Missed out on motorhead, was Lemmy a bastard or is there some context behind this?
Lots of English punks, in the movement’s infancy, knew that their parents REALLY hated Nazis (because they got bombed by them). A lot of people wore that sort of stuff to anger people, doesn’t make it cool, but they did it. Joy Division, for example, leaned waaaay too hard into it in their early days.
I also read that a lot of early biker gangs wore nazi shit because they were vets and the shit they were wearing wasn't shit they bought, but war trophies they took from dead nazis.
It wasn't "hey, we love hitler" it was "I killed nazis and now I wear their hats".
I think the expiration date on that sort of thing was sometime in 1952, though.
Yeah, but there was a period into the 70's through the early 2000'swhere a significant amount of Americans believed whe had beat the nazis nearly out of existence. It felt like the symbols could disregarded and not taken seriously since nobody of their right mind would take such a ideology so thouroghly defeated by the western forces of democracy seriously. We were all wrong of course.
To an extent this was the case. I live in Nebraska, which at one time hosted the largest supplier of Nazi propaganda, Gerard Laurk. He ended up serving time in Germany for materials he distributed there. Late 80s… early 90s, I think. All of that was before the internet of course and it was much easier to control the publication of hate speech. Not to say Nazis went away, but they were certainly much more closeted before the tangled inter web.
The word that fits here is scalps.
I mean, there's a material difference between gear and parts of a person's body.
Do you think they acquired the nazi gear by asking nicely?
Do you think that jackets, helmets, and hats are body parts?
Like, obviously, they took them from dead guys. I said that in my comment.
But there is a meaningful difference between taking a dead soldier's hat and cutting off a big chunk of his head, don't you think?
Americans do have a long tradition of scalping enemies in war, which I agree gear is not scalping, but it was common in the Pacific theater. There are multiple wiki articles on scalping if you want to go down that rabbit hole. Typically live scalping, and having the victim live was a mark of a truly skilled warrier in some circles. Arguments on whether the practice started from the colonizers or the Indians is debated online among historians, but I lean towards, "white man's fault," when push comes to shove. There are a number of individuals who survived scalping by the way, the victims of scalping sort of looks like a patchy hair transplant surgery who's goal was only removal.
No, I know that it happened. It happened in the Pacific, it probably happened in Europe, too. It happened in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. Shit, cops have done it.
All I'm saying is that the practice of WWII vetarans in biker gangs wearing captured Nazi gear isn't the same as scalping, and I don't think that's a remotely controversial opinion.
Taking trophies from war is a thing humans have always done, and it's always been kinda gross, but cutting off body parts is a whole different level, and much, much worse.
I agree, but merely wanted to remind people that: it's gross, has happened, and that the biggest motivation behind it is usually to humiliate and/or frighten people. If so many scalping victims in American history weren't described as surviving in agony for days, then people might think it was more for bragging rights than the evil sadism it truly is.
*pelts
That's the same story I tell myself about my dealer in the UK.
The American version of this was the Hells Angels. Unfortunately there leaders kinda took it to a more meta place towards the end of their more interesting times and they spewed a bunch of hate. Highly recommend the HST book on them if you haven’t read it. Fits the theme of this thread lol.
I had to take a break from that book around the chapter where he talked about the lady that had like 50 angels run a train on her at a party. Made me fuckin gag reading it. Not at all to kinkshame, but the visuals were very visceral
He definitely did not skimp on the details. I’ve always loved his writing style but that one scared me as well😂😂
Not the easiest read, but the next to last chapter might be the most important thing he ever wrote.
My Aunt was involved with one of the guys that orchestrated the beating of Hunter Thompson in said book. I worked up the guts during one dinner or another to ask him about it. He said it was because Mr. Thompson promised them a keg of beer and never delivered. Make of that anecdote what you will.
"Goddamnit, it was a case of scotch not a keg of beer. No respect for the fucking facts these days. In any event, my attorney...who is indisposed at the moment, shall produce a correction on the matter as soon as he returns from his fishing trip..."
IIRC the name Joy Division has nazi connotations as well. Not in a supportive way, just like you said, kinda just being deviant.
Joy division means "Freudenabteilung" in German. Those were brothels in the nazi concentration camps where female inmates were forced into prostitution (and into having abortions/being sterilized). Visiting the brothels was meant as a "premium" for "hard-working inmates".
And then came New Order........ Bernard Sumner has played guitar with a confederate flag sticker before. Just awful on awful. Hooky would never do that.
Dear Peter is one of the very grumpiest of bassist but he is very obviously a reluctant teddy bear no matter how he tries to hide it.
Whoa. Mind blown. Had no idea.
Holy shit TIL...
Yup. Did a project where I researched punk history for a class once, and as much as people like to paint it as some ideologically pure leftist genre, tons of the early acts that defined the aesthetic were very into surface-level, borderline-reactionary personal politics.
It wasn’t until a few years after the establishment of “punk” as a genre that the more political strain really solidified. Go listen to early punk songs, and you’ll find just as many (if not more) of them are about getting in street fights and doing hard drugs as they are about being radically anti-fascist or anti-establishment.
If you're gonna be anti establishment, you gotta start by being anti ALL the establishment. I guess if it makes shitty edgelord stuff, it also makes the Slits, so y'know 8/10 punk. Solid B.
I’m not saying they’re against the establishment, I’m saying that they have songs about, like, killing people for drug money.
When Rage Against The Machine says “fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me”, it’s directed at the government. In most early punk acts, it would probably be directed at some random dude in the crowd.
Wasn't Joy Division named after forced sex slaves in ghettos and camps?
Another redditor did elucidate this for us. Sorry. I've been hit in the head a lot and I just kind of say stuff. Thank buddha for the internet.
Also Sex Pistols, even the Ramones (who were at least half Jewish) wore Swastikas as a middle finger to the establishment. It’s a bad look all around, but it’s like people who like to wear the Hammer and Sickle a generation later. Basically being edgelords.
Yeah. I remember being obsessed with the Sex Pistols when I was in High School amd that’s where I first noticed the correlation. Like, we (my friends and I, not the Sex Pistols and I) were constantly brawling with racist skinheads at shows, and I couldn’t figure it out. Fortunately, this thing called netscape navigator pointed me in the right direction. Edit for clarification
Maybe I'm just having an ESL moment but could you explain this comment? Also it's pretty cool you fought racist skinheads. Scary! But still cool
I think it's kinda like fucking with the ppl in power, which at time would have been the greatest generation maybe? In that context, I can see how wearing that shit would have been controversial at that time, not so much now.
It also should be noted that the fella who really liked putting swastikas on t-shirts and asking the bands he helped out to wear those t-shirts was Jewish. Here's an interesting article about all that written by original British punker Vivien Goldman
The Joy Division was, in fact, a Nazi sex slave organization lifted from a book.
Early American punk too. The Ramones were probably the most explicit about it, but same deal- it's not because they were neo-nazis. It's because Nazi shit was the most controversial/offensive thing they could think of.
Sadly, Siouxsie and the Banshees too. To their credit they knocked it right the fuck off, but yeah. They still did it.
So yeah Lemmy was super into Nazi memorabilia but not into Nazi ideology. In fact Lemmy really didn't have any love for Nazis, which is admittedly pretty confusing considering the early band aesthetics were 100% inspired by Nazi fashion. In my opinion it's like someone who isn't into baseball being super into baseball cards and statistics. Even if Nazi memorabilia is a far more extreme and controversial thing to collect it seems really weird but fine. I had a military history teacher who had a shitload of both Soviet and Nazi propaganda and memorabilia. There are quite a few people who like to collect that stuff, it doesn't make them a Nazi or anything just interested in history.
Also I mean... I have listened to a whole lot of Motörhead and remember exactly 0 lyrics that are pro-Nazi in any way. They have some fucked up songs too so it's not like there was no opportunity to throw some dogwhistles in there.
I think he once said "well, if the israeli army had the best looking uniforms id collect those, but they don't, do they?"
It's in that documentary about him.
He said it in a lot of interviews going back as far as I can remember. He even said he'd be one of the first up against the wall if the Nazis ever came into power.
I can understand this. I hate nazis, but I think the SS uniform is hot. Yes, this is super weird and kinda gross, I know.
Well, they were designed by Hugo Boss, so..
Manufactured(along with SA and Hitler Youth uniforms), not designed. That was done by two guys called Karl Diebisch and Walter Heck.
I always thought the helmet and the camo shelter half as a Cape was aesthetic.
I had a conversation with an internet stranger years ago who told me that she had a think for asshole conservative guys, and she and her boyfriend would do some role play with that. I was going through some personal struggles with sexuality at the time and thought her story was oddly wholesome. Anyway, your comment just reminded me of that story so I thought I’d share. 😊
Lemmy wasn’t a bastard at all. Theres just no way. Literally every single time I’ve ever heard ANYONE talk about the dude they’ve been NOTHING but positive.
Dave Grohl said Lemmy was the only person in the entire entertainment industry that was more concerned that Dave had lost a friend than the leader of his band when Kurt killed himself.
He hated the Nazis. There’s some quote I can’t find where’s he’s saying something about how people have to confront assholes all the time because if everyone wusses out THAT is how you end up with dude’s like Hitler. I’m paraphrasing TREMENDOUSLY but the underlying gist BEHIND his quote was CLEARLY that Nazism was horrible.
And there’s a great video where he gets really heartfelt for a black kid being bullied for liking metal. Just check it out. You can’t know that the dude despised Hitler, was really touching and heartfelt with Dave, and then watch him break it down for this black kid and think he was an asshole.
Like, Lemmy was such a good dude that he once complained about all the different rock stars pushing their dicks out in front of you all the time because he wanted us all to remember that not everyone wants to see your dick. And this was in the height of hair metal when EVERYONE was shoving their dicks around.
Definitely a class act that guy.
Also spent most of his time in a very public bar sitting playing a card machine or whatever it was, did a fuckton of drugs, but didnt want anyone else to do it, just didnt have it in him to quit and had the attitude that if the drugs killed him, so be it.
Came here to post this video. Straight from the man himself:
Murderabilia is similar here. It's definitely a weird area. I'm a huge true crime listener and that always divides people when they collect like serial killer art and stuff
Upvoted just to knock you off of 88 count
He seemed to have his head screwed on OK...
Class clip, I think he used to Roadie for hendrix at one stage so was OK with black people. Terrible Roadie apparently.
That's just a hilarious image to me, like Lemmy dropping Jimis guitars constantly.
"Just understand that there are always plenty of assholes." I think is how he summed it up.
Nuance? On Reddit?? Understanding that humans are complicated creatures??? Bro you on the wrong forum. Although I feel that this particular sub won't immediately paint someone as X or Y.
The Clash started as a band called The London SS
Lemmy was very open about his collection, and started it in the 70s based, according to him, purely on someone giving him an SS knife, him looking into the war, and then thinking the uniforns looked good. He has regularly and routinely decried the tenants of Nazis, both in his personal and professional life, in both word and deed. I have come across countless discussions from other people about his collection, but not one even slightly credible report of anything even remote to Nazi sympathies.
The only thing I can suggest is that he grew up in post ww2 Britain, which had a very peculiar attitude towards such things and meant he was able to separate the pure aesthetics of the nazis from everything they stood for. He would have been surrounded by war "Trophies" from the people who fought in it, and he had a very complex relationship with them due to his dad.
Sounds like he was as “in to” Nazi shit as my great grandpa. He was in a unit (84th Infantry) that I guess liberated a couple of the camps between Belgium and Germany and apparently he is visible in a photo currently at the site. My parents visited one of the sites while they were touring the area a few years back and were blown away to see great grandpa’s picture.
He had a few bits of Nazi paraphernalia in his collection- I remember some pins and maybe an armband but it’s been decades since he passed and that was the last time we looked through his things.
I can assure you that Great Grandpa was decidedly and absolutely NOT sympathetic to their cause.
Anyway, just an interesting tidbit.
My grandpa had a Nazi collection. It was all the shit he looted from their corpses, like armbands and cigarette lighters and helmets with the bullet hole he created.
I’m imagining a trophy room like in Ace Ventura… walls covered in taxidermied Nazi noggins.
What a delight.
Nice.
Did he have Hitler's canoe?
Naaah... That's in my attic. Along with Mussolini's badminton racquet
Dick Jett: Would a racist... own this? (pulls out a Nazi swastika flag) Berlin, '45. Stabbed a Kraut officer right in the testicles. Ripped it out of his hands and then put two in his chest. God, that was the best summer of my life. (frozen 50's Man)
Fuck yeah Atun Shei.
My grandfather had some of those armbands, plus a Luger and a gigantic flag he took from Nuremberg. Great collection, but I would not have wanted to go through what he did to collect it.
As any nazi memorabilia collection should be acquired.
Exactly. If you didn’t collect your Nazi memorabilia by brutally murdering a Waffen-SS unit in the Ardennes, you don’t deserve to have it.
My grandfather had the same kind of collection, except it was all Japanese stuff that he "acquired" during his time in the Pacific. A few pins, and a knife.
My best friend has a Japanese flag which was flying at the airstrip on Iwo Jima because his grandfather "liberated it". His grandfather was a super interesting dude, and looking back at the few times I met him I am genuinely amazed that he survived his time in the Marines. He was one of the dudes with a flamethrower.
did your grandfather kill fitty men?
Goddamnit Cotton!
Did they steal his shins? Are you a pump jockey workin' for tips?!
That’s how the iron cross, German helmets and even the ss logo got engrained in American biker culture. Vets came back and started motorcycle clubs, they then started wearing their war trophies as bragging rights of having actually been a part of “the big show” as it were. Due to this a LOT of nazi imagery and symbols got associated with the rebel biker aesthetic which Lemmy seems to borrow heavily from.
This is also the line that leads to the still very active culture of "battle jackets", most patch jackets are pretty abstracted from the original iterations but it started there. Soldiers (pilots in particular) would adorn their jackets, it bled into biker culture, which in turn influenced hard rock & metal fashion.
It's the only explanation I can offer, because after I found out it was a thing I hunted for a hint of anything nazi and could find nothing. Just people going "Yeah... that's fucking weird"
My grandpa had a late war Nazi rifle that had a stock made from packing crates because they were running out of materials and supplies.
He had it because he shot the son of a bitch that pointed it at him when he rolled a tank up to Aushwitz.
I feel guilty about this kind of thing. I think I was probably a pre-teen in a very unique memorabilia shop in Gettysburg PA and, once you got outside of the initial and expected Civil War relics and touristy stuff, I was flabbergasted by the pieces of American war displayed there. It was like being in an eclectic military museum, but everything was for sale.
They had this fuckin decommissioned gatling fun from Vietnam that you could buy for only several thousand dollars!
I do not remember what this place was called, I wish I could, because I’ve visited there since then. I swear I found the building I remembered and it was a totally different gift shop - not sure if the place went under or if I just didn’t find the right place again. (If it went under, I shudder to think what happened to their remaining inventory/armory).
I browsed the defunct weapons and propaganda materials and ended up buying a 1933 political button supporting a particular nationalist socialist party of Germany at that time. But I only bought it because I found it an interesting piece of history, and it was one of the only things that I as a 12 year-old could buy there for under $30.
I’ve lost track of it since then. I’m sure my previous possession of it will one day be used against me in a court of law.
I bought a WW2 German helmet from a surplus store when I was in middle school.
I was disappointed my buddy snagged the gas mask because that was way cooler.
No idea where it is, but, yeah, I’m sure it will come back to haunt me in my future political career.
He has regularly and routinely decried the tenants of Nazis
Why was he so hard on them? It's not their fault their landlords were nazis.
Bad tum tiss!
Well done!
BTW- if any of you do have any references to claims against him then please let me know. I've been following the band for 30+ years and not seen anything, but if it exists it needs to be looked at and addressed.
OG Punks, particularly in the UK, also began toying with Nazi stuff, because it pissed people off. That's how it got into the hardcore scene in the US.
And the thing there is that eventually all that pissing people off with Nazi stuff led to Nazis discovering some part of a new neo-Nazi culture through punk rock and heavy metal.
It's the same with US based biker gangs.
Was going to say this. Swastikas were more of an edge lord thing for a while. Simpler times when they were just used to offend the olds. Times when it could be assumed only a few people were that far gone that they actually believed the nazi vision.
One of the things I hate about the Nazis is not just the atrocities they committed and the terrible legacy they created but the fact that the fuckers had the gal to look badass while being some of the worst fuckers in human history.
Britan was odd about the Nazis and Hitler. There are clips of John Lennon giving nazi salutes from a balcony and Hitler in some of his early drawings. It hits different if you lived through him bombing your hometown I suppose.
David Bowie as well.It seems like Nazi paraphernalia/ shit was pretty popular in counter culture circles in North America and the U.K. 70s and 80s.
People forget how much people used nazi imagery in early alternative music all the way through the late 80s. Main one that comes to mind is punk, like the Sex pistols just wore swastikas without being literal nazis(they were shitheads I know). Favorite example were the Ramones who had songs like "today your love tommorow the world", literally singing "I'm a nazi Shatzi I'm a Nazi yes I am, im a nazi babe and I fight for the fatherland", half of the Ramones were jewish and were managed by a jewish guy who oversaw that release, that song was written be dee dee Ramone who grew up selling Nazi paraphernalia in bombed put Germany cuz his parents were military and that was the closest thing he had to a childhood.
To say it's complicated is an understatement, but long story short; alot of these guys were obsessed with the war, or fucking sick of hearing about it, no matter what it was just inextricably part of their lives. So when they expressed themselves personally or as artists, either way it usually made people mad cuz nazis and their imagery tend to do that. But context is always important and sometimes fascinating, tho sometimes it's just actual nazis/shitheads. Dee Dee Ramone and Lemmy are two examples of the interesting and thankfully NOT Nazis column.
That sounds about right from what I know, which isn't much. Jimmy Page also went through a Nazi phase. I think it was just bring in Britain at a certain time.
Bowie had a Nazi phase
To be fair, Bowie’s nazi phase was a result of him losing his mind from living on a diet of cocaine, speed, and milk.
That's best bad reason to have a Nazi phase I've ever heard 👌😁😃
To be fair, Bowie’s nazi phase was a result of him losing his mind from living on a diet of cocaine, speed, and milk.
....and Kabbalah. Station to Station is one of my favorites tracks ands it's from this specific era.
"Here are we,
one magical movement,
from Kether to Malkhuth..
There are you,
you drive like a demon,
from station to station.
The return of the Thin White Duke....
...It's not the side-effects of the cocaine,
I'm thinking that it must be love,
It's too late - to be grateful,
It's too late - to be late again,
It's too late - to be hateful,
The european cannon is here...."
Don’t forget the peppers!
I mean, Nazis were super into milk and speed.
And capsicum apparently!
Well... Robert did do an episode about that gambling lord who also went through a Nazi phase, too. Only for him he seemed to be actually into the ideas of being a Nazi and wasn't doing it to piss people off.
So I am Jewish from the US but have been living in Wales for the past 8 year. Where I live there is an antique shop run by an elderly gentleman that has a whole bunch of memorabilia not just from ww2 but also some French legionary stuff and Rhodesia stuff. Also there was a version of Mein Kamphf. So I kind of get it but it still makes me weary.
Wary*
It seems weird to us now but the memorabilia from North Rhodesia and South Rhodesia, South Africa, the Bechuanaland Protectorate, Kenya, and Uganda makes sense when you realize many of those places were British Colonies in some cases into nearly the 1970s.
I'm not particularly old and I've encountered people in rural England who will tell you they're from Rhodesia, it do be that way
I'm always wary of that kind of stuff because those places never have old Soviet stuff. Only Nazi stuff for some reason
Especially when you consider that Britain in the Early 20th Century was just to the Left of Fascism and had movements like BUF, some Protestant and some Catholic paramilitary forces in Ireland that were Clerical Fascists as well that exerted pressure on Britain to side with the German Empire in WWI and then the Nazi government in WWII. Just look at English treatment of its colonies in the severe oppression that happened during multiple bush, wars, and colonial uprisings.
According to him it seems his views on politics were in the Anarchist and/ or Left Libertarian area. Lemmy is on record in multiple interviews denouncing Nazism, and the colonial style of White Supremacy he grew up in. Lemmy was known for working with and helping non white musicians with their career at a time when Eric Clapton style openly racist dudes weren’t uncommon in the UK, US, or Canada. Again a complicated
From everything I’ve read and seen it seems like SS aesthetics, but from everything I’ve read is pretty anti-racisr and anti-fascist especially for a dude who was in a family that went through a divorce at that time and being the son of a former RAF Chaplain.
Given how often he palled around with Scott Ian, I’d say he wasn’t a Nazi.
The “Jailbait” song, though… 😬
The “Jailbait” song, though…
You haven't seen the Spotify playlist of classic rock songs glorifying underage girls, I take it?
Oh, I know there’s more…
Still cringe at best and fucked up at worst.
If you have it on hand pass it over so I can be even more disappointed in classic bands
I don't have it on hand, but also I wouldn't ask you to hate these bands for the lyric in one song.
Without endorsing sex with minors I'd point out that 1) these songs were primarily marketed to a youth demographic who respond well to seeing themselves in the music they listen to, 2) and that fifty years ago conceptions of age and appropriateness were different.
But then you do get things like Bowie, Steven Tyler, and others literally having sex with 14yos (they claim they girl lied, they didn't know, whatever).
I’m a huge Deadhead but…
“So instead I've got a bottle and a girl who's just fourteen
And a damn good case of the Mexicali Blues Yeh Is there anything a man don't stand to lose
When the devil wants to take it all away? Cherish well your thoughts, and keep a tight grip on your booze
'Cause thinkin' and drinkin' are all I have today”
“Mexicali Blues” by The Grateful Dead
😬
Seeing as it came off of Ace, I’ll put this one squarely on Bobby.
Add Zeppelin, Nugent and from earlier in the 40s and 50s Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry
You think that's bad, Jimmy Page actually had a 13 year old groupie he kidnapped and brought with him on tour.
Not to mention literally any and every band in the 70s and 80s had a song about banging underage girls.
So many Silent Gen and Boomer bands though… wtf!?!
I could be wrong but I thought that song was written to be ironic, as he had known guys who'd been arrested for messing around with underage girls backstage and all.
Cool dude that liked Nazi shit. But would be the first mother fucker to punch a Nazi. Also he was great Brutal Legend
Brutal legends is a lost gem
He's only 49% Motherfucker, and 51% Son of a Bitch.
Once I was in a sporting goods store (in Canada). I was wearing a t shirt from a knife store. They wrote their name in Motörhead logo style.
An employee came up to me, a girthy old fella, and explained that Lemmy would sue me mercilessly for my choices. I am still waiting on the lawsuit.
Lemmy wouldn’t give a shit.
That’s the most Lemmy response I’ve seen on this thread and I love it.
One thing you don’t see in here is his book collection. Dude was known for reading and knowing a lot about the war. Motörhead albums usually had at least one song on them about war as a concept, including the very anti-war song 1916.
So no, he isn’t.
I'm glad I listen to unproblematic artists like gg allin and anal cunt
I only heard "Picnic of Love" but I really enjoyed the positive message, respectful tone and soothing melodies, what album should I check out next?
He might have been a bastard when he was editor of the school magazine.
Lemmy was not a bastard.
He was a bastard, just not that kind of bastard... 😁
This person gets it
He fucked my mum! and I can't even be mad about it!
Do you have any idea how little that narrows down who your mother is!?
He was 49% motherfucker, 51% Son of a Bitch
He did play a Rickenbastard though.
Not this again. The man collected Nazi shit 'cause he liked the look. As a person he railed against Nazis several times. This topic has been done over and over again.
"Would you have any of the allied memorabilia, father...?"
"Nono, I don't go in for that sort of thing "
You put cyanide next to the Valium, that's asking for trouble
He was a WWII nerd for sure, and was of the opinion (like many WWII and militaria enthusiasts) that the Nazi’s had some sweet gear. Can’t say I’ve ever seen evidence of bastardry from Lemmy, though. Problematic at times, perhaps, but I don’t think you can find a rockstar from the 70s-80s who wasn’t.
for example the FG42.
No shit its a pretty impressive gun for it's time
I know exactly everything about this gun. pretty impressive indeed.
I have it on good authority that he's 49% Motherfucker, 51% Son of a Bitch (great documentary!)
Also there's plenty of people who ask him about this and here's a blabbermouth article saying 'I just collect the stuff, I don't collect the ideas'
Without defending him in any way, I recall Lemmy saying "the bad guys have the coolest shit".
There's so much going on here but I think an underrated aspect of the Nazis was how well they captured the imagination of adolescent males during and long after their reign. Even though most, like Lemmy, would never endorse fascist rhetoric many more were still captivated by the skulls, the leather boots, the cool guns and tanks. Even George Lucas was influenced by those aesthetics in the creation of his evil Empire in Star Wars. And who amongst us hadn't had the thought, "the bad guys just look cooler".
I have no point to any of this, maybe that a key factor in the success of fascism is appealing to the interest of young men?
Heck, in Star Wars fandom there’s a reason that most of the cosplayers usually go to the villains.
Stormtroopers, Boba Fett, and Darth Vader just look so much cooler than the rebel versions.
I’m drawn to the bad guys in everything BUT Star Wars.. die hard rebel scum when it comes to that world!
But yeah, bad guys everywhere else. I think the empire is just too relatable to get behind lol
Joker and Harley Quinn cosplayers…
He roadied for Jimi Hendrix from 68-70. I don’t think he would have accepted, nor stuck with, having a position subservient to a black man if he was a racist. Also Jimi, a staunch believer in black rights and equality would have never trusted a racist to oversee the maintenance and transportation of his guitars and amplifiers. Later on, his first band (Hawkwind) was decidedly more hippy and flower power than say Sabbath or Priest who were his contemporaries. Motörhead was definitely an opposite direction from that, but iirc, never had lyrics hateful towards any one group.
Also, his last long term romantic partner before he died was a black woman, one of many that he dated throughout his life. I know that’s not the best indicator of racism, but it’s also not nothing.
I think the swastika here is a gift from one of his fans, some of which are definitively bastards: meth dealers, bikers and many other general forms of fuckup. The only Nazi imagery I’ve found in their merch was using the WW1 spiked pith helmet. It’s definitely a German war symbol, but decidedly not a Nazi one.
I’ve seen him a few times live and not once did he say anything bastardly or (AFAIK) have any Nazi adjacent lyrics in any of his music. I think that at the time, other metal bands were leaning in to the satanic imagery for marketing to the perceived rebellion of their fanbase. Lemmy went with some slightly nazi adjacent imagery so as to be different, but do the same thing: Piss off the old people.
WHO WOULD WIN IN A FIGHT LEMMY OR GOD?
Trick question, Lemmy IS god!
Absolutely not a bastard. Lemmy was a world war 2 buff who made fun of people who thought he was a Nazi
I had the pleasure to meet Lemmy couple of years prior to his passing. He was a gentleman to my spouse and myself when we had the chance to hang on the band’s tour bus.
My best friend was road manager for the band. My friend told me that Lemmy was so smart and literate. So open minded and progressive. Just did not speak his political views.
He also told me that the fans knew about Lemmy’s collection and they would bring all kinds of Nazi memorabilia in the meets and greets or that people would wait outside the tour bus or hotel just to give him the gift. Every tour he would get so much shit from the fans that at times when they cross border some red flags were raised by custom officers. Apparently there was always a metal head on the customs crew that would have to tell the others, “it’s cool, it’s Lemmy.”
Lemmy would not judge you by the color of your skin, nationality nor religions views or beliefs. Though, he would question your taste in music.
(He was not racist. He was Hendrix roady and his girlfriend was a women of color)
Lemme was born around the end of ww2 and was fascinated with war memorabilia... he was a collector not a fan
You can find something fascinating without endorsing it. Look at how many people have pictures or t shirts of serial killers etc.
I don’t agree with it, but just pointing out it’s not as direct a link as it may seem.
Also I can smell this picture. Yeast, cigs and gunpowder
One could credibly argue that Lemmy was kind of an old school lefty. Very pro working class/anti capital. Also a very complicated guy. Ultimately an OG post-hippy speed freak rock n roll maniac road dog party animal. Motörhead is one of the most important bands in rock n roll and (somehow) still underrated.
From what I’ve heard from other people talking about him, Lemmy was into Nazis in the way true crime enthusiasts are into serial killers.
Lemmy could do as he pleased. He’d probably flick a cig at you and then go back to playing bar trivia.
Your comment made me laugh.. I saw Motörhead play Glasgow's Barrowland about 30 odd years ago and Lemmy flicked a cig into the audience as they came back out for an encore.. as folk tried to grab for it he said "don't touch that, it's got cancer on it"
All I remember bout this guy is he was interviewed on the Jason Ellis show and admitted to getting a 15 year old pregnant and I think paying for the abortion too.
Mixed bag I’ll say
Opposite of a bastard.
Well, he did originally want to call his band 'Bastard'.
From what I've heard and read about him, he wouldn't give two fucks what people thought of him.
Yeah, he collected Nazi stuff. I wouldn't necessarily say that makes you a Nazi. Some people collect stamps, Doesn't make them a letter.
He did some fucked up shit, but nothing that would put him ahead of anyone else of the time.
Lemmy is actually allowed to be a Nazi and you still have to like him. Sorry, I don’t make the rules.
Lemmy was definitely a bastard, but that's why we loved him.
Lemmy was an anti bastard.
No, def an individual of their time but a good dude. That said Motorhead and Slayer fall in this camp of non-fascist bands that fascist tend to love, arguably Motorhead is a dogwhistle among neo-nazis who don't want to immediately disclose their fandom of RAC Oi! and NSBM bands.
Lemmy collected German military regalia; he had an Iron Cross emblazoned on his bass, which led to accusations of Nazi sympathies. He stated that he collected Nazi memorabilia because he liked the way it looked, and he considered himself an anarchist or libertarian. He spoke against racism many times; indeed, there is a viral archival video of Lemmy consoling an aspiring 16-year-old black musician who enjoyed playing metal but was chastised by his father over it (because he considered it white man's music), and Lemmy encouraged the teen to pursue his passion despite his father's protests, vehemently denouncing Hitler and his policies on racial segregation in the process. As of February 2023, a single video of the archived recording has amassed 6.9 million views, and an excerpted Reddit post of the clip attracted more than 41,000 upvotes.
"You cannot be just one colour. If the bloody thing is ever gonna work out properly, then we all have to intermarry and screw each other blind and get to be coffee-ish."
Lemmy said he was against religion, government, and established authority. In 2011, he identified as agnostic, saying: "I can find out when I die. I can wait. I'm not in a hurry." Jeff Hanneman, the founder of the thrash metal band Slayer, befriended Lemmy due to their shared fondness for collecting Nazi memorabilia. According to Keith Emerson's autobiography, Lemmy gave him two of his Hitler Youth knives during his time as a roadie for the Nice. Emerson used these knives many times as keyholders when playing the Hammond organ during concerts with The Nice and Emerson, Lake & Palmer before destroying them. Lemmy defended his collection by saying that if his then-girlfriend (who was black) had no problem with it, nobody else should.
Also beyond the nazi shock value stuff that UK punks and even pop art musicians like David Bowie engaged in (which he regretted and apologized for) there's a whole era post-war broader German military aesthetics that were frequent in pop culture, especially Red Baron as a legend and Iron Cross iconograhy among not just bikers but in cartoons and even hot wheels toys.
He liked to collect stuff. Leave Lemmy alone.
Animal of Anti-Nowhere League talked about the culture of punks wearing Nazi shit in 70s England. It was to be shocking and to piss off their parents/grandparents.
Yeah I was going to chime in, it was kind of a weird aggro generational thing. Even someone like Siouxie Sioux would mix in Nazi imagery in her early days. The goofiest ones were the Surf Nazis.
My understanding is this is where all the “Ukrainian nazis” thing came from too
Basically, nazis beat up on the soviets. So as an anti Soviet thing they’d wear nazi imagery and swastikas. Not so much because they’re pro fasc, but rather because they’re anti-Russia.
I don't recall anything bastardly coming up in his lyrics, at least nazi or white supremacy. I think he was just your standard rich rockstar type bastard.
All rockstars are sort of bastards. It comes with the territory. One does not get to the top of the food chain without looking the other way about some pretty bad s***.
I met Lemmy once, years ago. The thing I remember most is he wore rediculously tight jeans and you could see his enormous old man testicles through his pants.
Lemmy also owned and regularly fired a panzer tank. Who amongst us has no wanted to fire a tank. Besides, Hugo Boss worked very hard to create a captivating look, and it worked. Lemmy didn't give a fuck about anything except having a good time, that's probably why we lost him so relatively young.
Dude was 70. That’s hardly young. Especially considering hard he lived.
Clearly says behind him "old bastard"
He said at one point "just because I have interest in the history of that era don't mistake me as a fan" or something to that effect.
We can argue that numerous of us around here are Lemmy without the memorabilia and some have an unhealthy obsession with the nazis.
Unfortunately, I'm not really sure why he owned a lava lamp.
You’re unsure about why a member of Hawkwind, Captain Lockheed and the Starfighters, Opal Butterfly, and Sam Gopal owns a lava lamp?
As everyone has mentioned, it was edgelord shit and was possible for a while to denounce the nazis while collecting the memorabilia.
Unfortunately, fascism doesn’t understand sarcasm and so real life nazis joined the punk scene. Skin Heads Against Racist Punks (? think that’s right: SHARP) in the UK and Dead Kennedys in Cali (Nazi Punks, Fuck Off) fought this head-on and had to be mind-numbingly explicit about messages
No Dogs In Space has great history series on Dead Kennedys and Joy División that cover a lot of this
Nah, some people collect strange shit.
Lemmy was one of these guys that present themselves as Just A Nazi Memorabilia Collector. He vehemently denied having Nazi tendencies. I myself will reserve judgment on this.
Especially in the post ww2 era of the UK, it can be easy counter-cultural iconography as well as old ww2 stuff would not be hard to get.
As far as individual collecting, unless there is anything written by or about it it can be just collecting, just awkward as the time and context changes.
Somewhat unrelated if you want bastards in the music industry I highly recommend Disgraceland and its other associated podcasts (think cool zone media)
I thought you were referring to him pointing a gun at the cameraman lol didn’t even notice all the nazi shit until I turned to the comments
I remember seeing a tour of his house and he had a huuuuuge wall of hakenkreuz and right at the veeery top was a union flag. If I remember correctly 'to remind the bastards who won'.
Reading through the comments I've learned that you absolutely cannot half ass a Nazi collection
Punk and metal in the late 70's/early 80-s used nazi iconography as a tongue in cheek fuck you to all forms of censorship. See DK and Crass albums for an example. Poor taste? Yeah. Actual adherence? Likely none
I mean you gotta take the time into context. Older dudes just wore their shirts like that.
Lemmy: 49% Motherfucker, 51% Son of a Bitch. https://youtu.be/jSRS-LbuaUw?si=OnUCt1jYVVwWFvjF
Sid Vicious wore a swaztika shirt just to piss people off.
Lemmy was a collector of Nazi memorabilia. So was Jeff Hahnemann from Slayer. Idk if either of them were neonazis.
A lot of people are obsessed with that period of history, myself included.
There was a time when Nazi memorabilia was treated like trophies of a conquered enemy, commemorating what people saw as a noble war to defeat evil. So those flags and knives and signed copies of Mein Kampf were totems of evil, stripped of their power by military defeat and reduced to decorations.
Post-war generations didn’t have the same connection to those symbols, to them they were just representations of evil. Heavy metal, being iconoclastic by nature, did some of the same performative display of Nazi imagery, but for the purpose of shocking the previous generation.
You see this most clearly in Norwegian black metal, amplified by Norway’s occupation by Germany during the war and the numerous collaborators during that time. So aside from being symbols of evil, it was a way to throw a particularly dark period in Norwegian history back in people’s faces. Of course, more than a few of the luminaries of black metal had more than an ironic interest in the tenets of National Socialism.
The danger of ironic appropriation is always that it will becom unironic.
I mean, he's got a lava lamp. He can't be that bad?!?
Worse yet, the finger is on the trigger.
People with better eyes might be able to tell if the cylinders visible are loaded
Dude just was a niche collector. I think he wasn’t fond of actual nazis but only their aesthetics and you gotta admit the Nazis dressed metal as fuck but were total bastards.
"If the Israeli Defence Forces had uniforms made by Hugo Boss, I'd collect them, but they don't."
As a kid we used to go up to a cabin on a lake in Northern Idaho, this would be back in the 90s.
There was a flea market south of Sandpoint that had all sorts of cool shit. Some guy there sold me a speargun when I was 14 with no questions asked. But the coolest stuff was all the WW2 memorabilia. They had helmets and daggers, rifles, pistols, pins and bayonets, one of which I bought because knives are rad and it was a foot long knife.
It was a few years later that it clicked... Pretty much all the WW2 stuff was German. I thought it was cool because I grew up on the history channel basically being the WW2 channel and had grandparents that fought in the war. They thought it was cool because it was Nazi stuff. I realized there was a reason the guys kept a second case of stuff under the table that wasn't for public view, even they realized some people in Northern Idaho might not be cool with overt Nazis selling Nazi stuff.
Sometimes people collect historical stuff like that because it looks cool and it's historical, sometimes people do it because of what it signifies. I feel like Lemmy is the former.
It's nice we don't apply the same purity tests to older music as we do to modern politicians isn't it, we'd simply have nothing to listen to.
Lemmy was a complicated dude. This stuff didn’t jump off the screen at you in the 90s the same way it does today. He seemed like the kind of guy who would do deviant shit just because it bothered people around him. It’s a terrible look regardless, but he liked it that way