AITA for not letting my daughter to go over to my SIL's house after her kids dumped my daughter's bindi bag.

Not the A-hole

Repost since I accidentally posted this on my main account and I'm pretty sure my SIL uses Reddit.

I (40f) am South Asian and my husband "Luke" (42m) and the rest of his family are white. We have a beautiful daughter, "Amara" (14f) who has decided to start wearing bindis in day-to-day life two months ago (Before anyone asks, no I didn't pressure her into this decision. This was all on her own and I don't even wear bindis daily). I helped her buy a bindi bag and Amara had carried it around with her whenever she'd be gone from home from more than a day ever since.

Last weekend, I let Amara go to my SIL "Bree" (45f)'s house. Bree has two kids, "Danielle" (15f) and "Chase" (13m). Saturday afternoon, Amara called me crying and told me that Danielle and Chase had been teasing her about the "dots" on her forehead since Friday.

That morning, Danielle and Chase had grabbed the bag out of her room and dumped it into the pool as a "prank". It sank to the bottom, and since Amara can't swim, she wasn't able to grab it.

Amara went to Bree and told her what happened, and Bree took Danielle and Chase's side, saying it was kids being kids and that they did Amara a favor with that prank.

I comforted my daughter over the phone, and went to go pick her up soon after Amara said she didn't want to be at Bree's house anymore.

Once I got there, I helped Amara put her bag into the trunk before going to Bree to confirm the story. Bree confirmed it, and doubled down on what she said hard.

I was irritated at that and soon left with Amara. When we got home, I told Luke what happened and he suggested not having Amara go over to Bree's house until Bree apologizes for saying that the kids did Amara a favor by throwing her bindi bag into the pool, and the kids apologize for the incident itself.

I agreed with that being a good idea, but checked to make sure Amara was okay with it first. Amara said that she doesn't even want to see her cousins or aunt now anyways, so I sent Bree a text explaining that Amara wouldn't be coming over under they all apologize.

I didn't get a response at first, but when I did, Bree was telling me that was unfair and that I was punishing her and her kids over a dumb prank. I just replied that I just want an apology for my daughter and that should be a simple request.

Bree didn't reply back, but my MIL ended up calling me and telling me that I was horrible for not letting Bree see her niece and that both Amara and I needed to get over the incident when I explained Amara doesn't want to be around Bree or her kids either.

Luke is on my side with this, but my MIL won't stop texting about how I need to just let this go and let bygones be bygones

Edit: I ended up editing this since I accidentally used my husband's real name a few times due to getting angry while writing this post.

in AmItheAssholeby throwrabindibag

9.7K

95%

6mo

Judgement_Bot_AITA

Beep Boop

6mo

Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our voting guide here, and remember to use only one judgement in your comment.

OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:

I could've pushed for an apology without having Amara not come over to my SIL's house anymore in order to try to get it.

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Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.

coastalkid92

11.5K

Craptain [170]

6mo

NTA.

First of all, since when was Bree and her children "owed" a relationship with your child. Right now, Amara doesn't want to see them because they have hurt her.

Secondly, kids will be kids extends to maybe doing something dumb when they're 5 and colour on the crisp, white wall. These are teenagers who are fully aware that they're making racially insensitive comments. Their auntie and cousin have south asian heritage and rather than be curious and celebrate the diversity in their extended family, they're calling it weird.

Third and finally, even if we take away the racial connotations of what they did (which is a big factor), they still ruined something of your daughter's and they're old enough to know better and should have to replace it and apologize.

I would divert MIL's attentions to your husband and let him handle his family. And in the meantime, keep supporting Amara for being proud of her heritage. Bindis are beautiful and if she is stoked to wear one daily, then let her light shine bright.

Celticlady47

6.0K

Partassipant [3]

6mo

I'd add a fourth: that Amara doesn't have to be the one to 'get over it,' since she didn't do anything wrong; wrong was done to her.

I can't stand it when the bullies & their supporters tell the person who was bullied that they need to be the bigger person & get over it. Why the hell can't the nasty bully get over themself & apologise for what they did?

LuxuryBell

1.7K

6mo

I like to avoid miminizing it by calling it what it is... Abuse and harassment, not bullying. Bullying isn't a game or a school thing, it's abuse.

Topperno

817

6mo

Bullying is the use of force, coercion, hurtful teasing or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. Often repeatedly.

Bullying as a term does not minimise what bullies do. It is abuse.

Sneaky_Satan

515

6mo

Though the CIA might prefer people refer to it as "enhanced teasing"

TheTARDISMatrix

192

Partassipant [1]

6mo

Oh my god you just made me snort Pepsi from my nose at that comment. My wife gave me the weirdest look XD

micaelar5

6mo

Did it burn? I've done that before and boy did it burn my nose

TheTARDISMatrix

Partassipant [1]

6mo

Hooooboy did it =_=;

justcelia13

Asshole Aficionado [18]

6mo

Enhanced snorting.

SnipesCC

Asshole Enthusiast [6]

6mo

pepsi boarding, the latest Doritos flavor.

Continue thread...

TheTARDISMatrix

Partassipant [1]

6mo

I am so glad I wasn't drinking when I read this!

Continue thread...

UCgirl

6mo

There’s the definition of bullying and then there’s the connotation of what bullying means. Bullying can mean calling someone a doo doo head every day to literally killing someone. But most people thing about the “lighter” end of the scale.

People tend to think of abuse as being more harsh.

Mantisfactory

Partassipant [1]

6mo

I'm a very real and technical sense, it has to be repeated to be bullying. It's a well defined term. Bullying describes a pattern of behavior rather than incidental behavior. It is an ongoing thing. Calling one abusive act bullying is similar to calling one lie gaslighting. It subverts the purpose of the more specific label, which is to describe a pattern or campaign of behavior.

Individual instances in an ongoing campaign of bullying are instances of abuse and manifestations of the ongoing bullying. But bullying refers to the pattern of behavior, rather than the specific incidents. These kids abused their cousin, on a xenophobic and/or racist basis. It remains to be seen if it becomes a pattern, becomes bullying.

ETA: In a very direct sense, calling it abuse is less severe because abuse can be incidental, one-off, but calling it bullying suggests a pattern of abusive behavior. It suggests multiple instances of abuse. So if anything, calling what is actually bullying "abuse" is more minimizing than the inverse. Calling what is actually an isolated instance of abusive behavior "bullying" is suggesting the problem is bigger than it necessarily is.

Interesting-Fish6065

543

6mo

Racist harassment at that. Oh, and subjecting your own first cousin to racist bullying, harassment, and vandalism is framed as doing her some kind of favor, because, presumably, if your cousin has the “misfortune” of being from a mixed background, she should be downplaying that as much as possible, not making it more “obvious” by adopting a visual symbol of her own mother’s culture.

These people aren’t just gross, they sound scary. Like is it really such a huge leap between this behavior and putting a brick through a storefront because of the proprietor’s racial or ethnic origins?

SeaworthinessNo1304

306

6mo

I'd make watching/reading the movie and book "Rabbit-Proof Fence" a requirement before talking to aunt and cousins again. There's a horrible history in Australia (and India, and Canada and a bunch of other places) of the colonial government stealing mixed-race children to force them to reject their indigenous heritage and become totally culturally white. The cousins and aunt think, "ha ha, this symbol of your culture is weird and dumb so you should just throw it away and be like us!," is a harmless way to think. And maybe if it just stopped there, it mostly would be. But unchecked and taken to its logical conclusion, that thinking has absolutely, demonstrably led to the kidnapping, torture and killing of thousands of children. It's destroyed families and caused decades of escalating intergenerational trauma.

The boy who is praised for "helping" his cousin by stealing and destroying the items she uses to celebrate her culture, grows up to be the man who can be convinced to beat a child for speaking their mother tongue. Because as his mother said, it's for their own good. He's helping them!

Indigojoyglow

6mo

Excellent response. Saw that movie. I’m still mad. Trying to mentally change Amara means FA if her skin tone is not light.

Original_Impression2

6mo

It wasn't just mixed race children. It was indigenous children, period.

SeaworthinessNo1304

6mo

Absolutely, you are correct. I specifically mentioned mixed-race children in this context both because OP's daughter is, and Rabbit-Proof Fence deals specifically with the experience of half-Aboriginal kids in Australia. That was who the colonial government there focused a lot of their assimilation efforts on.

miriboheme

105

6mo

"vandalism is framed as doing her some kind of favor, because, presumably, if your cousin has the “misfortune” of being from a mixed background"

well said.

Wooster182

Asshole Aficionado [16]

6mo

In their eyes, they are doing her a favor by forcing her to assimilate into whiteness.

BellPsychological447

114

6mo

The call to get over it is only even possibly appropriate after the bully has sincerely apologized and made reparations. All while being very sincere. If, after that, the victim is holding a grudge past what is reasonable, then maybe, MAYBE someone should talk to them about getting over it. But this situation is not even close to that point.

MagnusStormraven

6mo

And to be brutally honest, if supposed "family members" have proven themselves willing to commit what is effectively a hate crime against a blood relative, no amount of apology may be sufficient to make things right, nor would forgiveness be deserved for it.

juliet0000000

839

6mo

Fifth, teach the girl to swim already!

enonymousCanadian

634

Partassipant [4]

6mo

I wholeheartedly agree. She should not stay over our place with a swimming pool when she is unable to swim. Especially with those kids. The next racist prank could be fatal.

Tulipsarered

193

6mo

Really, most people living on a planet that has a majority of its surface covered in water should learn to swim.

Murderhornet212

158

Partassipant [1]

6mo

Yup. I’m now terrified that those little jerks are going to push her in.

BeachRaised

6mo

I totally concur.

mama_bear_740

6mo

Is there any possibility that she could take boxing lessons in addition to the swimming? With family like these assholes who needs enemies?? I’d sleep better knowing she could swim AND defend herself.

lovemykitchen

6mo

“Want it, get it” and their nasty mother will blame the lack of swimming ability.

SnipesCC

Asshole Enthusiast [6]

6mo

It's also possible that she can swim some, but that's different from being able to go to the bottom of a pool and pick up small objects, especially in the deep end.

Expert_Slip7543

6mo

Jumping in & dropping straight to the bottom to pick up an object, and back up, is the easy part. What's hard is staying afloat for an extended time, or making good progress propelling herself across a pool. So if she can swim at "some" she can retrieve her bindi bag.

coastalkid92

287

Craptain [170]

6mo

Swimming is safety. Everyone should know how to swim.

naranghim

142

Asshole Aficionado [13]

6mo

I agree that swimming is a necessary skill, but I can provide you with a whole list of rebuttals that I have heard from people when I tell them they should learn how to swim, and I worked as a Lifeguard/Swimming instructor in university. The gems are:

My kid can still drown, you told me you can't drown proof them! I don't care if it would take "extraordinary circumstances" for them to drown after they learn to swim! If they can still drown what's the point!
There's no money in swimming! The only college scholarships are for football, soccer, baseball or basketball! (That doesn't change the fact that your football player son is in summer gym, and they come to the pool for some of their classes. Your dumbass son, who knows he can't swim, volunteers to be a part of the team for the bellyflop contest. If the guard currently on duty is easily intimidated because they are the same age that means I am one of the ones dealing with your panicking linebacker son in the diving well. If I'm on duty, I'm public enemy number 1 because I'm older than all the high school kids and they can't intimidate me into letting him participate with threats of making my life hell at school because I'm in university. They were shocked when I started cracking up laughing with those threats and informed them, I'd graduated high school two years ago).
We don't live near an open body of water; we don't need to know how to swim! (thinks about the large lakes and river in our area and shakes my damn head).
Lifeguards are RACIST. There aren't any black lifeguards! I only want my kids learning from a black lifeguard because you know a white lifeguard is just going to let my kid drown! (You are part of the problem. If you don't teach your kids how to swim, don't encourage their swimming then they can't be a lifeguard because they have to know how to swim and swim well.
I'm going to ignore that last part you AH.).

These were what I heard firsthand twenty years ago. Some of the guards that I mentor now, still hear them. First, we have the uphill battle of changing people's attitudes towards swimming. My area provides either free lunch or breakfast to kids in swimming lessons plus the lessons are free. We still have parents refusing.

Tagging u/Tulipsarered, u/CreatrixAnima, u/Shoddy-Ad8066

Lunifur

6mo

I wonder how many of those parents didn't know how to swim, and were just making excuses so they weren't embarrassed when their kids learned to swim and wanted them to get in the pool with them.

Global-Bird8226

6mo

My kids were avid swimmers. Little fish. I’ll probably drown drinking water. I still can’t swim and married an Army swim instructor.

meetmypuka

Partassipant [4]

6mo

Ridiculous! Their kids could still die using a seatbelt or a bike helmet, too! I can't imagine dealing with those people!

lunchbox3

126

6mo

Same!!! Obviously NTA but that line stressed me out so much. Especially if they live somewhere where it’s common to have backyard pools (which it seems to be if her cousins have one).

bbrekke

6mo

And when her cousins are racist jerks. Who knows what "prank" they'll pull on her next.

Shoddy-Ad8066

103

6mo

Swimming is a life safety skill.

[deleted]

6mo

Seriously. How is this kid FOURTEEN and unable to swim?

fuckyourcanoes

115

6mo

Lots of people have no access to public pools or water and can't afford private access. LOTS. Especially in inner cities. Most schools don't have pools either. And lessons cost, too, if the parents can't teach their kids.

GothicGingerbread

Partassipant [3]

6mo

OP's child, however, has clearly had regular access to at least one private pool.

Ideally, everyone should learn how to swim, but at a bare minimum, anyone who is going to be spending time around bodies of water – whether it's a small fountain in the yard, kiddie pool, swimming pool, pond, lake, stream, river, or ocean – should learn how to swim. It is incredibly easy to drown, and it only requires a couple of inches of water and a brief moment in time.

Lindsey7618

6mo

This doesn't mean that OP has access to a pool though. Just because her SIL has one, it doesn't mean she let's OP use it or would let her teach her daughter how to swim in it.

savvyliterate

Partassipant [2]

6mo

Given the attitude of this aunt, want to bet she doesn't want her niece "sullying" the pool by learning to swim in it?

_green-queen_

6mo

Just adding a bit to this, my ex is almost 30 and doesn't know how to swim. Many people I meet where I moved to (that has more water than where I'm from originally) don't know how to swim, even as adults. I was taught pretty young, and thought everyone knew how to cause of safety. Boy howdy was I wrong

FieryDee

6mo

I didn't learn to swim until I was 23 or 24. One of the best decisions I made, I swim all the time now.

snowship

6mo

I was taught super young too. Grew up in a town with a public pool, the Mississippi a few miles away, creeks and tributaries all over the place and tons of ponds and lakes. It was weird if you didn't know how to swim. Now I live in a city in a nearby area and I have to pay for expensive lessons for my little kids to learn swimming. All the pools are private or members only and they have extremely limited swim lesson openings. I drive my kids 30 miles across the city to a swimming school. I can absolutely understand if people around me now don't know how to swim. They make access to resources exceedingly difficult.

InterestSufficient73

6mo

I didn't learn to swim till I was 60. It happens.

BellPsychological447

6mo

Yes. If the bullies decide to shove her in the pool as their next prank, she could drown.

WednesdayBryan

6mo

I came here to say this. You and your daughter have done nothing wrong in this situation. However, swimming is a skill everyone should have. Get that girl in the water.

CreatrixAnima

Asshole Enthusiast [6]

6mo

Yeah, this is actually really really important.

Nexyna

349

6mo

To add a fifth, a prank is supposed to be funny to all parties involved--not just mean. The kids weren't pranking her. They were being mean and knew it.

bbrekke

231

6mo

And, judging by the SILs response, that "meanness" (i.e. racism) was learned from her.

jahubb062

148

6mo

And sixth, add MIL to the list of people who should be on a timeout until they apologize. MIL is inserting herself into something that had nothing to do with her. She’s taking SIL and SIL’s kids’ side, when Amara is the one who was wronged. SIL and her spawn were/are racist assholes. And MIL is insisting they should be given more chances to abuse Amara, when Amara wisely wants nothing to do with them.

If MIL thinks SIL’s family’s behavior is ok, MIL is not a safe person for OP or Amara.

CZall23

6mo

Yeah, how was that even a prank?

ColumnK

Partassipant [4]

6mo

Wonder if she'd have the same feeling if it was something of hers that was destroyed? (I'm guessing not)

[deleted]

6mo

💯

WorkingInterview1942

6mo

The victim is not the one who has to "get over" the incident. Her things were taken and put somewhere she was unable to retrieve them. Then when she complained about people who should know better, she was met with more ignorance and racism.

Thank your MIL for protecting her racist daughter and let them know that no one is owed a relationship with your child.

Cultural-Slice3925

6mo

What is so fucking difficult about apologizing when you’ve done something shitty?! It should be automatic.

sillyboy544

6mo

Ding, ding,ding! Correct answer.

Illustrious-Olive-98

6mo

I just said the same thing, it's bonkers! I wonder what it's like to not experience empathy?

Aggressive-Potato623

382

6mo

You should absolutely let Luke handle his family. My rule for family issues has always been that I will deal with mine and my husband should deal with his! Luke has a different relationship with his mother than you do. She’s mostly not going to stop loving her son, but you don’t need that friction in an already complicated relationship. I also love that you and your husband are letting Amara express her individuality and culture! I personally think Bindis are beautiful!! NTA

DawaLhamo

6mo

Agreed, Luke needs to step in and deal with his mother so she'll stop harassing you. That is unacceptable. You are definitely NTA - Bree and her offspring are.

ALostAmphibian

371

6mo

Bree said her kids “did Amara a favor with that prank?” Gross. That is everything we need to know about why her children are ignorant bullies.

HamburgerManKnows

6mo

Yea an apology is not enough, it’s obviously a whole mindset Bree has and has passed on to her children. I wouldn’t go back with or without an apology

jilliecatt

223

6mo

Jumping on the top comment here to add one thing I didn't see in the responses. (Number one, this comment and the responses are 100% spot on).

But to add on, please let your daughter know that she is under no obligation to see her aunt or cousins again until she is comfortable with it. That means, even if they do apologize, that doesn't have to fix everything. That she doesn't have to accept an apology and go right back to seeing them. She's allowed to continue to be hurt, and continue to not see them. It's important she knows she has you and your husband's support in that.

I know at her age, I always thought if someone apologized to me, I had to accept the apology and change my behavior (make friends again, start seeing people again, whatever "punishment" I was dealing out had to be immediately reversed in response to the apology.) It taught people they could hurt me and just had to give me a fake apology and they could continue their behavior toward me without any consequences for their actions. More importantly, it taught me that I had to accept continued abuse if someone said they were "sorry". It took a long time for me to recognize this and I still am not completely stable with the way to react.

Mamellama

6mo

An apology is a promise from the one who did harm that they acknowledge and will correct their harmful behavior.

Didn't learn that until my 30's, and I didn't fully understand it until my early 40's. Sounds like we can relate.

I fully agree with you that someone taking their own wrongdoing seriously, holding themselves accountable, taking clear steps to correct their behavior, and making an apology does not un-happen the hurt caused. It doesn't erase what happened or obligate the person harmed to pretend it's "okay."

"It's okay" is (to me) the most insidious response to an apology - it sounds to an abuser like permission, for one thing, and for people who've been hurt, it compounds the hurt by letting the offender off a hook they don't even care about.

Last piece of my rant (probably):

Forgiveness is an entirely separate process from Apologizing, and one doesn't require the other. Forgiveness is letting go of the anger and hurt we have toward the person. It's like neutralizing them, which is good for us, bc they don't care if we hate them or stay mad - more likely, they enjoy knowing they have that power over us. So "letting it go" isn't about condoning the bad behavior, it's about freeing ourselves from that person's influence while accepting that person is unsafe to be around. The wrong thing will never become okay - there is no apology, however sincere, on this earth that will make tossing Amara's bindi bag in the pool okay, likewise Bree's response, likewise MIL's response - absolutely nothing will ever make their previous behavior okay, and as as long as they point at Amara and her parents being upset about their terrible behavior as the problem, there's just no moving forward with them. And it's their loss 🧡

sfekty

6mo

I also have to wonder why Bree and her children want Amara to be at their house? Do they enjoy bullying her that much?

Demanda_22

6mo

There’s every possibility that they actually do enjoy Amara’s company and everyone gets along most of the time, because Amara isn’t “offending” them by being different. Racism isn’t always just blind hatred of someone of another race, it’s often insidious and can come from people who truly believe they love and care about the other person. They may actually believe they’re “doing her a favor” by forcing her to assimilate to their cultural norms.

To people who see it for what it is, it’s disgusting and there’s nothing resembling love there. Unfortunately racists don’t typically see themselves as “bad people” so they think they can’t be racist.

0biterdicta

Judge, Jury, and Excretioner [353]

6mo

Not just "racially insensitive", their comments are straight up racist. They think they are doing her a favour.

numbersthen0987431

6mo

Also, how was the abuse (sorry, prank) supposed to be a favor?? What lesson was everyone trying to teach her??

The only lesson I see is: cousin and aunt are racist, and to avoid them at all cost

DarKnightXI

6mo

Brilliant response... mine was going to be much harsher and a lot more colourful... thanks for saving me, your spot it's completely racist! I live in the UK and as much as we celebrate our multiculturalism it's all good as long as its 'British' and everyone's towing the line... step out and be Asian or African and you get the side looks and tutts... that's not all obviously but even the most inclusive don't always realise their sometimes using Racial language or connotation without meaning to be racist... NTA

Phoenix_rise-

6mo

Exactly. If she tossed their family Bible, the girls journals or diary, phone - they wouldn't see that as a prank or something helpful. What they did was hurtful and mean, not a prank.

Square_Activity8318

6mo

Yeah, and the cousins didn't get that racist attitude out of nowhere. Bree and MIL's responses say it all. Racism is taught!

This whole thing had me yelling, "Oh, hell no!" the entire time. OP, your in-laws can stew in their racist crap until they see the error of their ways, apologize, and make amends.

I also have to wonder what they think of your husband and you being in an interracial/intercultural marriage if they're enabling her cousins to be so shitty. Maybe it's just me, but I'd be questioning the in-laws at a much deeper level than just over the bindi bag and how your daughter got treated.

NTA

bbrekke

6mo

This poor girl is trying to learn about and embrace her own roots, and these jerks are trying to make her feel bad about it. That is not a prank. That's blatant racism (from "family"!). Full stop.

Salamanderonthefarm

6mo

All of this, and in addition MIL should be focusing her texting attention on her daughter & granddaughters who appear to believe that racially based bullying is acceptable. MIL’s motives are extremely suspicious by association. She owes her grand-daughter Amara her love and support.

wy100101

Partassipant [1]

6mo

SIL sounds racist. I probably wouldn't even accept an apology if someone did that to my girls. NTA OP don't back down.

Moderator removed comment

6mo

etds3

Colo-rectal Surgeon [36]

6mo

I highly doubt they realize they’re being racist, especially because they’re clearly getting this from their mom. Realizing that calling other cultures weird is racist and that your own parents’ teachings are racist are pretty advanced thinking skills. Some 15 years olds can probably figure that out, but not all, and I think very few 13 year olds could.

But you’re right: they absolutely realize they ruined something of someone else’s and that’s mean. Also, even if your kids don’t realize they’re being mean, what do you do? You say, “That was mean. How would you feel if someone destroyed your stuff? Go apologize.” You don’t say, “It was a dumb prank: get over it.” Even if I had a 3 year old who threw their cousin’s stuff in the pool just because water is a never ending entertainment to toddlers, I would have them apologize.

Recent_Data_305

6mo

Agree 100%. I’d be wary of letting the niece be alone with MIL. She is choosing sides - and the racist one at that.

DragonflyOk9277

4.1K

Colo-rectal Surgeon [35]

6mo

NTA, good for sticking up for your kid. Your MIL is enabling racist bullying.

On a different note, it would be good to teach Amara to swim. It's a good life skill to have.

frangelica7

1.6K

6mo

Yes, it’s a side note, but get that 14 year old some swimming lessons.

False-Importance-741

233

6mo

This! 🤞

Seriously, Racist MiL supports Racist Daughter & Racist Grandchildren over her bi racial grandchild is not a good look.

Give it over to hubby to deal with and let MiL know OP will not be discussing this with her further. Would be the call, Let hubby deal with Racist Family. And make no mistake this is completely a racial matter. It was culturally insensitive.

NTA - but teach that kid to swim.

ih8pickles7824

713

6mo

Yes PLEASE. I used to teach swim lessons, it’s never too late to start! Some clients were older than OP, we were just happy they were finally learning

nerdlydevon

136

6mo

Agreed!!! I taught a ton of adults who didn’t have access to lessons when they were growing up for one reason or another. They all seemed slightly regretful it had taken so long to learn tbh.

localherofan

Partassipant [1]

6mo

My grandmother learned to swim at 75, when she moved to a warmer climate and there were a lot of pools around. She discovered that she loved to swim.

LiminalLost

6mo

As a former swin teacher, I once taught a whole family. The kids were 6 & 12 and got to competitive swim team level of skill. Mom was 45, and managed to learn all four competitive strokes. Grandma was 80, and learned how to float/kick across a pool on her back. Never ever too late!!!

Historical_Bunch_927

6mo

I'm an adult who feels the same way. But when I look for lessons they all seemed to be for kids. Any tips on looking for something an adult can go to?

nerdlydevon

6mo

I taught adults primarily in a private lesson setting, but I know that some community colleges in the US, the YMCA/YWCA has programs for adult learners at some facilities, and the American Red Cross has programs you can search on their website to see if there’s stuff nearby!

ETA - it’s never too late to learn! Good for you!!

madashelltoday

250

Partassipant [2]

6mo

A good life skill that can save their life.

Covert_Pudding

142

6mo

Yes, this could have ended very badly if the cousins had pushed Amara herself into the pool or if she'd attempted to rescue her bag anyway.

yildizli_gece

236

6mo

Honestly; my brain was like, “yeah, yeah, NTA but let’s get back to this: your daughter is 14 and can’t swim???" (lol)

Like, you may be an AH for not ensuring your teenager can handle herself in water, especially since she apparently visits a house with a pool!

axewieldinghen

157

Partassipant [1]

6mo

Affordable swimming lessons and safe access to a pool aren't a given in every community. I completely agree that Amara should learn to swim but let's not shame the parents for something that might not be within their control.

Altruistic-Narwhal

105

6mo

Agree in general, but they had family with a pool, where she regularly spent time. That's opportunity and motive to learn to swim right there.

Lindsey7618

6mo

That doesn't mean Luke's family was okay with Amara using the pool to learn though. Especially considering they are racist. OP may not have always lived in the area, and husband's family may not have always had that pool.

[deleted]

6mo

Pretty sure this story all by itself establishes they have access to a pool.

Wandering_aimlessly9

Professor Emeritass [73]

6mo

Does it? Maybe the sil just moved there. I mean my kids have a pool in the back yard and the 6 yo doesn’t know how to swim yet. I’m sure you’d call me every name you could think of telling me how I’m a bad parent. BUT…the movers are literally moving boxes in as we speak and where we used to live had limited access to a pool since covid. We would have had to drop about 1k for swim lessons this summer to get her proficient before the move. So…I get to teach her after the move.

yildizli_gece

6mo

safe access to a pool aren't a given

Except, of course, when OP tells you they literally have access to a pool at a relative's house.

But let's say she hasn't always--at this point she is old enough to be near a pool on her own; she should know what to do if she falls in and it sounds like she'd just be fucked in what's probably a 3-6' deep pool in a yard. And I'm sorry but that's ridiculous, and maybe her parents should be shamed into teaching their kid how to survive that.

Lindsey7618

6mo

Also, where does it say or imply OP hasn't taught Amara what to do if she falls in? And if the pool is shorter than her, all she has to do is stand up.

You have no idea where OP is at financially and why she wasn't able to teach her daughter to swim OR of Amara has a physical disability preventing it.

My dad was the only driver in my family. My mom had absolutely no way to get me to a pool to learn. We were also very poor, and paying for lessons was not an option at the time. Now that I'm an adult, my boyfriend tried teaching me.

sandpiperinthesnow

6mo

Swimming lessons? Pool? Okay maybe. Summer. Any lake and dad, mom, or friend could teach the girl. Not being able to swim is crazy dangerous. Yeah, her family sucks over the bindi bag but the parents really need to focus on getting the girl safe water skills provided that there isn't a physical problem that prevents this.

Lowbacca1977

6mo

I think you're greatly overstating the availability of open lakes.

SnipesCC

Asshole Enthusiast [6]

6mo

That also is really not the safest place to learn. The water is often murky and you can't see the bottom. And accidentally swollowing chlorinated pool water isn't great, but better than pond water.

DeluxeHubris

6mo

Lots of parents simply don't have the time, energy, or ability to take their children to places like lakes or rivers. Especially if they were never taken or learned to swim themselves.

LuxuryBell

115

6mo

Racist harassment and abuse. Don't call it bullying. It was totally racist and I wouldn't want to be around abusive, racist asshole who don't respect me either. Good for Amara standing up for herself too.

sanglar03

6mo

Isn't bullying a generic word ? You can bully a teen because he's fat (fatphobic), gay (homophobic), black (racist), ...

Still bullying and abuse.

SelfServeSporstwash

6mo

yeah, I'm with you on this one. The word bullying implies either verbal, physical, or emotional abuse already. It just informs the power dynamics and pattern of said abuse. "abuse" isn't a more descriptive word here, or even a more applicable one. Bullying is abuse.

Valski44

6mo

Agreed. I hated swim lessons as a kid, but now at 44 I am so grateful my parents pushed me all the way through to the advanced classes. Sitting alone on a kayak in the middle of a lake this fall and not being worried at all about my safety was 100% worth it! I also fell off the dock when I was 12 when no one was around and the only negative result was the embarrassment of walking back into the cabin soaking wet and telling everyone what happened 😂

Boeing367-80

Partassipant [4]

6mo

"MIL, until there's an apology, it's not a bygone."

rationalstudent

6mo

Yes! Please help teach her to swim, maybe finding safe classes. It would really help with safety. (Also your actions are are definitely NTA.)

Admirable-Marsupial6

Asshole Aficionado [11]

6mo

Bindis get spoilt when wet anyways so her knowing swimming isn’t really relevant here but yeah she should learn

nyeve37

1.4K

6mo

NTA

But OP you might want to edit the second half of your post, since I think you used your husband’s real name and not “Luke”.

throwrabindibag

908

6mo

Ah, I got worked up while writing this. I'll go edit it, thank you for telling me.

AlexisDanaan

519

Partassipant [1]

6mo

Also if your SIL uses Reddit and reads this subreddit she’s gonna know you’re talking about her, it’s a specific story. Not saying you’re wrong to seek public opinion, not at all, but prepare yourself for blowback on it. Keep your head high. NTA. Protect your daughter!

[deleted]

673

6mo

Maybe SIL will read the comments and realize everyone else thinks she sucks

ohsayaa

312

6mo

Yeah and then will probably retaliate at the op. A woman who has racist and/or bullies for children, a woman who definitely is a racist bully (the did Amara a favour comment), a woman who denies a child's autonomy (insisting Amara visit her when the kid doesn't want to) is not someone who will see other people's judgement on her behavior and rectify it.

WhoKnows1973

6mo

In laws are a bunch of ignorant obnoxious immature racists. They have no respect for either of you and make sure that you know it.

Just because they are your husband's relatives does not mean that they have ANY place in your and your daughters lives.

You both deserve to be treated with respect from all-MIL, SIL, kids. Do not subject yourselves to their toxicity and disrespect. You both deserve to be treated so much better. They have no place in your lives.

If husband doesn't feel the same then you have a bigger problem.

[deleted]

6mo

Exactly. She’s probably like another racist I know. She’ll claim she can’t be a racist because her white daughter has children with a black man. She will deliberately have them play in front of the house with her, when she typically never spends time in the front yard, or she’ll take them to Walmart when she knows a “friend” will be there. Just to “prove” she’s not a racist. When the entire world knows she is.

Your SiL probably wants to have a close connection with your daughter so she can be seen as “not a racist” because I spent time with my ethnic niece, so come on, how can I be racist. But obviously her bully kids learn it from the source.

KingMichaelsConsort

6mo

The worst and often most deeply rooted racism comes from these women.

DetailEducational917

6mo

Not only does she suck as a person but she is racist and sucks as an aunt and mother. She's also a horrible bully.

AlexisDanaan

Partassipant [1]

6mo

One can only hope.

AlmondCigar

6mo

Yeah, I know, and those children are gonna grow up even worse as she did obviously learning from her mother

zixy37

6mo

That’s what I was thinking. So rarely do people on the internet agree, and what she did has brought a small piece of harmony to the web. And it is definitely NOT in her favor (the SIL).

boatsmoatsfloats

6mo

It was probably more of an attempt to hide her main profile from SIL who could use this story to figure it out than to hide the story itself.

donkeyvoteadick

Partassipant [1]

6mo

I always thought the pseudonym was to protect people from their acquaintances not the people in the post. Most of the posts are pretty specific.

But with changed names their mutual friend Bob won't realise it's them if Bob isn't aware of the conflict.

Hopefully SIL and MIL aren't on Reddit though lol

TriceratopBae

6mo

I've always assumed that really specific stories like this on throwaways weren't to avoid being caught, but to avoid them knowing your actual reddit account.

nyeve37

6mo

No problem! I think you missed one though, in the paragraph that starts with “I was irritated at that”.

[deleted]

6mo

The bot will still have the original name written in comments. See if you can delete that.

Maria_Dragon

6mo

Just so you know, there is a bot that posts the original when you make edits. So people can still figure out your husband's name.

Ace_boy08

1.3K

6mo

NTA Luke needs to handle his mother and sister. That's his side of the family. He needs to handle the racists. This would be my hill to die on.

Also, your daughter is 15, and she needs to learn how to swim. Where im from, every child is taught to swim from a young age. It's an important life skill to have if you have access to this.

superrm81

295

Asshole Aficionado [12]

6mo

Couldn’t agree more, it jumped out to me that a 14 year old couldn’t swim, please OP get her in lessons.

NTA, time to get your husband in to deal with his family.

DetailEducational917

122

6mo

I wouldn't put it past the viscous aunt and cousins to push the girl in as a "prank".

prosperosniece

6mo

Agreed. OP is NTA, but swimming is an important life skill and she needs to get her daughter lessons.

kecker

6mo

I agree this is probably a side-issue, but seriously swimming is a critical life skill. There are not many areas of the world where she won't be around water. I realize I'm looking at this through my own personal lense since I can't walk 15 minutes in any direction without hitting water, so the ability to swim is literally a life-saving skill to have.

catymogo

6mo

Right- people here get their kids in swimming lessons before they can walk. The thought of a teenager not being able to swim is chaos.

MangoSaintJuice

616

Asshole Enthusiast [7]

6mo

NTA your SIL gave her kids a pass for stealing and damaging property make sure your MIL knows that and give them all (MIL, SIL and her kids) consequences if they don't apologize like visiting them or inviting them to your place. Kudos to you and your husband for sticking up to your kid.

Effective-Science463

256

6mo

Yeah, why would she WANT to go over to the house where people are mean to her? I sure as hell wouldn't.

BadKittyVortex

135

6mo

Exactly. And why would the aunt be so worried about missing out on time with her niece? Her behavior certainly makes it seem like she doesn't like the girl very much. If my aunt acted that way to me, I would assume she hated me.

Stormy261

6mo

I think it's less about actually wanting to spend time with her and more about being told she can't spend time with her. More of a how dare OP tell me what I can/can't do.

Alternative_Year_340

Colo-rectal Surgeon [41]

6mo

Racism. You forgot the pass for racism

[deleted]

474

6mo

NTA. A prank would be hiding the bag for few minutes, then saying ‘haha I have it here!’ And giving it back.

Anything that causes the person being ‘pranked’ harm or to not be whole/missing items is not a prank. It’s cruel. Since when did saying ‘it’s a prank’ absolve everyone of doing shitty things?

hedoesntgetme

166

6mo

So would SIL consider it to be a prank to put the contents of the SILs house in the pool?

Funny-Information159

Partassipant [3]

6mo

Or even just her bag (purse)?

fractal_frog

Partassipant [1]

6mo

Or Danielle's makeup bag?

AllAFantasy30

6mo

Even that prank wouldn’t be okay because it would be part of their racist bullying

[deleted]

6mo

I suppose not if we are talking about racism. I was just talking about in terms of what is a prank. You could replace hiding the bag with hiding anything really, a few minutes hiding something vs throwing it out - one is a prank the other isn’t.

roehnin

6mo

Pranks are only funny when the victim laughs.

Your suggestion isn't a prank either, it's racist bullying.

"Pranking" a religiously significant object and describing disposing of it as "a favour" is racist af.

InfernalCatfish

6mo

Since the internet, unfortunately. Look at all the prank videos.

Manyshadesofgrey2023

401

Partassipant [2]

6mo

NTA. Bree is raising her kids to be bullies and racist. Good riddance.

BbyChantel

6mo

Yep this is 100% the answer OP^ NTA

Green_Tension_6640

265

6mo

Everyone else has said the other important stuff, but I am concerned your daughter can't swim. That is an important life skill.

Marshmallows-

6mo

This was my thought too! OP is obviously NTA for agreeing to her daughters wishes and pranks are rarely funny but always cruel (on the rare occassions they are funny its normally because the person being pranked is aware of and okay with the cruelness).

But it's pretty important to be able to swim, firstly because its a life saving skill and secondly because its a fantastic hobby if you enjoy it. Nothing gets you out your own head like bobbing about for an hour.

cheerful_cynic

6mo

There's a difference between being able to stay at the surface via paddling, & being able to dive to the bottom of a pool to retrieve something that's not supposed to be in there

Delphin_1

6mo

But she said, her daughter cant swim not that she cant dive. Swimming is really important. edit: grammar

SabrinaBrna

6mo

She’s letting her daughter (or was letting) go and hang out at a place with a pool. The kid needs to know how to swim. Otherwise she shouldn’t be around a pool.

Thanatofobia

222

Asshole Enthusiast [5]

6mo

NTA

Tbf i had to look up "bindi", but based on what i read, they where mocking her heritage in a vile and downright racist manner.

They owe you a massive apology and MIL needs to realize just how vile and humiliating it was.

Maria_Dragon

107

6mo

This comment right here is the difference between racism and ignorance. No shame in ignorance, as long as it isn't willful ignorance. Racism is unacceptable. You didn't know something; you looked it up.

imtoughwater

6mo

Plus the commenter’s underlying respect for people’s humanity even if they don’t fully understand a specific cultural practice/symbol.

User deleted comment

6mo

Mean_Pomegranate_485

176

Partassipant [4]

6mo

NTA the girls' behaviour was horrible, and similarly the one of your SIL and MIL.

However I have a question - who is xxxx?

throwrabindibag

134

6mo

I got angry while writing this post and accidentally used my husband's real name

Mean_Pomegranate_485

Partassipant [4]

6mo

Oops - you'd better edit it! You are understandably upset, I would be too

AStaryuValley

6mo

You should edit your comment too so it doesn't have it anymore

Ill-Inspector7980

6mo

Dude I’m an Indian woman. What’s a bindi bag? A bag?

truffanis_6367

6mo

My North Indian mom in law gave me one when I got married - it’s a soft box-shaped container made of fabric, with a zippered closure for the top. It is inset with multiple leaves of plastic sleeves to hold the bindi packs. It’s very cool and makes finding the right one easy. I had never seen one before in my life - I grew up in Mumbai with South Indian family. So I chalked this one up to being a North Indian thing :) along all the other differences I encountered 😀

Meghanshadow

Colo-rectal Surgeon [41]

6mo

bindi bag?

Oh thank goodness. I’m glad I’m not the only confused person. I’ve been googling but didn’t want to ask in case it was rude. I was trying to figure out what bags had to do with bindis and google just has etsy purse makers and other bags/totes come up in addition to bindi stickers.

yavanna12

Partassipant [2]

6mo

Since Bindi is the dot on the for head. I imagine the bag contains her beads, paint and glue

[deleted]

6mo

I was wondering the same thing, but I could see it either being a special bag they got for carrying just those OR the whole post is about something else but they changed the item(s) to bindis and bindi bag to make the story less identifiable.

Mini-but-mighty

6mo

I’m glad someone else was wondering this! I googled it and couldn’t find any answers except a brand called bindi, a little draw string pouch to carry bindis and a bag decorated with them.

I hope OP sees this and replies telling us, I’m intrigued now!…

Kangaroo-Pack-3727

Asshole Enthusiast [6]

6mo

OP you are NTA. Continue to protect your child. What your SIL's kids did is bullying and they are very likely have done the same to other kids in their school

What the kids did is NOT a prank but a mean-spirited thing to do against another person. Amara has the right to not associate with her cousins until they both apologise and be better towards her

spindacinda

165

Certified Proctologist [23]

6mo

NTA. Your SIL is a bigot, raising her kids to be bigots. Your MIL either agrees with the bigotry or enables it. Your daughters mental and emotional well-being is more important than the feelings of those bullies. Stay strong. She is learning how to stand up for herself from you. If you waffle now, she may spend her life feeling shamed or othered for her beautiful heritage.

Edit:grammar, punctuation

[deleted]

134

6mo

NTA

Whoa, your SIL is a real piece of…work. Her kids, too. Excuse me, they did her a FAVOR by destroying property that was important to her, making fun of her, and being little racists? Sure…

Good for you and your husband. I don’t blame Amara one bit, I would not be associating with these people anymore if I were her.

Successful_Bath1200

111

Craptain [163]

6mo

NTA

You need to tell MIL straight to keep her beak out of this. This is nothing to do with her.

You are right to insist that SIL and her brats apologise. Not that it will make any difference as Amara has already decided she will not be going back.

bogo0814

106

Asshole Enthusiast [5]

6mo

NTA.

“I’m not going to subject my daughter to blatant racism & harassment, family or not.”

procrastinationprogr

Partassipant [1]

6mo

NTA. But please make sure your daughter learns how to swim.

[deleted]

6mo

NTA, you’re a good mom for standing by your daughter. Good on your husband for sticking to your side as well. Bree and MIL are both childish and disrespectful.

Effective-Science463

6mo

I think husband is a slight ah honestly. He needs to be more active, "mom, sis? Cut it out. do not contact my wife or child or myself until you are ready to apologize and agree to be adults."

coastalkid92

Craptain [170]

6mo

TBH, we don't know how involved husband is in this situation in telling them to cut it out. There's no guarantee that MIL and SIL care about his opinion any more than OP's.

ParsimoniousSalad

His Holiness the Poop [1128]

6mo

NTA and your MIL now also owes an apology.

And until Bree recognizes that what she and her children did was offensive and takes responsibility for it with a real apology, you need to keep that distance. I mean, just wow - her kids bully your child and destroy some of her property and she thinks that's fine because she needs to act more "white" anyway? WTF man.

wewillfuckyouup

6mo

nta

so your sil was racist and teaching her kids her ways

the fact she said she was doing a favour is redflag

does your mil now what a bindi is?

i would educate but still keep your daughter away from them

do not give in your culture is part of your daughters

they may be white but your daughter is also half Asian

Strict-Issue-2030

Partassipant [3]

6mo

INFO: has your husband also been active in speaking to his sister and his mother?

It’s good that he agrees with you and is on your side. He should also be actively telling them off since they are his immediate family. You are NTA, what they did was active bullying not a prank. Pranks don’t cause damage to other peoples property.

ETA: his parents/sister are still his immediate family and OPs in-laws. As such, OPs husband should also be the one telling his family apologies are owed and not allowing MIL to sweep this under the rug. While it (should) shift priority to your partner/children, marriage doesn’t change lineage. This is why I asked to what level OPs husband has intervened/spoken with his family.

Beautiful-Peak399

6mo

NTA but why can't your daughter swim at 14 years old?

Immediate-Echidna-17

6mo

I'm 34 & I can't swim.

Delphin_1

6mo

No excuse for the daughter, its still important.

Sweetsmyle

Asshole Aficionado [14]

6mo

NTA - It’s not a pack when the person being “pranked” is not laughing, that’s called bullying. Your SIL is a bully and so are her kids, definitely stand by your daughter and don’t make her go there anymore. Also why isn’t your husband dealing with his mom? Block her until she stops bullying you for protecting your daughter.

rebootsaresuchapain

Asshole Enthusiast [9]

6mo

If this happened outside of the family setting it could be reported as a racial hate crime. Why should you treat it any differently.

NTA.

creamteapioneer

6mo

NTA, your sister in law is, at best, not a very nice person.

Aside: please make sure your daughter learns to swim! It's an important life skill and only gets harder to learn the older you are (my granny learned at 60, it took her ages).

Hamdown1

6mo

You don't need those racist people in your life

throwaway17confused

6mo

NTA. Since your SIL uses reddit, there is a good chance she'll see this, so if SIL is reading this:

- You, SIL, are an awful aunt and even worse mother. OP trusted you by putting her daughter in your care and not only do you abuse this trust, you set an awful example for your children. The mental gymnastics you're doing to justify this is honestly Olympic worthy. Today it's your niece you lose and a cousin your kids lose, tomorrow it's other friends, family members, and one day it'll go far enough that someone will involve the police.

Harming someone's property is a punishable offence and can ensure jail time! If your a good aunt and a good mother you'll realise your mistake, reflect, and sincerely apologise and make things right.

Before you scroll, thinking everyone else just "doesn't get it", put yourself in their shoes. If your child calls you distraught over someone abusing something that is incredibly important to them, how would you feel if the adult in the situation did the same thing you did?

ata_shodhun_dakhav

Partassipant [1]

6mo

NTA, shame on them, and also there is really no need to meet cousins one doesn’t like.

Also as an Indian though, I N F O what is a bindi bag… never heard of it in my life (all of which has been spent in India)

Miss_Melody_Pond

6mo

NTA. SIL is a racist raising her kids to be racist brats too. No wonder she ran to mummy to dob. What a vile woman. I’d keep my daughter well away from her.

AtTheEastPole

6mo

Your sister in law and her children are horrible, horrible people.

Racists, bigots, and bullies.

You're NTA at all!

ResponseMountain6580

Certified Proctologist [25]

6mo

Your husband needs to tell MIL that her granddaughter is upset and that she doesn't want to go.

in_formation

6mo

NTA. You should also let your husband deal with his mother– racists always default to the role of victim when called out and she will more than likely continue to guilt trip you.

GiovanniVanBroekhoes

6mo

Not commenting on the subject, but please try and get your daughter swimming lessons. I know she is at an age where she probably wont want them.

Hopefully nothing ever happens where she will need to swim, but I am always surprised when I meet adults who cant swim. I know this is probably coming across as entitled, but we had to learn to swim in school.

robynxcakes

Partassipant [3]

6mo

NTA your SIL and kids are terrible, SIL needs to give these kids consequences not support their racist horrible behaviour

Stick to your guns and supporting your kid.

Tell MIL she can be on the ban list too since she doesn’t see how hurtful this behaviour is

Effective-Science463

6mo

NTA. "How exactly is this dumb prank funny? Really? How is it funny i don't understand. How is it funny?"

Sadly I think your husband needs to go on the warpath with his family and set them straight. Maybe ask MIL how she'd feel if someone made HER child upset as apparently you have by saying you just want an apology. Ask her exactly how its ok for her to be mean but not you?

Sadly this is one of those "they need a lesson taught to them." Maybe you can do something similar and say "Did you like this? No? Well...." Just had a good idea. "Sis in law? So you did nothing wrong? Ok." Then go post on social media asking what people think of this "prank". Whether you name your sil and her kids or not is up to you. Bet SIL changes her tune FAST. Hell maybe threaten to do so before you post.

3kids_nomoney

6mo

A prank, much like a joke should be a laugh for all parties involved. This was not the case and I shocked these “pranksters and thieves” are doubling down Cos what they did was hurtful, racist and beyond rude. These young adults are already failed by their parent. Go no contact. And if people agree that stealing and being racist is a joke, they can all get together at the bottom of the pool.

I’m sorry this happened to your daughter. The world today isn’t as accepting as it should be.