I'm the single father of a wonderful 9 year old daughter. I make about $48k a year and we are doing "OK".
We have enough for all the stuff we need. A roof is over our head and food is in the fridge. I'm not stressed about utilities being cutoff or anything like that.
We also have most of the stuff we want. We can go out to eat a couple times a week and if my daughter wants me to take her and one of her friends to the trampoline park and to get ice cream... It's usually not a problem.
But we live small. I have a tiny little car that is cheap and we live in a one bedroom apartment. She has the bedroom all to herself and I have the living room.
I also think we've kind of trained ourselves not to want things we can't have. So that may be a lot of the reason it feels like we have most of the things we want. Something like a Disney vacation or a big house or a really nice car doesn't even cross our mind. Because it's so out of reach for us. Those are things rich people have to us- they are in the same category as yachts and private jets for us.
We're comfortable. Very comfortable. But I imagine our version of comfortable would look like poverty to some other families out there. I've never had less money to my name. But I've also never been as happy and content as I am right now.
When we are hanging out playing a board game or watching a scary movie when my daughter should be in bed... But we are having too much fun... I feel rich. And I feel bad for the people who have yachts and big houses and private jets because they may not have these moments the same way we do.
When I was growing up in Albuquerque, I had a friend being raised by a single parent, and it was exactly like you describe. They didn’t have a lot of money, but man, did we ever have fun in that house! The board games and card games (UNO), and my friend’s mom was a hairdresser, so she did our hair and let us dress up to watch the Oscars one year, like we were walking the red carpet! 😂 Yeah, you’ve got riches that other folks can’t even dream of, and as a kid who grew up in and around households that were low-income, trust me - you’re doing it right.
I admire you
You have built a beautiful life with your daughter ❤️
And you are living a better life than at least one person making 3x that.
Don't ask me how I know.
I'm in almost the same boat, 7 year old daughter. I am fortunate to have a 2 bedroom apartment. I love every minute of time with my daughter. We are comfortable, I definitely cut back on my meals so I can give her what she wants when I have her. I make about 48k a year as well.
This is beautiful! You are doing a great job
At the end of the day that's what it's all about My friend your a billionaire in my eyes 💯
so what do you do for a living?
Yeah, you're comparing apples and oranges. This chart is literally supposed to be very comfortable -- 50% on what you need, 30% on wants, and 20% on savings. It's ironic that everyone's interpreting it as "as little possible to barely scrape by" - guess it just shows where the middle class is as a country.
I'll admit I skimmed the graph lol. I was literally waiting on discharge from hospital for my kid. Saw the 80k and thought that wouldn't be too bad. The 200k would mean not worrying about the incoming bill at all.
So yea...vanishing middle class problems. I can't even imagine savings rn.
For all those saying it's high, it's because of the 50/30/20 rule, which used to be a thing back when the middle class actually made money. It means you should spend 50% of your money on needs, 30% on wants, and 20% on savings. This is how much you'd need to make if you were putting away 20% of your salary and spending only 50% of it on housing, insurance, medical, groceries, transportation, etc.
Just a good indicator of how fucked prices and wages are in today's world
Thank you for this explanation. Anytime I see them use a subjective word like "comfortable" it makes me wonder what metric they're using to determine the calculations.
Based on the rule you've described, that means half the stated income would be "surviving" but not getting much in the way of Wants, and zero Saving. On that level, it makes sense.
Yep, as a person at about 3/5 that wage, I'm doing fine in terms and needs and my relatively few wants, but saving very little. I'd say I'm more like 70/20/10, if not 80/15/5, and that's living with roommates
Literally me. I live quaintly by design so, I'm happy! But I can't save! I really try 💀💀 there's just always something!
Right? Like are we saving for a vacation, or does avacation go under WANTS? For some people it's probably a NEED after some time...
Are cell phones and Internet still a "want" as they were in the late 90s, I'd argue they're 100% a need these days.
How much of a clothing budget goes in the NEED file, vs want? I mean, I NEED pants - I WANT new pants more often than I NEED them. (not really... just an example, all my jeans are ripped out at the heel and have holes around the pocket seams)
Same for food - I NEED to eat, but if I'm a single young person it can be cheaper to eat out than over-shop and waste groceries (well, used to be... food prices are all fuckity right now, so hard to say)...
The whole 50/30/20 thing is a good example of a moving target in terms of flawed logic.
Yea the 50% on needs portion is really key. Out of curiosity I just ran some numbers for the single case to see if it tracks with what I'd expect and it seemed to line up pretty well.
$83k salary comes out to about $70k after taxes, 50% of which on needs is $35k. Per month that's about $2900 for needs.
Based on some averages and guesses per month:
| Item | Estimated cost | Rationale |
|---|---|---|
| Rent | 1100 | ballpark Abq average, could be 900-1400 depending on source |
| Utilities | 130 | gas electric water, ~avg for 1 bdrm apt |
| Health insurance | 120 | avg assuming subsidized through work |
| Car payment | 300 | low end for typical car payment |
| Car insurance | 80 | low end for comprehensive |
| Gas | 130 | low end of avg (~$130-200) |
| Phone | 50 | |
| Internet | 50 | |
| Groceries | 300 | USDA "thrifty" food spending for working age adult |
| Medical | 50 | assuming good health with occasional appointments |
| Home supplies | 50 | toilet paper, a shelf here and there, etc |
| Clothing | 50 | as required for work and replacement |
| Student loans | 200 | low end of average |
This comes out to $2610, which is in the right ballpark of the $2900. I probably missed some stuff and not everyone has bottom barrel costs for all these things. Could have some leeway if some of these costs don't apply to you, but also could easily go up with medical costs, long commutes, etc.
I guess my point of this exercise is that with the 50% on needs part, that $83k salary likely doesn't go as people probably think.
rent is nowhere near 1100 for even a 2 bedroom house, much less a 3 bedroom. they’re closer to 1600-1800 in the s valley, and even more in the heights.
This is for an individual.. not a household. $1100 is the ballpark for a 1 bedroom apt.
Oh yes! Thanks for the clarification. I was looking at the four person family column.
Phone and internet $50???
Ya right
In what universe is anyone’s car note even in the same ballpark as $300/month. Please tell me bc that’s where I’m going as soon as interdimensional travel is a thing
A $15k loan at 7% for 60 months is right at about $300 a month. Or $13k for 48 months, etc. I don't think this is unreasonable for a conservative used car payment.
The average payment for the US is more around $500 a month. Doesn't change the point of the math.
My last three cars have been purchased in about $15,000 5 years of payments that's $300 a month
People who drive Hyundais
This should be higher up
Serious question: When did the average middle-class American make enough to spend a third of their salary on whatever? I don't think that past has ever existed. The middle-class stereotype is parents who buckle down and don't waste money.
People used to do shit like go on vacation.
The middle-class stereotype is parents who buckle down and don't waste money.
That's a new stereotype. In the 90s, middle class was two cars, 2,000 sq ft house, 2.5 kids, and a two week destination vacation once a year. With a growing savings account.
Why didn't you tell me this 30 years ago?
For all those saying it's high, it's because of the 50/30/20 rule
It still seems high. At 12k a month, maybe one of the needs is an F150 Raptor, and one of the wants is a Lexus IS500.
daycare seems to run 1000-1500 per kid per month here depending on location and age of the kid. if 2-3k goes to daycare each month and all of your other bills are supposed to be covered by half your income, 12k per month take home seems about right.
Census estimates the median income ~$36k.
This study seems suspect for the simple reason that Houston is somehow cheaper than, well, everywhere else.
But, then again, I can kind of believe it. Thing about Houston is that it lacks zoning, and is sprawled the fuck out. For that reason, if you go on Zillow, you can find just under 1000 apartments in the Houston area priced under $1000. Here in Albuquerque, there's ~225 that match that price. Only real catch is that you might need to embrace a hellish commute to live somewhere that's within your budget, but otherwise, between the relative lack of impediments to home construction and the virtually limitless amount of land, finding a decent place to live within a reasonable budget isn't that bad.
Semi-related note, finally visited the new Whole Foods on Carlisle, and was overtaken with a mix of both awe and horror. It's a corncupia of bourgeois delights, but in its modern interior I caught a glimpse of the future, and for the first time I actually believed that we're catching up to Denver in, well, everything, for better or worse.
So yeah, I can believe the number
Don't get over that way much, but glad to hear the new Whole Foods is open. Need to check it out!
I think that they really really have to change the poverty line from 18k, or whatever it is now, to about 50-60k. The problem is that the median household income in NM is somewhere below 60k. It would mean that most people in NM live below the poverty line. Which dont think it's wrong.
It really depends if you had stable housing before this housing crisis happened in the last few years.
I had to find a new rental this year, and that significantly hurt my financial situation.
I’m single with kids full time, no child support, and I make just a bit under what this chart recommends for a single person.
Between groceries and health insurance I still had to rack up $15k in credit card debt just this year from life emergencies. We live frugally. Literally rarely leave the house besides kids school.
I can confidently say I probably wouldn’t have most, if not all, of that debt had we not been forced to move while housing became so expensive.
The reality is it’s all subjective: my neighbor is also single with kids, makes less than me, but her family helped her buy her home before the boom, plus they live in the area to provide childcare: that’s a huge financial impact.
New Mexico use to be affordable, now I find that the money I use to “save” by living here is possibly no longer worth the trade off of the minimal resources for me here, as much as I love NM.
Depends on if you own or rent, what your debt ratio is like, lots of factors. I do believe we should all be making at least that, even if some believe they are living comfortably with less.
Livin comfortably on half that with 2 kids.
When did you buy your house? That makes a huge difference these days
2019 when joint income was about 65k. Refi in 2021. We did have good luck with timing on both those fronts, and have both since been promoted.
We’d all love 2019 housing and 2021 interest rates these days.
For real
Same timing for us. I think my home interest is less than my car interest. By a good margin.
Yup and child care is the other big factor that will make or break a middle class budget.
50/30/20 rule for those who are saying it’s too much.
Right. We can survive on lower here. Can’t save much, though. Vacations? Rare.
It seems there's a fair amount of subjectivity here in terms of what "comfortable" means. I feel for some people saying it's too high might not have a full understanding of the 50/30/20 budgeting.
I think what's important to remember is that the 50/30/20 is aimed to provide a comfortable standard of living, not just scraping by or living paycheck to paycheck. It means having the financial freedom to enjoy life without constant worry about bills or unexpected expenses.
Agreed. It really took my teacher pay reaching approximately $40/hour before I finally no longer felt like I was scaping by. It wasn't $80k per year though! My salary was actually only about $61k per year.
The infographic might have just made more sense if it listed monthly income instead of hourly and salary rates?
Sounds about right. Kids are expensive to raise.
Most NM jobs don’t pay this well, the power move is WFH/remote and getting paid Bay Area or Boston wages. Then living in Albuquerque becomes very comfortable
Seems pretty high... not sure what their metrics are to generate that number.
Feels existential dread.
For single person, yes. For a family, its a bit high
Hard to agree with a subjective metric like "comfortable" without them really defining what that is.
80% of that budget is Needs (50%) & Wants(30%). Not everyone NEEDS nor WANTS the same things, and there's often a very murky line between those two.
You can get by on less, until you have some kind of crisis - your car needs a major repair; your roof starts leaking and needs to be replaced; you have some small heath crisis requiring you to pay your full yearly out-of-pocket of $10k; etc.
Yes everyone moved here and made everything more expensive. The houses are 150k over what they should be. 200k house is not 400k. Everyone came here because it was one of the cheapest states.
This family of 2 lives on half of that quite comfortably.
I’m living pay check to paycheck on 65 k. Have a nice place and don’t have to worry about going out occasionally but saving almost nothing. “Comfortable” in the sense that I’m used to living this way - not comfortable in the sense that any major expense would be a big issue and I’m not really saving
That's more than I make as a single adult and I am very comfortable.
BUT I also bought a small condo right before prices skyrocketed and I do not drive, so I could see how it'd be different for someone who way paying current rent prices and/or had to deal with the expenses associated with a car.
I make right around this and support myself and my son on it. I have enough to save roughly 20%, I own a modest house and I have enough for frugal travel (like camping and visiting family) and some fun.
Seems a bit high
MITs living wage calculator says half that. Who knows who has the more reliable data.
I think livable vs comfortable is a big difference
In abq you'd be living good if you're smart with an income like that my mom raised 4 kids on 20k a year and plenty of new mexicans do exactly that.
They would be fantastic but truth is I could live on 60,000 salary a year. .. not making that but 83,000 seems like a lot! I would have less wirry
I make a little more than that and live quite comfortably. I have 20k in my checking account and am financing my truck and renting a small 1 bedroom apartment. I'm fixing to buckle down into a strict fixed budget pretty soon so as to stock pile more cash. I figure a frugal person can live fine on 50k a year if they manage the money wisely and skip some frivolous things like eating out too much and Starbucks/etc everyday.
I make $15/hr and rent prices I'm seeing on 1 bedrooms are almost 2/3 my take home. So yeah sounds about right.
I make less than this and I live comfortably here. My overhead is pretty low though (one kid, fixed rate mortgage, almost no CC debt etc.)
The numbers are obviously averages, but those averages are driven up by huge car payments, credit card/student loan debt, and outrageous housing costs. If you own your car, don’t have tons of debt, and bought a house before covid then you could probably chop those numbers in half
clickbait
With 2 children, yes.
People will debate about that living comfortably means, but getting your kids ready for their future isn’t cheap anymore.
nope. not unless you count private school as a necessity.
Horse shit. A family can live just fine in or around Albuquerque on half of that.
I think these "studies" assume that you need a new house, two new cars, the latest iPhone, and that you eat out every night. 🙄
They may be able to live just fine, but can they set aside 20% of their income for retirement? Can they save their $5,000 or $10,000 out-of-pocket health insurance maximum in case they need it? Can they put aside $3,000+ for a pet expense fund? Is there enough to save for future medical or educational expenses.
Sure, you can survive on a LOT less. But can you truly plan for the future?
I think it’s accurate, but only if one defines the parameters better. Do you $207,000 to just barely get by with a family of four? Probably not. Do you need $207,000 for a family of four that eats healthy, lives in a neighborhood that’s at least not horribly crime ridden? Maybe take a trip once a year. Yes. Yes you do. Or even more.
Shit. That means that very very few people here will live like this.
Reading other posts, I forgot about retirement. This is a factor. I understand it depends on when one starts with 401k, or etc., but no matter what, any semblance of a retirement changes the parameters even more.
99 percent fucked.
Yeah.
Hahaha. I make like a 1/4 of that. Hahaha thanks for letting me stay mom. I would be homeless and I would’ve killed myself. A long time ago.
When most places to rent a one bedroom or studio apt are like $1200+ per month, not including utilities, this checks out. Add on another $350-450 for utilities and internet, then another $300 for a month of groceries, then $100-200 for car insurance, roughly $100 week($400/month) in gas to get to work, another $200+ a month if you don't own your car outright, and you quickly need roughly $3-4k a month to afford to live even somewhat comfortably as a single person household. That translates to about $50k a year in expenses with nearly nothing left over. OH, and you have to make around $25/hour at full time to make that.
It depends on the standards you’re setting but for a typical American middle class life that is probably right
yup. idk about y'all but i'm going to el paso!!
Yes!!!
Feels high, but it's because this includes 'extras' like healthcare
pretty close. You can eek it out if you can find deals, but anything under 40k feels like scraping by, and my sister with her 2 kids wouldnt be making it if not for govt assistance, child support, and 50 hours of work a week.
To simply exist it’s high but to be comfortable, buy a house, pay bills and save some money it’s reasonable. Two of us make a combined 55 an hour but I can’t buy a car right now, that’ll tip the balance.
Damn. I make $38k a year for two adults, no wonder I feel like we're barely surviving. And this is the best job I can get and it's killing me. Wish I had time to get into a trade...
I make just under that as a single adult no kids and I live paycheck to paycheck.
$57,166 is needed according to this local news article: https://www.krqe.com/news/albuquerque-metro/salary-needed-to-pay-rent-in-albuquerque/. I showed this article to by boss and asked for a raise. It worked.
Feels pretty high, but also my hometown requiring $78k for "comfortable" living doesn't seem right either.
I think that this is something that historically has always been kind of hard to quantify.
I have noticed that literally the easiest way to obtain broader education, certifications, or other skills to move up in town is by going to CNM, though. I'm honestly surprised CNM doesn't "advertise" much or isn't bugger than it is.
I wanna see the rest of the list
lol this is jokes
I make $140,000 with two kids and I suppose we're comfortable but I thought I would firmly be in the middle class if I made that much....evidently middle class is $170,000 and it feels like it. I don't have an abundance of savings or plethora of investments. I still have to budget and can't take expensive vacations. I guess it's your perception of comfortable. I don't really worry about bills so in that sense, yes we're comfortable.
I'd be happy if I was making something like.....hmmmm $17-19/hr at my current rent with no utilities. That would leave more space to build an emergency fund and possibly move voluntarily rather than be stressed about the expenses of moving.
Instead of trying to raise wages constantly, why don’t we try to lower taxes, make insurance across-the-board and hospitals more accountable & transparent. Cracked down on crony capitalism and keep college affordable and college tuition had a fair price. Shouldn’t we start here?? Rather than making small companies disappear due to wages and regulations and larger companies grow larger becoming a monopoly, because we give them more power by shutting down their competition with regulations and unrealistic wages?
one would have to define "comfortable"...
No, but because of how unnecessarily high El Paso is. You def do not need to make Houston level money to live there comfortably.
I’d say it’s probably too high if you own a house you purchased more than 4 years ago but maybe even a little low if you are renting a new place or buying right now.
The cost of shelter increase has been really huge in the Albuquerque area compared to other parts of the state
I think it's pretty on target if you want to be able to save money for emergencies and save up for college if you have kids etc. Yes, you can live well with less, but considering median cost of a home now is like 340k, rent 1900 ish and food, car, health insurance and everything gets higher and higher, 85k is reasonable if you want to have a fighting chance and actually plan life. Wages need to be higher here, and we should all be asking for more when we negotiate salary.
Seems right to me.
This is high. I live in Houston and you definitely don’t need 175k/yr to live comfortably. I have 2 kids and a wife that doesn’t work and we live in a nicer side of town and do just fine.
They should raise the minimum wage to 40 bucks an hour then.
Yeah that tracks. With housing costs through the roof and eating a significant portion of your income.
Seems high
It seems high to me. I live comfortably on less as a married person with two kids at home but we don't travel and only have one car.
Seems high....I raised 2 kids on alot less than that 200k number in ABQ.
But when?
Currently doing it....I would say we are very comfortable and between wife and I make 150k. 2 kids. Have a house in NE, a couple cars, a vacation per year....and we aren't skimping in food to make it happen. I see how hard it is for younger folks and agree stuff has to change, but the idea of being ready for kids before you have them is impossible.
“A lot less than” seems to be defined very differently by different people 😂
That's true, but in my mind 25 percent less than the number in the original post is alot....I know some folks do it with even less
I think the big factor in this is that you likely bought your house and your cars prior to 2020. Houses are in some cases worth double and interest rates have tripled. So your $150k goes farther than if someone TODAY bought those 3 things you already own. I’m also assuming they’re buying a modest baseline cheap, used, and reliable car for like $15k and a 3 bed 2 bath in your same neighborhood which will like have a $2600k mortgage assuming they have an 800+ credit score.
That's probably true, fair assessment
The problem is there a lot of people that live in New Mexico but don’t work in New Mexico. They screw up the income median and reason why housing is so expensive.
You think the remote workers in NM are in such a high number they significantly influence the averages?
What do you think the percentage is of (out of state) remote vs local jobs (including WFH) in NM? Among those, how many pay significantly above NM median wages? I'd be absolutely shocked if it were much more than 3-5%
Remote work is absolutely a big deal - but as more and more companies start to call people back, they're also seeing the potential to pay people less for WFH in lower cost of living cities. Offering someone here $60k for a job they'd get $100k for in the Bay Area will probably get more applicants than the bay area.
Point is, remote workers is not the reason for the housing issues here - it's lack of inventory and demand pressures from multiple vectors. Big ones are private equity groups buying up housing to squeeze the market.
I’m not talking about remote workers I’m talking about people that chose Albuquerque as their home location but travel for work. I’ve done Uber for a few years I’ve ran into so many people from politicians to defense contractors. When their houses have basket courts, tennis courts and what ever else can fit on their acres of land. You start to realize how poor you really are
Tomato / tomato. Whether you have a home office, and do the majority of your work from home, and occasionally travel to an office or job site in another state, or if you are a 100% remote worker that never needs to leave their house to do their job - it all amounts to the same. Sure, some of those high level positions in big corporations will include a travel stipend, and sort of by their very nature needs to be competitive at a national level... But those jobs are exceedingly rare.
Driving people to and from the airport gives you a fairly distorted view of the situation, as you are much more frequently dealing with people who travel for work. For every person you drove to the airport leaving town to go work outside the state, how many thousands, tens of thousands, do you think just got up and drove themselves to work somewhere in town?
Again, not denying that there is a population in every city that benefits from national labor trends, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to show that those wages significantly change the median or average income here. We have a lot of people living in this state that are very wealthy. Los Alamos county has the highest per capita population of millionaires in the US. Sure, a lot of them will travel to other labs and DC for work related functions, but they are permanent residents living in and working in New Mexico.
Nope. That number is too high.
I am single and just bought a house this last summer. I would say that amount is about right. I make more than that and live comfortably in my house, which was $386k. I probably could have gone for something a little more expensive, but my house has more than I need, and I at this point, I am not trying to clean a bigger house, lol.
Sounds about right, soon to be low.
This question is pointless, because “comfortable” is a COMPLETELY subjective term. Our household is two adults, two kids, around 380k (Los Lunas, but close to enough to ABQ). By my definition, we wouldn’t be “comfortable” for $207k.
This is not true. You can get 1-2 BR apartments in decent places for under 1500. That doesn’t exist in most places in the country. Rent is the primary expense for most people unless you have multiple children in pre-k/daycare.
They really don’t say what metrics define live comfortably for this analysis though.
Can’t say if it’s properly placed on the list either as I’m not familiar with most of these cities.
The cheap 2 bedroom in a safe neighborhood (Albuquerque does have readily available crime statistics and that area is North of Paseo and East of Wyoming) is at least $1600 without utilities or renters insurance or any additional fees. Forget saving for your kids to go to college or retirement. Plus car costs such as insurance, gas, maintenance. There’s also grocery bills for feeding all of you, etc.
Yes 100%.
I’ve been eyeing going from Tucson to ABQ.
This is promising
I feel like this is pretty accurate. I make less than half of that and I can’t afford to live anywhere here. Even on low income.
I disagree strongly but I don’t know what this includes in a person’s budget
lol i think thats too high. you can survive on 20$ wage ABQ is not new york. u can survive in NYC for 40 annhour n be comfortable but not as much as long as u have a rent controlled crib
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Feels high, but at same time we have one kid on 65k and it is very tight. We were lucky enough to get a house before interest rates and prices got stupid, so we don't have a huge rent to pay. As long as prices don't take another huge jump, 85k for the 3 of us would probably be fine.
Not sure we need over 200k tho...although it would be much more comfortable in terms of being able to pay off our loans and debt and stuff and actually have a disposable income.