I visited Barcelona last weekend

Discussion

So first of all, I really was not impressed. Are there any special areas that could make the experience better there? I visited the Park Güell, la Rambla, was staying in a flat right across the park of Sagrada Famiglia, the gothic quarters and all that, but wasn't much impressed. The gothic quarters I liked and a Flamenco Show was absolutely spectacular, but the others imo were just meh.

What is the obsession with dust? A lot of areas were with walking paths/roads which were dusty.

I liked the public transport. The metro and the buses were very useful.

What I wondered, and I hope I don't offend anyone here, why would the Catalans want independence from Spain? From what I saw they have a high level of autonomy. Everywhere the first language was Catalan and the Spanish. Is there something I am missing here.

in Barcelonaby HeadbAngry

39%

2mo

Dimsum852

2mo

These posts have to be trolling, no one goes to a place for a city and say "hey, your city sucks, the most I enjoyed was a tourist trap". I mean no one has the level of lack of awareness.

neojgeneisrhehjdjf

2mo

Bro said I visited La Rambla 😭. And a flamenco show 😭😭😭😭

Baucha76

2mo

I’m heading to Barcelona in July. What is wrong with a flamenco show there? I’ve never seen one.

neojgeneisrhehjdjf

2mo

Flamenco is Spanish but not as prevalent or important in Catalonia. Same with bullfighting

tbri001

2mo

Nothing. But it would be like going to Paris to experience Bavarian October fest.

JohnHamFisted

-7

2mo

this is just so silly. Flamenco has a long and deep history in Barcelona and Catalunya, stemming from much earlier than the 50s when Andalusian migrants arrived (which would already make it a 70 year old tradition, but sure not enough for the purists in this sub).

But even ignoring the century long relationship between the music and the city, the people performing the vast majority of these flamenco shows are people born and raised in Barcelona by people born and raised in Barcelona. Are they not 'local' enough for this sub because they're not 'pure Catalan' is that the point?

Comparing the relationship of Barcelona - Flamenco to Paris and Bavarian Octoberfest is more than just ignorant, it's terribly wrong and misleading. (even if your point was correct it would be more akin to going to see a show of dances from Occitania in Paris which, you'll be shocked to hear, exist)

I get it you can score cheap points in this sub by making rambla/sangria jokes, but you don't need to lie and be so dismissive to the Roma community in Catalunya to get those.

ImpossibleCrisp

2mo

You are a bit lost mate.

Catalan Roma folks have been in Catalonia way before the immigration waves in the 50s and 60s. Like centuries before. Catalan Roma folks even invented new music genres that have NOTHING to do with Andalusia and Flamenco for that matter (Catalan Rumba, now appropriated by the Spanish as "Rumba Española"). Heck, they even invented new guitar techniques such as "El Ventilador" (El Pescaílla & Peret)

Catalan Roma folks are not necessarily descendent from Andalusia Roma folks. As a matter of fact, most aren't. Heck, Roma folks got into the Iberian Peninsula through Catalonia. We have reports as back as in the XVth century.

Flamenco is not typical from Catalan Roma folk, period. That some love it, like other non-Roma people do, have learned and mastered it is a different thing. They are Catalans doing something they love and getting money out of tourists. It's not, though, a typical Catalan thing. It doesn't have a big following among the local population and never had. It's almost like saying Circus is a Catalan thing and people should come to Barcelona to watch a Circus show. That's not a thing at all.

And mind you, Barcelona had Flamenco shows since the XIXth Century, but those were mostly staffed with Spanish artists. Flamenco has never been a big thing among the local population.

tbri001

2mo

Was going to respond with this a few days back when the commenter above got so triggered by me, but I didn't want to crush their outrage vibe; they seemed to be having a good time of it. But I was surprised they didn't mention, as an expert in local culture, La Rumba Catalana which is a fantastic example of cultural fusion, and there is plenty of history of that here in Gràcia. Thanks for filling the void.

ImpossibleCrisp

2mo

Tried to do my best!

I hate when minorities are used to attack other minorities. Catalan Roma are always undervalued and despised, not only for being Roma (by other Catalans) but by being Catalan (by Spaniards).

Fun fact, I partially grew up with Catalan Roma neighbours and some Caló words I took into my own vocabulary turns out are used by Roma people in other parts of Europe. A Romanian (non-Roma) person heard me use the word "churumbel" and they were like "oh, Roma people in Romania use 'churumbel' to refer to babies" and I was "holy crap, here too!" and it's so obvious but I'm half stupid so there's that :)

Other Caló words I hear "payos" use are: chinorri, biruji, fetén, mangar, pringar, chungo, piltra, chola, paripé... and so, so many...

Toc_a_Somaten

2mo

It's like going to Edinburgh and asking for a Sunday Roast and see to see the Beefeaters. You probably can get the Sunday roast in a restaurant and who knows, maybe some bootleg beefeater cosplaying for the tourists but neither things are "Scottish" and are just for tourists. Flamenco shows audiences in Barcelona are 95% tourists, its a cultural transplant from southern spain which does not represent the local Catalan culture which does have it's own very rich musical tradition including popular dances and singing.

zzziew

2mo

Yeah, we just really fucking love dust here

TomasToocherl

2mo

Spain is fucking dusty. I say the govt should give everyone a free Roomba.

Evilspatula666

2mo

I’d prefer one of those battery powered shark vacuums, roomba’s are just too random and always end up eating a curtain.

TomasToocherl

2mo

They resent other electric appliances and have an issue with low hanging curtains, but then you would if you ate dust all day. Best not to annoy them.

blockmebaby1moretime

2mo

Are there any special areas that could make the experience better there?

Nope, you covered everything, thx for coming!

[deleted]

2mo

Troll post

AmbitiousMonitor9903

2mo

100%

ababab70

2mo

You're right, nothing special. No idea why 15 million people visited last year. Sorry about the dust.

HeadbAngry

-10

2mo

Still doesn't make it more special. It's a personal opinion.

letmeseeurgame

2mo

If the highlight of your visit to Barcelona was a flamenco show for tourists, no wonder you don't understand the local politics.

Anyway if you don't like the place, what do you care if this country becomes independent or not? Move on, find a different city. There's plenty in the world.

HeadbAngry

-8

2mo

I am just asking questions because I want to understand the local politics. You're damn right I don't understand, this is why I asked.

Bejam_23

2mo

I think the point is that independence is a pretty complicated topic to explain and understand with lots of nuances and details.

And the content of your message suggests that you're probably not going to get it. No offense. .

HeadbAngry

-3

2mo

I come from Kosovo. Try me.

Bejam_23

2mo

OK... History, politics, emotions

HeadbAngry

2mo

Fair enough.

letmeseeurgame

2mo

Do you believe in democracy? Let Catalans decide about their future then. As simple as that. Got it?

HeadbAngry

2mo

I believe in democracy, but I also believe in wellbeing. Not saying you guys are bad at wellbeing, just saying having a good lifez for me, is more important than being able to have my own country.

As an Albanian from Kosovo, I'll take Kosovo under Yugoslavia between 1974 and 1989 (not under Serbia in th 90ies) rather than an independent Kosovo.

TomasToocherl

2mo

On this point you are correct. On a flamenco show in Barcelona (it's from the south of Spain) you are not. Spain is dusty all over. Next time bring a broom/cloth. ;)

ImpossibleCrisp

2mo

You don't get to choose though, you get Kosovo under Serbia in the 90s.

TomasToocherl

2mo

Not just the Catalans. All the people who live here and pay taxes/social security should be able to vote. And voting should be compulsory. All immigrants need to vote on this. And there should be a high threshhold for a win, like 80-90pc. Then a referendum could be considered.

And shouldn't the rest of Spain be able to vote on this? Like if you believe in democracy, after all, this is about Spain.

Bejam_23

2mo

I kind of understand your logic but if all Spain votes isn't it a bit like saying that you can only get a divorce if both people want one? That's seems problematic.

TomasToocherl

2mo

I take your point but I was saying, well, who gets to vote on this? The so-called referendum (the second one after Mas' joke effort) basically excluded immigrants. Nice touch. I was personally told by the guy handing out voting slips (per-lease) oh no you can't vote. Still have mine as a souvenir.

Im from the UK. Referendums are idiocy in general. Ridiculous.

Just as a case, if there was a Catalan referendum and everyone voted here and independence won 70-30, a big majority (totally impossible in reality). You have 3 in 10 adults who don't want this.

There would be political violence. Maybe decades of it.

My country partitioned its neighbour (Ireland) in 1921-22 and we have had a hundred years of violence. Thousands of dead. Many more seriously injured. An internal conflict the UK kind of pretends never happened. But people were killed repeatedly I grew up with bombs and cordons and family members being in bomb situations. And I'm from London.

Fancy that?

If you think im critiquing independistas from the right (PP/Vox) im not. I loathe the PP and Vox. But I think Catalan nationalism is nationalism. Junts are the Catalan PP. Independence lacks any class scrutiny of the situation. Really this about the financial crisis. It's another symptom of the crisis just like Brexit (many similarities) Trump, Vox etc etc...

I also understand Franco's brutal impact and suppression of Catalan/the region.

I'm sorry to say but I have also heard appalling levels of racism, anti-semetism and xenophobia from Independistas. Really awful. Not to mention the prejudice and ridiculous things said about other Spanish regions. 'Why do Andalusians get up at midday? To go the the pub.' Really?

Continue thread...

letmeseeurgame

2mo

Ok. Your option wins with 11% of the votes, while the option you don't suport must get 90% of the votes to win. Not very fair. You don't belive in democracy. No further questions.

TomasToocherl

2mo

Your maths is off.

Aside from that, if you had 51-49 win for either side you would have decades of violence. Majority tyrannies are not democracy.

It's you that doesn't understand democracy. Voting isn't democracy, it's much wider than that.

Continue thread...

Old-Emphasis-7190

2mo

If you disliked your time there enough to complain about it... why on Earth would you care about the local politics? You're clearly not interested in going back.

eita-kct

2mo

I live here and I can say it’s not that special in winter - however, it’s an amazing place to live and during summer.

BostonShortStop

2mo

Can't believe people are really debating this fool.

Moderator removed comment

2mo

Barcelona-ModTeam

2mo

Your content was removed for breaking the rules.

Be nice, no personal attacks, keep it civil.

Stick to the topic at hand and remain civil towards other users - attacking ideas is fine, attacking other users is not.

El teu contingut s'ha eliminat per infringir les regles.

Sigues amable, sense atacs personals, manté les converses civils.

Mantingueu-vos en el tema que ens ocupa i sigueu civils amb els altres usuaris: atacar idees està bé, atacar altres usuaris no.

AlternativeThanks450

2mo

You went to Barcelona and the highlight was a Flamenco show, it shows how poorly planned your trip was.

Hvef

2mo

Did you have a guide or audio guide ? It helps you understand the beauty of those places you just mentioned…

Sometimes, if you just visit for the sake of it you might lose the details that make them special..

Did you go inside the sagrada familia ?

Casa batllo ?

The ghotic quarter is more than just 2-3 streets, it has a lot of history

HeadbAngry

2mo

This is the kind of answer I was looking for. I did not have a guided tour. And no I did not get inside neither.

What would I have found inside casa Batllo?

The gothic quarters we visited quite thoroughly. Maybe this is why I liked it.

Most people here seem to have missed the point of my post as a diss, which it absolutely was not. I just thought I'd get more insight for potential future visits.

Thank you kind sir for the civilized response.

Sarradets

2mo

There is a Spanish forum where you could ask these same questions, it's called forocoches dot com, try it, they will gladly help you

AMorganFreeman

2mo

Wait, you mean you spent a weekend in tourist traps and as a result you did not gain nuanced understanding of local politics?

That's truly unbelievable.

Resident-Resolve612

2mo

As most people have said (very sarcastically😂), it seems like your trip wasn’t really planned ahead. Barcelona has infinite offer of entertainment, but it’s best if you research and ask for advice from people who know the things you like! - Reddit is a good place for recommendations.

I have no idea what you mean about the dust roads LOL perhaps I’m just used to them. But be mindful in Barcelona there is ALWAYS something being built or renovated so… a lot of dust.

IMO you missed out on great places Like spending an afternoon sitting in the Greek Theater…. Getting to know emblematic neighbourhoods like La Vila de Gracia… Eixample…. Going to Poble Espanyol… I mean… so much stuff 😂

TomasToocherl

2mo

Poble Espanyol is really ridiculous. Apart from La Terraza.

Former_Objective_924

2mo

It is like any trip, to get the most out of it one needs to plan and research. Spend at least twice the time you plan to visit the city to research its culture, highlights, places of interest, etc. There is so much information on the internet including youtube videos — way too much to post here . Once you decide your interests (outdoors? museums? architecture? food? ) read up on the places you plan to visit before your visit. It will be that much more enriching. If you are interested in politics, read up on recent history and upcoming elections. There is a lot out there. Do you even know about the Spanish civil war? Did you know Catalonia has been suffering from a severe drought, the worst in over 100 years? Also if you want positive feedback on future posts you should be mindful of what information you really want and avoid your poorly opinionated comments. Many may find where you live to be meh, or even worse.

HeadbAngry

-2

2mo

I know where I live is meh. In fact it's total bullshit. What I'm getting here from everyone is just butthurt. One even claimed I said your city sucks, which is nowhere in my post.

Now, as for traveling and research, this is not my first travel and I usually do my research. Granted for this trip I hadn't done it cause someone else had "done" it for me. The majority of the replies here seem to severely lack reading and comprehension skills. In my vary second sentence I ask for things I should visit if I go back in the future. But no, everyone bar one of the guys here chose to be butthurt.

Secondly, in fact I do know about the Spanish civil war. Many Kosovars and Albanians have fought on your side in it (check Petro Marko and Asim Vokshi).

As for my poorly opinionated comments, well their my opinions based on what I saw. I was not and am not planning to live in Barcelona but was talking purely as a tourist destination. All I asked was what have I missed.

TomasToocherl

2mo

Modern art museums, Macba, adjacent contemporary art museum. Picasso museum, adjacent but more commercial modern art gallery (sorry its name gone out of my head).

The Mediterranean. It's a good sea.

There's a lot of shit restaurants but some very nice ones too.

The cable car.

Big boats about. The maritime museum is good.

Lots of football not just B***a also Espanyol, Cornella and all the smaller clubs.

Endless beautiful women as well. They never stop.

cneuffer

2mo

When we visit, we spend 2-3 weeks. We chill, spend time at all the beaches. I enjoy watching the people, visiting day to day things, and having a very nice dinner once in a while. When I read history and wander the specific sites, I can imagine it because it's still very present even if a place was rebuilt or redesigned. I haven't been to the theater, but if/when I go, I'll just pick something I want to see. I like various sites, but I'll also pick up my phone and inquire about a street name or monument. I'm American, and as a culture, we tend to pack it all into one trip. Barcelona is a place you can just enjoy and save some for the next visit. Know thyself and do that. There's something for everyone. I hope it's more enjoyable for you the next time.

Mobile_Twist8670

2mo

I’m not native Catalan, but I discussed independence topic with many Catalans. Major (most major, not the only major) reason - because of taxes. Direct quote: “ for each 100 euro paid taxes that go to Madrid, Catalonia will have only 10 cents back. The rest 90 cents will go to lazy south spanish people from Malaga. “.

And I fully agree with them - catalans are very good-working people, goal oriented, etc. Why they should pay for lazy mañana-style southerns? With 90% of paid taxes?

KeyserBronson

2mo

The people you know are really stupid and not really representative of the opinion of Catalans here...

ImpossibleCrisp

2mo

This is a complete misrepresentation of the issue and offensive to both Catalans and Spaniards.

Mobile_Twist8670

2mo

As I said, it is just point of view of some people I know. I’m not Catalan or Spanish. If they said truth, I agree with them 100%. One case is to contribute for disabled people and senior citizens - this case is a good case and everyone should do that. Another case is to contribute for young health lazy southerners. And I’m strictly against it.

ImpossibleCrisp

2mo

There's no such thing as young health lazy southerners and the thing about taxes is not about "lazy people", but about corruption and making life harder for Catalan citizens (regardless of their origin, culture, whatever).

Mind you, I am Catalan and staunchly pro-Indy.

ImpossibleCrisp

2mo

So you came here for a weekend and you saw "a high level of autonomy" because you saw people were allowed to use Catalan. That's a very low bar mate. I understand where you're coming from, but having it worse (or even much worse) doesn't mean others do not deserve to improve their situation.

By the way, I am curious, did you get any trouble with your Kosovo passport at the border?

Ordinary_Pie7591

1mo

it's a shell of what it used to be pre 2016

I got harassed by a gang there that runs "combat sports"

It's also dirty and disorganised

You hit all of the landmarks, there's nothing to be impressed about.

Just go somewhere better, it won't be hard

Super-Menu-5908

1mo

OP has successfully riled everyone up.

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