a messy, snotty, tear-filled, hug-out where she admitted she was wrong--that she loves me more than her behavior showed. That she wants the best for me and knows she didn't give it but that we both know she did the best she could in the face of everything. That she knows she can never make it up, but we can start over, now.
I don't know how this will make you feel, but my mom did do this, almost word for word, and I still have very mixed feelings. I grew up without kind words or hugs, desperate for any small bit of attention and affection from her but only getting screamed at and hit. And now, 20 years later, she's expressing regret for all that and wants to start over and have the relationship we should have had all along but she wasn't capable of back then. And, yeah, wow, that's all I ever wanted... But... it really feels like dishonoring the deeply lonely, grief-stricken girl that I was to now say "I love you" to my abuser.
Playing nicey-nice with her now feels simultaneously like everything I ever wanted and also completely fake and deeply insulting. And I feel this pressure to forgive and forget since she did apologize and take full ownership of her actions, but how/why am I supposed to do that when she ruined my fucking life? Every time I'm nice to her now I feel like I'm making her feel better about what she did to me, soothing the guilt she absolutely should feel, and what am I getting out of it? The ability to play-act that I have a normal relationship with my mom when I absolutely don't? An open line of communication to go to her with my real feelings and vulnerabilities and just hope she doesn't absolutely blow it and hurt me again? Why, when I've already learned how to live without her?
I don't know, man.
That’s super hard. I totally get your struggle. I’m there with my dad. He has apologized for some of it over the years. It’s hard. I always have my guard up waiting for the other shoe to fall. Of course his relapse back to his previous asshole self always seems to coincide with me finally letting my guard down and forgetting how hateful and hurtful he can be.
The bright side of this is now I’m strong enough to call out his bullshit and not play my part in the madness. So these days I usually get an apology almost right away. Of course that still doesn’t make it ok.
Just remember, even with your mom apologizing you still get to decide if and when you let her into your life. You get to be in charge of that. You have the power and control over you now and you already know you’re strong enough to handle it, after all you survived your childhood and came out the other side.
This is so difficult. My mom tried to apologize, I could tell she meant well. But of course she has issues and struggles to do it properly.
I don't know your situation or what you went through growing up, but my advice would be to honor the childhood you. I really tried to repair things with my mother, and it "worked" at first, but she soon returned to her old ways and I realized that as much as 5 year old me craves mommy's unconditional love and approval, we will neve get it. It felt hollow and fake like you said. Anything nice she does now doesn't mean shit. She abandoned me during the years I needed her and abused me when she did pay attention. It's truly unforgivable, to me.
Anything nice she does now doesn't mean shit. She abandoned me during the years I needed her and abused me when she did pay attention.
God, you're SO right. I think this is truly why I'm finding it so impossible to just forgive and forget. The ship has just long since sailed, and sorry, but she missed it. It's gone. I had to grow up with or without her, and the fact is, she wasn't there for me then, so I had to learn not to trust or rely on her. Yes, it was fucking painful and unfair. But it's in the past now and there's just no going back and making things all better.
The reconciliation has been feeling similar to being gaslit for a reason I couldn't explain, even though she's fully copped to everything she did wrong and hasn't tried to backpedal or excuse her way out of any of it. And I've been feeling like maybe I'm just being petty and immature for still having feelings. But it is kind of gaslighting in a way. Not to current-me, but to past-me.
Past-me is so angry to have her feelings of hurt and betrayal just swept aside like this, and I can feel her raging and rattling her cage inside me. It feels like I'm being made to choose between current-me/current-mom and our potential adult relationship, or sticking by that hurt child still inside me. I've been trying so hard to stuff her back down and "get over it", and it's just felt so wrong. I think I need to stop, and take her side, despite what it does to any potential relationship now. Because the truth is, if I ignore her and tell her to go away, I'm only doing to her exactly what my mom already did to her. And that makes ME angry. She doesn't deserve to be abandoned twice.
You might like the nurturing version of RAIN meditation. In the current version the N stands for non-identification, so not taking problematic or troublesome feelings as part of your identity. But in the original version it was for nurturing kindness and giving yourself now, what you may not have gotten in the past.
Also, I think your experience is part of why I need to let it go. I'm believing that those tears can only come from heartfelt remorse. But really, I mean...I've never seen her pull fake tears. But I wouldn't put it past her if she thought it'd be worth feigning to get someone to shut up. But she's only ever completely rejected that she did anything wrong.
And even if she does and she truly believes it, one slip will make me think...I dunno. That she mistook her momentary, though heartfelt remorse for something that she'd embody ever after. One snide remark and I'll immediately assume she just left all those sorrys at the table, and never truly feels it anymore. I'd think she viewed her regrets as a debt paid up and squared. One missed apology and I'll know I overestimated her. That I was stupid to believe she'd ever change.
And she'd resent me for it. For not putting down my spite. She'd think it was spite for her in her very heart. When really it's for the past and just behavior. Because under her behavior, I do think she has a kind and loving and nurturing soul. It's just hidden behind walls and defenses. And she sees threats everywhere, even in her daughter.
And we'd be right back where we are right now. 8 days ago, she told me I have a black heart. That i don't see the glass as half full or half empty--I only see the darkness.
That's not me. And hearing that mutilates my soul. I wonder if I am that? Am I just a hurtful, negative person, no matter how hard I try? Why would someone say such a thing, if I weren't capable of causing such pain??
But that's not me. I can write it, and I can say it. But feeling it is...tenuous, and flimsy.
So, I need to get away from that need. Because maybe in a way I am those things. Maybe I am hurt so bad that there's nothing she can do. And that is pretty dark. It's cold and harsh. But maybe that's ok. Maybe I can be that, plus my dreamy, silly, rambling, curious self. I need to not care what she sees. Because maybe she's so damaged herself that she can never see me as I am, not completely.
Maybe I'm really high. Sorry to ramble. But I think I just realized I don't need to take it personally. I my worth, and my sense of peace with myself dont need to be tied to whether she can see me or not. See my hurt or not. Or know she caused it, or not..or did, or didn't.
I am really high. But I think I'll be ok. I feel like this is something to work on.
So love yall. Namaste. Peace out.
(Watch me keep commenting, though ;p)
8 days ago, she told me I have a black heart. That i don't see the glass as half full or half empty--I only see the darkness.
WTF. Who the fuck says that to their child?? You are worth so much more than chasing this horrible woman's favor. You don't need her at all if this is what she has to offer.
Also, I know what you mean about any mistake or regressive behavior after an apology would make it immediately feel unsafe again. This just happened to me too. My mom recently reached out to spend some time with me. We haven't actually seen each other in years and I wanted so much in that moment to see her and for it to be perfect, for us to have a close adult relationship that would make up for all the years of shit. I took some time to think about it, but at the last minute, I decided for my own emotional safety to not see her, because I had a feeling I was getting too excited and overly-optimistic and that the actual reality of her not being perfectly supportive/not understanding who I really am would crush me. So I said sorry, no, I want to, but maybe later this year under different/less vulnerable circumstances. She was super cool about it and said "No problem, I totally understand!" Then we kept talking, and literally within an hour she was insulting my political views and forcing me into a corner to defend my beliefs!
I haven't talked to her since then, and I'm still kind of reeling. I feel like I dodged a bullet in deciding not to see her if it's still going to be like this. And I feel so wearied, like I should have known better, that it's never going to be a fairy tale fantasy like I need it to be. The fact remains that she has apologized, she has reached out to be closer to me, she does (sometimes) respect my boundaries. And all that does make me feel safer. But then her other side comes out, and I feel like I just walked into a trap. And I wish I'd never let her back in again, because it's a slap in the face just as I started to feel safe.
With your mom not even giving you the base starter pack of just apologizing and trying to be better, I wouldn't put any trust in her at all if I were you. She hasn't even done the bare minimum for you in simply owning up to her mistakes, and she continues to openly insult you even now. Fuck that. You're worth so much more than being continually degraded by this woman's projections. Sorry if this is inappropriate but I'm so angry for you. Trust in yourself, not in someone who won't even open their eyes to see the good in you.
So weird..I had the SAME experience with my mother last week. I was planning to go to the family Easter gathering. We talked on the phone and she asked me about some deeply personal spiritual experiences that I had shared with her some time back. (An NDE type experience that showed me a lot of concepts that contradict religions today. For starters suicide and abortion) She kept pushing wanting to hear what my views were after this experience. I kept telling her most people her age can't handle it. I finally gave in and shared. Sure enough the "Irrational Blaster Woman" showed up that I knew so well as a child. She just went nuts on what I had shared. So I cut her off and said. "So basically you just taught me that you aren't mature enough to handle an open conversation so I won't ever share these kinds of concepts with you ever again. Remember this conversation for future reference for when you ask again." She was shocked and kind of laughed. But the damage was done. I said I had to go. I was so glad I didn't go to that gathering to drive 3 hours round trip to be tortured.
<3
Thank you. I needed every word of that. She has some very deep demons. Forced abortion at 15, moving states away from the father who was 19. And even before that, she was so anxious that she'd pull her hair out one by one and had bald spots and chewed her nails so bad they bled when she started grade school. I think she's bipolar. Had an eating disorder in high school. And she married my narcissistic dad at 19, horribly abused, neglected, and manipulated her. As long as I've been alive, shes been a single mom.
The thing is, I don't excuse her behavior. Not at all. But with all that shit, I can't bring myself to discount that there's a nice person under it all. That when she's sweet and funny and playful, that she's loving being my mom. I wish that held when things are hard for her. It hurts that it doesn't. It sucks because sometimes she's just mom. And that's great. It'd be easier if she'd just choose one and stick with it.
I just went no contact after that conversation. My first task is to decide weather the good times are worth hearing her poison. I'm not sure. This is the first time I've really thought it may not be worth it.
I'm sorry you've been in it too, but I'm so happy to hear there's someone else out there. Who's even maybe a little farther down the path of healing. Knowing you're out there, able to assess things, and to know what you can handle, and know when you might get swept up and how to avoid it, is so incredibly inspiring to me.
I hope you keep feeling better and better, and that those good feelings get stronger and stronger, and that you get to feel safer and safer with those you can't help but love. They sure make it hard on us. But we're pretty tough, huh?
Edit: And, it's good to hear from someone else that it's pretty extreme emotional abuse. It's not any less harmful than "real"abuse. Lol, she even told me I should go volunteer at a women's shelter to get past my pain since "therapy clearly isn't working". Cunt. I said how it is working, but it takes a lot because feeling worthless feels so bad. She said "well maybe you should meditate on it". OMFG. Fucking daggers. Christ alive, shes a fucking cunt who needs her bitch mouth washed out with cunt clearing cleanser.
Fuck. And on the flip side, when we're bored and stuck somewhere we thumb wrestle on the sly. It's cute. And she's never like, "accidentally" hurt me or anything. She doesn't hurt that way. Thumb wrestle is always safe with her. If she wasn't into it she just wouldn't. So if she did, I knew we were good. We were ok, and I didn't have to be on guard. When we play that game, it's fun and goofy and it's like our thing and I love doing it with her. Fucking christ. I don't know if I'll ever thumb wrestle my mom ever again. She's also really, really mean sometimes and I just don't get why.
:(
Need to remember whatever the why, it ain't because of me.
Man, the fact that you are able to see the good in someone who has hurt and disappointed you so much should stand as absolute and undeniable proof that you don't "only see the darkness".
It would definitely be easier if things truly were black and white. If the people who hurt us were all-bad, it would be so much easier to convince ourselves to cut them out of our lives. My mom also had a very rough life, which is why she was so unable to parent. I do feel for her, because who could honestly expect her to do any better than she did? But that doesn't change that she hurt me, and she still continues to, even after trying to make it right. It's not her fault, necessarily, but she needs to stop hurting me one way or another.
Cutting someone off isn't a blanket condemnation of the person as a whole. It's just a boundary, for you, to keep you safe when you can't continue to take the bad with the good.
I hope you keep feeling better and better, and that those good feelings get stronger and stronger, and that you get to feel safer and safer with those you can't help but love.
Same to you. <3 Though it's clear you are already well on your way.
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5.1y
You do owe it to yourself to take care of the health you've fought so hard to achieve, so if she's damaging to it, that's all you need to know.
Thank you so much for this. You're absolutely right.
I know, I'm probably tying my hopes to something that really won't be as fulfilling as I've played-up in my head. That stings, too. :(
I just need to be more solid in my knowledge and love of myself. LoL. "Just". FML. It's sOooOooooOOooOOoooooooOOooo much easier said than done.
Wow! Thank you for sharing this! Finding myself in this SAME Twilight Zone with my folks. Mom is doing everything to make up for the HELL she put me through. (Screaming at me near daily, hitting, slapping, put downs, criticisms, you name it) As an adult she has worked hard to make up for it. Being kind. Understanding etc. I KNOW she is white knuckling it. Every now and then the "irrational blaster woman" comes out and I have to cut the conversation short and then I don't want to communicate with her for weeks. Saying she loves me has, at many times, been painful to hear. Love doesn't hurt and cause life long damage. I'm done with trying to make her feel better about her mistakes. She has to live with them. I didn't make them. SHE did. Not my job no matter HOW great she is now to smooth it over.
I can't stand the religious "forgive them" baloney. It's nuts to think a person can inflict that much LIFE LONG damage to a child and then they can just say "I'm sorry I did that to you! Can you forgive me?" and WHAM-O it is magically OK. My response has been "Then prove it in action. Find healing for your RAGE. Then share with me THAT journey of how you found healing. THEN I can truly forgive and let go because you have proven you mean it."
I resent the idea that I should forgive someone who hurt me just for their benefit because "they're sorrryyyyy" either. If I forgive someone, it should be for my benefit, even if the benefit is just closure and peace of mind.
I've been soothing myself on that for a few years now, that I'm forgiving her because it's good for ME, I'm doing it for ME. But... like, why? What am I really even getting out of it? A cordial relationship with someone who ruined my life and doesn't really know or understand me even now? Why is that something I need? If she were just a random person who didn't abuse me, we're still different enough that I wouldn't even want to be friends with her. So, why?
EXACTLY!!! Thank you! What are we getting out of it? More torture. I so agree. Just because we are related I am "conditioned" to keep that connection going when it is clear they don't really care about us OR what is happening in my life. And you are right if we were not related I would have NOTHING in common with them. So why do we put ourselves through this hell?
I think it's a deep, lifelong, childlike wish in me for the evil hag to finally be uncursed and for everyone to cheer and have a great big hug because now everything is righted and the danger is gone and we'll all live happily ever after. The End.
But unfortunately that's just not how life works. It's messy and grey, and it's hard to accept that and learn to be ok with imperfect closure when all you've wished for your whole life was for the fairy tale resolution that will never happen. It's hard to reason with yourself that your lifelong wish is never going to happen. It's hard to give up the hope. :(
It IS hard.
I have a Mum like that too, and like you, I held out hope for a miracle. Internet hugs if you want them
I guess when you grow up with an abusive (mentally, physically, emotionally, verbally or sexually) family, it's definitely a difficult one to adhere to.
Thanks!
Hugs
You're very welcome <3 Xx
This is hard for me too. I really like consensus and I really like being the right one. Unfortunately, this does not happen often in life. You get to express opinions and some people will like it and others won’t. My abusive mother will never agree with me and will never let me be right about anything. Slowly learning to let that go.
Yah. It's hard. I feel like that hope is what kept me going for a very long time. Giving it up is like a death in my psyche. But I think I've gotten to a point where I'm strong enough without that hope. I can still allow for the possibility because if it ever becomes and option, I don't want to miss it. But if not, I need to be ok without it, too.
Working on that. I need for my hopes for happiness and wellbeing and acceptance to be attainable from myself. I think once I can do that, I'll be able to handle not getting that from others, and then even the people I wanted it most from as a child. I want to learn to give that to myself, now.
Oysh! No tears at work!
Tearing up at work right now, I needed this. I'm visiting family soon for the first time since I've decided to set boundaries. My boundaries are going to make one sister very angry, and I'm getting severe pressure from other family members to take back the boundaries for this trip. Angry sister will ruin the trip for everyone. By making sister angry, I am ruining the visit.
It is ok if others get angry. It is not my job to take responsibility for others.
Thank you <3
I bless you with the 0 Fucks of the Honey Badger.
May this sacred animal totem guide you through your journey of letting all of that shit slide right off you, leaving you a sassy, merry, prancing badger.
OMG I love you and I love this community so much. Channeling my inner prancy badger self :D
Oh, this is perfect. I’m adopting the honey badger as my spirit animal.
Aww, sweet heart! *Hugs if you want them!\*
I can't imagine all the stress you've been going through.
Do what you think is right. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells to appease your Sister, and other family members should be supporting you, not suggesting 'take backsies' on boundaries YOU have set.
You are soooo welcome~! <3 Xx
I truly hope it all goes well!
Yes to hugs!!!!!! Ily and thank you so much!!
Your statement about walking on eggshells- absolutely. I'm embracing the few family members that are supporting me. I feel so SO guilty but I am allowed to do what it takes to make myself happy. It doesn't make me a bad person for refusing to enable abusive behavior. I keep reading that there WILL be anger with boundaries. To me, anger and backlash that I'm getting is validation that I'm doing the right thing?
More internet hugs for you! You are welcome! Xx
I know what it's like when you need to be hypervigilant around family, always having your guard up. It's exhausting and taxing. I'm so happy to hear that some family are supporting you! You're guilty because you're an empathetic, kind soul. But yes, do what makes you happy!
YES! Refusing to enable her abusive behaviour may anger her, but it needs to be done.
Of course! You'll get a lot of abuse for standing up to yourself. (I got this after standing up to my narcissistic Mother and now we're NC. And the smear campaign has begun).
You are so brave to take this step. It is really hard at first. One thing I’ve learned in setting boundaries is that if the abusive person gets up set by them then the boundary is probably exactly what is needed.
Focus on the supportive family members and I’m sure you’ll get through it.
We are all way stronger than we realize when we first start setting boundaries.
If your comfortable letting us know how it goes I’d love to hear how you did. I know you can do it.
Thank you thank you thank you! You're absolutely right- boundaries exist to protect ourselves from being violated. The ones doing the violating naturally will be angry. Makes perfect sense to me! I'm actually about to dedicate time to make a full post about this situation. I've been telling myself it's stupid and my problems are so minor, but after getting great responses here maybe its worth it? Thank you for the support. I'm relatively new here, but I love this supportive family here. It's amazing that we come from such broken places yet there's so much love on this sub.
I think it’s because we are all very familiar with the struggle and amount of work it takes to get to a healthy life.
I love reading about how others are also on this road. It feels good.
Ooooo I like this and am going to save it. Thanks!
You're welcome :)
Does this apply to every relationship? Spouses included?
I think your own children would be an exception. You should anticipate their needs and take responsibility for them, a little less so as time goes on and they become independent adults.
I think it's important to remember that no one is going to anticipate ALL their kids needs, and getting it wrong is just fine as long as you can admit and correct it as soon as you know better.
Also, you're responsible for them, but more for their growth and development and having their back.
I just worry about it being misconstrued by disordered views of parenting. That kind of misunderstanding of what parenting SHOULD be, vs what I got has made me worry about having kids. And that's likely my own bias from my experience, but I just wanted to tack-on those caveats in case anyone's struggling with the same fears. I tend to place my own bars way too high as a response to the low bars my parents had.
Yes.
Yes.
I found this on Facebook, so I'm not too sure who it's targeted towards. Possibly targeted towards people in abusive relationships. Whether that be friends, family or significant others.
But I personally don't think it applies to every relationship. In my opinion, I would apply some, but not all, points suggested on this list in my relationship.
I'm curious which points you wouldn't apply to a romantic relationship - they all seem completely applicable to any interaction or relationship with all of the people in my life.
I'm from an emotionally abusive family (narcissistic Mum and enabling Dad), so I'm trying to realise what's normal and what isn't. Even after almost 1 year no contact.
Oh, for romantic relationships it's perfectly fine using all these points. I guess it depends on the type of relationship and it's situation.
When I first met my Fiance, he was very depressed. And when we started dating, I made it my job and responsibility to help him get better. I didn't have to do it, but I did. He did get better.
It feels like you’re being disgustingly selfish when you’re really just treating yourself the way you deserve.
I know, right? :(
But you need it. Don’t let the guilt drive you. You are worthy and deserving of love, especially from yourself.
Absolutely! I agree 100%! There is nothing wrong with putting yourself first. I think we forget because we often put others before ourselves.
Yes! I say that just because I know how hard it can be to put yourself first when you’ve been called selfish all your life.
Yes! I can definitely relate!
Or when you do try putting yourself first (and not taking anymore BS from people), all you is "You've chaaaanged!".
Screenshotted because who knows in this society when someone else will ever say that again
Smart idea!
I set a boundary today and it was super terrifying. The lady kept trying to get me to back down and I just kept repeating what I told her (in a polite and non flustered). It worked. I'm so proud of myself right now. As I said, super terrifying. My chest and head were on fire and my mind was in panic mode for the next 3 hours but it's ok. I told her the truth, and didn't change my mind and bend the rules like she wanted me to (like I normally do to keep people from raging at me). I did it I did it.
Yay! That's amazing! <3 You should be so damn proud of yourself! hugs if you want them Xx
I know it can take a toll on you straight after the confrontation, but I'm glad you've settled down now! :)
Thank you so much! My husband is just like "oh that's nice" and doesn't understand at all. So it's nice to hear someone say something positive about my efforts, haha.
I've been there, so I know it means a lot when you stand up for yourself :)
I know it's been three months from the time you posted that but I'm so proud of what you did back then. I'm still struggling and just reading the feeling you got after doing it helped me a ton. I wish that you keep up this, one battle at a time :)
Thank you! And I'm glad you posted your comment because it got me thinking - ever since I did the super scary thing that day, it's been way easier for me to say no to customers who want me to bend rules for them. Sometimes my head will get hot feeling or I can't breathe for a little while and I get thoughts of "should I or should I not have done that?" in my head for a while which sounds like a lot still but it's nowhere near the crazy adrenaline cortisol whatever it was, that I had that first time. I don't feel like I'm going to have a panic attack while doing it anymore. Now I'm working on different types of boundaries. Which is scary again but so worth it. Rules are there for a reason. And setting down "rules" for how I want to be treated is important. Because I'm just as important as everyone else and I allow all of them to have their boundaries so I should get the same thing too, right? That last part is something I'm still working on convincing myself of (maybe I need to make boundaries for myself to myself?) As you said, one battle at a time. I hope you're able to keep setting the boundaries you need. Thank you!
I set this as the background to my cell screen.
Now you'll always be reminded :)
I am enough. This is true for all of us and it’s so damaging to forget so.
It's sad how easily we can forget this! I am enough. And everyone should realise that they are enough. <3 Xx
Is it really ok if others get angry? Can someone maybe elaborate..?
Yes. I guess I don't understand what you mean?
I'll take a shot, though:
A) People have a right to their emotions, but are also responsible for their actions no matter how they feel. And just because you do something that makes someone angry, that doesn't give anyone the right to treat people shitty. Feelings and actions should play nice together.
B) If you made a reasonable, necessary boundary and it's upsetting to someone, that's not a reason to change it. You get to choose whether you allow people into your orbit, and that can be based on whether they respect your boundaries. This is WAY more applicable for independent adults. Minors and dependents may be better advised to not rock the boat to survive their situation until they can get out. But this is a really important point for people who's abusers don't respect the choice to go low or no contact.
I don't know if you meant one of those things or something else, though.
Absolutely this!
I have friends that use me as a platform to offload all their problems to. As if I'm some sort of journal. I am more than happy to help people that need it on occasion, but it need to be reciprocated. Too many drain my energy. It needs to stop.
I'm sorry, that sounds taxing. I hope they can respect your needs. I hope it doesn't hurt too much if they can't and you have to cut them out.
<3
It's really hard. One in particular is very all about herself, they will never message and ask how I am. Sometimes I just want a "Hi, how are you doing?" y'know. I've tried to cut them out of my life before, but I'm too soft and always let them back in. I need to try and be stronger for my own good without being cruel. <3
I totally get how you feel. You're a listener, but sometimes you need to offload and talk too. I hope your friends realise it's not a one way street. Xx
It's definitely a one way street with one in particular. It's very hard. I try and open up and it's spoken about for 2 minutes, then it's back to hours upon hours of their problems. I've had it for years with this person. I need to remember these words; "You cannot change them, but you can change your response to it". Which is really what I need to focus on instead of getting frustrated all the time.
Thank you, I've needed this all my life.
You're very welcome!
Thank you. It's the wallpaper on my computer now!
You're welcome :)
Fuck yeah I love this. Really what I needed.
I found this little beauty on Facebook and instantly thought of this subreddit.
I'm glad you like it!
I don’t even know how to put any of this into practice so I obviously need it...thank you for sharing 💗
You'll get there! Xx Just take it one at a time.
You're very welcome! <3
I've posted it elsewhere, but this exercise really helped me. It was a really important first step before I was able to set any boundaries.
God, every time I see this posted somewhere I realize another way my lack of boundaries used to ruin my life. And then I feel thankful that I’m learning better.
I'm glad you're building on your boundaries! :) And realising where you went wrong in the past!
Yassssssss!!!!!!!!
Fourth gif I'm saving from this sub.
Glad it's worth saving! Hope it helps Xx
Oh my.. it is my everyday struggle within 10 lines, results in destructive perfectionism and workaholism under constant guilt followed by panic attack. Everything on the list is on point and im slowly learning not to care about othera before I care myself. Thank you!!
You're doing great! It's an incredibly slow process to working through all the points, and the fact that you're putting yourself first is such a great start! <3 Xx
I agree with most of this and I remember making some lists like this for myself when I was younger and feeling better after writing out these things and reminding myself of them. At the same time reading your point that, "It's not my job to take responsibility for others", but then it is your job to take responsibility for others behaviour and blame yourself for not having set boundaries ? How do you square the two ? It seems to me that they contradict each other ?
The whole concept of "boundaries" being the individual's responsibility is flawed/victim blaming and can enable abuse (rather than prevent it).
This might seem unrelated but please just bear with me, I think you'll eventually see the connection, consider that when a country in invaded and oppressed, their boundaries are infringed upon by definition. Here is a consideration about boundaries and invaded boundaries and "self harm." When one country invades another basically the invaded country wasn’t strong enough to stop the invasion so they are in a submissive state and they are submitting to self harm (after all is being invaded good for them ? It’s bad for them of course, it’s hurting them, of course the best thing for them to do would be to resist and not submit to the invasion but they are forced to put up with being harmed and “consent” to harm. By letting the other country be there and invade them they don’t have a choice over it. They are being forced to allow something that hurts them. That’s self harm, they have to act in a way, submit to the invasion, that allows/furthers their own harming. It’s a lesser of two evils situation. But what they are doing letting the other party invade and harm them isn’t what they would do or what would be the best course of action for them or the effective thing if they weren’t in a state of oppression. They are having to do something that is ineffective to them and harmful to them submit to being invaded. Even though something bad is happening to them they have to let it happen and can’t fight back. They are being harmed but the harm if they fought back would probably be greater which is why they are being submissive. That’s how oppression works, it’s a bad thing, no one would ever choose it and it harms people and forces people to do things that are harmful to them and aren’t working for them. But they are forced to hurt themselves in this way. That’s the whole idea of oppression enforced self harm. So it’s ridiculous from that standpoint to talk about “self harm”. Can we even meaningfully define self harm in that situation ?)
So for example while women (or any oppressed group like poor people, gay people, disabled people or people of colour) are under oppression and in a state of oppression I don't think it makes sense to talk about "having good boundaries" or that it is meaningful to talk about boundaries since in a situation of oppression meaningful boundaries don't exist. Remember that the worst abused women, oppressed and prostituted women were usually told/victim blamed that they did not have good boundaries.
I'd say it's good but it also makes me say, what's wrong with compassion though? Some of that is being compassionate to the needs/feelings of others.
For me, it literally is my job to care for someone else, I am a para. However yes, I do some self care time
I think the difference is being compassionate and helping someone as you do at work, but then leaving that at work when you go home and living your life outside of it. I think boundaries to do with caring for others and needed because if you don't have any you can become over involved with caring for others and become codepepndent. It can affect your mental health because you're focused on what is best for everyone else even to your own detriment.
I was like that with my mum. She phone me drunk and crying and I'd rush over and do everything I could to help. I'd spend hours researching how to get her benefits and what she was entitled to and I'd lay awake worrying about her. Now I've put a boundary in place, I can empathise with her and help when I can but not to the point where I'm not living my life because I'm concerned about her.
I a para for a sibling so the care doesn't just stop. However yes, I have an enmeshment life in my family. It's affected me greatly now but unsure how to stop it
I think it’s okay to set boundaries and limits even when your caring for someone in that capacity.
To me sometimes it’s more of an inner attitude so that I don’t let their bad behavior or constant needs effect my feelings all the time. Not sure if I’m explaining it right.
I'm sorry to hear that :( I can't totally see how that would affect you. Do you have any hobbies outside of home? Go to any social groups or meet friends regularly? I'm just wondering if maybe some time that was just for you and about you would help?
It's not a list I put together, I just found it on Facebook. And honestly, I had the same thought as you. There's nothing wrong with compassion, you just need to direct it towards the right people.
I agree, there is a compassionate and empathetic way to set healthy boundaries. I have found in the past that some people justify being extremely rude and hurtful by telling themselves they are setting their boundaries... but it is always good to remember you are dealing with a fellow human who has their own issues, and to be kind.
I think the difference is, you've decided to attend to those needs/feelings rather than being in a position where you feel obliged (regardless of the recipients' behaviour towards you).
What's a para? Paralegal? Paramedic?
Para, caregiver. Someone who helps a disabled person
Oh! I thought it was short for something. Do you live in the same house as the person you care for?
No
Then in your case, like someone else said, it can be important to leave work at work.
But also, sometimes you may not be able to fulfill that person's every need. If they're nonverbal or unconscious, you may not know they have an itch, or smell something theyd rather not, or have moments of clarity. Or if they are, you still can be expected to know what they need 100% of the time. They'll need to tell, or indicate to you. In your case it might be important to watch if you become too harsh with your expectations.
Or, you might need to watch that your diligence and attentiveness don't bleed over into your other personal relationships. Because when you do it most of your day, it can be very easy to get caught up in attending to everyone's needs right away. But that's your job at work, not your job at home. You get to be an equal, with people to support YOU at the end of the day.
But if none of those fit, maybe that one's just not advice you need. Or maybe it just applies to you in a different way that I can't imagine.
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I understand not constantly needing to anticipate other people's needs and I'm working on that... But what if somebody's ill? I mean isn't it normal then to pick up some of the household and help them out and understand what needs to be done without them having to ask you all the time?
I can answer what my therapist has answered when I ask her this question:
The paper doesn't say "Don't anticipate the needs of others."
It says "I don't have to anticipate the needs of others."
It is trying to undo the training that you have to anticipate the needs of others. Anticipating others' needs can be appropriate (as in the example you gave), but it should not be the default.
As my therapist would say (about anything on that list, or any unhealthy trait): It's not about erasing it from your life completely, but about you getting to choose when you do it.
Thank you, that makes a lot of sense.
Reading your comments, I recently struggled to be in the same spot you have been. I’m the queen of anticipation but no one else seemed to anticipate me. Didn’t matter if I was having s fibromyalgia flare up with care charts across the room. It wasn’t done for me.
So I rewrote the above list with adding “I can choose to” in some places.
Here’s the deal: no one will treat you as kindly as you want them too until you start to do it yourself.
Looks selfish, right? If I put my needs first, I’ll be the same as my abuser.....well that was my thought. However, the flip side is no one knows (even with lists, sadly) how to care for me, because most don’t know how to care for themselves either. Someone has always taken care of them (see your partner’s family dynamic for clues of repeating your family patterns)
If you honestly, kindly, and with love, put your needs first “would you do this for me” rather than how you tried to stay “not s burden”, it would be amazing to see you remembering you have so much personal power you don’t need another to help you survive. You are a whole life who deserves someone as excited as you are to help you as you are wanting to help them.
Good luck in untangling those phrases until you can find them healing and inspiring!
> If you honestly, kindly, and with love, put your needs first “would you do this for me”
Actually, this is how I did it, but then he would likely forget, or he would actually do it, 50/50. In the end he did express seeing me as somewhat of a burden but I wish he would have told me earlier so we could have talked about it. I tried getting as much outside help as possible from the start to take things off his shoulders, but maybe it wasn't enough.
Thanks for your input, it was actually very insightful :)
You are welcome!
Were you seen as a burden by your family in any way? Because he is seeing you as an extra task/chore, rather than the privilege of sharing your time.
If you were his fav celebrity, he would do many things to impress them. He should feel the same privilege with you.
Maybe I should feel that way, thanks.
Yeah, after my mom died I was passed on between foster care and relatives and they all considered me a burden. I never connected the things but hey, here we are. Thanks for that insight!
You’re very welcome!! I was a child of alcoholics and definitely was given a similar early perspective. My fiancé and I struggle because when he feels like he can’t please me, he feels he’s not being good enough. We have worked through a lot of that to the point where I don’t engage in his self-pity behavior when he is unable to meet my needs. I love him because he is suffering more than I am, right now, in this way. Nothing lasts forever.
We forget that we are whole being is worthwhile of everything we ever desired....there is a level of ego detachment where that statement makes a whole lot of sense.
We often surround ourselves with people who don’t support that. We surround ourselves with people who are familiar who may have mistreated us in the past and therefore we think we deserve it still. “Familiar hells often are more comfortable than strange heavens”-I heard from a motivational speaker.
Good luck! You are awakening to your own beauty and strength!
Like I mentioned to another commenter, I didn't actually make up this list. I just saw it on Facebook and felt the need to share it.
But I totally get what you mean though.
I guess I'm still struggling with the difference myself. I was wheelchair bound the past year and my partner barely helped me unless I specifically asked (and even then). His reply was that it was not his job to anticipate what I needed, though if the roles were reversed it would have been obvious to me that the dishes needed to be done and he needed to be taken outside every now and then. But I let it happen because I thought maybe I was expecting too much and shouldn't be so needy? I don't know.
This is a huge red flag. He showed you that he believes household chores are your responsibility and he won’t contribute unless you specifically ask him to help you.
If you stay with this man - especially if you have kids with him - you will bear the entire family’s mental load and emotional labor.
Absolutely agree. I think all women should read this comic.
Oh wow, I hope you're doing much better now! I can't imagine how hard it was for you.
Now I see why you said what you said in your last comment.
I'm doing better, thanks :) can walk and stand a little again so I can do my own dishes haha. Partner and I are no longer together.
That's fantastic! You must be so happy to have some semblance of independence again! :)
I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm sure it's for the best. Xx
I do think it's important to ask. And not get upset if you have to. Some folks are just oblivious.
I think many times people care about different things.
I’ve got no problem leaving clothes all over my upstairs when I change. On laundry day I literally go from room to room upstairs with my laundry basket collecting dirty clothes. I know many if not most other adults would be horrified by that but it’s just not important to me.
Now, keeping my downstairs picked up is so I do that each morning and night. So it’s not like I can’t pick up. I just choose not to.
I’m also a stickler for a clean kitchen. But I’m not as concerned with the bathroom.
Honestly, the "Nobody has to agree with me" is hard. I held out hope for FAR too long that my abuser mom and I would have a messy, snotty, tear-filled, hug-out where she admitted she was wrong--that she loves me more than her behavior showed. That she wants the best for me and knows she didn't give it but that we both know she did the best she could in the face of everything. That she knows she can never make it up, but we can start over, now.
But no one has to agree with me. :( It's a hard pill to swallow, but I'm trying to get that down. I really can't trust her without that, but y'know...I guess she just doesn't feel obligated for that. So, there you go. I gotta move on and that's so rough.