How do you choose forgiveness?

I'm not sure forgiveness is possible when they keep doing the same behaviors over and over.

What I've learned is that I had to forgive myself. I felt so guilty about not stopping my abusers from abusing others, and for my freeze/fawn response.

I don't forgive my abusers and I never will. That can't happen for me because there is no accountability from them nor is there change.

Honestly, being no contact was the best decision I ever made. They will never change and I can't force them to, but I can change, and so I did.

You can't really forgive behavior that is continuous. The way forgiveness works is, if they have changed and are no longer abusive, then you can decide to let go of past pain to have a better relationship. OR you can forgive the way they are and why, but choose not to be in their life because of the continued abuse. If you stick around, but continue to accept abuse for the sake of having them in your life, that's just enabling.

I don't forgive people that haven't acknowledged their toxic behaviors, acknowledged the harm done, have taken full accountability and genuinely repented, and changed their toxic behaviors. And even then, they'd still have to repair the rupture in attachment through demonstrating trustworthy, re-humanizing behaviors over time. (The Trust Triangle, The Anatomy of Trust - marble jar concept and BRAVING acronym, 10 definitions of objectifying/dehumanizing behaviors - these erode trust)

Don't fall into the forgiveness spiritual bypassing trap.

I dropped the rope and walked away. My boundary is no contact bc they're unwilling/unable to take accountability and change their behaviors. I respect myself enough to walk away and grieved the "loss".

I can so relate to this. It's a process and low contact is the best tool I have utilized. It can get better with practice to just grey rock and not respond.

You don't have to forgive. They don't deserve it.

I don't forgive people who are remorseless. I don't remain bitterly vengeful, and I don't let the misdeeds of others consume me, but I have no forgiveness for the people who maliciously hurt me and, to this day, feel no remorse.

All three members of my family - both parents and my sibling - have abused the fuck out of me over the years. All three believe I ultimately deserved it, that I was a bad seed who needed to be brought to heel.

I don't forgive any of them for what they did, and I don't have to. I moved on a long time ago from what my father did to me; it will take time for me to get over what my mother has done.

Healing isn't about forgiving, or finding a way to forgive. It's about finding a way to move beyond your trauma, so you can be aware of its influences and actively reject the bad habits and thought patterns it's created in your psyche. It's also about recognizing bad patterns in others, and cutting those people out of your life if their bad patterns both harm you and continue indefinitely.

I think it's important to define what forgiveness means to you and then determine if you even should be choosing it.

For me, forgiveness is what you give a pet that destroys your sofa cushions when you're at work. It's what you offer a toddler who finds an expensive lipstick and uses it to write on the walls.

A lot of people out there have the harmful take that 'forgiveness' is absolutely essential to recovery/healing/moving on.

Fuck that. Some people, most people, do not deserve 'forgiveness' and the act of trying to give it to them anyway actively harms our own self worth. We're saying that they deserve grace, even when it's at the expense of our own wellbeing.

It doesn't matter if the perpetrator had a valid excuse, or that they apologized or repented in some way.

That doesn't and will never undo the very real physiological and psychological damage they caused you. We can accept an apology, we can acknowledge attempts to become a better person. We can choose to let something go.

But we can do that without forgiving them. And that's fine. We don't owe them forgiveness, we don't owe them anything.

If the emotion is only coming up when conflict arises you might consider if what you're feeling is protective new anger, not old anger. Not hate for past issues, but anger that is new and arising in the moment to help you defend yourself.

You're never going to be able to "forgive" if what you're actually attempting to do is not have new anger for being treated poorly.

kind of hard to forgive when the first abuses happened at 3-4 years old and went on for 50 years... this was an adopted mum who appeared kind to everyone. she has literally ruint my life. she even appeared kind to me 🤷🏻 but that is covert abuse :(

When talking about forgiveness it usually refers for the victim to forgive for themselves in order not to feel angry and bitter. But why would you want to forgive the people that abused you and keep them in your life? They're the same people who hurt you. The time that passed didn't change them.

You don't lol

i don’t forgive 🤷‍♀️ i said i did and thought i did for years, but i’m still suffering and they are free and unchanged. so i don’t forgive. it’s healthy to feel anger sometimes, especially when you’ve been wronged. holding it in, repressing it, pretending it’s not there, often has very bad consequences

I don’t

I don't. I'm not interested in forgiving them and I don't think they deserve it. I don't think I need to forgive them to move forward.

The only forgiveness I’m focused on is towards myself, to bolster self-love. Unfortunately, don’t know that I’ve ever met a toxic/manipulative/abusive person who actually changes ever, even less so once forgiven. Hell, they usually won’t even apologize, much less work on repairing or changing. Why should I do more emotional labour to let THEM off the hook?

I have a lot of family trauma plus religious trauma, and I’m convinced the “you must forgive to heal” is propaganda designed by abusers. If we put this pressure and expectation of forgiveness on the victims, abusers can get away with it all over & over again, just like in OP’s experience.

I hope to find forgiveness in my heart someday, but for me, I think it will be when the anger & hurt has finally died. And I think it will have everything to do with ME and nothing to do with the actual abusers. I think forgiveness is a personal choice, not ever a requirement.

I don't. I have so many grudges I could open shop.

Forgiveness is less about choosing to think kindly/approvingly of who hurt you and more to do with choosing to redirect your energy to whatever fuels your health, purpose and sense of joy. It is learning and working to keep yourself loving and trustful and away from despair.

But you will only be able to choose it when you have gotten yourself to a safe and supportive environment and established proper and professional help. And even then, it will often take a large amount of time until it is part of your emotional regulation.

So don’t be discouraged from your dark and painful emotions after trying to forgive, OP. It’s still a repercussion of the trauma you went through and it’s nothing you can’t face as long as you remember to live for whatever blessings await you both during and after your healing process.

Wishing you the best and safest recovery…❤️‍🩹

Pete Walker has written a lot of great stuff about trauma, but the book of his that I found the most helpful is specifically about forgiving your abusers. It's called The Tao Of Fully Feeling: Harvesting Forgiveness From Blame.

The tldr is that you have to fully feel your resentment, anger, righteous indignation, etc toward your abusers until you come out the other end. Not that forgiveness is guaranteed to be waiting for you once you get there, but that if it's ever going to happen, this is the path to get there. I personally got a lot out of fully feeling my rage at my parents. I don't feel the need to forgive them anymore, especially because they have not changed, but I do have room for them in my life again. Very very very sparingly and on my terms.

I can't forgive my ex because it opens me up to getting back with her, and that can't happen. It's better to move on with my life and simmer with her abuse than forgive her and reconcile.

You can’t heal in constant close proximity of abuse. Something close to it may be acceptance, but at your detriment if it hurts & keeps hurting you. If you keep getting burnt there’s a lesson there.

Self preservation in terms of health & wellbeing is the most important thing in anyone’s life in order to live well. I can’t count the amount of times I’ve excused events until I was hit hard from all angles & in my head I was ruminating over the same question “how do I forgive this in so much pain & agony”….

I was upset & confused for days trying to get back to where I was…. The pattern became more & more obvious. I started seeing these people trapped in a projected reality. If I had no reaction they hated it & tried harder to hurt me… They could not bare for me to finally find my voice to stand up for myself rationally, keeping myself together… They could not handle me picking myself up again & continuing life smiling & going out with good intentions, it unnerved them me finding myself & my strength once again…

Finally they admitted their goal was to be abusive, they rejected any suggestion they needed help & preferred to take out all their worldly anger & upset on me. After those words I had no way of forgiving them - they admitted they wanted to hurt me ‘because they could.’

If a person ever turns around and wants to change it’s easy to support them & gain a lot of respect- it’s honourable to back down and turn your life around. However to continue being cruel based on getting a kick out of putting someone down- it’s an illness that’s not easy to see when you can get up in it… Make sure you don’t. They need help. And you deserve peace, love & harmony like everyone else 🩷 (The most important person you look after is yourself) x

I forgave the people who hurt me in my mind for not being the people I needed in my life. I made the distinction I want more beautiful, kind, loving people in my life, who make me feel good to be around as I hope I am good too to be around too x Since I made this decision I feel a new door is opening in life slowly that hasn’t before in the same way… (It’s amazing to think I’ll never allow myself to be in the company of anyone who treats me that way again. I will just walk away. ☺️)

A better question is "Why would you choose forgiveness?"

to me, forgiveness is about consciously acknowledging and choosing to let go of the negative feelings that come up in me towards them. that doesn't mean I'll let them do whatever they want to me, or even be in my life. I can let go of the stronger negative feelings while still retaining indifference or a mild dislike towards them. it's not about being buddy-buddy with them.

forgiveness is for me, not for them. it's to be able to move on with my life unencumbered by heavy feelings.

For me, letting stuff go became possible once I came out of survival mode and realised and accepted that there are endless opportunities that will come in the future which offer me bigger and better things than I have ever experienced. The past and present become less important when viewed through that lens

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Forgiving doesn’t mean forgetting, things you forgive people for can still alter and/ or impact how you interact with people moving forward, it just means you’re not holding a grudge over it and won’t try to get some kind of penance for it. You can still be angry/ upset at times and still forgive them. Forgiveness can come with the understanding there’s always gonna be a level of distrust/ awareness of what actions have been taken and it’s gonna impact how the relationships work for those involved.

“I forgive you, I still want you to leave me alone.” Can’t count how many times I’ve said this.

What you’re describing though is PTSD. Triggers making things feel fresh is so common I’m surprised when it doesn’t happen. This is just what trauma does to living things.

You have a thinking mind that is verbal and intellectual and also a feeling mind that is nonverbal and emotional. Your thinking mind can make the decision "I forgive this person" while you have limited conscious control over your feeling mind. Your feeling mind creates a negative emotional reaction to people and things it wants to protect you from so its forgiveness is when it lets go of those reactions. Your feeling mind is nonverbal so it can't understand when the thinking mind thinks "I forgave this person." It needs to have emotionally healing experiences with a person to let go of the emotional wounds and forgive that person.

I haven't forgiven but I have gotten to a place of acceptance. Like, this is their behavior and they're not going to change and I was abused. I've since worked on myself to unlearn toxic survival skills and set boundaries.
Those two things have vastly improved my mental health.

When toxic patterns arise, I can use all the skills I've learned in therapy to regulate myself enough to get out of the situation and enforce my boundaries.

I'm not sure those wounds will ever be fully healed. Like old physical injuries that rear their heads from time to time, I can acknowledge it's there and make plans for when I think the wound will be aggregated to mitigate the pain.

i only forgive my mom cuz its my mom. she could have killed me if she wanted to the moment i was born :) instead she inherently loved me completely

Yeah, I told my family how their abuse affected me. I was told I was too sensitive and I needed to get over myself.

Then as I became an adult I realized they both have deeply rooted issues form "their" abusive upbringing and found temporary forgiveness.

I had another conversation about growing as a family and working together. That lasted for a day.

Both parents are deeply flawed humans deserving of kindness. I still fucking hate their guts for how they treat me.

I haven't chosen forgiveness through therapy but I learned acceptance and also came to some realizations of things I was able to learn through the experience. Letting me grow from it instead of being stuck in it.

I wouldn't say I've completely let it go. For example his life is miserable now and that makes me happy. That part I don't feel obligated to feel guilty about or heal with. I'm allowed to feel a sense of justice in my own way through knowing that they are miserable and have a terrible life.

Forgiveness is a tricky slippery slop right back to being retraumatized. I wish I had been able to go no contact much sooner for my own sake and my own family’s. Truly I think I had to forgive myself instead. They will never change. I just lost precious time.

I didn't, I chose to remove them from my life and in doing so remove their ability to continue the abuse. I have worked on accepting what happened to me and handling the issues it has brought me and not having them in my life means their mere existence is not bringing it all up constantly when I see them or speak to them.

I won't ever forgive them but that doesn't mean I'm hanging on to what happened or allowing it to continue

One thing I find helpful is knowing that forgiveness is not the same thing as reconciliation. Reconciliation is an external process and is the process of reestablishing connection with someone after a breach. Forgiveness is an internal process and can be done from a distance.

You can forgive people for not knowing better, but if being around them means that they keep doing the same thing and hurting you, that's on you. It's your responsibility to protect yourself from people who've consistently shown that they aren't safe or healthy and have no intention of changing. You can be a forgiving person and still keep your distance from abusers for your own peace and safety.

Forgive does not mean forget. Forgiving does not mean that there is no consequence or cost to their actions. Oftentimes that cost means lack of relationship. It could mean loss of respect, Opportunities to bond and make new memories.

Forgiveness does not mean they have to have a place in your life anymore. Forgiving does not necessarily heal the pain they cause you.

I think sometimes forgiveness is just Acceptance And possibly understanding That you can't change the past and try to move on as best you can.

I don’t know that it is forgiveness, but I don’t have any challenging feelings towards mine anymore. I stopped thinking about them as my parents and started looking at them as just any other human.

One parent was an alcoholic with anger issues who parentified me. They would go on rages and slam things around the house, but I wasn’t afraid of them, just the unpredictability of their anger. I was their confidant and they never raged at me, but I remember being scared of their anger if not them. They were also the child of a high ranking state trooper who killed unwanted family pets (kittens) in brutal ways, making his children watch. He withheld love, affection, and praise and was an angry man who was overly critical. He was considered a good man and a good father in his time, but by today’s standards would have been arrested for abuse and neglect. My parent was a product of that trauma.

My other parent was adopted at birth and when they would ask about their biological family (POC in a very white family), they were told that they were a “bastard child and no one loved them.” They were horribly verbally, physically, and emotionally abused which they in turn played out with their own children. They have been diagnosed with CPTSD as an older adult, but it came too late to help their grown kids. My sibling and I already have our CPTSD that we are working through.

The shifting point was knowing that they were ultimately responsible for their own behavior, but they were poor and I was a kid in the 80’s and 90’s and a teen in the early 00’s. Therapy was expensive and stigmatized. You didn’t go to a shrink unless you had money or you were really messed up. My parents were products of their own generation and their own traumas and had no reasonable way to know about how to break their cycles. They are still responsible, just as I am responsible for every bit of damage I did when I was stuck in survivor mode. But I don’t hold any hard or challenging feelings for them anymore because for the resources and knowledge they had, they did the best they could.

That said, I don’t have adversarial relationships with either anymore. I have been able to set my boundaries and maintain them. I had to go no contact with the physically and emotionally abusive one for 10 years while I learned to self-regulate in their presence and hold my boundaries. It took some practice, but now I can have conversations with them about our experiences and how it shaped us. I am not friends with either of my parents, and I will be unable to care for either of them should they no longer be able to care for themselves, but I don’t feel there is anything left to forgive.

They got a bit nicer with age but never showed an ounce of regret for my treatment or made any amends, kept blaming me when I breached the subject, and they kept triggering old wounds, so I went no contact.