Police response from being hit by a car

Law/Crime

I was cycling across a roundabout last August when a car pulled out, not looking right, I went over the bonnet, hit the road and then my world changed.

Fractured L2 vertebrae, still in pain 6 months on and I received this in the mail last week, i am absolutely fuming.

There were multiple witnesses at the scene, which the police attended, and had statements taken then before an ambulance arrived and took me to the hospital on a spinal board where I spent a few days before being sent home in a back brace. All in I was off work for 2 months and to this day I am still in pain.

Does anyone have any advice on what I can do? The driver has ruined my life with no recourse.

in ukbikeby Historical_Yogurt_31

223

91%

3mo

concernedcitizenpd

105

3mo

You gotta push back and make a stink about this, this is not OK!
don't be polite and British, this affects you and other people in this situation

ImpossibleDesigner48

3mo

Being the grammar police, it’s a poorly written letter full of unexplained acronyms and shorthand.

From a procedural perspective, OP may wish to explore the right to review scheme: https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/victim-support/victims-right-review-scheme/ I was surprised this was not mentioned in the letter.

ash894

3mo

Looks like they copy and pasted the sgt review from the report into the letter.

catsaregreat78

3mo

If you told me it was written by a football pundit, I’d believe you.

Tuff-Gnarl

3mo

Surely a football pundit would have referred to the motorists actions as “a cynical challenge” and recommended bringing charges?

catsaregreat78

3mo

Ah yes, good point.

I hope OP gets some resolution though, regardless of the literary foibles of Warwickshire Police.

Tuff-Gnarl

3mo

For sure!

W4llyb4lls

3mo

Sorry to hear about what happened to you, unsurprisingly the police are absolutely useless.

Really your only recourse is going to be a civil action against the driver, and making a complaint to the police force about their handling, from my experience the complaint will go nowhere but still worth doing.

I was knocked off by a driver in a hit and run in Oct ‘19, I had clear GoPro footage of it, vehicle reg etc. and two witnesses. All provided to the police, and told by GMP they were going to prosecute… they then let the 6 month time frame to do so expire, and basically gave me a “lol, sorry” when I asked what had happened.

My injuries were nowhere near as bad as yours, but I still took civil action against the driver and received a £7k payout. My complaint to GMP went absolutely nowhere, and they ultimately blamed their failure on Covid (incident was Oct ‘19…..)

Fair_Creme_194

3mo

“Unsurprisingly the police are useless”

The law is based on evidence and is ruled by proving beyond reasonable doubt, he said she said hardly ever stands up in court because there is always reasonable doubt , they have no say in whether it goes further CPS does, if it looks like CPS they don’t take the case forward or even bother making arrests because it’s pointless and time consuming for no result, what more do you want them to do? They can’t make a case out of nothing.

useittilitbreaks

3mo

I’d say having “clear GoPro footage” of being knocked off is a pretty good start.

Fair_Creme_194

3mo

I was talking about the comment about the police are useless in response to OP, I’ll edit my comment to reflect people are getting confused, totally my fault for that.

Tyrrexel

3mo

This the OP who said there are multiple witnesses who had statements taken that the police have ignored or lost?

CapstanLlama

3mo

Proving "beyond reasonable doubt" is the burden of proof required for conviction of a crime; the person you are replying to made a civil claim where the burden of proof is the lesser "balance of probabilities". If OP were to make a civil claim against the driver this would be the required burden of proof and, given the extent of injuries and existence of witnesses, would likely succeed. I suggest OP take a free initial consultation with a personal injury solicitor.

Fair_Creme_194

3mo

I’m talking about the conviction of a crime, which is what OP has said they would prefer in other comments, so my point stands, what more could they do?

OP is complaining about the result of a police complaint and the person above said the police are useless, but how are they when there is nothing they can do.

tizzleduzzle

3mo

Exactly civil and criminal much different process

mookow35

3mo

Because it sounds like they basically can't be arsed (which in reality is probably the case). They say there were witnesses which they haven't managed to contact and the OP says they took statements at the scene. I think they just don't want to do any investigating, which is their job.

Fair_Creme_194

3mo

OP said there was one witness, they took a little recount of the incident at the scene and haven’t been able to contact the only credible witness, they can’t just keep harassing them.

What can they investigate? There is no CCTV, the only independent witness cannot be contacted, nor forced to give evidence.

What are they investigating? They have nothing to go on lmao, they can’t investigate a he said she said without independent witnesses because both sides are claiming the other is at fault.

The letter reads as if they have no evidence, which is what criminal convictions rely on, no evidence, no charge, no charge, no CPS, no CPS no case, it’s not hard to understand.

For all we know OP could be in the wrong, there’s 3 sides to every story, their side, your side and the truth.

A lot of you think “they can’t be arsed” but if they have 0 evidence, CPS says no case and everything’s dropped, unless you want them to waste even more taxpayers money mounting full cases and investigations with 0 evidence, 0 witnesses on a he said she said basis and take it through the already over burdened justice system for a judge to say what have your brought me this for, I have no evidence to go on and throw it out.

Gareth79

3mo

From the wording of OP's letter, it looks like the sergeant binned it and the CPS weren't involved.

Fair_Creme_194

3mo

Yeah they know what CPS will take and won’t, they won’t take a he said she said incident as the courts can’t prove beyond reasonable doubt who is at fault or if a crime has been committed with 0 evidence or independent witnesses.

That’s why they recommend civil action.

Gareth79

3mo

Yes I was just pointing out that for many offences the police DO have a say in whether it goes ahead. They also have control over the effort put in. For example they say they were unable to contact the witness, we have no idea what they did. Quite likely they just sent a letter and perhaps tried to call once.

Fair_Creme_194

3mo

No they don’t, they can charge in the station if they want but then they have to take it too CPS and say we have no evidence, we have no witnesses, we have one biased person saying it wasn’t their fault and they’ll pretty much laugh at them and say not happening and all charges will be dropped.

In my experience they ring you a couple times and leave a voicemail asking you to contact them back and send a letter, they can’t just keep harassing you.

Gareth79

3mo

I'm suggesting they make actual contact with the person, for example an officer visiting a home or workplace to check that they have received the letters and whether they want to make a statement.

Regardless though, I'm sure OP will get a very decent payout from the driver's insurer at least.

Fair_Creme_194

3mo

It’s clear the person doesn’t want to go forward with it all, they can’t just harass them and turn up at their door and workplace.

They’ve said they’ve been unable to make contact, that’s end of story pretty much.

Can’t make a case from nothing like I keep saying, nothing to do with them being useless.

I don’t get why everyone’s automatically assuming OP is telling the truth either, 3 sides to every story and only one of them is the truth, for all we know the driver could be telling the truth.

PeriPeriTekken

-2

3mo

OP had a helmet cam and says there were multiple witnesses.

But tbh, even if we think he's totally making this all up, plenty of people have had their own interactions with the police and frankly it doesn't take many to know that "useless" is generous a lot of the time.

Fair_Creme_194

3mo

OP didn’t have a head cam or multiple witnesses, read the letter lmao.

P0werClean

3mo

I agree with you on this. The rider should take the driver to civil court, there is very little gain in the CPS procecuting and the defence will likely have it thrown out on a technicality anyway...

cjeam

3mo

Two witnesses

Fair_Creme_194

3mo

I’m talking about the police are useless comment, there is nothing the police can do in OP’s case.

cjeam

3mo

In the poster's case I reckon they could use their professional curiosity and skepticism a bit more. I thought you were referring to the incident described in the comment you were replying to though, where there were two witnesses.

Fair_Creme_194

3mo

Skepticism and curiosity doesn’t make CPS take a case to court.

Everyone’s assuming OP is automatically not at fault, that could not be the case.

ericthehoverbee

3mo

"There were multiple witnesses at the scene - which the police attended - statements were taken"

Fair_Creme_194

3mo

Have you read the letter or you just going off what OP said, Jesus Christ.

“There was potentially a independent witness”

But they couldn’t contact them, it’s in black and white bud.

evc-automatron

3mo

The letter is just whatever they want to say to drop it. I've dealt with the exact same police force for a traffic incident, they will do everything they can to pass it off so that they can close things while putting in minimum effort. They're probably very stretched and under resources rather than evil or lazy, but I wouldn't be blindly backing them like you are.

P0werClean

3mo

This is the way.

Historical_Yogurt_31

3mo

They’d taken statements at the scene and I had the Garmin running that would disprove the drivers statement so I don’t agree with your sentiment.

Whippet79

3mo

it's possible but highly unlikley they would have taken formal statments at the scene given the reference to them thinking the injuries were minor initially. Notes and contacts details likely but as per my other comment that doesn't translate into willing witnesses for court proceedings.
Out of interest, what evidence so you think the Garmin can provide?
As per W4llyb4lls comment - the police are horrifically underfunded and overworked these days so mistakes do happen so worth checking in with them.

Tripodbilly

3mo

I was ran over on that road in 2001 🤣 by a little old lady

Matt_Horton

3mo

do the police know about that evidence? if not, tell them!

Repeat_after_me__

3mo

Excuse me officers, she blatantly admits that the obstacle she enters was not clear right? right?

Responsible-Walrus-5

3mo

It’s such a joke! “Yeah, she says she totally saw you, but decided to pull out anyway, lolz, anyway CBA to take statements so bye”

sideone

3mo

Speak to these guys

https://c-ams.co.uk/

Historical_Yogurt_31

3mo

Thank you for your reply. Luckily I am a member of British Cycling so they are sorting the civil claim, but I’ll be honest, I’d rather not see a penny if drivers like this are criminally prosecuted.

W4llyb4lls

3mo

Not much consolation, but British Cycling’s solicitors (Leigh Day in my case) dealt with my claim, and they were excellent throughout.

CharmingAd478

3mo

Judging by this reply, I assume you’re going to claim through tort for your loss caused by the injuries, which was going to be my suggestion.

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3mo

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3mo

j_small3

3mo

I go to the local uni there and I know exactly where that is. I’ve been fed up with the close calls recently and invested in Cycliq front and rear cameras. Cost me about £400. I’ve been on one ride so far and had 2 close passes. Not the worst I’ve ever experienced but definitely uncomfortably close and completely unnecessary. Reported them on West Midlands police portal and both drivers got a course or a fine and points within a week. I don’t know why I didn’t do it sooner.

Mactonex

3mo

Were you on your way to or from work? Are you a member of a union? If so, speak to your rep as many unions offer free legal services for accidents which occur on your way to or from work.

Plodderic

3mo

I’m really sorry this has happened to you.

You need to make a personal injury claim on a conditional fee agreement (no win no fee). Look up a decent claimant personal injury law firm on legal500 (it’s a bit of a muchness between the highest tiers usually and anyone ranked should be ok) rather than relying on adverts.

Limitation period to bring a personal injury claim is very short so you need to get on it- if you spend another year banging your head against a brick wall with the police (and they don’t want to know, and will drag their feet) then you risk being out of time to make a civil claim.

Gazhammer

3mo

I know that roundabout and the drivers explanation in the letter makes no sense, I've used it hundreds of times and never been impeded on it because it's reasonably spaced between exits. She just didn't see you and pulled out. I'm sorry it happened.

Responsible-Walrus-5

3mo

I don’t know the roundabout, but agree it’s most likely she didn’t see him and pulled out. If you were ‘impeded’ so badly in fast moving traffic that causes this kind of crash, then there wasn’t a gap or sufficient space anyway!

monkeywrench83

3mo

I think you need to speak to a lawyer. All this is saying is they were not able to contact the witness and there fore could not press charges.

To get financial restitution its time to contact a lawyer. Be warned this takes about three years.

Ive had to friends go through this. He went to court and won. This was a at work injury where he was given insufficient ppe and got his armed scarred by hazardous materials. Took 3 years. He only went to court because s he was fired because he got injured. He would never of thought of suing if the company just looked after him after he got hurt. They went from having an employee which they head hunted to getting sued. Just because they are shit bags.

My other friend was hit by a van driving the wrong way on a one way road. This case is still ongoing. He's been told that the legal team of the defence's standard practice is to delay everything as long as possible. This way the insurance company gets to hold on to the money for longer and some people just give up or die. He was hit about 3 and a half years ago.

Whippet79

3mo

Sadly there is a difference between people witnessing something and them willing to be witnesses. As a former police officer, the amount of witnesses that don't want to actually go through with providing a formal statement and potentially having to attend court was very disheartening. TBH if they have had any experience of the shambles of a court system we have now, I wouldn't blame them. I would however give them the office a call and ensure that no one has dropped the ball on this one in regards to the witnesses. Errors are unlikely but not unheard of. However if it is no independent witness or CCTV / dashcam, there is very little that can be done about it from a criminal point of view. That doesn't however preclude you from civil action where the burden of proof is much lower but in an absence of evidence you might struggle there to. It's worth trying though - see below comment. [EDIT - typos and ref to comment in thread]

beefygravy

3mo

So for the civil case, if A crashes into B and says it was B's fault, and B's made statements saying the same thing but it was actually C's fault, isn't it then down to B and their insurance to track down C, otherwise it becomes an at-fault claim for B? And then B could try claim from the motor insurance bureau, but their insurance would still have to payout to A. (I am not a lawyer)

Whippet79

3mo

I don't have any knowledge around civil motoring claims but it's a good point. Certainly worth the OP trying.

EconomicsHelpful473

3mo

If you have home insurance, check if you have legal advice cover from your insurer.

ComplexOccam

3mo

If this is 6 months on it’s going to fall perilously close to outside a timeframe of the police bringing charges to the driver so you could well be SOL.

Really sorry for you on this OP.

itsapotatosalad

3mo

I mean, they literally describe in their letter how the car was in the wrong? The car driver thought they had room/time and pulled out but didn’t so stopped right in the cyclists path. That puts the car at fault by their own description? Push back, complain I think to the police commission and ask for it to be reviewed officially.

Competitive_Code_254

3mo

Sad to see this.

Similar happened to me. It was busy (pedestrians and other motorists) and witnesses gave details.

Driver was unlicensed and only prosecuted for that.

When I summoned the courage to ask police why driver hadn't been prosecuted for anything like dangerous driving they claimed no CCTV and no witnesses. Apparently driver had contradicted my statement.

I think my case should have been so easy to get evidence for with a modicum of effort. My takeaway was that police barely don't care about cyclists.

Wineandbikes

3mo

Prospects of a satisfactory outcome are slim, unfortunately.

My ‘slight’ (according to the report) injuries required me to have extensive shoulder surgery, 6 weeks immobilisation & 3 months agonising rehab. The shoulder will never be right.

The other infuriating element is that another cyclist who witnessed the incident is not considered an independent witness (even though I barely knew them). Apparently we are all considered to be from the same ‘hive’.

My sympathies.

darlo0161

3mo

We investigated ourselves and found no wrong doing.

zombiezero222

3mo

That’s absolutely bullshit from the police. It doesn’t matter if this mysterious other vehicle inconveniences her and causes her to brake. She is clearly at fault. It’s up to her enter and negotiate the roundabout safely for her and other users.

I’ve no doubt the police talked any witnesses out of making formal statements as they couldn’t be bothered.

I don’t expect anything better.

Chopstickchuck99

3mo

Can we get this to Jeremy vine ?

avoidtheworm

3mo

Have you, registered your claim in the Motors Insurers Bureau? http://mib.org.uk/

It won't fix your vertebrae, but you can use it to get some money from the government.

dysonology

3mo

There used to be a thing called the motor insurers bureau... don't know if it still exists, but it allows you to basically take a civil case to the gov, who pay compensation out of a specially designated pot. (Found em, here's the link) - I got knocked off my bike and broke my elbow, they helped me, though I needed a solicitor as intermediary at the time.

[edit: typo]

Bonnle

3mo

The British way of saying "fuck you"

sjpllyon

3mo

Something that absolutely baffles me about this country is that we are one of the surveillanced countries in the world but yet whenever a crime occurs suddenly there are not CCTV cameras or any video evidence of it.

Sussex-Ryder

3mo

Sorry about your crash. Our Police services are inept across the country.

GopnikOli

3mo

I also have a fractured L2, it’s been a year and a half and it’s still a cause of pain for me, good luck

rob3342421

3mo

Jeez, have they not heard of grammar; would a new paragraph be so bad?!

Sorry to hear about how your life has changed, I’d personally take them to small claims court and take it from there

Did you get any video or did anyone around have a dash cam, do you know any of the witnesses names, anything you can use to prove what happened that day?

roufnjerry

3mo

Take the driver to court - you will hopefully get legal aid

Civil-Fly13

3mo

Well, the police are only for penal action, you need to take civil action.
you need a lawyer!

speedyundeadhittite

3mo

What a joke!

Golthobert

3mo

You need a Lawyer. He should request the names of all the officers who attended and copies of their notes and all reports that this incident created. The names and addresses of all the witnesses and copies of their statements. Any dashcam footage, radio communication or satellite location data of the vehicle or occupants. Driver insurance and accident record. Blood alchol level, drug swipe details, glasses prescription, purpose of the journey, etc,etc. Then go through it all with a fine tooth comb, and build your caseGood luck.

Mad_kat4

3mo

I got taken out by a car a few years back, no real lasting injuries but went to the station to report it and give a statement they did sweet F.A.

Now on a separate occasion got in a spot of bother with a dog walker where the dogs acted hostilely to me and the wife while out cycling down a national cycle way and they were surprisingly quite proactive about it although were ultimately unable to do anything about it as they had nothing to go off.

WhittingtonDog

3mo

It’s shitty but let it go and pursue the insurance money. This will probably hit them financially at renewal time

Devils_Advocate_66

3mo

For what it’s worth, I’ve been a traffic cop for a number of years now and if the evidence threshold isn’t met there’s very little we can do.

The driver may well have been 100% at fault but we don’t make conviction decisions it’s down to the CPS and there’s A LOT we have to prove for them to allow it.

I’m sorry for what happened to you and I wish you a speedy recovery.

P0werClean

3mo

I understand how you feel, as this has also happened to me. Often criminal proceedings are slow and very rarely amount to a conviction of any meaning which is what this letter stipulates. I would instruct a solicitor and take the driver to civil court for damages. Their insurance will most definately cover it and you should claim for your full wedge and future damages also.

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3mo

rememberthewatch

3mo

Law and order doesn’t exist in this country unless you host an event using publicity shots made with chat gpt

Cautious_Month_6300

3mo

Where was the damage on the car? If you’ve hit her hard enough to go over the bonnet there will be a mark. She said you hit the door. That could be what makes the difference. Did you take pictures?

ukyorkshirelouis

3mo

Before or after the spinal board

Historical_Yogurt_31

3mo

This did actually make me laugh 😂

Cautious_Month_6300

3mo

lol.i meant were pictures taken.im sure police take evidence.if one person says door and the other person says bonnet,someone’s lying.if you hit the door I’d say it’s avoidable, but if you hit the bonnet I think they pulled out too quick for you to stop

sid_the_sloth69

3mo

If there's no evidence of a crime what can they do? They mention not having any witness statements or footage of the event.

Impressive-Trust-558

3mo

The grammar in that letter is embarrassing for a child, let alone a fully grown adult police officer.

Judas2Ad

3mo

ACAB

itsyaboi117

-6

3mo

A well thought out response by the police stating the evidence they had and what they had to go on.

Unfortunate but that’s life.

tizzleduzzle

-1

3mo

Sounds fair people they interviewed probably are not interested in being a witness in court nothing they can do about that and a 1v1 is he said she said maybe if you could find witnesses that are willing to help you might help not sure how The UK works.

oxotower

3mo

do you write letters for Warwickshire police as well as reddit comments?

tizzleduzzle

3mo

I’m from Australia just an outside view seems fair to me

smh_username_taken

3mo

Honestly with spelling etc this bad I would suspect this is a fake letter, I have a hard time believing that this is official communication

Gareth79

3mo

It's quite standard for a police letter for a routine matter. I think it's a combination of a brain dump from reading the case, combined with template wording from their head, and pseudo-official wording.

Many serving police officers would have left school with few qualifications, done various jobs and then joined the police and learned these things by copying and observation.

It's probably disappointing for people who are living the effects of a serious incident to get a letter which in itself demonstrates the lack of attention to the case. (I do appreciate that police are under immense workload though, and the officer may have only had a few minutes to bash that out)

Historical_Yogurt_31

3mo

It’s honestly a genuine letter, I hadn’t even spotted the spelling mistakes.

Norbert_Thing

3mo

Be thankful you didn’t get executed! Ungrateful roadhog! 🤬🤬🤬

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3mo

Historical_Yogurt_31

3mo

It’s more knowing unsafe driving behaviour is being tackled, and that negligent actions have consequences. It won’t help my physical condition, but there’s also a phycological aspect to it.

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