I’ve now bought a souped-up MacBook Pro, using both Ableton and Logic. And I’m a happier man!
Confession: I’m giving up on my MPC One (yes, it is a synth and drum machine). Why? Because it’s user-unfriendly and I misguidedly thought I’d use it to go DAWless…big mistake
i appreciate that they circled the mpc one, now i know what it looks like
I was confused because there's so many synths and keyboards and one is labeled moge so idk
I think it’s spelt moug
Idk Im pretty sure there’s a w somewhere in it 🤔
Ah right! Yes. Mewg :D
No it’s memg but they turned the M upside down to set it to wumbo
Nope it's a boow
I thought it was short for moogle, kupo!
Especially with the white highlighter in an all white room
It's a photo op.
Pretty sure I've seen this guy's setup several times now
I for one appreciate people knocking “Big Sampler” down a notch. The mpc’s are in fact user unfriendly. They have a lot of potential. However it’s basically a daw, but instead of improving the interface somehow with hardware, they make it worse with a small touchscreen.
When people go DAW-less, it usually involves what is basically a DAW in a box (MPC). You have to spend a lot of money to get the same functionality of a DAW, but without the normal computer hardware.
repost my comment:
The "DAW in a box" thing isn't even the issue. Both Maschine + and the Force are also "DAW in a box", they do not suffer from the MPC gross lack of thought put into the UI.
I wish the MPC was actually a "DAW in a box", A "DAW in a box" would let me automate return/submix/master tracks. That MPC does not.
I can do all sorts of automation with the newer MPC models.
You can get an MPC on your PC
Tried MPC Beats. Overcomplicates the situation and might as well just use Ableton for less CPU.
Yup agreed
I can do all sorts of automation with the newer MPC models.
You can't automate effects placed on return, submix or master tracks on these MPC, without having to plug the MIDI DIN OUT into the MIDI DIN IN and setup some MIDI learn crap in between (madness).
You can do that on the Force without any stupid trick.
I expect a DAW to allow any track automation, clearly not the case on the MPC series, hardware or even software.
You can expect a car to have a built-in cooler and champagne glasses because you've seen a Bentley but that doesn't make your Honda any less of a car
I think the better analogy is a golf cart with a blackberry on it
i had an mpc live 2, and it was hit or miss for me, with being generally clunky to use overall. i switched it out for a force, and even though its basically the same software, it is way more thought out and miles ahead for actually making complete arrangements. i currently have it boxed, but im keeping it.
i currently have it boxed,
DAW in the box in the box:)
i currently have it boxed,
DAW in the box in the box:)
"DAW in the box in the box" comment in a box :)
DAW in a Box is in the eye of the beholder
I can only read DAW in a box and listen to Justin Timberlake singing d**k in a box 😂
Well now I will never be able to not do the same
Here let me help…I’m the DAW in the box, buried in your shit. Won’t you come and save me?
That’s interesting, I had assumed that the Force was basically the same as the One but with more physical controls. Is the software different?
A friend of mine raves about his Force and it’s basically replaced Ableton for him.
I use the MPC 4000 to control all synth and workstations in my studio. Once the song track is totally complete, I turn on my computer and use Logic Pro X as a recording and mixing machine only. After taking sound levels , I hit one button on the MPC 4000 or MPC X SE ( whichever is used for sequencing) and the playback is recorded in one take. Once the play back is recorded , I start mixing only in the DAW and add vocals. I never really got into creating in the computer by cut and paste. And I started writing songs before plugins existed. The MPCX SE has enough midi options to run a full room like the MPC 4000. It’s definitely a learning process.
This is kind of what I aspired to when I stopped using my MacBook as a DAW. It’s a ‘hybrid’ approach and I can see it would work for some (depending on genre etc) but I’ve accepted now it’s not for me.
An MPC is just a different way to make sound and music. Like any instrument, if you’re good at it and learn the ins-and-outs you’ll create something cool and enjoy the unique workflow that it has. The things I make on my MPC vs logic are different but that’s the point to me. Depends on what you’re making too - to each’s own
I can think of at least a half dozen devices that would take the place of a DAW and cost less than $600.
The appeal to going dawless to me is to get away from the mouse and keyboard which are terribley unmusical and counterintuitive for me. I am great with computers but I grew up learning music on electric stringed instruments so taking my hand off an instrument to move a mouse kills it for me.
This. But daw is there if I want more. My dream is for Spitfire or someone to team up with a hardware manufacturer and produce a dedicated rompler. Yes I know NI went that way once and aborted and yes there's been standalone vst hosts but I'm talking DEDICATED. Then I would have little need for DAW on a daily basis. Yep I own a push 3s which I thought would be a nice halfway house. I'm likely to sell it tbh. If I'm to be constricted by gear I'd rather just stick to my digitakt and digitone
You sir, hit the nail squarely on the head. Bravo, I say!
True. The long visual format of a software DAW is really ideal for long song format (and not extended grooves). The audio editing on the MPC is just awful and it’s impossible to memorise all the track names while trying to arrange a song over 3mins. It makes for uncreative track-muted extended 2 bar riffs. I’ll still use it but for nothing releasable, just pad-led sample jams for fun.
i thought this was the circlejerk sub for a moment
He thought about which title to justify this picture for a while it seems
It'll be on there
It sure as hell is heading there if not posted already
Okay.
You should replace your chair, that’s not a musician grade chair
The user experience is lacking so I bought a Sequentix Chairklon
It was $4k and won’t be here for 3 years but I’m really excited about it
LMAO. I waited 5 years for my chairklon. I mean Cirklon.
Does Teenage Engineering have one to go with the table yet?
It needs to be WOOD!
I agree. Looking for a better chair. But it’s a small space and can’t find one that would fit comfortable there. Any suggestions?
You really need to go and try some out somewhere.
Even a chair with great reviews and recommendations could simply not work for you.
I have been a member of this sub for a while and the dawless thing always baffled me. I don't understand why it's a goal and I don't really believe anyone who does it is actually releasing quality music on a regular basis. I think for many, the obsession of collecting gear and keeping up with the synthfluencers is stronger than the urge to make music.
I don't really believe anyone who does it is actually releasing quality music on a regular basis
Why does the goal have to be to release music? There's something to be said for being able to play synth music as a hobby without sitting at a computer (especially after sitting at a computer all day for work).
The goal of a hobby arguably shouldn't be to make it a profession anyway. Then you'd need a new hobby!
Exactly this for me, I want to feel like I am playing an instrument and not just on my computern Already staring at a computer screen for lwork, watching tv, or gaming, don't feel like making this hobby like that as well.
But for professional musicians that are realeasing music regularly it makes complete sense to use a DAW.
To be fair most the people making your argument aren't releasing any music either
Bro I just like jamming without having to look at a computer screen
Even though I have a DAWless setup I don't necessarily disagree. Except for this part:
I don't really believe anyone who does it is actually releasing quality music on a regular basis.
Back in the day, everything was DAWless.
I'm releasing music on a regular basis, half of which is "dawless" - though I hate that term since I have been doing music since before there was any such thing as DAWs. And to both you and the OP u/DannyTheGekko here is a full track done only on the MPC Live II, no samples, only the Plugin Synths used... and I have many more. https://on.soundcloud.com/u4N6aKQaAECaqY9G7
I like the idea of getting away a computer for a minute, but I can't imagine using multiple synths and sequencers/samplers for a single track
That said, my initial interest was sparked by chiptune, so I'm down for making a track on a single device with limitations.
You need to post this to Twitter and Instagram and tag AKAI. The more people do that and maybe AKAI will get a clue. There are real, stupid UI absurdities in that device which is a weird mix of outdated UI that fail to understand Linn's philosophy (simplicity) and some very good ideas but implemented in a bad way.
Some problems can be explained by the fact that the UI was clearly designed for the MPC X first, with 16 Qlinks, and more physical buttons to access functions, without any consideration for smaller models.
Hardware should make it easier to make music (at the cost of versatility that is). It's simply not the case with that MPC series in my book.
Of course it has never stopped anybody from making music, and this isn't TX16W level of UI nonsense. But it feels like nothing is implemented the right way.
A simple example is the step sequencer. First the steps going from bottom left to top right. LOL why? it should have been top left to bottom right.
Another example, you're on the grid mode. You want to edit notes. Why the fuck does the user has to push the main button, quit the grid mode, to access the note editing functions? The menu should be right in the grid mode itself.
Also no way to (simply) select all notes in a track. Hello AKAI?
Finally, a true step-REC is missing. Step Rec has always been the main way for me to dial in chord progressions from a MIDI keyboard...
And so on and so forth. I hate to admit it, but I'm more productive with a Roland MV1, that does all the things I've listed before, correctly, than a MPC One...
On all grooveboxes, the true UI test isn't necessary how to enter notes in the sequencer, but how easy it is to edit a sequence.
Even the touch screen is not put into good use. You have a touch screen, I expect a mixer view with faders by group of 8 (or 16) to change track volumes, do mutes,... Well AKAI says "fuck you", you're not getting that, you get some weird ass nonsense screen that certainly does not look like a mixer.
Same for must plugins or effects. don't fucking put knobs on the touch screen, put faders to change effect parameters, that way I can change 2 parameters or more at the same time with my fingers.
So there is that weird conflict between the Qlink system and the touch screen as a UI.
People say they hate touch screens, but I don't think they really hate touch screens when the touch screen is put to good use.
They hate touch screen when the touch screen is mandatory for menu diving, which is the case with the MPC Live. so you want to select a preset, you touch the preset combo box, and you scroll with the big encoder, there are folders, you push the encoder to go in a folder. But how do you get out of the folder? mandatory touch screen interaction, instead of a basic shift + encoder push?
The UI was simply not thought out thoroughly, that's all.
One day, I'll write a detailed document on Github about all these issues because they are so obvious to me that it makes me think AKAI put a random MBA in charge of the design of that device, not even a developer. Or I wish Roger Linn did that as a way to get back to O'Donnell trickery, and call it "thoughts on the MPC series". Roger Linn is well versed in UI design, after all, he created the MPC60 and 3000, the Linndrum and the Linn instrument.
edit: I love reading the MPC3000 manual, written by Linn himself, very pleasant to read, very simple, explains why things are the way they are and is a mix between a reference manual and a tutorial. Very didactic.
https://www.platinumaudiolab.com/free_stuff/manuals/Akai/akai_mpc3000_manual.pdf
And that's also where you discover that the MPC3000 could run multiple sequences at the same time, or a song and a sequence at the same time... which of course the MPC Live can't...
this made me not being on the fence for an mpc anymore
I love my mpc one - it’s very easy to learn
Either you are genius or I am stupid. I took me years to feel comfortable using it.
Probably somewhere in the middle :-) it’s pretty self explanatory after a short time . I got mine July 23 , made a shit tonne of music on it , some might even be worth listening to haha. What have you struggled with?
It’s the best thing I’ve ever bought so this guy doesn’t speak for everyone
of course. to each their own
I love it and hate it in the same time. Perhaps I will sell hardware and stick with vsti version. I recently bought some cheap chinesee pads that work really well and I am in the process of midi learning most of the functions on that thing. I will miss some qlink assignments for plugins but that about all.
song and a sequence at the same time.
how can you not run a sample of a song and a sequence at the same time? thats exactly what the MPC one does. just drop it down on the sequence or make a separate drum program to run alongside your tracks
You can't run 2 sequences at the same time on the MPC Live.
You canot run 1 sequence AND a song at the same time on the MPC Live.
I don't understand what is hard to get in what I said.
The MPC3000 can run a song (a chain of sequences) AND whatever sequence you want on top of the song, OR 2 different sequences at the same time.
The MPC Live cannot do that.
I don't understand what is hard to get in what I said
oh i thought you meant a song like a sample, not "song mode". why not just drop the WAV created from song mode and add it to the sequence? it takes 2 seconds and solves whatever problem you seem to be having
Exactly. MPCs kick ass.
Paragraph after paragraph, I’m chiming yes, yes 👏🏼 etc. Particularly the visual simplicity of Roger Linn’s original intention and the UX frustrations that stymie workflow (or even the attempt at formulating ANY workflow) at every stage. The step sequencer is some kind of cruel joke. Only bar 1 visible while bar 2 and 3 play…?! The potential is vast, the delivery pathetic. Also your point about step note entry - the creative possibilities are vast. As I mentioned elsewhere on this sub, I wish I’d never got rid of my Alesis MMT-8 because you could enter event stepwise off that and get way more creative joy than from the MPC. The Track mix and Program edit mode place different song elements - of the same Sequence - on different pads. More layout confusion. You’re correct when you say that simplicity is key. The ancient Akai S900 sampler which was then a novelty and a groundbreaker I used to trigger samples off different keys of my AX-73. And now I realise that, for me, the MPC has become the same thing: a glorified sampler triggering sounds off the pads. Which I could have triggered off plugins on a keyboard anyway. The Sampler section is all that I use now. The really sad aspect is that, with better design, this machine could have been so great - and probably far greater music written and released as a result.
100% agree with this and the original post. Going to sell my MPC Live 2 cause as cool as the capabilities are and as much as I love the connections and built in speaker, I just can’t get over UI and navigation. It just feels like everything is everywhere.
Amen brother. I made the same mistake of buying the MPC. Really powerful and really shitty to use. I’ve sold it now and have bought an 8track which I love.
Love my mpc one with my modular gear. I find the work flow very intuitive. To each their own.
Same. The only thing I could see being bothersome is the lack of an arranger. I wouldn’t say the device is “user un-friendly” either. It’s definitely been a step up for me to use as the brains of my DAWless compared to other machines I’ve used.
I switched from a Digitakt and never looked back. That was a convoluted work process that others seem to love. I didn’t connect with it at all. MPC was pretty immediate and straight forward. There’s a ton of stuff it does I still haven’t even looked into. Maybe some day.
That’s funny you say that. I also switched from a digitakt, and as much as I liked it, I found the exact same as you that the MPC had everything I needed to link things together properly in the same place.
I don’t know why the MPC gets such a bad rep. People seem to complain about how long it takes to get used to the workflow, but then praise things like the DT or the OT when those things take a college degree to understand compared to the MPC.
When you say different things and post different things to brag
Damn dude now your studio is going to feel so empty
lmao
I’ve used mpc’s for over 20 years so I could never give mine up. I mainly chop up samples though. If you’re doing more synth based music then I would recommend just using a daw and some sort of midi interface.
I’ve actually had great success using midi cc with external synths through my MPC. I think people sometimes don’t jive with the MPC workflow, then all the added bells and whistles somewhat conflicts with understanding how to use the machine the way it was intended to be used.
I just got an MPC like 6 months ago and after using it once or twice everything just clicked for me.
I’ve always had issues getting midi working with multiple synths and the mpc. I typically just record my melodies from the synths by sampling the synth thru an audio interface or mixer. I know midi would probably be a quicker workflow but I have issues getting the same sound when I go back a week later to play the beat back.
Otherwise, I love the mpc workflow. That’s why I’ve stuck with it for so long.
It's funny to me that people will call out the MPC for its unfriendly interface, but happily praise Ableton or Logic...
On Logic you want to select all note in a track? you do Ctrl+A.
On a MPC One... you have to push main button, then click on a pen icon, then click on "delete all notes" menu, because what the fuck, then delete all notes, then press undo, then all notes are selected...
which one is unfriendlier?
6 years that we've been telling AKAI this is nuts. AKAI answers with more paid plugins.
It's just a personal thing. Ableton drives me crazy, MPC drives you crazy. It's not one thing, it's the whole of it. Fine.
They're both unfriendly, coming from Cubase which seems the most logical way to make music to me.
There are much easier ways to select all notes in a track on MPC..... Click the drag to select button, then select all of the notes by drawing around them, the piano roll will scroll to the left or right as you drag.
Once selected you can easily delete them all by hitting the "cut" button on-screen. Easy as pie.....
It sounds like you never really got very far in using the newer MPCs.
There are much easier ways to select all notes in a track on MPC..... Click the drag to select button, then select all of the notes by drawing around them, the piano roll will scroll to the left or right as you drag.
LOL, what if your track is 50 bar long? 100 bar long? Do you really think the MPC screen is going to display those 50 bars so you can select all notes on the screen at the same time?
It sounds like you never really got very far in using the newer MPCs.
Seems like you've never actually made a complete track with yours, just 1 bar beats...
Stop judging people when you don't even understand the problem at first place.
I've been playing instruments for 30 years. And alive for 39.
I stand by my comment. It's easy to select all notes on an MPC and there are multiple ways to do it.
Facts aren't really debatable.
Also as for insults go, I never insulted you, yet you come at me with an insult right off the bat there. Cool. Good for you buddy.
I'm sure you'll get far in life!
Rightly so. At least Ableton is way more consistent and generally better designed. Comparing Push with MPC is like night and day. Now comparison really. MPC however really sounds great and have great tools for creating drum loops. Also the plugins are superb (but so the Abloeton's)
Logic has a super intuitive interface for composing music, you just drag the notes and sounds you want where you want
you're right man, that thing is trash. I'll give you $50 and ship you an empty box with a return label to take it off your hands.
I had an MPC Live for a while and couldn’t get on with it. I ended up selling it and just going back to Ableton too. Lately, I have build a small modular collection including a DFAM, Mother 32, some Mutable Instruments stuff, Minibrute 2, and, probably most importantly, an Intellijel Metropolix sequencer. It has been fun to start some ideas out of the box with that, my prophet 10, guitar, and bass, then record it all in and start editing/mixing/further developing. It’s hard to know what gear is going to inspire you, but I do find that it’s hard to “go back” from how convenient Ableton is. I’ve used it since 2007/8 and I’ve tried just about every DAW… Ableton is just amazing for writing and generating ideas.
Sounds like you have a good setup there. I am a long time Ableton and Logic user. I actually teach musicians and students how to use the software and the idea of getting the MPC One was to get away from that as a creative release for my own stuff (as well as client work). But it’s just resulted in frustration. I’ll probably be selling it like you too.
I will say, you slept on unquestionably the best standalone production device from Akai (and in general) with the Force. I have a Live 2 and the workflow, capability, and overall stability of the Force is leaps and bounds above the MPC line. It's my favorite electronic instrument I own and has been for several years now. It's basically Ableton in a box, but I actually feel it's better than the Push 3. No groovebox will ever do what Ableton does, but I'll be damned if it ain't close.
I won’t rule out the Force. But I’ll demo it thoroughly before I fork out for it. In the meantime I’ll use Ableton with the a basic M-Audio workstation and record live overdubs on the Tascam DP32 (which is better than a DAW for more spontaneous performance).
Just be aware that The learning curve on Force is pretty steep. Some Ableton and MPC experience will help you, but it takes a while to really get the most out of it. But once you really know your way around it's a dream machine
Thanks for this insight!
Didn't you say, you wanted to replace the GAIA as well?
Yep - same studio, same photo, same dilemma.
I did the same just about a week ago now. Bought an Akai Force first, then sold the MPC One just last week. I'm still not using the Force all that much yet but it was immediately clear that its UI / UX / OS just gels so much better with how i tend to approach the recording process.
Background/Disclaimer: I am one of those guys holding onto approximately 35 keyboards at the moment (down from 40 or so just a year ago!) and from 15 ~ 20 grooveboxes / drum machines who justifies this with rhetoric like "I just prefer hardware", lol; for now i'm just trying to get it back down to maybe 9 or 10 synths/samplers/workstations and maybe just 3 or 4 groove/drum boxes. I do use Adobe Audition for post-processing but i tend to track everything to a bevy of Zoom multitrackers (three R16's, a HD16, and an MRS1608).
While i've never owned an MPC before the MPC One i can't help but assume the current MPC line has lost the magic of what made MPC's so special, while the Force feels like everything i'd hoped and imagined an MPC would be like.
Bought an Akai Force first,
I love the Force, I tried it, a friend has one.
I'm just simply not willing to give InMusic more money, that's why I'm not getting one, but good for you.
The Force is the most capable standalone sequencer on the market and it ain't even close. It puts my Live 2 to shame
I’ve been using the MPC Key 61 for a while and am ready to switch things up. It’s great for putting music together, but it definitely has its limits.
ok
You coulda just used “gear p0rn” flair instead of talking about the MPC. 😆 Great setup!
In terms of the content I actually create, I could stick with just the RD-2000 and MacBook Pro with Logic and recovery much the same result if I’m totally honest.
I'm on the opposite path. I started using Ableton back when they were at version 3, and I very quickly wound up with my MPC60mkII gathering dust in the corner. Now Ableton 11 gathers digital dust while I happily bang out beats on the couch with my MPC Live.
I'll still do some post proccesssing in Ableton from time to time, but I think my days using the computer as a creative workspace are officially over. The MPC just feels like an instrument to me.
That said the UI is Crazy Town! Definatly not for everyone. Akai, if you ever need UI/workflow solutions hit me up!
It’s very unfriendly. But it’s super powerful. It can sound fugn amazing. It can sound like an ultra phatt synth and it’s an amazing sound design tool if you dig in.
I’ve just changed to keep it simple and now I don’t touch 80 percent of it’s “features” and it still does the job and gets me using the computer less when I’m digging for ideas.
Dawless isn’t possible for me. But using a lot less computer is so important for me.
Yes. The learning curve was brutal, and I almost sold it a dozen times. for me it’s either this or a computer and nothing else really competes.
That said - They should redo their whole interface and OS and make it simpler and not so bloated and full of shit
As a 50 yo that’s been using an MPC2000XL since 1999…I feel like I’m out of place amongst the young folks in this sub. I’ll just take my SCSI Zip disks and ride off into the sunset. 🪦
I’m a 55 year old and also still have my old Zip disks and drive 😆. Can’t bring myself to throw them away!
MPC is not an alternative to a daw as there is no proper arrangement flow, just these blocks of fixed patterns and some mad song mode which is possibly the least intuitive way to put a full track together I’ve ever used.
Polyrhythms, hey Akai, these things exist, why chain me to a pattern length that’s fixed to multiples of 4? I’ve just got the Digitakt 2 mainly to program polyrhythmic sequences on the MPC synths because that is seemingly impossible otherwise.
Oh, add in the infuriating crashes because they’re forcing an ageing cpu to do loads of stuff it can’t handle.
Akai are dropping the ball hard by continuing down this path and not listening to the end users. They need to decide if they want a box for trap producers to make the same beats from the same sample packs as everyone else or make a machine for producing all types of music.
They’ve found their revenue stream, in machine purchases of trap sample packs to SoundCloud trap producers, they don’t care about innovation whatsoever and will continue this way until that revenue stream dries up.
I agree. A cursory glance at YouTube’s MPC One search will show you lots of bedroom producers generally just cue-ing 2 bar Track mute riffs (nothing against this, but…). Or lengthy ‘how-to’ clips which reinforce how utterly f*****d up every workflow becomes while trying to extend a song beyond 4 bars. Also re: revenue stream, is it an exaggeration to say that the machine and Akai’s belligerence has led to lots of very sterile released trap/hip hop/EDM music that sounds, errr, just like an MPC? Certainly. Note repeat 32nd hi hat cliches anyone? I’d wanted to sell this frustrating metal box but finally got a very basic ‘sampler-only’ workflow going. Two pads, Bank A and B just triggering audio samples I’d treated as audio files. I could never release anything on it. And I’m certainly not going to fork out for more audio outs…But I suppose it’s a diversion from Logic and the Tascam DP32 (which is a superb piece of kit and I use all the time for client work).
Would you consider a deluge? Have you looked into it? It's a about as inuitive as I have found, personally.
Maybe Drambo on an ipad would be your thing. It can sequence all your gear plus its an amazing modular groovebox and feels kinda hardwarey
I made an album using a combo of gear and the only track I made with the MPC Live 2 is the most popular track by far. I’m keeping mine 🙂 I also have the MPC X.
I love the FX, I love the tactile nature, and especially the portability of my Live 2 for performances. The hardest part is when you accidentally fuck up a program by messing with sample chops but that can be fixed by creating programs from a sample with the “pad parameters” option. The automation could be easier to work with too; I don’t like step-based automation (prefer curves) but you can record into automation lanes by recording knob tweaks in real time so it’s not a big issue for me.
I've come across so many interviews with electronic music pioneers where they mention computers/DAWs and describe how happy they were that things became way less cumbersome. Reading Eno wax poetic about computer recording technology made me find a happy middle ground where my rig is very hands on but still sequenced by Ableton. "DAW-less" is kind of the hip thing right now and I bet there's loads of people who would find they're happier if they reintegrated their computer back into their setup.
Who cares
Curious what part user-friendly. I find the MPC to be very intuitive, especially the MPC one, which has face buttons for things like the Sequencer and Program Edit.
It's especially useful for controlling external synths imo.
Same tried dawless but had more fun with a cheap computer.
The Ableton Push 3 allows you to switch between DAW and DAWless pretty easily. Maybe look into that. Great setup!
This is what I would recommend as well, for people who want both options at their fingertips in an integrated fashion.
Ableton with Push feels like dawles and daw in the same time. Best experience of any hardware tbh
Same. I had a Live II and thankfully I had 45 days to return it to GC. Got the Moog semi modular units and I use them with Ableton Live. Way better. More interesting.
Going DAWless
Realizing MPC One is a DAW
It IS a DAW. Exactly - just a smaller screen and far less touch sensitivity than a bl***dy iPad! I’m using it only as a sampler and not even bothering to use Song Mode or Track Mute anymore. Gave it a good shot.
That's why I use a 1010 Blackbox. It's not as capable but 1000x more user-friendly.
I tried one for a couple of weeks but it totally bugs out when you try to send multiple midi notes into it at the same time so it just couldn’t for my workflow. Also it’s a device that asks a lot of your time to get results out of it, I got a Digitakt and that’s one of the most intuitive pieces of hardware I’ve used yet (mk1, it rocks). Shame about the mpc because I believe it’s the best sampler out there, just kinda sucks as a setup brain.
I fucking hate that you can't send multiple midi notes into the mpc without it glitching out. Especially with how much the step sequencer sucks. How can I not use a q-link or one of the many buttons and knobs to switch pages on the step sequencer. The 404 mk2 has a better step sequencer and it was an afterthought
Yeah I bought ONE early on building my studio. Spent 20 minutes fiddling with it before realizing I absolutely hated it. Went to Ableton and never looked back.
i really love the idea of going dawless but every time i consider it i just look at the hardware and all of its limitations. In Ableton i can do whatever the hell i want.
Personally think hybrid is the perfect solution for me.
My take on this debate between complex hardware (MPC One) and DAW is that it speaks to music creators as if they are music producers / recording engineers, or those that are looking to build music in ways more similar to step by step music production, music performers who need to exist in the moment. Maybe this isn't as much an issue for creators wielding samples, or creating music as a DJ. It's a big issue for me, a stringed instrumentalist.
That is why I feel this debate is incomplete. There are some musician creators who find complex engagement with technology, be it a DAW, or a hardware device with copious menu diving, to be counter productive to the creative moment. There are people who need to engage technology without being distracted musically while in performance. I am one of those people.
Personally, when I seek out equipment, the last thing I consider is a long list of all it's potentials. I give a rats ass if it can record in 10 different file types or bit rates, or if it can wield the power of a million plug-ins.
Far more important to me is, can I engage in the tool quickly to achieve some desired results with easy/intuitive physical interaction via knobs expression pedals, or touch activation. User experience is the ultimate concern because anything that distracts me from my muse is repellent.
The value of almost all my tools is weighed chiefly on this consideration.
Does anyone else here choose gear with this mindset?
There's no confession here; you don't have to be ashamed of not clicking with a piece of gear. And worrying about going dawless is equally as silly. I hate that term personally, who cares if you're all software based, all hardware, or a hybrid of both? Not me, and not your listeners thats for sure. Make cool music the way that's inspiring for you, nuts to everything else.
Yeah man… i did the same thing but a decade ago. I bought an Mpc 1000 for like 700 on eBay or something and totally could not get any grooving on that thing. The only way i liked the samples i had was when i ran it through some heavy tube saturation, and i did have a fair amount of samples.. i was lucky to have bought it like 15 years ago, and get 5 years to really give it a try, and then sell it.. i really just didn’t like the format of making songs out of projects and the work flow just did not gel w me… i am in eurorack and the USTA is pretty great for making songs, and i do like the signal flow… i also have a Rene v2 for messing around and changing the sequences up on the fly with the “snake” patterns and remove and ad steps. It’s really good for a “freewheeling” sort of sequencing… between the two i feel like i have everything i could want..
On a separate note, you have an awesome studio environment!
I don’t like audio editing. I like computers up until that invention. Love the idea of spending $4000 on an old Roland mc 4 and using my handy digital recorder to save sessions.. Yeah use both!
Reminds me of my early Atari ST days just triggering midi for acid house tracks. We’re talking 1989 here…(I’m 54)
Getcha a few of the things on the left to go DAWless, 1000%
I tried Maschine and MPC. Happier with Ableton and a Push 2 (looking at upgrading to 3)
If you still want to look into dawless, check out the synthstrom deluge.
Love the setup
mpc 2000xl is my go to
A modern MPC is just an annoying DAW with a small screen
I use Logic too, curious if you’ve considered the MPC Studio 2 at all or if you are just not into the MPC workflow.
I have made so many records, performed so many shows, etc that I have to conclude that this is a use case error.
One of the best interfaces and UIs ever designed: Akai MPC one.
Gotta disagree with that. But accept each to their own etc etc. I find the layout: Sequence —> Track —> Program downright confusing, particularly as someone who worked with tape in earlier years.
I find the layout: Sequence —> Track —> Program downright confusing
dawless is just this with extra steps/ cables
IDK, from the top of my head - why clearing notes from the track is in sequence menu and clearing the trak is removing program as well?
Or why it always sending midi when it is receiving midi clock?
Why it records empty wavs when is slaved to midi clock?
Why there is about 4 ways to slice sample - which is THE MAIN function of this box?
Why the looper is always recording with lag which defies the purpose of looper.
Did you figured out how to edit wavs on audio track? I didn't...
Why there is almost no parameter to midi learn on keygroup program (but there is plenty on drum program) -when it is keygroup that you are more likely to play with external controller.
You really think that grid edit with 4 modes of operation (when every tablet can do pinch/zoom/pan/multi/select at the same time) is sign of good design?
Do you use step sequencer? You think it is greatly designed? Have you ever recorded melody on step sequencer? It is almost impossible.
I am really mad, because I like ALOT about the MPC live. I have mk1 for more than 5yrs now and the hardware is really great, it sounds great and plugins are top -notch.
In the same time it is full of uncooked features and plain unintuitive design choices.
I have one too and am considering selling it, far more menu diving than there needs to be and there are too many steps to do simple things
Definitely. I wrote this post after an hour of pulling my hair out trying to build a 32 bar arrangement on the thing in Song mode - not for the first time. Too much stress. Too little to show for it.
Using an MPC 2000XL, an Ensoniq ASR-10 into a Roland VS880 wasn’t all it was cracked up to be in 2000 and it still isn’t to this day. Ableton, DAWs and computers all the way for recording.
It’s user-friendly enough to build song from scratch. It belongs to you why you give up with learning mpc 🤷♂️ You just don’t need it or you don’t understand why went dawless, I think you just fall for the hype.
From my perspective going dawless with mpc one + mpk mini inspire me to make & make music more & more.
another one down
I’d need the wingspan of a NBA player while sitting on that chair 😂
The best solution to DAW in a box is the Ableton Push 3. Which allows you to change your mind on the DAWless thing whenever you feel like it. Best of both worlds.
Upvoted for Body and Soul
Yeah I had it for a while and that thing suuuucks I was so glad to get rid of it for most of what I paid
😭
Mpc is super basic. Literally once set up you only have to set source , push play/record and make a sequence. Maybe your making it difficult
Cool studio. I’m sure someone will love the MPC. Sell it. Use an iMac for my studio for so long now. Love using it. I wouldn’t use a laptop or an iMac on stage but yeah.
Yeah the One is not a good Daw in a box. It’s missing so much of what you need to not use a computer. I switched to the Force from the One and love it. I love hate relationship with making music on the computer so it’s great we have options
Got enough mixer channels?
I got an electribe thinking I could learn analog. Man was I wrong
Just curious? How long have you been using it? It took me almost a year for my work flow to reflect the amount of effort I was putting into it
I am fighting with myself. On one hand the UX is unfriendly and not fun (esp. comparing to Electron or Push). On the other hand the plugins sound really great and the drum program is super powerful - nothing comes close. Also I like it can be used with usb soundcard/mixer.
On the other hand, selling it and getting Digitakt seems like way more fun.
Where it concerns using the mpc as a dawless setup. I just sample my playing All bass on one program then repeat for the other parts. Then sequence them out before recording the separate tracks to ableton
Yes that’s the classic hybrid approach and is definitely workable. You must have a better memory than me because I tried this and lost track of part names, sequences etc. Now I’m just using it for fun (not for finished tracks) and stacking tons of my own played samples on the pads in Program Edit mode, recording and automating the triggers live. Basically not using 90% of what it can do.
I 100% see the issues raised here. But I have really loved my MPC One.
I think I am different than many people here though, in that I am pretty new to this world (and therefore maybe more easily impressed?) and very much a hobbyist musician in general.
I have a digitakt and a few synths, so the MPC has been great as the “brain” of my setup and a swiss army knife of other sounds and instruments (piano, strings, etc). It’s probably more than I even need.
But yes, LOTS of UI things are weird. For example, I think the overall concept of the step sequencer UI is fantastic, but then how you navigate it - between bars, pads, etc - is clunky and not intuitive. Setting up keygroups is bizzare, to the point where I am certain there has to be an easier way (but there probably isn’t). So yeah.
Forgive me… but doesn’t DAWLESS mean at most multitracking to a recorder?
Are you planning to sell it? I might be interested if you are
I had a similar experience. Traded my MPC One for an SP-404 mk2. Way fewer functionnalities but it is one of those studio brains that makes you feel like you're not on a computer. Sadly, the flow of the MPC One feels just like a daw, and at this point it just makes sense to use a PC.
When gatekeeping goes wrong.
Can I get it I just posted my first techno track on YouTube and SoundCloud and people are telling me to get more umph in my kicks... I could MPC for that This is my track 👇🏽 https://youtube.openinapp.co/50r6r
Can we do an MPC circlejerk sub ? I could talk shit for hours about the MPC
Yeh good idea. It’d be nice for Akai to post on it too. Maybe help them with their UX…
Want to buy my Deluge?
For someone who couldn't afford to purchase multiple gear, or even a good computer to run a DAW, MPC One is a cheap holy grail.
The idea of going DAW-less is so cringe and stupid to me.
The only reason someone wouldn't go the infinitely easier, cheaper, quicker way of making things sound great by using a DAW... is too achieve some kind of delusional / superiority complex in their head. I remind you all - there's no points up for grabs. You get no points by doing things the hard and expensive way.
I’ve had my Live2 for months and love it! But it’s mainly for me to build out the overall song and ideas. Since it pairs well with Ableton I push everything out to Ableton to really get lay it out properly. Since I make beats only, it’s a perfect tool for me since I don’t do any live instrument or vocal recording.
Why did you want to go dawless in the first place, may I ask?
I’d used an Alesis MMT-8 years ago for step sequence entry and played spontaneous midi parts. Great memories. The ability not to be clicking on a trackpad/monitor. Chaining midi parts/audio and samples on the fly is very appealing, esp as I’m a piano player. This is the attraction.
It's literally one of the most dumbed down and easily used sampler/sequencers since the inception of the product decades ago
You're either down with Akai workflow since the 90s or gonna find it hard and blame it for your impatience. It's not that it's user unfriendly as such - it's just evolved slowly but surely over 3 decades on a platform most pro sound engineers and producers know inside out. You're comparing apples with oranges by aligning it with a traditional DAW. You should be comparing it with other hardware sequencers.
I got a One after 30yrs of using S1000, S2000 and S300Xls, also bought mine to go DAWless eventually. I have outboard everything like you - it suits me fine. But I also still have Logic and Ableton. Not gonna force myself to go either way, but for me personally, it's a great feeling to rejuvenate my S3000 with a sibling as a sequencer. And the rest of it that makes it like a DAW a bit, is just a bonus.
Props for running the vaccuum round before showing off tho
Get an Octatrack. It crosses the line to openly hostile towards the user.
That's how i felt the first time I sold it. Then I bought it a second time, spent more time with it, realized its full potential and actually understood what it's capable of. I wouldn't want anything different. Are you sure you've spent enough time with it to really understand its workflow?
If the MPC ONE is “Dawless” , then using GarageBand on a MacBook is as well.
I would be more worried about all of the direct harsh UV rays from the sun pouring in through those windows above all of your gear. Direct sunlight and expensive gear are not a good mix buddy.
That's gonna be great for that Gaia you got there.......
This is true - but I have blinds so the room can be pitch black if needed. The light is good for online so the shadows don’t make me look like the grim reaper. I’d rather a brighter environment. Too many years of working in dark windowless studio environments.
(Gaia’s gone. Minifreak in its place; deffo good move)
Chair scorpion
tbf DAWless for the most part is posturing. Why sacrifice the speed and convenience of working on a DAW for no discernible benefit?
I can already tell a great deal of music gets fully completed in this room
Try a 707. Way more unfriendly UI. Lol.
I'd like to know why. I got One recently and so far i love it. But one gotta accept the specific workflow. If you can't get through that, you're screwed. Did you dump it because you didn't like the workflow, or does it actually cause trouble when you use it to control other midi gear? So far i haven't tried it with other hw, i'm still in the standalone plugins phase, but i plan to connect it to my oldschool gear eventually.
Really? I find it very intuitive and easy. Does anything and everything I've needed it to.
I love grooveboxes, my first wife is a roland mv8800, but that mpc live i had was the worst ui experience i ever had
Honestly with the limited screen and capability the Roland Verselab MV-1 is actually really easy to use when it comes to having a daw in a box the main problem is the menu dive for sounds, if they recreated this box with a screen thats larger it would be insane no joke
Go back to or get an old MPC and dump the daw forever 😂
this is a great post, lots of useful content for the rest of us. A+++