From the russianriver community on Reddit: Private policing of Sunset beach

www.reddit.com/r/russianriver/s/HtHSfXkufq

With summer coming and river floats being planned I’m hoping this will get some attention.

The Russian river including all banks and shore line up to the high water mark is public land.

In recent years someone is hiring private security to aggressively chase people off the beach and even blocking off some of the water with buoys.

This is a clear violation of access rights however I’ve not yet found any way to report it with any success.

Anyone with any suggestions please feel free to post below.

in santarosaby devedander

91%

13d

SnooDonkeys5341

13d

Here’s an article about the beach in Outside.

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/water-activities/river-rights-battle-heating-up/

prettycoolhuman

13d

Great read, thank you

WigglyFrog

13d

According to the update at the end of this article, the California State Land Commission changed the determination of the high-water mark and now places it below the beach.

devedander

12d

It’s not clear what the beach in question is.

It seems to defy logic that’s marking off a chunk of the waterway with buoys can possibly be above the high water line.

BrowsingForLaughs

12d

Those buoys aren't there to mark territory. They've been there for decades, delineating a safe swimming area where people didn't have to worry about their kids getting hit from behind by a canoe coming downstream, typically from Burke's (often poorly piloted by drunk tourists). They're an attempt at a safety feature to protect children, not some malicious weird af property claim on a patch of water.

Source: me, who grew up in that neighborhood, and swam at that beach many many years ago as a kid and teenager. I haven't been there in twenty years, and maybe things have changed but when I was young it was just to mark out a shallow area of the river where it was safe for kids to swim.

seyheystretch

10d

Exactly, can you cross the bouys? Yes.

Is it a dick move to do so just "because I can!" Also yes.

Those buoys are there to create a safe area, usually very shallow with little current, for children. Just go past them and enter the beach. What is so difficult about that?

There are children's areas at Memorial Beach (County), Monte Rio beach (County?) and multiple privately owned beaches up and down the river. Johnson's (private) does not have one this year but there usually is one there too. They even have fences and charge for parking. Why go after some small neighborhood beach?

earplug42

The buoys would require a Permit to be put in the river. Nothing has ever been filed I checked. Since when is it a dick move to utilize our public land, which is never been their property. They claim their deed goes to the center of the river, but if you read the California constitution all land below, the waterline is state land, and never was owned privately, regardless of what their deed says. We have public easement on everything above the waterline to the ordinary Highwater mark which is substantially above the vegetation line on the bank. This excludes flood events, but I monitor the river every year, and the ordinary Highwater mark is generally 25-30 feet vertically above the summer flows. Any impedance of this public right can be considered a public nuisance and is punishable by six months in jail or $1000 fine and as a misdemeanor. Not to mention the Hacienda improvement Association also defrauds their entire clientele by telling them they need to pay for the beach when they own it already. The hacienda improvement association has no leg to stand on!! They are certainly the aggressors.

seyheystretch

I believe the Hacienda Assoc there pays property taxes and insurance on that property.

earplug42

I it is in the public trust, so we have rights to that land regardless of who pays the taxes. Check the California constitution.

seyheystretch

I agree that there is a public easement to all beach fronts. (btw wonder how Johnson's charges parking below the waterline, then there is Casini, Rivers Bend, Schoolhouse Canyon, etc). No argument there.

My comment was why would someone go out of their way to boat thru a protected kids area when they could just 'beach' their kayak/canoe just before or after said area?

Like returning to your seat during a movie. Sure I could climb over dozens of people to go directly to my seat, upsetting folks there enjoying a movie, or I could be considerate and go down the isle, then down the row to the seat.

devedander

18h

That’s the thing about public property, you don’t have to justify you use of it. It can just be “I felt like it”

For me it was an issue of being berated and attacked when I mistook it for the pullout for sunset.

I didn’t do anything wrong yet I was treated with aggressive hostility (note that as of late they seem to have gotten less aggressive security who doesn’t attack you like a bouncer).

One very real issue is that several of my white’s friends have reported pulling out there with no problem.

But myself and a few other non white friendship are accosted almost instantly. We even get yelled at just floating towards the buoys let alone crossing them let ALONE getting onto the land.

There’s an argument that is just one privatized beach with several other public ones near by but that’s a slippery slope and we’re seeing lots of private property signs all over little pullouts now.

If this isn’t addressed it’s out a matter of time before much of the river is effectively off limits to the public.

devedander

11d

I could see that reasoning but multiple times I’ve been yelled at when crossing the buoy line on just a float or even just swimming.

Basically as soon as you’re even on course to pass the buoy line the security guy and/or several families start yelling at you it’s a private beach.

So regardless of the reason, it’s effectively the boundary of the private beach because it’s where you start getting hassled.

And I don’t think you’re allowed to police the waterway no matter how morally agreeable your reason.

WigglyFrog

12d

Agreed.

East-Cardiologist626

13d

“Imagine learning that punching someone in the face was actually legal”

No it’s not. If someone is notifying you of their PRIVATE PROPERTY LINES and you are across them and strike that person. That is illegal and you’re definitely spending at least a night in jail with a pending assault case dumbasses

your_catfish_friend

12d

…They don’t claim that punching someone is legal. It’s an analogy.

“My friends and I spent the first hour pulling up on every no-trespassing beach we could find, though knowing we were within our rights didn’t make it less awkward. Imagine learning that punching someone in the face was actually legal—it would still be sort of tough to feel OK about it.”

No_Echo_1826

-4

13d

Article? That's a short story. Interesting though.

East-Cardiologist626

13d

No reliable sources, no sources at all really cited, written like a dad telling an over embellished story to his son. Plus having lived there and seen the legal wording written on the deeds. Yes that is private property and no they absolutely do not have right to trespass as the Ngs redid the “high water mark” to be below the beach…… THEREBY making sunset beach a PRIVATE beach

No_Echo_1826

13d

Do you have a source on any of that? The only source needed for this to be true is the link to Montana v US which has shown that navigable rivers can be used by the public on private lands.

devedander

12d

So you’re admitting that before they redid the water line people were illegally privatizing the beaches?

beijingspacetech

13d

Sunset Beach is maintained by Sonoma County Regional Parks I thought? Perhaps contact the ranger who's number is listed here:
https://parks.sonomacounty.ca.gov/visit/find-a-park/sunset-beach-river-park

ismellbacon

13d

This is just upstream from it, just after the bridge. Loosely called Hacienda beach.

beijingspacetech

12d

Ah thanks, never really been to any of these beaches due to the crowds, but definitely support them being open to public.

ZLUCremisi

Larkfield-Wikiup

13d

Notify the sheriff office.

Record with pictures and vedios of anything stopping people.

devedander

13d

My understanding is that the local law enforcement is in on it.

A lot of property owners along the river are tired of how popular it got and decided to “take it back” and at least one of them is the sheriff or close to the sheriff.

It’s so blatant that I think there might be something to it.

ValuableJumpy8208

13d

This is one of those few conspiracy theories I find 1000% plausible here considering what shitbags the cops are in this county.

orthecreedence

13d

Anyone with any suggestions please feel free to post below.

Go hang out on the beach. They can't do shit about it. Guards can't touch you or it's assault. Keep in mind the guards and the locals can, within the bounds of the law, make it very unpleasant for you to be there, but they cannot physically remove you. So it really comes down to how comfortable you are with confrontation.

That said, I'd be really interested to see the result if someone called the Sheriff on these idiots. My guess is they'd be back at it the next day. They probably do it because it works.

devedander

13d

My understanding is that the local law enforcement is in on it.

A lot of property owners along the river are tired of how popular it got and decided to “take it back” and at least one of them is the sheriff or close to the sheriff.

It’s so blatant that I think there might be something to it.

As for what they can do to you, yes you are right they can’t legally do anything but they can’t legally do what they’re doing either.

I have heard some of the ones at the heart of it are the kind you probably don’t want to mix with (ie white supremacist/gun nut) so I wouldn’t encourage anyone do it alone.

fermenter85

13d

Call Russian Riverkeeper. They’ll know whose strings to pull.

evilted

13d

I had two good ol' boys on ATVs threaten me and my family with shotguns once up in Healdsburg area. I have On X Hunt on my phone and already knew who the property owner was. Dropped their name and they quickly shut up. I understand about being pissed off about people that trash the beach but c'mon, a couple with two kids? And a shotgun, too? gtfo

broken-teslas

13d

The Press Democrat might be interested?

devedander

13d

I’ll see if I can send them some pictures or video

PDwatchdog22

10d

Hi there, I'm actually a reporter for the Press Democrat, and I'd be very interested in connecting or looking at any photos or footage you might have. Let me know. Thanks so much!

MaryCallahann

Please contact me, Mary Callahan, at the Press Democrat, 707-521-5249 or [email protected]. I am looking into this issue and could use your help. Thank you!!

alphalegend91

-6

13d

Please do this. I find the whole “sheriffs are in on it” implausible, but there are definitely shenanigans going on and if you get a press outlet on the case they will absolutely blast whoever is in charge of this illegal activity

Avividrose

12d

i would be less surprised if it snowed tomorrow than if the press democrat wrote an article that was critical of local police and wealthy landowners

Yoko_Kittytrain

12d

They've got some great hard hitting articles about the best places to eat in Sonoma though! /s

MaryCallahann

We are.

Historical-Hiker

11d

This is a story as old as time along the Russian River. I used to work security for a firm that property owners would hire to keep beachgoers off the riverbank in the 1980s. Beachgoers didn't have much of a case then and it looks like they don't now.

devedander

11d

Do you mean legally don’t have a case or just functionally don’t?

I think legally there’s a pretty strong case to be had.

Historical-Hiker

11d

I'm sure your opinion is being given serious credence not only at the superior but also the U.S. District Court levels, the appellate and by Ginni Thomas herself. I have heard but have not yet confirmed that the UN has asked for an emergency session to gather the testimony of /u/devedander and present it before the Security Council ahead of the next Ukraine support vote.

In short: nobody cares what you think.

devedander

11d

Functionally… got it.

malevolentpeace

11d

Don't leave anything in the beach, local tweakers will steal all of your stuff. Probably a good place to have private security. Also, don't leave ANYTHING in your car...

No_Ear4169

21h

In regards to the Hacienda Beach, being from the area, the Home Improvement Assoc sucks, just a bunch of uppitys on some power trips, but on the other hand for years we’ve dealt with tourists shitting in not only the bushes near the water but also in the front yard of our home, endless trash, people parking in and blocking my drive way and just really horrendous things. My family loves the river and for that reason keeping the beach private, even just as a deterrent has kept it safe and clean for my kids. We tried to get around the whole Home Improvement Assoc a few years back but there wasn’t really a point, they DO own the land. According to county zoning and parcels, it IS a privately owned park and has been since about the late 70s. Everything from the path to the water is county, to the left of the path is a privately owned park, and the land to the right is privately owned by the homeowners off of sunset. You can check the zoning map here:

https://sonomacounty.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=06ac7fe1b8554171b4682dc141293962

devedander

18h

I get the sentiment and I’m not wild about the amount of trash and broken glass either.

But I don’t think that over rules laws or statutes that govern access.

That said I’m no lawyer and I’ve seen both sides argued that it is and isn’t private so it would be good to have that answered once and for all.

There’s multiple solutions to a problem and I don’t know that I can go with privatizing public land if that’s indeed what’s happening.

I get loving your little corner of paradise but in many ways I liken this to buying a place above a cute restaurant. Once it gets popular it’s going to get loud and busy.

You can’t keep a secret forever and when you buy near a little piece of paradise it’s eventually going to get found out and attract the masses.

I think that’s something people need to be aware of when they buy.

That said even if this is a private park, there’s dozens of private property/no trespassing signs along the river at numerous pullouts.

The danger is that this practice gets normalized and then they all become private and essentially the law becomes “well what can we do about that?”

hurdygurty

13d

Does anyone have clarification on what the "high water" line is? Is the following accurate? "The line that a river impresses on the soil by covering it long enough to deprive it of agricultural value"

I was once told not to park my kayak on the "private" shore next to stump town brewery in Guerneville. Stumptown only had an eroded cliff for river access on their property.

devedander

11d

It should be publicly accessible information not I’m not sure how to access it.

I do know a few years ago it was redone because many of the home owners complained it represented a time when the water level was higher - so it was redone in the middle of pretty much the worst drought we’ve seen in recent history.

I don’t know what that has done to certain beaches or what it take to have it redone now that it’s rained a few years.

I suspect it’s one of those rounds that will be abused until it’s effectively codified.

Global-Berry-6239

12d

It seems to me the property owners are sitting on a gold mine if they want to sell a day pass by 10 bucks in a week's time is 150 to $300 times it by the weeks of a month if they could cover liability insurance and everybody could have a good time but the public's got to understand that they're taking advantage of these good folks liability wise something to be worked out My name Ricky j Hubman , Clearlake Oaks,ca

East-Cardiologist626

-16

13d

Funny because as someone who’s lived down skyline I bought that property because sunset beach was a private beach. Don’t live there anymore but that’s why I bought that property. You have to live in the area to get access to that beach. Maybe don’t assume Basic human decency doesn’t apply and that you can go wherever you damn well please

orthecreedence

12d

Maybe don’t assume Basic human decency doesn’t apply and that you can go wherever you damn well please

Maybe don't assume your trashy RE agent didn't full-on lie to you to make a sale and you fell for it hook line and sinker without doing a tiny bit of research...?

In CA, 6ft from the water line (rivers, ocean, ...) is public land. Access to the beach might be private, but the beach itself is not private in any way. If someone floats their ass down the river to your flea-infested beach, they are free to be up to 6ft from the water line.

devedander

12d

Thanks for lending legitimacy to the claim that this is going on!

bunheadxhalliwell

12d

I took screenshots in case she deletes them lol

bunheadxhalliwell

12d

You’re literally proving the claims of this post lol

SethAndBeans

13d

Literally not private. May have private access, but the beach itself, alongside pretty much every other beach in California, river or ocean, is public property.

Been that way for almost a half a century. California Coastal Act of 1976.

Your opinions are not facts. Please don't treat them as such.

Eminomicon

12d

Yeah, I've seen this a lot in Healdsburg out by Del Rio Woods. Everyone is extremely possessive of their river access and has padlocks on gates and such, but that's ultimately just a means of controlling who can reach the river through their property. Folks can get pretty prickly when they want you off "their" beach.

Saw the same thing at beaches in Malibu.

seyheystretch

There are many 'beaches' on the river that are private property (an individual or group pays property taxes and liability insurance etc).

You are confusing public access with public property. Big difference.

East-Cardiologist626

-15

13d

Oh so you must be crotty then? If you are you’re barking at the person who owns the property next to you in Rosa too. I say this Because he’s the only one who would know what the property deeds actually say because I sold it to him.

SethAndBeans

13d

I'm stating facts and laws. Sorry they don't line up with your ignorance.

I cited the act, you can educate yourself or you can live in denial. Heck, if you want the last word I'll even give you that too.

Have a great day. Feel free to respond knowing I won't.