www.bbc.com/news/articles/cw4478wnjdpo
Water industry investors have withdrawn billions, claims research
This is how it ends when you sell everything to private companies. City transport, energy, water, waste should belong to council or whoever related under a strict guidance. Citizens of on of the cities in my home country had issues with a private waste management company that elevated prices to some ridiculous level. I didn’t follow that story but council took back waste management under it’s control and lovered prices to normal level.
The thing is, the private companies demand they be paid for the failed services they have stripped and run into the ground by Gvt and local councils. Then, when society has bought them back up to quality, with massive investment funded by tax payers, a fucking Muppet gets into power, and sells them off again.
We the voters are grade A fucking stupid for voting for anyone associated with this privatisation of critical services bullshit.
they're holding councils hostage. They took over social care because councils have a statutory duty to fund these. They simply suck funds out of the tax payer, cut services to bare minimum, give themselves massive bonuses then beg the government to hand over tax payer money when they fail and need a bail out.
Yet 40%o of the country would rather blame poor cunts or foreigners on all the problems. the main problem is rich greedy bastards.
the main problem is rich greedy bastards.
Agree, but punching down is so much easier than punching up.
Somehow we have been brainwashed into believing that those who are wealthy deserve what they have and are better than us, which is a bald faced fucking lie. The wealthy are no more deserving than those on a benefit, no more deserving than the workers who work brutal long hours and still cannot afford to heat their homes, or eat, no more deserving than those with disabilities and sickness who get shafted by a system designed to deny them any help at all. If anything the wealthy should be looked upon with scorn and derision for the virulent lives they lead.
The Bank of England has said that the boom in immigration hasn't led to the expected increase in GDP and is behind a third of the increases in rent. With there being a marked difference in the "quality" of immigrants. Immigration from "Western"/Advanced countries including Eastern Europe, Japan, Australia, Korea is a benefit. Migrants from countries like Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan etc. are a net drain.
Because absolutely EVERYONE is asking landlords to raise their rents. landlords and the government not building houses are at fault for that if anyone has to be.
That’s the nature of the business and someone allows it. There is not enough of regulations, in don’t know. Energy company milked me out of 1200 or so from my account because of faulty meter. I fought them but even ofgem told me that i can accept it or take it to court. They didn’t fix if when i asked several times and in the end they took all the money from my account i had with them. So big player always win and gets its money this way or another. I agree with you 100%
So big player always win and gets its money this way or another.
Of course.
Private companies aren't here provide a service to you, they are there to maximize shareholder and management returns. People in your situation, they would rather run through the legal system than admit fault. For, if they admit it once, when it keeps happening, they get exposed for the corrupt practices they encourage to keep milking you.
The organizations designed to keep private companies in check get hollowed out, given next to no power, and have lackeys for industry appointed to head them. They are a farce designed to make you feel that they are kept in check,.
Sad but true
Most politicians subscribe to privatising everything. Partially due to years of dogmatic propaganda but also because it's often in their interest to do so. Legalized thieves essentially.
More of the evils of Thatcherism.
Politicians know what they are doing. They frame it under efficiency and savings and best for people, when they know that money will find it's way to donors and eventually to them. Cunts the lot of them
And people swallow it because of memes.
Makes me laugh when even the land of free and capitalism got it almost right. All the infrastructure, utilities, libraries, schools, airports etc are still mostly owned by their respective counties, cities and states.
Then you've got the National Parks, USPS, Amtrak, the FAA ATCs, TSA and much more owned and operated by the government.
Everything I mentioned above has either been sold off (Royal Mail, water, NATS) or is subcontracted/franchised to the private sector here in the UK (the National Trust, road maintenance, schools, libraries, railways, airport security).
Healthcare is the only thing we haven't technically privatised, but even then the whole model relies on NHS England subcontracting its services to GPs, local trusts while relying on private sector for its operations (IT, Supply Chain, HR).
We really fucked up when even America is doing things better than us. And it's clearly reflected in all the data.
It’s just sad really. How did we let things get to this point. Public service should never be for profit, how did those cronies convince people to let the fabric of modern society become all about profit and shareholder value? Everyone is carving out their share of the dying empire.
That's horseshit. Consumer protection in the states somehow manages to even outdo the UK in fucking over the little guy. See the freak weather in Texas for example.
When you realise the biggest investors in Thames Water were overseas pension funds, you realise how ridiculous it is that we sold out a natural resource to bolster the retirement portfolio for the next group of pensioners… in another country. No other reason why they would pay out such insane dividends while being completely underfunded - like state sanctioned embezzlement.
As if all of our taxes aren’t propping up the aging demographic, so are the things we need to survive.
The original sale price was about 7billion, we took back £5billion in debt and gave about 1.5billion in kickback as some type of “green payment”. Even if we (very generously) call it the full 7billion, adjusted for inflation it’s almost certainly less than we spent on fraud during COVID.
I’m not really anti privatisation, but the way in which it was carried out was one of the worst examples of governance in our history.
Let’s see what would happen if we offered £20billion for all the water companies now (they could keep their debts).
For reference https://www.smf.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/The-cost-of-nationalising-the-water-industry-in-England.pdf this report suggests the cost of acquiring them at 90billion. Although they are probably a little more distressed now.
Privatisation is and always has been a scam.
Minor note:
But Mr Hall said: "You put the prices up because you can"
......as long as the Government signs off those bill increases.
Sadly that's where we are. Greedy corporations but the real issue is the Government enable, or in fact encourage, it.
If the Government said I could have an extra £100 per month in child benefit, I'd take it even if I didn't really need it.
..... and you get more money out of the customers, and then you pass it on to the shareholders because the business you’re in is providing a good return to your shareholders.
Thats the critical part of the sentence
You are absolutely right, Gvt does sign off on them, and you know why, because they are pocket deep in the individuals behind these services.
Agreed, I just think it's important to recognise (and it seems you do but many don't) that this is very much a governmental driven problem.
I think we'd all be surprised if any business didn't take all the cash they were allowed. So then it's up to the Government again to ensure they are providing an adequate service.
How weak/inept the Government has been on this in terms of both price fixing and regulation is why I'm not sure renationalising is the Silver Bullet many think.
The Scottish and Welsh models may not make any money but their performance isn't any better. (Well they are better than Thames Water but that's a very low bar)
The sale of any critical infrastructure should be held under referenda. This is an asset owned by the people, and yeah yeah, for the people. It shouldn't be sold on the corrupt whim of whatever politician has their pockets lined,
One word.....Thatcher
Scottish water is far better performing than its English counterparts. Far better with more long term infrastructure actually in place. Higher standards across the board.
On what measures specifically?
Compared to Thames Water almost certainly yes, compared to say Severn Trent or United Utilities I don't think it's clear at all.
As the hot topic is sewer overflows, this article makes interesting reading: BBC News - Scottish Water 'on track' to install new sewage monitors https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66012480
Monitoring of 4% of the sewer network compared to 89% in England. Basically no idea if their performance is good or bad.
I’m not sure why anyone would expect any different. You don’t buy a utility company expecting to pump money in, you do it for the free cash flow.
Amazing that if you criticise this, you're talking Britain down.
All the great things the government pertains to be the UK's strengths, they are actively burning down.
These people don’t deserve life, they’re fucking scum.
This needs to be made into an ELI5 and put on every local Facebook group
Oh, the FB bots will pile in and have it removed. Facts scare them.
So basically privatisation of utilities is a pump and dump, get rich quick, Gordon Gecko type deal that has absolutely no benefits to the public consumer.
Got it. Great idea. Now renationalise everything and take back control as the Tories like to say.
Gecko is all the right has. Zero talent parasites who control the media and tell you how to think. Unfortunately Rachel Reeves, Streeting and co seem cut from the same cloth.
This is easily solved, huge fines for breaking standards and buying the infrastructure for cheap when they bankrupt.
In short, privatisation was a mistake.
Public utilities, critical infrastructure, health and education should never be privatised...ever
That cannot be denied. The idea that it means that they work better has been exposed as a myth.
yea most companies avoid paying dividends so they can use the money to reinvest. with public infrastructure they just squeeze more out
Of all the things in this country I feel disgusted about, the water companies takes the cake. The lack of investment and high dividends paid mainly through taking out debt are fucking disgraceful.
Normally with these things the shadiness is quite hard to understand and required a good understanding of accounting and finance. Not here. Here it is obvious for all to see. People should be jailed and stripped of assets over this
They always wheel out the ' pension funds invest in utilities' line when there's any hint of them being allowed to fail or not pay dividends, with the onus always being on raising bills
....you know, that pension funds can just as easily de- invest and move elsewhere and they should.
Let the water companies fail, Ofwat has failed to do it's job and our politicians are complicit.
Fine them everyday, limit their dividends,let them fail, buy back for peanuts.
Something something ,Take back control.
Pension funds could easily fund further infrastructure projects and then re-distribute all the profits back to the members. Similar to the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan owning a lot of our infrastructure.
But they were incompetent and went for the quick wins...
This feels especially acute in Britain. I can imagine the headlines if pension funds invested in a vaguely risky thing and lost money. Risk taking needs to be introduced to a generation of people who've gotten use to their house prices continuously increasing, seemingly without risk.
That's the view of the Office for National Statistics, whose data showed pension funds held 1.6% of UK-listed stocks in 2022, down from 1.8% two years prior. The funds' slice of the market has steadily declined over the past three decades, from a peak of 32% in 1992, the statistics show.
That's a drop in the bucket but explaines why we were forced this way in the first place. Other countries have state pension proportional to their earnings instead.
that pension funds can just as easily de- invest and move elsewhere and they should.
What could be more reliable than water though? There's a reason that pensions go for stable long term investments, people always need water!
If it's so stable, why do they need to raise prices?
Oh wait, I forgot, it's stable because when they fuck up or under invest it's the consumer who must foot the bill. Silly me.
Guess the decades of papering over cracks to pay hefty dividends instead of replacing infrastructure was a mistake that we plebs must pay for.
Apparently, Free market economics only apply when you're winning.
Yes? Because people always buy water, because they have to, because there's no other choice but to buy water. So there's always a steady stream of money coming in.
They raise the prices because they are greedy,
The only thing left is to jail all those in charge or eat the rich. . .
Golly........who could forsee this happening,.........except anyone and everyone that actually knows what Capitalism is.
The privatisation experiment by thacher had clearly failed.
First railroads, now water.
Do we just sit and wait until power and telecoms fall apart?
Or do we act now and end this failed experiment.
Research shows all the money was taken out as dividends by greedy shareholders and not invested in the infrastructure supplying a vital resource? I’m SHOCKED. SHOCKED I tell you. That’s so unlike our privately owned water companies to not have the national interested at heart!
What do you think they were in it for? The natural interest in a national utility?
And what will we do to stop this nothing.
What will we do in the future nothing.
Why public services are for profit is ridiculous
This was the basic principle behind privatisation, there would have been no point in selling the companies of they didn't pay dividends to shareholders. The continuation of privatisation plans were pretty much confirmed by 1983 and 1987 election wins for Tories - not that criticism of the outcome now is wrong.
I would start a massive investigation and take all the CEOs and principal managers to court and, in some cases, whoever bears responsibility even to prison for ecological disaster (if there's any law that targets this behaviour).
Anyone that wants to privatize essential services like our drinking water is a fucking idiot or evil enough to be beneath contempt. The fact that this was ever allowed to occur is disgusting.
Shareholders that accepted this money and causing the infrastructure to go to pot and not be maintained properly should be held accountable too. Make the ones demanding profits and not caring about how they get it accountable.
Regardless of what you think of privatisation, it does not work for water. Here is why:
There is 1 water table. Only 1 entity can "own" it, meaning the company that does holds a monopoly.
As a result, the government (OFWAT) has to control prices, because market forces would let the monopoly 10x prices overnight.
Knowing they can't raise prices, the only way they can boost profits is slam investments,
Everything goes to shit (literally), and there is nothing anyone can do about it because THEY ARE A MONOPOLY.
Why is nobody really concerned that all the basic services are massively failing?
I'm so glad I've just given up. There is actually no point in the future. The past is bad enough.
Withdrawn? Taken out? WTF kind of biased language is this from our national broadcaster? It reads like an economically illiterate reddit comment. The BBC clearly hasn't heeded the warnings of the expert report on economic literacy in the media, it's basically just liberal arts graduates commenting from a position of complete ignorance.
5 missing replies
Yes. Go on.
Aha, ok, what else.
So, they put less in, pull more out to their own pockets, and you get the bullshit services and environmental clusterfuck thats now being observed.
But privatisation makes services more efficient! Anyone who says this should be told to STFU and stop fucking lying. All it does is extract wealth from those who can least afford it, and funnel it to those who have done the least to earn it. Fuck all the gvts that have allowed this to happen.
Your bills go up, not to improve services, but to line the pockets of these viruses.