www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/17/buenos-aires-metro-fare-increase
Buenos Aires metro fare jumps 360% amid Argentina’s harsh austerity measures | Argentina
NewsI agree with your comment, except for the network part. Yes, it’s a short network for a city its size (3M inhabitants) but keep in mind that Greater Buenos Aires (14M inhabitants) has a huge electric commuter trains network (+200 km) unlike other Latin American cities that built their metro system from scratch more recently and have a larger network (but almost unexistent commuter trains).
The system needs to improve so the subte (metro) has a better integration with the commuter trains network. Obviously a larger network should be built, but considering the large commuter train network it doesn’t need to be a lot larger.
Buenos Aires has a good commuter rail system but it is not a replacement for metro. Moving from suburb to suburb radially always requires buses for example. Which means waiting for who knows how long in the suburbs. There are no bus schedules. It's no wonder that the suburbs are full of people with cars.
Yeah, I agree with you. The bus network is pretty big and efficient, though. I’ve read it’s the largest in Latin America.
The city needs to double its subway network and enhance commuter trains (more frequencies) so they work more like the metro
There are four economies in the world. Developing, developed, Japan, and Argentina
- Murray Rothbard
Heard that quote in a video about the Argentine economy. It's a complete trainwreck.
Back in the day, cities would protest raising the fare by a nickel.
This is going to get ugly.
And now they have hyperinflation at 289% annually so
Wait but the neo-libs on reddit were telling me Milei fixed everything.
Under Milei, inflation has finally started dropping. It’ll take years to determine the efficacy of his policies properly but most reputed economists are in agreement his reforms are necessary because Argentina is in a pretty unprecedented situation economically.
Wow reputed economists agree that we need to cut social services to combat inflation? That's new!
If this current trend continues those social services are going to cease to exist and the pension funds will be worthless. I don’t know how it has to be explained that Argentina is at the precipice of disaster. Their poverty is rising exponentially because their money is worth less and less. If you care about the poor, you should want economic reforms to stabilize the currency
If you care about the working class, you should want cutting social services? Is this the way to combat inflation? Cutting basic social services?
Hmmmmmmm
Edit: Also the fare jumping 360% is pretty serious inflation
Umm well yes typically the way you cut inflation is by reducing the amount of money in circulation, hence why in the US and Europe, central banks raise interest rates to discourage spending.
The working class is going to have to ensure some temporary pain if they want long term solvency for their social programs. There is no way around that. Those programs will not continue to exist in their current state. And to be frank, people like you that can only see short term are exactly why Argentina is in the position it’s in.
Umm well yes typically the way you cut inflation is by reducing the amount of money in circulation, hence why in the US and Europe, central banks raise interest rates to discourage spending.
Yes the way you cut inflation is raising inflation by cutting public services. Raising interest rates = cutting transit funding.
The working class is going to have to ensure some temporary pain if they want long term solvency for their social programs. There is no way around that. Those programs will not continue to exist in their current state.
Yes the working class are the first to get screwed over in our capitalist system.
And to be frank, people like you that can only see short term are exactly why Argentina is in the position it’s in.
Austerity measures by cutting social services is the long term strategy of how capitalism deals with inflation and government debt. It is the long term assessment, frankly
1.) in a traditional case of inflation, where it’s at 5-15%, sure - stick to interest rates. Argentina is hitting 289% annualized. You have to be able to acknowledge that the situation there is pretty extreme and normal policies aren’t going to cut it right…?
2.) it’s certainly not just the working class. Everyone is going through growing pains right now.
Well inflation is actually dropping.
Obviously no one said he will fix everything immediately. That is an extremely lazy straw man.
I think there's some confusion about what neoliberalism is.
I honestly think people believe it means “liberal democrats who exist after the year 2000”
It's "anything that's not socialism" according to Reddit.
Not just here. The wikipedia entry notes that it’s commonly undefined, overly broad, intentionally mischaracterized and used pejoratively, even by those who would seem to align closely with its established tenets.
Doing nothing was working great for Argentina.
Reddit moment
Nobody ever said it was fixed. It usualy takes 18-24 months to get inflation out of the system with shock therapy.
Instead of making thins up you should read about economics and the history of it.
It's actually just keeping up with inflation.
raising the fare by a nickel.
When he got there the conductor told him, "One more nickel" ...
Charlie couldn't get off of the train.
But did he ever return, no he never returned,
And his fate is still unlearned;
He may ride forever 'neath the streets of Boston,
He's the man who never returned.
Nickel
Which in those days had BUMBLEBEES on 'em! Gimme five bees for a quarter you'd say!
Can anyone at all afford to get in transit any more? A nearly fourfold jump is no joke.
"Austerity" is a weird word for "Argentinia ran out of money a long time ago"...
Many times over in fact. How many times has Argentina defaulted on their loans? Four?
It is one of the hallmarks of capitalism to see the wealth generated by the working class and say we ran out of money
Empty slogans will not generate money out of thin air.
Empty slogans like saying Argentina ran out of money?
It did. See all the inflation.
Yeah that doesn't answer my question
“Argentina ran out of money” isn’t an empty slogan. If they didn’t run out of money, they wouldn’t have to take out loans and/or would’ve been able to pay them off.
Spend like there's no tomorrow, while also not collecting reasonable taxes
Why did capitalism do this?
The state is an important part of capitalism to enforce private property rights. The Argentine junta used the state to prop up capitalism in Argentina and snuff out left opposition
hyperinflation at 289% annually
I hate to be that guy but…I’m not really sure what Argentina is supposed to do. Their current system is just not sustainable from the bottom up. Something has to give, and their state subsidies and bloat are a massive part of this equation
I hate to be that guy but…I’m not really sure what Argentina is supposed to do
They need to do the r/transit approved decision: which is cut transit funding, among other basic social services. Transit funding is definitely bloat!
Unironically, cutting transit funding can work, if you cut funding for road expansions, too. If we had a free market, we’d have more private rail and dense building since it makes the most money-sense and it’s the way cities have always been built, even when the world was way poorer.
That said, I’d rather rail receive big subsidies because of the good it provides and how much more eco friendly it is. As opposed to roads getting huge subsidies.
So yeah, could help for inflation and making m transit system more efficient in general.
Unironically, cutting transit funding can work,
Yes during our ongoing global climate crisis and cutting an essential social service would work.
If we had a free market, we’d have more private rail and dense building since it makes the most money-sense and it’s the way cities have always been built, even when the world was way poorer.
Ah yes, when the railroads had large sway over the government. THe "free market" at work.
So yeah, could help for inflation and making m transit system more efficient in general.
Help inflation by having substantial inflation of the price of transit and make the transit system atrophy
That was a good time when railroads dominated
It was, rates were high for farmers, prompting antitrust legislation and federal oversight, they colluded with the government to snuff out strikes.
Truly a good time for all
Its not austerity its shock therapy. Go back to Economics 101.
It's almost like electing an an-cap has the expected consequences...
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Yeah I've been living in Argentina for a year. There's a lot more to this story:
The metro price for the past year has always stayed around 0.10 US$ until now (in which it is 0.50$). It will increase to about 0.65 US$ in August. The article mentions different conversions because there are 2 conversion rates but that's a messed-up story for another time.
The price is still much better than in Brazil where in most cities the fare for metro and buses is around 1 US$.
In February the bus fares (federally controlled by the alt-right party) increased by 300% to their current price of about 0.30$.
With an agreement with the city's centrist government the city agreed to raise the metro fares to "match" the bus fares in April.
This was delayed by one month because the mandatory public hearing could not connect to the internet and so was declared invalid.
Unlike what the article says, this does not affect suburban commuters that much as the commuter trains are still the cheapest part of the public transport system starting at 0.20$ fares.
The metro...is bad, kind of. The headways are about 4 min but I got delayed yesterday by 15min when a train almost got stuck in the tunnel, and a few weeks ago a train did get stuck in the tunnel and people had to climb out and walk through the tunnel. No extension projects or new engines either, it's actually a very small network for a city of its size (57 km for 13 million people). The only thing I will miss about it is having free wifi for many of the tracks.