You must not be a real climber then
Bouldering is great
God damn that was an epic read
Beautiful article.
Fantastic article. I’m not a climber. I’m a chimpanzee
I’m a gumbo
I am also way too handsome to be a real climber.
That article just made my day!
This is kinda harsh
Free solo is aid because of weight reduction
I accidentally trad soloed once.
I climbed a route with two ropes on my harness. First 3 pieces I clipped the right rope. I went over a lip and was no longer visible to the belayer. Then I brain farted and started clipping the non-belayed rope. Yep, I climbed nearly a full pitch faithfully placing gear. I didn't realize my mistake until I got to the anchor and looked down trying to figure out what was wrong.
Tag line for party of 3 goes on the back now. Always.
I just threw up in my mouth a little. My fear of heights, man
yep, I used up my luck for the day on that climb.
I slowly and carefully descended and went and got a beer. I was done for the day.
When you said that you climbed with two ropes, I thought they were both belayed, like in classic two-rope trad practice. I like it because it's safer and more comfortable to place gear, avoiding unnecessary friction. Usually, people use only one rope because they don't want to carry extra weight and so on. But I mean, if you're already taking two ropes, why not belay the second one?
People generally don't belay on two single ropes. Yes, you can, but it's thick and annoying. I was doing this for a party of three, so it was already not generally how I do things.
It was a comedy of errors obviously. Thankfully without consequences other then lessons learned.
I was very confused for a moment. Twin ropes are often used in mountaineering, albiet I hate them.
https://youtu.be/7YQ1JPjuG_c?si=Efjb2l2pKrVKqxVe
I think this counts
Damn, I dont know which is worse.
Free solo trad. Love it
I suspect this might actually be better than it looks.
Not lots better, but better.
It looks like shit
Its certainly more effective than literal shit. How much more? Unclear
You don’t know my fiber intake.
More fiber means a less solid poop.
they never said it was a high fiber intake
Are you sure about that
I'd bet and entire £1 that this holds bodyweight in a good placement.
All i got is 1£ with a little chunk missing, will that be ok
And for OW pitches you are walking a cam up on a daisy. Nobody in their right mind leaves this piece below them.
If you traded out the zip ties for something like pipe clamps, maybe? Otherwise you’re relying on the shear (or tensile) strength of two zip ties
The zipties only hold the wood in place while transporting/placing. When it's placed, it would be held in place by the same forces that hold the cam in place if placed normally. The zip ties would probably experience no load at all in a fall.
I generally agree, my thought was since the cam body is independent of the ply there is only a friction connection. Idk how the ‘cupping’ of the ply on cam would influence strength, but I think tear-out with the ply on its side grain would happen with fairly low forces.
The friction would be amplified a lot due to the geometry of the cam. The wood being shaped to fit the cam probably helps a lot in distributing the forces acting on it. But I also noticed that the grain orientation seems to be all over the place. If I would make something like that I would have the long grain along the tangent of the circle if that makes sense. The rings in the end grain should be parallel to the two contact surface. That way the wood should be the strongest.
In the right placement it's probably not the weakest point and plenty strong. That said, I wouldn't trust myself to make a call what is or isn't the right placement.
If the friction surface connecting the cam to the wood was as wide as the wood, maybe. However the cam is going to cut through the wood fibers like a knife bc the contact surface is so thin.
I think you are severely underestimating the compressive strength of wood! I hope the hownot2 guy sees this so we can settle this hahahah.
Haha for real! I’m half way to making a ‘prototype’ to send in. I wonder what’s their policy on jank? lol
Please keep going. It’s 1am in the morning and I’m enjoying this conversation
Any theories? I’m all lobes lol
The wood grain should not be running perpendicular to the lobe. Force on the wood will cause it to split and fall apart easier. If the grain were running parallel to the lobe, I would actually consider using it in an extreme pinch.
I am not an engineer, but I don't think its the shear strength of the zipties. Someone smarter than me can draw force vectors...
I think this would actually work fine. Doesn't mean it's not sketch.
I would try trading out the cam with shit on it with a cam that had no shit on it
If it looks like shit and works like garbage, then it's better than it looks.
Let's ask How Not 2
Prediction: wood grips, zipties snap, cam slides out of the wood pieces like butter.
Yeah but at what force? I reckon around 2kN maybe? Would I whip? Nope…
Zipties up against sharp metal edges or on rough rocks in a crack can snap with just a few pounds of force
Cutting a ziptie under tension is like cutting a rope under tension, except way worse
I don’t think the zipties are actually load bearing in this setup. It’s just a convenience thing to not have to manually wedge the wood spacers manually. The issue I see is with the metal on wood friction and possibly the wood pieces not necessarily withstanding the compression efforts they might be subjected to.
The technique here is to clip your daisy to the cam and walk it up. This looks … brilliant. If that is hard wood, you’re probably ok. At worst you slide down onto it.
For those who have never walked a #8 Merlin up 100’ of OW, this is not much worse.
The grip of wood on metal isn't bomber at all, the zip ties can easily get cut by the rock or the pressure exerted on them by the metal and then the entire thing just falls out
I feel that if it was plywood I’d be MORE ok with this but not this type of lumber. Lots of wood glue, lots of lamination going on with ply that makes it stronger. The weaknesses with the above are related to splitting along the grain.
Can I have your TV?
Wedging the guidebook in the crack against the cam actually works really well. I've whipped on this system a couple of times and been fine. Your method is relying too much on cable ties. You're gonna die!! 😉
The cable ties wont matter once its placed. Just gonna be friction and pressure holding it togetther
I think under enough force, friction + zip ties will be keeping the wood blocks from shearing/sliding out of place. Between the wood/cam there probably isn't much friction.
My thought is if it's less than 50% closed it's basically falig out if not for the zip ties
Lol, I was inspired by this photo a few years ago and tried it, it didnt hold - front pages of the guidebook just tore off. May have been due to the slippy laminated cover... very disappointing
Do you want to live?
Lol, I actually know Andy.
Guidebook probably has some give. Good chance the wood just shatters.
Bomber
Not literally this, but using a piece of 2x4 with a cam to make it work in a wider than intended crack is actually something that is recommended (if absolutely needed) for aiding in Andy Kirkpatrick's Higher Education book.
OP if you're actually taking this up an aid route, mad props brother
Yeah this makes no sense… in an emergency let me just pull out my pocket 2x4? (Based on “if absolutely needed” part… though that is vague)
I think its more along the lines of, hey might as well throw part of a 2x4 in the bag incase we need it kind of thing. not prepared in a good way, but prepared in a fuck it we ball kind of way.
So what do you use the 2x4 for? I can’t picture this in my head lmao
I assume you place one side of the plank against the wall of the crack, effectively making it a smaller crack?
Huh, and then the cam just holds it all in place with friction. That’s crazy
Cam companies don’t want you to know this one trick!
Ever see that SNL fake commercial Bad Idea Jeans? https://youtu.be/mGfBEnBw01A?si=Ex-OeizkDfwTi1Rf
This can't be worse than stacking
You forgot the duct tape
I do not like this Sam I am(ster)
I think the right most zip tie could be a tad tighter, other than that you’re golden!
Zip ties are useful to fix practically everything.
Oh boi
I would wish you Good Luck but I think Sadly Goodbye...
I find it funny when my trad climbing husband stares at some of his old climbing gear skeptically wondering if it is still good. He's kind of like "ehhh... It will probably be just fine. Might not want to take a fall on it though". And the spring mechanism and wires are somewhat bent. Who knows?! Lol
The spring is just to hold it in place. The wires are only for the trigger.
Might be an inconvenience but if it's staying when you place it it'll hold a fall. Climb on!
This guy just man-splained unironically on r/climbingcirclejerk.
Edit: I thought I was in a different sub. Haha.
Tbf this is a circle jerk post fer sure
I thought the same till I got to your comment, you aren’t alone
I’m going to DM you my number and you can call me once your hubby dies.
I don't know. In a way if you can wedge this bomber into the crack and it fits perfect it might be awesome. Who knows. (disclaimer.... This is not advice)!
I'd bet that you would be surprised at how much force that can hold. That's a big piece as long as the wood shim stays in place for the compressive force to be applied then I'd bet it would hold a 20ft fall no problem. Mainly due to the size
Would I ever climb with that... no, but I bet when properly placed it holds more than micro sized cams any day of the week
Steambending straight grained wood would be better.
This is basically endorsing, waiting for a cristal as a wedge.
Yeah it's basically all short grain if you don't bend it. Maybe cutting placing the grain diagonal to the lobes wouldve been marginally better.
I think you posted in the wrong sub, mate. The one you're looking for is r/climbingcirclejerk
This reminds me of that climbing article about a guy and his friends who went to Lowes to get a nylon rope for climbing. They said it was twice as long as the end of the day.
The wood on the left is cut against the grain, the wood on the right is with the grain, and I can’t actually decide which one will be the one to kill you so that cancels out and I think you’re good to go. Full send
That's a very shifty friend
Woodworker here, I’d swap that pine wood out for hard maple and you’re good to go.
Kinda aid.
YGD
Just don't fall 😂 In a way it's more reason to try to climb epicly (good epic)
My husband always says "don't fall" or "that is a no fall zone" hahhh. Mostly on ice climbs
If the plan is to not fall (on penalty of death), why even use gear?
That's why I laugh. On the ice climbs when he says this. I feel like I don't have a choice if I'm super pumped out on an ice climb I will likely fall but I am seconding not leading, also. He's more likely to have the gusto to really hold on and grit down and not fall..hence all those loud grunts that sometimes happen.
I kind of get it. There are situations where you REALLY don't want to fall. The consequence of falling in those areas would not be great. Some trad climbs are better protected/protectable than others and many are run out far. The gear is for peace of mind but it is not one hundred percent guaranteed and should never be trusted that way. Yes it can save your life. I kind of agree with the philosophy of climbing with gear while climbing almost with the mindset that there is none that way you are climbing well thought out moves along the way.
Keep in mind I am a hang dogger. This is more how my husband climbs.
10/10, would whip
Yeah. Honestly, 10/10 wood whip.
With this kind of friend you don't need any enemies
Love it! The wood will ensure no damage to the crack is done and minimize the forces your system takes.
Might need to bring a mop and a corpse bag to leave zero trace in case you whip.
People used to make their own wooden chocks, a slight improvement on slinging pebbles. This is maybe not the worst idea, though I wouldn’t want to be the one testing it.
I think I'd sooner just use the cam with a block of wood. 10/10 for creative thinking though.
I vaguely recall a route in Wales that used to have a bicycle crank arm as a piece of fixed gear
Sure, good luck
Slight chance the wood will split down the middle. But... I think itll catch you. Let us know.
In case he doesn't let us know, we all know what happened.
Those cable tie are good for about 12kg static each, but hey at least they are uv stablised
Bomber it even has reliefs cut in the wood so the structural zip ties don't abrade
Super good enough, frickin send it
Luck. All of it. You'll need it.
When was the last time you updated your will?
I think this is worse than a single block of wood/Andy Kirkpatricks book because the lobes themselves can apply force in slightly different directions so the smaller chunks may just wobble off or break under load where the as single block would be able to be held in place by two lobes better.
Think holding up two phones against a wall with one finger each vs a book with two.
You’d be better off with a piece of wood to stack against the cam.
100 points for creativity.
My thoughts exactly
no
would whip
Solid engineering, would whip.
I'm curious if this works better than using a 2×8
Rip
Double up…
Bomber
I actually laughed out loud, a good chuckle, if you will.
Ok Hamlet
If that's hardwood I'd definitely whip
Thought this was ccj
Zipties rip easy. dont use that thing. any stress on it and it fails.
10/10 would whip
😆 You're gonna need it!
Yikes.
I hope you recessed the zip ties so they're not in contact with the rock.
Yikes.
Dibs on his shoes
hownotto entered the chat
Few more zip ties will give it extra grip like studded tires
What is this thing?
Lol
Co to
Fucking send it
What exactly am I looking at?
Gear is CLEARLY aid!
lol. I think the extra zap strap is probably overkill but redundancy is important.
What could possibly go wrong?
It’s only if you fall. Ok. Your on belay.
What type of wood is used? If it is hardwood, which I sort of doubt, then I would think it could be better than most people think. Use wider zip ties. Send it to a test lab.
I woodn't do that
I’d whip
Here, take my chewing gum!
Can someone explain this to me? Looks like this structure is set up on an artificial wall? Why would you set it up this way in a gym?
It’s a homemade cam
Wow, I’ve never seen someone freesolo with so much gear before!