Objectively, who was better? The Dawnguard or the Harkon Vampires?
I know. You can tell with DG and DB that they had so much growth graphics wise. On the PS5 only those two DLCs have characters that don’t look horribly textured.
The water, by the harkon castel and the solstheim island, is so much more dynamic than the main game.
I still recall the very first time I paid attention to the waves crashing on the beaches on Solstheim. Also coincided with my first encounter of a Lurker that rose from the sea.
Oh wow, I don't remember seeing waves on mainland. They really nailed the "island in the middle of an ocean" vibe... Holy fuck, what's that?!
Took quite a while to uncondition myself from associating all the waves to impeding lurker attacks.
Lol installed some wave mods that do this all over Skyrim 😂 i love seeing comments like this because its like oh yeah i agree so i did a thing
Who would win: a college continuously occupied and funded by some of the most intelligent and magically skilled members of the province. Or a fort that has been at war with incredibly powerful vampires including the oldest vampire clan in Skyrim for centuries. Probably fallen in and out of use several times and has been unoccupied for an undisclosed amount of time before isran reforms the dawnguard.
Fort dawnguard isn't even close to the state of disrepair that all the other forts that dot the map are. Even the walls and defensive battlements of whiterun (a central population center and trade hub) are more rundown
Mages don't need all that defensive siege technology tbh.
I didn't mean who would win in a literal combat since I was more referring to the architecture/scale/state of the buildings.
But that's why simpler architecture is fine is how I meant it. Like it seems to be the point of making it that way.
I used a mod that spices up the Winterhold College, making it a unique place to stand out.
Nice, I use 6
Which ones?
The one I use is called “The Magical College of Winterhold”. It spiffs up the college and turns the Archmage’s quarters into a full fledged home, complete with everything you need for blacksmithing, enchanting, ingredient growing, and alchemy. Plus it gives you a nice fast travel point to the roof for quick access.
And just like that my mod list got a little bit longer
I love the way that mod makes the college actually feel magical. It has become a mainstay on my mod list.
Hey hey. I am currently on the train so I can‘t give you the exact ones. But there’s levels to it. First level is deciding on a major overall. As others mentioned „immersive College of Winterhold“ is a prominent (and also very good and performance friendly one), sadly Nexus is down rn so I can‘t check the links.
There is also „Obscure College of Winterhold“ as a prominent competitor. This might be a lil more vanilla + but it’s very beautiful mod with nice vanilla clutter and also an eating Hall aka „Mensa“ how we call it in Germany LOL.
These are both nice, but I like obscure college a little more. But I also like the other one so you can use both with „Ultimate College of Winterhold - IC & OC Patch“.
So now you have the best of both worlds college with new rooms, new systems like book library rules, flying books even, scamps from morrowind, and a few new npcs and lots of new assets like special doors and lights and whatever…
I will also recommend this one as another layer of immersion: (ah still can‘t post links LOL) so the Name is „Immersive NPCs“ or „Immersive Students of COW“ or sth. These need patches for the aforementioned overhauls but it fills the college with some more students, followers and generic dudes.
Now you have the basic setup consisting of 2 of the best Overhauls + Patch + more NPCs. But you can make it even nicer, for example with „Bibliophile Arcaneum“ or sth it’s called or an replacement for the archmage quarters.
Now I would recommend „Missing Students - Quest Expansion“ (i think the name is slightly different). This one is a real nice addition makes it really feel like it has more history and people actually do stuff and try wizard things.
Then there is „College Days“ - maybe it is even integrated in the „your own choice / at your own pace“-mod? - this one is quite nice. It adds 100000% realism where you need to pay for semesters meaning your education is getting gatekept by money 👏👏👏 true irl feel. But tbh the nice thing is for rp because you gotta leave and make da money somehow at some point or start a sidehustle of enchanting selling stuff at least.
Lastly I would recommend „spell research“ just an easy to use no clutter full compatibility mod to spend time in the library learning new spells.
Layer all this stuff with custom clothing for wizards or just some SPID Module of your choice for the college so everyone looks freshly dressed + the usual NPC Replacer of your choice and that’s it.
Massive improvement I had a playthrough where I spend like 40h alone in and around the college.
Lastly y‘all need the mod that lets the Dragonborn choose who gets to lead the college at the end of the questline. Such an important mod because the competitive environment is mentioned multiple times in vanilla dialogue and now you can decide who tf gets to be the boss of you don‘t want to (which is just stupid in 9/10 times beeing warriors stealth archers and whatever with like 2 spells)
And then there’s like 40 more little mods like the one where you can repair the bridge after the questline
Funny you mention the bridge, I think immersive college of winterhold just lets you chose an "enchantment" to make the bridge appear damaged or fully intact to outsiders basically meaning in an aesthetic way to either fix it or keep it as is to deter outsiders.
If most of the forts in Skyrim looked as good as
A bunch of fucking mages in one area and none of them consider altering the weather around the college? None of them make vibrant and lively decorations around the dull stone inside? None of them consider creating a hub of prosperous trade in the adjoining town? Yeah no, they know what they’re doing
Winterhold WAS a center of trade and even had the largest and grandest city in Skyrim.
Then there was a bad storm that eroded the ground out from under the city in a single night. The whole thing crumbled into the sea. The few buildings you see in the town are all that is left.
The college didn't fall into the sea because someone put magic in place to avoid exactly that back when the college was first built.
However, the fact that the college didn't collapse like the rest of the city was taken as evidence by most of the Nords that the college was to blame for the whole catastrophe in the first place.
Now most of Skyrim thinks the city is cursed, and probably wouldn't trust anyone from the college trying to get people to move back. Actively mucking about with the weather through magic on top of trying to lure people back would probably go over like a lead balloon.
Personally, I think the game devs just didn't want to have to put in the effort to make the largest city in Skyrim on top of also making the magic college.
It was a bit more than a bad storm, Bethesda never implemented it but they only completed half the College questline, the Dovahkiin was supposed to get an Elder Scroll and go back in time and cause the storm which destroys Winterhold.
Fuuuuck that would've been so cool. And the fact that now with cc they aren't restoring cut content loke this is just depressing.
I want somebody to make this reality so bad
Is there a source for this? This is the first I've ever heard of it.
The Magical College of Winterhold mod (I've used it on PC and PS4/5 and it's on Xbox as well) does a lot to improve the college. Repairs the bridge, removes Nordic decor in favor of clean spaces with floating candles and books flapping around the library. It also adds a number of little magical light fixtures, improves the dorms with proper beds, removes cobwebs, etc.
My only gripe is that it "improves" the Archmage's quarters in the same way that these ugly Creation houses do - miniature storage chests everywhere and it removes the big magical tree in favor of crafting stations, storage and display items. You get a staff crafting station tho 🤷♂️
On top of the above mentioned additions I really like the added ability to “study” and “train with the golem” makes it feel more functioning school like.
Agreed 👍 I wish there was a mission to fix up Winterhold and the town
I mean the Volkihar wanted to sieze control of the sun which would've plunged all of Nirn into war and the Dawnguard was trying to prevent the end of the world as we knew it so it's sort of an easy decision
No more skin cancer cases in Nirn!
No more vitamin D either!
Harkon talks about the "Dictatorship of the Sun" so there's also freedom
Uh, this is Harkon we're talking about. I wouldn't say free, more like under new management.
"Diktatur der Sonne" sounds like something a modern Nazi cult would come up with.
"There is no hope under the black sun"
“Diktatur die schwarzen sonne” maybe, ‘Diktatur die sonne’ sounds more like something from a German anarchist vampire cult to me
Sooooo, basically the same thing, gotcha
But with worse grammar
I would call you a grammar nazi, but that's a little on the nose, dontcha think? Lol
Grammar National Socialist.
Bugger
Der schwarzen sonne?
Yep
freedom for evil people and no one else is just anarcho tyranny, the objectively worst form of governance
For you. /s
Oh, you think darkness is your ally. But you merely adopted the dark; I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING!
Freedom to be killed by vampires any hour of the day
There's plenty of horkers to cover that
potion of cure disease
No sun means the most important part of the food chain was removed. Everything and everyone would eventual starve.
Yep, no sun equals no farms or crops, which equals no herbivores, which equals no food for carnivores, both of which feed humans and elves
Sounds like argonians are back in the menu, boys
And the Falmer (re)inherit the world.
That's just like, a theory, mer /jk
A GAME THEORY
That isn't quite how it works in ES. There was a period where volcanic ash blocked out the sun for like years, but the only plant affected was nirnroot. It's Magic, don't ask me to explain lol
It's Magic, don't ask me to explain lol
I will, though.
Firstly, the sun doesn't emit light in TES. It doesn't properly "emit" anything, since it's not a thing - it's an absence of thing, a hole made in the firmament by Magnus fleeing the founding of Nirn and Mundus. (Incidentally, the stars are similar holes made by lesser Et'Ada fleeing, collectively the Magna Ge; so the light can't come from there, either.)
These holes open up Mundus to things outside the plane, mainly Aetherius (the plane of magic, where Magnus fled to / what he became, based on who you ask), but it's not weird to think that these holes would also let other things in (or out, as the case may be).
So basically what I'm getting at here is that either light in TES is the same particle and/or wave as aetherian magic, or said magic produces visible light as a side effect. (Would help explain the flashy effects, but that's neither here nor there.)
The whole point of the prophecy, then, is to basically amass a large amount of power in one metaphysical / contextual space, which can then be formed into a metaphorical "lense" to "be put over the hole", basically dye-ing the incoming magic, and thus sunlight to in some way make it more amenable to vampiric life.
Frankly, the fact that other magic stays unaffected is surprising, and imo a bit of a flavour miss.
This person fucks with lore.
Even if you side with Volkihar, the questline ends the same, with Harkon dead.
I never sided with the vampires since I prefer being mortal, so I didn't know that
You should, for the experience if nothing else. The Volkihar path is significantly different from Dawnguard, and just as fun in my opinion.
The main reason you should side with Volkihar is to get Ring of the Erudite
I sided with the Dawnguard - as a Vampire. Yeah the "Volkies" are that bad imo - or I guess I was just playing a "good" (or grey) Vampire.
(You can work with them just fine with a mod that disables the vamp check, the rest is mild head canon as to why they either should accept you - I mean they reluctantly accepted working with Serana so... - or why maybe they didn't detect it on you)
So you were like Blade?
Hah, I guess. Only that I wasn't my own organization or crew - but working as a member of another. Also instead of some mumbo replacement cure my char actually occasionally drank to not go totally nuts but as I recall (been a while since I played) it was either "bottled blood" or from bad guys. The common folk were safe.
IDK loved to play such a being with a twist. Most often its "hue, give in to animal side, become evil to mortals". Instead characters like Blade or "Alucard" from Hellsing stand out more.
I’ve never sided with them because I like crossbows too much
I mean... You can get crossbows in other ways right? Don't need to join the dawnguard
You can get them if you have the expanded crossbow pack from the CC, but you never learn to craft them or get the Dwarven crossbow I'm pretty sure
True - It's obviously the Volkihar Vampires, because we all are depressed and don't want to live anyways, so let's destroy the Planet and everyone on it too 😭😭 /s
That's much nicer than what Molag Bal does to make the daughter's of cold harbor. Anyone who has a moral compas would not choose them.
Depends on how we look at it.
The dawnguard were reformed, little to no resources, no forces for an all out assault etc.
Whereas the vampires have had millenia to fortify, prepare for total war etc. They have resources, supplies etc.
The volkihar are much more equipped for their task than the dawnguard
Yeah but have you considered that the vampires are hot?
Is it though?
Dawnguard. Volikhar Castle is a depressing grey prison, and most of the vampires there are needlessly rude. Hard to pass up the Enhanced Dwarven Crossbow either.
And the Vampire's Bane AoE spell. Just me spamming it where my companion is, surrounded by Undead.
Of course, Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic.
Although I do like Vampire Lord, and those Enchanted Rings that either add a lot of Magicka for Spells or Health for Melee. Brings back Legacy of Kain vibes.
Those enchanted rings (Rings of Blood Magic) are some of the best items for mages in the game and pretty unknown.
Adding more to this, the Ring of the Eurdite's benefit is adding 100 magicika and increasing the magicka regeneration rate. But unlike the normal magicka regeneration enchantment, the ring increases magicka regeneration of the natural rate by 2% (The goal of this is to allow vampire lords to regenerate magicka in daylight, so a basic percentage increase would not do the trick). Your natural rate of magicka regeneration is normally 3%. With 200 magicka, that is 6 points per second. With 200 magicka total and the ring, the regeneration would be 10 points per second ([3% base + 2% ring] x 200 magicka = 10 points per second).
This is especially important since if you had multiple items enchanted with 100% magicka regeneration, that only stacks at the natural rate. By increasing the natural rate, the Ring makes every subsequent magicka regeneration enchantment stronger. With the dragon priest mask Morokei and 200 points of magicka (100% increase in magicka regeneration), the magicka regeneration rate would be 12 points per second. But pairing the mask with with the ring, it would be 20 points per second ([3% base + 2% ring] x 200 magicka x 2 [100% increase] mask = 20 points per second). As I understand, with a second 100% magicka regeneration enchantment on something other than the mask, your magicka regeneration would stack and be 40 points per second. A third would result in 60 points per second total. Without the ring and only 3 100% magicka regeneration enchantments, the regeneration would only be 36 points per second, so this starts to become a big difference.
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Ring_of_the_Erudite
However, I still contend that the Dawnguard Rune Axe is the best weapon in the game (without enchanting, potion, and smithing loop upgrading all of your weapons to ridiculous level. If that is considered, then nothing stands up). Especially later in the game and on higher difficulties where every dungeon is full of only draugr death lords, the Rune Axe is a huge help.
I wish you could get both of these special items as a dawnguard member. As a vampire you can "technically" get the dawnguard rune axe (there are a couple videos on youtube about it, excessive level of work to do though), but I don't think as a dawnguard member it is possible to obtain the ring.
I spent way too long learning what qasmoke was, messing with awful ps4 mods to get the ring of the erudite to appear in it and have access to it for my ultimate immortal dragonborn fantasy whatever TO NOT COMMENT ON HOW I WAS YOUR 69TH UPVOTE WOOOOOOO
Serana, when I use vampire bane next to her to kill that level 1 draugr:
You can purchase those spells as a vampire lord. What you need to do is go to Fort Dawnguard as a lord, and be equipped with several of those mass calming scrolls. You can buy spells from that schizophrenic priest once him and nearby people are calmed.
Tf am I looking at
Its almost too definitive. Plus Serana who is basically the main character of this DLC, hates Harkon. Almost no reason to side with Volkihar, unless you simply want to be evil.
If they wanna make it a bit more grey, they should make some Dawnguard members greedy people who would gladly accuse someone of vampirism just because they hate that person or wants to loot their items. And for the vamps, make some sympathetic, like for example a sick and dying alchemist who accepts vampirism so they can keep helping people long beyond their natural lifespan.
I joined Volkihar on my first playthrough cuz I thought being able to be a bat person was cool
" Plus Serana who is basically the main character of this DLC, hates Harkon. Almost no reason to side with Volkihar, unless you simply want to be evil. " You don't know that before choosing a side though. (Also you kill Harkon in the end even if you're with the Volkihar)
Yep Volikhar is a shithole and I don't want to look like a vampire lord so they get to die again.
I was a Vampire lore of the bloodline (I got it from Serana or so I forgot, but I was the same bloodline) and Volkihar and its "people" were such a shithole, I just had to side with the Dawnguard. It was the right moral choice.
I was trying to play a "good-ish" Vampire who'd also hunt vampires (Hellsing anime style lol) and thanks to a little mod who let me side with the Dawnguard despite being a vamp I could do that. Volkihar really isn't an enticing place. I say at best it becomes fancy if you use mods that overhaul the place. I think in some mod you can even let the Dawnguard take it over and guard or use the place, with their banners, etc.
The original inhabitants aren't that pleasant either. Brutish rude messy people wanting to plunge Nirn into chaos (and risk what achievements and positions my character has obtained): No thanks.
But, but- infinite speech check passing... (amulet of articulation) and who doesn't love being burned alive by the sun?
I recall the Amulet of Articulation being a Thieves Guild reward. The Ring of Erudite is pretty good for a mage build though, so Volkihar has that going for it.
Yeah if I’m a mage I’m gonna be a vampire because of the Erduite ring but to be honest I prefer being a vampire I don’t know why I just like being them
And its so unhygienic! Blood and bodies and cobwebs everywhere. Yuck.
Also like half of the vampires living in Volkihar Castle are waiting on the edge of their seats to stab each other in the back.
I think the vampires could use a little more depth, but they both were alright to me. Dawnguard was the first faction in the game that made me want to do the little side quests to get rewards. The imperial cult in MW is so rewarding for the gear and training you get, and dawnguard is kinda similar though it doesn't have as much personality (priests sneaking around in the rich man's bushes to look for ingredients for healing potions).
if your on pc id recomend playing with sarcosant and dark envoy and Vampire lord overhaul heres a picture of the new Vampire lord much more sinister and sarcosant and dark envoy powers make it a Powerhouse
Dawnguard, I absolutely love the Forts Architecture, their armor, Frost Trolls and Isran is a Badass faction leader.
Sorry I just had to lol
He's not sleeping, he's just resting his eyes!
And huskies
Did you know if you bring the Huskies to your home when kids are there they will want to keep them?
D'awww!
I wish it had quests like thieves guild and it started filling up with loads of people like the towns
Isran? You must be confused. This is Skyrim we're talking about. The Dragonborn must lead any and all factions within 5 minutes of joining the group. It's the law of the land.
honestly, the daughters of coldharbour lore and the fact that harkon is a selfish, narcissistic and abusive man makes it impossible for me to ever side with the vampires.
Yeah I wasn't expecting skyrim to be that dark tbh
New to elder scrolls lore? The world of Tamriel is built upon horrific things.
I mean you kill him either way but yeah, Dawnguard is the way to go. Besides, their version of the quest plays out cooler. Wiping out the vampires as the Dawnguard is a proper frontal assault on their castle, which, while it goes down pretty fast, is fun to do and is capped off by the Harkon boss fight. Wiping out the Dawnguard on the other hand is basically the same type of disappointment as FO4 Nuka World’s wiping out the raiders, where it’s basically like “here’s a few characters with quest markers on them, go kill them.”
yeah, ive done the vampire side once just for achievements and its overall a disappointment especially when compared to the rewards available for completing dawnguard quests. between the rune axe and the adv dwarven crossbow, im not sure which is more OP.
Being a walking dead leech doesn’t help matters.
Why are you on this sub (cuz of name)
I think we all know what type of modlist they have
Never heard of Lamae bal ?
definitely the dawn guard with the prizes, but i did a play through with the vampires and still had tons of fun
I've never done a vampire playthru, and probably never will. The first time I saw Harkon do his "Behold the power!" routine and LOL'd at his chicken wings, made it impossible to take them seriously as a faction.
Be me, immortal vampire lord Harkon.
Have the dumbest plan in existence which has a 100% chance of getting all of my race killed (I'm too lazy to go out when the sun goes down)
Oops, turns out my dumb plan won't work because my wife hid my daughter with the funny scroll I need for it to work.
Instead of looking for my daughter spend 700(!!!) years moping around in my depressing ass, half-ruined castle (which I don't even bother fixing up) enslaving random nords
Finally, probably out of boredom, I decide to look for my daughter
mfw when an organization of vampire hunters which formed two weeks ago gets to my daughter before me (who ended up being like two towns away in a really obvious cave)
mfw when my daughter (who hates my guts) works with the vampire hunters instead of me
mfw when the two-week old vampire hunter organization busts into my castle and kills everyone
mfw I give some random stranger the same ultimate power as me but I still plan on killing them anyway
I did it once, but it is basically the same as joining dawnguard with additional downsides. I didn't find the vampire lord form in any way enjoyable to use.
I don't use werewolf form much, but at least it is fun when I do.
Oddly enough I absolutely loved vampire lord form vs wherewolf form. Flight is amazing and I’m significantly more mobile vs in wherewolf form.
I just don’t become a vamp till AFTER I side with dawn guard and kill all the vampires in castle Volkihar
Idk, sprinting as a warewolf I think is the fastest way to get anywhere. I think only the dwarven horse is better because of infinite stamina.
Yeah but you can’t spam magic in werewolf form. You can keep distance and shoot damaging spells, drain health at mid range, and necromancy nearby people with vampire lord powers. You just run around and eat people as a wherewolf. Vampire lord to me is overall way better, especially early to mid game. It becomes less and less useful late game but that is an issue with werewolf form as well.
Biggest downside to me of the werewolf is that you can't turn back manually, as you're forced to sit and wait.
You basically inherit a shithole with rude savage people if you help the vamps and are risking Nirn if you at any point want to go through with the plan (on paper, not like you can put Nirn to the sword or teeth I guess). I always side with the Dawnguard, even as Vampire (mod disables vamp check).
Vampires have a very unique artifact in the entire game. Ring of erudite. It nearly doubles all your mana regeneration. The diffrence it has with other mana regen sources in the game is that, you have a base 3 points per seconds mana regen in the game at all times and it doesn't change . All the gear you acquire to regen mana basically add a multiplier to that 3. The ring turns that 3 into a 5. So now everything is multiplied by 5 instead of 3. The dawnguard has only a slightly better and much heavier version of the crossbow. Not very enticing offer.
How do you get this ring? I'm doing my first vampire playthrough and haven't come across it yet
Yes it's a random job from the guy that stays beside the chalice. He mostly gives mini quests to kill some random npc. You can force the quest to get the ring by saving BEFORE you report the completion of your task to him. After you report back he gives another quest, if that quest is not the one to get the ring of erudite. Load that save that you made and report back again untill you get the quest.
So what I'm hearing is, do the quest for that guy only until I get the ring, then wipe out all the vampires? Got it.
It’s one of the random jobs you can ask Feran Sadri for. That aspect can make it a little annoying because it could take forever to get him to give you the quest but once he does, you’ll have a really fun time. And to answer this posts’ question. Vampires for the WIN!!! I personally find everything about the Dawnguard faction to be a big snooze
I did the "best of both worlds" and joined the Dawnguard as as a Vampire, or became a Vampire after, can't recall. Yes, a vamp hunting vamp. Bit of an irony but I liked Hellsing (the animated series or TV show; also a mod lets you do it and still do their quests, as it disables the vamp check)
I default to going Dawnguard. Harkon is kind of a dork, honestly, he does that little “bobbing up and down” thing, it looks pretty silly. He’s no Laszlo Cravensworth.
I think more of us would join the vampires if, instead of a draughty island fort off the coast of Solitude, you had to take Serana to a Victorian-era manor house on Staten Island
Also I miss Guillermo
Harkon is not only a dork, but he's the laziest vampire in existence. His daughter and the scroll he needs to enact his idiotic plan are literally two towns over in a really obvious cave, and he spends a whole 700-1000 years just sitting around doing nothing, before getting other people to do it for him.
BAT!
Volkihar Vampires technically wield more power to start out, but the dawnguard offers better rewards I think. I didn't like how most quest loot from the vamps centered around upgrading my vampire lord powers, especially because I never needed to use my vampire lord form, especially when I started the questline at a higher level. There's just no need for it, unless you were to start dawnguard as soon as you're able, then I could see it being useful to carry you through higher levels, but who wants to hang around a bunch of hot headed red eyed power hungry individuals? Not me, I'll take my hot headed power hungry individuals with normal eyes any day.
I’m somewhat of a Sith lord myself, so I can’t resist vampirism.
Thought that said "shit lord"
Volkihar vampires*
I don't really care for either respectively. Character wise, I like Isran's ragtag group of heroes more. Every time I enter volkihar castle I see the most filthy eaters in all of tamriel. Bowls and cups covered in blood. Clean the damn silverware you filthy daedra loving heathens, I'm this close to spamming vampire's bane and cleaning that place myself!
Ability wise, I like volkihar clan more. Power speaks, but those restoration spells from the arkay talking weirdo are my bread and butter and my gravy on top. I can easily use a wooden plate to sneak in volkihar and buy their restoration spells. Easy peasy.
Story wise... I pick dawnguard. I like power, but theres so many ways to become unimaginably powerful without fearing the sun like a cannibal milk drinker in some dusty old decaying castle.
lol
fearing the sun
ik about a vampire who'd laugh at harkon's plan
also not every Vampire is effected by the sun the same
Better at what? Castles?
Vampires. Might be biased since I do enjoy the vampire RP in my play throughs, but there’s something cool about being a powerful vampire vs just some specialized hunters.
I never ever do the vampire side, the vampire lord form sucks ass and you have to put up with the downsides of vampirism, rude ass annoying NPCs and missing out on amazing rune weapons and enhanced crossbows.
What do you mean objectively better?
i see people use objectively all the time that really dont know what it means
Dawnguard because of two words. Battle Troll.
May I introduce a third word?
Huskies
Depends on the playthrough and all but personally I prefer Dawnguard because I don’t have to deal with the side effects of being a vampire and there is more money-worthy stuff like crossbows and selling to get a good profit. Besides I like Isran and his attitude strangely. vampires on the other hand, there just feels like there isn’t much to it so it isn’t as exciting or good as the Dawnguard. But I do like one thing, when you do side with the vampires you can rebuild that entrance thing to Valerica’s garden which is nice so I can steal her flowers and all and sell them along with some other crap inside the castle but Dawnguard is the winner because of the money-profiting, the characters, the side missions and it isn’t as “morbid” as Volkihar. The only downside to me personally is trying to find enough Bolts for my crossbow if I go with an archery class. I can easily get money and buy the bolts from Sorine and get them off the Dwarven Sphere’s bodies but I don’t really like the Dwarven race much though so I don’t like going through the ruins and such.
sarcosant allows you to turn the sun effect thing off if you want to be lore friendly you could either wear head gear or say your vampire is one of the few not effect by the sun
A Clan whose leader is willing to offer his family as pleasure slaves is never worth of any sort of respect.
Besides, GIGACHAD Isran is the only leader who does not lose his position as leader once the Dragonborn and Serana joins, so that makes him even chadder
The Dawnguard,because Harkon's plan was straight up idiotic. Getting rid of the sun would've put the entire world into chaos.
It would't take long for someone to figure out who's behind it once everyone on Nirn starts looking (including the people outside of Tamriel such as those on Akavir,Pyandonea,etc). People might hate eachother but they've shown before that they'll ally against a common enemy,such as when the Sload (slug people who live on an island called Thras) unleashed a plague upon Tamriel and everyone dropped their racism to go destroy them.
Heck,not even all the Daedric Princes would be okay with losing their favorite mortals to torment,
This is why I think ultimately such a plan would've failed. But it shows you the "strategic foresight" (or lack thereof) that these savages have. They live in a shithole and their plan was shit as well. Glad I sided with the Dawnguard (even as a vamp lol).
Honestly recently was my first play through with the Dawnguard DLC and Dragonborn Dlc. I ended up siding with the vampires just because and then later I developed an intense dislike of the dawn guard for sending war parties so I took it to them in their own castle. Killed everyone I could but I think next time I'll go dawn guard
I'm disappointed I wasn't able to join Dawnguard, defeat the vampires, then get Serana to make me a vampire inside Dawnguard and turn them all to vampires.
The best uno reverse !
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4d
I also dislike the shining eyes, in vanilla Skyrim before Dawnguard the vampires had basically sith eyes, they were a lot more believable blending into society like the secret predators they’re supposed to be, but after Dawnguard the glowing eyes are just ridiculous.
Well, since the Dawnguard didn't turn up in random towns during the middle of the night killing people, I'd say they were better.
The Volkihar clan are pretty awful while Harkon is alive. They’re a reclusive cannibalism cult so no surprise there. But the Dawnguard are not better in any stretch of the imagination.
Dawnguard are depending entirely on the volunteer work of literally anybody old enough to pick up an axe. The first 30 seconds in Fort Dawnguard involve you meeting a kid who’s still young enough to work for his parents and yet he’s handed a crossbow immediately. The Dawnguard also have zero real plan against vampirism as a whole besides “if you see one, kill it”. If you side with Serana they literally only intervene twice in the entire story and even then they all wind up dead as a result. As with most factions in the game they completely suck if the Dragonborn doesn’t join them, but honestly even if DB isn’t on the Vampires’ team, like if the Dragonborn just doesn’t exist period, they’ll still lose hard. They’re up against a supernatural clan of warriors with essentially a peasants militia.
I think the only real path to take in Dawnguard DLC is becoming a Vampire Lord and betraying Harkon. Serana simping aside Harkon is insane and has to die but the Dawnguard are also corrupt and don’t deserve to succeed.
It’s also important to point out that aside from Harkon the majority of the court just stay in the castle and mind their own business. Harkon really was the only reason the Volkihar clan were a threat because after he’s gone and Serana (presumably) takes charge, they straight up just give up on all his plans even though in theory the plans were extremely beneficial to them.
Not all vampires are inherently evil people. They feed on humans but aside from that one thing Volkihar’s clanmates are extremely civilized. They even have cattle so they don’t need to terrorize townspeople and according to the caretaker quite a few actually volunteered for that life. I’m not saying I think it’s a perfect system obviously, they’re kept in a cage full of bones wearing nothing but rags, and sure a few of them were kidnapped as well and don’t want to be there. There’s also instances of members of the court being sent to turn others into vampires so they can be used as spies against their will. But it’s entirely possible for the Volkihar clan to unironically integrate into society in a way that’s not actually predatory.
Thanks for reading my schizo rant.
Harkon vampires cause they won't fuck with you if ya got dawnbreaker
Vampires
What do you mean “better”? Who we prefer, who is more efficient in terms of trying to meet their goals, who is stronger overall, and so on?
I prefer the Vampires because their home is more fleshed out and I genuinely enjoy playing as a vampire in these games. The plot also makes more sense if you side with Volkihar in my opinion. Dawnguard fort is bare and the fun stuff you can unlock feels tacked on and inefficient, like Trolls. The biggest upside is the enhanced dwarven crossbow which isn’t good enough alone to sway me honestly.
Who is more effective, also probably Vampires. Dawnguard spends most of the DLC and events leading up to it reacting to Vampire movement rather than being proactive. They also don’t have a lot of support and all that.
I usually choose the vampires
I really like playing as a vampire and generally I think the Dawnguard is lame. That being said, the person who designed the vampire lord should be fired. Absolutely horrendous design
My default is vampire, but simply because I love vampires. I've done dawnguard like 2 times and vampires 43 at this point
The Dawnguard.
While I prefer being a Vampire and always choose the Volkihar Clan, the truth is, the Dawnguard are simply a better group.
The Volkihar Clan are a group of decadent, stagnant immortals who have lost all their passion. They spend their days (or should I say nights) hiding in an ever crumbling castle, scheming over each other for the pettiest of victories, achieving absolutely nothing from it.
Being a vampire was cool, but I don’t think they do enough with the concept/castle for it to be rewarding enough when compared to the dawnguard.
The quest-line feels like it was designed with the dawnguard in mind, and then bent to fit in a vampire play-through too. The castle is meant to be run down yes, but still its just not as cool as fort dawnguard, the characters are less compelling, and when you become leader it doesn’t really feel like anything has changed. There are some really cool parts, and i do Volkihar more often than DG, but i do feel it falls a little short
I always thought i needed to be a vampire to help serana (i hate being a vampire), but the dawnguard looks so cool even from the outside
Just to piss Harkon off i get my werewolf form again lol
I ironically liked to play a Vampire but always chose Dawnguard over the "Volkies". A mod disables the vamp check the Dawnguard does at some point (rest is mild head canon as to either why they accept you or didn't detect you). They accepted, maybe reluctantly, to work with Serana.
And the concept of anti-vampire vampires isn't new (Hellsing, Blade, etc) but funny to play for me at least.
personally, i always choose vamps becauae i like Serana. is there downsides to that choice? obviously. but i dont mind too much, because usually by the time i get to that part of the game, its not crucial that im out during the day
you get serana regardless of which side you choose.
i understand that, but if you go dawnstar, how are you supposed to be with Serana for eternity? 😂😂
Dawnguard, because vampires are manipulative and exploitive. Besides, you can be a vampire after the entire quest line by Serana, not by the abusive Harkon's biting.
i have a mod to skip the biting thing and the vampire lord tutorial and gets straight into the questline may character was already a vampire lord even before joining the volkihar
Better at what?
The companion werewolves
I'll give castle Volkihar this much, you can make some great poisons with what you can find in there.
The only thing I enjoy from Volkihar is the Ring of the Erudite because it improves your base magicka regen.
When you're a vampire, dawnguard is annoying AF, chasing you.
They literally attacked me in the middle of a conversation
Vampires do the exact same thing brother
Volikhar castle is way more full and it looks really cool from the outside and inside but it's dark and has a depressing vibe to it. The Dawnguard castle is a beautiful and HUGE fort and is the only fort that didn't turn to ruins AFAIK in skyrim. But it's very empty and has a 'big and empty' vibe to it imo
Vampires, for suuuuure. Vampire Lord is the strongest thing you can do in the game, and the special items you get to boost magic in general are godsends. Unlike Lycanthropy, you can transform to and from the Vampire Lord form at will, and nobody can touch you if you're using the Grip.
Crossbows are cool and all, but vampires can do Necromage shenanigans. No contest.
Morally? In terms of coolness? Because morals would go to the dawnguard, obviously, but vampires have that coolness factor that nobody can beat
i mean the vampires are kind of the ones setting the table, no? the dawnguard are just responding to them.
if you mean in gameplay though then honestly both questlines start off equally horribly and only really make up for it with the cool places you visit. for the vampires - why do you have to pretend to join the dawnguard just to join a vampire clan? sure you could say you were scouting the place out and seeing if they were a threat to you, but that's mental gymnastics. as for the dawnguard - why would a vampire hunter not just... kill serana on the spot? again you could mental gymnastics your way into saying how you wanted her to lead you to her family so you had more vampires to kill, but not only is that stupid because she has a fuckin elder scroll, but also you just can't attack anyone when you're introduced to harkon. no, really, the only way to hurt anyone is to charge up a fire storm and then enter the castle, but you can't attack after that.
it's such a shame the introduction put me off doing the questline for so long, because the soul cairn and forgotten vale are awesome (except jiub that whole quest can fuck off).
i have two mods for the dawngaurd one should have been a feature and made no sense to as to why it wasnt added in but this mod called skip dawngaurd quest makes so you dont have to join isran you get a letter inviting you to castle volkihar and you dont have to meet isran the second mod id reccomend this if your maybe doing a playthough as an ancient vampire and have become a vampire mod installed the mod pretty much lets you skip the bite and tutorial scene and just skip to the bloodstone quest
Even if Harkon had succeeded, the net result would be all mortal life on Tamriel dying out. Including, you know, their prey. Assuming that, as Valerica said, all of Tamriel did NOT immediately root out the cause and destroy the Harkon clan.
Objectively? The Dawnguard. The vamps wanted to plunge the world in darkness in order to roam freely. You know what needs sunlight though? Pretty much every living thing on planet earth (or Nirn for that matter) What Valerica said is true regarding how much pressure the vamps would have on them, and how they’d be rooted to extinction. But that’s second to the fact that even if they won out the coming war for the sun, all of their food sources would eventually die out.
I generally prefer Dawnguard. There's just a lot to offer from the armours, the weapons, the magical weapons, and the location and characters are really cool. But, if I am playing a vampire character then there's basically no point not doing the Valkihar quest-line.
Even tho I sided with Dawngaurd, Everytime I went into the castle, there were 3 people attacking one of their own. Eventually They killed 4 of their own people so far.
Sounds like they have a vampire skulking around with Invisibility.
I think they could have done so much more with the Dawnguard. Allowed you to recruit people by doing missions for them or building up the fortress. Vampires are one of those things that I feel most citizens in the game don't really give 2 💩s about.
Are you asking who was stronger? Then the vampires, but they didn’t know how much of an advantage they had
This reminds me i should probably look into getting cured of vampirism, again. Again. Again again. Im sick of the sun hissing at me.
Dawnguard is my favourite. Since I’m a werewolf individual I’d choose the Dawnguard anyway. Although the quests are more fun as a Dawnguard member in my opinion.
i (totally not a dawnguard member) say that the dawnguard fortress looks better
Whichever group got to the Cloud District more often.
Only reason I sided with the vampires was because becoming one was cool. But I learned later that you can still become a vampire if you side with the Dawnguard by asking Serana to make you a vampire after the main quest of the DLC. So that completely invalidates my reason for siding with the vampires. Dawnguard all the way!
Dawnguard is very barebones, but the vampires are simply idiotic. The court intrigue disappears as soon as you go on the hunt for the Moth Priest.
Besides, Dawnguard offers a lot more in terms of gear and spells than the bullshit you get from the vampires. I usually prefer Dawnguard, then becoming a vampire in the Soul Cairn for narrative purposes.
Dawnguard had that sick dwarven crossbow and cooler armor
Dawnguard just because its the only faction where the leader lives at the end of the quest and you arent forced to become the guild leader of another faction
Dawngard was better.
• Organized, skilled leadership.
• Single goal everyone is united under.
• Multiple armor types built to directly address foes
• Specialized weapons.
• Specialist team members.
• Strategic Location (despite the horrible way it was actually defended in-game, Fort Dawnguard doesn't even need secondary defenses. You just need gates at the main cavern entrance and then can use a mountain range as your defensive wall. That corridor of stone you have to come down should be filled with multiple gates and archers. Nothing could get through it.
As for the vampires: All of them are fighting against each other, they haven't developed any new weapons or armor in thousands of years. All their weapons are ancient relics largely considered junk or baubles. Their castle is undefended to the point enemy soldiers are able to establish outposts multiple times in the vampires own guard tower. Vamps are a joke.
Jk, good is best and always will be.
A little unrelated but I wish Winterhold College looked as good as the dawnguard fort..