Weekly New Climber Thread: Ask your questions in this thread please

I wouldn't. No sense in masking pain which could be solved through other means like strengthening the rotator cuff, traps and seratus, all of which are frequently neglected with the internal rotation rotator cuff being a bit of a hack for shoulder blade bursitis in my experience... or it's just muscle soreness which is fine and all a part of the process.

Is this a good idea?

Probably not a good idea to use it as a regular training aid, it will have an adverse effect on things like liver health if you use it long enough. Body aches and soreness tells you something about your body, listen to it and maybe look into recovery exercises or ways to strengthen the problem areas.

still better than being at work.

If you climb in the shade, it should be fine. Don't climb in the sun. I live in Australia and have climbed on 95F days, it's fine in the shade, hell in the light. 80F isn't even hot.

Try it and report back

It depends on if it’s pure magnesium carbonate, and whether it’s been dried and stored away from moisture. If so, you’re right, it’s a compound and chemically the same, but I doubt both of the above are true for pottery chalk.

If you want cheap and simple, have a look at block chalk marketed for gymnasts. Can get around $15/kg on Amazon.

You really shouldn't.

Looking at other pottery suppliers that provide better information on their materials, the material you're looking at may be about 50% magnesium oxide which is insoluble in water, though still hygroscopic. For the purposes of pottery it does not matter since this is just used as a magnesium source in glazes, but in climbing chalk what you're paying for is the chalk being only water soluble magnesium carbonate. Due to the insolubility it will feel slimier on your hands and the holds for yourself an everybody else. Partially defeats the purpose of chalk which is to dry your hands.

It's out of stock, you may have broke the chalk industry Jokes aside, I really don't know the product and if there are differences with "specific" climbing magnesite. For sure I can tell that different brands offer different quality (at different price), for example Black Diamond and Wildcountry are IMO far superior to Decathlon so there will likely be some difference.

I got a very basic garmin (instinct one) and it has almost nothing specific for climbing. Seems like coros is trying to fill this gap in the smartwatch offerings.

You could try placing gear and whipping on it while on top rope, so you have a backup. This should rebuild your confidence in your placements, over time. Mind you, I'm of the belief that gear failure is inevitable and WILL happen with enough mileage. Trad climbing has always been about personal risk assessment and judgement calls, placing extra gear when you need it, running it out when you must. I always climb with the mindset that the last piece could blow, and whether I'm okay with that based the security of the placement, the pieces I placed before, and what's coming up next. Some climbs I will just refuse to do if it can't be adequately protected, and I have down-aided to get off a route before.

Oh fam, I feel you.

Therapy, meditation, and breathing exercises helped me a lot with the general anxiety and fear reaction.

Going back to the basics also helped a ton. Like just placing a ton of gear at the base of a crag, aid climbing, placing gear on bolted routes, and stuff like that.

And going out with friends for "low stress" days. Days where it doesn't matter what we climb and we don't have any objectives or goals other than having fun. Maybe we climb stuff that we've climbed before and feels familiar, we joke around a ton, BBQ in the parking lot, stuff like that.

Then gradually work up from there. I wish you best, friend.

This sounds terrible, have you worked with a therapist? They may be better at putting a plan together

Don't buy more gear.

You have everything you need except for a friend. Anybody who climbs outdoors enough to show you the basics will have rope / draws. Pay for gas to thank them for letting you use their gear.

You will acquire the gear yourself eventually, and it is better to have a lot of mileage first so you know you want to buy. IE, rope length could easily be 40, 60, 70, or 80 meters depending on where you climb and what you find yourself doing, and there really isn't a "right" answer here. The goal is to just buy gear that complements your partners so that together you will have what you need.

From what you said about the top rope bolt placements, you'll also need like at least a 5m sling or 10m of cord or static rope. You'll probably want four locking biners for the anchor, and then a fifth locking biner for your belay device. You could get away with three lockers for the anchor, but four is better (more secure, better bend radius). It would also be good, though not absolutely mandatory, to get some carpet or dedicated rope protectors to keep the top rope anchor from abrading on the cliff edge. This page might help you visualise what I'm talking about, and the process is described in more depth: https://www.vdiffclimbing.com/sport-top-rope/

Alternatively, I highly highly highly recommend you take a class in setting up outdoor top rope anchors, as people die doing this kind of thing without sufficient understanding. The fact that you're not sure if you need a locking carabiner for belaying is a worry.

it's difficult to provide an exact gear list for outdoor toprope setups without knowing more about where you're climbing. Somewhat ironically, sport lead climbing is much more straightforward. Toprope requires a bit of knowing what you're doing for setting up the anchor. it's highly recommended to hire a guide or take a class to teach you this in person and how to apply it to your local crags. but your bare minimum gear list should look something like this:

each individual climber needs: harness, shoes, helmet.

each pair of climbers needs: rope, belay device, chalk bag, 1x locking biner for belay device (HMS / pear shape recommended)

and then the anchor material. if your route has a bolted anchor with Mussy hooks, ram horns, carabiners, or a similar open system, your 2x locking quickdraws will work. If you've got rap rings, quick links, or just chain, you can sometimes get away with a single locking carabiner. a personal anchor and 1-2 more locking carabiners are usually incredibly helpful for anchor setup, and sometimes mandatory if the anchor location is difficult enough.
think about how you're going to reach the anchor from the top of the cliff to set up the rope- are you going to need to rappel in? are there trees to do so with? do you need tree protection? are the bolts on top of the cliff instead of on the face? do you need webbing to extend the anchor over the edge?

If any of the last two paragraphs was confusing, you need to do more learning before you go out and do thd on your own.

Knowing your general location will help.

See if your gym or a local climbing organization has any gym-to-crag days. Or hire a guide. There are also climbing festivals all over the place, which is a good place to take clinics, meet other climbers, and possibly find a mentor.

There are tons of physical and digital resources available to you. Too many to list, frankly. Books, YouTube, and the Internet are a great place to learn but they're no substitute for real instruction. Anything from the AMGA/IFMGA or someone accredited by them will generally be solid info. Same goes for the major brands like Petzl or Mammut, climbing organizations like the American Alpine Club, and most of the bigger YouTube channels and Instagram pages (e.g. HowNot2Highline).

Get a GriGri or other assisted device ASAP

Learn to lead indoors

Thicker slings might afford you a marginally better resistance, but if there is a concern, then I would focus on padding the edge to protect the slings.

It totally depends. I know people who are 40 and go limit bouldering outside 350 days a year. I know people who are 25 and have a hard time climbing outside 150 days a year

Even if you can recover enough to not get injured, I highly doubt that this is actually the most efficient way to train. Most professional climbers don't even train that much, and that's after decades of building sport-specific training capacity.

There's no way you are climbing at peak performance 6 days a week. Footwork isn't going to "let up" because you take more than 1 rest day a week. You can't climb with your best possible technique if you are tired any more than you can climb at max strength when you are tired.

I think for 99% of climbers, anything more than 4 days a week is empty volume, if not outright harmful. Plenty of people see a sweet spot at 3 days a week even. If you feel lazy on rest days, do lots of yoga and core work.

As somebody who used to do 20hrs/week on and off wall training between rocks and calisthenics and currently does not try nearly as hard but still climbs just as hard... I can say in no uncertain terms I would have been bigger, stronger, and better if I did less back then while hitting it with the same level of tenacity. Probably spend like half the time I used to training any more. If exaggerating ass top level bodybuilders claim 18 hours a week when they're optimizing for muscle recovery across the whole body it stands to reason that 20 for our specialized sport is a huge waste for the average hobby athlete.

Rest is when you get stronger. Building is done with nutrients and rest. Rest isn't lazy, it's efficient training. Tendons take 3x as long as muscles to recover. It pretty much spells itself out, not that I noticed at the time. You have a stated pully issue + biceps tendonitis in post history. The signs are all there...

Speaking anecdotally, it seems like most people cant do more than about 2.5 project level sessions in a week on average and actually keep their recovery up in the long run on key groups like fingers, elbows, and shoulders. I'd generalize that to 4 total sessions a week with 2 being project for most folks. I generally see people deteriorate into an overuse injury over the course of 1-2 months with 3 full project sessions in a week if they also have 1-2 days of not very hard climbing. Hangboarding counts for up to a full session also IMO depending on strategy. Obviously there's some variance with age and genetics and fitness level and diet, but you get the idea.

Convert one tech day to manage the antagonist training to keep joints happy and convert the other tech day to enjoying your life with the rest of the hours you're currently wasting probably not getting better and definitely not getting stronger.

Or keep doing what you're doing + more. I'm not your mom. This is all just my opinion anyways. The r/climbharder injury post will greet you with open arms if you run yourself ragged :)

Depends on age, fitness, skin, and intensity. I can usually get three (maybe four) intense climbing sessions a week. The only way you're climbing six days a week is if you're either climbing well below your ability or you're an olympic-level athlete.

Rest days are when your body rebuilds itself stronger. Constant days on will result in overuse injuries as your body keeps tearing down tissues with no time for regeneration.

Those rubber keepers just help make clipping easier. They don't serve a purpose other than that. If you want to put them on, I'd soak them in warm water or leave them in your car on a hot day. The heat makes them more pliable. Just make sure your carabiners go through the dogbone, not just the rubber keeper, after installation.

Out of curiosity, do your local crags have bolts that are easily accessible from the top, and that don't require leading or sketchy downclimbs to access?

Rubber keepers are mostly there as a convenience just to make clipping easier

Dean Potter was seriously considering it. If he'd lived long enough he might have done it.

It's long, hard, and most people good enough at soloing to do it are either dead or Peter Croft. Alaine Robert probably would have given it a go but Freerider wasn't done until 1998 at which point he'd moved on to buildings.

No one else that thinks that they might be able to pull it off wants to put their life on the line to free solo Freerider.

why no one besides Honnold has attempted to free solo El Capitan

Why would someone solo el cap?

Most of us like climbing and would rather keep climbing instead of wasting our time dying.

Pick up a guidebook that has the free routes on El Cap and/or see here. They're hard and they're long and very few people solo anywhere near that level.

East Buttress and the West Face are probably the two most realistic contenders for mortals (I've not climbed either). I can think of at least a couple people who have soloed the East Buttress but many people don't consider that to be a "proper" El Cap route because it's so far off to the side.

Honnold is one of very few people who are willing to take on that level of risk. Siegrist, like most pro climbers, has no history of hard soloing as far as I know.

Getting your climbing education from random Facebook feeds is like learning to skydive by watching Yosemite Sam.

What you do (sliding X) is fine. Girth hitch anchor is fine. Combining them both is weird IMO. Long sling into a masterpoint knot is fine. Quad is fine. Cloves are fine. Different tools in the tool box for different uses and preferences. Experiment and see what you like.

Use strong pieces and make shit redundant.

The girth hitch anchor has become trendy lately for no particular reason other than influencers needing a new hotness to make videos about. Yes just using a longer sling and a traditional master point is the same.

Why are you building an indoor wall of that scale at all unless you know if you'll like climbing it? Do you have money to burn?

A rope soloing setup would be cheaper, but inherently more risky. Would make for great practice if you ever wanted to do rope soloing outdoors! Even with failure you probably would walk away with very minor injuries (relative to outdoors) but that risk assessment is all up to whether or not it's worth the cost. Personally that's what id do if I had the space but I also have a very high risk tolerance so do with that what you will.

$2800 is cheap when you compare it to someone's life

Short answer: NO

SRLs are not designed for repeat use as you would see in climbing, they are fall arrest devices that arrest within 6 feet or so of falling. They are not descenders. From the edge manual: "EQUIPMENT IS SUBJECTED TO A FALL: Remove the equipment from service immediately if it has been subjected to the force of a fall arrest"

Autobleays like the iQ are EN341:2011 Class A devices typically which are descenders and meant for repeat use and descending. These devices also have a pretty strict inspection schedule to match.

Not a doctor, definitely not your doctor. See a doctor if you actually want a diagnosis.

Stuck part way and worse in the morning generally means 'trigger finger' for which rest is a solution for many people unlike alot of other climbing related finger woes. I had a bit of it some 8 years ago or so, two to three weeks off sorted it out fully and with a slow return to activity I've not had it recur since, and similar results for a couple other folks I've known to get the early stages of it. Dont let stuff like that get chronic.

Ps if you want to chat more I frequent the same gym chain

The thing about climbing a lot is your fingers are going to feel weird occasionally. Generally these things do go away with time, even if they seem severe in the moment. I was unable to close one finger entirely after I repeatedly tried a boulder problem with a pocket over many weeks, aside from that it never bothered me and I climbed through it. Judging by your chart the symptoms are currently manageable. This might just be the weird thing you have.

The important bit is does the feeling weird bother you enough to do anything about it?

No: Climb through it, get back to your normal level of climbing and if nothing gets worse, just deal with it or otherwise manage the symptoms until it goes away.

Yes: See a physio.

If it isn't just stiff but actually painful, then I would see a physio and get it checked out.

The only issue I had with every pair of python was that the velcro almost stopped sticking after 1-2 year and was getting open on my first step on the wall (indoor use only). Hope la sportiva got that fixed, the shoes were usable anyway but it was quite annoying.

The straps can be marginally more likely to snag on a feature when you’re doing something dynamic, and close to the wall. Deadpoint while flagging etc. I haven’t had it ever knock me off, and I like the way the shoes fit and perform (otakis) so it’s ok for me.

No, they're fine

Ask at your gym if they have a partner finder program, and you should be any to specify what age partner you're looking for.

I feel very lucky that, when I was 13, adults from the gym would take trips with me and drive me all over to go rock climbing. Now the mentorship gap has gotten so massive that it seems more rare it happens. I am sorry, that makes things tough

I would not go climbing outside with a minor unless there was a very good reason, eg. relation or they were nearly adults and already extremely experienced (one 17 year old I'd go with is on his national team and has bolted routes). As the adult I'd be responsible for them if anything happened, in a way I wouldn't be when going out with another adult.

Climbing clubs are a good way to find groups to get out with. To be honest I don't think someone being underaged is inherently an issue for most people, apart from the creepy types - if you're psyched, reliable, safe, and have a good attitude then you are a good partner. There's plenty of stories of famous climbers who got into climbing by being the psyched teenager who was always at the crag.

This isn't really the place for TRS discussions since it is an advanced and dangerous technique rather than a beginner one FWIW

The croll if used at the chest with the bottom eye clipped does not positively retain the rope with a carabiner like the devices that petzl shows in their article. Obviously this adds extra failure modes and therefore risk since a bit of weirdness could result in the rope completely exiting the device.

Note also: The article was written at the time of the old basic, NOT the new basic without the additional carabiner hole at the top

[Image] 

You'd be better off doing roped climbing. Easier on shoulders etc. and no fear of falling.

If you aren't already, it's likely worth working with a PT. Bonus if you can find someone that understands the sport.

I personally gain confidence during the rehab process. As I become stronger I feel free to take bigger chances and begin to climb like myself again.

Scarpa is on the wider end. 

I'd start with the widest shoes you can find (Evolv tends to run pretty wide) and see how far off they are. Beyond that, you might talk to a resoler like Yosemite Bum or Rock and Resole about whether it's possible to stretch the shoe to make it wider but not longer.

In Shanghai China's largest gym (where national teams practice during IFSC, and celeb climbers do promos) last month had one Perfect Descent auto belay rope snapped at 7 meters as the climber was descending. The rope was lightly frayed, the official statement said they did all the regular maintenance and checks, but it still failed. I climbed on that auto-bely just a few months before the failure.

They usually don’t mention the cause to avoid legal liability. I’ve never seen a case that wasn’t human error though.

After the fall the line for the auto belay is always either found at the ceiling (not connected to the climber) or still attached to the ground (not connected to the climber).

Maybe someone somewhere managed to load the carabiner strangely and come unclipped in an honest accident.

If we take forgetting to clip in out of the equation

The only way to evaluate the safety of autobelays is to look at the whole system, including the human using it. Attempting to evaluate individual pieces of equipment like this leads you down a bad path.

The human is probably on the order of 100x more likely to fail than the equipment and you're no better than anyone else. Looking at pieces of gear in isolation as a way to reassure yourself that you're safe is a dangerous mindset.

Equipment fails so infrequently that it's barely worth mentioning in the grand scheme of things. Even when gear does fail, it's almost always got some kind of human factor behind it.

Use autobelays long enough and you will make a mistake that gets you seriously injured. The trick is to develop systems that make "long enough" so long that it doesn't happen in your lifetime.

There was an incident in Australia. IIRC the anchor for the autobelay was behind the wall, and the webbing was running over the top of the wall. Eventually the webbing failed under bodyweight.

I've only come across of a single instance of pure equipment failure. Links:

ukclimbing discussion

news article (yle)

I swear Petzl is weird about bullet points as if the articles were put together by interns trying to fluff out the length...

The bullet points appear to me to be a plus/delta of the same concept, not a comparison between the two blocking methods. With a pull cord instead of a second rope you lose the ability to thread the next rap before pulling down the previous rap. "The next rappel cannot be set up until the rope has been fully retrieved." but they propose as a tradeoff that you don't have to pull the entire pull strand through the rings of the lower rap because you can theoretically just retie from the middle "The next rappel can be set up without threading the rope through the ring."

Backing up this idea, Petzl shows swinging raps on two full ropes in their article on regular rappelling [link]

Totally fine and normal, if the core is exposed that’s bad otherwise you’re fine.

Normal. The outside of the rope is just the sheath. Its purpose is to protect the white core strands in the middle of the rope that you can’t see. Some abrasion on the sheath is normal, as long as you don’t have a tear where you can see the core strands underneath.

Depends on your local area.

For my area a 70m would be the first purchase.

Great for outside and you can cut it to two 35m gym ropes in the future if you want.

You can make a 60 or 70 work in the gym but it’s a bit of a pain.

Depends on te crags where you climb. I often use the full 80m of my rope. But I definitely would not want to use that 80m rope in the gym.

How tall are your local crags. Get a rope appropriate for that. You can use the same rope in the gym if you don’t mind carrying a little bit of extra rope. Put the rope on a tarp or basket and you won’t need to flake the entire length of the rope every time you move it.

Only time a 60 is a significant hassle is when a short crag has a long approach.

There is a huge grayscale and it differs wildly in different parts of the world. In France and Spain it is much much more common, compared to, say, Tensleep 8 years ago.

The most appealing is totally natural rock that needs no cleaning. This is somewhat common on boulders but quite rare on rotes

Most rock requires some work with a crow bar or hammer to clean loose rock. This is common on boulders and almost universal on rock

The next level down is reinforcing holds with sika glue or comforting holds, basically sanding down and comforting sharp edges or reenforcing loose holds

Then comes outright drilling holds where there are none or enhancing holds to make something easier. This used to be quite regular, but has become much more frowned upon in the last 20 years.

You can see Chris Sharma "repairing" a route in one of Alex Megoses vlogs. I think it's his first video of sleeping lion.

It’s frowned upon for people to chip holds on routes that they themselves can’t do and are therefore trying to make it easier for themselves.

It’s frowned upon to manufacture holds that look like ladders.

It’s not frowned upon for developers to manufacture holds slightly in a way that looks natural so that the route can go at the grade relatively consistently. It is however not something very much openly talked about.

Holds aren't usually made using sika - they're reinforced or glued back onto the wall. This is quite common and not the same as chipping away rock and making holds where there weren't any before, which is generally frowned upon/not talked about openly.

Sikaflex? It's a type of adhesive. Someone probably glued some wobbly flakes together. I would not say that those practices no longer exist, it still happens, though it's not as popular as it may have once been.

size 40 TC Pros

solutions

La Sportiva are mostly leather shoes (unless they're called 'vegan'). I was with you on this until I actually tried non-leather shoes (Tenaya) and the smell or shape or anything wasn't really worse than my La Sportiva leather shoes. I'm just flabbergasted the plastic shoes are the same price

If I’m following, once my partner pulls up rope, I say “that’s me” and they put me on belay, I can break down the anchor, no matter what it’s made of. I’m on belay so excepting some weirdness, Im good to go, maybe I introduce some slack if I’m breaking down a rope anchor but shouldn’t be much.

As lectures mentioned, there's not much to it if you're on a ledge. However if you're at a hanging belay, then yes after your leader puts you on belay you would want to go in direct to the piece closest to your tie-in, break down the anchor, and have your belayer take up the slack. Then start climbing and take the last piece out.

There's not really anything to it.

Upper belayer pull rope and it goes tight-ish against the anchor. I unclove the pieces farthest from me sequentially and then climb.