I am considering re-joining the church. For those of you who have left/lost faith, what evidence made you do that? I feel that the LDS church is right, but I don't want to be lying to myself.

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You guys probably had some pretty darn good reasons to leave, what are those reasons?

I’m sure this sentence is completely sincere—but I need to note that this is flawed thinking. I want to just say a few words about the epistemology you (and I both)were raised with that can keep us trapped in illogical thinking.

It’s a logical fallacy to shift the burden of proof onto ExMormons to disprove Mormonism. I note this because this is very much what I also believed based on growing up in the Church. But you wouldn’t apply this standard to anything else in your life—and especially not other religions. Consider your own comments about other religions above—you’re not looking for reasons those religions aren’t true, you’re just assuming they are because you don’t have a good reason to believe they’re true. Right? If so, then you’re engaged in a separate logical fallacy of special pleading by using one standard for one proposition and another for competing ones.

Again, I feel your sincerity and offer these comments just as a helpful indication of the flawed thinking we were taught when we were young. The real question you should ultimately be asking yourself is whether you have a good reason to believe in Mormonism—not disbelieve in it. If you care about whether your beliefs are true, by good you should require some type of evidence directly connected to whether Mormonism is actually, in fact, true. This means the question isn’t whether Mormonism is good, or useful, or meaningful to you—it’s whether its claims about reality match reality. At least, that is, if you really care about truth.

Ultimately I determined to leave the Church because believing Mormonism’s claims would put me in contradiction to reality on too many things. Basically any novel predictions Mormonism makes are either disproven or unfalsifiable. Beyond that, though, I wouldn’t associate with the Church any longer simply based on its child sex abuse policies and its unbelievable dishonesty (by their own standards) over tithing (not to mention its admitted violations of Securities Law last year). There’s no God I’d care to believe in that would speak through these types of leaders—who demonstrate nothing inspiring to me aside from their inability to show an ounce of shame or accountability.

If you wanted a “smoking gun,” I think probably understanding the Book of Abraham controversies, as well as what Joseph’s misunderstandings of Egyptian means for the Book of Abraham is as close as I’ve seen. Again, if you care whether Mormonism is actually true, that is.

Any people with positive testaments for the church would also help me decide whether or not to come back. Thanks!

Definitely a good place to ask for information from all sides. I’d just caution you to remember the pieces above about epistemology. Ask yourself whether the “positive testaments” you’ll receive relate to the actual truth of the Church’s claims. Or if you determine you care more about whether it’s meaningful, or whatever—just make sure any input you receive lines up with your ultimate goals.

I left with very little of the typical Exmo evidence, though I read later. I left because I began learning more about healthy relationships and power dynamics, boundaries, and gender dynamics. I started feeling used as a person, tossed aside as a woman, and useless as a child of god since I couldn't be what I was always told to be. I finally realized why all the things that irritated me in young women's irritated me: blatant misogyny as a means of exerting and maintaining control. I felt worthless.

I stopped feeling worthless when I left.

I left entirely over the evidence.

The evidences against the Church that were most convincing to me were:

1. The Book of Abraham is a false translation of the Egyptian papyri Joseph claimed as its source.

2. The Book of Mormon is full of anachronistic material, showing it can't be a genuine ancient text--parallels to Joseph Smith's environment and 19th century sources (the mound builder myth, Joseph Smith's father's dream, protestant religious phraseology etc.), the numerous places it quotes Bible passages that, according to the Book of Mormon timeline, hadn't been written yet, Deutero-Isaiah, etc.

3. DNA evidence showing the ancestors of Native Americans came from Asia many thousands of years ago, not from the Middle East in 600 BC.

4. False prophecies by Joseph Smith and other Church leaders.

5. Plagiarism of parts of the temple ceremony from Freemasonry.

6. Joseph Smith going after, and illegally marrying, other men’s wives and teenage girls, claiming he was doing so in the name of God.

7. The LDS Church’s history of blatant racism, banning black people from the priesthood until 1978.

If you want to do the deep dive on these issues and more, here are some sources I can recommend:

https://cesletter.org/CES-Letter.pdf

http://utlm.org/onlinebooks/pdf/mormonismshadoworreality_digital.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxq5opj6GqOB7J1n6pMmdUSezxcLfsced

You're making a false comparison between those who have left and those who stay. You're comparing the worst of one with the best of the other. Surely it's clear that there are plenty of happy fulfilled humans on this planet both in and out of Mormonism. There are also a healthy population of miserable people in and out. A proper comparison would have you comparing the happy, fulfilled non-Mormons or Ex-Mormons with the happy fulfilled Mormons. And compare the miserable ones in each to each other.

My suggestion is that you don't have access to the kind of information that would give you that type of accurate comparison. What you see on the outside isn't an accurate determination for how people feel on the inside.

Myself and others former Mormons would have told you that we were happy in it back when we were active, but that's only because it's almost impossible to admit that you're not and move forward within it. Looking back, we realize we were lying to ourselves. I've experienced every kind of life enhancement outside of Mormonism without the great personal cost of remaining in it. Everything good about Mormonism is available outside it and for much less personal cost.

The evidence I had for leaving was merely because the Mormon faith itself doesn't live up to the standards that it teaches. I found I could live a more moral life without it.

If you believe the church is true, good for you. Do what makes you happy.

I personally could not stay in. The way the church handles their finances, treats LGBTQ+ people and women, handles abuse within their ranks, and historically changed their mind on doctrine led me to believe that it could not be led by God.

Joseph Smith himself was problematic enough for me that I also could not believe him to be chosen and supported by the God the church claims to worship.
He lied, committed fraud, committed adultery, and abused the authority others gave to him.

A few more specific issues:

• The Book of Abraham is not a translation of the Egyptian artifacts the church claims it to be from (they’re funerary texts).
  
• Church leaders lied about the method by church Joseph translated the BoM- the rock in hat
  
• Racism was taught as doctrine and somehow God didn’t stop it, despite the church claiming to stand for truth even when the world’s against it
  
• The sexism in the temple was astounding, and has only been improved because the world’s culture improved
  

I can go on, but I’ll leave it there.
Basically, I could not in good conscience support the church.

I don’t think 8 year olds are old enough to make informed decisions and 14 year olds aren’t easier. I wasted almost 60 years inside Mormonism. It ruined everything and everyone around me. It’s a myth on top of countless lies.

Enjoy being 14. Be a good person, be kind, do things to learn and serve. You don’t need a fantasy novel that began with a rock in a hat to make you treat others well.

All of the things that make your LDS relatives "successful" exist outside of the church. All of the "issues" your relatives experience happen inside of the church, too. The church is not the end-all-be-all to a happy and stable life.

As for why I left: I began to see members act as if God demanded bigotry in order to be righteous, which didn't square with who I thought God was. It's hard to see the church as "good" when blatant racism, sexism, and homophobia is shared from the pulpit every week... That stuff legitimately harms people.

Two have ended up being less fulfilled than their LDS relatives, being alcoholic or abusing sexual relationships, and ending up with kids and no husband.

You know that you can avoid alcohol without being LDS, right? I hear being straight edge and mocktails are becoming more popular with young people these days. You know that you can avoid toxic relationships without being LDS, right? There are a lot of decent people out there, just learn how to avoid the others.

...with all my family going back to the 1800s believing in the LDS church, it is pretty hard to choose anything else.

If you had a friend that was Jehovah's Witness that said a similar thing to you, how would you respond? This is called a false dichotomy. There are numerous other religions out there that you could be a part of (or not), I hope that you would try to identify the positive and negative aspects of any one of them before you commit to join it. Also why do you feel like you have to choose right now?

I also love the LDS lifestyle that is the blueprint for all my successful relatives's families.

Is it possible that the reason that the LDS lifestyle works for them is because they are wealthy (so 10% of their income given to church as tithing doesn't mean that they cannot afford to pay their bills) and they are heterosexual (meaning the church isn't telling them that they can't be who they are)? This is a form of survivorship bias.

I ask, why would anyone want to belong to a church that doesn't allow women to lead congregations only because they are women? Sounds like a shitty church to me.

I think the Book of Abraham issue is the most compelling argument against the church. Today there are many LDS who now adopt the catalyst theory that the books content was given by revelation.

I’m all for anyone staying, as long as it’s an informed decision. Most of us never got that chance.

It sounds like you're searching for meaning, stability, and purpose. There are a lot of churches and philosophies that offer some of that.

In my opinion, if you're looking at going back to the church, you should figure out whether it's true or not first. Did the things in the Book of Mormon actually happen? Do Native Americans descend from middle easterners? Do we find civilizations in the historical record in the new world that looked like the people in the Book of Mormon (they had horses, sheep, pigs, barley, steel making, etc.). If those claims are true, then maybe the church is worth looking at. If those claims aren't true, maybe it's a better idea going somewhere else.

 I also love the LDS lifestyle that is the blueprint for all my successful relatives's families.

I really hope you don’t have any LGBTQ kids after choosing to join the church. 

I read about Joseph’s polygamy and the use of the seer stone in the translation of the BoM and those two topics alone were enough for me. I had graduated from seminary and institute and had never learned either of these facts. Next was the Book of Abraham and all of the anachronisms in the Book of Mormon. I knew after that the religion was completely made up. Since then the list has just continued to grow and I realized I was raised in what I consider a relatively insignificant fundamentalist religion with no evidence to support it.

At the same time I also noticed that my perfect Mormon family was so fake. My sisters had no identities outside of the church. They were closed off to the rest of the world and knew only what the church taught them. My brothers worried about what callings they had and how they were perceived. All of them actually had issues but did not talk about it because it would make them appear less perfect. I feel like they have just as many issues as nonmembers or people who have left they just don’t acknowledge it.

Lastly was the church’s teachings don’t align with what I feel a loving God would want for his children. So much of the love is conditional on his children doing certain things that aren’t really important like paying tithing, temple worship, wearing garments, spending hours on Sundays in a building. Why does God care about any of that, especially when 99.8% of his children who live on this earth know nothing of it.

I have found way more peace and spirituality outside of Mormonism than I ever felt in the 40+ years I was a part of it.

For me, it was all the sexual abuse cases I learned about last year, where the church took an active role in keeping the situation from being brought to the authorities. It enabled and protected pedophiles.

No scripture, no doctrine, policy, quote by a leader, issue with the Book of Mormon, or anything else, could fix that one.

If God himself showed up to me.pwrsonally and said "I told the leaders of the church it was okay to set up a system where kids xoild be abused so the church didn't look bad,"

...

I wouldn't worship that God, because that God is no better than a devil.

Whether or not the gospel may be true, I don't need a church whose leadership tells us about the subtle nuances of God's law while at the same time flagrantly and knowingly breaking clear and obvious financial laws in the US and other countries.

Have you asked your parents why they chose to leave? I highly suggest doing that and if that’s not enough read the CES letter.

Is she cute?

I really believed in Joseph Smith, but to believe all his teachings, I had to reject much of the church’s current teachings. Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and Russell M. Nelson contradict each other so much that I could not see them representing the same God. At most, only one could be right, and it didn’t make sense for it to be Russell M. Nelson. Today, I doubt that Joseph Smith was a prophet (for various historical reasons), but even if he were, I am confident that Russell M. Nelson is not.

I bet you live in Utah because if you lived anywhere else you’d have plenty of examples of successful non-Mormons, as well as seeing the majority of non-Mormons not abusing their kids or being alcoholics.

If you lived in an Amish area, you’d be writing this exact same post with Amish substituted for LDS. Why is it that so many people “feel” that the religion around them is the correct one? People born in Islamic families tend to feel that it is true just as much or more than your feeling. So maybe feelings aren’t a good way to decide?

The main reason we left is to protect our gay son. The church’s hateful rhetoric and policies left him traumatized so we had to protect him. By the time he was your age he had attempted suicide three times - all because he learned he would not be with his family in Eternity if he “acted on” being gay.

My other issue with Mormonism was polygamy and its deep ties to the temple. Smith used the Sealing to coerce parents to give him their daughters. He offered Emma to be the first female endowed if she would accept polygamy. All of the temple ceremonies were kept within his secret polygamy group until he died.

Is that the behavior of a Prophet, bringing the world these saving ordinances? I don’t think so. It was a manipulative fantasy to gather brides.

You don’t have to decide today. You’re still a kid. There are many paths to connect with God. Ultimately that is a personal relationship and Mormonism does not allow for that.

Strange. This doesn’t sound like a 14yo.

The short answer for me was the positive claims that the church makes about itself don’t hold up and the evidence against the church being what it claims is overwhelming.

The Book of Abraham is indistinguishable from a fraud if you follow the apologetic arguments. - The BoA claims to be a book written by Abraham on the papyrus Joseph had in his possession and identified as being from Abraham. - The translation is incorrect, for example the perfectly legible Egyptian characters in Facsimile 3 in your quad do not say the words Joseph says they do on that same page in your quad. - The papyrus cannot possibly date back to Abraham, and the papyrus we have is a common funeral text in perfectly legible Egyptian, which the church also states in their gospel topics essay. - The history of Egypt in the BoA is laughably incorrect, and there’s also plenty of 19th century influence such as the use of the Adam Clarke Bible commentary and doctrines that fit the beliefs of the apocrypha (ancient books that didn’t make it into the Bible) about Abraham. - To get around this the church claims it was just an inspiration so to speak and not written by Abraham, but Joseph was writing in the first person for Abraham. - That would be completely impossible on its own merits to distinguish between Jospeh making it up or it coming from God.

Polygamy is also messy which made me uneasy. - The implementation follows manipulation and coercion (Lucy Walker, Mary Rollings Lightner), - sets the precedent that leaders can publicly teach something as official doctrine of the church but secretly the real doctrine is something different, - sexual relations are ok as long as you’re sealed even if the other person is still married (Zina Jacobs/Smith/Young), - sets the precedent that prophets can disobey commandments and still be right in the eyes of God (Nancy Rigdon happiness letter) meaning prophets are unfalsifiable

Racial issues with the priesthood and temple ban for those of African descent sets some dangerous precedents as well. - prophets can establish false doctrine that effects the ability for people to be exalted (make it to the highest degree of the celestial kingdom). - future prophets can change doctrine indicating the older prophets were incorrect - we therefore cannot know with certainly whether a current doctrine of the church is from God or just the prophets personal thoughts. That defeats the whole purpose of there even being a prophet and the whole purpose of the church being restored!

The BoM does not stand up to scrutiny. - The translation process is indistinguishable from a fraud. Joseph used the same process of looking at a rock in a hat that he used to unsuccessfully find buried treasure from fictitious Spanish silver mines in upstate New York. - DNA studies indicate no middle eastern DNA from 600 BC Israel (I’m specific because haplogroup X is argued as evidence but it’s thousands of years before the Israelite DNA were looking for and split off into the dna we find is Africa, Europe, and Asia meaning it’s hopelessly irrelevant in our case). The church simply tries to make it seem like we can’t possibly know even though we have found DNA from groups of similar sizes that trade their lineage to Israel. - the best evidence for the BoM is indistinguishable from 19th century oral techniques (Chiasmus/hebraisms), the old world geography almost being possible (the route from Jerusalem to the land bountiful, which the distances are too far even for camels to make in the number of days in the terrain), the NHM site called Nihm almost matching Nahom and having a place where people who died in the area are buried, and Joseph being too dumb to be able to write it even though there’s so many errors or elements influenced by Joseph’s life/surroundings that it looks exactly like what you’d expect it to if he dictated it. - the evidence against the BoM is overwhelming. Anachronisms such as horses indicate the book couldn’t have taken place when the book says it does (evidence you will find for horse bones are thousands of years off of the BoM time and irrelevant). Chapters in Isaiah not written before Lehi left Jerusalem are included, parts of Mark that were added hundreds of years after Jesus was alive are also included, and honestly pretty much the whole book is out of place and there’s something anachronistic on almost every page.

Moroni’s promise never was fulfilled. - I obsessively spent over 5 years trying to find god through the BoM. He never gave me the witness of the BoM that was promised or any indication he was there.

So to summarize, the promises of the church were not met. The scriptures, teachings, and doctrines of the church are indistinguishable from being fraudulent or just made up.

When it was all said and done, I finally threw in the towel. For the first time in my life I let myself consider the church could be true or not true, rather than just assuming that it was true and seeking confirmation of that.

The church was also not working for me at all at the time either, but I hung on for years despite great stress and negative impact on my life for doing so because the church was true, right? It couldn’t not be. But I needed the spiritual and logical conversion so I went head first into research to prove to myself the church was true and find the evidence that was there since the church was true after all. When it was all said and done, when I finally said I was done the biggest relief overcame my entire body, because I could stop trying to make something work that wasn’t working for me.

The church looks like it works really well for people until you stop fitting the box just enough to cause tension between those that fully believe and those that even have the slightest hesitation or doubt.

What do you mean that the “lds church is right”? I recommend pondering that question for a long time. How can a church be “right”?

The Lord defined HIS church this way: “Those who repent and come unto me, the same is my church.”

I’d be very cautious about placing faith in any other church being “right”, besides that one.

There are over 200 “churches” claiming to be founded by Joseph Smith. The lds church isn’t special in that claim.

If anything, their authority claims rest in Brigham Young. Go look at his life and see if that persuades you. If you are persuaded Brigham had authority from God, I guess rejoin the Utah based lds church…

Here are three videos put out by the church that might help helpful to show why people leave:

https://youtu.be/juOavkIqNng?si=a2v283dWY_xxX5b7

https://youtu.be/q1esI8cbCtc?si=Luv2GGLS5TDo0FSB

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2018-09-1050-why-was-it-necessary-for-joseph-smith-and-others-to-practice-polygamy?lang=eng

Don't do it, they'll just recruit you to go on a mission and "Preach the Restoration and Book of Mormon". As one that was raised in the Church and Served a "Honorable Full-time Mission in the Philippines from 2004-2006... I'll tell you it was the worst decision of my life, other than being baptized at 8 yrs old. I'm now Catholic and got baptized Easter Saturday earlier this year. I wish I was never Mormon, and have only seen bad things happen to those that try to follow it.. like myself. If you want to be cursed for joining and getting to know Mormon Jesus, than by all means, consider yourself warned. I'm totally being honest... If I had a time machine and could go back to me at 17yrs old - I'd tell myself of all the bad things that would happen to myself and my family and my friends for being and believing Mormonism. Mormonism will use you and abuse you - it will use your youth then chew you up and spit you out when you get older - it's a lie, that if you obey, you will prosper in the land - the church is built upon lies that it sweeps under the rug. Please be smarter than myself and stay away until you're over at least 28yrs old - then if you want.. you can test the waters when you understand life a little better.

The history of the lds church and the changing doctrine.

1st let me say I tried to post a message about blind faith, but it was sensored. Just because someone states that they are lds, or is active in the church doesn't mean trust them without question. But my posts were brought down.

I'm not sure if these sentiments will withstand sensoring.

I left and dont regret it. I was raised lds until I was 30ish. In 2008 the church put millions if not billions to fight equality for gay marriage. And that went against every bone in my body. What Christian tells another person who they love is evil. Love cannot equal evil.... not in my world.

And to add insult to injury... my molester was trusted, of course, he was Mormon. While my favorite uncle was not trusted. . ..he was gay. My favorite uncle took his own life, he was convinced that God didn't accept him.

What I wouldn't give to talk to him again, now that I know better.

The Mormon church made believe it was christ like to say horrible things to and about him. I'm sorry uncle Mike. I love you.

I would check this site out before re-joining / re-committing to the mormon faith:

https://www.mormonhandbook.com/home/first-vision-plagiarized.html

I could get past the church's troubling history if they were honest, apologized, and showed they would do better. People have been excommunicated for saying/publishing things that the church now publicly acknowledges are true.

If the church were to do the above, it probably would be a more loving place for everyone today. When one of my kids told me they might be gay, I could not then force them to go to church where people would say things like, "being gay is going against God" or "the only acceptable marriage is between a man and a woman." It used to be recommended that gay members marry a straight member in hopes that it would turn them straight. While that isn't recommended anymore, it's still assumed that people who are gay in this life will be straight in the next. There is no way I was about to let my child think I agree with those statements.

Then the way the church treats women is problematic. I remember being taught in seminary that the reason why polygamy would be required in heaven is because women are more spiritual and do not fall into sin as often. If that is the case, why is it that men hold more power and positions of authority in the church?

I tried for a very long time to make it work, but I was leaving church frustrated and angry. There came a point I just had to let go. I do keep an eye on things to see if things start to improve, but my hopes are very low for that to happen with Elder Oaks as prophet.

Our lives improved after we left. None of us have fallen into alcoholism or drug addiction, there have been no affairs. Our desire to "sin" didn't change after we left. The people who only avoid breaking the law or sinning because the church tells them not to are not better than people outside of that church. Being a good person is not exclusive to church members.

Don’t love a lie. The entire organization is built on fraud and deceit!

You have to be a Mormon plant. NO ONE GOES BACK!!!

I joined the church at age 15/16 and I enjoyed the activities and social stuff and didn’t pay too much attention to the doctrine. It wasn’t until I was much older and one of my kids came out as gay I thought crap! I just raised my kid in an extremely homophobic environment. The damage was done and although that kid is no longer affiliated with Mormonism it caused me to wonder why now they tacitly admit it’s not a choice when it was adamantly taught as a choice in the 70s and 80’s . If church leaders were wrong about that what else were they wrong about.? As far as I can tell from 10 years of studies almost everything. That said a lot of people find community in church. But if you eventually marry and have children in the faith you may have LGBTQ children and not know for many years. Also I find the purity culture they teach pretty damaging too. Honestly if I was in your position I’d wait until I was 18 to make a decision. You will have a lot more life experience by then and be better able to make an informed decision.

There's literally no evidence that the church is true. There is however mountains of evidence disproving claims made by the church and the church continually changes its own doctrine to account for fallacious claims that it's made since its beginning. Joe and his buddies probably never accounted for the Advent of the internet in avenues of information that would allow anybody to research claims that it made, but you could certainly research claims that it makes and come up with your own conclusions. Lots of people have done all the work for you. But if you just want to go to church go for it.

Don’t! Start your own church! You can have your own planet with endless celestial sex. While still drinking stimulants like delicious coffee! Read “No Man Knows My History!” And don’t rejoin! Are you nuts?!?

Darn good reasons? They are similar to the ones you have for not believing in a teapot orbiting the sun EXACTLY where we can't see it. Mormonism is not really any different. It is a pretty heavy "claim" but entirely reliant on "it's true, trust me. Have faith."

Not to seem rude, but you absolutely would be

lying to myself

Like Russell's Teapot, the claim to exist is made by the Mormons. The default is non-existence. It is on the claimant to provide any and all evidence. Every time actual Evidence has been evaluated, Mormonism has failed miserably. It isn't even that hard. Just a cursory glance at theology and Mormonism is ridiculous.

One good thing the church did for me is.... I was afraid of breaking the word of wisdom. That was an important virtue, even if fear of eternal damnation was a bit extreme. If God loves me.... a mistake at 17 wouldn't follow me through eternity.

You're 14. You have all the time in the world to figure things out.

If the church life looks better than the alternative, go for it. You could do worse.

If you're female, you're going to have a harder time though, just know that it's not equal in the gender department.

Just know we don't have all the answers and never will. They will teach you that they have everything, but you'll see through all that eventually.

Mormons are generally, clean, wholesom folk that try to do good. If that sounds good to you and you can keep a balance in your own moral compass without following blindly, you'll probably be alright.

I would wait til I’m 18 before deciding to join. In the meantime you can still attend all activities and have fun. Save the big decisions til you are legally of age to make a solid decision.

Have you talked to your parents about why they left? If you have a healthy relationship with them please talk to them. That's what I'd want my kids to do.

For me it was a crisis of conscience I couldn't stand by an organization that preached one thing and did the opposite. We are supposed to obey the law of the land and the church committed tax fraud. We are supposed to be honest with our fellow men and they committed tax fraud and covered up sex abuse cases because it's a bad look for a church bearing Christ's name. What broke me ultimately was the second anointing, the higher ups basically get a pass to commit any sin except for denying the holy Ghost and murder. This is wrong.

The relationships you speak of often look good from the outside but as someone who is from one of those picturesque families you are not taught to deal with conflict and the breakdowns behind the scenes are not something that anybody wants. The structure and community can be good but in my experience it is not worth the cost of your integrity.

If religion interests you and you believe in Christ research denominations, my suggestion is non denominational Christian. You can always take the structure and rules from religions even the LDS religion and you chose what you want to live by. Don't live by something simply because people tell you too live by it live by it because you believe in it and there is arguably evidence to support it.

CS Lewis wrote a book that's been helping me stick to my convictions (book title: Mere Christianity) it also describes Christianity without getting too crazy. If you don't want to be an alcoholic in the future set some rules for yourself to follow. Christ drank wine. Alcohol is not the issue, the issue is the behavior it brings out, all alcohol does is remove your inhibitions (your filter) if without your inhibitions you are a horrible person then don't drink if you are like me and say prayers when your buzzed, and tell everyone how much you love them you're probably gonna be ok. That being said maybe wait for your prefrontal cortex to fully form (25) no one will judge you for doing it earlier that's just my crazy careful advice.

I left about a month ago and what has helped me the most is to learn about Christ's character and strive to do what he would do, even if my belief in him is incorrect it'll still make me a better person. That being said you're not gonna be perfect and mistakes will happen but God is not disappointed or angry with you for using your agency to the best of your ability and knowledge that you have in the moment. Mistakes are for learning purposes sometimes they need repeating for a lesson to sink in. Just try your best to correct yourself when you make a mistake and you are gonna be just fine. They're are many non-alcoholic non Mormons in the world atheist, Christian, agnostic, Buddhist, etc.

You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and have a hunger for truth. Never stop looking for truth but be careful when presenting truths you learn to others. Be kind with them as Jesus would be with you. I try to treat everyone as if they are very capable people who have all been abused at some point in their lives. Everyone has had an abusive relationship with someone, when you are deep into the LDS religion that abusive relationship is more often then not with yourself and it has a tendency to breed abusive relationships with others. Follow your gut, and research like crazy. Statistics support being spiritual, whatever path you decide to choose.

I love Christ and truly believe in him. Less than 2 percent of ex mormons remain Christian because it becomes so ingrained within you that you should live by the standards taught, that when you see those in charge of the church not following these standards and weaponizing other peoples faith against them and abusing the power they have you are disgusted with everything about the church and want nothing to do with it and often nothing to do with the God they teach.

The God taught in the LDS faith is not of the same character as the one taught in the Bible. That being said I do believe many LDS do have a relationship with God because they do use the Bible for me that's what saved me from this false religion.

Religion is manmade and men make mistakes. Religion to me is a lot like the game telephone God whispered and spoke truth to people in history and they whispered to others the message they heard, over time it became completely different than what God originally said. That's why the Bible is awesome because it's the direct words from those who were with him less room for false interpretation.

If you read the Bible, In the very first chapter of the new testament Mathew chapter one your gonna be like why all the begats?! Well turns out Mathew was Hebrew and he was a tax collector so numbers mattered to him and genealogy was significant to Hebrews because it was foretold that the Messiah would come through David's line. There are three groups of fourteen in the genealogy this is significant because there is a Hebrew thing called Gematria and each number correlates with a letter and each letter/number correlates with a definition. 14 means complete and 3 means divine perfection. It's written in a code of sorts which my nerdy Indiana Jones loving brain loves. Long story not so short Mathew is already from the get go testifying of Christ's validity. If you're not a fan of math that's a-ok because if God can communicate to Mathew (through freaking math?!) he's gonna communicate with you in a way you'll understand.

I apologize for the length of this I'm a bit of a Jesus nerd and I'm probably gonna get crap for this in the comments but eh that's ok I'm just posting in case you're like me and need to feel represented or understood. It's good to have options that's why God gave us agency ;)

For a 14 year old, I commend you on your thoughtfulness and analysis from multiple perspectives. As someone who grew up in the church, went on a mission but then did A TON of questioning and doubt as an adult in my 30s, here are my two bits of input:

1. “Ye shall know them by their fruits.” (Matt 7:16-20) No one can controvert the very things you’re observing about following what people refer to as the LDS lifestyle. A line from my patriarchal blessing that has always stuck with me: “You will find greater happiness in following the Lord’s way of life, than in following any other way of life.” I know from my own personal experience how true this counsel is. It sounds like you know this too.

“And moreover, I would desire that ye should consider on the blessed and happy state of those that keep the commandments of God. For behold, they are blessed in all things, both temporal and spiritual..” (Mosiah 2:41).

1. “The things of the Spirit of God.. are spiritually discerned.” (2 Cor 2:14) Here I’m talking about the right methodology or process to use. Spiritual things cannot be fully understood nor appreciated with purely analytical means. That’s difficult for analytical people like me, but I’ve come to realize how important this is. The scientific method is an amazing process for determining scientific truths about our world and universe. But its scope is limited to the physical world we inhabit. Other domains of poetry, art, politics, philosophy, music, love—these are simply not subject to the scientific method. While being a critical thinker is super important (esp in this day and age of misinformation everywhere!), spiritual things can only be spiritually discerned. So be careful in the approach you use. To quote the whole verse, “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

2. Other than God Himself, nothing is perfect. Not even “the church,” nor His prophets, nor “the Brethren,” nor church doctrine or policy or teaching, to say nothing of the rest of us. There are a lot of Biblical examples of prophets and apostles who got it wrong. We should never build a testimony on the foundation of the church. Only on Jesus Christ. Period.

“So be kind regarding human frailty—your own as well as that of those who serve with you in a Church led by volunteer, mortal men and women. Except in the case of His only perfect Begotten Son, imperfect people are all God has ever had to work with. That must be terribly frustrating to Him, but He deals with it. So should we. And when you see imperfection, remember that the limitation is not in the divinity of the work.” (Jeffrey R. Holland)

1. I’ve seen and considered the very worst of arguments and attacks lobbed at the church, its history, our books of scripture, our historical and current leaders—the whole gamut. To put it briefly, the further I went in, the less happy I was. At some point I became aware that there was a darkness settling into my soul. I was becoming less charitable, more critical, more short tempered, more selfish. Amid deep reflection and prayer, I came to realize the validity of points #2 and #3 above.

Along that journey, somewhere here on Reddit I saw a post from someone who had gone all the way out (of the church) and then came back, who said in the final analysis he came to realize that the gospel is like an instant cake mix, in that he didn’t have to understand every last ingredient and how the process of the mix works. You just have to follow the directions and you get a nice cake.

In short, “You will find greater happiness in following the Lord’s way of life, than in following any other way of life.”

I’ll say this - it’s not about “joining a church” but more importantly reconnecting and staying connected to God. Relationship > Religion. I think community is vital to your walk but it shouldn’t overshadow relationship. People are people - and we should expect them to “people”. But we can’t allow them to draw us away from Him.

You are 14. Go into the woods and start your own.

The best thing you can do for yourself and your spirituality is to develop clarity about your own principles and value system. Develop higher order thinking about your own spiritual and emotional autonomy and learn to trust your inner voice and personal intuitions. Joining an institutional religion will only condition you to repress your intuitions and emotional autonomy and force you to conform through shame and punishment

Welcome back. Be good to your parents in their decision and lean on the Savior in this transition. Bring good friends to your home and show them that the church is a good resource for the spirit in your home. I promise that you will be a happier person and your parents will see it.

To start things off. I am a multi time boomerang. I was a catholic and my parents and our whole family joined the church when I was 10. I went to church but not seminary. Eventually went to BYU, gained an awesome testimony came home and decided to go on a mission. However I came in touch of some anti Mormon literature that spoke very poorly of the church. It dragged me down to the point of quitting the church. All summer long I studied this literature and fed upon all the negative messages contained there in. I gave up and stopped going to church. I was done. It truly destroyed my testimony. But then I said to myself that I needed to cross reference and study all of the negative falsehoods and claims of this literature. Temple stuff, translation using the hat, other translation errors, pearl of great price story, weird Brigham young quotes, tons more. I worked my way through it all. Took a ton of time but I received a strong testimony that these things are all messages of deception and falsehood. This validated my beliefs and gave me the confirmation that I needed. I gained an intellectual testimony as well as a spiritual testimony. Went on a mission for the right reasons. Went back to BYU. Further strengthened my intellectual knowledge. I also studied other churches and their ideosynchonies, and crazy histories. The LDS church has nothing on the catholic religion. Far more deception and power mongering over the years than LDS church. I cannot believe the Protestant churches can represent anything factual apart from the reformation and the coming forth of truth as well as bringing to our attention that the world is filled with greedy men who seek to rule. I do not believe the LDS church is mis representing or deceitful any more than any other church. The catholic church is completely off base on religious beliefs and very wicked and yet is it the most populous Christian church in the world by far. All churches have a non-profit organization as well as a for-profit organization which represents their assets and growth. So you cannot blame the church for becoming rich because of obedient people making consecrated donations, or from asset growth or because there are times of people that donate land for tithing and large stocks are transferred. And the church leaders are not significantly benefiting from the church except for a cost of living which in my mind is completely ok. Bishops and local leaders are lay ministry and general authorities receive a stipend so they can serve. Not a problem! The weird one. I have no idea why god would make polygamy a standard in the church. He supported it in the Old Testament with the clarification as defined in the Book of Mormon which makes total sense. I do believe it was a commandment to a select few as long as it is done righteously in accordance with gods will not as a standard for all to follow. But I do believe that this will all be worked out in the end. The LDS church is wealthy, very wealthy. That does not make it bad. That does not mean they should change the commandments stop people from paying tithing or changing it to 5% or some silly other number. The church needs to be rich so it is. It dependent upon any other party. I fell away again a couple of times but easily come back. I served in leadership positions and so I know how they make the sausage so to speak. So I have worked through all of the issues with the CES letter and the suggestion of corruption in the church and Joseph’s early years. It is completely mis represented and overrated and in many cases factually wrong. No proof that it was contrived making the Book of Mormon. Just guesses and innuendo. So I believe it all and it is the only church that can be represented as an ensign to the world. It is the best church to commit your time against. The only church the correctly represents the priesthood and clearly describes its correct usage. The ONLY church the represent this correctly. The only church that actually claims to be the same church that Jesus created with apostles and prophets. It can be factually studied as well as spiritually appreciated.

I don’t usually comment on posts and I don’t have time to read the other comments so sorry if these things have already been said!

Please PLEASE PLEASE research the church properly!! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 I almost got baptised into the church as I believed in God and was seeking Him. My step dad was Mormon and introduced me to the church. As I was planning to get baptised I had a voice in my head (that I now believe was the Holy Spirit), telling me to “wait”. I had no idea what it was telling me to wait for… I thought maybe I wasn’t ready to get baptised or that there was something else I needed to know first. I listened to this voice and put off getting baptised. A little while later I met my husband and he taught me a lot about God and the bible. This is what the Holy Spirit was telling me to wait for!! As I started learning about the God of the bible, I realised that he is not the same God that the mormons believe in.

Firstly, the God of the bible is an eternal being with no beginning or end. This is the only logical answer as the creator of the universe!! However, the mormons believe God was a human like us and became God by following the Mormon church and making it into the celestial kingdom 🤦🏽‍♀️ they also believe WE can become Gods. So they believe there are an infinite amount of Gods and not just one?

If God was human before, then someone must have created him? And someone must have created the God that created that God? So who was the very first God that created the beginning of time? It cannot be the Mormon God since he was merely a human too! As you can see this makes NO sense. This is just the beginning. There are COUNTLESS issues with the Mormon church, but I won’t bother going into those right now. Instead I will tell you about the ONE true God, the creator of the universe 🙏🏼❤️

🟢The God of the bible, is outside of the universe and time does not apply to Him. He is an eternal being. In the beginning, God spoke and the universe was created. Scientists agree that the universe had a beginning, so this actually aligns with the bible! 🙏🏼

🟢 The bible says that when sin entered the world (Adam and Eve chose to sin), we became seperated from God. We are all born sinners, our flesh is sinful. Not one of us is good besides God! Because God loves us so much, he then sent His son Jesus Christ, to die for us on the cross and pay the price of our sins. Jesus took on our sins and died the worst possible death so that we could be washed clean of our sins through Him and receive the gift of eternal life. So that we can be in heaven with Him!! Jesus said multiple times, as long as we believe in Him we will be saved! Through our faith alone, because that’s how much God loves us all. He WANTS us to all be in heaven with Him. He made it so simple for us to get there, through Jesus Christ. Not by our own works.

🔴 As you can see the Mormon church contradicts the gospel of Jesus Christ. To be in heaven with God (celestial kingdom), there are so many works that need to be done, you need to wear the garments under your clothes, gain a membership card to enter the temple, baptise the dead, learn secret handshakes, etc. None of this is necessary for salvation!

🟢 the bible makes it very clear any other “jesus” or “gospel” preached other than the one we are given in the bible (as taught by the early Christian church and apostles), is false doctrine. The bible warns us to beware of false prophets. Yet the mormons are so quick to believe Joseph smith is a prophet. They should know that anything taught against the bible is a false gospel and anyone who teaches against the bible is a false teacher. God warned them through the bible, but they refuse to listen. They allow themselves to be deceived and remain blind. Don’t make the same mistake! You can know the one true God, He wants to know you and he doesn’t want to create so many obstacles between you and Him. Jesus is the direct line the God that anyone can access, not just mormons!! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼❤️❤️

I kind of feel like that’s how they get you. You never see the LDS folks that are struggling, you just see the successful ones. Trust me there’s just as many going through hardships as not. A lot of the reason I started moving away from the religion is because it became a ‘keeping up with the Joneses’ kind of society and not a religion. I left over 20 yrs ago. Am I rich, no. Pffttt. But I’m happy, healthy, have a great husband and family. All those things come from having a good work ethic and being a good person. You don’t need religion for that. If you feel it’s true that’s another story, but being LDS isn’t going to magically make you successful. Just keep your eyes open and don’t let them leave you holding the bag. 👀

Active here.

It's a great place to practice your faith in God & work with others towards something better in the future (later in life &/or hereafter).

It is not a good place to try to literally believe what is taught (like primary kids can believe). It's all symbolic; its all mythic. Keep that in mind (& avoid the bigotry), & you'll be fine.

You can find evidence to argue both sides of this on this board but it will mostly be against the faith. I would suggest that looking at your religion as a your faith tradition. Tradition includes much more than just the doctrine or beliefs of a faith. But rather it includes all the beautiful tradition of a faith. History, music, food, lifestyle, community, etc... It seems that you are already looking at it like that in some ways.

I personally go to church due to faith but more so due to community and opportunities to serve others and on and on. So keep in mind that a faith tradition serves many purposes. Not just to help a person with what comes after this life but how to navigate this life in a way that is helps you flourish.

You sound smart and thoughtful which is wonderful. Keep it up and follow your gut. Good luck in your faith journey.

I left the church when I was close to your age and then returned years later. I left because of what I learned at church, and years later I found out I misunderstood what I was taught.

I've been involved in the church for many, many decades. I have found out that it is what it claims to be. The LDS Church is true. That doesn't mean that there are no problems in church history, etc. LDS church leaders teach that they are subject to human error even though the church is led by prophets. They are not infallible.

However, the success of the church and the good it does in the lives of many church members speaks loudly about its authenticity.

I hope you will give the church a chance.

The majority of those who post and comment at r/mormon are very negative about the church, so take that into account. You will need to make your own decision about being active in the church. I am very happy I decided to return to the church. It has blessed my life!

The example of family and friends who were truly happy. They knew who they are and they love the Lord and all the blessings they have been given for their faith! So many signs of Jesus Christ being head of the gospel and God sending Christ so we can have repentance and forgiveness so eternal life being real!!!

People always leave for old wives tales reasons

I have found SIX main things about the Book of Mormon that don’t get addressed much… (FIRST PUBLISHED in 1830, pay strict attention to THAT PUBLISHING date) 1) Between 1832 – 1868, over 4,000 ANCIENT excavation sites (copper mining operations) were discovered (and cataloged) in Michigan. It’s estimated that over 500,000 tons of copper ore was removed from these ANCIENT excavation sites. Radio Carbon-dating of the tailings, puts most of the excavation sites being excavated around the time of the JAREDITES and some around the time of the NEPHITES. (Yes tailings CAN be radio carbon-dated, because they contain disturbed/rearranged Earth, interlaced with organic material and the organic material in the tailings CAN be radio carbon-dated) 2) ANCIENT copper artifacts such as tools, weapons, breastplates, Shields, & sheets of copper have been found from Nova Scotia to Venezuela… 3) The Hopewell archaeological dig, (1846-1848) in which a great deal of copper was found, happened two years AFTER Joseph Smith’s assassination, 16 - 18 years AFTER the publication of the Book of Mormon. 4) Between 1995-2009 George Potter using the Book of Mormon as an archaeological guide map, discovered running water passing between two granite cliffs emptying out into the Red Sea and running 24/7/365 https://evidencecentral(dot)org/recency/evidence/valley-of-lemuel It was only after POTTER began to publish his findings, that the Saudi Arabian government caught on to what he was doing and they have since refused to let him back into the country… (The valley of Lemuel / River of Laman in case you forgotten or didn't know the reference) 5) The use of the word steel in the Book of Mormon is NOT an error. Steel WAS known and more importantly produced, in antiquity, first being produced around 1800 BC. 6) Mitochondrial DNA. (This one does get bandied around, but not correctly.) Mitochondrial DNA passes from female to female ONLY. It has been proven beyond ANY shadow of a doubt that the American Indians do NOT have a mitochondrial DNA link to modern-day Jews… What’s not discussed, is that it’s a very GOOD thing… Modern day Jews are a descendant of JUDAH, whose mother was LEAH… Lehi was a descendant of JOSEPH whose mother was RACHEL… There is NO archaeological or biblical evidence that Leah and Rachel had the SAME mother. In fact because of the culture and traditions of the time… It’s extremely unlikely that Leah and Rachel had the same mother, let alone the same maternal bloodline relations at all. Biblical and cultural evidence suggests that Leah and Rachel were stepsisters… same father of course... The American Indians better NOT have mitochondrial DNA linking them to the modern-day Jews or there was a little bit of hanky panky going on???... just sayin’ But people don’t pay attention to the SCIENCE, to the evidence, they get caught up in the emotions of their own disdain for the LDS Church. There was even a famous Australian Bishop, Simon Southerton, that worked as a scientist, that got caught up in the mitochondrial DNA discussion and was upset that the Indians weren’t related to the Jews and he didn’t even take the time to think it through and he quit the church and has attacked the church for years, and his published works are so full of Errors, they are mocked. https://www.fairlatterdaysaints(dot)org/blog/2008/07/17/a-note-from-a-clown Later on, he realized his mistake, but it’s bigger than him now, so he can’t go back on his silly statements… he refuses to correct errors and misrepresentations that have been pointed out in his published works. There’s a little side note about this: a recent article within the last decade, 2021, came out totally destroying the claim that American Indians were Asian, it was a study about teeth, proving the two weren’t related, contrary to the GUESSTIMATIONS of former scientists, the guesstimations that this former Bishop used… to denounce the LDS Church… Their assumptions have been proven FALSE, through genetic testing of these teeth… He now cannot be reached for comment… Not too many former LDS people like to discuss those SIX points. It’s always a reply with “but Joe Smith this” and “Joe Smith that”… Brigham Young this, Brigham Young that… Most folks don't answer the points I make, they just simply point to the other things that they say are important but are really immaterial gossip and urban legend.

Use your intellect to discern truth from deception. If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is genuine, then the Spirit of Truth guides you. Your inclination to return to the Church indicates this guidance. Acknowledge the prevalence of deception—Jesus warned about widespread deceit in the latter days. Presently, over 1 billion people worship pre-flood deities (Hindus), while 4 billion adhere to monotheistic faiths like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The Book of Mormon offers insights into the latter days, highlighting challenges and spiritual opportunities.

Scripture References from the Book of Mormon:

The Book of Mormon provides insights into the characteristics of those embodying the spirit of the Antichrist, opposing Christ, His teachings, and His followers:

1. **Denial of Christ:** Those with the spirit of Antichrist prioritize personal gain over truth (2 Nephi 25:18).

2. **Deception and False Teachings:** The Antichrist spreads falsehoods, leading people astray (Alma 30:60).

3. **Persecution of the Righteous:** Rejecters of Christ face severe consequences (3 Nephi 29:3).

4. **Pride and Worldliness:** Some harden their hearts against Christ's signs due to pride (Helaman 16:15).

5. **Suppression of Revelation:** The Antichrist seeks to suppress divine truth and revelation (Mormon 8:28).

These scriptures reveal traits of the Antichrist spirit: denial of Christ, deception, persecution, pride, and suppression of truth. Members are encouraged to remain faithful, grounded in scripture and prophetic teachings, and vigilant against deception.

How is it that the sacred names of God, Jesus Christ, and Holy are often used as profanity rather than revered with respect?