I may have conflated the two before. IFS work has started to help with the emotional aspects of CPTSD for me, CBT help me pick apart the deeply screwed up “logical” automatic thoughts I have about myself and hold them up for some scrutiny in the light of day. I don’t think I ever could have gotten there without the framework of CBT, but it is definitely not something I think should be the go-to first thing out of the toolkit therapy for people dealing with trauma, by a long shot.

Interestingly, and I’m literally only just realizing this, I think having the “guardrails” of CBT to rely upon was probably what helped me let my guard down just a millimetre or two to actually feel some of my feelings, and start the long hard slog of the really messy work. I was never allowed to express any pain, fear, anger, etc., so getting in touch with my feelings was a terrifying process (and still is); I bet that’s why having something more rigid and intellectually-oriented, rather than feeling-oriented, appealed to me. It’s much more detached, or can be, at least for me.

I’m not in therapy at the moment and should be (and have benefits that are going to waste, more the fool me). I don’t know how I would go about finding a therapist other than via trial and error, and sometimes the issues just seem so insurmountable that it’s hard to even know where to start, so I just don’t.

This hits close, I have seen multiple therapists over the years and have been misdiagnosed and only offered medication and CBT. I never wanted to bother with medication because Id much rather get to the root of the problem then mask it. I did however do CBT because I didnt even know there were other options when it comes to therapy because no one ever told me. My experience with it has been awful and in hindsight it made my problems worse. All it thought me is that I cant trust myself when my body or instinct says something is wrong and that I should just positive think myself out of it or at least ignore the signs. It put me into some pretty dangerous self harming situations because I became that numb to what my own body was telling me after being invalidated for so long, most of my childhood abuse was psychological and was centered around stress and my needs being violated so CBT was just the final blow. It wasnt up untill very recent that I went back to therapy untill someone told me about EMDR which I am on the waiting list for now. I also got diagnosed with CPTSD and PTSD replacing my old diagnosis and I finally feel like my life is making sense and why nothing I tried seemed to work despite how hard I tried. I am mad for how long this took and why no one saw the signs even though they are supposed to be professionals.

Psychiatrists, in my experience, are very happy to diagnose you, the patient as having something wrong with you. It allows them to ignore everything in your environment and all of your past experiences, except for the last two weeks, which they need to look at for the diagnosis of depression.

And it doesn't help that (in my experience). Most cbt therapists are willing to say they "work with trauma" then get flummoxed when the methods aren't bringing relief. They just keep asking circular questions and it triggered a panic attack... Then they would dump me. I'm good with therapy. Moreso, I'm done with the assholes in the therapy "profession". (My experience only) I've felt better since I've stopped therapy all together honestly.

Yea agree CBT is so limiting, I saw therapists on and off for 2 decades before being properly diagnosed for ptsd (cptsd) by a disability specialist, previously they had misdiagnosed me with BP2 for years, they’re literally just guessing at what’s wrong with you. I have started seeing a somatic therapist and doing plant medicine since then and have found it extremely helpful.

Therapy hasn't helped me either. I've been through DBT, CBT, and a variety of other ones like ACT and dozen of medications. I'm not even sure if I truly have truama or that I'm just kind of unable to learn anything from therapy. I was diagnosed as schizoid and most of my therapists agreed that I am. I went in for something different (my depression) and came out with that instead. Honestly it does paint a better picture of why I am this way, but I still haven't been able to address the core part of my issues and none of my therapists can help me with it. Most of my depression now comes from the fact that I have no skills, talents or hobbies and no matter what, I just can't seem to get into them because of apathy and the tendency to compare myself to others. Haven't found a formula to fix that. And because of where I live, I kind of don't have the option to look for therapists...I'd have to travel over 4 hours just to see one and I physically can't do that.

Wow this hit home. Your exactly right. I'm 32yrs old, this is the first year in my life that I remembered my repressed childhood and realized I had CPTSD.

So I found a therapist who specializes in trauma, and after a few months, found a psychiatrist.

They always ask "what medications have you taken, have you been to therapy before" and I explain it doesn't matter what I've taken or how much therapy because i was still living and speaking to my main abuser (mother). That I've only just gone no contact. any and all results from previous mental health professionals were under the impression I just had anxiety and depression, not that i had these things because of my abuse.

The system....failed us. Instead of the therapists seeing our behavior for what it was, they were under the false notion that we ourselves would just say at the beginning "oh no my parents are abusing me, thats why things suck" and when we didn't they skipped ahead to just assuming it was a malfunction of ourselves.

Our responses to trauma are not a malfunction though. We responded how one would think a human would respond to trauma, adversely. CPTSD is your body and minds way of telling you "we're being hurt, mayday" (is that how you spell mayday? Like a plane going down?)

You may have other issues like myself (bipolar and substance abuse) but those things didn't cover the full picture. If you squint, you can kinda get them to fit. But it doesn't explain why I black out when im being yelled at, you know?

They did fail you, and now you'll just have to do it yourself, probably much like everything else in your life. I hated therapy and was always angry that I was made to believe there was something inherently flawed inside of me. But the therapy I'm in now is a God send.

Several times my therapist has pulled me back from the abyss and reminded me to be patient and gentle with myself. I don't know that i could have made it this last year without her, she's amazing and do you want to know why?

She believes me. She sees my behaviors for the trauma responses they are.

Give trauma therapy a try. Make sure to find a therapist who specializes in trauma. It could change your life, literally

I have some experience with therapists, I don't actually appreciate their sessions with me. In my own situation, I have always the worst self-respect and self-protection, I think the more I go to therapist, the more they make me think I am actually meaningless and hard to open up.

Therapist is not a kind of solution to my trauma, the more I care about the opinions about myself, the more I can hardly open up.

I think clients should have rights not to talk when they are not comfortable with their opinions about things. It is like: I am getting forced to talk to the therapist or else they can't help me. But the worst part is that the main trauma I have is expressing difficulty.

I don't have too much to talk in therapy, I don't actually talk about my feelings, I don't actually open up and drop tears, the more I don't want to open up, the more money I've spent in sessions, because I need longer time to open up, I need to buy more sessions, while I can not afford it.

Some people always say that counselor is the most expensive trauma healing teacher, I believe.

I don't actually want to buy that much sessions, my budget has met its limitation, and the more I don't want to show my emotions to the therapist, the more I think I have issues. It really disappointed myself.

I don't actually want to peel my defense off, it is impossible, a lot of time with therapists they are not warm at all, they talk you like you are a client and patient that need to be cured. The only path is just take their hands and walk through the process. But no, I don't actually like to talk with therapists, they scared me, they really do, they make me think that I ain't loveable because I have really bad experience with human beings, but they really don't actually give me any warm words that I need, they just analyst me and want me to open up, while it is really miserable to me.

CBT and DBT are massive triggers for me because they were (are still) literally used as abusive practices in the TTI where my parents sent me to be “fixed”… I totally get it. Those therapies change thoughts about certain things, but never the external forces really turning the screws.

This is why I'm so grateful for my current therapist. She listens and pays attention and utilizes things from different types of therapy work. She changes between CBT, behavioral, etc depending on what is most bothering me at that time. And honestly, I feel like more therapists should do that type of stuff. Different types of therapy and therapists aren't a one size fits all.

I encourage people to go to therapy, but I understand the trial and error that cones with trying to find a therapist that fits. I understand that some people don't have the time or energy to go through that. I sincerely hope that more places like Urban Balance pop up to help figure ease the whole finding a good therapist thing, but until then:

People that are over the moon about therapy and big on "everyone needs therapy" should 100% be considerate and understanding to people who choose not to. We are very lucky to find good therapists that fit us, but not everyone is so lucky and for others it could be decades before they find someone. Be respectful to the people who choose to opt out of it

I won't be doing CBT again any time soon. I've been feeling as though I lost all faith in therapy, but really I've just lost all faith in CBT. I was referred by the VA to do DBT, but because of COVID the therapist just ended up doing CBT. I've tried EMDR a couple of times, but it was never with a trauma informed therapist. It was with someone who initially wanted to do CBT. I need something else. Trauma-informed therapy seems like the way to go.

I've had 20 years of failed therapy and finally found a good one a couple of years ago. She has studied, and continues to study, how to help the body physically process and move forward from trauma without the patient reliving it. Therapists that insist on reliving trauma with patients are retraumatizing them and associating therapy with said trauma making therapy itself a traumatic experience.

You shouldn't be judged for your experiences. It wasn't your job to make therapy a good environment. I'm sorry that you were failed in something so important. I wish you well in the future.

It all stemmed from somewhere and I'm starting to think the majority of my problems stemmed from my very extensive childhood trauma!! Yet out of all the therapists, psychologists, and psychiatrists I've seen...none of them recognized it. None of them ever helped me in a meaningful and lasting way. None of them even had the thought occur to them, "Wow, this 14 year old girl was just almost killed by her classmates and she's already being introduced to very mature sexual acts...all of this may be too much for her and she's having a trauma response!" Exactly! Some of us seem to be diagnosed with everything under the sun, others go to professionals who have one set opinion and aren't open for anything else - and no one considers trauma.

I realized that I have a deep-seated discomfort, anger, shame, and overall disappointment towards therapy because I was never treated for what I was really going through. I had no one in my life who was trauma-informed in the slightest. And now I'm a complete fucking trainwreck with years and years of more piled up trauma to sort through.

I didn't fail in therapy. The type of therapy I was receiving failed me. I was young. I was a child. I was in constant distress and I was always being attacked and preyed on. It wasn't my job to open up the eyes of licensed therapists and psychologists that maybe, just maybe there was more to my problems than a chemical imbalance or a cynical view of the world. It wasn't my fault they couldn't help me.

This resonnated with my experience as well. Thank you for speaking out.

I can never understand that behaviour that's referred to at school as "bullying" in the adult world is called sexual assault, bodily harm, abuse etc... and taken more seriously??

Kids are at an age where they're developing so it's even more harmful to them! Honestly I think it's just a power imbalance - no-one has to listen to a kid, and it makes teachers/adults lives easier to ignore and downplay it.

I went to countless therapists, even when I was a tween my mother sent me to therapy on the grounds "she's depressed, she's always hiding in her room", and most of my therapists kept coming back to there being nothing wrong with me except low self esteem.

I never talked about what happened to me at home. In fact, if I talk one on one in person with someone I never even reveal I have family and that can go on for years. It wasn't until my mother passed away that I started to talk about what happened to me as a child with someone through my work benefits. I had something like 5 or 10 sessions with her. I believe she's who had me get an official diagnosis but my memories from that time in my life are fuzzy. I was reading old emails between me and a friend that I was sending at the time and I came across stuff about how upset I was because I believed I'd been misdiagnosed. I spent several days taking this test and then doing an interview.

After it was done I was asked if I wanted to know their diagnosis for me and I said ok. I was told I had severe anxiety, depression and ptsd-nos. I believed the depression and anxiety but felt like the PTSD was wrong because I was never in the military. So I decided to work on treating the depression and the anxiety, which felt accurate, which lead to me working through CBT. I guess it helped in some ways but I'd be out doing something random, get triggered AF and all those "skills" got lost in some fog. Then I'd spend a month shame spiraling. So I quit that therapist and went on this really long journey trying to find a new one.

Unfortunately I didn't get one before covid hit but fortunately during the pandemic I had some time on my hands to actually look at my PTSD diagnosis a little more. I think therapy probably works but I've not had enough of the right therapy to know. I do think I might be a bit of a lost cause though - apparently my abuse is pretty wildly off the charts.

I think this isn’t talked about enough and it’s more common than people realize. I also did CBT and it did help with specific goal oriented things, but my trauma was also never addressed and I felt that it was often glossed over. I don’t want to say it was dismissed, but that’s how I often felt at times. I had to do tons of my own research to realize that what I needed was a trauma Informed therapist. I think more professionals who frequently encounter vulnerable members of the population should be trauma Informed. PARTICULARLY, those that work with children because that age old idea that children are more “resilient” is a myth and a harmful one. Doctors, Social Workers, Teachers, ext should all be trauma informed. I work with troubled youth at a school and I suspect many of them are suffering from trauma. However, many of my co-workers address them incorrectly and trigger the hell out of them. I try to be as therapeutic and compassionate as possible in my Approach. It kills me sometimes because some of these kids will more than likely never get the support and help they need either. You’re right when you say that the professionals around you failed you. I see it happening right now before my eyes, and I feel powerless to stop it. It’s hard some days because there’s so much bureaucratic bullshit that thwarts these kids from getting what they need. It’s ironic because I don’t want kids because of all of My childhood trauma, yet seeing what some of these kids go through makes me want to adopt them. But all I can do is advocate for them the best I can, and let them know that I’m in their corner and fighting for them.

Behavioral approaches to therapy don't strike me as particularly effective against PTSD diagnoses. Because the issue isn't your behavior, it's processing your trauma. So a processing approach is a lot more helpful.

I read a book called The Body Keeps Score about ptsd and cptsd. Talk therapy can actually make the trauma worse for people with these issues (myself included) there is a therapy that is called edmr therapy (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing) I’ve heard it has really high success rates with people like us that have cptsd! I’m hoping to give it a try eventuall..

If you haven’t already come across it look up IFS (internal family systems) it’s incredible for trauma

i’m so glad you’ve realized this. i got sooo frustrated with hearing “cbt is the most effective tx for ptsd” over and over and over. but every time i would try with a “ptsd expert” i felt invalidated to the point of nausea and never wanting to go back. i think this is largely because most ptsd research is focused on veterans, which is a totally different trauma structure. and cbt measures “effectiveness” in regards to functioning, rather than true deep healing (which is hard to quantify).

i agree therapy is not the only one way. but for me having a psychodynamic therapist i actually like and feel care from has done wonders. she’s cried for me and told me she loves me. some might say that’s “inappropriate” but for me, it’s changed my life. that, and trauma-specific approaches like Lifespan Development and EMDR.

I had to complain about CBT until they finally got me in office to do EMDR. I'm only a few sessions in, so I can't really say yet. I have two friends with very traumatic histories who have been doing EMDR for a while though, and one absolutely hated talk therapy because it was reopening wounds with no real benefit to her. I've been struggling with CBT for over a year but kept trying, and now that I've finally gotten them to start EMDR I'm hopeful that I can start actually making progress. We'll see though.

I fully agree with this. CBT effectiveness rate is probably about 10%. It works for those people who don’t have any neuroses or trauma. They simply have not learned how to do something or learned something unproductive. It is basically a learned behavior type of therapy. Think Pavlov’s dogs who were “taught” to salivate upon a bell ring.

When it comes to therapy for deep childhood (and even transpersonal) issues, a much heavy artillery of tools is needed. Such an instrument must necessarily be able to access deep layers of the mind (subconsciousness and unconsciousness) as well as the body, which is basically the same as unconsciousness. Accessing these deep layers is the only way to address the root issues in the work on trauma and systems of condensed experience. What are some examples of such tools? For me they have been trance and hypnosis (hypnotherapy), Holotropic breathwork (and other breathing techniques), meditative retreats (think Goenka’s Vipassana and so on). In addition to the just listed, I would also add hatha-yoga as a way to access the body and work with it. In fact, I would start with the body, if possible. Some combination of the above gave me solid and promising results. I am encouraged and am looking forward to doing more of this work.

If you have questions, I’d be happy to share my experience in PM.

I completely agree. Therapy was generally traumatizing for me as a teen and young woman, with some therapists trying to make me relive experiences and triggering me to blackout or just start screaming and lose touch with reality. I did not know that I had been molested and raped as a child until I was 24. I don’t think my mother meant to keep it from me, she just couldn’t talk about it. And I didn’t remember, or remembered more the feelings of it and sort of misunderstood what was happening. I knew I had been abused but I thought I was the issue, my thoughts. So I kept being given all these labels and taking medications that just made me feel dull and grey and nothing ever helped. What I really needed was EMDR therapy.

I did DBT and it was great, but just not good enough. I’m now finally gonna see a proper trauma specialist

I have a diagnosis of CPTSD and talking therapies such as CBT have never worked for me. I’ve just started DBT to learn ways to safeguard myself and bring myself back to the present when in distress. Following this I will be receiving EMDR. No one therapy fits those who’ve experienced trauma but this seems like a safe option and many people have a positive experience with DBT.

It's hard to practice grounding techniques and mindfulness when your surroundings are triggering.

The US psychiatric industry loves posing itself as an authority, a force for good, but, in reality, it fucking sucks. It's a young field with a dark history it has yet to outgrow. And it has the popular support of not only society but many of the "consumers" who aren't left in the cracks.

If only one of them fucking did something instead of neglecting or lying to me. No, most of them don't know shit. They regurgitate what they read out of books that are available to everyone... then they transpose this reactionary system of "medicine" onto you in their subjective way... you end up teaching them things, even though they're somehow supposed to know you better than you. Wtf? Fuck CBT. And the entire cult around medication, and all the fluffed up scientific studies, and the Baker Act, and all the predators employed in this field.

Sending a cyber hug to you OP, if you want it. CBT is woefully inadequate in treating CPTSD and this post highlights that. Thank you for sharing and being with us on this thread.

It was always "so we're going to write down how you're feeling and you're going to deconstruct it" and "maybe we'll think of a solution like you transferring schools" and "you need to go home and practice these grounding techniques"

Wow, that's so...basic? Like, job coaches do this for people who have trouble finding/keeping jobs, usually because of lack of education? In my experience at least. So weird.

For me therapy has been essentially finding a way to feel and understand my emotions and communicating about them. A lot of other stuff comes after that, but that is the absolute starting point. Which sounds kinda dumb, but damn if it isn't the work of a lifetime.

Friends of mine have told me that "normal" therapy doesn't help them, they need trauma experts. So definitely a thing.

Yeah, your therapists failed you. I'm so sorry, best wishes and kind thoughts.

I feel like I could have written this myself. I see you, OP. I too "should" go back to therapy but it's just so much work, time, and cost (at $175 an hour) to onboard yet another therapist who at best might give me a breadcrumb to follow but will never address my entirety. How even can they when life happens so quickly and you're supposed to catch them up with what happened in the last week, turn in your homework, and make plans to cope that will inevitably be obsolete by the time things change between appointments. And yeah ... first I attacked the anxiety, then the drinking, the depression, the drinking, rinse lather repeat ... to find out at age 36 root cause is childhood trauma. No. We didn't fail. Life failed us. Our parents. The adults who should have seen the freaking fireworks display of warning signs. The string of therapists (let me count the ways each one was uniquely deficient down to blithely doing nothing when I was sobbing and about to Spoiler). To have no family, a lifetime of being let down, realize that friends don't really much care, and be ensnared in a hostile system with zero safety nets ... we're really rather awesome for just being upright, conscious, and breathing.

I'm of the same opinion as you when it comes to why I'm not attending therapy right now: marginal improvements (if at all) at great expense of time and money.

This is coming from a very opinionated person (me) that used to be very into this stuff as I learned and grew through some of my shit.

1. Therapists are people (just like me) carrying their own shit in life (just like me).
2. Like "most people" you're mostly going to get average therapists that do an average job with the modalities they employ. Some are better than others, but in general they are mediocre just like most of the medical care system.
3. Our society, STILL struggles with accepting the amount of shit too many kids endure while growing up and still tries to shove "most people" into too many blame boxes. Your kid is rowdy? Must be the kid. Medicate. Learn to control thoughts and feelings.
4. The human animal is immensely adaptable and dynamic. Too many aspects of our physical and mental health "care" systems seem to forget this when diagnosing and treating. IMO maladaptive behavior born from trauma is a clear example of our ability to adapt and survive.

The systems we've installed to "run" our society is not kind to the very people it was created to serve. That said, we are making great strides in how we recognize and treat trauma. And Covid helped remind folks the importance of mental health, adjusting our social systems to "species appropriate" dynamics that support our mental and physical health rather than "get us through to old age" where we than retire with medications.

A supportive social structure within your immediate sphere of influence (friends, family, lovers, therapists, employers) is essential to well being. And traumatized folks too often don't know (and don't have a good example) of what is better for them compared to their maladapted behavior.

Humans are very simple in their needs, yet very complex in how our bodies and minds adjust over our life spans. Understanding CPTSD and the "individually appropriate" diagnosis and treatment is critical. IMO EVERY physical and mental health care provider should be given training on recognizing CPTSD and when/how to refer the patient to practitioners experienced with CPTSD.

Mental health is very misunderstood IMO and most of a person's mental health issues are born from something in their past to which their mind and body had to adapt to get through and survive.

Good news: The same excellent ability to adapt through horse shit from your past is the same ability that will allow you to re-adapt into a more healed version of yourself that doesn't need to survive on maladaptive behavior.

Good luck on your journey, I can already tell you'll do well!

Let’s not forget that an actual good therapist and or therapy is harder to find than forgiveness for our abusers.

That’s the thing with CBT, when it fails they always blame the patient, but no one tells you that… I did talking therapy for four years and it really helped me and I hope you find something that helps you!

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The thing is trauma healing can only be done when you're already in a safe place to begin with. How the f would have you been able to heal while you were being bullied and with no options or people who recognized it for what it was?? Therapists failed you, not therapy in itself. It's so damn difficult to shop for a therapist that you click with and then again look what happened to you. Surrounded by blind people, yourself blind as well unable to recognize what was going on.

And putting the blame solely on your behavior was completely wrong, outside things and people factor in this equation and can not be ignored. Flourishing in such an environment and lack of help was impossible for you. I'm glad you recognize it for what it was now and hope you can start your journey into healing all the trauma, hope you are as far away as possible from all the toxic shit and you can flourish and bloom with this new knowledge.

You were working with the wrong therapist. Reg therapists just aren't prepared for our level of issues. Plenty are like a handyman fixing the Hubble Telescope. They aren't all like this. Try a psychologist, best if a PhD level. Game changer when you find one that fits you! My experience anyway

How were you able to get this perspective?

I urge you to not dismiss CBT just because you had bad experiences as a kid with bad therapists. The right person is hard to find. I’ve been seeing the same guy for 3-1/2 years, every week. It took a year before I really started to trust him. And only then did results start coming. Therapy is something that works gradually. I hate that you had such bad experiences.

I feel this. When I first started showing signs of mental illness, especially ocd, I was sent to CBT. It was useless to me. Looking back it was very trauma based. I had aversions to things because I was terrified not because 'I didn't want to do it'. My therapist gave me the same piece of paper three sessions in a row and them called me and my dad uncooperative. It was hugely disheartening and I've never wanted to try it again.

I have however now received DBT therapy for BPD and it has been invaluable for me. I am now in trauma therapy which so far had been enlightening. Therapy is a very personal thing and I think you have to be ready for it, and of course have the right therapist. I would recommend it and I hope you get to a space where you feel comfortable giving it another go.

In ep. 35 of The Trauma Tapes, sometime around the 30 minute mark, she says:

'You can learn that the truth of trauma has told you a lie, which is that the world is unsafe. The world is not unsafe - these people are unsafe. And you responded exactly as you should have in those moments.

And so now you're here, and you want to engage with the world energetically, from a place where you believe that safety is available to you. And you won't need to collapse, or freeze, or fight, or flee. That is the work.'

https://thetraumatapes.com/

OP, I'm so sorry that happened to you. Instead of helping you (by protecting you from ongoing abuses and trauma) they seem to have expected you to therapy yourself into accepting abuse and trauma and suppressing the emotional turmoil it caused.

You were a child and you deserved to be protected from harm. I'm so sorry that happened to you and that the professionals allowed your abuse to continue. You are right to feel as if they ignored the cause and focused on the symptoms to your detriment.

Now what about DBT?

I just started CPTSD-DBT and am finally beginning to cultivate compassion for myself.

I can forgive rapists and serial killers and see the humanity in them but 0 compassion for myself.

It did not work for me…CBT. It’s probably why I avoided going and trying again….for years. I stumbled into IFS and it has truly helped me. It helped me to articulate my feelings and emotions through visualization and trust me…I DID NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK. But, the very first time I went deep..I was blown away.

I’m not telling you to try it, but I have heard from others on here that it helps them.

I wish you luck. I really hope you can find a method. xx

This. CBT is about fixing problems that are caused by your thoughts and behavior, which is helpful... unless your problems are caused by a trauma you can't control. Then CBT can become downright like professional bullying. I had to quit my therapy because mt CBT therapist was making me start believing that I was so incompetent I didn't know how to think correctly. I explained about my traumas and my depression, my thoughts about wanting to be 'not alive', and she said back that she understood my chronic decade-long depression because, and I quote, "she was briefly depressed after a romantic break up when she was 15", and by briefly I mean two months. She thought that was legitimately comparable. I just couldn't do it anymore. CBT is good when you have no traumas or phobias affecting you, but when you do have those, then the likelihood of this type of therapy working becomes quite small.