High performance sports cars should be banned on public roads

Question/Discussion

It’s bad enough that urban design requires people to operate regular cars on a daily basis, let alone sports vehicles.

Sale and advertisement of these cars enables and inspires deadly driving. It also encourages fuckwits to blast my ears with their exhaust and poison the air with tyre smoke.

I used to be a car enthusiast (but moved away from it for reasons unrelated to this subreddit) and even I’d scratch my head thinking “what’s the point if I can’t drive fast?”

“But I’m ‘in control’ of my car”. Maybe, but unless you’re on a closed course—be it a race track or sanctioned touge—you’re putting others at risk. This isn’t Initial D. Moreover, think of all the dickheads who can’t control their car.

The only cars on the road should be those with the minimum power necessary to accelerate and maintain the speed limit. Sports cars are for sports, not for getting from A to B.

Agree/Disagree? What are your thoughts?

in fuckcarsby uhhthiswilldocities aren’t loud, cars are loud

350

89%

7d

7d

BrevilleMicrowave

51

7d

Not to mention the noise they make. I frequently hear hooligans with fart cans strapped to their cars speeding past.

These modifications are illegal in my country but it never gets enforced.

IMO they should make noise level part of WOF. If your car is loud enough to damage the hearing of everyone in its presence it should be banned from the streets.

22

7d

those fart can equipped abominations should be crushed with the owner forced to watch

16

7d

Not to mention the noise they make.

And it is like a shitty thing, noise in engineering means wasted energy or damaged parts. I always say when I'm walking with someone and hear that loud noise "oh, wow, it sounds too fast! Look at that speed! Faster than the sound" all with the car going like at 30km/h and accelerating like shit.

BrevilleMicrowave

13

7d

I like to say "I've never seen so much noise result in so little speed"

6

7d

"look, they're hauling little to no ass!"

Signal_Tomorrow_2138

35

7d

You're always in control until suddenly you're not.

OP

12

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

People are over-confident too, I’ve seen it.

98

7d

Absolutely. I would even go so far as to ask for speed governors so no one can go faster than the higher limit.

NotTooDistantFuture

25

7d

People keep pitching GPS linked ones and I think a good start is to just hard limit all street legal vehicles to something like 85mph.

2

7d

Why would the limit be that much higher than the limit on 99.9% of public roads?

NotTooDistantFuture

6

7d

To get the law passed.

1

7d

For passing and to ensure there's enough acceleration to maintain sufficient safety, I'd imagine - the car can be slow, but it should still react quickly to driver input.

OP

1

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

Part of me thinks why not design slower engines in accordance with vehicle weight, but that might create efficiency issues and we’re switching to EVs anyway.

HardCoverTurnedSoft

5

Bollard gang

7d

Unfortunately, EVs are not the future. They are far more detrimental to the environment and pedestrian safety than normal ICE cars.

Slower engines are not the solution either.

Speed governors, parking pricing increases, and gasoline prices for private vehicles need to go up tremendously, and road design needs to be given back to the people.

That is the only way to cure car dependency.

We don't need a different type of car, we need less of them.

OP

9

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

I don’t know that they’re more detrimental. I agree that they shouldn’t be the future but unfortunately I think they’re going to be part of the transition.

Otherwise I agree wholeheartedly. Climate Town podcast has three episodes on this that are worth a look.

HardCoverTurnedSoft

5

Bollard gang

7d

All my homies fuck with climate town podcast. Gotta be one of my favorite genders. 🔥

2

7d

I think the issue is that they’re silent compared to usual cars. It’s much harder to notice a car coming along since you can’t hear many of them

4

7d

They are far more detrimental to the environment and pedestrian safety than normal ICE cars.

Only if you crash them before you put ~200k kms on them! I agree that eradicating car dependency is crucial, but cars themselves will never be completely redundant because some shit be far away. And that's fine, because we will need a decentralized energy storage system to buffer the volatility of renewable energy generation.

HardCoverTurnedSoft

1

Bollard gang

6d

I agree, some shit really do be far away. Just like some people want rail to connect far away places, we should always have a robust and working highway system for people to exercise their driving privleges.

2

6d

I agree no car is the solution but EVs are simply not worse for the environment full stop, it really highly depends where you get your power. If your area is mostly renewable energy mix then whatever impact creating the car has is quickly overcome by the fact it has no tailpipe emissions. It’s nowhere near a silver bullet (a silver bullet train would be!) but it’s 100% better for the environment to have an equal EV replace an equivalent ICE, unless your energy grid is like 50+% coal.

0

7d

Absolutely!

10

Bollard gang

7d

The EU are planning this sort of thing already:

https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/european-road-safety-observatory/statistics-and-analysis-archive/esafety/intelligent-speed-adaptation-isa_en

Tl:dr - cameras in your car’s bumper or similar read speed signs and set a speed limiter to that figure. It can be overrriden or temporarily disabled by accelerating hard but the system will reset to ‘on’ next time you start the car.

OP

2

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

That seems interesting but doesn’t the acceleration feature defeat it entirely?

I also question privacy issues but as long as it doesn’t record audio or catch reflections it might be fine—or worth the risk.

5

7d

I can understand having an override. For example, there were people killed by a mudslide around here a few years ago. Not that driving faster would have saved them but might have others. However, having it only reset when you next start the car seems pointless. Either have a timed reset or it resets the next time is sees a speed sign. Make it annoying to go faster.

3

Bollard gang

7d

I suppose they’re thinking it’s better to have an override in case you need it.

It doesn’t sound too far different to systems already on some cars now, I’ve seen that sort of thing on a Hyundai here in the U.K. within the last decade.

1

Commie Commuter

7d

I am extremely doubtful about these systems, having the driver fight the car is more dangerous than just letting them go over the limit in most scenarios. Having better urban design that lowers the speed of drivers and protects others from potential incidents is a more universal and reliable choice.

The camera in the more expensive cars are not reliable enough in anything that isn't perfect conditions, hell I would have had an incident relying on the car's sensor suite because a car merged from a onramp that put the merging car above the sensor's sight.

The automatic emergency braking thing is also the same problems and has had serious issues with false positives slamming the brakes on at nothing. Ironically enough causing incidents that wouldn't have otherwise happened.

OP

19

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

If something like this is workable then I agree. There’s no reason cars need to go beyond the limit.

11

7d

Cars are just a bunch of rolling computers. You can code any limit into them you want. In Germany most cars won’t go faster than 250 km/h (156 mph). We don’t have an upper speed limit obviously but I wouldn’t mind limiting all cars to 180. Would make left lane cruising much more relaxed. Now if you’re at 180 in the left lane sooner or later you’ll have someone coming up with 230 and tailgating you even if there no room to move over. Just ordered an ID4 that is capped at 180. with EVs the problem will go away sooner or later. People are much more aware of the increased range at lower speeds.

OP

11

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

If that’s the case then yeah, 180km/h limit all cars. I’d argue that’s too fast, 130km/h limit.

-3

7d

Im in favor of a general limit too. But I wouldn’t go down to 130. Even 160 would be a huge improvement to our current situation. I mostly travel with cruise control set to 140-160 depending on traffic. German autobahn is generally very safe.

6

7d

I agree with OP in Aus the fastest speed limit I've seen is 120. I would not trust the reaction speed of a tired highway driver at 130 let alone 160.

1

7d

Tired people shouldn’t be driving at all. No matter at what speed limit.

As I said: our crash statistics are relatively good. Better than many countries with low speed limits too. And most crashes don’t happen on the autobahn but on smaller roads.

4

7d

Highway driving is monotonous, most people on the highway are not in an alert state.

2

7d

The statistics are what they are.

Numbers are pretty low in Germany overall:

https://images.app.goo.gl/Jj2bmAE9wju8tTGd7

Slightly lower than Australia even with your lower limits: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

And of those crash numbers in Germany the vast majority happens away from the autobahn.

2

7d

I am talking about phyisics, energy and reaction time. Going an extra 30kph is not worth it.

Continue thread...

3

7d

At speeds over 130 fuel consumption significantly increases though, leading to more pollution.

1

7d

I agree. I voted for a party that wants to implement it in the last election. But other parties campaigned against it so it didn’t happen. So I’m thinking a compromise may have gone better.

OP

2

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

I think it’s cause I’m used to travelling at 100km/h speed limits. Max 110. Other than that I’ve been in a car at 200+ which is ridiculous lol so 160 seemed too high.

I’ll have to do some research on the auto-bahn. I agree 160 would be an improvement.

TealSwinglineStapler

2

7d

They work on electric kick scooters, so they should work on cars.

2

Not Dutch, just living here

6d

"BuT wHaT iF i HaVe To TaKeMy WiFe To ThE hOsPiTaL?!?!?!?!"

Fuck you, call an ambulance. Maybe there will be available ones if they don't have to spend most of their time scraping speeding victims off of various surfaces.

staplesuponstaples

4

7d

There exist edge cases or possible glitches with a physical speed cap.

A far better solution is to simply have the car report speeding or reckless driving to the authorities. Depending on the severity, fines or license revoked.

5

7d

Preventing is always better than punishment in the case of a danger to society. People are fucking dying in the streets every day, no nonsense.

1

7d

Looks like I’d be hanging onto my old car for a while longer in that case. I’m not comfortable driving something that actively transmits my whereabouts info.

User deleted comment

7d

JasonGMMitchell

2

Commie Commuter

7d

I guess we shouldn't sell bleach and other chemicals in stores because it can easily be made into mustard gas and chlorine gas.

3

7d

I have a speed limiter on my e-bike for my safety. It's fine for me, its not ridiculous to expect that same level of safety from 2 ton metal box.

Think outside the box. People are fucking dying here.

15

7d

Acceleration and top speed governors should be mandatory for vehicles manufactured for operation on public streets. Normalizing these attributes will go a long way to add predictability to the streets. I think predictability increases safety.

5

Bollard gang

7d

Not sure how true this is but Nissan apparently programmed the R35 GTR so that the speed limiter only deactivated in Japan if the car was at a known racetrack, per the GPS system.

6

Orange pilled

7d

If you think about it, it's strange that e bikes, pedelcs and mopeds are limited on speed and 2000kg vehicles not

2

🚲 + 🚗

7d

Because we only care about occupant safety. Ebikes going fast are dangerous to their riders, so we care. Trucks going fast are dangerous to others, so we don't.

1

🚲 + 🚗

7d

Because we only care about occupant safety. Ebikes going fast are dangerous to their riders, so we care. Trucks going fast are dangerous to others, so we don't.

6

7d

Disagree, I am a car enthusiast. Punish the people who drive like idiots, don’t make the rest of us put up with such drivel. I’ve been driving for a long time and have never had a single speeding ticket. I drive a turbocharged car with a very high top speed as well. But I drive it safely because I’m not a moron.

I tend to support urbanist policies so that there are fewer people driving and more people in the city. I want people to have the best lives possible, but I also don’t like being in cities or around people a whole lot. I prefer to live rurally and I like driving in the countryside. But things like trains and buses work very well in cities.

hismuddawasamudda

9

7d

This includes bikes. They can't help themselves. Wannabe speed racers.

3

7d

Im not seeing the issues with sport bikes on the road? They aren’t really that much more dangerous and they certainly aren’t more polluting than any old bike.

staplesuponstaples

5

7d

They are loud as fuck. It does depend on the model, but many of them are completely incompatible with urban life.

Even mopeds are louder than cars in an urban setting, so while they are far more compact and less polluting, it's still a hazard to people's health.

In all honesty, I feel like they get far more sympathy than they deserve. Motorcyclists know exactly what kind of situation they're getting into (considering the only reason you'd own one in the US is because you're a thrill seeker), so when they turn into a pavement crayon when going 70 on a highway it really feels like a "play stupid games" moment.

Maybe I sound like a sociopath, but honestly I don't see them having a practical purpose for transportation. For fun? For sport? Sure. To get around? A ticking time bomb.

6

Commie Commuter

7d

One of my most terrifying experiences on a bicycle was a motorcyclist deciding to speed past me.

I went from cycling as normal to feeling something whizz past me, inches away, blasting me with a giant wall of noise and wind with zero warning.

I of course then overtook the entitled prick less than a minute later at the lights.

Car drivers get to ignore these wankers but if you're not in a car they are an absolute menace and so absolutely should be banned.

hismuddawasamudda

6

7d

Motorbike hoons are noisy and dangerous.

8

7d

Oh I thought you meant bikes like in bicycles. Yea fuck the noisy bikes they annoy the shit out of me.

JasonGMMitchell

7

Commie Commuter

7d

R/fuckcars 'except sports cars, I like sports cars and plus surely it's a road design issue that made those people spin out and no one would ever speed ever ever ever if we put trees near the road'

Y'all can make roads as hostile to drivers as possible, they will still fucking speed and they will still fucking kill. We need speed governors that limit all vehicles on the road to the legal maximum in a country (or in Germany's case whatever arbitrary number they choose that'll definitely be far above the average autobahn speed), we need to ban high acceleration cars that lose control easily from ever being driven on public roads, and we need more stringent licensing requirements, along with better road design.

It's frankly embarrassing how many fucking excuses people have for needlessly dangerous cars and drivers.

OP

0

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

That’s predominately my issue, high powered cars.

I’ve had a few interesting push backs. Namely that hooning can occur in low powered cars. I’d argue there’s a difference between the cars in the examples I linked (where the wheels easily spin and loose control) and that of a regular sedan.

Someone also noted that we risk death via planes and that HP cars are equivalent. I’d argue that someones enjoyment doesn’t outweigh my life, they can drive a normal car and pick a different thrill. With that said, I think it’s still worth considering. Should we accept the death/disability of X amount of people, for the enjoyment of Y amount of people?

There might be other points. I plan to re-read comments and make note.

4

7d

All this said, if I ever have to buy a car, I hope I can afford a Porsche 911. The only acceptable looking car in the road as far as I’m concerned.

1

🚲 + 🚗

7d

I'd highly advise a Cayman/Boxster. Smaller, lighter, better looking, and they moved the engine to the proper place (the middle).

9

Miata Is Always The Answer

7d

Curious, would you rather ban fast yet smaller sports cars or slower yet massive trucks and SUVs? You can only choose one...

Also, I am a car enthusiast, and I get that most performance cars will never be tracked and have far too much performance for public roads. However a lot of performance cars handle really well which is something enthusiasts really enjoy. Of course cars don't have to be fast to be fun to drive, which is why the miata is the best selling two door sports car ever.

OP

6

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

Why do I have to choose one? If a cars intended purpose doesn’t outweigh its risks then it’s unnecessary. With SUVs you might be able to argue an off-road purpose (god knows how we balance that with the people who don’t actually need one).

I was going to use the Miata in my post to pose the question “where do we draw a line”? It depends. RWD allows for drifting and while i’m not an expert, I assume it’s easier to loose control.

I love miatas too. If everyone could drive responsibly that would be great but I worry cars outside of utilitarian design encourages hooning.

4

Miata Is Always The Answer

7d

I agree with your points, I was curious because a lot of the same reasons people drive recklessly with fast vehicles apply with larger vehicles too.

Yes RWD helps drifting and it does improve handling too as there's a longer distance between the driven wheels and the steering wheels. But you're correct it's easier to lose control, which is why FWD and AWD is preferred especially in rainy or snowy conditions.

1

7d

Acceleration and top speed governors should be active when on public streets. Disabling these governors should increase the penalties for traffic violations if caught.

For powerful vintage cars where retrofitting a governor is impossible, it should be really expensive to buy insurance for it.

1

🚲 + 🚗

7d

Why? I have a 1990 Miata. It's 2100lbs and does 0-60 eventually. The tires, suspension, and brakes are impeccable. It presents almost no risk to anyone outside the vehicle compared to anything produced today.

The cost of retrofitting such a system would be prohibitive compared to the value of the car, driving people to newer, larger, more wasteful vehicles.

2

6d

We are on the same page I'm just inelegant around how to implement acceleration limits on old car that are also incapable of accelerating faster than what's reasonable.

Vehicle unable to exceed acceleration limits could be left as is.

The goal is to normalize the capability of the vehicles on road to make it more predictable. Predictability reduces the probability people will misjudge the maneuvers they make around other road users. It would also reduce the animosity between different vehicles on the road. When everyone has similar capabilities, the George Carlin joke “Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?” no longer occurs.

WholeBlueBerry4

2

7d

Yes

You are correct

& The loud Gunning Motors, loud radios, loud illegal firecracker fireworks, car alarms, need to be totally permanently REMOVED from our neighborhoods for the GOOD of we : WORKERS, people who work at night thus must sleep during the day, people who work during the day thus must sleep during the night, children, Autistic Asperger's people WORKERS, hyperacusis hypersensitive ears and misaphonia people, children,

Please Force Them To : STOP HURTING US!

You are NOT fighting for freedom if you are NOT fighting for my/our Freedom!

whlthingofcandybeans

2

7d

Eh, yes, but I think we should focus on banning massive trucks and SUVs first.

2

7d

the first is not a high performance sports car its just a ute

Maximum-Share-2835

3

7d

Disagree. If I can drive I want to be able to have fun driving without needing to have enough extra money for just track days. Every day experiences should be enjoyable.

2

6d

Not banned but I think you should have to take a weekend / refresher course to drive a car over a certain horsepower. It's not a perfect way but it would at least ensure people knew how to drive. Same as a like a motorcycle safety course.

Continental-IO520

8

7d

Strongly disagree. Better driver education and restrictions on younger drivers would work far better across the board, along with more restrictions on the safety of modifications performed and stricter enforcement of speed limits. Modified cars are a tiny minority of all vehicles on the road and targeting them would do nothing to improve overall road safety.

Getting single driver cars off the road would be the biggest improvement here. I can tell you the vast majority of terrible drivers are not driving performance cars.

OP

1

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

How do you account for the examples I provided, and the thousands of other incidents alike?

Weary_Drama1803

11

🚗 Enthusiasts Against Centricity

7d

Nowhere near as necessary as taking literally any other group of drivers off the road. Would you rather have a sports car more likely to destroy itself on a curb or an SUV plowing through a building? And again, better driver education and more regulation on modified vehicles will keep down the problems sports cars have.

2

7d

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JasonGMMitchell

1

Commie Commuter

7d

How about neither the car that encourages you to push it faster than you can handle or the car that if you ever fuck up can level a wood framed building.

OP

-1

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

I support improving drivers-ed and removing car-dependancy (or taking drivers off the road where possible). But unless we’re gonna teach everyone to be sports drivers in high powered cars I don’t see how drivers ed will fix this.

I’d rather have both off the road. That sports car can still do a lot of damage—to drivers but especially pedestrians.

I don’t have the data but in my experience mod regulation doesn’t work. People modify their cars and go under the radar. Obnoxiously loud exhausts seem to have no problem. ~~If we stopped manufacturing~~ If we prohibit these cars and enforce harsh penalties, something might change.

u/Continental-IO520 states that these cars are only a minority but why should that matter? If we can reduce risk we should. Family members of those killed by high-powered cars don’t view their relative as a minority.

Weary_Drama1803

6

🚗 Enthusiasts Against Centricity

7d

Of course we should do harsh penalties to keep things in check, my country is actually very good at doing such things, but an outright ban is excessive. People like sports cars for more than just performance, and as long as it’s not drag racing kinds of power it’s not going to be automatically more performance = more bad. Being incapable of handling the performance you have is another issue.

So this is my solution: You can drive sports cars on public roads, but torque is electronically limited to prevent losses of grip or dangerous acceleration. You can modify cars but require a special license with restrictions on what you can change. No funny lift kits, loud exhausts or overpowered engines. You can modify what you want including disabling the electronic limiters on private roads, but you can’t drive them outside until those changes are reverted.

Continental-IO520

5

7d

I mean on your logic we should ban aircraft as well because they have the potential to be dangerous, but in reality they're overwhelmingly safe with proper training and regulation. There's almost no evidence that any of your proposals would create a lasting impact on improving pedestrian safety.

OP

0

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

That’s ridiculous and not at all my logic. High powered sports cars are unnecessary and pose a unique threat. Cars are far more common and accessible than planes.

What sort of training are you suggesting? We’re required to do 50+ hours supervised driving in Australia where crashes still occur (as shown in my examples). Age restrictions mitigate some risk but adults still hoon. People regularly ignore laws.

Is there evidence that it doesn’t work? I doubt it’s ever been tried. Is there evidence that your proposals work?

To be clear, I agree that it isn’t the most important thing we can do to increase overall safety. But given these are cars are unnecessary, why shouldn’t we increase safety—however small?

Continental-IO520

1

7d

This is a really weird take, as a fellow Australian you should know that modifying cars is stupidly difficult to do legally here as engineering certificates are required and most insurers won't touch modified cars. P plate rules are already incredibly restrictive (for good reasons) and performance cars simply aren't that common overall; most sales are of far more dangerous and heavy SUVs and utes.

BY FAR the biggest issues with Australia are to do with urban sprawl increasing car dependency, bike infrastructure (which in Melbourne is surprisingly good actually) and a low standard of driving education

This is the kind of take that delegitimises the urbanism movement as it has no basis in reality. This is like saying banning drugs would fix drug addiction.

OP

1

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

I know that modification is difficult (I didn’t know that insurers wouldn’t take you on). In my experience people modify their cars despite the law. I hear obnoxiously loud illegal exhausts all the time, (and while data would be nice) it isn’t a stretch to assume modification is under-enforced.

Regardless—modification isn’t my only concern. To be clear I’m concerned with stock high-performance vehicles like the Holden SS Ute.

What exactly are you proposing? In your first comment you state:

”Better driver education and restrictions on younger drivers would work far better across the board, along with more restrictions on the safety of modifications performed and stricter enforcement of speed limits.”

I’ve questioned drivers-ed twice and you haven’t answered. I agreed that age restrictions are helpful but note adult hoons—which you ignore and argue that P plates are already restrictive. You propose further restricting modifications then seemingly argue they’re already stupidly difficult. We seem to have different ideas of “common”.

I agree that car dependancy is the biggest issue but that doesn’t mitigate this one. I also support safe bike infrastructure. I wouldn’t have a problem if drivers only risked their own lives (like you noted earlier, we accept some danger) but they’re aren’t. As shown in my examples, they don’t give a shit about the law—how will drivers ed help them?

“No basis in reality”, it hasn’t been tried yet, nor did you provide any counter evidence. Drug prohibition failed because it’s impossible to stop the production and use of drugs. Cars are significantly easier to regulate.

I made this post to form and challenge my opinion, I have a number of doubts. I’m simply not convinced by your argument.

Edit:

To your earlier comment: If you’re willing to argue that the enjoyment of HP cars is similar to that of small aircraft—and therefor worth the risk—you might convince me. But until I find evidence, I’d guess there are far more injuries via HP car. Someone’s enjoyment shouldn’t put my life at risk when they could drive a normal car and choose a different thrill.

Continental-IO520

1

7d

Well in every single case you've mentioned, the accident could have taken place in a low performance vehicle, bad drivers are just bad drivers lol. I can tell you that when I'm cycling around I'm not worried about performance cars but rather SUVs being driven by tiny people who can barely reach over the dash and 4WDs being driven by idiotic bogan p platers.

Better driver education: - teaching how to set seating positions properly - right of way education - acknowledging the risks of operating a larger vehicle - car handling and defensive driving techniques - more standardisation of driving instructors and their abilities to deliver an objective based lesson. - understanding of cycling and being put in a position of being a cyclist

OP

1

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

We don’t see it on camera but I’m almost certain they crash due to high power and rear wheel drive. It would be much harder to do the same thing in a Miata. I hear you, I’ve found SUVs daunting but sport cars more reckless.

These are good ideas, thanks

Continue thread...

4

Fuck Vehicular Throughput

7d

Not every sports car is a Vette or a Lambo.

But even if they were, they are sports cars, not dedicated race cars. If i'm gonna have to get it to and from the racetrack anyways, it's probably gonna be fully stripped, on slicks, way harder suspension, totally different gearing, and it might even be something more like a Radical SR3.

I'm a car enthusiast that tends to like lighter cars (for a first car, i would want to get probably a Fiat 147, an 800Kg shitbox that i might be able to get to ~100-130hp with some mods), but i don't think more powerful cars should be illegal. Instead, limit the roads: make them less straight, build more speedbumps, add more speed cameras.

OP

5

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

If dedicated track cars—sports or otherwise—reduce safety then I’m all for it. Why distinguish between the two?

I’m fine with sports cars so long as all cars can be top speed and acceleration limited, unless at a track.

I agree with re-designing the roads but it’s not enough. Reckless drivers don’t care as proven in my examples.

My argument is this: If all cars can be reliably speed and accelerator limited then I don’t mind powerful cars. If not possible, powerful cars capable of excessive acceleration and speed should be taken off the road. I didn’t make it clear in my post but low powered sports cars on par with sedans aren’t of my concern.

1

Fuck Vehicular Throughput

7d

Why distinguish between the two?

A sports car is road legal. Something like a Mazda MX5.

A dedicated track car may have slick tyres, no lights other than brake lights, a shape that is not at all designed for road safety, usually no restrictions in the exhaust at all (meaning straight piped, meaning as loud as that engine can get), brakes that may require preheating, and most likely needs a helmet and hans device to not be an absolute death trap to the driver. Something like a Radical SR8.

You not understanding the difference makes me doubt your statement of having been a car enthusiast.

A sports car is not inherently more dangerous in the road than a normal car, an SUV or oversized pickup is. I'd even argue that they are safer, since they tend to be lighter and have better brakes.

You seem to be complaining more about drivers, yet blaming that on cars. That is solved by taking their driver's license, and then their cars.

OP

0

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

6d

My bad, I could have been clearer—I’m referencing high-powered sports cars. I believe both should be track cars hence why I don’t see a need to distinguish.

I agree that lighter, low powered sports car like the Miata aren’t inherently more dangerous. But there’s a clear difference between those and cars like the ones in the videos e.g. Holden SS.

Cars and their drivers are at fault. A Miata is less liable to loose traction under acceleration. As you can see in the videos, by the time you’ve taken their car they could’ve already killed someone.

1

Fuck Vehicular Throughput

3d

Even then, it's not a problem of those cars existing, they have TC and ESC. If a driver can't drive, take away their driver's license.

If someone is dumb-enough to turn off driver assists, and then slam their foot to the floor; that's because they're stupid, and should have their license taken away (and probably shouldn't have gotten it in the first place). The car has safety features that were turned off, and pedal travel that wasn't used.

The cars that i'd consider actually dangerous are SUVs, with higher weight, higher center of mass, and reduced visibility; not sports cars (even high power ones).

-1

7d

Track cars are actually safer than road cars due to roll cages.

1

Fuck Vehicular Throughput

7d

A roll cage can be installed in a road car, but it's just a part of it. The racing bucket, 4/5 point harness, helmet, and hans device are just as important

2

🚲 + 🚗

7d

Not to mention only using some of those can worsen safety. Harnesses alone, for example, are a terrible idea. Or roll bars without helmets.

2

Fuck Vehicular Throughput

7d

The rollcage and bucket can each go by themselves, the main problem is the harness without helmet and hans

CouncilmanRickPrime

3

7d

This isn’t Initial D

This is actually the anime that convinced me to buy my current car.

But I don't speed or anything so it's kinda pointless. Next car will be a Camry or Prius most likely.

1

7d

I never really understand why it's allowed that cars can go much faster than the max speed in most countries. Like even the smallest cars can go like 160 km/h, and I think most cases would go around 180km/h, while almost nowhere you can legally drive that fast (only public roads I know of is on sections of the German Autobahn). Also there should be restrictions to acceleration, going from 0-100 in less than 3s (like a Tesla S) is just crazy. As a kid from the 80's I was impressed by Ferrari's that 0-100 in 6s. This is just useless.

ActuatorInfinite3085

1

6d

That piece of crap car the guy crashed in Exhibit A is not a “high performance sports car.”

More of a stupid person’s toy car.

You can’t ban your way to happiness.

1

6d

I think cars should have license tiers like motorcycles do in the UK/Europe for starters. How it works in the UK is in order to get each license for motorcycles, you have to be either a minimum age or have held the previous license category for 2 years (whichever comes first), then you have to do the test on a bike that is at least at the lower threshold of that license category. I think a similar system should be done for cars.

Also I hate this stupid “I trust my driving/riding!” excuse. I see it all the time in motorcycle subculture. People doing stupid dangerous shit and not wearing any gear and they’ll say they know their limit. Like yeah, sadly you’re not the only person on the road. You trust yourself, but do you trust everyone else?

1

6d

I actually see them as much less of a threat than most SUVs... I'd much rather be hit by a dodge viper and slide over the bonnet than get steamrolled by something much larger and crushed into the pavement.

1

6d

I don’t like banning things, but I’m in favor of accounting for all the externalities and having people pay for it.

ManicPixieDreamWorm

1

6d

I don’t think this is really true, I am not really a car person but I have owned two Miatas (not high performance sports cars) and driven several sports cars that some acquaintances have owned. It is fun to go fast in those cars (in safe settings where you are not likely to endanger others) but the thing that always stuck out to me was how often I was driven slowly because the cars felt faster.

Sports cars are designed to make driving more engaging and for me at least that makes driving safer because I have more feedback from the vehicle about what I’m doing.

That said I think that sports cars largely select for drivers who are not going to drive safely. The sports car owning acquaintance I mentioned before was a hellish driver and I flatly refused to ride with him. But I also refused to ride with him when he owned a beaten old impala.

All this to say that while some cars endanger others (big trucks and SUVs especially) fast cars don’t make you drive fast being a shitty asshole makes you drive fast.

Also, big caveat that there are some “sports cars” like challengers or something that don’t really have minor the befits I mentioned and just go faster and I think this cars are stupid and shouldn’t exist.

I don’t know it’s kind of a half baked take

Edit: my take I mean is kind of half baked

1

7d

Bro, what are your examples? A Holden Ute and GTS... both of which are custom tuned. Not the dozens of Mustang or 'Vette crashes? Not a single supercar crash compilation, cmon!

Also about your point, people like to go fast. The "need for speed" is almost a instinctual human trait, and even if it'd be better if it wasn't on public roads at all, if they have to, I'd rather it be in a low slung, relatively controllable sports car over a 3 ton suburb tank. Besides banning sports cars for anything other than the track in a climate of increasing sprawl pushing raceways further from cities just means even more pickups and boxtrucks to ferry these things that can transport themselves.

Half of this subs argument is "you don't need two tons of metal to take you from point A to point B." So is it really smart to change tune and encourage us to double or triple our roadside mass for the sake of supposedly safely transporting ourselves and another vehicle? I mean, making license requirements more strict and pushing alternatives will do a lot to wipe these kind dickheads off public roads anyway, don't contribute to the roadway arms-race that North America already has and Australia is kinda getting too.

OP

2

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

They’re fine examples, even if they were stock they’d still be too powerful. I picked them because they’re common where I live.

A minority of people like to go fast which they impose on the greater public. You might have a point, some people would just hoon sedans. At the very least we need to hard pivot away from “sports performance” advertising. And do everything in our power to reduce risky driving. I argue banning e.g. V8 engine sports cars be part of that.

Fair point, we don’t want more trucks. I’ll have to consider this further.

interestingdays

1

7d

I'm at a loss as to how example A even happened. He's facing the wrong direction on the other side of rocks and a fucking tree. While the car has damage, the obstacles don't, so how on earth did he end up that way, even with a spin out.

OP

2

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

I think he spun out counter clock-wise then rolled in reverse behind the rocks/tree. I was confused at first.

0

7d

It looks like you are asking/telling this sub about your car related hobby. We get this a lot.

The most commonly held opinion here is that your hobby is fine, because it is not harming anyone. Being a car enthusiast is also not mutually exclusive with supporting better public transportation and safer pedestrian/bicycle infrastructure. It's a lot like when we stopped being so dependent on horses, they could live much nicer lives and be used for purely leisure.

Not Just Bikes made an excellent video on why people who like to drive would benefit from a world with fewer cars.

And because you are probably new to this subreddit, we'd like to ask you to read our FAQ. In there are plenty of answers to questions you might also have.

If this or one of the many post dedicated to this subject answers your question, then please consider removing your post for the sake of not bothering the regular users of this sub with the same question every few days.

Have a nice day

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-4

Sicko

7d

Bad bot

-1

7d

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Eat_Your_Paisley

-3

7d

I will continue to drive my modified for performance cars on the street and track so I disagree

OP

5

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

Why do you disagree?

Eat_Your_Paisley

2

7d

A modified or factory high performance will go and stop better than a stock car, there is a reason we dump thousands of dollars/euros into make the car better, if I want a car to go fast it needs to stop fast and turn corners fast.

OP

3

cities aren’t loud, cars are loud

7d

Cmon man, did you even read the post

-2

7d

sorry but no

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