Looking for insights to these trails for canyoneering next week. Currently having to use 2 different ropes for the 280-300ft Egypt 2 rappel. Would prefer not to hop knots, and preferably not buy a a super long rope ill only use a couple times. Is anyone keen on joining an adventure or know where I can rent a static rope compatible with a GRIGRI for rapping?
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I’d suggest picking up a rappel device such as the sqwurel, critr3, hoodoo, etc. they are far better than an atc where you can’t easily adjust friction on the fly.
With longer rappels it’s likely you will need to increase friction as you descend. The grigri is too expensive to trash for rappels in sandstone.
I will add that you can adjust friction using an atc with a z rig, but those other devices simplify and are much nicer.
if we encounter any sand
LMK when you find the non-sandy part of Escalante! :D
Buy a rope big enough for the rap and split the cost with a buddy then cut it in two when you finish.
Having done the long rappel into Egypt 2 once, I was just as happy hiking around it on my second descent
Serious question: How many canyons have you run with a Grigri or ATC?
I know it's different in class A and B than in C, but no one I know uses either. I thought it was still uncommon for y'all, too.
I’ve exclusively used the grigri in 5 relatively short canyons and 150-200ft raps. I have a critr3, and other tools to utilize, but have favored the grigri for familiarity sake. Admittedly trading off redundancy, 3rd hand prusik, and other backup. I always take back up devices on my belt just in case.
Fair enough, I can't say much on the redundancy angle as we never use backups in class C canyons as drowning is the larger risk. In guessing you're like me, coming over from the climbing world?
My climbing experience extends to 5.10a routes. I'm 6' tall and 220 lbs. I've found climbing to be pretty difficult at my weight. I enjoy outdoors more when I have a destination of interest at the end or motivation for expeditions. large rappels, access to less traveled scenic areas, and a bit of class 4 scrambling typically satisfies the itch. I've been inclined to adopt adrenaline sports in the past, and this hobby ticks a few of those boxes better than climbing (although climbing is riddled with adrenaline and dopamine hits in a variety of styles. I just don't have interest in spending ridiculous money for a full rack of cams and trad gear to get the experience I seek.)
Canyoneering, to me is calculated risk, mitigated with experience, ingenuity, and self control/reliance when you are faced with different challenges. It's wildly similar to climbing in the sense of physical ability, exposure, and self management, but at a different pace and different exertion I find more suitable and enjoyable.
A few quick hitters:
1) Can't rent ropes. Maybe can find somebody you're acquainted with that'll let you borrow a rope in exchange for some beer. That said, you can usually find deals on lightly used ropes on the gear forums. Shop online vendors for sales; you can often find stuff like Sterling Canyon Prime available for 50-60 cents a foot if you shop smartly. There's also a handful of folks who sell spool ends/custom-length-but-customer-didn't-pick-up on ebay. With a single 300' rap that's within walking distance of your car, you can use non-canyon static rope like a KMIII as long as you protect it over the edge as the weight/float don't really matter.
2) A grigri is a dangerously bad idea. Sand can not only gum up the works and potentially leave you stuck on rope, it can also get worn pretty fast (also a danger with an ATC). Grigri is also sensitive to rope diameter, potentially resulting in surprisingly fast descents. For stuff like getting into swimmers in Neon, it can be difficult to disconnect. And, because it requires two hands to operate, may (not so much in Egypt, but in plenty of other southwest canyons) result in face-mashers during transitional raps. While an ATC or Climbing 8 are great backups, probably not a good idea for a 300' rap. And I'm not super-dogmatic like some in the canyoning community - an ATC is fine for a lot of stuff in places like Zion, where the typical rap is about 50-80 feet. Drop the $20-30 for a Sterling ATS or a Critr or an 8 with horns or an equivalent device.
3) As mentioned, some of these canyons are X. You'll also be coming at a time when afternoon thunderstorms are a real worry. People have been killed via flash flood in the Egypt bench, and while May flash floods are less common, they're not unheard-of.
Also worth noting: Neon is going to be cold, and the road to Egypt bench is devoid of services and at times requires 4x4/high clearance. Do you have the proper cold gear and recovery gear?
I have not heard of a place that rents ropes, static or dynamic. There is no way to know what happened to it last time someone used it or if it's safe for the next rental.
I don't think anybody is going to let you do a 280' rappel on an expensive canyon rope with an ATC or grigri. To avoid bouncing down the rappel and causing significant rope wear/damage, you really want an adjustable friction rappel device for a drop that long.
Get the right gear, have fun, and be safe. If you have a couple shorter ropes and want to tie them together, passing the knot takes less than a minute. There's a great method using a vt prusik you could check out if you're not already familiar with it
Heading out there second weekend in may, share beta!!
Will do! Or may postpone to next week. We will see!
Sweet, planning on doing Choprock & Neon May 11-12, so if you end up going before then would appreciate any intel!!
What was your experience? We went this past weekend and it was awesome.
We had a fantastic time!! Choprock was in perfect condition water-level wise, and that rappel into the Golden Cathedral is truly epic. Dropped into ringtail as well and it was a fun addition to the trip!
Ok! Reporting back with current beta on Egypt 2!
First: we set up camp 3 miles further than the Egypt 2 trailhead, atop the mesa and had great cell phone service.
Road in is great, everything went well.
Getting almost too hot to be out there exploring. Easily drank 2.5L of water on this hike
Length: 3.57 miles. Total time: 2:33 Elevation gain 814ft
Rappelled the "+80M" cliff anchored to my pickup truck. We used about 3M of webbing to get the masterpoint over the first cliff edge, then a 70M + 40M rope. I suspect a longer rope would be needed using natural anchors if you don't have a high clearance vehicle to get to the cliff edge. At the bottom, I was still on my 70m rope and did not need to do a knot hop. Then we carried a 30m rope with us for the 3 or 4 rappels inside the canyon.
Be careful not to bounce on your rope during descent. keep it controlled. there is a crux about 25-30m from the top that absolutely munched the rope sheath down to the core with only 2 people on rappel. If we had a third, it would have been a dangerous situation waiting. We didn't discover this until the rope pull after completing the hike. If at all possible, have 2 ropes. You can skip the big rap and hike down to anchors on the other side of the ravine to the 30m rappel. After all the technical canyons, we were able to exit the canyon early and cut off a bit of the hike with class 4 scrambling up the ridge when the canyon walls slope more gently. Hiking out was beautiful, and hot. Stopped several times for breaks and to check out the ecosystem. Saw a couple rattlers under rocks, so be careful where you step.
Absolutely no water in the canyon.
Great anchors everywhere they were needed.
Try to keep your pack as thin as possible to help stemming and squeezing through the narrows.
Neon Canyon was grueling.
Length 10.63 Miles Time: to complete 9:5 Hours round trip. 1 gallon of water per person.
used a 70M rope for the cathedral, and a 30m rope for the slot canyon.
3:2 wetsuit and booties. I was still a little cold, but quickly warmed up when we got into the cathedral.
the sand makes it so much more difficult. first 3 miles in, downhill wasn't too bad. Once you're down to the Escalante, its a totally different landscape bustling with wild life. Much cooler, access to the river and I would plan to spend a night in this area next time. However, packing a heavy pack, the exit is going to be difficult with camp + climbing + canyoning gear.
Climbing above the cathedral as a really neat hike. then mild exposure stemming into the ravine, followed by great anchor points. all of the keepers were full of still water. No need for standing on shoulders or bag anchors to hand rope out.
The worst rappel inside the canyon had a sketchy downclimb into a keeper, or you could stem over it to a great anchor point that drops beyond the first keeper into water that was too deep to stand up in. We had to swim, and do the rope pull and coiling down the pool where it became shallow enough.
Water was frigid. probably 48F degrees.
saw lots of lizards, frogs, tiny fish, lots of bugs.
On the hike out, saw 1 rattle snake, a gopher snake, and a few smaller snakes, all above the Escalante river area in the rocks and sand.
If I did the hike again, I would walk up the river and avoid the last 3 miles back to the trail head this way, and then tackle all the elevation gain in the last section, but adding a couple miles to the hike.
We started around 11am-12pm and finished about 9pm as it was getting dark.
I don’t think you can rent a rope. Safety hazard, because they won’t know the condition after someone uses it.
You can go down Egypt 2 and up 3 if you really want.
Know that you have some X rated canyons if you’re tackling Egypt 4 and 5.
I also don’t recommend rapping with a grigri, as all the sand will wreck your device