I know Ethan’s not the only one who’s said this, but he criticised olivia for retweeting something that said “from the river to the sea” in the latest synt
Isn’t it an old phrase from the PLO when their charter was explicitly ethnonationalist? I get that people are using it differently but at the end of the day it’s a bit like saying “make america great again” JUST means “oh we’re gonna make america a better place to live :)”
Joe Biden saying he is going to make America great again is obviously a different message than Donald Trump saying he is going to make America great again. To pretend that you need to go full MAGA in interpreting Joe Biden is the exact problem. It's disingenuous or wildly ignorant at a minimum.
I’d liken it more to a small child who doesn’t know the full implication of the trump campaign using it over Biden. Biden would be “reclaiming” it in a way while the child is probably just using it to mean whatever they want regardless of context. I don’t think that makes the child extremely pro trump but I do think that makes the child (like most children) ignorant
Who is the small child?
It would be somebody using “from the river to the sea” to mean something different to the PLO meaning. If there was a clear evolution of the term I’d be all for the argument that it just means something different now but with the stunning amount of ethnonationalism we’ve seen this month I think we can both agree plenty of people are using it the PLO way
This is why leftists widely criticized the South Park episode where they started calling bikers the f slur and arguing it’s no longer a homophobic slur. People are still using it as a homophobic slur even if a large group of people never use it to refer to a gay person
By this logic you should be cool with people who fly the rebel flag claiming that it’s simply morphed into an expression of Southern culture as opposed to a declaration of hate against black people.
I think ignorance is better than knowledgeable hatred yes. We’re all born ignorant and most of us die ignorant. I’ll more than likely die ignorant on some topics
You’re making a complete assumption of what people are using that phrase for. Every single pro-Palestinian supporter I’ve seen and spoken with uses it the way Hasan did - to mean freedom from oppression, NOT an eradication of the Jews. They’re referring to the ongoing treatment of Palestinians within Gaza and the West Bank, where they essentially live in a caste system that they’re at the bottom of, where they can’t walk on certain streets, where they get beat by the IDF for merely existing.
No I’m not. I’m very clearly breaking it down into people who use it wrong- people who aren’t genocidal, and people who are using it right, genocidal antisemites. It’s great that you’ve curated your friend group to not include these people (although part of privilege is being unfamiliar with antisemitism and missing some of it) but people on this sub are definitely antisemitic. Hasan is arguably antisemitic, but personally it just seems like he’s so anti-American foreign policy to me that he’s willing to go to great lengths to cover for antisemites (Hakim and second thought in that episode of leftovers come to mind)
How is Hassan anti-Semitic?
No. You ARE making an assumption. And you’ve additionally made an assumption that I don’t know what I’m talking about even though my husband is Jewish and an Anti-Zionist.
It’s not antisemitic to call out a government for war crimes against a population that they have full control over and trapped in an open air prison, and I’d love for you to explain to me why you believe that disagreeing with the concept of Zionism somehow equates to wanting another holocaust. Everyone has a right to feel safe in their own country, Jews and Palestinians alike.
Oh that’s cool, but caping this hard for Hasan is pretty definitive proof you don’t know what antisemitism looks like or you have watched so little of his israel/Palestine content that you haven’t watched him suck off an antisemite live on air.
You’re talking past me so this’ll be my last comment but Hasan’s friends go way further than criticizing Israel. Support of Hamas, including a reframing of them as liberators or October 7th as a revolutionary action is a deeply antisemitic action, which should be even worse for you because Hamas explicitly wants your husband dead (they don’t say Israeli in the charter from 5 years ago and there’s been very little evidence they’ve changed their opinion on Jews since). This is when Hasan’s friends are going mask on about the antisemitism and framing it as pro-Palestinian argumentation, when they’re mask off (which Ethan confronted Hasan with, Hasan responded that they’re his very close friends, correct, and that it just “doesn’t look good” essentially) they’re laughing about October 7th. The fact your husband is Jewish doesn’t shield you from ever possibly being problematic about Jews, it actually makes it worse
Jesus. You are unhinged.
Pretty much. The original phrase translates to "from water to water, Palestine will be Arab." It literally means Jews will be cleansed from the river to the sea (Israel is between the river and the sea).
"B-b-but it just means Palestinians should be free!" is like drawing swastikas and saying it's just a Hindu peace symbol. At best these people are deeply ignorant and don't understand that they're chanting genocidal dogwhistles.
I think it’s fair to call most people pretty ignorant on this issue. This is by all intents and purposes a pretty obscure factoid (in the west) and social media deliberately avoids showing you good arguments from people you disagree with.
the meanings of things change all the time. Why can't "From the river to the sea" mean a free Palestine? Clearly it does for Olivia.
No. It can't. Because it already means what it means. Otherwise, they'd use a different phrase.
Pretty narrow and very incorrect view of real life you have there.
sorry that words and ideas have agreed upon definitions. generally don’t swap the entire connotation and message of a word or an idea unless something drastic happens. And usually it takes hundreds of years lol. You’re just completely incorrect if you think from the river to the sea has suddenly changed in meaning in the thirty years since their charter and Israelis further subsequent occupation. You can be for a free Palestine and not defend such asinine rhetoric.
You're obviously wrong considering many people have already said what their usage of it is, and it's not yours. Just because it has different meaning to you doesn't mean it has to have that same meaning to them.
You could tell me that the Confederate flag has a different meaning to you and I’d still call you asinine.
Just because someone doesn’t understand the words they’re using and interpret something incorrectly, doesn’t mean their newly used incorrect language is now suddenly correct. You sound ridiculous
Obviously if I say some phrase only used by Nazis, I'm being a Nazi and not suddenly changing what it means. So it's a good thing I never made that argument.
If many people say one thing and ascribe a meaning to it, that meaning is valid to that thing.
Totally. For example, I can say ‘fuck you and your entire family’ and mean that I hope you live a blessed life.
Because you have a healthy portion of people saying it who also want Israel gone entirely. Trying to say "it's different when I say it" is at the very least not effective
I doubt it. Ethan isnt the only person saying this about "From the river to the sea"
It’s been an Israeli propaganda talking point for long enough for him and his IDF girlfriend to start parroting.
Basically do everything and anything to talk about anything other than the atrocities and war crimes.
You guys clearly just learned about this conflict a month ago lmao. “From the river to the sea” has been a contentious slogan for a very long time.
Every talking point against Israel is contentious. Even BDS was called "antisemitic".
Yeah other than being Palestinian, living in the West Bank 50ft away from a fence dividing us from a new settlement, having been turned away at apartheid checkpoints while trying to travel in the west bank, having my mother assaulted at a check point, having more AR's pointed at me before I was 15 than any veteran I know, having my grandfather (a retired accountant) murdered by bored Israeli soldiers in his own home, and having two uncles on my father's side tied up and blindfolded for fun in that same home in the West Bank before the soldiers just walked away laughing, having a Palestinian wife who's grandparents were displaced to Jordan during the Nakba, having family in Nablus, watching bored soldiers break into my home while I was in America just to shoot the walls, furniture, and TV for funsies (all on home surveillance cameras)...
Other than that, I honestly didn't know anything was even going on over there. Luckily I have you here to fucking educate me.
I’m sorry my friend ❤️ to you and Free Palestine 🇵🇸!
Palestine is a suburb of Cleveland?
Imagine being such a genocide propagandist that you forget that people can live in two different places over the course of a 30 year life.
You know people can move right?
I swear I'm tripping balls, it's so uncomfortable watching people grapple with this topic for the first time
It's 2040 and white power is just something white people say to congratulate each other
"everything that's against my views is propaganda. hamas? al jazeera? now that's what i call a reliable, propaganda-free source"
Ethan paused leftovers so he can keep talking about Israel without being fact checked by hasan lol
Which is hilarious because like he’s still wrong, like hide all you want you just look dumber
Hasan talks out his ass. Has he analyzed any explosions lately? JDAM or misfire?
Free Palestine
Hasan isn’t watching SYNT bro
Doubt it. Unlike Ethan, I don't see Hasan pulling snakey shit like that. I think he's making a point about the general discourse surrounding the slogan rn.
I don't see Hasan pulling snakey shit like that.
Lmao
Hasan fans are are delusional
Yeah it’s like why is Ethan “snakey” but Hasan isn’t exactly? Thats not antisemitic at all…
Watching their last episode together and not realizing that he didn't respect him at all is exactly that. But I guess I deserved the downvotes here.
Or Black Lives Matter does NOT mean kill all cops
“Fry em like bacon. “
It's interesting seeing how biased everyone is, but also everyone is so passionate about being right that they really do research for their side, which is great!
Personally when we start discussing what is ownership and focus less on the atrocities happening or happened , we can then understand what needs to happen and be more defined in what is right and wrong.
Personally I begrudgingly feel Israel has a right to exist in regards as a country due to worldwide anti semitism, so I can sympathise as to why they wanted a home to feel protected. I also feel it is bullshit that a religion can declare itself a people and now lay claim to land, so totally understand the pissed of nature from Palestinians.
So if we speak of historical claims to the land is ownership, then yes Jewish people do have claim to land in Palestine due to the religion originating from those lands of historical Canan.
If land is won through military take over, then Britain has some right to have given it away due to being the major military power at the time.
It's a tricky subject to solve no doubt, but I think it's revealed a lot of anti west and anti Semitic people. Especially in the Arab world (my partner is Arab) and I say this as a non Jewish non Israeli. Why do we not have outrage at the Turkish occupation of Northern Cyprus? Surely Ukraine should be given back to Russia? What of the ethnic cleansing of afghans being kicked from Pakistan? What about the expulsion of Jewish people from all over the middle east in the past 50years? What of Iran not allowing Jewish people to run for any political seat, offering and Jewish person who converts to Islam ownership over their Jewish families property?
It's very clear to me, there is a bias, and I'm sure I have biases. But atleast when discussing big topics like this, we should all make an effort to think about the bigger question rather than what emotionally feels right, right?
Histocial claims always start and end whenever the group in power wants them too. Zionists often bring up the 12 tribes of Israel from around 1000 BC as a claim to the land. But 500 years before and leading up the formation of the tribes that was all part of the new kingdom of Egypt. So if we are going based off historical claims why would they not go back another 500 years?
In the modern era we determine ownership by who currently lives there. Israel has existed 'between the river and the sea's for the past several decades, that land is theirs. In the west bank they are displacing Palestinians who have lived there for much longer, that land is Palestinian
Any discussion of historical claims is unhelpful for this topic, we can't remove people or states purely because in the past someone else lived there. What you can do instead is respect the rights of people currently living in a place
I think the idea of telling people to "go back where you came from" when they were born in that country is a very disgusting take. Lots of Jews in Israel were born there. It is their home. A two state solution is the only way.
Israel is a nuclear armed nation, not believing they have a right to exist won't remove them
I'm just wondering who everyone wants to kick off the war to exterminate them
or how a nuclear conflict in the region will help Gaza
Might doesn’t make right, unless you’re talking about global geopolitics. The reality is that Israel has been attacked by their neighbors countless times, responded with decisive victory, and then given the land back to make peace.
All the slogans in the world won’t change the fact that they are not leaving and they’ve proven it.
they didn’t given palestinians their land to make peace, though. & what about what’s happening on the WB? that doesn’t seem very peaceful to me
i think trying to paint Israel as passive (but victorious 💪) victims that only deal fairly is absurd
It is not. A one state solution doesn't eliminate Israelis from their home. What it does do is give Palestinians a right to live there.
"bUt ThEr'Ye FrOm BrOoKlYn LmAo"
Absolutely based response. I also slightly disagree with Hasan's take on "From river to the sea"-slogan's meaning. Hamas took it when they were formed and for them it means basically the elimination of the "jewish sovereignty in the region"Wiki
So to say that people "just" mean "Free Palestine" is a bit disingenuous because that is not the only usage of the slogan
I doubt it. But I really hope Hasan can teach and humble Ethan on this. But knowing Ethan's Zionist dicksucking and absolute disregard towards Palestinians, it's really a pipe dream, sadly
I don’t think I’ve actually seen anything he’s said that has pointed to anything claimed about Ethan.
Every man and their dog is 100% aware of the plight of the Palestinian people, I don’t think there is anything wrong with pointing out there are victims on the other side too.
Like I’m almost 100% sure if we put down dot points of what people believe about the situation and other dot points of what Ethan believed they almost line up perfectly.
Ethan just made the horrible mistake of being empathetic to Israeli citizens, who no doubt deserve empathy.
It’s giving “white genocide”
It’s that Charlottesville “Jews will not replace us” energy
Isn't it sad when you have to explain slogans like this? good thing Destiny Loves You means exactly what it says.
“From the river to the sea” means the eradication of the Israel state by forming one state Palestine.
Who told you that?
Literally read any main stream article or Wikipedia about the meaning of the slogan , https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/11/2/from-the-river-to-the-sea-what-does-the-palestinian-slogan-really-mean here is an Al Jazeera article on it .
Dude I don’t think you read that article, pro Israeli sources will always say the slogan is anti Israel even though they use the same slogan to prove that you have more of a right to the land than Palestinians
pro Israeli sources will always say the slogan is anti Israel
Because it is? At its most generous, it involves the formation of a Palestine that extends from the River Jordan to the Mediterranean sea.
Palestine currently does not extend from the River Jordan to the Mediterranean. This would necessitate Israel giving up vast swaths of land to achieve the goal of the slogan. How is that not anti-Israel?
The PLO, who coined the term
I've been following this conflict my entire life and have been to many rallies (before this current conflict), never once did I interpret "from the river to the sea" as the expulsion of all Israeli's. You guys are seriously trying too hard to condemn peaceful protests. It literally means free, like no checkpoints, allow people to travel, live normal lives, not be oppressed, etc.
I'm sorry but this is such a stupid ass analogy.
Yes, slogans are intentionally misunderstood by people against the movement.
But the phrase "from the river to the sea" has INTENTIONALLY been used by terrorists as an effort to dissolve Israel. He's an idiot for saying this is the same as BLM.
Decades of scholars and institutions saying that it does mean eradicate Israel, ADL, banned in Vienna, doesn't seem to matter...
Good thing there's a pretty big difference between what a Jihadist terrorist organization propped up by Iran means and what the average supporter of ending Zionist apartheid means.
That distinction is simply not made true, and a lot of people using this slogan in protests are using it to support Israel dissolving. It's not uncommon for slogans to be intentionally misinterpreted, but there is the intent that's a real danger here as well.
Yea but it's still their slogan. BLM as a slogan doesn't have its origins from a terrorist group. I think that makes it clearly different imo.
BLM's official website specifically says they believe in all lives matter anyways. People just choose to ignore that.
It’s cool to prescribe your own definitions for other peoples movements.
The slogan has been used by militant groups including Hamas and Islamic Jihad that have vowed to destroy Israel. It is regarded by the ADL as antisemitic or hate speech suggesting that it denies the right of Jews for self-determination, or advocates for their removal or extermination.[5][6][7] It has also come under scrutiny in Germany, Austria, the Netherlands and the UK, where it has been proposed to classify it as a criminal offense.
It’s amazing that all you leftists want peace and a one state solution. But the majority of Palestinians want nothing less but the destruction of Israel, and Israel is tired of 75 years fighting for its survival from every single one of the 10 surrounding Arab states. Hence why this conflict can’t be solved to this day. Israel ain’t going to pack up and leave, nor is Palestine. Idk if y’all looked at a map recently but river to sea seems to have irael right in the middle of it lmfao
“We are dropping hundreds of bombs on Gaza. The focus is on destruction, not accuracy.” Daniel Hagari, Israeli army spokesman
“We will turn Gaza into an island of ruins” - Bibi
“Jericho missile! Doomsday weapon! That’s my opinion. Powerful rockets to be fired without borders, Gaza to be smashed and razed to the ground. Without mercy.” Tally Gotliv, Israeli politician
“Wipe out their families, their mothers, and their children. These animals must not be allowed to live any longer.” Ezra Yachin, veteran of the Israeli army, in a ‘motivational speech’ for members of the IDF
“Animal humans will be treated accordingly, you wanted hell and you’ll get hell” Ghassan Alian, major general
These are certainly the words of a people who are simply tired of defending themselves from the Arabs.
That is what happens when Palestinian militants attack Israel on and off for 75 years. 10/7 wasn't the first time they snuck in to slaughter innocents and likely won't be the last. They hate Jewish people, that is all
Yeah, when you massacre people and then celebrate in the streets, turns out they won't look kindly upon you. FAFO
And that justifies calls for genocide? Wiping out ‘families, their mothers, and their children’?
75 years of stealing land from people is not “fighting for its survival”.
What your calling “stealing” was actually land capture during wars started by Arab nations since 1948. Israel actually gave a large portion back to Egypt and Lebanon, but after the Syrian egypt attack in 1973 from the golan heights, that area is used to conduct mortar and rocket attacks, therefore not being given back.
Israel was formed on stolen land. The Arabic attacks were to prevent that theft. Israelis are not the native people of that land.
They actually were the native people of that land but the Romans banished them all. In 1936 around 28% of the population of the Palestine area was Jewish. In the subsequent UN partition of 1947 the Jews were given 60% of the land and the rest went to the Arabs. This might seem unfair until you realize that 60% of the land the Jews were given was the Negev desert which was entirely useless land. The land division made sure that the Jews were the majority in the land that was given to them and vice versa for the Arabs.
It’s been 70 years since Israel was founded. Even if you think the land was stolen, Israel is here to stay. Are you also in favor of giving back the USA to the Native-Americans or Peru to the Aztec? The USA got its land in a much more brutal way than Israel ever did.
Edit: Inca not Aztec
The people within that region predate all abrahamic religions. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all lived in peace for centuries. Israel is a fabricated state based on a story. They was no Israel before 1948 and was founded on the notion of cleansing the land of those living there. It is not a Jewish state. It is a Zionist one. It is genocidal. You are a colonizer sympathizer.
There has also never bein a Palestinian state. From the time of the Greeks, to when Jordan and Egypt owned the land, and sold it to creat Israel in 47. Thousands of years and the people of Palestine have always bein a part of a larger empire or split between states. Hamas founding documents specifically call for the genocide of every Jew in Israel, nothing less will be accepted. 75 years of terror, finally Israel will have peace!!
Israel’s founding documents call for the expulsion of all Arabs
People carried Palestinian passports between 1917-1948
The land of the Philistines was referred to in common parlance as Palaestina as recorded by Herodotus. After that, it was an annexed nation under the Roman Empire called Syria-Palestine.
The original Hamas manifesto was not a "founding document" lmao. It was written by a single dude, no one else in Hamas even looked over it, and it's riddled with grammatical errors and spelling mistakes. The 2017 revised Hamas Manifesto explicitly states that Zionism is antisemitic and that Palestinians have no issue with Judaism or non-Zionist jews
Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage. The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine
David Ben-Gurion and his co-conspirators worked out the specifics on how small the indigenous population needed to be for "balance"- which according to Ben-Gurion and those who orchestrated and carried out the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, is 80% Israelis, 20% Arabs. You can read more super totally fun and not at all soul-crushing genocide facts in Israeli historian Ilan Pappe's The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.
There was no USA till the war of independence either. Yet the USA exists. All states are myths and they are based on a collective story we all agree on. Already during the Iron Age there was a Jewish state in that region. That’s not a story, that’s just a fact.
I’ve provided data that the Jews were already living there before the UN partition of 1947. Why can’t the Jews have their own state according to you?
Also, if the goal of Israel was to cleanse the land, why are there Arab political parties, Arab doctors and Arab judges in Israel?
You should read up on the goals on early Zionists and they're explicit goals towards Palestine.
The USA should not exist either this is not the argument you think it is
That was Jewish land long before Islam even existed, until the earlier colonizers of the Roman Empire expelled them
It belonged to the Canaanites long before Judaism existed.
Do you not realize you are blatantly contradicting yourself?
You can't have your cake and eat it.
Either the land rightly belongs to Palestine since they are the most real owners who got overthrown by Israel, or that whole "who conquered the land first owns it" thing is BS.
Since you are acknowledging that the canaanites owned the land before Jews took it, that defacto means that the Jews have more of a right to the land then Palestinians if you use your logic. And the canaanites have even more of a land than both Jews and Palestinians!
How the fuck is that my logic? Nowhere that I say who conquers the land owns it. I’m saying the people that are indigenous to there get it so the land belongs to Palestine. The Palestinians did not gain the land because of conquest they were already there. God, you’re fucking dumb.
There doesn't exist a single location on Earth that wasn't conquered from someone else at some point. Arabs conquered the area from the Byzantines in the 600s, who had conquered it from the Romans, who had conquered it from the Hebrews, who had conquered it from the Canaanites (who are extinct)
you think ashkenazi jews have a claim to any place they never settled in. you think ethiopian jews and indian jews who look like regular ethiopians and indians are indigenous to the levant? the same goes for ashkenazis who have a very distant link genetically to the area.
we need to resettle africa since that's where we all came from.
these are post-hoc justifications for colonization
If you have to go all the way back to the Roman Empire to be like this is my land and pretend the 2000 years in between didn’t happen it ain’t your land
News flash, the ancestral roots of modern Palestinians go back just as far as those of Israelis. Just because the religion they practice today did not exist before the 7th century doesn't mean that they don't have ancestral roots that predate Islam.
Citing ADL and 4 governments who have all supported Israel's ongoing genocide to say that the phrase is bad is very funny to me. Thumbs up!
Your overly charitable version or this slogan is not how Palestinians feel. They feel entitled to all the land from the river to the sea. Including Israel, they want to genocide the Jews and steal the land
I'm sure there are plenty of Palestinians that feel that way. Especially since what Israel is doing.
But you're acting as if it's not just a majority (which isn't true), you're acting like it's each and every one of them, which is even more ridiculous.
I don't really care about the potential eradication of Israel, if we get an equal one state solution, and that one state democratically decides to rename the state to Palestine, I don't care, because I like democracy and dislike religious ethno-states.
The ADL is literally an IDF asset so you’re shooting your own credibility using them at all but you’re also obviously astroturfing so hope the IDF pays you well
No one’s gives a fuck what river to sea means to you personally. To the people of Palestine it’s a call to genocide the Jews. Shows you’ve never seen a map lmfao
It’s not to me personally but you’re a blood thirsty Zionist so you don’t deal in reality
So tell me then, what is exists between the river and sea that the arabs feels so entitled to
The homes they were violently moved from and the land they have lived in for generations where they aren’t allowed to move, work, vote, or live freely with equal rights to Israeli citizens.
Great, now what happens to all those people who have settled there over the past 75 years? Are they meant to go into the river? Or the sea part?
“I was right about Ukraine” dude has no clue what he’s talking about. About literally anything. https://youtu.be/HPaHRTi49Ow?si=_mcVkA-OlK8a3flC
Yea let’s ignore everything else bc he once thought regional and world powers would end up acting rationally (since doing exactly what happened would mean economic ruin). There’s a reason why he is successful and will continue to be successful.
As a Ukrainian leftist, Hasan's takes on Ukraine were the most factually incorrect out of the streamers I listen to.
Yea I’m not saying he was right or is right all the time. On a lot of topics he resonates with many people out there though so saying he doesn’t know what he is talking about at all isn’t a correct statement.
No, he consistently supports imperialist genocide. That’s a bad thing to support, call me crazy.
I’ll be generous, he’s just stupid, same with supporting Hamas as the amazing fact finding group we all know they are /s
Yeah but the Tibetans owned slaves! Therefore they don't deserve autonomy, they needed a stronger outside power to teach them right from wrong (savages!)
/s
It's honestly a shame ethan is too naive or not well read enough to point out how explicitly Tibetan culture is being eroded.
Considering how much I used to watch him, yeah I wouldn't have if I didn't feel like he had a good point on most topics. I've just felt pretty put off by some of his recent commentary from the past year.
Big sad :(
Literally just look into the history of the phrase. How the fuck this idiot gets people supporting his flat out bullshit when the information is out there for everyone is perplexing.
And then when you read the meaning, no doubt it will be rebuffed with "but no one in the west is meaning it that way when we say it". So don't fucking say it. The global optic of saying "Heil Hitler" wouldn't have been changed just because you were ignorant to the meaning.
This guy is a fucking moron
I don’t think saying Palestine will be free is the anywhere near the exact same as heil hitler. You have a country (Israel) that keep expanding against international law and whichever Arabs/Palestinians are left alive to live under new Israeli rule are treated like second and third class citizens. Crazy to me how people in the US are okay with expansion of a nation born out of immigration without calling for their efforts to assimilate to the local area and are okay with them conducting ethnic cleansing.
And the confederate flag just means states rights and southern heritage.
Jesus....fuckin....christ. How many times does it have to be stated? The history leading up to the phrase being coined and even what you have today with Hamas flat out stating they will not stop until every Jew is out of the land is all of the evidence you need to make it incredibly clear. "Palestine" is not free while sharing land or not being given the land they think is rightfully theirs in a two-state solution. The arab powers, groups, committees, and leaders ALL stated this from 1917 all the way up to sticking by that until 1948. The wars that happened AFTER 1948 were mainly due to this motion as well.
Post 1948: Israel handed Palestine over to Arab powers and let mainly Egypt and the Arab League. This was the All-Palestine government. EGYPT AND THE ARAB LEAGUE completely controlled the areas and Israel had absolutely no hand in it. This was all the way until 1956
Moral of story: Israel, Egypt, Arab league, and Palestine (given pre-1948 actions dating back to WWI) at fault
1956: Suez Canal Crisis. Go read up, young ones. Good ole Nasser decided to completely take over the canal and nationalize it. In direct conflict with France, Israel, US, and Britain and others who relied on it. This was a DIRECT confrontational move and reaction to mainly the US. Egypt was promised to have financing of the Aswan High Dam from the US and Britain, but they "broke" their promise once he decided to start getting cozy with the USSR against their warnings. The US warned them multiple times not to do so or they would cut ties. So what does Nasser do? Yeah, he decides the US/Britain are bluffing and gets even more cozy with the USSR. All the US/UK stated was "We're not funding your dam now" and this lead your brilliant, and totally non-violent, Egyptian kingpin into taking over the entire canal and sparking a crisis. All because he tried to have his cake and eat it too. Due to Gaza being populated by Egyptian armed forces, infrastructure, and more they had to be bystanders of the conflict while they dealt with Egypt being utter morons. Guess what? A little international pressure and within months Israel ended the occupation completely.
Moral of story: Egypt and Gaza at complete fault. Gazans supported Nasser's moves and even helped in the conflict. Somehow Israel still backs off
1959: All-Palestine government dissolved and Egypt takes entire control once again in 59. Egypt had EVERY opportunity to annex the strip or give it independence or literally fuckin anything. But they decided themselves to keep it as a controlled territory and controlled it through a military governor. Israel did not restrict Gazan movement. Egypt did. The Egyptian government literally imposed restrictions on Gazan movement in and out of the area and were the sole reasons for a drastic decrease in standards of living. This lasted until 1967.
Moral of story: This right here is where all of this could have potentially been resolved. But your good ole Arab brothers absolutely screwed Gaza and other Palestinians. They ruled by military force and flat out refused to allow Palestinians any sort of freedom of movement, citizenship, independence, or anything. Egypt at fault once again.
1967: Tensions flared between Egypt, alongside other Arab allies, against Israel. Israel warned dozens of times if they shut the canal down again they were asking for war as they had no claim to the canal or control and would be breaking international law. Good ole Nasser, alongside the other Arab allies involved, decided to take control of the canal once again and not only that, but placed a massive chunk of their armed forces directly on the border of Israel. Israel told them dozens of times to back off and to reopen the canal and they refused. Israel attacked and this lead to the six day war. Due to Egyptian forces in the area and Egyptian control, Israel was forced into invading Gaza as well. After the "war" concluded Israel occupied Gaza. THIS right here was the turning point in how Israel dealt with Gaza and what lead up to today. Israel grew tired of their actions, support of Egypt, and overall conflict between them. This is where Israel started taking more control of Gaza and added settlements. Despite this, Gaza's quality of life and economy prospered and new work opportunities for both Gazans and Israelis popped up. in 1979 Israel and Egypt signed a peace treaty and Israel backed out of land they gained from the war with them, but Egypt and Israel both did not discuss, nor care, about the Palestinian issue. Egypt had every chance, once again, to place wording in the treaty regarding handling of Gaza, but refused to do so. Israel maintained control.
Moral?: Egypt and Arab state aggression once again.
1987: First Intifada.
Moral: Palestinians aggression, but this time Israel is at fault as well for letting it fester and not dealing with the problems.
1994: Yitzhak Rabin transferred governmental authority to Palestinians through the Oslo Accords. Control and authority was handed back to the Palestinians except for a few settlements and military areas. ISRAEL LEFT GAZA ONCE AGAIN EVEN AFTER ALL OF THE BULLSHIT ABOVE. PLO took control and this extended to the west bank through another peace treaty. Israel built a strip barrier for security in Israel and left.
Moral: Good
2000: Second Intifada. Palestinians decided that the small amount of Israeli occupied areas alongside the failure of the 2000 camp david summit was enough to tear down most of the strip barrier, conduct suicide bombings, and attack IDF as well as civilian Israelis. This is the start where Hamas and the Palestinian Jihad group started shooting rockets into Israel. Israel reconstructed the barrier and added even more to it. Egypt and Israel decide they have had enough and lock down control on their nothern, and southern, waters, airspace, and crossing points. All through an agreement between the two. Egypt decided Palestine was so clearly in the wrong they ramped up a strict blockade and did not allow free travel into the nation.
Moral: You would have to be absolutely delusional to think even regional Arab states entirely condemning and blockading Palestinians as being Israel's fault. Egypt still did not like Israel at all, but viewed mainly Gaza as being absolutely barbaric and troublesome. To the point of siding with Israel.
2005: Israel backs out even further from mainly Gaza. International crybabies decided it wasn't enough and pointed the finger at Egypt and Israel controlling airspace and waters. Even through all of this Israel maintained, supported, and kept supply of utilities, telecommunications, water, power, etc to Gaza. And this wasn't due to them seizing those assets. They fucking built them.
2006: Hamas won plurality and assumed power of Gaza. Practically the entire world asked Gaza/Hamas to honor previous agreements, renounce violence, and recognize Israel's right to exist. Hamas absolutely refused and infighting between Fatah and Hamas started. Hamas broke the Egyptian-brokered truce in 2007 which prompted Israel to step in and they destroyed a building used by Hamas. Even through all of this, Hamas tried to blame Israel and then entirely took over. West bank cut them off and declared a state of emergency. Israel and Egypt entirely closed the borders. Hamas somehow had over 60 tunnels between the border of Egypt and themselves and were caught hundreds of times smuggling arms into the area.
Moral: Gaza and Hamas are so clearly in the wrong even other Palestinians announced a state of emergency and Egypt themselves had to shut the borders down.
2008: Hamas destroyed parts of the wall between Gaza and Egypt and caused a crisis of refugees into Egypt that they had to deal with. Egypt arrested many Hamas militants that infiltrated the refugees in hopes of smuggling weapons back across or gaining direct access to Israel itself through Egypt. Gaza/Hamas then decided to launch rockets into Israel which kickstarted the 2008 Israel-Gaza conflict. More infighting happened between Palestinians.
Moral: Wow, Gaza/Hamas again. Getting old.
The rest is just Hamas, PLO, and Israel rotating asshurt at each other. The statement "from the river to the sea" was littered throughout all of this and MOST of the time it was stemming from Gaza/Hamas. So take the above into account and you do your own critical thinking.
Swallowing IDF propaganda without even chewing
Didn’t read. From the river to the sea Palestine will be free
Then go over there and help them. Man up, grab a rifle, and figure it out. Tired of all of these terminally online tankies pushing vile rhetoric. Just screaming the loudest from their small little contained communities calling for the "oppressed" to fight back. Practically all you guys discuss are matters surrounding direct violence or hinting at future violence. But the reality is just laughable as 99% of you are just terminally online social outcasts who found a belonging in niche internet communities and get deeply invested into bloodshed while I've seen hundreds of comments from you guys in other subs (history) stating you physically cried when someone misgendered you or was sexist lmfaooooooo. Grow a pair. Sign up and go shoot at the oppressors.
Didn’t read
The way most of the cry babies on this sub pick sides and are team Hasan or team Ethan is honestly pathetic. And no, I am not being a "both-sides" guy regarding the genocide happening in Gaza, aka the actual conflict that matters, I am simply referring to this chronically online conflict.
I do think they both are extremely hurt and still care for each other, however they got caught in this utterly idiotic brain disease that happens in online communities of edgy leftist-wannabees who think saying outrageous shit online is activism, who care more about their internet drama and cyberbullying as "praxis", while LARP-ing as socialists, than they care about the actual fight, the actual tragedy, the actual genocide happening as I write these words.
In a way, I believe this fits in a way Baudrillard's idea of a simulacra. You have replaced the reality of the material fighting in Gaza with a simulation of a simulation, fighting in the abstract. Never stopping to remember that this is utterly useless.
You care about the genocide like for real, for real? Go out in the streets, protest, organize. Call your representatives, bully politicians instead of YouTubers. In an effective way, not and edgy way.
You're being parasocial tbh. Hasan isn't even referencing Ethan here. I'm not even sure what he's said has been edgy. His coverage on it has been some of best you can find from online streamers.
It’s not the same at all saying Black Lives Matter don’t mean white lives doesn’t matter but saying free Palestine from the river to the sea literally mean that Palestine should be from the river to the sea as like kicking all Israel from there there’s is no other valid interpretation of that
It actually does mean ethic cleansing of the Jews
That’s a strawman
If a 1 state solution is enacted and the Palestinian refugees are allowed to return to their homes, it would be an Arab majority state. No ethnic cleansing of Jews needed.
Meanwhile it is israel that wishes ethnic cleansing on the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Netanyahu himself pulled up to the UN with a map of israel from the river to the sea… even the terrorists hamas recognize the 1967 borders.
Don’t make me read the Hamas charter at you
Which hamas charter? The most recent one from 2017? The one that recognizes the UN recognized 1967 borders, which israel doesn’t recognize? The one differentiates between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism?
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders
Oh you mean like how Hamas said after Oct7th that they would launch "a second, a third, a fourth" attack until the country is "annihilated." You mean that group?
Bruh….you think Hamas is going to rule peacefully over all the Jews that have been oppressing them? I don’t think so.
Crazy this fact is downvoted here, wow
Why do you lot even bother with this sub Reddit, just go to the Hasan sub so you can slobber all over his cock, absolute smell of piss and vinegar coming off all of you 👏🏽🤣
I mean you can say that’s what “you” mean when you say it but the genesis of that slogan literally means Israel not being a thing
which is based because it’s a colonial ethnostate
It’s actually a great analogy for the wrong reasons. It’s more like saying “all lives matter” because it’s a dog whistle for jihadists who want to destroy Israel. Meanwhile Jews are trying to tell you it offends them because of what it historically means, and you’re ignoring them. Just ask Hamas what it means to them, they’ll tell you.
I feel it’s more like saying Make America Great Again has nothing to do with white supremacy. Maybe not explicitly but you know how the people using that phrase believe
I mean hasn’t from the river to the sea been used by pan arab rulers invading Israel before? I seem to remember something like that from my Israeli security studies class
I literally got banned from the law school students sub for saying this exact thing. And those are the future lawyers and judges of America.
Here's the problem with this saying. It's common use now is ambiguous enough that "from river to sea" can mean multiple things, does it mean a two state solution? A one state solution? A Palestinian ethno-state solution? Or something else entirely.
But moreso it is used to mean different things by different groups since it was first used circa 1966. Hamas and the Islamic Jihad do mean to eradicate the state of Israel in their pursuit of a free Palestine from river to sea. Many outside of the lands of Palestine/Israel don't mean that, they seek solely to end the injustices the Palestinians face.
There's truth to both arguments which makes this even more challenging to parse.
equal rights and representation
For ummm well...you know the straight male Palestinians. Everyone else....well you might be killed, jailed and/or raped at random but that's actually very progressive from a certain point of view!
From the river to the sea is a straight up dog whistle.
Let’s go hasan
Immagine if an agreement was reached and hamas extremists still continue the attacks. Surprised pikachuface
I have no opinion right or wrong. But it does seem it means eradication of Israel state..
To be fair, the source is also very involved in the matter and, in the context given, might be biased. I believe the problem is we can't read the mind of every individual who says it. I do say it having in mind what Hasan said in this post, but I KNOW people who say it having an antisemitic version of it in mind. Truth resists simplicity.
By that logic should a white person be able to dictate to black people on what All Lives Matter means? By your own logic - black people are “very involved in the matter” and “might be biased” with the slogan in the context given.
Don’t tell the Jews how to define antisemitism. We know it is antisemitic, it’s obvious, and people are dancing around the fact that this slogan point-blank calls for the death of Jews on a massive scale. Stop the intellectual dishonesty.
That’s a strawman
If a 1 state solution is enacted and the Palestinian refugees are allowed to return to their homes, it would be an Arab majority state. No ethnic cleansing of Jews needed.
Meanwhile it is israel that wishes ethnic cleansing on the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Netanyahu himself pulled up to the UN with a map of israel from the river to the sea… even the terrorists hamas recognize the 1967 borders.
If a 1 state solution is enacted and the Palestinian refugees are allowed to return to their homes, it would be an Arab majority state. No ethnic cleansing of Jews needed.
And what do you think happens to the Israelis when terror groups like Hamas are just let in in this proposed plan?
It’s exactly what it means. Correct.
Holy shit! The downvotes I got tell me you psychopaths are perfectly okay with Israel being eradicated. I guess too bad for babies that were born there with no say where they were born. You people are sick fucks. Wishing death on innocent babies is next level, hope you can never sleep at night.
Not the babies.
Just the extermination of Israel.
That’s a strawman
If a 1 state solution is enacted and the Palestinian refugees are allowed to return to their homes, it would be an Arab majority state. No ethnic cleansing of Jews needed.
Meanwhile it is israel that wishes ethnic cleansing on the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Netanyahu himself pulled up to the UN with a map of israel from the river to the sea… even the terrorists hamas recognize the 1967 borders.
Man you are really running defense for Hamas who absolutely wants an ethnic cleansing of jews. The real difference is they don't have the power to do it and Israel does. Both Hamas and Israel are genocidal
I’m not hamas’ spokesperson. And I agree with you, while israel is largely responsible for creating the ideal conditions for an organization like hamas to exist, that doesn’t absolve hamas from their deplorable crimes
Hasan cucks taking over this sub to shit on Ethan 24/7 is insane. That’s why no one likes these fucking terrorist supporters. Hamas are terrorists, end of discussion. Stop supporting this grifting cuck and stop supporting terrorists. Y’all would 100% support the nazis during this time too
I agree free Palestine! Now condemn the terrorists
Free Palestine, Israel is an apartheid state. Condemn Israel.
Yes what Israel does to the Palestinian people is wrong! See how easy that is? It’s insane how mentally handicapped terrorist supporters are. I can’t believe Hassan viewers LOVE TERRORISTS. Insane
cuck
I don’t remember Hasan letting his girlfriend fuck other dudes. Destiny on the other hand…
Also nobody here is supporting Hamas. Stop making scenarios in your head
You like one piece I’m not gonna say anything mean to you.
Also a cuck is someone who gets sexually turned on by having their wife get fucked by other dudes.
Not gonna defend destiny either because he’s not my friend idc just trying to educate you on what a cuck actually is
This is categorically untrue and claiming it is the sole meaning of that phrase shows a complete lack of familiarity with the conflict at best, or naked disingenuousness at worst.
We all know what it means, you saw what would happen if "Palestine" was free on the 7th.
Why not just pick a different phrase? Like it's so easy.
There's so many things you can do to express Palestinian liberation without the genocidal implication.
Oh I know why, it's because it's a dog whistle and the intent and meaning are very purposeful.
Useful idiots.
The phrase doesn't matter the opposition to liberation will just make the next phrase out to be anti semitic because their actions as a state are indefensible
The phrase absolutely matters. That's the point. Context is everything.
Able to call out a cop flashing a WP symbols, but are completely incapable of understanding the subtext of freeing Palestinian from Jews... aka genocide?
These are not hard dots to connect.
The willful ignorance is really starting to surface.
Ok what's a slogan that you would approve of that zionists can't spin into claiming anti semitism?
Free Palestine
He’s being naive, when Hamas chants the same slogan do you think this is what they mean? Their actions and vow to repeat oct 7th attacks say otherwise.
That’s a strawman
If a 1 state solution is enacted and the Palestinian refugees are allowed to return to their homes, it would be an Arab majority state. No ethnic cleansing of Jews needed.
Meanwhile it is israel that wishes ethnic cleansing on the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Netanyahu himself pulled up to the UN with a map of israel from the river to the sea… even the terrorists hamas recognize the 1967 borders.
It’s a strawman to say that different groups are using a vague phrase to promote different ideas so it’s dumb to pretend there is one right way to interpret?
If that slogan is really problematic. You’d be just as upset if not more that a democratically elected head of state of a UN member state publicly shows a map of israel “from the river to the sea” and is famously against forming a palestinian state, and, at most, is okay with giving patches of land to the Palestinians which would be entirely dependent on Israel for survival
When they say they want to throw them into the sea they mean having a fun beach party obviously
It literally means that there should be a state from the Jordanian river to the Mediterranean sea and the eradication of the jewish people there.
That’s a strawman
If a 1 state solution is enacted and the Palestinian refugees are allowed to return to their homes, it would be an Arab majority state. No ethnic cleansing of Jews needed.
Meanwhile it is israel that wishes ethnic cleansing on the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Netanyahu himself pulled up to the UN with a map of israel from the river to the sea… even the terrorists hamas recognize the 1967 borders.
No it doesn’t.
If you are not publicly condemning and disavowing Hamas, then you support Hamas, a terrorist organization.
Condemn Israel, a terrorist state.
What Israel has done to the palestinians is one of the greatest crines of the 20th Century. It is an ethnostate where non Jews are second class.
Hamas is a vicious terrrorist organization that is wholly uninterested in any peace that still leaves Jews in the levant
"From the river to the sea" is clearly a call for genocide the same way "we must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children" is.
The Israeli government has made no good faith attempts at peace since the assassination of PM Rabin.
Any country that has taken in a large number of Palestinians has been rewarded with terrorism, civil war, and assassinations. And that's why their Arab brothers have turned their back on them.
The things that matters most right now is Israel stopping it's air Strikes.
The Palestinian martyrs fund is incredibly fucked up. And Hamas hijacks foreign aid to use for militant activities.
The settlers must be expunged from the west Bank.
The founding of Israeli state in the levant supported by the west was a massive fuck up. But Israel will remain a state in any peace plan rooted in realism
In Germany the saying "from the river to the sea..." is punishable. It calls for the eradication of Israel
That’s a strawman
If a 1 state solution is enacted and the Palestinian refugees are allowed to return to their homes, it would be an Arab majority state. No ethnic cleansing of Jews needed.
Meanwhile it is israel that wishes ethnic cleansing on the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Netanyahu himself pulled up to the UN with a map of israel from the river to the sea… even the terrorists hamas recognize the 1967 borders.
Hasan is reaaaaching with this one. The comparison with black lives matter is wild 😂. Stop redefining, just own it and move on…
Not a reach at all.
The irony being blm burns down cities and Palestine raped and murdered a bunch of women on their little liberation front
I dont think that it was a reply to ethan. Its a talking point in zionist media which is where ethan and hila probably saw it and just totally accepted the definition