www.thestar.com/news/canada/outrage-in-ontario-is-the-highest-in-the-country-latest-rage-index-poll-finds/article_68a9df3c-0b17-11ef-8110-47490725130f.html
Outrage in Ontario is the highest in the country, latest ‘Rage Index’ poll finds
Articlehahah, fuckin' nailed it Gowron!
hahahaha what a fricken fantastic show
Disenfranchised.
Resentment would be a more applicable word.
And who wouldn't be resentful?
Shit's expensive, rent/mortgages is unaffordable due to money laundering(locally and abroad thanks REITs), services being skimmed or reduced by fraudsters under the guise of "efficiencies", all areas of Human activity undergoing financialization because the logic of capitalism is to make money at your own and everyone elses expense.
This is what corruption looks like and is experienced as, but the people won't do anything about it because they want to be able to do the corruption themselves.
So until it all collapses upon itself and it will, the "people"(ymmv depending on "what" you aren't in the system) get their head out of their ass and actually do something about it.
Here's the actual poll: https://www.pollara.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Rage-Index-April-2024.pdf
Since toronto star is paywalled, I can't read the actual article. Googled the poll for myself to read. Now you can too!
Since toronto star is paywalled, I can't read the actual article.
For those looking, here's a paywall bypass for the article: https://archive.ph/sQdd9
Yeah, like download the extension they have and no more paywalls.
Gen Z is not paying attention. They should be the most angry at every category, they are getting fucked over the hardest by everyone and everything.
Gen Z'ers, including myself, are too busy trying to figure out what the fuck we can possibly do with education to get a well paying job and be somewhat happy.
Every industry seems to be loaded to the fucking tits with no spaces to spare unless you know someone, or want to hate yourself working in healthcare. At least where I live, it's even painfully difficult to get an apprenticeship within the trades that claim are oh so desperate for workers - unless again, you fucking know someone to get you in.
I'd love to rage against the government, but I have to focus on getting to a stable life first. Unfortunately, I do not have time or energy for both.
Exactly, in order for rage to be productive and sustainable, you have to have the energy to fight. With the exorbitant food costs, I’d say thats’s difficult to maintain on a limited budget.
"I have to focus on getting a stable life first."
Noble, but naive. The reason millennials are raging so much is because we thought the same thing and didn't fight for any changes.
How is simply trying to survive considered naive?
Shooting shots at other generations for inaction just because yours did the same thing isn't going to fix anything at all.
Those who have stability should be standing up for those who don't so we can all live a fruitful life, and not just those who were born at the right time.
What Im saying is don't make the same fucking mistakes we did.
Not everything is "shooting shots."
When someone is flat out telling you something doesn't work, don't sit there and say "well it will for me." Not everything is a generational battle. I'm literally telling you that sitting there and trying to "make stability" in a system that's designed to create instability won't work.
Geez you guys gotta fucking chip on your shoulder for everything.
Talk about proving my point lmao.
I don't need some over-entitled millennial redditor telling me how to live my life, go be a hypocrite elsewhere.
"Youre not my dad!"
Fuck. If only you knew what the words you say actually meant.
I know someone and still can't get in
I find it interesting that personal financial situation goes down and all other anger characteristics go up, lol. People on Reddit may think they are one and the same but some people just like to be mad.
I laugh that gen x is most angry. My FIL spills a few drops of milk on the counter and fucking loses it.
We're turning into the U.S
Lies, propaganda, corporations exploiting human rights, wallstreet stealing workers wages and the never ending greed of the wealthiest destroying our planet for profit.
We have a potential 3rd term with Trump-lite. Nothing to look forward to but more CONs with the boomer mindset of "got mine so fuck you!"
Articles in the Globe and Star from people complaining about paying taxes on their second million...
If you read the poll the provincial government is second last in terms of what people were angriest about.
Ontario has been fairly consistent with other provinces. The outlier is BC.
So I would point out you are actually perpetuating some rage and misinformation by directing the headline towards our provincial government. When that's not in fact what the data says.
What level of government people are angry about is exactly the problem but you have it all wrong. The province is directly responsible for many of the issues we face whereas the feds are indirectly responsible. The feds supply some funding for various services but the logistical administration and the abundance of these services (healthcare, education, labour, etc) are all controlled provincially.
The fact that people are angry at the feds for most of the problems in their life is more of a reflection on poor education coupled with blatant misinformation pushed by the media.
This is what my comment was going to be. People would be more enraged at the Provincial government if they had half an idea about the division of powers in our system, and I’ve done my best, here, to use charitable language about people not understanding that
Lol. Education is also under the provincial umbrella. So I'm expecting people to get dumber and dumber in Ontario as time marches on. I mean, have you seen our education minister?
The overwhelming abundance in immigration numbers are affecting absolutely all of those issues. The feds blindsided the provinces with that, WTH are they supposed to be able to do. Fed funding goes down and they triple immigration.
This gives off a strong “everyone who doesn’t feel the exact same way as me is stupid” vibe but you are doing exactly what you’re condemning and pushing blatant misinformation.
The provinces absolutely could have and should be doing a better job, and they share part of the blame, but insinuating that this is mostly their fault is just as ridiculous as blaming everything on the feds. I personally think the blame is 60/40 or 70/30 (60/70 being the feds). If we only had housing, healthcare and infrastructure challenges in a couple provinces, it would make sense to blame those provinces, but everything is a complete disaster right now across Canada and the common denominator is the Federal Government. Rapid population growth with seemingly no planning is responsible for many of these challenges and the federal government is wholly responsible for this. They set everyone up to fail and then act surprised when they fail and offer to come in and white knight everything for political points. They all need to sit down together and figure this out because we can all agree that it’s not working and it is not getting better.
You offer only vague inferences as to why you think the feds are responsible. If that's all it takes to convince you then you're not going to make an informed decision anyway.
Rapid population growth with seemingly no planning is responsible for many of these challenges and the federal government is wholly responsible for this.
Such a vague statement and yet such a definitive stance. Smdh....
Other than just your opinion, you literally offered literally nothing as to why you think the provinces are responsible, then you more or less said that anyone who disagrees is dumb. Then you called me dumb lol.
I don’t think what I said was unreasonable and I think that my point about everything being a complete disaster because of rapid population growth with seemingly no planning sums it up. There are literally hundreds of articles available that prove my point but you seem too blinded by “dUgG fOrD bAd” to use critical thinking.
Other than just your opinion, you literally offered literally nothing as to why you think the provinces are responsible
Other than just explaining how things work? You seem to be confused as to who is responsible for what. That isn't a matter of opinion. You can't just say that you think it works differently and it becomes reality. Critical thinking only works if you actually start with useful information.
Lol ok. You’re right, it’s all the province’s fault. Nobody else shares any blame. The federal government should be able to increase the population at whatever rate they feel like without any support or collaboration and the province’s need to just deal with it. I’m sure even our crisis level low gdp per capita is also the provinces fault. Trudeau’s low popularity is the province’s fault. The federal government debt is the province’s fault. Everything is the province’s fault and anyone who questions that is stupid. Everyone in this poll who doesn’t feel the same as you is stupid. Basically everyone except you is stupid. Great talk.
Now you're just being a dingus about it. Maybe study up on how it all works and get back to me.
Nope I’m not at all. Everything is the province’s fault. The federal government has done a great job, they’re perfect.
I will also say that I appreciate being called a dingus. I have been called many things but I don’t think I’ve ever been called a dingus. Very creative, I like it. Have a good day 👍
the common denominator is the Federal Government
The common denominator is conservative political influence
Lol WTF are you talking about? Holy cow, this sub can have some good viewpoints but it can also be insufferable sometimes. You’re assuming that I’m expressing my opinion from a conservative perspective, but I’m not, I’m expressing it from a common sense perspective.
Regardless of what party is in charge federally or provincially, increasing the population by 1.2-1.5 million people every year with little to no planning or collaboration with the provinces is a recipe for disaster for the economy, housing, infrastructure, health care, etc.
No, it's not "common sense" it's just more deflection using immigration as a scare tactic, to offload the responsibilities of the mostly cons provinces...
That is absolute bullshit but you are entitled to your opinion. I did not absolve the provinces of all responsibilities here, they are to blame too, but to blame everything on the provinces is ridiculous. It’s no different than blaming every problem in Canada on Trudeau or the carbon tax. Our productivity is a complete disaster, out housing situation is a complete disaster, our healthcare is a complete disaster, everything in our country is a complete disaster so it makes no sense to place blame solely on the provinces.
It’s like if you were the head of HR at a manufacturing plant with 500 employees. HR was responsible for on-boarding and ensuring success of new employees, but then the company hired 100 new employees every day for several years with no plans in terms of plant infrastructure, where they will change, what washrooms they will use, what jobs they will do, etc. it would be an absolute disaster. You could probably look back in hindsight and say I could have done this better and that better but there is literally nothing you could do to facilitate adding that many employees without tons of planning and collaboration from the management team responsible for the plant as a whole.
Mostly agree with you but sort of in a different way.
We the people should be holding the province more responsible for day-to-day things, but I think the difference is we should be giving way way WAAAAAY less money to the feds in taxes and instead be properly funding our provinces.
The fed government is useless and overspends on everything except the wellbeing over our country and our communities. It makes me sick how much money we send out of country.
The province is set with the hard decisions to decide what to fund, all of the things we use every single day. Roads, infrastructure, health care, education, many different labour industries to be paid, social services, the list goes on. The province has too many things to fund and not the funds to do it, so someone is always going to be upset with what they select.
We need to stop sending our money away when so many parts of our communities are underfunded, and reinvest OUR money back into OUR communities and services.
Well, Ontario seemed to have had surpluses in the last few years so seems like they were not hurting for money but they were deliberately starving our healthcare systems for example.
Yep. Break the system. Then allow privatization because the system is broken.
Foreign aid of $6.9 billion, less than 0.5% of the budget, and down 15% year over year, and that is your number one problem with the federal government? That's what makes you sick?
The charts in the poll make it look like Feds/Ontario are pretty neck and neck in the anger rating, with people slightly angrier at the Feds.
In any case, I'd note a common theme consistent with Canadian politics - people direct their anger at the Feds for something their provincial government is responsible for. Housing, affordability, commuting... all these things could be addressed if provinces pivoted - implementing dense, multi-use developments. This would lower construction costs and create more walkable communities (relieving people of the near mandatory cost of vehicle ownership, or worse, multi-vehicle ownership) and allow them to spend more time doing fun things rather than being stuck in traffic... probably getting road raged.
The main issues in Ontario are: 1) housing costs mainly due to massive immigration which is controlled federally. The only way for the province to mitigate this is to promote xenophobia: is that what you suggest Ford should do more of? 2) due to low wages vs COL which is again mainly due to massive immigration and wage suppression. The provincial conservatives have been doing so-so in attracting international investment re battery plants etc, beating BC and QC certainly, and competitive with AB, beating them handily if you care for the environment. 3) cost of food: a national issue driven by inflation, energy costs, and international trade policies. 4) relatively high inflation, high interest rates and low value of CAD: completely federal, and largely due to the current government’s policies since Covid
So…when it comes down to it, no, trying to pin this on the provincial conservatives does not withstand scrutiny. One could strongly argue that the only reason Ford is still in power despite his “shortcomings” is in reaction to the perceived worse performance of the provincial and federal liberals in recent memory.
1) housing costs mainly due to massive immigration which is controlled federally. The only way for the province to mitigate this is to promote xenophobia: is that what you suggest Ford should do more of?
If you're angry about immigration, I'd note that much of the immigration (TFW/student residences) was at Ford/OPC's explicit request - largely to subsidize its lack of funding for post secondary education.
Our housing/COL crisis would have happened regardless of our immigration numbers. Maybe not as suddenly or as dramatically, but the housing crisis was on the forecast since 2011 (when Toronto/Vancouver started to go out of control) and its origins date back 30+ years. I think people who try to pin the housing crisis just on the Feds will be sorely disappointed with a CPC-led government regardless of whether it turns the immigration taps off (and they probably won't), largely because they have misdiagnosed the problem and are being led astray. But, "you do you".
Well you’re redirecting a complete rebuttal of your comment (about the province having control of those aspects, which they clearly don’t) into a thinly veiled personal attack while saying I support the conservatives under PP at the upcoming election and blame immigrants, which I don’t either. But you do you.
And anyhow nothing in particular happened in 2011 in the housing market in Toronto/Vancouver, which have been rising steadily since the dotcom bubble of 2001 after which investors sought safer investments. What happened recently to precipitate the crisis was the Feds doubling the immigration in one year to nearly double the previous record level, and to blame that on Ford in defence of the Feds is totally ridiculous
The data suggests that Ontarians (especially GenX) have no idea how their own government works to know which one to direct their anger at. It is currently in this way due to widespread wilful ignorance.
The problems in Ontario are largely the fault of the provincial conservative scam artist government but they’ve managed, through propaganda, to direct that rage elsewhere. I think that’s the point they were making.
Literally ALL of their prominent issues are caused by Doug ford. You know, the guy who is intentionally defunding and sabotaging the healthcare and education systems, who demanded more foreign students to fill his friends’ fake diploma mill schools?
Literally everything people are pissed about is basically a Doug Ford problem.
You know why BC is the outlier? Because instead of actively and intentionally seeking to aggravate these problems as a political ruse to fool people into blaming everything on the feds, as they do in most other provinces, BC has done the opposite and actively addresses these problems
They didn’t do a provincial breakdown. Safe bet that the difference in overall “rage” in Ontario is explained by Ontario’s provincial government.
Maybe. Anecdotally, in real life, I see and hear a shit ton more people upset with Mr. Trudeau's Federal Liberal Government than Mr. Ford's Provincial Conservative Government.
I know I know, everybody is stupid, obviously didn't pass their highschool civics class, and whatever other things people say to sweep it under the rug, but I've yet to see a Fuck Ford clothing line/bumper sticker collection manifest itself yet.
The safe bet is simple, if you base it on reality (ie. polling numbers) -- it is steered towards the current Liberal Federal Government moreso than any other participants or branches of the Government.
Tell me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article
How is that comment inconsistent with the article? I've read the article, and the comment rings true to me. Why doesn't it for you?
because none of what they said was in the poll? They also run right to provincial government in their 3rd sentence yet provincial government was one of the lowest "rage" items in the poll.
Lies, propaganda, corporations exploiting human rights, wallstreet stealing workers wages and the never ending greed of the wealthiest destroying our planet for profit.
I crossed out the items they mentioned that were NOT mentioned in the article for simplicity.
I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. Anybody is allowed to make reasonable connections between the bare facts of a poll and what they believe are behind those bare facts. Your position is like claiming that if a poll said that 25% of people distrust COVID vaccines, and that's all it said, nobody could make a comment about online misinformation because, "That wasn't mentioned in the poll."
People are allowed to combine information in a posted article with information they know from other sources to make a comment that relates to the information in the posted article. I'm really scratching my head as to why anybody could think otherwise.
They also run right to provincial government in their 3rd sentence yet provincial government was one of the lowest "rage" items in the poll.
If you go to the actual poll, you'll see that anger towards provincial governments is highest in Ontario (pg. 9). So, your statement is misleading, if not just factually wrong. Beyond that, many people, sadly, don't actually understand what is the responsibility of their federal versus provincial governments, so even if that were not the case, anybody could comment that our pain is actually being caused at a different level than most people ascribe it to, and that would be a relevant comment.
How is that comment inconsistent with the article? I've read the article, and the comment rings true to me.
and now you are saying "ya so basically none of that WAS in the article but you can make connections if you want!"
... sure.
If you go to the actual poll, you'll see that anger towards provincial governments is highest in Ontario (pg. 9). So, your statement is misleading, if not just factually wrong. Beyond that, many people, sadly, don't actually understand what is the responsibility of their federal versus provincial governments, so even if that were not the case, anybody could comment that our pain is actually being caused at a different level than most people ascribe it to, and that would be a relevant comment.
ffs.
FROM THE ARTICLE:
Those surveyed in Ontario were most likely to have negative emotions towards both the federal and provincial governments.
“I don’t think this is a partisan issue,” Arnold said, adding that it’s more likely economic frustration boiling over in all directions, with 70 per cent of Ontarians expressing frustration with the economy.
and yes i looked at the poll, ontario is basically in line with all other provinces, it is a minuscule difference excluding BC. Especially if you look at previous quarters over last 2 years.
and now you are saying "ya so basically none of that WAS in the article but you can make connections if you want!"
... sure.
Good, I’m glad we agree. If somebody reads an article, then makes a comment reasonably connecting the contents in the article to contents not in the article, it makes no sense to say, “Tell me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article,” which was the statement I was responding to, because OP very likely did read the article, and was commenting based upon it, which they can do and it does not mean or suggest that they did not read the article.
At this point, I actually have no idea what you’re claiming/defending. It just sounds like dumb gatekeeping to me about what people are “allowed” to discuss on an Internet forum.
lets back it up then for you. Your comment:
How is that comment inconsistent with the article? I've read the article, and the comment rings true to me
can you show me where in the article that any of the below (from the following section of the original comment) was mentioned or even had tertiary support?
Lies, propaganda, corporations exploiting human rights, wallstreet stealing workers wages and the never ending greed of the wealthiest destroying our planet for profit.
feel free to link the sections of the article that support the connections made here.
Bro it's called discussion, and generally how people learn new facts. You should try it sometime
Ah, so you've reversed yourself and now nobody can bring additional information to any article that is posted on reddit. Got it.
This is stupid. The article is about people's emotional state in relation to government and the world they are living in. People can talk about that world and government which is related to that emotional state, and it has nothing to do with them not having read the article.
You're welcome to have a narrow view of what kind of comments are "allowed" and to try to gate-keep that if you want. Good luck with that expenditure of your energies.
Just because someone reports that they are enraged by a certain branch of government or individual, doesn't actually mean they know what that branch/person is responsible for. Many, many people seem to blame the feds for issues completely out of their jurisdiction because it's the face they see and the name they remember. That's not to say that the feds aren't doing a bad job managing the country, but they constantly get blamed for things like the lockdowns during COVID in Ontario which they were not responsible for. People think that because we have universal healthcare across the country that it's a federally managed program.
Basically we can't extrapolate anything from this about the source of the anger, even if that source is more specific than the study suggests it is. Most people in this country don't know enough about how it's run to accurately place blame on the correct policies or leaders.
Most people in this country don’t even know what policies have been implemented by the federal government, and when they do it is almost always negatively framed by the opposition and often media as well.
Poll shows high numbers for not knowing much about the budget, if a poll was done on several different policies to check knowledge level, we would find the results to be very poor.
To a great extent, the poll is a reflection of rage farming and negative reporting.
For example, the number of those angry about the economy exceeds the number of those angry about their own financial situation.
That is a red flag condemnation of the press, when our economic numbers show we are doing better than most peer countries, and at or near the top on several metrics.
The world has faced and is faced with crises that are affecting supply chain and supply itself - agriculture is being affected by climate change disasters.
In any case, it is always better for democracy when voters are thoroughly informed about facts, and where Canada is relative to other nations. Perspective matters. After all, the costs of climate change will only get worse, and voting for parties that oppose climate change policy is self sabotage.
It's the star, most people probably can't read the article. I have no idea why restricted articles are even allowed.
I have no idea why restricted articles are even allowed.
Because no one asks you do to your job for free, why are you demanding the same out of journalists?
Plus, the star is accessible to any Toronto resident with their library card, so get one and you can read it.
the star is accessible to any Toronto resident with their library card, so get one and you can read it.
You realize people of Ontario can also exist outside of Toronto, yes?
Nah probably not, because your brain is an eggplant 🍆
You realize people of Ontario can also exist outside of Toronto, yes?
Yes, and OTHER cities libraries also have the star for free, there no need to get angry at me because you're too cheap to pay for a product though.
Yup this about sums it up.
Turning into the US without any of the upside like wages or jobs
So when do we take to the streets?
Right after we show up to vote. So, ...never.
I dont think I've ever done that and ever will sadly...I would need things to be completely unlivable to do that.
When its too late...Sadly...
The pc party isn't the one bringing in all of these "wrong direction on the 401", international students and uber drivers.
That's the feds.
The pull the ladder up party
Nothing to look forward to
I'm looking forward to many things.
NO SHIT
Can't afford a house can't afford rent can't save up money to be able to afford improvements cuz the taxes are ridiculous can't vote for someone to make a difference
cuz the taxes are ridiculous
name a country with less taxes. And don't say the US, because that's not true.
Some developed places with Lower Corp and Individual with exception of highest margin for some: Albania, Bulgaria, Austria, Australia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Georgia, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Czechia, Brasil.....would you like more?
Oh yeah? Well I bet you can’t name 20!!
Arnold’s latest poll also found that the majority of Canadians, more than two-thirds, either haven’t heard about the latest federal budget or aren’t familiar with its details.
Feelings toward the budget’s new deficit calculations drew the most outrage, followed by anger toward the capital gains tax and building out Canada’s artificial intelligence infrastructure.
How can people who haven't heard about the federal budget be outraged about it? Seems a bit sus to me
Because the conservatives told them to be
I'm just flabbergasted at the sheer volume of rage-bait articles about a tax change that will potentially affect 0.13 per cent of (approx 40k) Canadians.
They need you to sympathize with the wealthy, or the whole facade falls, so they make it seem like it has an effect on their lives, too
I'm more shocked that even a 1/3 of people are familiar with its details.
I’m so full of rage I have regular outbursts against our Premier.
Goddamn you Doug Ford! There I go again
The one thing that has really helped my rage issues these days is to stay off of social media and avoid going to certain subreddits or reading the comments. Even reduced my news consumption by 90% and has had such an impact.
I've just been spending more time hanging out with my friends and family and enjoying where we live and it's been really nice and refreshing. Been able to spend a lot of time outside and interacting with others who are the same. I live right in Toronto and people are so much more friendly and hospitable then what everyone makes it out to be. It's great just walking around our community, going for coffee and interacting with everyone :)
Social media & “news” media are a blight upon mankind
Everyone outside of Canada thinks this is the best country in the world while everyone inside thinks it's the worst lmao
LOL absolutely not. Maybe those from 3rd world or war torn countries. Definitely not those who came from EU.
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25d
So how are you enjoying that Ram 1500? Does the black paint hide scratches?
I always wondered if it helped hide their shame.
Tell me you have a F Trudeau bumper sticker on your truck without telling me you have an F Trudeau bumper sticker on your truck.
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25d
lmao
Rage index is funny to me for some reason lol
I'm fucking mad.. everyday.. im 40.. and remember a time where my mom raised me as a single mother.. she had a great job but none the less did it alone without any child support because she didn't require it..
The cost of everything.. bat fucking shit crazy.. and im right sick of it.. I make 33 damn bucks an hour and my wife makes 35 and I legit questioned if I could afford steak on the weekend..
Like jfc.. people can't even afford to buy good meals.. u know with unprocessed meat.. not frozen vegetables..
I'm straight furious with everything and everyone.
No wonder people are miserable because when I look at our annual household income compaired to everyone else.. I'm in the 80th fucking percentile... so 80% of people are worse off then us and I'm worried about food..
Fuck right off government.. u have 100% fucked us over
I'm 40 too, and a single mother in Toronto. (I can't afford to get out of this city as much as I wish I could) I work 60 hours a week but I can still barely afford rent or food. I am mad at everything. I used to be a happy person but now it's just work, stress, misery and anger.
I'm in Ontario with 1 kid and my wife and I make 200k combined and I honestly don't know how many others including my friends are even surviving
I am close to the same age as you
Yet Poilievre and Ford ride high in the polls. Clearly Canadians want the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer...they keep voting for libertarian economics.
It's like when people don't vote we get stuck with a former drug dealer, high school drop out who has ties to organized crime as our premier. I still think it surprises me more that people vote for this clown.
Social media...it's a hell of a drug. Sophisticated and targeted campaigns trigger and enrage the right, pushing them to the polls, while the left are told their leaders all massively suck and there's no hope, encouraging them to stay home on election day.
I hate Doug too, but it's important to get these things right and not spread misinformation. He is not a high school drop out. He finished high school and started some college, but dropped out to work in the family business sticker factory.
He was handed his career and took over the business. His little brother paved the way into politics too and created the Ford Nation brand, so he earned nothing politically. He's been given everything in life without having to do any work.
These clowns throw scraps at them, which the poor grab at e.g. drivers license fees, as they're desperate.
Don't underestimate the huge roll that unaccountable social media plays in all of this. Sophisticated and targeted disinformation campaigns trigger and enrage the right (Trudeau's criminal immigrants live for free in luxury homes while you live on the street!!!!) and discourage the left from going to the polls (Hey, I'm as left as you are but Trudeau and Singh are both such massive pieces of shit!!). Elections are being stolen, in real time, right now, on Reddit and across the internet, but the same bad actors who run the disinformation campaigns will put out mass 'Censorship!!' and 'But ma freedumbs!!' messaging the second any suggestion is made to rein them in. Voters who fall for this marketing are just as much to blame, as Ford or Poilievre who benefit from this widespread election interference.
https://news.osu.edu/conservatives-more-susceptible-to-believing-falsehoods/
https://www.reddit.com/r/alberta/comments/1b1vvms/did_reddit_yearend_recaps_expose_russian/
You see this take bewilders me. We can quite clearly see which Governments have been in power during this whole debacle. Groceries, fuel, and in general the overall cost of living aren't much cheaper (if at all) compared to average local wages in non-Conservative led provinces compared to Conservative led provinces. People are struggling all throughout the country, which shows that the argument that it's all the fault of Conservative Provincial Governments is false. Of course they are clearly in part responsible, but so are your Municipal and Federal branches.
It's not exactly surprising that as we're struggling people are lashing out wanting change. In reality do you think everyone polling for PP wants the rich to get richer and they get poorer? No, obviously not. Especially considering all the talk of the Conservatives taking on a larger share of working class voters.
What people want is to bring in business capital -- which is the real face of the taxing corporations less (or giving incentives) argument. There is no real answer to this for the working class now that outsourcing is an extremely efficient corporate weapon. You want to increase taxes and deter business here? That's fine, just don't be surprised when once again, a bunch of these jobs either become automated, or head off-shores, and now your social/support spending balloons to keep these folks fed and off the street. Yes, I also understand that we do need to be able to tax them enough to help provide a government budget, not just off the backs of the working class, but again, this whole subject is touchy, because if another country offers these companies a better deal to produce goods there -- they probably will move at least some (if not all) of their operations there. The usual reaction there is some kind of outburst of fine -- we won't buy your products...which doesn't happen due to consumer demand for lower priced goods.
This whole thing is a massive headache to be honest with you. As poverty and wealth inequality continue throughout the world, I really don't see how we aren't getting primed up for another large scale conflict.
We can quite clearly see which Governments have been in power during this whole debacle.
Yes, all the way back to the Mulroney/Reagan/Thatcher era when libertarian economics, with its union and wage suppression (economic globalization and free trade), tax cuts for the rich, cutting of services and social safety nets, deregulation and the rise of corporate political power, and the whole trickle-down bs. The first nail in the coffin of the middle class.
Groceries, fuel, and in general the overall cost of living aren't much cheaper (if at all) compared to average local wages in non-Conservative led provinces compared to Conservative led provinces.
Largely irrelevant. Liberal premiers are no more likely to set prices on commodities than libertarian conservative premiers. Conservatives are just more blatant about representing the interests of the wealthy. This issue has taken decades to come into being...no single political elite is solely to blame.
...the argument that it's all the fault of Conservative Provincial Governments is false.
Copy and paste where i said anything about "Conservative Provincial Governments ". I'm talking about the massive harm leveled by libertarian economics, and yes, conservative governments have by far done the most damage pushing libertarian policies, economic and social, but even Trudeau is largely neoliberal in his economic policies
...do you think everyone polling for PP wants the rich to get richer and they get poorer? No, obviously not.
The wealthy certainly are. Obviously not so for those struggling...they're buying into immigrants are the problem and Trudeau's a Chinese mole messaging. Social media, it's a hell of a drug.
taxing corporations less (or giving incentives) argument...etc etc etc...folks fed and off the street.
All this bad is happening anyway, regardless. Corporations are the new aristocracy, we are living in a de facto oligarchy. If you want this trend to continue and get even worse, keep voting conservative. If you want any hope at all of reversing the trend, stop voting conservative. Pick a lane, people.
As poverty and wealth inequality continue throughout the world, I really don't see how we aren't getting primed up for another large scale conflict.
Of course we are, and guess who the canon fodder will be (hint: It won't be anyone in Galen's family). The wealthy are way ahead of us....they think they have it all figured out...
https://www.cnn.com/style/article/doomsday-luxury-bunkers/index.html
I understand what you're saying, I'm familiar with everything you've just stated, it's just that in all reality the choices we end up being presented with tend to be bullshit. What party would you like to see in power? I've been an NDP voter for a while, but I cannot in good conscience vote for them any longer -- this is going to delve into a debate of short term pain vs long term recovery. We cannot have leadership that continually uses temporary bandages and crutches while making our money less productive. At some point in time we are going to need to spur economic development and have people earn their living with work, not continuously recycle tax payer money to cover shortcomings, because this creates a new floor of reliance, which will undoubtedly be used against us in the form of lower wages.
At the end of the day globalism is being utilized against each individual country, and barring some form of agreement en masse between countries to combat this, I don't see how we effectively take -- and keep the ball out of the court of corporations, while having them keep jobs around to allow for careers for citizens for the duration of their working years. The only thing I think can possibly work is EXTREME anti-trust laws being implemented (again), as it's really the only way to walk back the economy from end game monopoly to mid-game monopoly. Government stimulation for competitors is just going to result in public funds enriching a few people before they get bought up by bigger players (if they don't get run out of business via bigger players pricing them out).
Trudeau has been prime minister since 2015. Happiness and quality of life has declined over the last 9 years across Canada
You got to be pretty young and naïve to believe that. Libertarian economics have been driving the widening wealth gap and economic degradation since Mulroney/Reagan/Thatcher and their globalization, tax cuts for the rich, cutting services and 'trickle-down' schemes. There is probably no better evidence of just how dumb and easy to manipulate people can be than the fact they're about to vote in yet another hard core libertarian, who promises to fix all the problems his kind have caused by doing more of the same. The decline is everywhere that went with libertarian economics, not just Canada...did Trudeau cause the declines in the US and UK as well?
I don’t understand what your point is? Is 9 years including a majority in many not enough time to improve the country?
Go back and read it slower then. Don't troll me with vague claims and innuendo.
Try voting next time Ontario.
100% this
This important dimension should have been part of the survey. Can't complain or be angry if you didn't go vote.
This is exactly what my Mom always taught me! You do not get to complain about your shitty government if you didn’t even bother to vote. If you don’t vote, you don’t count, and that’s your choice.
Voting doesn't matter, it's all rigged, Gaston and his kin are pulling the strings, it's all trickle down neoliberalism from France.
That’s what happens when your quality of life plummets
I suppose that makes sense, we've got an several idiots at the federal level, and an several idiots at the provincial level... Double whammy.
People have an outrage addiction and a lot less empathy these days so I’m not surprised. Just in case anyone doesn’t know, we can have political and ideological differences but still get along and respect each other. Let’s not go down the road of the US please.
Yeah growing up in Manitoba then meeting people from Ontario is fucking night and day, I thought manitobans were assholes but it's like 9 in every 10 people from Ontario are huge cunts for no reason.
The 1 out of 10 are real good people though.
Rightly so. This province isn't being responsibly governed, to say the least
Good thing the Liberals aren’t in charge of Ontario, they would tax our rage and make it worse.
I'm in Ontario. DoFo is making me crazy. BonnieC is not grabbing my attention. Trudeau is on his way out. PPollievre appears to be a populist trash bag. I have no idea where the NDP are at either a Ontario or Federal level, but they will not gain power in my lifetime - IMHO. Voting Green seems to be as bad as not voting. Interesting choices - no. Rage or despair are all that appear to be my choices.
Yet idiotic Ontarian's keep voting blue and expecting change...
To be fair, most of Ontario doesn’t vote
Also idiots.
Absolutely
Rage breeds more rage
I’m sure it has nothing to do with the former hash dealer premier stealing funds and helping his campaign contributors who just happen to be Italian contractors “definitely not the mafia” who he opened the green belt for
Give Ford to Alberta that should make Ontario a bit happier
We can't live without rage-ahol!
There's a lot of things that were doing right, funding mental health, renewables, research in pharma, tech, batteries, etc., investing in housing starts, making it easier for first time buyers... the problem is none of that matters because of the massive levels of immigration that have forced untenable rises in the cost of everything. Housing and food are most acutely felt, but everything. People can deal with some things being expensive, but when basic needs like shelter and food are breaking your budget then the anger starts to rise.
Some sort of explanation on why this level of immigration was deemed necessary would be nice. I suspect it's to do with our aging population and keeping tax revenues flowing to maintain a healthy population pyramid... but you know, we're adults, lets talk about it. Lets talk about all the options. Cuts, redirecting funds, raising taxes, anything. Not just flood our cities and hope it works out. Would you rather a 3% tax increase to fund OAS and LTC homes, or 25% inflation over 3 years?
Also as mad as I am about all of that, Ford's destruction of Ontario's health, environmental and education systems is equally rage inducing. It's a shit show at both provincial and federal levels.
It was to shut up people trying to unionize and demand proper pay. Canadians weren't spending enough, so they pumped more people in to make it seem more dire for us all in the hope we start jumping through hoops again for our billionaire overlords.
LTC homes need workers. And a majority of our immigration is not meeting our employment needs. We are not attracting the type of workers we require.
exactly, whats the strategy here. nothing seems connected or planned
I am very outraged 😀
To be fair, if any of the other provinces had Ford as their leader they'd be pretty pissed too
Really? I would have guessed Alberta or Quebec for sure.
Wow who woulda thought half a decade of corporate conservative leadership would piss off a province with a majority progressive population?
Poilievre's most important index for guiding his campaign.
I've been part of these surveys for a couple of years, and most of them are driving the answers. Sometimes it's shameful. When the question is already negative and the answers are already directing you to a specific area, it means these polls are just crap. There are only a limited number of outlets that are trying to be neutral.
Rage in Ontario hey! Lol
Makes sense.
They’ve been eating American right wing propaganda for years. These Americans interfere more in our politics than everyone else combined.
Rage one day, apathy the next. Rotate randomly.
PP's master plan is working!
So quit letting asinine policies be pushed through and fight back. Coming to Reddit to rage out doesn't solve anything. Also, quit shooting yourself in the foot by not voting and keeping the usless politicians who put utopian views ahead of your well-being out of office.
The political extreme vote in droves, that's why we have such stupid policies being enacted. Remember, it's OK to vote who is going g to best for you and your fellow citizens. You don't have to paint your face with political colors and die on thst hill.
ITT; people who didint read the article or the poll but want to use the headline to project their own world views.
We need to fire Doug Ford.
Too bad it isn't being turned on the source of oh so many of our problems: Doug Ford and his Mobster friends...
Censored.
Your provincial government is responsible for the things that people are angry about like healthcare and housing. Maybe look at what they're doing with a bit more scrutiny and a little less political bias.
There's no political bias as all political parties support the mass immigration policy. Canada has the population growth rate of a 3rd world country.
People are angry at the Feds because they imported way too many low skilled workers from one country in the disguise of international students from diploma mills. That trickles down to higher unemployment for Canadians, unaffordable housing, and overtaking of infrastructure.
The feds didn't import people. The way it works is the colleges and universities accept students and then those students apply for student visas which is just a formality after they've been accepted. The feds have no mechanism to say no unless that person raises red flags.
Even setting limits is difficult because you're dealing with a dozen provinces/territories and 1000s of institutions. How would you administer that from the top down with nearly endless considerations? Setting limits on how many hours they can work is one of the few options available to the feds. Everything else is out of their hands. Demand more from your provincial leaders than inaction and finger pointing.
They're pretty obviously talking about immigration.
You mean the people coming into the country in the form of students and tfws. Those are demands made by the provinces that are fulfilled by the feds.
Maybe ask the provinces why they cut funding to colleges and universities and forced them to rely on international students to make up the difference.
While you're at it ask them why they are requesting tfws in massive numbers for industry while shrugging their shoulders about the effects of that as well.
Correct. All to blame. Also, I am quite active in voicing my displeasure to all levels it just becomes harder the higher in government you go. Best shot we have is voting PPC enough to actually signal the desire for change. PP and JT are on the same side on this issue.
Yeah no thank you. The PPC is going to be worse than the Conservatives on all these issues. Being subservient to oligarchs is just a speedrun to complete ruination. See Russia.
PPC won't win, it's just a signal of displeasure of the other parties. I mean who would you possibly vote for federally? They're all garbage. We need to demand better.
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Please explain. The feds gave Ontario close to 3 billion dollars at the beginning of covid to offset the surge of healthcare demand but we've seen a steady decline in healthcare spending and quality ever since. That doesn't add up unless you realize that Ford's conservatives are trying to break healthcare in order to privatize as much as possible. How is this in any way the feds fault??!?
Housing is a provincial/municipal responsibility. The only influence the feds have is to directly fund affordable housing for municipalities and the provinces threw a hissy fit about that. Why? Because housing is only a problem for those who need it. The people who own all the properties are doing more than fine. Conservatives don't care about the shortages because they drive up values and profits. If they do anything towards fixing housing they will have some very upset donors. They don't give a rats ass about renters otherwise they wouldn't have gotten rid of rent control.
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I would like to point out that nobody controls Bank of Canada and the interest rates they decided to set.
How could you write so much and be so wrong????
How are you being censored?!? Lmao
Who said anything about covid? Covid has little to do with this.
Healthcare is pretty closely tied to spending. If you don't put money into it then it becomes a problem. Pretty clear right?
This trend has been occurring since the 1960s. Funny how Ford and Mike Harris takes the blame.
Not sure how this supports your argument. Conservatives have been underfunding healthcare for decades. Yes.
Funny how Pierre at federal level is pretty heavy into fixing housing. This new problem is nationwide. There's clear and obvious policies from the federal government causing this problem.
What has PP said exactly about housing other than 'he'll fix it'? The conservatives have offered only vague promises and zero policy.
Major increases on taxation directly affecting housing. Fed controls bank rates and immigration numbers? All federal decisions.
Maybe if you were a bit more detailed in your explanation here but 'increases in taxation directly affecting housing' is just nonsense. If you're talking about capital gains then you have to consider that allowing people to use properties as investments needs limits.
The Bank of Canada controls rates which is not the federal government. Immigration numbers are demands made by the provinces and industry. The feds don't import people, it's more that they agree to demands. Any provincial leader could drastically cut immigration numbers tomorrow by reducing their demands if they weren't too busy enjoying the benefits of it while also blaming the feds for the problems caused.
Sounds like a fox news headline lol.
Not saying what you can do, just vaguely saying what the other guys are doing and you should be mad about it lol.
"Ontario is highly buffered so Ontario is the target of harm for the Federal government" is shit reasoning, lol
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Ontario is 99% immigrants, as it has been for 300 years.
I’ve grown up in Toronto, and only in the last 2 years have I noticed the absence of English being spoken when I’m in public. Something is definitely different now.
I am brown, and I feel out of place and overwhelmed by the recent strain of immigrants, can’t imagine what other Canadians are going through.
Really, I hung out In TO 20+ years ago, and it was really common to hear other languages...
I said “absence of English” … you don’t hear English being spoken at all, in some places
And that scares you for some reason?
it doesn’t scare me. it’s annoying as fuck.
It’s the same way the Dutch feel about all the immigrants speaking English instead of assimilating in Dutch. Some of us want to preserve the native language of the country, or is that racist ?
Lol. No, but it's a convenient scape goat.
Hiiii guys!! I’m pretty happy, very fortunate to be living in the west. I know things aren’t perfect but it’s still better than the majority of other places in the world.
High interest rates could have been avoided by some if they chose a fixed rate mortgage. Signed in early 2022 right before going and had people asking why I didn't go variable.
Being told that everything is broken all the time will certainly have that effect.
I would like to organize something, let’s put you and my friend in a cage and then you tell them that Canada is not broken and that all his problems living on the poverty line are just in his head
I’ve posted this elsewhere but 1) trying to pin housing costs on immigration is essentially avoiding 95% of the problem. 2) Ford and other premiers have to bear a lot of the blame for high immigration numbers. They are the ones that know and decide how many they can accommodate and are constantly shouting for more. Even now, when there is a lot of negative attention around mass immigration, they are asking for more without investing in social institutions and infrastructure enough to accommodate them. Just in the last few weeks we’ve seen the Ford government hasn’t been doing anything to facilitate home building and the apparently they aren’t concerned about the number of doctors in the province. The role of the federal government is to manage the processes of getting immigrants into the country. Look at the Quebec government and how they are the only ones actually complaining about the number of immigrants that they have to take. Right now the provinces have it pretty sweet because Trudeau is so hated that people aren’t interested in exploring the possibility his government isn’t the whole problem.
Feds could make drastic changes to how investment properties are taxed to make them extremely unattractive to mom and pop landlords. There are thousands of empty units in Toronto right now. We need to put them to better use.
I agree, there are many changes that could be made to make real estate investing less attractive small time investors. I’ve been saying for years that we’ve regulated risk right out of home ownership so much that it’s inevitable it will be too valuable for average people to own. The problem is nobody is asking for that to happen so why would a government take that action?
They wont. But it is a more immediate fix than hoping density is built.
I know you want to blame Ford and he can definitely do better but this is a Canada-wide problem. We need a fix that can be applied Canada-wide and that has to come from the top
You’re misunderstanding me and doing the thing that gets in the way of having discussion. I don’t really care about who is to blame, I only care about fixing the problem and that can’t be done if you can’t agree on the problem. If housing costs are your main concern you have to look at how it got to this point and it goes way beyond immigration, which is just population growth. In my mind there needs to be more balance between the viability of renting vs owning and as long as policy so heavily favours ownership, investment money will flow there and the average person can’t expect to be able to afford it in desirable places.
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"Rage" seems like too gentle of a word.