truthout.org/articles/as-israel-begins-final-phase-of-genocide-biden-slams-pro-palestine-protests/
As Israel Begins “Final Phase” of Genocide, Biden Slams Pro-Palestine Protests
It's a shame this article is what passes for news for some people. This is editorial, not impartial reporting.
So true. We need more 'Trump farted' articles with 10k upvotes
I was hoping to hear how he was threatened with jail time again and got a thousand dollars fine, instead
It's hilarious because that doesn't exist
What fucking ridiculous, loaded headline. Fuck off, BullshitOut.
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25d
Which will only upset some people while failing to placate others.
lol the appropriate time to pause weapons to Israel was decades ago
Decades ago…when Biden was President?
What I really meant was “waiting for rafah is such a weird choice to make a red line since we are already beyond so many other red lines”
Then why did you say something completely different?
It’s not completely different to say “the best time for an American govt to do this would have been decades ago” and “it’s weird to wait until now to make this decision when everything done heretofore has been horrific and wrong and there’s nothing different about how horrific this new one thing is when we are making this decision”
It…is completely different though? I feel like I’ve got a pretty strong prima facie argument that the first statement is not the same as the second, twice as long statement.
They are both rephrasings of “this step is much too late”
One of them is actually relevant to Biden. One of them is not. So no, they are not the same thing.
Biden’s presidency didn’t start this week and he has transferred many billions of dollars of weapons to Israel, with and without congressional approval and before and after the ICJ preliminary ruling.
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25d
This is a very serious topic? And if you are going to take such an active part in the discussion of it, you should at least attempt to be a serious participant in it.
Fair enough I’ll remove my joke
Literally no part of that read as a joke.
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25d
Well no! But it’s weird to give Biden credit for it now with all the toddler gore he enabled the last six months.
One arms shipment "paused" with no commitment from the White House, vs billions of money and weapons already shipped to Israel and continuing to do so, over 6 months into an ethnic cleansing being committed by Israel with only "concern" and stern conversations reported as PR for a White House complicit in war crimes.
News Brief: Axios, NYT Help White House Obscure Their Role in Rafah Invasion
Without addressing whether there had been a hold-up in arms shipments, White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre reaffirmed that Washington’s commitment to Israel’s security was “ironclad”.
Still, when asked about the reports on the arms delays, she added: “Two things could be true, in the sense of having those conversations, tough, direct conversations with our counterparts in Israel … in making sure citizens lives are protected … and getting that commitment.”
The Pentagon said on Monday that there had not been a policy decision to withhold arms from Israel, the US’s closest Middle East ally.
[...]
However, he also noted that the pause of one delivery amounts to a very small percentage of the overall volume of weapons that Washington has been providing to Israel. “This is just a drop in the ocean,” Jamjoom said.
Watering down the word "genocide" does more harm than good.
Similarly, watering down the word "antisemitism" to include the criticism of a government does more harm than good.
In describing the actions of Israel, we should stick to more general, and less debateable terminology. I advocate for sticking to "war crimes" and referring to Netanyahu and IDF as "war criminals."
I agree wholeheartedly.
And all the Hamas leaders also right? Right?
Absolutely. Hamas is a terrorist organization.
Jesus Christ, you guys cannot just let it alone can you? Hamas is not mentioned because... OF COURSE HAMAS AND ITS LEADERS ARE WAR CRIMINALS!
Thanks for acknowledging that. The truth about the Middle East is that there is plenty of blame to go around. But there does seem to be a current trend to blame the Israelis for everything. We need to remember why this war started and why it is continuing.
Ok, I’ll bite. It started because of Hamas. It’s continuing because of Israel. That’s why students are protesting.
The United States did its utmost to avoid civilian casualties on two fronts for over a decade (two decades, in the case of Afghanistan).
Why does Israel get a pass for indiscriminately killing civilians (and Israeli hostages)? How does blowing children to pieces keep Israelis safer?
Genocide now means losing a war you started.
Yeah the people calling this a genocide don’t care about definitions, they are using it as an emotional cudgel.
Does Israel need to create death camps and have benjamin Netanyahu say "we are doing a genocide" in order for it to be considered a genocide by you?
When you cut off water, heavily restrict food and create a full blown famine, destroy 70% of structures in the north, kill using AI with greenlights of up to 300 civilians for high priority suspected targets, kill thousands of innocent men women and children, force innocent civilians to live outside in makeshift tents on beaches and in desert . . . Thats not genocide? When your leader quotes a passage about amalek and sparing none, thats not an allusion to genocide? When a member of the security council says no half measures and calls for total annihilation, thats not an allusion to genocide? When another government official calls palestinians in Gaza human animals, that doesnt indicate genocidal intent? When your soldiers deliberately destroy cultural sites and mosques, thats does not indicate genocidal intent?
Classification, symbolization, discrimination, dehumanization, organization, polarization, preparation, persecution, extermination and denial. I see a lot of those happening. Seems like genocide to me.
You have described war, with possible war crimes.
I'm assuming you probably call what happened to Native Americans war with possible war crimes as well. Maybe you dabble in Armenian-Turkish war with war crimes as well . . Or maybe a little Rwandan civil war with war crimes?
Imagine suggesting that someone else is unreasonable while literally placing Israel/Palestine on the same level as Rwanda and the genocide of the Native Americans.
Don't assume.
This just sounds like a war.
The problem with the un definition of genocide, is most of the definition is just a definition of what happens in a war. And the criteria states any one of the criteria or all of them are used to determine if a conflict is genocide. If all war could be prosecuted as genocide, the meaning is lost. Which is what has happened in Gaza.
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25d
That's overly broad, even more than the UN definition which is already overly broad.
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25d
Are you seriously trying to police “where peoples’ energy is”, Dude Having a Reddit Argument About Definitions?
EDIT: This brave brave guy blocked me so I couldn’t respond to his incredibly weak comebacks and he could feel like he “won”. This is an incredibly important topic, and what is happening to the Palestinian people is a crime, and it’s super unfortunate that a huge portion of the loudest people taking up their cause on this website act like complete babies.
Yeah I kinda hate having this conversation but if we are going to compare the numbers: 35,000 dead is the reported figure in Gaza but I'm going to do an extreme highball and say that it's secretly a million people that perished in Gaza for the sake of argument. At 1 million dead it would still be lower than the hypothetical 1.5 million trans people and 11 million immigrants who would be incarcerated into concentration camps under the wording of project 2025 and the rhetoric of djt.
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25d
Another 23 Palestinians were blown to pieces Sunday in a bombing of Rafah by the IDF, including 6 children.
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Untrue. I don't believe it's genocide and think this war has crossed the line to illegal. How familiar are you with war? Have you ever seen it except through a television?
The same predicate acts can be either war crimes, crimes against humanity, or at their most severe genocide.
Look at death counts vs population. Racists in government saying racist things and people dying in war don't make a genocide. As these are crimes individuals commit; you have to prove that people with command and control planned and coordinated to destroy. A government wide plan. As there are two million Palestinians with Israeli citizenship not being subjected to the predicate actions.
It being a bad war, doesn't make it genocide.
Yes, we should. These things are horrific in their own right.
Thankfully that isn't happening here.
Which is why the ICC and the ICJ are now involved. NATO is documenting mass graves with bound and murdered victims. Some people apparently buried alive.
If America wasn't so flipping hypocritical about human rights we would put boots on the ground and hunt Bibi like we did Saddam and hand his ass straight to the Palestinians for some real justice.
You're right. Genocide isn't happening in Gaza.
So....illegally invade yet another MENA country to impose our will? Sounds like a familiar plan that didn't work...ever.
This is a garbage headline supported by pro-Hamas terrorists.
Lol now Truthout is Hamas?
So they're going after the other 99% of the population now?
Russia trained Hamas. Truthout is an apologist for Russia.
Truthout, like Jacobinrag, is just another site provided for naive, uneducated, self important, morally superior halfwits.
Biden is a genocide enabler, of course he's against protesters. The famous "red line" on Rafah was quickly erased by netanyahu
So Biden has command and control of the IDF? He passed the appropriations bills from Congress that he can't legally countermand or impound?
This is a war not a genocide. We determine genocides after they happen. I've seen evidence chargeable of war crimes. I don't see the special planning required for genocide.
And if this war was based on ethnicity and not State vs State war; why are the two million Israeli Palestinians not being subjected to any of the predicate acts? This conflict is haze gray. It needs independent commissions and international intervention. But what it doesn't need is maximalist rhetoric that leaves no room for diplomacy.
It has to be a "genocide" in order to be more effective as an anti-establishment cudgel. The numbers and definitions don't actually matter.
"We determine genocides after they happen."
Probably the dumbest, most openly pro-genocide Reddit remark I've seen so far.
Really? I doubt that. But yes, we determine what something is or isn't after we fully investigate. You've come up with a result before any investigation. When even questioning whether it's a genocide is "support," you've lost the script.
You're free to question whether an ongoing event is in fact a genocide. But this idea that we'll simply wait for a genocide to finish before calling it such is ludicrous.
If there is ample evidence for genocide, it is right to call an ongoing campaign of atrocities a genocide, and this is exactly what we do in other contexts: Sudan, Myanmar, Xinjiang.
Or do we have to wait for the Darfur genocide to "simmer down" before we call it that?
There isn't "ample evidence." A lot of assertions with very provocative images and little third party corroboration. I am not denying acts, I'm saying genocide is a legal distinction of a cluster of predicate acts. So deciding before investigation is suspect. That doesn't mean don't react, everything is fine.
Well, there is, but that wasn't what I said. I made a point referring to the arbitrary desire, which you seemed you express, to call a series of events (or a campaign of atrocities) a genocide only after it happens.
Yet as I've mentioned, genocide happens and it can be identified while it was happening.
Unless, maybe, you think that none of what is currently happening in Darfur, Myanmar, or Xinjiang is a genocide?
How can you judge events before any investigation or trial?
Call it whatever you like, under the convention, the same set of crimes, predicate actions, can be considered war crimes, crimes against humanity, or at their worst, genocide. Individuals order those actions.
What will you do if it is decided, by either or both the ICC and/or ICJ, that this wasn't genocide, but crimes against humanity? Or is this an "I feel" designation?
I have no idea what you're referring to, because almost none of what you've said relates to what I said previously to you.
You expressed a wish to wait for atrocities to conclude before evaluating the evidence concerning their genocidal intent. I said that would be absurd, and discordant with many other scenarios that are commonly considered genocides by international bodies and scholars: Darfur, Myanmar, Xinjiang. I don't know why this is hard to understand.
In the case of Palestine, a body of evidence has come forth concerning the genocidal intent and actions expressed and carried out by the Israeli apparatus. You may disagree whether this body of evidence constitutes sufficient evidence for genocide. You may also choose to defer to international bodies and scholars, many of whom consider the current atrocities part of a genocide. There is no "I feel" here.
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