(Kigali's transformation).
What are some lessons that we can learn from Rwanda in terms development, rule of law and priorities as a continent?
African Discussion.A good dictator could change your country haha
Most Asian countries were developed by good / visionary dictators .Kagame is a visionary man, unlike most African leaders who just steal and are content with importing everything.
We already tested the dictator angle, but it failed miserably. I believe Kagame is a perfect fit for a country like Rwanda. A country that's still recovering from the heinous atrocities of the past and an extremism unimaginable. I still believe that the nature and sentiment that led to those acts are still available in the country, and Kagame serves as a deterrent or pacifier for those rhetorics. We have to remember the capabilities and potential they've shown and acknowledge that Kagame is the better evil.
Still a dictator though.
A necessity for Rwanda.
So are you asking whether countries in Africa need dictators? Well...
Benevolent dictatorships can work better than most normal democracies especially in developing economies, given the potential for long term planning and policy setting.
With that being said the problem with dictatorships is that the vast majority of them are not benevolent and a lot of them also do not have effective policy setting.
So essentially what is happening in Rwanda (and what has happened in some Asian countries like Singapore) is a Unicorn scenario that is hard to replicate in other countries.
Right. Wouldn't advocate for thst system. Our continent is a big experiment of why that's a bad idea. We have dictatorships pretending to be democracies
True.
In terms of what we need? Yes a lot of countries in Africa would benefit from a long term benevolent dictatorship that would set effective and iron clad policies in place before becoming a true democracy.
But in reality most African countries are entirely unsuitable to such.
Nigeria for example has too many competing tribes and powers in place that would be difficult to subjugate entirely without overwhelming force.
That is 100% true
Ghafafi was a "good dictator". Obviously, with many flaws and human rights violations... but we can all agree he developed his country into some sort of paradise where you could live peacefully as long as you didn't oppose him.
I'd prefer a dictator like Kagame any day to rule my country. One that is visionary and wants to actually improve the lives of the people and the services of the government while attacking blatant corruption.
I'd rather that than the so-called "democratic" leaders who are not even elected. They come, they lie, they loot, lie again, and loot some more while the nation goes down the drain.
For the people who say; Kagame violates peoples (especially his oppositions), human rights, and free speech rights. I say; human rights and speech rights do not amount to anything when you are hungry, homeless, unsafe, unable to progress in life because of lack of education, health, corruption, excessive beurocracy, etc.
Hmmm, fund paramilitary groups in neighbouring countries to extract their resources so you can sell it off to colonial powers?
The next-door neighbour is already in the dumps. Getting looted left right and centre by everyone and unable to clean up their act. Yes I know foreighm powers play a huge role in the disorder, but so does the government and it has for years. If their own government is looting the country and gives a rats a$$ about the people or state of the nation. Then why should anyone else.
And I usually say this to all Africans, we want respect, we want the world to repsct us and treat us as equals. But even in our own countries, we are not treated as equals, nor do we treat each other as equals, well, most people. It is unfortunate, but until we get our sh!t together, nothing will change. The world will keep looking at us as corrupt hungry war torn nations, and we will continue to be so.
If DRC are unable to take care of their own resources. Someone else will. Only this time, it is a neighbouring African country instead of one from a far away land.
I don't like it nor support it. But I also understand it. And yes, it is the same mindset the colonialists have. It is also the same mindset our forefathers had before the colonialists arrived at our shores. How do you think the olden kingdoms were established. How do you think your tribe aquired their land and resources. By asking nicely? No, they took it from those whom they could take it from. It is a human mindset that will always exist as long as there is scarcity and an opportunity to take advantage of other nations. Unfortunately, history has proven this to be true time and time again.
"Only this time, it is a neighbouring African country instead of one from a far away land."-> Rwanda is a proxy for foreign companies.
The resources are extracted for nearly $0 by the groups they pay to control fiefdoms in the Eastern DRC. The resources are then transported into Rwanda and onto the international market.
Rwanda is effectively just a middleman.
I agree... that is why the government in DRC should stomp out corruption, bring order to their lands and build their country so that a nation smaller than most provinces in the DRC cannot bully them around
The same country that accepted to help Britain keep thousands of migrants and asylum seekers?
Tbf they are also looking at it more from the angle of trying to tap into the skills of those migrants to further boost their economy.
That being said they are also being paid to do it. So that could also be a conflict of interest.
Most of those people aren't genuine asylum seekers, but running away from poor leadership. Why are people from Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Congo, Senegal, Gambia, Ghana, ...etc looking for asylum in Europe?
I agree... I wouldn't want such waves coming to my country as well... people act as if not wanting waves of immigration is solely based on racism. Yet if you asked them what if millions of people per year illegally migrated to your country, would you be OK with that. Most would answer no, and add send them back to where they came from. Borders are there for a reason.
And before someone comes and says the borders were drawn by colonialists. Yes, that's true. But even before the colonialists, we had borders. Each tribe, nation, and kingdom had their own borders that they managed and controlled.
Kill your neighbors. Steal their stuff. Sell that shit. Flex.
Well they are just doing what the nations government is already doing to its own people. Is it right. No. But it will happen either way, by Rwandese hands, the government or someone else until DRC gets its shit together.
And yes I know foreign powers are at play and fuel the chaos. What I am saying is the government also fuels the chaos and would even add that they fuel most of it. Especially the local governments.
I believe that Rwanda is the death of an dictator away from the same issues they had in 1994
I believe so too.
I doubt it. I hope not. Plan on moving there to run away from the disaster that is going on in my own country.
I hope not either.
Let me not talk.... But not all their development is good or something others can replicate
Rwanda is genocide mongering country they are not an example
Kagame has transformed Rwanda we cannot take that from him.
Hitler transformed Germany.
We cannot take that away from him either
We absolutely can. The implication is that these countries could only develop under the guise of these dictatorships. It's like saying Africa could only develop because of colonialism. It's making excuses for atrocities.
It's not an implication. It is a fact. Germany grew from a fallen destroyed state to a nation threatening the rest of Europe under Hitler. Like it or not.
Rwanda went from an impoverished war-torn nation to a gem in Africa under Kagame. Like it or not.
It's like saying Africa could only develop because of colonialism.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that, nor do I believe that. I believe we can grow and develop by investing in infrastructure, education, health, reduction of beurocracy, reduction of politicians and their salaries, and reduction of corruption. That is how we develop.
We do the same thing China did. Build roads, supply water and electricity to every home. Build a friendly environment for businesses to thrive, and the government stays out of people's businesses. That is how I believe we eliminate poverty.
It's making excuses for atrocities.
Never said nor did that. Botswana and Namibia are perfect examples of how democracies in Africa can thrive and shine and bring development to their people.
We were talking about Kagame, and you were responding to a Hitler comment. That is why I made my comment.
You're basically saying "at least Hitler gave Germany trains" while trying to ignore what the trains were used for.
It is what it is. I honestly don't have much of a problem with that guy. Read his biography, and it was really interesting. In the same way I read about the British Empire, American Empire, Genghis Khan, Russian Empire, Chairman Mao, Osama, Muammar Gaddafi, and more. All of whom have committed unimaginable atrocities. Even though the British put my people in concentration camps and committed genocide that has not been acknowledged to this day. I hold no ill will towards them.
I believe we can only learn from history. And that is what I do when I read about them. That doesn't mean that I like or support them. I just understand history is ugly and full of evil. We can learn from it or repeat it.
To me, I see it as a mainly European war, which, of course, would have ended badly for us in the motherland if he had won. Did he and his people commit many atrocities. Yes, most definitely, and I condemn them all.
But I have a bigger issue with King Leopold II of Belgium. He massacred millions in DR, and the world just turned a blind eye.
Rwanda is too selfish.
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