Katana snob gatekeeping which way a sword should be displayed.
He's right for all the wrong reasons, talking about respect and tradition and authenticity
When the real reason is facing down it dulls the blade ever so slightly over time as gravity naturally pulls it downward
Yeah, keeping the sword blade side up lets it rest on its spine inside the scabbard.
Dude's right and I actually kinda agree with him. He's just being a butthole about it.
Edit: hilt -> scabbard
True, respect of a culture even from afar and in your own privacy sets a nice standard for interactions
User deleted comment
15d
Well it's an online forum, people advise and correct eachother unwarranted all the time. If I posted a selfie of me walking to r/walking with my shoe lace untied, wouldn't people say something about it? And also, wouldn't I be a bit of a child to say 'huh who gives a shit what I do with my shoes' lol
You’re suspended.
I was gonna say, I saw it and thought "well that is bad for the blade" then read and saw this guy was just being an ass
I just wanted a reason for WHY. Okay cool there'd a spirit in it- why doesn't the spirit like blade down bro. Put on your ghost speak amulet and help me understand
Tradition: the blade is displayed how it is worn. So basically it's just a matter of respect for the culture.
Yeah, he's going on about it from the perspective of "a Katana is clearly the superior blade". Realistically anything that has an edge should be displayed blade up unless it has no edge or isn't going to be used, then edge doesn't matter.
Yeah if it was less weeb I’d maybe be on his side lol.
I love how people talk about how long it takes to forge as evidence of how good the blades are when in reality it takes that long because Japan has shit quality iron with tons of impurities.
The blade is actually extremely fragile and unsuited to anything but attacking unarmored opponents
It's not extremely fragile but it's also not as great as some people make it out to be. They're still capable weapons, but like the Longsword they were a side piece used to show status and for duels. They were the 2nd to last option to use in a life or death battle.
I don't mean the blade will break or anything, but because it relies on a very sharp hardened edge it dulls quickly on armor. Combined with it's relatively light weight it would quickly lose effectiveness.
Medieval European swords in comparison have a blade geometry that relies less on the super sharp edge and was designed to fight more heavily armored combatants. It's just another consequence of the lower quality iron in Japan, they didn't have to design with tougher armor in mind.
From my understanding they weren't even used as primary weapons by samurai.
Very few swords were used as main weapons in the battlefield historically. The sword is in most cases your last weapon, after you've lost your bow/gun and/or spear because in general swords aren't good against armour.
Notable exceptions are greatswords, but they're somewhat more like polearms than swords anyways.
The fine line between a longknife and a shortsword comes into play when you're talking about some eras and weapons worn by non soldiers in civilian life
https://x.com/gunsen_history/status/1685978593262755840 This notion is pretty common but I don't know where it comes from. Japanese swords were historically highly regarded and modern tests show that their metal is as good as any other sword.
They're only suited for fighting unarmored opponents? According to who?
It's a common notion based on metallurgical analysis of the steel. Uneven carbon distribution and a high level of impurities led to a more brittle blade.
Which affects all European swords I've seen studied almost as much and sometimes more. The hardness ranges on the hardened cutting edges of the manchurian railway swords are pretty similar to what I've seen on Euro swords.
I don't know where you're getting your information, but Japanese iron has orders of magnitude more impurities than iron in Europe and the Middle East.
Most of the iron mined in Japan is classified as "pig iron" which has to be refined to a ridiculous degree before it's even remotely useable in anything requiring durability.
Now if you're specifically talking about the Manchurian Railway Swords, that would make sense, because the Iron for those swords came from Russia, not Japan. Edit: Technically from China, but the mines were captured from the Russians in the Russo-Japanese war.
I'll post some more sources later, look through my comments on this post to see a few more I'm basing it on.
Your sources don't seem super reliable as the Japanese generally used bloomery steel from bloomeries for swords, while pig iron comes from blast furnaces. (edit: it has come to my attention that they used both a lot, just as the Europeans did)
Now if you're specifically talking about the Manchurian Railway Swords, that would make sense, because the Iron for those swords came from Russia, not Japan.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SWORDS/comments/1ce1msa/comment/l1kl3y0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button My point still stands, the old traditional blades are also similar to the hardness range of European swords. 37-52HRC, 45-57HRC, 39-60HRC, 32-53HRC, 32-52HRC
Unsuited for facing armored opponents, yet they did all the time?
https://x.com/boukenkyuu/status/1358785986138787846 tons of armored people fighting with katana
https://x.com/gunsen_history/status/1769452159202885965 Stab the face, cut the arms, use half-swording.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZayPN8gX0w&t=0s Stabs and cuts to gaps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnQgajmbEhE&t=14s Stab under throat-guard, slash under arms.
Question just out of curiosity, how would one display a dual edged sword? Like which side gets chosen to be dulled?
Not I historian or anything, but i imagine you would hang it by the hand guard on the hilt if possible
Maybe flat side down? Or secured in a way the hilt is being held with the blade in air. I feel as though when I've seen swords at a museum they've always been laying flat or secured to a wall
Flat on a cushioned display piece or hanging by the crossguard on a wall.
Some may suggest leaving it in the sheath and then resting it on its side but those people are idiots, the blade will still dull like that. Best bet is it keep it our of the sheath and display both.
But they should always be under lock and key in my opinion. I have a couple of Longswords, Axes, a Halberd and a Katana here at home. Besides the Halberd they are all kept in a glass display box that has two locks with two different keys and the room is always locked when I'm not home. I also have other collectible items in there but those are the only ones that can be deadly.
It doesn't matter. Swords dulling due to gravity pushing them into soft wood is a fantasy. For that to happen, friction and movement would be needed, and swords do not move on their own.
The blade orientation does not matter. You could leave it lying edge down for a thousand years and it would not matter. Many stands for katana have them leaning, edge down. https://www.japanese-vintage.org/katana-holder-stand-1900
If it's a display piece then does the slight dulling truly matter? I'm also thinking that depending where it is displayed having the blade down to prevent increased injury if someone or something falls on to it. Obviously where it displayed affects thar part
I'm not a sword collector so I am curious about the art of displaying them that is generally followed in this case
No but even as a display piece you want it in perfect condition usually, especially if you are going to sell it. As for safety, it would be smarter to just keep it inside the hilt more then anything, blade faced upwards to avoid slowly cutting into the hilt. Not a sword collector but huge fan of the genre, but its not uncommon to send a sword to be polished and sharpened when purchased in a bad condition. It's not really because it needs to cut at any point, it's just the novelty of it and the fact that it could
I think instead of hilt you meant sheath, scabbard, or whatever the Japanese call theirs.
Hilt everything below where the blade edge ends.
Oh oops
It’s really a non-issue. Either way you leave it the blade will go dull due to corrosion. Swords take maintenance, there is just this attitude that isn’t rightly deserved around Japanese swords that they’re some how this impossible special item.
The manufacturing of them that is so wildly touted as superior craftsmanship is out of necessity as their iron is horrible. So as it’s being converted into steel and then into a sword the folding is required. If they don’t do this process they can’t make a sword that has any durability. The European weapon smiths of similar times didn’t need this technique as their steel was vastly better. However there is folding even in their swords. The craftsmanship is equally impressive. Japanese swords aren’t particularly sharper than European swords either, they’re both capable of maintaining extremely sharp blades. Their weights are very similar as well.
In the end all this attitude is mostly manufactured mythology and a lot of it from no real base in historical fact. Here is a katana being displayed in The Japanese Sword museum in Japan. https://www.japan-experience.com/sites/default/files/images/content_images/j_sword_mus_1.jpg
https://x.com/gunsen_history/status/1685978593262755840
Their manucfacturing and the materials they used were very similar to Chinese and even European methods http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/Macedonia.html (this knife has a hamon)
http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/chinesesword3.html (Chinese blade, bloom steel, hada, hamon etc. Very similar techniques were used)
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-981-19-2037-0_6 (This study shows that even early-modern European swords sometimes used forging techniques similar to Japanese ones)
Isn’t the pretentious guy arguing against displaying it blade up? The blue guy was giving shit to the guy in white and the guy in yellow saying that the swords should be flipped
Yeah exactly. The lack of reading comprehension in this thread (top comment with 800 upvotes misunderstanding the exchange altogether) is pretty scary tbh.
Not really. Just laying still there won’t really do anything to the blade. It is traditional to display it with the blade facing up though.
That's not true, not hard to find japanese swords that are displayed blade down by museums. They're displayed in the same orientation they're traditionally worn.
Yep, the person is 100% right about displaying blade up, but 100% wrong in their way of doing it. If they had been as articulate and KIND about why the blade should face up not down most people would listen to reason and flip it. But I bet OP keeps it blade down out of spite and resentment for that ass hat.
I thought that was implied…
But the blade in the picture IS facing down. Why would the guy in blue insult the guy in white if blade-side-down (which the guy in white was complaining about) was actually wrong?
yeah
edge facing down is a violation.
if it is left or right, it is really a matter of esthetic.
He's right but just doesn't know why? The blade shouldn't touch anything that isn't it's sheath or designed for it to be sat on, it'll dull slowly.
Edit: only partially correct, according to comment it's also to do with the direction the blade sits as its worn.
According to the national museum on Tokyo it has more to do with the it's drawn than the edge and it's sharpness. There's a variation (the name escapes me) of the katana (an infantry sword) which is used by cavalry and it is displayed with the blade down.
The Tachi is displayed blade down because that's how it is worn
Exactly same way with the katana and the nodachi
No-datchi mabye?
Yes you're right that's it ^
Because they had to swing downwards they wore it with edge down therefore the display.
According to the national museum on Tokyo it has more to do with the it's drawn than the edge and it's sharpness. There's a variation (the name escapes me) of the katana (an infantry sword) which is used by cavalry and it is displayed with the blade down.
ōdachi
Ye, i was bout to say there is a real reason
that looks more like a tachi by the fittings- which is properly displayed blade down, so he's wrong there anyway.
I don't know anything about katanas and even less about Tachi blades but damn I am I impressed with both your eye and your knowledge on the subject. Are you a collector?
Fun fact katanas are kinda mid tier medieval weapons tbh.
Almost all of the stuff about them being so crazy meticulous is really them having to work the metal like crazy because Japan's natural iron ore was trash quality so they had to work and refine it to make something half decent.
Like, they are cool, but people have a hard-on for them based on mostly fantasy and propaganda.
The Japanese did much more warfare with bows and pole arms. Katanas are sick but definitely not practical for battle.
Pretty much everyone did more warfare with pole arms than swords of any type because they were just generally cheaper and more useful in most situations
Well they did their best warfare with pole arms. From what I understand, the expendable people might just be given swords because they were cheaper and easier to make of your plan was to just rush the enemy.
That reasoning is why the spear was the premier foot soldier weapon until modern times. Cheap, sharp, deadly, expertise not necessary.
A dirty farmer that knows how to use a pitchfork knows how to use a spear
Swords weren't cheaper and easier to make than pole arms tho. No one is arming their fodder with swords.
A sword was definitely not cheaper. Even a pretty short arming sword would be enough for two or even three spear-heads on any kind of straight wooden pole.
And proper training for it is a matter of a few weeks at most.
They are just like European swords. Basic jack of all trades and easy to carry in self defence. Just like the military combat knives
Isnt it the same with europe tbf? Bows did require a ton of training and so did swords so not evwryone was a sword wielding badass. Most used poles and halberds which required days to weeks of training and was more effective with untrained troops than untrained swordsmen
Yeah a large part of warfare was done with bows but like you said the downside is you gotta literally train people to be archers from childhood. It’s fairly easy on the other hand to train some random farmer to use a long stick with a pointy end. For much of history everywhere the average foot soldier was probably armed with some kind of spear or pole arm, with maybe a short sword or axe as a secondary weapon.
You don't need to train your entire life to be at least competent at archery. Very strong bows existed of course, but not every bow had a monstrous draw weight.
What do you do when you run out of ammunition? Or you get charged by infantry? Your enemy has control of your spear or has passed by the point? Katana are battlefield weapons and saw regular use, just because they weren't the first one that you used doesn't mean that they weren't practical. https://x.com/boukenkyuu/status/1358785986138787846
You could also just use a big sword as a main weapon. https://x.com/harima_mekkai/status/1764630982639112584
It's like saying daggers aren't battlefield weapons. Obviously when the situation called for it they were great weapons (grappling). https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/%E3%80%8C%E5%85%AD%E6%B3%A2%E7%BE%85%E5%90%88%E6%88%A6%E3%80%8D_%E5%B9%B3%E6%B2%BB%E7%89%A9%E8%AA%9E%E7%B5%B5%E5%B7%BB_%E6%96%AD%E7%B0%A1-Battle_at_Rokuhara%2C_from_The_Tale_of_the_Heiji_Rebellion_%28Heiji_monogatari%29_MET_DP361153.jpg
The fact they even exist in the first place and how they did it with the materials they had available is a serious feat of ingenuity. They polished that turd and made it fucking sparkle.
...That being said, they were still secondary weapons, because like the rest of the world, they figured out it was safer to kill the other guy from a distance.
they polished that turd and made it fucking sparkle
Exactly! Like, with what they had, they worked wonders!
Also almost all killing was done with spears and bows! So...
Yep, the only reason a samurai would ever use his sword is if he lost his bow/arrow, lost his spear and lost his horse.
Swords are literally the worst way to fight battles.
Even then I imagine a good club or bludgeon with sharp spikes along it would be a better backup weapon.
No it wouldn't be. Maces are massively over-hyped, most soldiers in the middle ages into the early modern period carried a blade as a backup weapon (not saying that it didn't happen, this is talking generally). Cutting someone open or stabbing through someone is simply way more deadly than bashing their armor with a one handed bludgeon. That's why buhurt guys can beat the shit out of each other with maces, axes and overweight falchions and have nobody die. Other than that, swords are faster and have more reach which is especially important if you do not have a shield
Contrary to popular belief, maces were sometimes secondary weapons to swords. Italian cavalry in the 15th century, for example, are said to have relied on their estoc before their maces.
Pollaxes, kanabo, large two handed maces etc. are all very effective but they're not backup weapons.
No. Miyamoto Musashi said about the effective ranges of weapons: "There is a time and place for use of weapons. The best use of the companion sword is in a confined space, or when you are engaged closely with an opponent. The long sword can be used effectively in all situations.
The halberd is inferior to the spear on the battlefield. With the spear you can take the initiative; the halberd is defensive. In the hands of one of two men of equal ability, the spear gives a little extra strength. Spear and halberd both have their uses, but neither is very beneficial in confined spaces. They cannot be used for taking a prisoner. They are essentially weapons for the field."
https://x.com/boukenkyuu/status/1358785986138787846 Many drawn swords.
You could just use a big sword as a main weapon. https://x.com/harima_mekkai/status/1764630982639112584
https://markussesko.com/2013/05/03/fighting-with-the-odachi/
It's like saying daggers aren't battlefield weapons. Obviously when the situation called for it they were great weapons (grappling). https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/%E3%80%8C%E5%85%AD%E6%B3%A2%E7%BE%85%E5%90%88%E6%88%A6%E3%80%8D_%E5%B9%B3%E6%B2%BB%E7%89%A9%E8%AA%9E%E7%B5%B5%E5%B7%BB_%E6%96%AD%E7%B0%A1-Battle_at_Rokuhara%2C_from_The_Tale_of_the_Heiji_Rebellion_%28Heiji_monogatari%29_MET_DP361153.jpg Using your sword or dagger doesn't mean that shit has gone horribly wrong. In this case, the rider has caught up to his enemy and grabs his helmet to stab his neck or face. This is a case in which the dagger is better than any other weapon and he has won by using the more advantageous weapon.
https://x.com/C4nn0n_F0dd3r/status/1771037230661767400 Getting past the point of the spear will make a shorter weapon advantageous.
Swords were not the worst possible way to fight battles. Rodeleros, samurai, landsknecht, the Chinese etc. all did.
It's not that amazing. We only think it is because Japanese swordsmithing, being one of the only surviving living traditions of it's kind, is a unique window into pre-modern sword-smithing. It is quite similar to how most of medieval world would make swords.
https://x.com/gunsen_history/status/1685978593262755840
Their manucfacturing and the materials they used were very similar to Chinese and even European methods
http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/Macedonia.html
(this knife has a hamon and two-block blade construction, just like many Japanese swords)
http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/chinesesword3.html (Chinese blade, bloom steel, hada, hamon etc. Very similar techniques were used)
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-981-19-2037-0_6
(This study shows that even early-modern European swords sometimes used forging techniques similar to Japanese ones)
They are also mainly made for cutting. Aka, chopping the head off a defeated enemy to claim a reward. They are terrible at stabbing, which makes it hard to exploit small gaps in armour
Add in the brittle nature of the katana. Slashing an armored opponent’s just gonna shatter the blade.
Not necessarily if you hit something with the sharpened edge. The swords are actually extremely strong when it comes to those kinds of impacts because of the way they are smithed. Provided they are well-made, of course. The problem is when it gets hit or hits something on any other edge, it is prone to breaking.
Katana aren't wonder-weapons, but aren't slouches either. A European-style sword will never win in a slicing contest. The edges of katana also wear less quickly. So more brittle and weaker in some places, but stronger and sturdier in other places.
If a katana is to shatter, it's more likely from a crack starting in the edge. On the flat side, it will probably just bend, a large amount of bending is needed to actually snap the blade. https://youtu.be/rTskoJTvvQc?list=TLPQMDIwNjIwMjTrTJSdR_OKhg&t=1431
Katana don't necessarily have harder edges than European swords either, if you compare them to late medieval and renaissance blades. http://myarmoury.com/feature_bladehardness.html Compared to earlier medieval ones, they are quite hard, but a 30 HRC edge is not a benefit lol.
Katana don't necessarily have harder edges than European swords, if you compare them to late medieval and renaissance blades. http://myarmoury.com/feature_bladehardness.html Compared to earlier medieval ones, they are quite hard, but a 30 HRC edge is not a benefit lol (the best reproductions today have 50-55 HRC throughout the entire blade.)
http://ohmura-study.net/998.html (at the bottom, there is a chart with hardness ranges of a few Japanese swords. 37-52HRC, 45-57HRC, 39-60HRC, 32-53HRC, 32-52HRC)
https://x.com/gunsen_history/status/1685978593262755840
https://youtu.be/rTskoJTvvQc This sword is very brutally tested, but doesn't shatter when smashing into hard objects.
They stab fine. https://x.com/boukenkyuu/status/1358785986138787846 Half swording can be used against armor.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBZ9Y1KSkos&t=3s]
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBZ9Y1KSkos&t=3s) (this is not super scientific but considering that even the shamshir did well and that Japanese martial arts have plenty of thrusting, I'm comfortable saying that this disprover your *point*)
https://youtu.be/XGoZeL91P_8?si=7uNz7H-YKsm_H3mr more half swording
It's not impossible, but a straight sword is just easier to be precise with than a curved one, simply by the shape of it. The video of the comparison also just stabs them into a big block of gel, rather than trying to punch through a tiny gap in a piece of armour
Stabbing with a lightly curved sword and a straight sword is pretty similar in my opinion, if you half-sword there's barely any difference.
edit: also, some katana are almost straight or completely straight
https://x.com/gunsen_history/status/1769452159202885965 Stab the face, cut the arms, use half-swording.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZayPN8gX0w&t=0s Stabs and cuts to gaps.
They were definitely used in battles. It was clearly considered important equipment as even poorer soldiers would have one.
Miyamoto Musashi said about the effective ranges of weapons: "There is a time and place for use of weapons. The best use of the companion sword is in a confined space, or when you are engaged closely with an opponent. The long sword can be used effectively in all situations.
The halberd is inferior to the spear on the battlefield. With the spear you can take the initiative; the halberd is defensive. In the hands of one of two men of equal ability, the spear gives a little extra strength. Spear and halberd both have their uses, but neither is very beneficial in confined spaces. They cannot be used for taking a prisoner. They are essentially weapons for the field."
https://x.com/boukenkyuu/status/1358785986138787846 Many drawn swords.
Long swords were even used as main weapons.
https://markussesko.com/2013/05/03/fighting-with-the-odachi/
It's like saying daggers aren't battlefield weapons. Obviously when the situation called for it they were great weapons (grappling). https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/%E3%80%8C%E5%85%AD%E6%B3%A2%E7%BE%85%E5%90%88%E6%88%A6%E3%80%8D_%E5%B9%B3%E6%B2%BB%E7%89%A9%E8%AA%9E%E7%B5%B5%E5%B7%BB_%E6%96%AD%E7%B0%A1-Battle_at_Rokuhara%2C_from_The_Tale_of_the_Heiji_Rebellion_%28Heiji_monogatari%29_MET_DP361153.jpg In this case, the rider has caught up to his enemy and grabs his helmet to stab his neck or face. This is a case in which the dagger is better than any other weapon and he has won by using the more advantageous weapon.
https://x.com/C4nn0n_F0dd3r/status/1771037230661767400 Getting past the point of the spear will make a shorter weapon advantageous.
You also have to consider that soldiers who relied on bows or guns would often be forced to fight in melee combat as well, in which case the sword will be their primary weapon.
I mean, the fact that they turned a crappy material into something that is middle-tier in effectiveness through sheer determination, skill, and perseverance is really cool. Makes it more special to me that it was crafted by human hands while pouring their heart out on it, than a machine pumping out a normal sword using good material.
Exactly! Spears and bows, baby!
Almost all of the stuff about them being so crazy meticulous is really them having to work the metal like crazy because Japan's natural iron ore was trash quality so they had to work and refine it to make something half decent.
Not really true. Japan's steel was not uniquely bad. Even if they were stuck with shit steel they would still have access to Chinese steel and later on, European steel. https://x.com/gunsen_history/status/1685978593262755840
There is obviously tradition and etiquette in display of swords, particularly Japanese swords. But there's no need to be a dick about it.
Swords are meant to be displayed in the way they would be worn, and the signature on the blade would be facing out accordingly.
A tachi is an older style which is generally longer and was primarily used as a cavalry sword, it is traditionally worn blade down. A katana is more of an infantry sword, generally slightly shorter and worn blade up. Apparently the orientation makes it better for horseback or infantry, dulling of the blade shouldn't be much of an issue with a hardened steel edge and a wooden saya but no matter the reason that's the etiquette.
As with all historical hand crafted weapons there is very little "official" standardised construction, more what was typical in an era as well as bleed over. Tachi were retrofitted in a katana style and blades were not a standardised length.
The signature on the blade is a good indicator of what it was originally made as. If when held ready it was on the right of the spine it was intended as a tachi to be worn blade down, if the left, a katana with the blade up.
The other notable thing about sword display is which side the handle is. Traditionally in times of peace you would display them with the handle on the left, this would display the signature as well as show that the blade isn't ready to be used. In times of conflict or war it would be displayed handle to the right making it easier to be picked up and put into use quickly.
The katana was worn blade up? Wouldn't that make unsheathing harder/clumsier (because of the curve)?
Here's an example of how to draw a katana. Honestly it makes sense to me to have it blade down but I'm just a nerd who finds weapons interesting not a practical user.
It may be that they were concerned with dulling the blade but because you only had one hand while mounted you needed it blade down to draw at all. Only when you're infantry and can use two hands does it work.
Or maybe it's more of just a cultural tradition for whatever reason. You have to remember how long the tachi and katana were present in Japanese culture. Tachi were first produced somewhere around the year 800, katana more popular somewhere around the 1400 to 1500s and then samurai were abolished and carrying swords made illegal only in 1868. Even then katanas were used in the military, and issued to officers in ww2.
It's almost impossible to understate the significance of the sword in Japanese culture, there's religious implications in Shinto, art, mythology, katana as a badge of office and authority, as well as a weapon of war that elevates it in the general zeitgeist into something more than the half decent slashing sword against unarmoured people made from awful ore that it is.
I suspect there's a significant mix of practical reasons, superstition and tradition that rolls in together to end up with "that's just how it's done".
It's definitely for practical reasons. It's about how the sword sits on the body, and it's about unsheathing. As katana often sit quite high it becomes pretty natural to unsheathe that way. It's not unique to Japan either, shashka were worn edge up as well.
It's almost impossible to understate the significance of the sword in Japanese culture, there's religious implications in Shinto, art, mythology, katana as a badge of office and authority, as well as a weapon of war that elevates it in the general zeitgeist into something more than the half decent slashing sword against unarmoured people made from awful ore that it is.
This part is unironically more mythological than actual sword mythology in Japan. Mainly a status symbol, only a weapon against unarmored opponents, awful metal etc. is all just false.
edit: the dulling thing has nothing to do with the blade orientation. Pre-Edo there were several ways people wore their swords and it seemed to come down to personal preference https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:680/1*p1hB0NbWkURKNHvfkmJcag.jpeg
To be fair the banning of guns in Japan is why they had swords for so long. We still have officers swords today for tradition mainly.
Even watching that video it still seems very unnatural and awkward. I have to imagine there were guys who didn't care about "tradition" and held and carried it the easier way.
How long your phone bro
Okay, so people here are wrong - no, it nas nothing to do with dulling the blade, it's just a traditional thing. Which is very important for a ceremonial weapon, and Japanese swords were exactly that.
But also - I'm not an expert, but this looks like a tachi, not a katana. And tachi is supposed to be displayed blade down, so this is correct.
It's more to do with display reasons. The more attractive side of the mountings will usually be on the side with the sword's signature. This matters somewhat but not a lot, some schools of swordmaking signed tachi side on everything and some katana stands (the vertical type) displays the sword edge down anyways.
https://www.japanese-vintage.org/katana-holder-stand-1900
Japanese swords aren't especially ceremonial, even normal footsoldiers would have swords. Also, people would wear swords kinda how they wanted back in the day.
“May you tell me what I’m wrong about?” is such a wildly garbage sentence, dude needs to go to school 🤦♂️
It’s pure laziness and today’s generation to take short cuts and no bother with tradition
- Guy who doesn’t bother with the tradition of the language he speaks every day… also his censorship of “c*unts” has me crying
Man says “todays generation” like he was an actual samurai living back then
The emotional investment only rises to this level when the stakes are infinitesimally small. Carry on, valiant turd-polishers!
katanas and weeboos...name a more toxic relationship
isnt a weeaboo somebody who has a hard on for all things korean, not japanese?
That's a Koreaboo
Weeaboo is for Japan, the phrase I've heard for Korean is Koreaboo. That said I'm sure weeaboo and weeb have been used for any and all east Asian culture fanatics in the past.
Let’s not forget Celtaboos who think Braveheart is historically accurate.
Bagpipes and kilts kick ass, though, so I’ll still carry the title.
I like the term Kleeb for Klingon fantatics.
I also use sweaboo for those viking nerds
Oh man that's a new one for me. Insert bridge battle joke here xD
And then, flip side, westaboos.
"Real katana, aka Nihonto Shinken" is such a stupid sentence.
It's like saying "real spanish cars, aka coches reales de españa".
It only sounds cool because it's Japanese.
Honestly, I like anime and love japan, but weebs are an absolute scourge.
It interests me that he censored the word cunts like this: “c*unts”. Isn’t the asterisk normally supposed to replace a missing letter in that sort of censorship? Eg f * c k. So is there a letter missing here? Did he mean chunts? Counts? Crunts?
I find it funny how he says the sword isn't worth respect because it's cheap and at the same time saying the owner is not respecting it properly
I can't tell which neckbeard was making better points
Going on about japanese craftsmanship, they weren't purposefully meticulous, and its not some superior process. They just had shitty iron ore that needed more work to make it as strong as steel should be.
I mean he's not wrong, the tradition is probably something that has grown for the actual reason.
And yeah, it's an ancient relic, of course you should have serious respect for it just like any ancient relic. Sharpening a blade is also a process that removes material from the steel itself so it's no wonder you don't want it dulled.
Tell us how you display your anime Funko Pops next.
Well they all have a soul imbued in them by both the shokunin 職人 (or craftsman) as well as the Anime no kyarakutā アニメのキャラクター (main character) they are representing. Failure to point them in the right direction is kind of a big faux pas in Japan.
So, facing out on the shelf then?
I... Would have assumed that resting the sharp edge on the stand would have damaged it or something, and that's why they're often displayed edge upwards.
Nah, plenty of swords in Japanese museums are displayed resting on their blades. Assuming they're on a cloth or soft wood it's a non-issue.
That's a cool dagger
Is there a sub for comment which are incorrectly correct?
Well yes, but actually no.
I can just hear them sucking the Cheeto dust off their fingers.
This is weird because he is correct, but about the wrong thing. The ornamentation on the saya (scabbard) means that this sword is a "Tachi" which are displayed with the blade facing down, which can be seen with the Dōjigiri However the sword is also displayed with the handle on the right side which is normally only done during times of war and can be considered disrespectful to guests who might see it.
I've been told it matters if it faces left or right too, as keeping the handle to the right is seen as aggressive whereas keeping the handle to the left is seen as non aggressive.
Swords were worn with the edge up in battle, If only to aid in how they were drawn out. If the blade was down you have to draw it away or up and turn it over. This left a critical opening. Blade up, it could be drawn straight out and in front of you, blade towards the opponent.
Display reasons were to preserve the edge.
Someone pulled this on a post of mine with my corgi and a 30$ mall katana
Yeah so he is right (as stated before for the wrong reasons) and this isnt even gatekeeping. Is he saying that someone is not a real collector? Is he trying to prevent people from owning them?
Fucking christ people, this isnt the spot to dump random reddit disagreements, its for gatekeeping.
It should be totally flipped, blade side up, grip to the left. This is done to keep the blade sharp, but also because all Samurai were made to be right handed, and keeping the sword with the grip to the right indicates to your guest that you're ready and willing to kill them with the sword, so this was only done in times of war when one may need the quickly grab their weapon. But this guy's being a turd and needs to chill.
The blade can not dull from gravity alone. It needs friction. It's also worth noting that people did wear the katana upside down and tachi are always worn edge down. As the sword in the post has hangers it would be worn edge down.
https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:680/1*p1hB0NbWkURKNHvfkmJcag.jpeg (This was a common way to wear swords in the 16th century. Note that both the wakizashi and katana are edge down.)
Redditors when japan is mentioned
I get that it's a display, but if it was a real sword that I defend myself with I would want the handle to be on the side of my dominant hand, no?
It matters because reason/j Now for /s it needs to be faced up because if the blade is faced down not only can it damage the blade it can also make it more dull. Same reason why it faces up when on your hip
Because of guys like that, I want to see Whistlin Diesel buy a very sought-after katana only to absolutely destroy it.
traditional katana etiquette isnt gatekeeping. Its etiquette
What a pointless argument.
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