Obviously it’s not your choice you did this
But just as a real talk conversation, you basically can’t deal with real life. And that’s gonna screw you big time
Obviously it’s not your choice you did this
But just as a real talk conversation, you basically can’t deal with real life. And that’s gonna screw you big time
So true. So many posts and comments blow my mind because finally, here are other people who actually get it! It's a million times more validation and understanding than I've gotten from any therapist over the years.
This is absolutely true for me as well. Between this and the widows sub I’m in a better place than I’ve ever been. It’s so healing reading a comment you could’ve written yourself. Finally not weird and alone with it!!! I love you guys so much.
This. I have so many comments and posts saved. Have felt more seen here than I have anywhere else or by anyone else in the past 6 years of my recovery journey.
I have many saved too! This literally is the only place I feel understood
I went 45 years without even knowing what cptsd is and in the past year of coming across information online, although it has been a roller coaster ride realizing the connection to every experience and decision in my life, it's been more helpful and healing than anything else
Same
Well said!!! This subreddit has helped me more than the numerous therapists I have seen for years. They caused me more harm by invalidating my trauma. I still feel so much anger towards them for wasting my time and money.
I am very thankful for this subreddit which has helped me learn about things that I can do on my own and that will actually help heal my trauma such as r/internalfamilysystems (IFS), r/idealparentfigures (IPF), and r/somaticexperiencing.
Same. Check out a channel on YouTube called the Crappy Childhood Fairy.. the people in the comments under the videos really get it too..
It's common for people with cptsd to get triggered very easily when bringing up topics surrounding our trauma, which immediately sends stress signals to our brain and body which releases chemicals (like cortisol) and then dysregulates our thought process..
Difficult experience, to say the least. Which is exactly why some of us get symptoms confused with ADHD and most of us struggle with talk therapy.
Being able to read other experiences online or just relate to other people is more reassuring than being forced to "work through something" just because you have an appointment that day, it might not be healthy [for me] in that moment and sometimes after bringing those emotions to the surface it takes me days to recuperate from how physically and mentally draining it can be which then sets me back in my everyday life so it's frustrating.
I was literally just thinking this. I had a rough day and then saw this and felt understood.
Weird because I woke up this morning thinking..
Why do I have to struggle for a lifetime over things I had no control over?!
But then I try to remember others had it even worse and are currently going through worse.
Life is fkd but at least we have information to help us understand and not feel so alone. Some people don't even have that option.
You’re absolutely right. Also, I kinda feel like no matter what there are strangers on here that I feel more of a kinship to than biological family
Oh 100%!!
I would be careful saying that. Therapy is still very important for people like us because our therapists can learn our unique experiences and struggles and come up with a plan that suits us as individuals.
That being said, I know there are a ton of shitty therapists out there. But it’s absolutely worth pushing through and trying out new ones until you find one who actually does get you and believe in you.
It’s also SUPER important that the therapist has experience and knowledge in CPTSD
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society” - Jiddu Krishnamurti
"The Myth of Normal - trauma, illness, and healing in a toxic culture" by Dr Gabor Maté and Daniel Maté
There's a lot of normalized toxic behaviors out there. I'm attuned to that, and since I can't control others behaviors all I can do is control mine, which includes increasing my solitude to protect myself.
i’m about to purchase ‘the myth of normal’! it’s been on my list for a while
I’ve just finished reading it and it helped me loads!
I’m in a pretty sensitive place right now, but would love to read this book. Is it sad/depressing? I will read it eventually but I don’t want to right now if it’s going to put me in a gloomy headspace
Hey, a little bit it also provides hope and ways forward and is rather cathartic. He gives ways to find your way through xx
Yep. That's why I used drugs and alcohol and a fake persona I thought other people would like and the drama of high-conflict romantic relationships to avoid real life for many, many years.
Sometimes I think it was better when I was in denial of all my problems and just repressed the trauma. At least it was more fun, anyway. But I know it's worth it to at least try to give myself a fighting chance to get to know myself and live in a state of greater awareness and acceptance of reality. It's just really challenging.
I feel this so much. Since I've been confronting and processing all the different complex layers of my trauma I feel my excitement around people has diminished.. I'm not that fun anymore, I feel lonely most of the time even when I'm around people and my general attitude towards the world has just gotten more cynical and cautious.
I just want getting through the day not to be so damn hard. Even though I've come a looooong way and I'm proud of myself, it really stings that this is a fight is going to be a fight for life.
100% with you on thinking it was better back then. Like, both versions of myself from now and before are shit in different ways, but at least the me from before had a job, a social life, wanted friends and relationships, enjoyed hobbies and could take part in society. I was a loser before, but now I'm a loser with nothing except my awareness of how awful everything is. Stumbling down this rabbit-hole of healing has been soul crushing. Waiting for things to get better.
Right? I remember having friends, partners, a social life. I went out all the time, hosted parties, and lots of other stuff I can't even imagine doing in my current state where everyday life is just a series of things that I find terrifying and shameful.
Even though I was ignoring my problems and a lot of my behaviour was problematic, I felt pretty decent from day to day back then thanks to my good friends denial and avoidance.
Wow. Relatable
Oh no. Wait. Hold up. What's this about high conflict romantic relationships and their drama as avoidance from life? I, uh, might know someone who needs more info here...
I resonate too hard with your whole comment. Life was easier before trying to heal, or at least I somehow felt less like a mess.
And as an added bonus, repeatedly choosing emotionally unavailable and unstable people as partners eliminates the risk of true intimacy developing. Which I say I want, but am not-so-secretly still terrified of and sabotage at every turn. Hence pursuing people who don't treat me well, while ignoring anyone nice or stable who does express any interest in me. Good times.
Though I've never used drugs a lot, I totally can relate to feeling better when it was repressed cause it was at least fun
Do you know what a double bind is? This seems like a double bind.
So I had heard this term before but I never knew exactly what it meant. Looked it up on Wikipedia and uh... yeah. I think this is in large part the reason I'm on this sub lmfao.
"A double bind is a dilemma in communication in which an individual (or group) receives two or more reciprocally conflicting messages"
My parents put me in double binds a lot. Kind of gave me the internal message of "fucked if I do, and fucked if I don't", and I've already done plenty of "doing" and ive found it easier to "don't" these last few years. If it's pain and struggle no matter what I do, I may as well just find my comfort and wait it out.
First part is pretty much me too, and my one ex did the same. It was a lot of "my words say X but my body language and my actions say Y" and I had to learn not to listen to their words because they were never true.
Cue me now realizing this is why I have a hard time taking literally anyone at face value for anything.
I think maybe I need to learn to "dont" as well lol
My parents put me in double binds a lot. Kind of gave me the internal message of "fucked if I do, and fucked if I don't", and I've already done plenty of "doing" and ive found it easier to "don't" these last few years. If it's pain and struggle no matter what I do, I may as well just find my comfort and wait it out.
Feeling sad 😭 still not been able to come out of this
All about forcing you to do things. Removing your agency. A double bind leaves you with no option but what they want. Giving you an actual choice would mean you'd have some say in any decision, and for them that's unimaginable.
I'm still getting this too.
What's helping me was to realize that mom's hangups are her shit to deal with. If I want to do something that happens to be what she tells me or doesn't tell me to do, I have to do it for me, and screw what she thinks. Because I spent years not doing, which means I have a whole lot of nothing, and feel awful about myself because I'm currently dependent on her. If I try and fail, and fail again, I can keep trying until I succeed, and at least I tried. I'm trying to focus on the trying part, not the succeeding part.
Huh. This is me.
I feel like with people, internally I MUST be on high alert, don't trust anyone, always expect the other shoe to drop, etc.
Externally, I MUST bend over backwards to treat everyone as if they are the most important, they always have the best intentions, people please, etc.
... It definitely makes people-ing super exhausting. And I'm pretty sure it pushes good people away, and keeps bad people close. But trying to fight it is... Tough. The bad people will get angry and guilt trip you. And there's no "instant" positive reinforcement... The good relationships come with time. But that's a hard process to trust.
I'm talking about a double bind in reference to hypnosis. Where the asker of the question is (unconsciously) aware that they are presenting you with something that traps you. Its not the situation that traps you but the presentation of the OP. Saying "you cant deal with real life" isn't necessarily true but if you agree with it then you end up being forced to agree with being "screwed". What was presented wasn't a reality but a opinion presented as reality. Tempting others to join in and decide how screwed they are, even though they are free from that.
I don't know, beautiful people. I understand all of these words and have experienced it and actually have lately been experiencing this again. BUT when you are in that mindset, your mind is going to pick up every tiny little detail to prove that this thought you have is true. One may even subconsciously (because this thought is present) create situations to further prove this to be true. And that's dumb. And we aren't dumb. I'm just sayin' 🙆🏼♀️🫶🏼 focus on, say, red cars. What do you think are you going to start noticing? What if one were to focus on healthy connection? Love. Joy. Money. Opportunity. Whatever you want to focus on. What do you think will happen? And then, boom, it's there in front of you but the nervous system and mind is stuck on some bullshit and it all disappears or gets sabotaged because in truth, we are scared. And that's dumb. I understand it, I respect it, but it's lame. And I don't want to be lame anymore. Cause it's dumb. And I'm not dumb and you're not dumb. Far from it. We all have a lot of beauty to ADD to this world. Look at a tree. It's fucking beautiful. Just chilling and giving us oxygen and stuff. Because that it does. It doesn't care about our traumas. It's like, here, here's some oxygen to heal you and help keep you alive since breathing is a pretty important aspect of aliveness. And then this bee flys around me giving me a sound bath with its little buzzy wings. And then I'm like, thanks, preciate it, bee. And that's life. And it's pretty cool. Just sayin'
No what is a double bind?
from their definition, seems like “a self-fulfilling prophecy”
I interpreted that as somebody saying one thing but behaving opposed to what was just said, so the recipient of the demand/request/message has no idea what’s really being asked of them or what to believe.
oh I was referring to u/SyntaxError444’s comment
Ohh gotcha
I just finished reading Catch-22, and I never expected a war novel to be so insightful for what's going on with me. It's all about these double-binds, and the laugh-cry reaction they elicit if/when we can perceive them.
I have not commented here in years.. I considered myself mostly healed by the time I left because the depressed side of things cleared up okayish and I improved my mental health.
But this part is exactly what I'm still dealing with. Avoidance. It doesn't help that my developing brain got it hammered into it that every stranger is dangerous and I can't trust anyone.
I'm still terrified of bus stops, being in an enclosed space with people for a duration of time where I can't leave (so basically feeling like I'm trapped in there and people are free to do whatever they want to me) etc. It obviously doesn't help my day-to-day life.
I'm at a loss. I don't go to therapy etc. Everything I figured out, I did on my own. I got labeled with social phobia after 5 minutes of talking which is obviously bs, got an accurate opinion about c-ptsd from a psychologist after I researched the hell out of it and asked. And that's that.
I've been trying to improve myself, to not be so afraid of situations and people, but it's challenging af. I can't help but feel extremely worried that something triggering will happen. This is why I hate confrontations with strangers, it's a direct jump back in time to being actively hurt and helpless.
I always expect the worst. I don't want to be seen or talked to because people are fucking cruel.
And this stops me from a lot of things. Mainly from working with a lot of people and running errands in shops or official places.
I have accepted the working part will burn me out. I'm tailoring my life around this avoidance, by doing an accounting course and hopefully only having to take a couple of phone calls at best. However that doesn't help things like I can't say my opinion to my doctor out of sheer anxiety that I'll piss him off and I'll be hurt. He's completely normal (although a bit of an egoist), but I feel like a feral animal who's not in control of herself when on the spot.
This is the last thing I want to get under control... I know I'm trying to do everything to avoid other people and be a hermit, but it's impossible to live fully without them. I have to build up resilience and I don't know what to be able to handle bad situations (most situations feel like it if anything doesn't go as expected, I never relax when out of the house lol). Being triggered and freezing/fawning and letting things happen is not an option. When that happens the constant voice in my head just tells me not to make any wrong moves because I might be hurt, while my body is frozen.
I need to get over it somehow. It's stopping me from being a fully functional person in today's society (even if my life will involve very low human contact except for my family and partner because I just don't need or want more), and it's torture to be around strangers almost all the time.
Edit: This obviously doesn't mean that's my only problem but it's the most crippling. I still have major triggers around abandonment, but I'm coping.
This really resonated with my previous experience. I felt crippled by fear in small everyday interactions because of my formative years. A decade of therapy helped me be relatively functional, but didn't stop the limiting fear.
My psychiatrist referred me to an IV ketamine infusion. It wasn't cheap but saved my life. After the first session, the ever present fear lifted. It felt like seeing the sky for the first time. Interacting with others isn't exhausting anymore, and I've been able to more easily set boundaries. I started making progress in therapy for the first time in a long time. I no longer have looping thoughts, and the flashbacks have stopped happening everytime I'm exposed to normal things.
Now I go once a year, and it's basically put my ptsd into remession. If possible I really recommend starting with an iv clinic, but in recent years I've had good experiences with at home troche programs (more affordable and I don't have to take as much time off from work). I was non responsive to ssri and anti anxiety medication. If you can get into a program, it might be worth a shot for what you're struggling with.
Goddamn, you did the impossible. I'm really glad you were able to heal from this.
It really is debilitating. Thank you for the recommendations, it might be worth looking into it but my country is very backwards in terms of mental health services. Methods and beliefs in most professionalists come from the 90's and 2000's.
If this treatment is anything new, they'll most likely go with older versions, like anti anxiety medication etc. instead. Those did jackshit for me before and I also got headaches from them so yeah.
I don't know what troche programs are but I'll definitely look them up. Thank you for sharing your experience and trying to help!
The thing that helped me was a staged gradual exposure, letting my mind start working on dismantling the reinforcement that it will be a bad experience/something bad will happen.
The problem with that is I've tried. I had a lot of positive experiences.
But my gut reaction is still always immediate fear/terror when I'm faced with having to go out.
For me I think it's that 10 years worth of bullshit will not fade away from occasional trips outside. I guess if I habitually went out, I would at least get used to things being neutral and it would somewhat become something I do on autopilot. The initial fear of going out would probably disappear for the most part, but that still doesn't help me with being put on the spot and me not being able to handle sudden social situations with new people etc.
For example, if a homeless person came towards me angrily to give him money, it wouldn't matter that I manage to get myself to go out, because the second problem doesn't lie with the anxiety leading up to the situation.
It's that I can't handle the situation itself. It's an instant (mostly) freeze response. And then feeling horrible afterwards.
I don't know. A big problem of mine is when there IS a situation where I have to protect myself, either verbally or physically, I feel like I can't. I know I can't. I may talk myself out of it or freeze or back out. Okay. But then I feel like shit about the whole thing happening in the first place, but more importantly, that I didn't PROTECT myself. Freezing or fawning isn't protecting yourself for me. It feels like I failed. That I've been violated and did nothing against it. Major trigger.
I don't know. There's a lot of shit to unpack here. I don't want to burden you with it however. I'll eventually figure my crap out. I don't want to wallow in helplessness and do want to improve, but I have to figure out a way that works.
Yeah the second one I can see being very problematic. You can't really 'gradually expose' yourself to events like that; they are all or nothing. The only thing I can think of is to be able to observe others when it happens to them...except for the fact that it's probably a lot less likely for that to happen due to the nature of the beast.
Separately, on the feeling like shit part, I've had issues in the past with the inability to forgive myself for mistakes/etc. I'm not sure if that similar to what you are describing there, but a key part is being able to reach a place where you can do that, as the inability to do so can often have a deeper role in what is happening. Of course, it may not be like that at all for you so ignore this if so.
I guess part of the ideal solution would be to have someone(s) you could go out with that you can trust which would give you more a feeling of safety and potentially be able to have a diluted exposure to some things while still being separated far enough from it that it can be used to gradually wear away at it. But that does require having those people, which I assume is part of the problem in the first place maybe.
In any case, I wish you luck. Not sure if I can really help but if you ever do have questions or need a wall to bounce things off of let me know. I've found that the more I talk about it, it seems to help, but I'm sure that that doesn't work for all the different ways these crippling things seem to form in our minds.
Like getting ripped (in secret). Perfecting your diet (in secret). You're doing all sorts of things that you could benefit so much from by sharing with people and having them share with you, but you don't, because you've consciously or unconsciously created a life where you don't have those opportunities, because you were brought up that way.
Thank god for YT and social media. Half the time I don't enjoy using it but the other half of the time I get to at least see how others share the same goals and interests I have and benefit from their experience which I would totally have missed out on in pre-social media days...
We have to make the best use of what we've got.. There is no 'perfect' or right way to do things. Find meaning and connection however and in whichever way you can. (I'm saying this to myself)
C-PTSD has made facing reality feel impossible, leading to a life of avoidance and struggle.
It's not your fault, but the consequences are real. To heal, you must confront the pain and learn to embrace life again. It won't be easy.
Fortunately CBT with my therapist has been helping me in day-to-day tasks & facing my anxiety.
For real like I try to act nice to people and show emotions but honestly I'm completely dead inside.
…If only that “real” world that created the trauma offered any real help/empathy/adjustment to heal, instead of just telling me “it’s not your fault but it is your rEsPoNSibiLiTy”. Where is their responsibility or accountability?
What I’d give to not be so jaded and feel safe outside again. But ignorance is not my forté, no matter how much I change perspective or self-regulate.
I feel this so heavily. It’s really unfair
“Life is unfair”. Sigh. There’s no practical choice than to learn to adjust to reality for our needs. Isolation won’t get us much far.
There isn’t really a practical choice for dealing with trauma either because you can be in a safe place for years and still be operating on survival mode because your mind can’t calm down
Yep. And our mind and responses are the only thing we can try to have control over, which is the hardest thing in cptsd. It’s all so paradoxical!
I hate that logic of being abused and neglected since the beginning of your physical brain development and then judged on the effects like it was your choice. Your responsibility to fix - I just hate that phrasing. Like it was just poor planning or decision making on our part. Like ‘go to therapy’ is a magic pill to erase and replace developmental trauma - always said so dismissively by a person lucky enough to have a supportive family. It’s as tone deaf as if I saw a paralyzed person in a wheelchair and said, ‘it’s your responsibility to fix - just go to physical therapy.’
“Tone deaf” is a recurring term I’ve used to describe the interaction with people in my life when I journal.
And yeah, being told to not be afraid to ask for help. But when you do, you get judgement and dismissiveness at best, made to feel weak and flawed at worst.
This is what led me to realize that the rest of my family, who I viewed as saints, abandoned and emotionally neglected me just the same way my mother did. The only difference was they weren’t outright violently abusive.
I was 14 years old when I escaped the abuse (for the first time). My more well-adjusted family members took me in (they are the types who preach about love & acceptance & family, that’s their whole MO) and told me they were going to help me.
They proceeded to ignore my neglect and abuse. My therapist instructed my aunt and uncle to stop talking about my mother altogether, pretend she didn’t exist. They wanted to address my “problem behavior” but never put 2 & 2 together that the profound abuse is what caused it.
No, it was all my fault. I was just a rotten kid, a bad influence, a lost cause. I got yelled at by so many adults for things I didn’t even realize I was doing/realize was wrong. I didn’t know I was hurting or exhausting anyone. I WAS A CHILD.
No, I was just a little adult who should have known better. I was so mature, so I should be held to a higher standard.
I was “mature” because I’d learned from a young age I needed to make myself as tiny and convenient as possible, to not get in anyone’s way or ask for things.
So when I was angry, or bitter, or depressed, my family would give me dirty looks and gossip about me behind my back. Share shameful secrets about my difficulties with hygiene. Keep me away from my younger cousins because I would “poison their minds” because I vocally expressed suicidality. I cut myself and they’d shame me for it and then promptly look away and never address it again.
For years and years - up until this last month I’ve been addressing my trauma - I thought they were lovely, mentally-well adjusted people and that I must be the most rotten, unlovable type of human in the world to be rejected and ostracized by them.
I realize now that the way they brushed my trauma - and thus me, in my entirety - under the rug and turned their cheeks was WRONG. I didn’t deserve it. I wasn’t a bad child, there’s no such thing in my opinion. All I’d known in my entire life up to that point was violence, hatred, and isolation. Somehow that was my fault, and it put a stain on my soul that everyone could see.
I never had a goddamn chance.
Just wrote a post about this! SAME!
My therapist back then literally told me "A lot of your issues seems socially based. The only way to ease them is by positive reinforcement of new social interactions". Meanwhile, when people notice/ even worse, when I TELL people, they get really offended. "Oh, how dare you use me as therapy. It's not MY job to deal with YOUR trauma! That's your own problem to solve"
Like. I didn't ask you to be my therapist. I only wanted you to be a good friend -be supportive, mindful, not directly judgemental.
Oh yeah, even my therapist agreed this is a really common problem with people. They always assume that venting means you want them to fix something for you, or give you advice. Sometimes - and this goes 100x further with people like us - we literally just want someone who cares about us to listen.
I often fall into this trap of feeling like, if I tell someone my trauma, & they look at me and say “You didn’t deserve that. It’s not your fault, I love you” that everything will be okay. How am I 23 and still never heard that from anybody in my life? Where’s the humanity?
I think about this often. If only we're told "I'm so sorry that happened, it's not your fault, you are loved" more often. If only more people were more empathetic. Some interactions have left me perplexed, hurt and more damaged at why some people can't treat us that way. But again and again I have had to come to the conclusion that not everyone can, it's not simple to some people, because of their own abilities, skills and background stuff, or whatever it is that causes them to be like that. It really hurts, but it can't be helped. If someone is not able to treat us the way we need, we have to hope we will find it elsewhere. Because that's the thing, validation heals. We need it from others, not just from ourselves. It's those positive interactions and experiences that heals. We're not supposed to survive alone.
I'm so sorry to hear that no one has told you those words. You didn't deserve your trauma, it was never your fault, and even I'm just a stranger and don't know you, I love you ❤️
Oh yeah, I definitely don’t blame individuals if they’re not capable of that. For example my ex has emotional issues of his own and I know for a fact he cared about me and didn’t think I deserved that… but he never said any of those things either. I know everyone is different and that’s okay… I just worry it’ll never come…
And thank you 😭
Even if the rest of the world - and our abusers - took accountability and fixed themselves, we would still be broken. We would still need to fix our own problems. That just the way it is, no amount of accountability from others will change that
I partly agree to that. Any required self-work can’t be substituted, no denying that. BUT… I’ve had a v rare instance of someone who caused me trauma in the past come back and make up for it (6 years later 🥴). I no longer ever feel any pains associated with them.
It’s a very very rare thing. That person had a whole personality change to be honest.
So yeah, can’t wait on that. But I disagree on how much impact someone making amends has on those specific wounds.
For example there is no amount of internal change, or “making up for the abuse”, that would make me feel comfortable having a relationship with my mother. That bridge burned to the ground a long time ago and the ashes got swept away in the wind. There’s no chance of that happening. & to try and have a relationship with her would hinder my progress and be a huge disservice to myself and my inner child. But that’s in extreme cases
I didn’t say it would have no impact. I said it wouldn’t fix what is broken inside of us, which is true regardless of if our relationship with that person improves. The trauma still lives within us and will not be healed just because the pain associated with the individual has healed. I’d also disagree that you can ever truly have a healthy relationship with a past abuser. Maybe on a conscious level things feel alright, but that doesn’t make it so.
Could be a case by case thing or just happened to be specific for me in that case.
It did fix almost everything that trauma caused me. The insecurities I took from it, the fears I took from it, everything.
The person literally was no longer cruel to me. I did not end up having a deep relationship with them like before, but remain cordial till today (15 years of having known them now).
Also, they weren’t an abuser. Just from a time of immaturity in our age. I’ll agree that if it was someone who destroyed my life or assaulted me, it won’t work (I have one such person who tries to play nice and I avoid them like the plague 🤢).
But don’t you think “what’s broken in us” was broken by other people? Sure, some of our behavior patterns led to it. That’s our work to fix. But the damage on top of it was something unnecessary that would not have occurred were it not for that abuser (since not every person happens to cause us trauma despite our flaws being present). You only discover vulnerabilities once you come across someone who can exploit it.
I kinda feel now you’re reiterating the statement I made about what the world keeps saying and missing the point of the main comment.
Maybe so, but I’m speaking on what I know based on my own experience, not on outside influence. I tend to disregard anything said by society because society is wrong about most things.
Yes, the damage was caused by someone. Yes, forgiving them may heal some parts of you. But the trauma itself and the way your brain re-wired is not something that’s going to be fixed through external validation or a better relationship with the person who caused the trauma.
A lot of what you said here makes it sound like we’re on the same page, but you say you disagree with me. I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with
This is why cptsd has no one solution for one person, nor same solution for every instance of trauma for that one person.
I’m just tired, sigh.
I agree self-work seems to be the only logical solution. But sticking to that (and not the self-shaming way of “it’s all my fault if it keeps happening to me, something must be wrong with me way”; but actually acknowledging when I was wrong vs wronged and working on myself) still didn’t solve much for me. Trying to have a better relationship w myself felt unfulfilling (and realizing I’m actually quite okay with myself and loved myself a lot, it’s only externalities that cause me to internalize trauma). Finding “better” people (which even my therapist thought were so) didn’t work out either (retramatised me worse). It all just stacked up to my current jaded position.
So I guess I was disagreeing on that one point that the rare case an abuser acknowledges their hurt and makes amends can work, since it’s the only example of overcoming past trauma I carried in present. I have failed to make any other solution work so far. And I know that’s not really an accessible option. So I’m still trying.
I used to hear, “ I believe you, I just can’t believe he would do that “????? Made everything worse
I only avoid life when I become aggressive in my mental state otherwise I tend to flip like a switch and actually try stuff
Half of me wonders I do have multiple personalities lmao
Have you researched into IFS? It made me realize that I genuinely have these distinct “parts” of me that get triggered and come out in certain situations, & my true “self” runs and hides to avoid the pain. This is why I might dissociate, blow up, cry, etc instead of taking the time to cope and come back to the conflict in my right mind. My “right mind” literally shuts down.
Main difference from DID is that I have no memory loss and my parts seemed to be blended together, it’s hard to see where one ends and another begins. It sucks
This is one of the hardest parts of this “thing”, the various ways we use to escape, to extremes.
I am in my early 30s. I attend therapy, specifically EMDR focused on this. I have no damn clue how to fix the avoidance because what I observe is a high sensitivity to distress/anxiety which is caused by my exposure to stressful events. And the prolonged exposure has made me more suicidal and depressed. Its a messed up situation
This is where I have found Polyvagal theory so helpful.
It takes a different approach. It suggests going extremely slowly to avoid going back into reactive states such as shutdown, freeze, dissociation, etc. The idea is that once you go back into these overwhelm states you can no longer learn, grow, or be present.
I did a lot of talk therapy and meds that would improve things up to a point, but never any further. At some point, I always froze or avoided. When I found a coach who said "we're not doing any cliff jumping. We're going to go very, very slowly" things changed for me.
It's much slower than I'd like, but I can move into situations and challenges now that I would run from in the past.
Some of us would agree that the moment an alcoholic becomes aware of their alcoholism, they become responsible for it. I feel that way about my CPTSD, as well. That means that in those moments when I have the clarity to know that I've been triggered and am experiencing fear that is not connected to the present, it's my responsibility to use my tools to bring myself to the present.
Use your tools. You won't remain fucked. Change is the only constant. You might even find yourself enjoying the act of living. ❤️
This perspective didn't work for me until I found a coach that understood that "getting sober" didn't feel better and I didn't know how to function while "sober." I didn't enjoy living sober.
I think, too often, people trying to help expect us to feel better when we're doing better. I didn't. Every time I improved I saw a new level of shit I had to deal with. Once I understood this, made accommodations for it, and used tools to help while sober, then I started to see genuine change. Until then, I didn't want to give up the tools of dissociation, hiding, shutting down, and hyper-vigilance.
I’m having trouble understanding your comment, could you clarify what you mean? What was it that made things feel easier?
Over the decades I've worked with a lot of therapists and psychiatrists. Many of them were able to take me to a certain level of progress, but no further. Then I met a CPTSD coach who was able to move me past that point.
My interpretation is that my coach understood something that the others didn't. She understood that each step forward can reveal new threats and set off more alarms. For example, you may make progress by permitting yourself to replace some old clothes. Great, right? Well, for me, it could set off alarm bells of "who the hell do you think you are?" "Oh, are you a big shot now?," or it could cause me to freeze or dissociate.
When I was able to verbalize those messages, a therapist could help me work through them. But when my nervous system would go into freeze or dissociation, the therapists had no idea how to proceed or explain what was happening. They couldn't see the decades-long pattern of freezing or dissociating that occurred after making progress.
The critical piece for me was when my coach recognized that after progress, my nervous system would likely go into freeze or dissociation. Just the acknowledgement was an enormous relief. She understood. The lingering problem was my nervous system's responses when getting better.
To address this, she slowed everything way down, using tiny, incremental steps and re-regulating the nervous system after each baby step. The idea was to avoid putting the nervous system into any form of overwhelm which would trigger dissociation, freeze, etc.
So ultimately, what's made it feel easier is learning to listen to myself, including my body, through meditation, polyvagal exercises, walking, etc. and understanding how to work with my nervous system. It also really helped to understand that the nervous system operates automatically and much faster than my thoughts. My nervous system requires a different approach than talk therapists provided.
I hope that answers your questions.
Your coach seems really good at their job, any chance they could impart more gems, like where/how they learned?
Thank you for this response - so affirming
Are people with cptsd who don’t face it able to be a productive working person in society? I’ve been struggling for 6 years. Through not only ptsd but bipolar, anorexia for a couple years, had ECT, all treatments, inpatient, everything. I really feel like it’s all my fault, I’m stable but still on disability, overwhelmed, avoiding trauma work. I’m just wondering when I should give up hope.
Please never give up. I'm always free to talk
Thank you, I do suffer with chronic SI, but by give up hope I mean to give up the dream that I can do more than be a wife and mother. I love those things but I was a nurse also before this happened.
Edit: And my kids are older now. Officially adults.
I always hoped I’d marry and be a mom but …
In many cases, yes... but that's often all they are. They'll labor all their lives, dreading the idea of not constantly having something going on that will take them away from themselves. You'll be great at spreadsheets or ad jingles or going to meetings or whatever... but it isn't for anything. No passion, no dreams (maybe nightmares), none of the beauty that people ascribe to life.
"If you want a picture of that future, imagine a cube farm employee updating columns in a spreadsheet - forever."
Thank you so much for this. I switched careers over 10 years ago to nursing and I work in an area where I can really make a difference to my patients and their families but for many years my mental illness prevented me from continually working. My family means more than anything but my career means a lot to me also. I’ve generally been advised by therapists and psychiatrists not to work as it leads me to mental instability but I keep wanting to try again and skip the whole resolving trauma thing, but it hasn’t yet worked.
I'm not sure what you mean by trying to live by avoiding real life?
edit: fixed the way it was written.
For me it means dissociating, hiding, being afraid to connect with others, avoiding joy, and ignoring my needs. I took "trying to live" as meaning "trying to survive."
I often say I’ve been existing my whole life but not living it
I often think of the quote, “I reject your reality and substitute my own.” I never knew why Adam Savage’s words rang so true for me until I got my diagnosis. But it really does make sense that I spent so much time in my own imagination and creative endeavours. And why I hate dealing with things like money or disappointment or any of the other very normal things that act as triggers for me. But like a lot of the other commenters say, therapy has helped ground me and give me a wider perspective to better function as an adult human in the society.
Are you me? Exactly how I feel.
Uh… No? Yes? Maybe? Look in a mirror right now! Is it you or me? Or wait? Us? I don’t know how to test this.
😀 Lol aww. But yeah so much of what you wrote is exactly how I feel often.
Yep, you're right. The biggest leaps of healing for me have been moments where I realised that my programming was all wrong - that the world isn't full of abusers waiting to get me; that I'm not some reprehensible monster in a poor disguise.
oh wow that is such a good way to put it.
Yeah certainly did me.. still avoid people for the most part. Not because I don't want to be there but because I don't want anyone to see just how not an adult and a total hot mess I am. Its.. isolating.
The more I learned how my childhood messed me up, I realized I can't really get better since there is so much about me I never want anyone to know. That doesn't make a worthwhile relationship like that, like a closed book, so I'm stuck isolating. On the outside things might look fine, but I really don't like this world, too cruel and destructive for me as a highly sensitive person.
Same, unfortunately for me I’m dealing with some health issues so the world is forcing me to engage with its cruel nature
Well this hits home hard. I was just recently diagnosed with CPTSD by my psychotherapist. This is one of the first things I tried to verbalize to her ~ this feeling that I’m just floating through life not really connecting or doing things that are constructive. I’m in my 50’s and married for25 years, together for 35 years with a man who also has CPTSD and neither one of us knew til this year when our lives literally imploded from all the shit. He’s had addiction issues for years, alcohol/drugs/porn/gambling/sex…..and I have just drifted along accepting everything. Freaking out, then turning a blind eye to it all and just living in this utter state of self denial and oblivion. We don’t own our house. We have debt so huge we are on the verge of complete bankruptcy. Oh but we knew how to have fun. Booze. Drugs. Smoking. Eating at the best restaurants. Just drifting through life. Now both our health has suffered, I had a heart attack 6 years ago from all the stress of dealing with his craziness. The abuse. Verbal and emotional abuse so severe that my self esteem just plummeted. His addiction to women. The lies. And I just kept putting up with it. Just putting my head in the sand. He recently went off the deep end and had a psychotic episode induced by overdose of mushrooms. During that episode he caused so much damage to our relationship- he had a “relationship “ with a hooker that turned out to be a scam and he got swindled out of $500 in Apple iTunes cards. He ended up in the mental hospital against his will for weeks, and that’s when I learned that he had been sexually abused as a child - his social worker told me that his sexual acting out was textbook survivor behaviour. Well that just great. So basically it was information overload for me- which caused me so much anxiety that I went to therapy and am now dealing with my childhood trauma that I never dealt with. Sexual, emotional. My father is my abuser. As well I was abused by his best friend. Lots of forgotten memories- I’m just a wreck now. And now this diagnosis of CPTSD explains so much about my life . But what’s next? I don’t know what or who I am anymore. I don’t trust my own judgment about people AT ALL. It’s very disorienting. I’m happy I found this group though.
Psychotherapist can diagnose? Pretty sure that’s out of their scope of practice…unless they have phd
They can’t? What do you mean? If I’m dealing with a psychotherapist for my trauma and she tells me that I have CPTSD I’m supposed to not believe her?
Cptsd doesn't fuck my life. It literally saved my life. Abuse and abusers fucked my life - not the effects it had on me. I needed to dissociate in order to survive. Without cptsd I would be dead, addicted or psychotic.
Its literally that…I could of never said it that good…
Could *have
Sorry English is not my first language lol
I feel I've been met with this reality over and over again, I struggle to put myself in others shoes when it really matters and lose the real meaning of companionship because of my head. I'm one of the lucky ones because I have a partner who doesn't necessarily understand it, but he listens to reason once my head has cooled down. One thing I found is distraction techniques work wonders with me, some days I don't stop and feel tonnes better for accomplishing all these little things we all take for granted ❤️ It's the little things, be involved and don't forget what's important going forward, you've got this.
So when I was like 10?? My (one of my abusers) step dad told me 'all you do is game to escape reality'... I didn't know how right he was until now. 😭👍
There are so many times that I just don’t see the point of existing.This is why parents should have a license to be parents or there should be some fucking intensive mandatory course before having them. Unpopular opinion I know.
For me, it’s both avoiding and controlling. I just feel like I’m 1000times more sensitive than everyone else, like everything is so hard or scary or dangerous. My window of tolerance feels so small sometimes. And I don’t feel safe. Even in my own home - I moved house not too long ago and it’s an old house and the windows are noisy and I am afraid it might have lead in it and I love it in so many ways but I can’t settle because of all the ‘what ifs’ or the constant triggers. And no one else around me seems remotely bothered by these things, yet for me it’s like climbing Everest every day just to get through without a meltdown. I feel as though I have to micromanage every little thing in my environment to make sure I can feel OK, to not freak out, to feel even a tiny bit safe. I am so tired of being brave, or being strong, or putting on a brave face. I don’t feel brave - I feel small, alone, and desperately afraid. Of everything. And whilst I know many people get suicidal, I am so afraid of death that even at my very worst, that was never a thought for me. I want to live, I desperately want to live and live well, I just wish the world wasn’t so scary and threatening for me all the time. I just want to wrap myself up in duvets and blankets and be safe from it all.
I hear you
Yep, you tend to avoid daily life things that might exacerbate your anxiety. It sucks.
Hello and Welcome to /r/CPTSD! If you are in immediate danger or crisis, please contact your local emergency services, or use our list of crisis resources. For CPTSD Specific Resources & Support, check out the wiki. For those posting or replying, please view the etiquette guidelines.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
💯 I got so good at avoidance it took years to deal with reality
Absolutely f**king-lutely. Thank you for sharing this. What you've said is very authentic, raw, and I didn't know that I really needed to read your message. I feel less alone and validated reading your words!
It's a tragic and horrible reality most of us face. It doesn't mean we are doomed. But what you've said fully acknowledges that yes, the traumas we experienced are genuinely so screwed up, and it's not our fault, and that the impact of this causing Complex PTSD is also so screwed up and unfair.
Because yes, so many of us have no choice but to avoid so much or everything day to day in order to survive. But due to this, many of us also feel that we aren't really able to live a life at all. You're right. This realisation and experience for each individual is either a very acute pain in the forefront or a heavy, creeping, overhanging pain in the background.
The people that cause us these traumas and Complex PTSD in and of it's are what is fcked up. We are not at fault. We are not fcked up. But these traumas and them causing Complex PTSD, is all fcked up... and it sucks so much that we have to deal with this all this f*kery.
Sorry for my swears. They rarely come out. Maybe because OP was so authentic and honest, it's impacted me and my communication in a way that actually feels good and healthy to me. Cathartic.
To anyone feeling angry, rage, sadness, grief, tears, emptiness, powerless, despair fear about CPTSD and your traumatic history--- you're feelings are valid, and you are not alone. Here in this group, you are not alone ❤️ I and others see you. We care ❤️ sincerely, with all of my heart ❤️ Thank you for being here!
OP - thank you for posting as well; for sharing your experience whilst simultaneously acknowledging the predicament and hell so many of us experience each day. These silent battles that others don't see and acknowledge. Thank you for doing the opposite. Thank you for seeing and acknowledging it. Thank you for seeing me and others through your honest expression.
I wish you and everyone else here all the very best and a manageable, safe day ahead ❤️
I love and appreciate everyone here!
"Why is it so hard to feel like I'm living in a real life? No but for real like, I wake up everyday...and try to get my fucking head right, but I didn't sleep in a bed last night, every time I feel okay well it just puts me in the headlights."
Lyrics to a song I'm writing lol.
Im not sure if it’s just CPTSD for me but I definitely get it. Since i was a kid much of what i did was trying to avoid real life, because the life i was having was already hell and i couldn’t imagine what adult life must be like. Now i know that not to be the case, but at this point the fear is almost pathological
Yes fear is so pathological to me.
Thank you all for sharing. I’ve been scrolling through posts for a while now and I feel like so many of them are so parallel to my own experiences. Would hope to share more later but wanted to Thank everyone!
Here for you, message me whenever
Thanks
TRIGGER WARNING
Not sure how to post trigger warning or how to post on this subreddit
CPTSD was a bit of a self diagnosis .
Trigger warning. As a child, I was raped by my father from aged 3-14. My mom stood at the door to our room ( me and my sister) ( I was around 9 by that time)for a minute and I thought she was going to save me but she walked away and I remember thinking I’m dead.
As an adult, I got pregnant the first time I had sex and miscarried. The man was someone who had been my first everything from first kiss to everything else although he didn’t know. One night, during an intimate moment, I flipped and started screaming at him to get the f-k away from me and then started crying uncontrollably. He held me as I cried and asked who had done that. I kept crying and he asked if it was my father and nodded yes.
I also have been drugged and raped , sexually assaulted and almost raped while in hospital, I had a stalker for over ten years and lost some of my closest friends to illness and suicide.
I have been going for counselling and have been on medication most of my life. I have been through ECT and ketamine treatments and intense trauma therapy which always made things worse.
This “sub” is an amazing safe place for me as I read about others with CPTSD and how they manage, their triggers, flashbacks…and for the first time in a very very long time, I feel a little less alone.
I can def relate to this one
It does for a long time. I have been trying to empower myself with my cptsd and I'm also a support worker and help other people with cptsd which helps a lot.
I tell myself I'm not my trauma and that it's just a part of me. I thought everyone was watching me and thinking how weired I was, hardly anyone cares.
I embrace the days where I'm weired, awkward or having a bad trauma day, I allow myself not to be perfect now. I just chat to people and go in with no expectations and I just try to take what I can from the interaction.
I still isolate a lot but just talking to random people at the park or when I order a subway is a good start for me. If I'm weired it doesn't matter and most the friends I have left still want to know me even if I have a bad day or I don't feel myself.
I think we are our worst enemy sometimes. It's been one of the first years I've began to challenge my self hatred and tried to grow some form of self love.
We are all so fucking strong, we feel weak, defeated and broken. The truth is we are doing the best with what we have and that is pure strength.
We face night terrors, panic attacks ,flashbacks, disassociation, drug abuse, alcoholism and the crippling sense of loss. We rise the next day to face it again and that makes us fucking strong!
When I first started to challenge the self hatred and the loud ,shrill voice that destroyed me for not magically recovering from trauma, it was loud.
The more I challenged it the quieter it got and now it tries sneaky attacks when I have a bad day, but it is a demon that can only live by feeding off of our self hatred. When you refuse to let it beat you down and slowly strong arm it, the seeds of self esteem begin to grow.
I have been beaten, I was raped, self destructed on drugs and alcohol, went through hell getting sober, and I got beaten again. I get punched at work regularly by my disabled clients.
I refuse to let self hatred take me now though, because I'm strong and so is everyone in this sub. The minute you congratulate yourself for fighting and can say one good thing about yourself is when the demon begins to shrink and love takes its place.
Wow 😓
I always felt I am being shut out and excluded from real life. So I felt the only thing I can do is to isolate myself even further. Kind of akin to what you’re stating there.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
I'm pretty sure the majority of us are intelligent enough to realize the things that stick around when we stop believing in them. Just because we had abusers, and we suffer from CPTSD doesn't mean we are space cadets detached from reality.
On the contrary, it takes accepting the reality of our situations and the resulting feelings to begin our healing journeys. Without accepting what happened to us in the first place, accepting reality, we would never even know we have trauma in the first place.
Reality is working, paying bills, socializing when we are able, and using our coping mechanisms including art therapy, aromatherapy, etc. and meds if need be. I've been around other people, and I see what they do in a day. They work, pay bills, run errands, work, pay bills, run errands. I mean, we aren't that special even though we suffer. We do the same things everyone else does except we battle unfortunate CPTSD symptoms like sound sensitivity, anxiety, etc on top of it. A lot of us also have social lives of close friends we trust. We do make our way out to restaurants, bars, and fun now and again.
That’s a good insight. I feel you. This sub works better than therapy for me. Only place I feel people understand me.