(Revised) If I had to draw the 'official' English regions from scratch, this is what I'd do:
I’m from north Derbyshire and Northamptonshire feels like the south to me, not the midlands
Yeah me too. I can see some parts of it feeling a bit more south midlands-ish, but even then its a bit of a stretch. For me Derbyshire has a lot more in common that Notts, Staffordshire, Yorkshire and Lancashire than Northamptonshire.
I'm from Northamptonshire and Derbyshire feels like the North! Too many hills for the midlands.
There are definitely a lot of people in my part of the world who would identify as northern. Just don’t tell us we’re from Yorkshire, that really winds us up!
However, Stamford, in what is now Rutland, was in the Danelaw, too.
Stamford isn't in Rutland. Stamford is in Lincolnshire, which would be in Danelaw.
Oh! Of course, ignore me. I'm having a brain fart. Thank you, for the pick-up.
No worries. It's right on the border so easy mistake to make.
I thought the Danelaw bisected what is now Leicestershire?
Not entirely sure tbf, but doesn’t make a difference to my point anyway
I actually like this. Marchland and Lakeland is a nice touch of mideval longevity as well. Although I would probably just call Lakeland just Cumbria or Cumberland.
Also is Middlesborough in Yorkshire or Durham I can't tell?
Think Middlesbrough is in the Northumbria region but still part of Yorkshire county
Exactly that.
Middlesbrough is Teeside now. Or now Tees Valley along with Stockton, Darlington and Hartlepool. No where near Northumberland. Its not even classed as the North East any more as its the wrong side of the Tees.
On the map it looks like its just on the Durham side, the dark patch just before Yorkshire.
Cumberland is smaller than Cumbria, and anything below barrow is not Cumbria
Then anything below Barrow as Lancashire
Middlesbrough was in Yorkshire at 1 time though. But it is its own country is now Teeside. I think its the darker patch in the map, just under Durham. But I cant tell as theres only 1 river on that part of the map.
Plus Durham goes too far up on that map. Sunderland was never Country Durham. and according to this it is. Same as Newcastle.
I was quite a bit of a cartologist when i was younger and I live in the North East so know maps quite well. Like I say it would be better if the rivers was on the map. I could tell exactly what is what then.
Nah Hartlepool is not Teesside we are county durham ! Different accent, dialect, culture etc , Fair enough Stockton-on-Tees and Billingham etc but keep Hartlepool out of Teesside, BTW sunderland was county durham so was Gateshead, you smoggies stick to North Yorkshire ! That there is a prime example of you lot who are not even classed as even from the north east to us. You just don't get the culture, lingo etc.
Im not a Smoggy. Im from near Sunderland, not a mackem. a yacker tbh.
Hartlepool is part of Tees Valley, but not Teeside. I never said they were Teeside.
Tees Valley is made up with Middlesbrough, Stockton, Darlington and Hartlepool. The one which Ben houchen is the mayor of.
Bizarre to me to have such respect for ancient names in the North that you call Notts etc "Danelaw" (despite the Danish laws no longer applying there nor Danes ruling it) but to handwave Cornwall into "Lower West Country" (despite it having its own language, let alone more strongly Celtic cultural heritage).
I don't hate the grouping, but surely there's a better name for it that respects the history there.
Can't go two steps in Lincolnshire without hearing one of those bloody Danes
Flæskesteg flødebolle
Not only that, look at how they massacred my boy Wessex.
I support the division of the West Country in to two parts, as it allows all six counties to be a part of it without being too big of a region.
I would change the name of the Wessex region, but I'm not sure what to.
Wessex is now 'The Posh Corridor'
Have you ever visited the Isle of Wight?
Fair point.
And yes, twice. The first time I went I had the pleasure of seeing Big Daddy wrestle.
I've also got a picture of my neck after a python at the zoo decided it had enough and started to squeeze.
Eastern West Country
Yeah, having Oxford in Wessex but not most of the south coast in Wessex is weird. If there is a strong desire to use the name Wessex the regions in that area need redrawing to centre Wessex around it's historic core, otherwise it needs a better name.
Thinking about it I'd reorganise to the following:
West Country: Cornwall, Devon and Somerset
Wessex: Hampshire, Dorset, Wiltshire
Cotswolds(?): Gloucestershire, Oxfordshire, Berkshire
The problem with that way of dividing counties is that it removes Dorset and Wiltshire from the west country, a region that they definitely are in.
I'm not convinced about the Cotswolds name, as there's as much, if not more, Cotswolds in Wiltshire or Somerset as there is in Oxfordshire. I also have a problem with Wessex, that it's similarity to Sussex, Essex, and Middlesex means that it feels too "county like" for a multi county region.
Cheltenham is the halfway point between Lands End and the Scottish border.
I like it, but I’d have to raise the Lakeland-Northwestland border up a bit to the Cocker Chanel. Preston shouldn’t be split and Blackpool belongs in the same area as Preston, Blackburn, Chorley, Bolton, Manchester, etc; not with the Lake District.
Not sure why its called Northwest land when you could just call it Lancashire. Agree though, Preston, Blackpool and everything as far east as Manchester should probably remain as one county.
The proposed area only includes a small part of the current county of Lancashire.
Even going by the former boundaries, ‘Northwestland’ includes all of Cheshire and a significant amount of Staffordshire and Derbyshire, not just Lancashire.
Not sure why it’s called Northwest land when you could just call it Lancashire.
Because Lancaster isn’t in it. “South Lancashire” would work though, or perhaps “North Mercia”?
I'm sorry - you've shoehorned 'the Danelaw' in but you split up Mercia? The only time I've ever known the term east and west Mercia to be used is in the old names for the police regions. And you've given large parts of it away to other regions?
Just say you know nothing about the Midlands.
Danelaw is awful IMHO, at least name wise. Rather than Danelaw could call it Five Boroughs which was a part of the Danelaw while sounding more modern and English, and add Rutland to it as it was located within the area (though not one of the boroughs as that referred to Leicester, Nottingham, Derby, Stamford and Lincoln)
This, Danelaw wasn't just applied in the areas on this map; it was established along a much longer part of the eastern coast. That and it's no longer culturally relevant (nor has it been for 100s of years).
As someone who grew up in Lincolnshire the previous map was more accurate (IMO). We don't give a fck about the history of danelaw around here, and anyone who does usually has very questionable views if you get where I'm coming from.
This is the best I have seen. It sits in the sweet-spot between two sets of considerations that have to be borne in mind if drawing regional boundaries: (a) governance concerns - that the regions should be of a manageable size, capable of having substantial devolved powers, and should reflect economic areas; and (b) identity concerns - that regions should be 'natural' units, which have a sense of togetherness and shared identity. These regions (unlike the NUTS1 regions) are small enough to feel close to voters and relatively homogenous. It's also a good number of regions - few enough that the First Minister of each region could be a household name, but enough that no one or two would have disproportionate power.
I feel like Danelaw doesn't make sense.
Why would you name a region of your country after a tyrannical foreign rule? I know it exists in a historical context, but that context is inherently anti-Anglo. I'd just call it "Midlands" and call it a day.
Love everything else though
It was one thousand years ago and the occupation had a fair bit of influence on the language and geography of the region. Derby was founded by the Danes for example.
The Danelaw was a huge influence on the local language and place-names however.
Danelaw included Norfolk and parts of Suffolk though
Marchland is a nice touch, but of course Mercia already means borderland = Marches, and you've already dotted that name elsewhere within the historical Kingdom of the same name. If not going with Mercia, I'd probably look for another name that can have -march appended in the Germanic style (cf. Austrian Steiermark; Tolkienian Riddermark)
Sigh. Here we go again.
The Humber isn’t a line to use as a county border. Drop the Yorkshire border another centimetre under the Humber. Not only are Scunthorpe and Grimsby culturally North, they are also being folded into Yorkshire and the Humber by the government.
The Humber stopped being a county line a long time ago.
Didn't Maggie Thatcher get rid of the counties, for some bizarre reason? Google Maps still doesn't do them properly. If you ask it to find County Louth (in the Republic of Ireland) it'll outline it and show it in a different colour; not if you ask it to find County Fermanagh (in Northern Ireland).
English local government was reformed in 1974, as the old system was no longer fit for purpose. Thatcher didn’t do much except to abolish the metropolitan county councils and Greater London Council in 1986.
I don’t get the naming of “Upper” and “Lower” Home Counties; much of Essex is pretty low-lying, while Sussex includes the South Downs. Are they just being used to mean North and South? In which case why not just say North and South?
I think you’ve got Berkshire right by splitting it East /West. Reading and east Berks are more urban and feel more influence from London and the M4 corridor; while West Berks is more rural. This is basically what the new electoral constituency boundaries have done as far as I can see.
Personally given Cornwall's vast differences culturally and with its strong individual identity (own language, flag and ethnic minority), I'd put that as its own region rather than lump it with the others.
Could also add that it was not originally part of England at the time England was formed but was absorbed roughly 100 years later.
That said, prior to the Anglo-Saxon invasions of Britain, Cornwall, Devon, Somerset and around half of Dorset all formed one Kingdom, of which Cornwall became the last hold out. But only Cornwall held on to its culture.
67 missing replies
Huge fan of separating Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire from Northamptonshire. To me they just dont feel like they belong in the same region at all, and most of these maps lump them both in together because they’re both in the East Midlands