I’m with Clark Gregg on this.
DiscussionI consider it all part of the MCU. Certainly up through season 4 at least. Season 5 AoS became more of its own thing, but it still starred Agent Coulson.
I consider Agent Carter canon too, which is also reflected in the films when Jarvis gets a cameo in Endgame.
Pretty sure Feige considers AC more canon as he was definitely more involved in that show.
Jarvis was literally in Endgame.
I'm almost certain that was an olive branch to AC/AoS from Fiege/Marcus & McFeely
Did they ever give any explanation for Dominic Cooper/John Slatterty both being Howard? With the same Jarvis? Or we just calling that age-up and stepping away.
It's just an age-up/down.
Pretty much anything before 1970 is Cooper, and then 1970 onwards is Slattery.
CA:TFA was before they had the de-aging tech they do now, besides it's not uncommon for characters to have two different actors for present and past.
Casting two different actors is still usually a better idea than deaging, which still doesn't actually work as well as they seem to think it does
If you really need to make it obvious to the audience that it's the same person because you're showing scenes from the different time periods right next to each other in the same movie fine, otherwise there's no reason for it
Same reason Han Solo is Alden Ehrenreich in Solo, but Indiana Jones is Harrison Ford in Dial of Destiny even in flashback scenes
Tangential thought…. They should do Alden in a Young Solo series that is basically Han doing Indiana Jones-type adventures before ANH.
It's clearly obvious that's supposed to be an aging up and even if it wasn't there's no explanation for any other characters who they didn't age up but re-cast.
Bonus related fact though, there's a photo somewhere in the original Iron Man that's suppose to be Howard Stark that's not Cooper or Slatterty either, in addition to Rhodey you could say they re-cast Howard between Iron Man 1 and 2 in more than one way.
Same character, just two actors playing him across the ages
Using the same actor for Jarvis and just putting in him makeup is feasible for a quick cameo scene
But the two Stark actors were even blended in still frame in Age of Ultron
The explanation is “it’s a movie”
For example, did you know that in Matilda, when you stop seeing the little toddler girl and start seeing Mara Wilson, that’s actually still supposed to be the same variant of Matilda you’re following? They’re just played by different actresses because they’re different ages. There is no multiverse, shared codename, plastic surgery or other “explanation” for this (because back then people understood that recasting usually doesn’t have some convoluted in-universe reason) in the movie Matilda. Crazy right
The sarcasm is absolutely brutal but I'm here for it
In universe I believe there's a quick image of Stark that actually blends the two actors faces. It's when Ultron hooks into Jarvis and begins to learn everything.
More so AC than AoS
AC and AoS are pretty tightly knit. You wouldn't be able to make one canon without the other.
Same. But even if it’s not canon to MCU, it’s still Marvel doing television. What is Iger talking about lol
The context is Marvel Studios providing content for D+. Marvel Studios haven't made TV shows. Marvel Television were the ones that did it, with Marvel Animation also doing it under Marvel Television. In 2019, Iger made the decision to fold Marvel TV into Marvel Studios. Feige was the one that then fired anyone from Marvel TV not attached to an already active project.
But he re-hired some of them. There's Daredevil writers on Echo, for example.
In loki ep1, they say coulsons death was a needed event, and after shields shut down and all there info dumped onto the internet theres no reason the avengers or tony wouldnt immediately find out coulson was alive.
To many things to point to it not being canon imo, good show for sure but at best its a seperate universe
Tahiti is one of the things that exist only in Fury's data cube tho, so it is more than likely it was not part of the info dump. Just like the fact Fury had an entire helicarrier off the books that was later used in Sokovia
It’s a magical place.
It sucked
Coulson fairly openly went out in public and was around when a bunch of notable things involving super powered people happened. There is no way not a single earth based hero never knew he was alive lol
Bro how many people do you think are on Earth. Iron Man don't got time to look every single person in the face every day, ofc Coulson could go unnoticed by the 6 Avengers he met.
Maria Hill went to work for him.
Maria knew Coulson was alive and agreed not to tell Stark though. That was directly addressed lol.
It's hilarious how many of these "plot holes" boil down to people missing or not paying attention to things.
Who's to say The Avengers never found out off screen?
Exactly. It would be cool for him to show up and have worked with some Avengers during the Blip.
AoS S6l7 ended in 2020, two years into the Blip.
That would give us three years of potential meet ups between LMD Coulson and the Avengers.
This. This is why I think what we are watching in AOS, if it is to be canon, can only be canon as a different universe/timeline. Otherwise it isn't canon.
Then it isn't canon. Literally every Marvel project is part of the Marvel Multiverse. There is no such thing as "canon to a different universe". It is either canon to the MCU which is the universe that we've been following for years, then there is a countless number of universes.
There is no such thing as "canon to a different universe".
That's where things get tricky. Canon means it's acknowledged as happened. Whether it's the same universe doesn't matter. For instance, prior to No Way Home, the events of Tobey and Andrew's Spider-Man movies were not canon to the MCU multiverse. But after the movie, they are. The part that's up for debate is whether these other universes are included in the MCU multiverse.
The concept of the multiverse itself acknowledges every universe by default. Simply because the multiverse exists, we know there are alternate versions of people, places, and objects, with varying levels of similarities and differences in each universe. Tobey and Andrew didn't need a movie for them to be acknowledges as a part of the multiverse, because the concept of the multiverse itself already acknowledges them.
The concept of the multiverse itself acknowledges every universe by default.
Only if you take "infinite" literally. By that logic, there's a universe within the MCU multiverse where I am Spider-Man.
This! And if they ever bring any of those characters into the Movie-verse or even other series, they're going to know Coulson is alive-ish. That's bound to come up in some conversation with anyone who was OG; though, that list in getting slim Hawkeye, Banner, Fury, Rhodes, Thor, Pott.
Once they're all dead, bring back LMD Coulson as the new Fury.
Coulson actually made that helicarrier for fury in AoS
It was a running plot point throughout that season. It directly tied AoS to AoU.
Coulson had Helicarrier 64 repaired then it was loaned to Fury for the Sokovia rescue mission. This was also mentioned in The Wakanda Files book released by Marvel Studios.
Yup. They’re also responsible for helping the Avengers find Loki’s staff in Age of Ultron when an inhuman had a vision about the staff and Ultron.
And Thanos coming was the primary motivation for the Season 5 antagonist.
Because Coulson literally did die? Loki had actually killed him, and Fury had him brought back using Kree blood?
Coulson’s death needing to happen does not mean that he can’t be revived after, just that he needed to die to kickstart the Avengers. The two events are not mutually exclusive.
Who says they don’t know? I mean Coulson is a spy doing spy shit in underground bunkers, lighthouses, different galaxies, different points in time. Like just because he never shows up again in an Avengers movie doesn’t mean anything because we know exactly what he’s doing at that time.
Exactly, the only intellectually honest position to hold is that whoever did find out likely found out off screen because discovering Coulson is alive doesn’t serve the plot of any of the films/series we saw.
It would be a moment that doesn’t leas to anything else unless they want to tell a Coulson story again in the films, and why would they when they have so many characters to juggle now?
Let it go y’all. Its canon, it happened, it won’t be acknowledged. Let it go.
At a certain point it's just people getting into seemingly heated debates over which set of fictional events "really happened" and which set of fictional events are... just fiction.
Then one step further, there's literally no difference between saying something is not canon and saying it is canon but will never be mentioned or affect things in the future. They're functionally the same thing, so who cares if somebody says it's canon or not?
These same people would go on to complain about the MCU not mentioning Tiamut...
I hate all of those people and She Hulk threw them a bone
Hell if people want it to be canon so badly just call it a branched timeline. We already had the TVA say they only cull timelines if they lead to Kang.
Agents of Shield actually did have him die
Netflix Marvel, to me, might still be my favorite marvel to consume in general. Jessica Jones and Daredevil specifically, but i really truly loved all of them.
Honestly for me I feel it branches to a parallel timeline once a large amount of the population become inhumans. It's just very difficult to believe that so many people would gain super powers and it not be mentioned once by anyone. The show tries to tie it into the sokovia accords but I don't really buy it in the main MCU.
The show itself is great and I love it, it’s definitely just everything after the inhuman crisis stuff becomes unbelievable for the MCU very quickly.
I definitely agree with you on Agent Carter, however, an actor resprising their role isn't really evidence, in mlst cases this would just be a nod to it. But in this case I think it does help the argument.
Thanks to the multiverse everything can be considered canon now.
🤦🏻♂️ if you consider something canon up until a certain point, you don’t consider it canon. You just want to exist what you liked.
It’s not like I can say Thor 4 was canon until the silly jokes. I can’t just say something isn’t canon when I don’t like it.
Not that it matters, but if AoS is canon, that creates more questions than answers in the actual MCU.
How can it not be canon? You can change events retrospectively to make it male sense but it needs to be canon, technically all the old spiderman films are canon too so why not this?
Cannon fodder in the canon wars?
Sorry, couldn’t help myself.
Sometimes I love but sometimes I also get so tired of discussions (in any fandom) of canon vs non canon or just discussions about factually what happened. I can’t always seem to decide lol.
I just enjoy the theory crafting, so having a solid canon helps with that. I dont really care what is or isnt canon lol its all fun, hell i think im one of the few that didnt totally hate iron fist
The MCU is canon to AoS but not the other way around.
I feel like this logic applies to it’s connection to the comics multiverse and the multiverse seen in the Spider-Verse films too.
The MCU is canon to both, but… 🤷♀️
I’ve watched AoS through 4 times. I love that show(except for the last 4 or so episodes).
I have never and will never understand the canon vs non canon debate. I mean sure, discuss it as a fun exercise, sure. But people take it so personally and get so worked up about it when it shouldn’t hold any bearing on how much you can enjoy the show.
The show was amazing weather it’s canon or not
It will be brought, but it shouldn't. This quote is completely unrelated to whether AoS is cannon. Regardless of whether AoS is cannon, it's a tv show made by Marvel. It wasn't made by Marvel Studios, but that's besides the point. Bob Iger was talking about Marvel and AoS, Agent Carter, plus the Netflix shows were all made by Marvel.
This comment from Bob iger is so out of touch... Specifically, because it was him who wanted marvel to start making shows to bolster Disney Plus's initial slate to begin with.
He is responsible for a lot of things Chapek is blamed for
Very convenient, that.
Chapek just blew the lid off of an already abysmol situation by being inept at creating a pro-creative, collaborative mask when dealing with forward facing business and ties. Unlike Iger,
It really seems like Chapek had a massive fragile ego, because while he absolutely inherited some big issues, he also managed to make so many personal screw ups that IMO they actually eclipsed anything he inherited. With Chapek it almost always seemed like he was desperate to demand respect and control, but in the process he alienated creatives at all levels, producers, directors, and actors, and then eventually that even spilled over to alienating fans. And none of that was necessary or even effective in running a business first Disney, it was solely about having HIS PEOPLE in charge so that every decision was made HIS WAY, ignoring the fact that they already had people doing making those decisions that were some of the best in the industry.
Well when you're the fall guy for the guy before you and he proceeds to undermine you on the board even for decisions made by him I would imagine that creates a situation where you are desperate looking for respect and control.
I blame Chapek because he forced them to release too much too quickly. Like I heard recently that apparently the script for Love and Thunder wasn’t completed before filming started.
Which MCU film has an actual completed script before filming? MAYBE the GOTG trilogy due to James Gunn but I doubt any other film has. Multiverse of Madness issues are well documented, Tom Holland is on the record saying they tried filming the 3rd act of NWH and didn’t know what the fuck they were doing before they stopped and actually hashed it out and then went back to filming.
I think that's why Gotg 3 stands above all recent mcu films including those two, James Gunn had 7 years to figure it out and it shows, combined with the fact that the studio mostly let him do his thing.
That's not entirely a knock though considering Iron Man 1's script wasn't completed before filming started either.
Are the two really comparable though, when one movie released deep into an ongoing popular franchise, and the other one helmed it with a once washed up actor that Favreau took a chance on?
What I was trying to get is that the LaT producers probably looked at IM1 as proof that "who needs a completed script lol" or something like that instead of seeing IM1 as lightning in a bottle that succeeded despite not even being finished, and almost didn't. Honestly we're pretty lucky that IM1 turned out to be as good as it was.
I'd say they're not comparable in the way that the intention was for Thor to include a very large amount of improv so they didn't care if it had a completed script, all it needed was more of an outline.
It’s Taika lol. He just made it up as they went along. Also they apparently wasted a lot of money filming scenes with different locations and actors in the “jumping around to areas” part of the movie, but cut most of them.
There's literally a fully-filmed deleted scene where Zeus feels bad for Jane dying and just gives Thor his lightning bolt.
The problem is Taika pretended he improv'd Ragnarok when it's really easy to see it had a fully-written script. Then he used that as leverage to actually wing it with Love and Thunder and it fell apart.
Feels like Igor paid Chapek a lot of money to be his meat shield.
He specifically says that. He isn’t putting the blame on someone else (in this article, at least). Click the link and check the full quote. He admits that he (and other executives pushing for streaming growth) had overworked Disney employees by having them increase production of movies and TV in such a drastic manner, and diluted the employees’ time and focus across too many projects.
I think in our zeal to basically grow our content significantly to serve mostly our streaming offerings, we ended up taxing our people way beyond — in terms of their time and their focus — way beyond where they had been. Marvel’s a great example of that. They had not been in the TV business at any significant level. Not only did they increase their movie output, but they ended up making a number of television series, and frankly, it diluted focus and attention. That is, I think, more of the cause than anything.
But both can be true. Iger told them to make lots of TV for Disney+. Now they've done it he can say it's oversaturated. Doesn't matter who told them to oversaturate it
True. And that's part of why it's so out of touch. No accountability on his part, especially considering another factor, he picked Bob C. I shudder to think he brought Disney back from the brink, just to pick Bob c as a Patsy for his intentional scuddling of it years later
Worked out well for him, bring things to the breaking point, jump ship so people remember you fondly while you pick a weak followup, jump in and save the day after you see what ended up flopping and what people remember fondly.
It's funny how Iger's saying how hard it is to keep up with three Disney+ shows of 6 episodes per year when Marvel Television was putting out three MCU adjacent shows of 10 to 22 episode long seasons AT THE SAME TIME during some years in the 2010s and fans would still watch them all scouring for easter eggs.
If there's a problem with the D+ shows it's the writers getting crunched so much they have to strike and the VFX teams getting crunched so much they wish they could.
I'd say it's not a totally fair comparison because the Marvel Television shows were not really expected viewing to the same degree that the Disney+ series are.
If you never watched an episode of anything from ABC or Netflix or wherever Cloak and Dagger or Runaways aired it didn't affect any movie at all. But if you skip some of the Disney+ series then when watching the movies you will miss something. Sure, if you haven't watched the Guardians Holiday special you should still be able to handle Guardians 3 talking about the sibling reveal, and I'll even say Multiverse of Madness does a sufficient job at explaining what happened anybody should be able to follow along with that movie even without watching Wandavision first, but even if you can follow them it doesn't change the fact that you'll feel like you're missing something in a way that never happened before Disney+.
Yeah. He's forgetting he let Ike Perlmutter run wild with the edict that all marvel TV produced shows had to PRETEND like they were as interconnected with the MCU as the Disney plus shows ACTUALLY are, for a bit too long. Long enough that Kevin was this close to noping out, and working to help DC establish their universe. PS. The power he gave Ike also consisted of barring the movies from using certain characters due to TV plans and more.
Not to take blame off of Chapek, but Bob Iger is only CEO because he makes the shareholders money by cutting employees and projects. He doesn’t care about the fans or the viewers. The shareholders/board were unhappy with the money they were making under Chapek, so now this guy is back. The only projects that’ll get greenlit under him will be the ones he sees as guaranteed dollars no matter the quality.
You are conveniently leaving out a point. Those dollars come from us the fans, and it relies on us enjoying the content. They might only care about the money, but that doesn't mean they don't put effort into the content they produce.
Exactly, everybody is trying to crap on Iger as if he is just as bad, but the fact is that under his reign the MCU was actually trying, it certainly wasn't perfect, but they were making movies because they had hired creatives with stories to tell. Under Chapek they were just slapping together a bunch of action scenes and fan service with no real stories to be seen. Now who knows maybe the MCU would have gone in the same direction even if Iger hadn't retired, it doesn't really matter though because regardless of who was in charge it was their job to course correct and we can very plainly see that Chapek didn't do that, we didn't see the hack creative teams get replaced until Iger was back.
???? He literally headed the acquisition of fox and star wars.
Stock price is lower than when Chapek was fired. He hasn’t made anyone any money. What Iger was good at was called inorganic growth, or “buying revenue”. He just used free debt to shop until he dropped.
I actually don’t think Iger’s take is that bad…but his statement regarding the WGA? Ooooohhh boy, that was tone def and out of touch as fuck. The strike is disruptive to the industry? THATS THE POINT.
Funny enough a sticking point in the WGA and SAG-AFTRA strikes is the use of AI. The lead negotiator for SAG-AFTRA pointed out that one of the demands from the studios is that they are able to make a scan of each background actor for one day's pay, and then the studio owns the likeness, scan, etc and can use it in any production without consent or compensation.
We all know Coulson would have been angry about that, based on his reaction to being turned into an LMD/Chronicom.
one of the demands from the studios is that they are able to make a scan of each background actor for one day's pay, and then the studio owns the likeness, scan, etc and can use it in any production without consent or compensation.
one day's pay. I can't get my head around the ridiculousness of that. one. day's. pay.
And infinite license for countless films for essentially pocket change at a studio. It's absurd
then they'll complain "nobody wants to work anymore" YOU DON'T WANT TO LET PEOPLE WORK
Oh they want to let people work. They just don't want to pay for it. They want the Star Trek Utopia where people do things for the sake of doing them, but don't want to give up their dragon hoards and life of excess
I the Star Trek utopia, businesses don't have money, either.
Exactly. I’m perfectly willing to let you scan my face/body and record my voice and use it in perpetuity. But my contract is going to say I get paid every single time, and if you use my voice or image after I die in any new project? My inheritors get paid.
But my contract is going to say I get paid every single time, and if you use my voice or image after I die in any new project? My inheritors get paid.
That's how it should be. I mean... I'm a professor and technically the materials I make for a class are university property, they can use them forever, okay whatever. that's not my FACE and VOICE. It's not ME. The idea of them just copy/pasting actors in roles forever is creepy as hell.
1000% agree that you should get paid every single time your likeness is used, but the payment after your dead thing opens up a whole new bag of worms. What happens for the people who don't have any inheritors? What about when those inheritors also die? Lots of issues to work out, but the basic point still stands: using someone's likeness without compensation should be illegal.
Valid, but if you’re going to continue to use me in creating new projects even when I’m dead, somebody is getting paid for it. If I don’t have inheritors, it goes to a charity or public library or something.
Said as if I’ll ever be in movies. Lol
Simple solution: when you die, so does your digital likeness.
I hope we can all agree on how freaking ghoulish that is, regardless of disagreements on other issues.
Yeah, that made him both out of touch and stupid
You know what, to some degree, the old model of the shows having to react to what happened in the movies versus driving the narrative was better. What didn’t work was the Never making the TV side feel like it was in the same universe. Which would’ve been just as simple as referencing Stark technology occasionally. Don’t do this weird thing where you never mention the superheroes by name for some bizarre reason.
Honestly AoS didn't need to drive the story, but it would have been nice if they could have had the occasional appearance from RDJ or Chris Evans, etc. That would have done a lot in terms of "legitimizing" the series among MCU fans. Even Fury, the OG(for the MCU) director of SHIELD, only showed up once or twice.
Hell, even if the biggest stars could only come out occasionally, there's no reason they couldn't have had semi-frequent appearances from Don Cheadle, Stellan Skaarsgard, Emily VanCamp, etc.
There is reason: money. The MCU was one team up movie deep at the time. They're not just gonna throw thousands of millions of dollars at huge name actors back then. There simply was no promise of return on profit then
I still keep hoping for a cavalry or Fitzsimmons appearance in another marvel property.
If I remember correctly, RDJ said in an ama that he would love to appear on AoS back during season 2, just that there would be a lot of red tape.
Mariah Hill appeared was well.
Don’t do this weird thing where you never mention the superheroes by name for some bizarre reason.
They mentioned the superheroes by name a lot.
I AoS sure, not so much in Netflix though
Agent Coulson is always so based... even in real life...
Truly.
Doesn’t pay for a checkmark like a mensch.
Someone please explain to me whats going on. I am trying to read the article from Variety and getting zoned out.
I'm paraphrasing and summarizing. Iger was at a conference today talking to various reporters/panel. On one he said MCU was pushed too much to provide too much content, the studio was spread too thin and it was a mistake because its led to quality dipping, hurting the main brand/s Marvel (and Star Wars). (Former CEO Chapek pushed for alot content but Iger seems to have skipped the fact he started Disney+)
So nothing that we didn't know already but the big boss has admitted the "mistake". He is looking to cut further and possibly licence stuff out. Marvel OTT production costs were highlighted.
He also basically said while (poor 😭) studios are struggling, writers and actors are making a mistake striking and demanding what they are.
Its all positive jargon for wall street because he pretty much said this months ago. Disney shares are now slightly up on the day.
It was obvious too he was talking about Feige's team, not past series like AOS/Defenders
This is also to deflect from the writers (and now SAG) strike.
So... Basically He's just saying what we have all been saying for 2 years? except he's making money off of it? And has he done anything to change the situation?
He already caused feige to re-shuffle and reschedule at the beginning of this year. Maybe more to come and alot budget discussions behind closed doors I bet.
I mean yes, he's working on it. but you can't just cancel shows that have been in production for years.
A studio making studio products is bad business, gotta throttle supply to increase demand to inflate profits. Sheesh amateurs.
It’s like they’re trying to bring back the Disney Vault.
It was basically a way for them to throttle older classics before dvds and streaming (because vhs quality deteriorates over time and after lots of use).
I do agree to some degree that too much can be a bad thing but the amount Marvel currently has planned for Phase 5 is the same as Phase 4 just spread out over an extra year and it’s fine. The issue was covid delaying so many releases in Phase 4 because then they got released in rapid fire succession and it was slightly overwhelming in the moment.
This is the big issue being ignored. If there wasn't almost 2 years of COVID delays everything would have come out on a more natural pace following Endgame.
It's odd that people think Disney is cutting back on MCU content to placate some moronic Internet loudmouths. Giant corporations don't make decisions like that.
Of course, what he really means is that Feige "had not been in the TV business at any significant level."
Imagine if Marvel Television had access to the resources for its shows that Marvel Studios has: money, effects artists, reshoots, and so on, but especially time.
Feige had an entire staff of people with knowledge of how to get things done on TV when Iger had Marvel TV folded into Marvel Studios. Feige fired them all.
Seriously, Marvel Television produced over 450 episodes of TV. Okay, so Feige didn't want to work with Jeph Loeb. That's fine. But there was so much talent to draw from in that pool.
Its absolutely tragic and arrogant. He brought back charlie cox and Vincent d'onofrio because he knows people liked that content. But he isn't interested in bringing the old creatives back because he wants the credit himself. It's like a Hollywood pride thing. Just sad really fiege stringing along all the fans of marvel netflix and agents of shield as if he is capable of producing anything as good with the type of story telling marvel studios IS good at. He stopped ms marvel from having fun editing because he actually thinks it's bad to make things too different in the mcu. Which is why people are correct to worry about Daredevil Born Again.
Unfortunate too because the writers of Daredevil deserve another chance to work on that show.
Well I mean they had a completed outline for season 4. I would hope some of that stuff is being considered.
Why the fuck didn't marvel studios reward the writers of agents of shield or daredevil
Because they were arrogant and thought movie division stretching 2 hour plots to 6 episodes was good enough.
.....does HE know why he promoted Feige to a higher position?
Dude....
I mean he is technically not wrong, since Marvel STUDIOS had never been involved in tv shows, but Marvel television, which was ran by jeph Loeb, not Feige.
And it again comes back to Iger making the decision to fold Marvel TV into Marvel Studios compounded with Feige firing anyone not attached to an active project right after.
His comment was not about Marvel Studios. He’s just talking about Disney employees working on marvel content, and how he believes quality decreased as they became overworked when changing to producing tons of shows as well as increased movie output. The workers at ABC Studios and Marvel Television (who made AoS and the Defenders shows) are Disney employees.
Here’s his comment:
There have been some disappointments. We would have liked some of our more recent releases to perform better. It’s reflective not as a problem from a personnel perspective, but I think in our zeal to basically grow our content significantly to serve mostly our streaming offerings, we ended up taxing our people way beyond — in terms of their time and their focus — way beyond where they had been. Marvel’s a great example of that. They had not been in the TV business at any significant level. Not only did they increase their movie output, but they ended up making a number of television series, and frankly, it diluted focus and attention. That is, I think, more of the cause than anything.
Disagreed. He's talking about the people being taxed in terms of their time and focus. Marvel Television was run by different people, so it didn't tax Kevin Feige & co's time.
I remember my frustration with marvel disney plus shows was hearing about all the cut content. Like you own the streaming service. YOU OWN IT. Why cut anything for time. Why censor anything if there are no adds. Why give fans 35 minute episodes. The whole thing is obviously unsustainable and each disney plus show would have more money if you make one less disney plus show per year. SPREAD WAY TO THIN. Like all the hawkeye cut scenes when clint was a kid? Why cut anything? Meanwhile ABC and netflix gave us full proper seasons. Secret invasion is already at episode 4 and it feels like a 2 hour plot stretched.
Even if Bob meant MCU shows specifically, WandaVision is still the most talked about and beloved MCU show and made Wanda even more popular.
And why’s he acting like Loki doesn’t have importance to the Multiverse Saga…?
He’s not saying that at all. He’s saying that Disney asked too much of Marvel Studios when launching Disney+, and there has been more content than they have been able manage at their previous standards. I sincerely doubt that’s Iger’s judgement, but rather a thoughtful conclusion after talking with leadership at Marvel Studios upon his return to the company.
I doubt he’s even watched any of this he’s just a numbers and figures guy like anyone in that position. No-one that rich is genuinely sitting through MCU content enthralled with it.
I loved WandaVision but it was about 10% behind Loki in viewership (the same delta between WV and What If…? and between What If…? and FatWS). It’s also lagging behind Loki in audience scores and the only time it’s scored higher than Loki in google trends since they’ve aired was the week Multiverse of Madness came out. I wish that weren’t the case too, but seems to be.
Bob Iger has been talking out of his ass the past couple of days. Even Ansel Mount angrily quote tweeted the article where he says the writers and actors are being unreasonable.
The issue isnt the amount of content, its the quality of the content!
Well no. The issue does seem to be the amount because when Marvel was producing less content, the quality was higher.
My friend, Daredevil, Punisher, Jessica Jones, Agents of Shield.
I hate the disrespect AoS gets, its such a great show with great consistent writing. Like ALL of the seasons were good
lmao
Damnit! How many times can Disney spit in the face of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D?!? SMDFH 🤬
This has the same energy as Kennedy saying that the Star Wars sequel trilogy had no source material to work from.
Yeah, what happens with these studios and franchises is that they hire people who are not part of the main demographic. Why cater to fans when you can attract new fans. Except this is almost always a risk. Snyder verse created new dc fans. Sequel trilogy created new fans. The problem with both of those is the DC and Star Wars fanbase is basically at war with itself. It's almost like the people hired to write these things are bitter about having to in the first place. Like why not hire someone that cares. All the marvel tv show runners aside from Scott buck was usually a comic fan or actually gave a shit.
Marvel built an empire with r rated shows and pg13 connected movie verse that had things for adults and families. People underestimate how much marvel netflix and runaways and agents of shield filled out the tone of the universe and what it was capable of. If you thought thor ragnarok was too goofy or punisher was too dark and serious. Well it's fine they came out the same month. In 2017 if someone said marvel is just for kids you could point to punisher and vice versa if someone said marvel was too dark.
THAT VARIETY IS GONE NOW
Marvel tv had mature story telling and it seems like disney is okay getting marvel to make an r rated show for netflix. But for some reason if it's on disney they are all worried about it. It really just makes no sense at all now that all of marvel netflix and deadpool are on disney plus.
Lol no it doesn't. EU was never source material, it was cheap cash-in ancillary junk.
I've gotta say, this is why it was nice to have a separate department for Marvel Television instead of running it all through Marvel Studios. Sure, there weren't as many connections, but there were different creative heads focusing on the shows and movies, making the shows feel more unique and the movies to feel more focused.
Yeah it was dope waiting six months you get a pg13 marvel film and also get an r rated show. And the whole year gets filled out my agents of shield. Like we were totally fucking spoiled lol
When Marvel Studios swallowed up Marvel Television, thousands of people were left jobless without their holiday bonuses right before Christmas. This was likely done on purpose as numerous projects, infamously Deadpool FX and Ghost Rider, were rushed into cancellation.
So Bog Iger really coming out here and saying this is pure unbridled scumbaggery.
That's gotta sting for the guy...
Bob Iger really out here trying to make himself look smart but ending up saying the stupidest of things.
Such a Coulson thing to say
I feel like the [Marvel] shortening the quote is important here, as it sounds like what he's saying is "Marvel Studios" not "Marvel". AoS wasn't diverting the focus of the Marvel Studios staff.
How do you say this after bringing back Daredevil to tremendous fanfare and celebration? Or having AoS run for 7 years and as far as network shows go being consistently successful.
Not to mention cartoons, etc.
You could say Marvel Studios specifically hasn’t nailed TV yet. Which I’d say is a fair assessment since the D+ series have been inconsistent and seemingly less relevant to general audiences (as have the movies, I wonder why)
Bob Iger is probably regretting he came back to tarnish his public image and legacy to some extent.
Some of the best TV stuff was pre-Disney+. Daredevil still blows everything else out of the water.
Call it cope but this might just be bad article writing Marvel being in square brackets means it wasn't actually said by the person quoted but instead is context given by the journalist. I suspect what was actually meant was "Marvel Studios" rather than "Marvel".
Marvel has absolutely had TV projects before, not just Marvel Television (AoS, AC, Netflix shows) but also animated series and the X-men shows. Even if none of those were MCU (that is a separate debate) they were still Marvel TV shows. However Marvel Studios itself didn't start making TV shows until Disney+.
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. alone is fuckin' leagues better than anything Marvel Studios has done so far on the TV side. And then you got Daredevil, The Punisher, the first season of Jessica Jones, etc.
Three little letters and he's already more eloquent than the head of Disney.
None of the D+ shows have came close to AOS quality. Iger should keep quiet and count his money he makes from abusive workplace practices on writers and cgi artists
IMO regardless of the canonicity of AOS it was one of the most fun interesting shows to watch in the early days of the MCU. Actually been rewatching every piece of of Marvel media chronologically right now..started with Captain America moved on to Agent Carter and so on and so forth.. and honestly watched in that way the movies almost feel incidental compared to all the TV shows produced for Marvel during that time. Same goes for The Defenders saga. Shit gets visceral on those shows. It’s a shame it got cut off when it did. Same for Agent Carter. No spoilers but S2 of Agent Carter really deserved at least a third season. Like most CEOs in the corporate hell scale that America is he has no idea what’s actually happening on the ground. I hope he gets canned.
Back to Tahiti with you
It’s a magical place.
idk if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but as a marvel comics fan first, MCU fan second-
The shows are so much more 'comics' than the movies ever were, the most recent movies are a lot closer. I love the shows so, so much. Each episode feels like grabbing that new issue of whatever run you're reading. The tone matches, the pacing matches.
Never once was there a discussion among me and the rest of my super-cool comic book friends about what was cannon, or what contradicted anything. We didnt care who showed up where, or why. We never said 'im getting comic fatigue cos too much is coming out this month'.
Thor: love and thunder captured the spirit of comics, in my opinion, greater than any other vehicle in the MCU altogether. You would regularly read a 20 page comic that started with cameo crime fighting, went to screaming goat jokes, and three panels later: cancerdeath.
dilution of focus is such a ridiculous thing to say, and the recent news that production is slowing down is a sad one to me. I have been having more fun with the recent phase than ever before, and can still just not get enough.
Such a cold take honestly. Anyone that has read comics knows agents of shield and the defenders universe HELL even runaways and cloak and dagger was the realistic marvel content. I love the movies. But waiting six months for a new season of marvel netflix and getting agents of shield all year was what gave me the feeling marvel comics gave me. The tv shows resemble comics. The movies just began to emulate othet comic book movies.
You're making a good case for why TV shows and movies shouldn't be following this method of story telling as it's the leading cause to the decline of Marvel Studios as a brand. They have to focus on being movies and shows first and foremost, and Bob Iger is very open and aware how much damage following the comics has caused them.
This isn't even a case of preference, we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars, billions even, of potential revenue being pissed away, on top of a general wider consensus of declining quality due to oversaturation.
agreed. the superfans dont understand how comics are supposed to work. sure there is connective tissue and a sense of progression between each movie/comic/tv show whatever, but they are standalone. very few comic fans read everything put out by their preferred publisher. that's insane.
You have different directors and writers just like you have different artists and writers in comics. each changes the tone, brings their own take and story. that's how it should be.
The quote stands. Regardless of canon status, AoS and The Defenders saga were productions managed under another division (marvel entertainment) with limited oversight by Kevin Feige.
I know we got some decent shows from Disney+ but I'll take Netflix Marvel and Agents of Shield any day over the mid shit they're releasing nowadays.
The only interesting shows from the MCU have been Loki, Moon Knight, and the first half of WandaVision.
I’ll take Agents of SHIELD over any of the Disney+ shows any day. Better plots, better characters, better show in general
I think it's because so much of the time it was doing its own thing. Same for the Netflix shows honestly. So many of the shows suck because they are just spending time trying to set up other shit.
Agreed. Whatever the D+ shows have done, AoS had already done it and better IMO.
I wish they would bring it back as a Disney+ show. It was so much fun to see how AoS would respond to the events in the films. Not to mention some of the guest appearances like Sif, Fury, Hill, and fleshing out of minor roles like Powers Boothe’s role in The Avengers being revealed as a major Hydra villain in AoS. It’s too bad there isn’t some ongoing show like that currently.
I have zero interest in a D+ AoS show without Mo, Jed, and Jeff running the show and them having the creative freedom to run that show.
If they had a good creative team (maybe bring the previous writers back) and had the same series length, maybe it would work on Disney+. But would it be as good without Coulson? And would it seem a bit stale and repetitive? All good things must come to an end and Agents of SHIELD is no different
I mean, it doesn't have to be a full continuation of SHIELD. Maybe a spiritual successor focusing on SWORD or something, with some old faces mixed with the new? And it doesn't necessarily have to be devoid of Coulson. Even if Gregg can't commit to a full show again, he can still come on every so often when the plot demands it.
Agreed, AoS is by far my favorite thing to come out of the MCU.
I’m with you, but for the Netflix shows. I watched the defenders saga while Hawkeye was coming out and I couldn’t believe the difference in quality. I’ve yet to rewatch any D+ show, but I’ve rewatched DD 3 times, Defenders 3 times, JJ twice and Punishers twice.
Something about those shows just makes them way more exciting to watch, even with the higher quantity of episodes.
To me, they’re better quality even with higher quantity
Yeah I think Secret Invasion has been the breaking point for me. I think on their own the little dia/monologues have been absolutely amazing, especially from Samuel L. Jackson, but the plot just doesn't seem to be going anywhere and that's where it's losing me. You can have all those great moments of acting but they don't go anywhere if nothing happens around them. Even then a lot of the series have that problem where they feel too drawn out without much character development until the last few episodes.
There are so many parallels to be made between Secret Invasion and AoS (S4 and some S7) that AoS handled so much better it's not even funny.
I mean that can be said for a lot of plot lines that are similar between AoS and D+ Marvel. AoS just had better writing overall.
I think Wandavision is extremely overrated because it had a really fun presentation and intriguing story. But things fall apart when you really dig in.
And Agents of SHIELD certainly did a much more serviceable job, in regards to Maria Hill. She was only in a handful of Season 1 and 2 episodes, but they utilized her much better than Secret Invasion did.
Manssiere!
The disrespect
Who gives a shit what is Canon. Does it really matter.
Right? I like what a like and it’s fun to watch alongside the movies.
This is hilarious
These comments coming at the time of the strike is so very wrong.
Am I joke to you?
Its canon and literally no one can tell me otherwise.
Yeah honestly, how are you going to forget that you shut down Marvel TV and gave it all to Kevin Feige
LOL.
This is gonna be brought up so much in the canon vs non canon argument lol