Diversity in Kingdom Come: Deliverance

Most commotion about diversity is the result of ragebait for the purpose of farming clicks and karma. We all played KCD1 and loved it because of the authenticity. We know KCD2 is made with the same passion and more resources so we are not worried. 

Please just don't listen to all the so called "news" outlets, they do not represent us at all.

All we want is a good game that is faithful to history and to the story of the first game, that's it. Don't let these media account stir up some made up controversy or "backlash" because there is none!

We trust that all the historical research has been done and that's enough for me at least.

Please guys, they aren't going to do some stupid stuff, they value a lot history.

kutna hora had Germans and (slavs) Czechs, also henry is fighting (turkic peoples) Cumans and (Mogyer) Hungarians. So that's pretty multiethnic... :P

I think a lot of people are making assumptions about worst-case scenarios, like soft/implicit-blackmail by gaming media, diversity consultant "experts" etc., which I think is premature.

In real life, Kutna Hora today is 93% ethnically Czech. In the past it was probably higher, but if we stick with this and say it has 200 NPCs, that leaves 14 non-Czechs, most of whom would be German, or from other neighboring lands. Maybe one or two Italians, or Turks, or so on. To me this is pretty balanced and shouldn't upset anyone.

I think the people are worried that there will be like 20 Sub-Saharan Africans, or a bunch of travelers from China, or something, which yes, would be ridiculous, but there's no evidence it's going to happen, Warhorse has been good at historical accuracy so far. People need to have patience.

There is a difference between historically accurate diversity and overplayed diversity,

Their is an actual document from Wenceslas IV from 1409 that pretty much confirms that bohemia had a wide range of ethnicities,

It mentions Saxon, bavarians, poles, Hungarians, and transylvanians, with the largest populations being of german or Czech descent,

"Diversity" is a trigger word for a lot of people. Now if they were making sure every demographic had representation and just forced it in, in a nonsensical way, I'd be annoyed... I very highly doubt that's what warhorse meant by "diversity".

"Naturally, in a place like this, people can expect a wide range of ethnicities and different characters that Henry will meet on his journey."

Yes, meaning you might encounter not only Czechs, but also Moravians, Germans, Poles, Hungarians, and maybe even a couple of Burgundians and Dutch as merchants. This is hell of a lot of ethnicities, if you think about it.

the diversity should represent 1400s kutna hora and wider bohemia and moravia. you cannot force what wasn’t onto what is, and warhorse should keep their plans. they have put tireless efforts into keeping accuracy and we should applaud it.

All I care about is historical accuracy. It's the entire draw to this series in the first place. As long as you guys don't start adding races, ethnicities, and religions that would literally never be in 15th century central Europe for any reason, I won't have any reason to be upset. I trust that'll be the case given the track record, but the media is looking for any reason possible to stir up a shitstorm over this kind of stuff because it guarantees clicks.

Looking forward to the game, one of my most anticipated sequels of all time.

The “controversy” around diversity in the first game was one of the biggest non-stories I’ve ever seen. Please do not think that the loudest people online are representative of the rest of us.

I see people are being super normal and mature about this. Wonder when the death threats will start flying.

Anyway, the diversity being based on historical records seems fine to me.

just focus on the gameplay and historical accuracy. if historically kuttenburg has 50% african people then add it, and if it didn't then don't add it. stick to historical accuracy and your core fanbase will 100% purchase and love kcd2

I really hope we'll get a Jewish community around Kuttenberg. While the main Jewish settlement in the region of the time is outside of the scopes of the map, it would be cool to have a reference to it or smaller communities elsewhere. I'm fascinated by medieval Jewish culture in Europe and KCD with its historical accuracy always got me excited to Google stuff and characters while playing it. In some ways it was almost like an immersive museum, so I believe the diversity they will depict will be realistic.

You know what, you guys are doing an awesome job and I think you should just keep doing what you're doing. 💕

I just hope that it's historically accurate, and not forced in just to be there

just make a good game and nobody will care

Some people are worried because of the word diversity that some articles use which reference this IGN interview (warhorse didn’t even use it). This answer was given in response to a IMO badly intended question to reignite the controversy surrounding the first game. It’s a trigger word because people then think it will be another Netflix Cleopatra or the BBCs portrayal of the English queen scenario. I certainly hope that is not the case and Vavra can realize his vision without the higher ups forcing changes. But with respect to different ethnicities and this statement I am not too worried. I mean Vavra posted the following about the first game, when idiots called him a racist, and I didn’t see people freaking out about it then:

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Considering that Kuttenberg is a much more metropolitan place than the rural fiefs of Radzig, Divish, and the Lords of Leipa, I think there's going to be a Jewish and Romani presence in the sequel, probably a handful of characters and a side quest or two. If there are, I hope Warhorse depicts them with tact because those are the actual marginalized communities that existed in 15th century Bohemia.

Getting into the meat of the plot, the Hussites wars, I think there's gonna be way more German characters. There were way more German-speaking people in the Bohemia of then versus the Czechia of today, and the fact that German is the majority vernacular language of the Empire lends itself to conflict and stuff. Also Hungarians, Slovaks, people from the Balkans (though people like Henry would have thought differently about these modern divisions), and folks from the rest of Europe.

There's a large difference in how people in medieval Europe thought about ethnicity and being "European" and part of "Christendom" compared to us and I hope Warhorse, as with most other things in KCD, depicts it faithfully.

What i will add to this delicate conversation is that Eastern Europeans cultures have never been depicted nor represented this way. I already knew a bit of Czech/Bohemia history with the Holy Roman Empire but anything outside that was a mystery to me, so it was a shock to the system when i found out they also say "Kurva" like the Polish and the Hungarians.

That's also why i got very upset when "journalists" started demanding diversity (Mainly the race based diversity that comes from American culture) because they clearly don't understand nor care about anything outside skin-color diversity and would scratch their heads when seeing how culturally diverse Eastern Europe is beyond "White".

That's the diversity and representation of the under-represented that we need.

There was tons of diversity in KCD!

A diverse cast of characters with different attitudes & outlooks on life!

If racial diversity is something you care about, try to grow as a person!

I thought these got banned a bit ago on the note that they couldn’t be civil or polite?

But I don't want more germans in my game. Deutsch was only bearable because we got to beat him up.

All this "diversity" talk is mostly ragebait that misconstrudes the meaning of diversity.

The game takes plase in early 15th century Bohemia. Right before the Hussite wars, when the religious tensions between the catholics, hussites, protestants and jews were high. It would also be perfectly reasonable to see characters that might be Czechs, Germans, Poles, Cumans, Hungarians, Lemkos and maybe other peoples from more far-away countries or ethnicities.

Lot of people got enraged about this because of some clickbait articles that make it seem like KCD 2 wiould have zulu warriors, samurais etc. Truth is that this diversity Warhorse is talking about will probably be Germans (who lived in Kutenberg in large numbers), Polish, Jews, Italians (invited to bohemia by I think Wenceslaus II to teach minting coinage - one of the main castles in Kutenberg is called "Vlašský Dvůr" > Vlaši meaning italians in old czech.

So everyone can stay calm. I believe Wrhorse will stay true to their historical accuracy.

Yeah but i watched a PragerU video so i know more then historians /s. Seriously though, games like these are very attractive to anti woke and anti sjw types of people i guess. I trust you guys more then armchair historians on Reddit.

The people screaming about diversity are the people that will never even play your game.

As long as this diversity comes from actual historians and not from Sweet Baby Inc, we are fine.

Real diversity comes through variety of cultures instead of superficial skin color.

KC brings more diversity to the medium with very authentic portrayal of Czech medieval culture ( instead of gods knows how many anglosaxon variations).

Besides that, this drama is kind of like "nice kind of racism". Instead of creating and promoting more movies/books/video games from other cultures, they think it somehow virtuous by adding non caucasian people into european centric ones. ( there are a ton of idiots, especially on the right, who rave about "superiority of western values" like whole history revolves around Europe and North America).

"Hey black people! We know you don't really have interesting culture of your own, so we're adding you as secondary npcs into our own. Are we not-racists?!"

Please don't go the route of so many things these days, including historically inaccurate diversity for diversity's sake. It ruins the game/movie. Case in point, Rings of Power on Amazon. The wokeness is so strong I couldn't even finish it. Please, please, don't ruin the game like this. For goodness sake, you can make a male dwarf without a beard or genitals in BG3, all in the name of diversity <eyeroll>. Dwarves without beards don't exist in the framework of fantasy lore, neither do black high elves, or Asian halflings. When I see these things in shows/games now, it's an instant turn off.

I believe that the majority of this demand for diversity is the result of rage bait. Forced diversity is bad and adding diversity for the sake of diversity feels cheap if that's the correct word. These people don't represent us and we have full confidence in your ability to make an amazing game like the first one. You have my full support and I can't wait to see what the amazing team at war horse has created.

soldier on guys

Diversity can mean different things and lead to different outcomes. I don't know about 15th century Bohemia, perhaps having an Italian travelling merchant or a community of Jews in a larger city fits with the time and era. Having a few homosexuals can obviously work, but they'd have to be secretive about it.

But I suppose it's generally not the time and era where you see a lot of different ethnicities, wasn't even like that in most of Europe 70 years ago, and today as well many places outside of cities aren't actually 'diverse'. I think Americans generally haven't much of a clue and some (or many?) automatically wanna go through their diversity checklists. American media then impacts media worldwide, unfortunately.

Just let the setting be the standard. If there are multiple ethnicities, women in power, or homosexuals then fair play.

I'd be glad to see some Poles personally ;)

The roma would be a great addition to the game to show diversity in the medival world and it would also be historically accurate.

u/Dr-Fusselpulli is there any word on when pre-orders for special editions will drop?

Hopefully these "experts" aren't from sweet baby inc or similar because you got financially and morally blackmailed into working with them.

I trust Warhorse but not the enviroment they'll be forced to work in when games get big and more money is involved, but you're not getting my money if one of these "sensitivity/diversity consulting firms" is involved

Historical authentic diversety yes, sounds good. Adding in black and latino pepole into medieval fucking Bohemia, FUCK THAT.

Didn't we have this the first time? People mad that there were no other ethnicities... but I felt 3 were a good start. Czech's, Germans, and Cumans (Which I think are Hungarian and others) is a pretty good start for 11 people to make.

I also don't know what else to say, but Central Europe is incredibly white... there were Chinese people here but they were mostly traders. I don't feel like a token Chinese trader would make the game any better or worse.

There will be lots of European diversity for sure.

But I won't throw a fit if I see a black, Arab or Turkish trader in the city -- whether this would make sense in the current political climate of the time is something I don't know.

What would be odd is seeing the main city look like modern day London or New York.

People need to realize this is 1403 (likely plus a few years in KCD2) medieval Europe. Thinking you will come across any black person on the interiors of any standing at that time is just not something that would happen often, if at all. They would be an exotic curiosity much like Asians were at the time. Port cities would likely see higher level of diversity, but much beyond would be very… very rare.

As an European I can tell you this: There is a reason why northern (Norway, Finland, Sweden) and interior nations have less ethnic diversity than port city nations. Just no way for them to make the journey.

Diversity for the sake of diversity = bad, which is what i think most people think about when devs say more diversity these days, especially with something thats supposed to be historically accurate.

Fact is, the area was very likely very diverse though, just from my own medieval documentory knowledge (which far from makes me an expert as well). Its so central that most types of people that were around at the time could have been here, and prague nearby was somewhat of a rich area people went to specifically to trade? Those travellers have to get there somehow, and would likely pop up everywhere.

I have no doubt you guys have made the game amazingly, and only look forward to playing. Just more pointing out that diversity is a bit of a sour topic atm with all the drama being caused by some 'people', but here we're very far from thar.

They should let us have hot gay sex with Capon

I would like to see Mongols, Ottomans and Turks. I know the only reason for them to be in Kuttenberg is for trade with the king but they would be insanely dangerous opponents. Plus, I'm really curious for the interactions between medieval Islam and Christianity.

Both Mongols and Turks had explosives so it would be interesting if Henry could buy like a gun from them.

I would support and welcome this. I've said before, I think it would somewhat fulfil Henry's wish of "seeing the world" and meet new people.

I would like to see a few side quests in which Henry interacts with foreign cultures (in whichever fashion the player wishes, ofc) but if you are tolerant/friendly towards these strangers, Henry gets glimpses into these faraway cultures & continents. Like trying coffee, or being shown an intricate map of the known world, all the while trying to overcome language barriers (which I think would make for some pretty hilarious dialogue options)

It's fine, I don't mind "diversity" as long as It's authentic and coherent with the world and setting you guys chose and established to be the scenario in which the game's events occur. The problem is when the woke media and their followers start to throw shit at the game and try to influence you to go against that so that their racist asses can feel included and identified with the characters, because apparently if you're not white and European, you can't identify with Henry, Hanush or Hans.

Just be rational

For me its to many studios make diversity a cornerstone just so they can say “look here! Diversity!” But it rarely if ever adds anything meaningful to the game. If it is done to add something necessary and important to the story/world building of the game then Awesome! Bring it on! if its there just to be there and win Virtue signal points then I keep my wallet to myself

I'm not worried even with the insanity of DEI these days I trust Warhorse

Game "journalists" crying wolf about ethnical misrepresentation, dishonoring and twisting our own (Czech) past and history to suit their agendas, is really sad and not representing the KCD fan community or gaming community as a whole at all. We'd all be better to ignore them.

Am I the only one who's consumed media and never once gave a second thought to the diversity of said media. I played/watched TLoU, obviously KCD, Rings of Power and pretty much anything you can think of in any genre. Never once came away thinking too many black people or gay people or women or not enough white people. The side who complains about this shit are terrible, but honestly, the other side just provokes it. Let an artist be an artist. You don't have to consume media if you don't like it and you don't have to bitch about it either. But I guess misery loves company.

They're just looking for clicks. It does annoy me a bit because it seems so dumb but I think Warhorse are gladly sticking to their vision and not giving into the nonsense. All the diversity for the sake of diversity while switching off your brain I just don't get at all.

Don’t fall prey to any of these so-called journalists or news outlets . These people only care about shoving up B.S. down gamer’s throats .

I'll just say what I always say.

Modern media developers (movies, series, games) think a diverse cast makes up for shitty interpretations and good SFX makes up for a childish-to-non-existant story.

It does not. Never.

A creator should NEVER priorize those things. Never.

Don't listen to news for that kind of stuff. They are all shit and sold over. I have many friends that (sadly) are on the woke side of the spectrum. They played KCD1 and loved it. The ones that did not like it felt pushed away by in-game mechanics, not about finding Sassau was not Wakanda, ffs...

I’m just constantly baffled with the attention to detail in KCD1 considering the amount of people you had working on it. I mean, thousands of examples, but just walk around the Rattay castle and check the walls and those areas where guards walk. Most people propably haven’t checked those areas above gates because you don’t really have business there, but damn, thats some authenticity and fine details. If that’s what you can achieve with limited budget and tiny team, I’m really not worried about the authenticity of KCD2.

Warhorse is my Dijkstra: ”if Dijkstra said that it is noon in the middle of night, it was wise to worry what had happened to the sun” (paraphrasing because I didn’t read it in english).

All characters in KCD are easily divided into one of two groups. Those that can be looted with the click of a button, and those for whom the button has to be held.

Honestly, im more concerned with Henrys hair, i dont like It, and where IS the blond coming from?

Yeah, i dont think it would be inconceivable that you would find foreign merchants or mercenaries in this big city, in fact it would be odd if you didn’t. As long as it makes sense i think people will find that it adds to the game

Diversity in Kingdom Come: DeliveranceDiversity in Kingdom Come: Deliverance hmm let's see

Since the game is based on a historical setting in the Middle Ages in the fifteenth century AD, the only ethnic groups I see here are Poles, Czechs, Silesians, Germans, Hungarians (Madziars) or from the territories of Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Germany, Hungary, nor Asians, nor blacks in those areas where the action takes place.

As if it were a fantasy medieval setting, there would be room for the creators' imagination, however, as the creators themselves said, they are in contact with local museums, historians, so they have every basis supported by historical research for not including either Asians or blacks, and this is not racism on their part.

For example, in such a series of games Assassin's Creed (I mean 1, Origins, Mirage) we have also faithfully reproduced historical realities and I can't imagine in the region of Arabia/Persia other ethnic groups as historically were in these areas.

The fantasy setting allows you to create ethnic groups at will, but the historical setting already limits you a bit in this area, so that there is full consistency.

Of course, nowadays we have pejorative definitions of racism or medieval Europe - unfortunately, people who rely mainly on social media and without thorough verification often read fake news about the history of different parts of the world, hence Clown Fiesta in discussions on the Steam tab for KCD2 about these ethnic/lgbt groups.

It is necessary to distinguish between a faithful reproduction of historical realities in the game (based on reliable historical sources, and not historical sources specially created for the theses of woke - I know what I write, because in my country the Polish left tries to make citizens believe that in the Warsaw Uprising during World War II there was a black soldier in the Polish ranks, but this is fake news reproduced by left-wing politicians who, unfortunately, do not sin the intelligence) and the setting of the fantasy genre, thanks to such a distinction everyone will be satisfied and calm.

One of the most overlooked things in the game is the VAST library of historically accurate information they packed into it. I just want them to continue their passion of making this game as awesome as possible.

Ugh, not this again. Granada was Moorish until 1492.

Warhorse devs could spare themselves a few headaches by avoiding releases in the run-up to US elections, lol.

If we see more than a handful people of colour in the game that will be enough of a hint that it's not legitimate. While there were a few different coloured people in medieval ages, Europe was predominantly white in a large majority, so I'm most certainly going to be extra careful and watch out with the curators

Not gonna comment about the npcs but it would be cool if you could get like foreign weapons or clothes

Well, I'm totally fine with the approach on kcd1. I'm pretty sure it represents not at all what the time actually was alike. But it's a believable fiction to our best knowledge. What else could one ask for? 

Maybe it was super diverse, maybe not. All we know for sure is that it was equal brains inside the skulls of those people just like ours. There were intelligent and dumb just as today and the laws of group dynamics were the same. People back then didn't see themselves living in medieval times but in hyper modern times, just as we believe either. 500 years from now people will look back at us, laughing about our primitive habbits and world views they will believe we had. And their view on us will be just as over simplyfied as is ours on past centuries.  

When gold found it's way more than 4000 years ago from Egypt to the center of Germany already. And Stonehenge was known and visited by people from Switzerland back in it's days. Then you better believe that there was a lot more cultural exchange and travel ongoing than we tend to believe. How welcoming these travelers were treated? We have no clue. I bet it was just like it is today since why not? 

But it's a videogame. We want it to be like we believe these times have been. Not necessarily how they really were. Not to say that we don't know it anyways 😀 Just keep up the great work you invested alteady in part one and keep going that path. Because much more important than the authencity of this world is it's consistency. That is what makes it immersive and believable eventually. 

Is was just thinking the other week that the Romani people (gypsies) arrived in the area of Bohemia in the 14th century

Please just focus on making the game as realistic and authentic as you possibly can (whatever that entails), without sacrificing that goal to appease to certain people. PLEASE.

Is some of the rather uninformed criticism problematic? Yes.

Do some people try to fend off any criticism and hide behind polarized and culture war slogans? Hell yes.

Is Dan Vavra completely responsible for opening the project to this kind of criticism? Absolutely. For not wanting to bring politics into it he is very quick to get into very heated debates and state more than controversial views.

Are Dan's views forced into KCD? I think no.

One does not have to join some polarized camp here... all of the above can be true at the same time.

It is disappointing how few people can state their opinion here without inserting their own agenda, sometimes with rather aggressive language as well that they are accusing others of using.

The defensiveness is very telling. As is the making up of accusations the game has not really received.

Diversity is good as long as its serves the story and worldbuilding. Sacrificing believability and turning kuttenberg in modern day california would spoil what this game has to offer.

Hi, huge fan of the first game. Just getting started. This is a bit of a sensitive topic, but can I choose to be Jewish in the next game or will the topic of Judaism in these areas be discussed from a historical perspective? Here’s an example. Thanks!

So what's the problem is there is no diversity?

I don't think anyone even listens to the gaming "journalists" these days.
They haven't been relevant for 10 years and are just clickbait and ragebait these days, desperately trying to get views or force their personal neo-religion...oops, I mean, ideology, on the rest of us.

I wish your game success and I'm glad you don't plan to change anything to appease those who don't even play games to begin with.

Its actually super simple. Let creators have full freedom in what they create, likewise we as consumers have the same freedom to buy the product or not.

Keep it historically accurate and let the babies cry about it

I am ready to pay $100 for the game, but please stay as you are. Those who want diversity in this game simply don't buy such games, they just talk. I am Russian and played as the Poles, and I enjoyed this game. I even bought all the DLCs, even though I didn't like them, but the game itself is simply amazing. Stay true to yourselves

I completely trust them to get this right. I will be shocked if they do something like go and invent an Estrid Haakon or something utterly moronic like that. Ethnicity means a very different thing outside of the US, which is where a lot of the woke and reactionary rage to things like that seems to originate. USians seem to think that race/ethnicity is “White, Black, Asian, American Indian, and Hispanic” - if even that - while pretty much the rest of the world absolutely does not. Just ask a Serbian or Albanian to list the first five ethnicities that come to their mind and you’ll see what I mean.

ALSO, it is entirely possible to have people that would be considered “ethnic” even by US woke standards, as long as we’re talking very few people, not among the nobility, who are visiting from foreign countries either as merchants or dignitaries. This is the late Middle Ages and the world was beginning to become a little more cosmopolitan. The Spanish would go on to colonize (and mercilessly pillage) the New World later this very same century, and travel between Europe, Africa, and Asia had already easily surpassed even that seen during the Roman Empire.