www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/29/daniel-linden-shirion-collective-pro-israel-palestine-hate
Revealed: the tech entrepreneur behind a pro-IDF hate network
empleadoEstatalBot
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Hell, they're basically moderating /r/worldnews at this point. And Reddit gives negative two shits.
And once they become aware of this thread they'll start aggressively reporting it to get it removed
Reminds me of when Ghislaine Maxwell was a super mod of many major subreddits including worldnews.
And she still is, image that they won't even remove her after everything
True true. They are still pretending it was a guy from Malaysia that while previously being one of the most prolific Redditors for over a decade, coincidentally stopped using Reddit at the same time she was arrested. While also having her actual surname in their username.
Not only her last name. She grew up in a mansion in Oxfordshire called Hill Hall. The name is a portmanteau of her last name and her childhood home lol. It couldn’t be more obvious.
Also modderating r/news. You can get banned just for commenting on an article that’s critical of Israel.
Yeah, got perma banned for making a bunch of comments on an anti Israel thread. Moderators didn’t specify which rule I’d broken and blocked me when I asked
I earned a ban when I commented on a article that had been taken down a few times already with “let’s see how long this one is up” then when I tried to appeal that ban the mods responded with “learn to read troll”.
Yea, they constantly remove critical news about Israel or the pro-Israel lobby.
r/News and r/Politics both banned me around October/November for suggesting Palestinians are human. It's wild to see that Pol has become a bit more realistic about the nuances of the conflict, but the mod team didn't even respond to my messages when I tried to appeal the ban.
Hey, almost exactly the same, only I made a single comment and not a bunch. I replied to someone pointing out the logic of their argument didn't actually support their claim, but the one of the person they were arguing with, and asked why bother writing if that's all you're doing. Banned within minutes, ignored when asked why, muted when asked a second time.
Mods used to hand out 7 and 30 day bans. Now they insta perma ban you, and mute you when you ask why you got banned.
Yeah it caught me off guard because I’d never even gotten a warning from that sub before. Then suddenly boom permaban
Same here….
Ah, explains my recent perma lmao
Can you elaborate? I thought rNews was slightly better than rWorldnews?
No it was at the start but more recently has gone downhill. They take down any article critical of Israel and start handing out bans to anyone who is not rushing to Israel’s defense.
Basically? Worldnews has been a full on propaganda wing of the Israeli government since the conflict and probably before
I once checked the mods of r/worldnews; interestingly enough, all have posted "liberal news" on respective subs, including geopolitics, Defense, etc.
One was a literal spokesperson of LPC of Canada lmao.
Plenty of liberals support mass murder, so long as it's on the "right" side of a dotted line.
I was just enjoying a post on r/Europe about "data for LGBT amongst different generations", sort by controversial and keep your popcorn ready.
Liberals are suggesting the same fascism ideas that they seem to oppose, "conversion therapy" for stop the increase of "far right" ideologies, it's really hilarious, that horseshoe theory seems to apply lol.
Depends what this looks like but you could also just be conflating trying to teach people to think critically, showing how right wing authoritarian political arguments and history are harmful to humanity as "reeducation" in the modern Chinese sense. Like idk if you're.making a false equivalency or if the mechanism of this so called reeducation by liberals is the same.
This article got posted yesterday on worldnews then removed for being a featured story. Articles that highlight human rights abuses get hidden or removed for banal reasons. After I posted my third news link about the humanitarian situation there I got banned for trolling.
For some reason you can’t put the word banned in the name of a subreddit.
Looking at the state of worldnews, you'd think that the admins must also be in on it. They must know what's going on, so what's the reason they do nothing?
Probably linked into the ex CIA Larry Ellison's Grapeshot and the GDI https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Disinformation_Index sniffing out 'adversarial narratives'. I would guess the reddit power mods are involved.
Not according to the article
Seems like they're about doxxing protesters
You're right, the kind of people who dox protestors for their political views draw the line at doxxing, and would never consider taking their activism to online communities 🤡
You think they stopped there? Or maybe you're one of them.
Like the hundreds of accounts Meta removed for being fake propaganda accounts. https://www.democracynow.org/2024/5/30/headlines/meta_removes_hundreds_of_fake_accounts_set_up_by_israeli_firm
Last I checked Facebook wasn't reddit, thank Sagan
I know you are not actually making this "argument" in earnest, or maybe the cognitive dissonance really is making you think that somehow the propaganda team would just use every other media source and skip reddit, because that somehow makes sense to you.
I'm asking for evidence that these people are active here. That was the claim. Do you have that evidence?
Logic should be evidence enough. There is no reason there would not be propaganda accounts, its too easy to do.
Okay
Logic says you're a propaganda account
You are the evidence
Lmao who is paying me and when do I get the check
useful idiots don't get paid.
😂
amazing you even manage to read and write.
^ Here we see an example.
🤡🤡🤡
Any post that uses 'Israel' or 'Palestine' is subject to bot farms because they use those keywords to direct their bots(or bilingual college student troll army).
Also, don't discount the intense propaganda that the Western media, especially the US media, uses to veil the truth behind this entire conflict.
Just look at the numbers: https://time.com/6559293/morning-consult-israel-global-opinion/
The fact that the USA is the only country out of those listed where Israel remained positively viewed just goes to show how much overtime our media has been putting in to manufacture our consent.
Makes sense, if they lose control of the conversation in the US, there is a very good chance the US paying them billions of dollars to buy weapons that are used to kill children might come into question, which is illegal under US law.
Same for any threads mentioning Ukraine and Russia. Especially after October 8 th.
The fact that the USA is the only country out of those listed where Israel remained positively viewed just goes to show how much overtime our media has been putting in to manufacture our consent.
I mean, not necessarily. Relations between the US and Israel have been different from the rest of the west for a long while now. The idea of something akin to AIPAC would be unacceptable for many European countries.
The starting point was very different, so it's not really a given that it's a result of manipulating current events.
And what is the truth behind this entire conflict?
r/worldnews and r/NonCredibleDefence IDF echo chambers
CF also has mods and a lot of prolific users currently serving in IDF.
God I miss old NCD
Every sub is an echo chamber
No shit. As if this sub isn't, as well?
How many trolls from said network are in this very comment section?
I'm right here, but I'm not getting paid.
Fr like you’re telling me I could’ve gotten money for arguing politics online?
where can i sign up?
It's pretty obvious who some of them are, because they're completely ignoring the topic and trying to derail the thread with the standard set of talking points.
YES BUT WHAT ABOUT THESE UNRELATED PALESTINIAN ATROCITIES COMMITED AGAINST ISRAEL. YOU ARE CLEARLY SUPPORTING TERRORISTS.
/S
You gotta see 9gag with this shit. It's quite some time (even before Oct 7) that it has turned into a fascist cesspool.
that site has been shite for a decade now.
9gag is a lost cause. Their politics aside, everything over there is repost from here and Instagram
Real questions is why does my friend who uses it always bring up "Jewish conspiracy, and Nazis" and how do I stop him without "just jokes"
It's amazing that the US has allowed itself to be captured. The government and press obviously. But the CIA, NSA, FBI, Homeland Security, the Treasury, Pentagon, etc.
Nobody is repelling another country's takeover.
When your government can be legally bought, it's only a matter of time before a foreign government buys it. And with enough propaganda the American public is all for it too.
Hell, AIPAC was just openly bragging about it on Twitter
Home Depot and Qatar donates more than AIPAC.
Let's not even mention the hedge funds which donate the most. Let's just focus on the myth that is the Jewish capture of our government. Everyone acting like the capture of our government is solely by Jews. Ofc they'd be the typical scapegoat. It's hilarious how shallow this is. Not to mention it's not like wealthy Jewish Americans don't have other causes. What's his name who died recently, the casino guy, biggest individual pro Israel Republican donor, has business interests inside and outside the US--its not like he was a single issue donor without private interests.
I am shocked ...... SHOCKED
/S
What sucks about this is that it means that anyone who writes a nuanced pro-Israel comment gets immediately dismissed as a paid shill for these assholes or Hasbara.
nuanced like saying if israel really wanted to kill children it would be in the hundreds of thousands instead of the 14000 children reported killed in april?
How to apply for this job please? I'm asking for a friend who needs some extra cash?
Or that the ICC rejects the idea of genocide taking place.
Israeli officials seemingly unable to go a month without publicly calling for war crimes ain't helping though.
It's actually exhausting.
Can you give me an application form? You turned up fast.
No nuanced like why hasn’t hamas accepted the multiple cease fire offers from the US if they truly care about their people?
a cease fire stating, 'we don't fight for six weeks, then we are going to kill you all'? I would not accept that either.
Hmm last I checked it was Palestine that broke the last one
Better brush up on history and the respective “truce” offers by Israel…
Or enjoy the bot facade and cherry pick the facts that suite your views…
And the one before that. And they drew first blood in the 1948 war too.
so after Jews bombed Hotel David?
1946 was decades into Arab led ethnic violence.
Ever hear of the Hebron massacre?
I even heard of Jacob Israël de Haan, but that was zionist terrorist killing Jew, so maybe it does not count, or it counts double as it shows even Jews were not save from zionist terrorists in 1924.
They were even less safe from Palistineans. Nebi Musa riots 1920
You just conflated a Jewish underground that actually warned people to get out of the hotel with the Jewish people in general. So I guess you also think the innocent Palestinians are the same as their Hamas counter parts. At least you're consistent. /S
no, I just implied that Palestinians could not draw first blood in 1948 if Jews bombed a hotel years before that.
Then why cherry pick the time line? Why not go back and start with the pre Youn Turks revolution and look at all the resentment building up within palestinian communities related to the legal settlement of Jews escaping the pograms in the area and the consequent hostilities?
Before that too, first massacres of jews started in the 20's
Because of course they dont. They're just a proxy of the shiite theocratic dictatorship centered in Iran and funded by Russia like Hezbollah.
Still Israel went about this the wrong way, knee jerk response that destroyed their standing in the global community. I hate hate BB but man he was the best pawn to use here. Any leader faced with this kind of hostage crisis is immediately out in a very hard spot with respect to how one should react, but BB is a conservative hawk, so he predictably used this as a pretext for mass destruction.
Nuanced can be something along the lines of:
1) Israel has a right to exist
2) and has a right to defend itself from future attacks
3) objective 2) cannot be completed without removing Hamas from power and preventing their ability to project hostile force into Israel
4) objective 3) cannot be completed without some level of collateral damage
5) the levels of collateral damage, while high for police action, are in fact remarkably low for urban combat, especially as compared to other western armies operating in the middle east (eg the US in Iraq).
Another nuanced view would be to be pro-Israel but anti west bank settlement/settlers.
A nuanced view is that Israel has locked millions of people in a cage, denied them education, healthcare, or any opportunity for economic advancement, killed their kids for decades, and ignored all signs of an impending attack despite supposedly having the greatest intelligence network in the world. They seriously expect us to believe that the mighty mosad completely missed an attack as coordinated as Oct 8. I think a more plausible answer is that israel has wanted to rid themselves of their palestinian neighbors since the inception of the state and they ignored a looming terrorist threat as it would give them casus belli to grab some territory.
That first sentence is completely false, Gaza has universities, hospitals, schools, restaurants, cafes etc.
There are so many atrocities committed by Israel, but let’s not pretend Gaza didn’t have all those things
Gaza had those things.
That’s a very fair statement. Ordinary Gazans deserve credit for what they were able to make for themselves despite all the blockades.
It just doesn’t make sense to criticise Israel for bombing schools, hospitals universities, and then say Israel denied them all those things in the first place
Bruh before the war 47% of Gazans were unemployed. The median Gazan is 18 years old. Living in Gaza was hell before Israel started bulldozing it.
That first sentence is completely false, Gaza has universities, hospitals, schools, restaurants, cafes etc.
Even prisons have facilities.
Here is just water,
The resulting disparity in access to water between Israelis and Palestinians is truly staggering. Water consumption by Israelis is at least four times that of Palestinians living in the OPT. Palestinians consume on average 73 litres of water a day per person, which is well below the World Health Organization’s (WHO) recommended daily minimum of 100 litres per capita. In many herding communities in the West Bank, the water consumption for thousands of Palestinians is as low as 20 litres per person a day, according to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). By contrast, an average Israeli consumes approximately 300 litres of water a day.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/
As usual with Amnesty, they didn't provide a single source for their bullshit numbers. Easy googling reveals:
According to one estimate, average domestic water consumption in Israel is 137 litres[2] per person per day on average, about half of indoor water use in the United States.[70
Water consumption in the EU countries: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1393712/drinking-water-consumption-per-capita-daily-europe/
Malta - 77
Slovakia - 79
Are these countries also occupied?
You complain about Amnesty (which I'm fine with) but then you source statista. Come on, man. Wtf?
Malta is in a unique situation.
Malta is one of the top 10 water-scarce countries in the world
Which gives some reason for their lower consumption BUT
Maltese citizens use around 110 litres a day per person
They also have the third bottled water consumption per capita in the world
Another source on Malta use of 110 liters
On average, Maltese people consume 110 litres per person per day, which is relatively low compared to other European countries.
https://gca.org/this-is-how-malta-is-building-resilience-through-effective-water-management/
In summer,
Results indicate that the average consumption for the sampled Maltese households in summer is 239.7 litres per capita per day
Well said and don’t mind the troll baiting you with statista nonsense and his next link will be Wikipedia explaining the 6 days of war as an Arabic imperial conquest.
Or khamas drinking all the water themselves
I mean you're cherry picking here. What about Slovakia? I saw 77 L per capita but that's more recent cs historic and 75% of their water is sources from outside the country. Idk if the 77 number takes that into account or not. But the point is if there are multiple examples you do have to refute all of them unfortunately.
Malta is in a unique situation.
And the Middle East isn't?
Jordan: https://file.scirp.org/Html/4-8102096_41891.htm
This amount decreases to 70 - 75 l/day when water losses are taken into consideration.
Oh wow Jordanians must be really thirsty!
Were you right on Malta or wrong on Malta, in terms of their water consumption, compared to Israel and Gaza?
That doesn’t contradict what I said. Is Gaza as developed as Israel? Of course not, I am not arguing that it is. It’s a country that is completely blockaded, that much is true. But the reality of life is far different from living in a 6x8foot cell.
Pre-war Gaza had a HDI of .699, which is around the same as Morocco and higher than every country in Sub-Saharan Africa bar South Africa and Botswana. Higher than India, which is becoming a major global power.
That’s not to say life is easy, or that they should accept the current status quo. But saying Israel stops them having education and healthcare etc just isn’t true. Can’t have Israel killing doctors, journalists, bombing schools and hospitals if none of these exist. It can’t be both
You do understand that the lack of water isn’t due to lack of infrastructure but because of Israeli policies that prevent them from getting that water? Like did you know it’s illegal to collect rain water if you are a Palestinian? As rain fall on Palestinian land is considered the property of Israel?
People are weird. I state that Gazans did indeed have education and healthcare and I’m getting replies that Israel controls the water supply. What does that have to do with what I said?
If you have an issue with the Human Development Index that’s fine but like.. don’t shoot the messenger I’m just saying what it is
But saying Israel stops them having education and healthcare etc just isn’t true
When people say this, they know what it means.
People in prison get education.
People in prison get healthcare.
Even in concentration camps there were facilities such as theaters, swimming pools, sports fields, etc.
TIL Singapore is a concentration camp
Prisons have healthcare. Prisons have education. So does Gaza. We are in agreement so what point are you trying to make ?
Prisons have healthcare. Prisons have education. So does Gaza. We are in agreement
Yes
so what point are you trying to make ?
See above
Israel gave up Gaza in 2005, they don't want it back, it's a shit hole. October 7th was predicted by the Israeli intelligence services but the higher ups did not believe Hamas would follow through on the idea because of how terrible the outcome would be for them. Netanyahu was also distracted by his own political and legal problems. As you said, there are millions of people still in Gaza and Israel has no interest in occupying them or the sand they live on. Israel's primary goal is to prevent another attack from emanating from Gaza.
Hamas' policies have encouraged Gaza's population to double from 1-2 million in the last 20 years, you know, what college students these days call a "genocide." The lack of education, healthcare, and economic opportunities is largely due to over population and mismanagement. Billions of dollars of aid have flowed into Gaza and then stolen by the Hamas leadership, or diverted to weapons and tunnels. If Gazans focused on their own development instead of constantly attacking Israel they would have all the things you claim they lack. Hamas doesn't want a Palestinian state in Gaza however, it wants to destroy Israel, and an educated, well fed, medically cared for, and economically productive population is counter to that aim. Hamas greatly benefits from the masses of listless unemployed young men as recruits to throw at the meat grinder that is this conflict. They want the misery because it plays well to the international media and the aid donors. This is why Hamas is currently being destroyed, because they are ideologically incapable to making peace and will present a threat to Israel and their own people so long as they are allowed to exist.
Israel gave up Gaza in 2005, they don't want it back
They do want it. They just don't want anyone living in it.
And they're using it as an example for Palestinians in the West Bank, which they do want, since they keep moving into it.
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Palestine was offered the right to exist as an independent country by the UN in 1947, an offer the Arabs rejected. In a sense Palestine does exist, we just call it Jordan. The West Bank was occupied by Jordan for almost 20 years, and has never existed an an independent country. Did the Arabs who invaded Israel at its birth believe an independent Palestine deserved the right to exist? 20 years of occupation suggests otherwise. They were greedy and saw fit to divide up Palestine among themselves and deny the Jews a state of their own. Independence for Palestine was never in the plan for the Arabs in 1948. I use the term Arab because at this point in history the "Palestinians" as a distinct people did not yet exist, in fact many Jews would refer to themselves as Palestinians prior to 1948. The idea of an independent Arab Muslim Palestine alongside a Jewish Israel was rejected by these people when they went to war... and then lost. So do the newly minted Palestinians have a right to defend against occupation? Ask yourself, why are they being occupied? The answer is 100 years of violence directed at Jews by Arabs. Violence against Jews during the British mandate. War against Israel at its creation, and again later, and again later still. Israel conquered the West Bank to deny Jordan the ability to threaten it's major cities with artillery from the highlands there. Israel conquered the Sinai along with Gaza to prevent Egypt from invading Israel from the South. At the negotiation of peace, Egypt declined to reassume control over Gaza given how troublesome the people there were. While the occupation of these lands did prevent the Arabs from attacking Israel militarily, the local Arabs we now call Palestinians switched tactics to terrorism, again more violence.
At each turn, the Arabs have chosen violence, and again and again they have lost and failed to achieve their aims. The solution has always been a negotiated peace. The problem is, do the Arabs actually want peace with Israel? Creating an independent Palestinian state that is still sworn to the eventual destruction of Israel is not peace. The 1993 Oslo accords were never followed through on with a permanent peace agreement because the Palestinians could ever control the violence of their own people. Arafat walked away from a Palestinian state in 2000 and again doubled down on more violence in the second Intifada. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, while continuing to supply the territory with critical infrastructure such as water and electricity, and was repaid with more violence, rockets fired at civilians, kidnappings, and finally the October 7th Pogrom.
The Palestinians have a right to their own state, but not a right to unlimited violence. At some point they will admit defeat, as did Jordan and Egypt, and a lasting peace cannbe established.
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The Palestinian people need to want it though. Do they want a state of their own? Based on what borders? 1967? And will their government control the population and prevent non-state sanctioned violence from being directed against Israel?
Look around the Arab world, every country is either ruled by a monarch, a dictator, or is actively tearing itself apart. There is no Palestinian dictator to contain the violence of these people and hold up any peace agreement. Establishing a Palestinian State without negotiation will not change the facts on the ground, mainly that Israel is going to continue to prevent Palestinians from directing violence against its territory and people. So long as a subset of Palestinians reject the authority of the Palestinian state Israel will have to fight them.
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No point they are a hasbara troll
Let's take you at your word.
- For many Israel has forfeited its right to exist. Because of the atrocities and apartheid over decades
- Israel defends like the US by preemptively attacking perpetually and occupying another state whilst controlling and killing the population and stealing their land and homes.
- Hamas is not a threat to Israel. It's nowhere near powerful enough and the IDF has killed what 10 to 30 times the number Hamas did?
- England did not carpet bomb Ireland to get rid of the IRA.
- Collateral damage is appalling - you've exposed yourself here. Over 250 killed to rescue 4 people who were unharmed?
This is all pretty straightforward.
For many Israel has forfeited its right to exist. Because of the atrocities and apartheid over decades
Yeah, that's not how countries work. Lots of countries have done terrible things, but no one questions the right of Germany or Japan to just exist. The very concept of what you are suggesting is disconnected from reality (or just straight up antisemitism).
Israel defends like the US by preemptively attacking perpetually and occupying another state whilst controlling and killing the population and stealing their land and homes
Which state would that be? The West Bank was controlled by Jordan most recently, and Israel has a peace treaty signed with them. Same goes for Gaza and Egypt. These occupied territories are stateless lands by their very definition. Ask yourself why these territories were being occupied? It's because the land was being used to attack Israel. The Palestinians have refused to negotiate peace and a state of their own, and have doubled down on violence at every turn, so the occupation continues. There is only one pathway to end the occupation and peace, negotiation and the end of violence. I do agree however that the settlement movement is wrong. I just wish Palestinian violence was actually targeted at the settlers and not Israelis in Israel proper.
Hamas is not a threat to Israel.
Say that to the 1200 people killed on October 7th and the hostages held in Gaza. This statement is utterly stupid. It's like saying Al Qaeda was not a threat to the US cause they only destroyed 2 sky scrappers and the US has many others. The number of dead is irrelevant. October 7th was a a declaration of war. If Hamas and their Palestinian supporters did not want a disproportionate response they should have stayed home that day.
Over 250 killed to rescue 4 people who were unharmed
From what I read about the rescue you are referring to, Hamas was caught unprepared and belatedly discovered that Israeli special forces were disguised as Palestinians. When they realized that the hostages were gone, Hamas essentially started firing in all directions killing many of their own people believing them to be Israelis. So yes, the collateral damage was appalling, but it is rather unclear who was responsible for which death. Hamas is hardly going to admit they murdered hundreds of their own people trying to kill a handful of Israeli soldiers and hostages. But here's the really important bit, would any of these those 250 people have been killed had Hamas not kidnapped the Israelis in th first place? You are putting the morally responsibility for these deaths on Israel when pretty straightforward logic would tell you that the situation was created by Hamas and could have been avoided. I mean, talk about blaming the victim.
Antisemitism to be against apartheid, genocide, occupying another country, stealing land and homes. You have no credibility.
These acts have forfeited Israel's right to exist. There are many wonderful Jewish people, but that state does not serve them.
Again - even with the element of surprise it's ludicrous to claim that 274 Palestinians were killed and yet you claim Hamas were the ones being reckless. So Israel presumably didn't return fire or clear a path.
They cleared a path and only the ghoulish would defend that.
Absolutely I would go farther and day Israel has as much “right to exist” as Rhodesia and apartheid South Africa. States that are so inherently violent and so entrenched in the idea of an in-groups supremacy over others simply existing is inherently a crime, because of the actions they must take to perpetuate their own horrid existence.
Tbh if you apply your criteria consistently there’s a lot more countries that should cease to exist before we get to Israel
If we’re talking death and destruction I wouldn’t even talk about Israel before the USA, France, Britain, Russia, Spain etc get their existence questioned
China fits his definition best. How many millions killed bc they weren't part of the communist in group? Let alone those killed who were even part of that group like the teachers? He doesn't live in reality, just in a pure ideological fantasy world.
I don't disagree with your point. But Israel is more extreme: it controls the media and political process of the US, UK and others through bribery and threats. And it is apartheid - openly.
Ahh, another Jews control everything comment
It's well documented.
AIPAC boasts of its success and spent 15 million in a recently contested seat in the US.
There is video of a UK MP being offered a million dollars.
https://x.com/DrLoupis/status/1778392026167357647
In the seventies the Australian PM Gough Whitlam told of a blackmail attempt by Zionists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mtPk_Deb-c
The head of the Mossad threatened the then Prosecutor of the ICC:
The Intercept published its findings on pro Israel bias in the media. It's open source and so clear how they arrived at it:
https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/
CNN was forced to run all of its stories past Israeli censors:
https://theintercept.com/2024/01/04/cnn-israel-gaza-idf-reporting/
CNN Staffers also complained of Pro Israel bias:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/feb/04/cnn-staff-pro-israel-bias
Israel banned Al Jazeera.
The ADL is an Israeli mouthpiece which wanted TikTok shutdown - which is happening:
https://twitter.com/Kahlissee/status/1767989204716265673
Human Rights Watch found Facebook was censoring Palestinian views:
Thanks for the opportunity to look into this.
Rofl Israel controls the media and political process in the US? You're making the same mistake the British did that lead to Israels creation in the first place--thinking American Jews had all this power they don't. Qatar donates more than aipac. Hedge funds are like the biggest political contributors. And many Jewish individual donors aren't exactly one issue donors--they have business interests like what's his name, the casino guy who was the single biggest individual Jewish donor to the Republicans?
You are brainwashed I'm afraid.
I'm not making a mistake.
In this same thread I have described evidence of Israel's corruption.
You comparing Qatar to Israel's political power is revelatory of your bias. And a very poor attempt to deflect.
Where are you from? I all but guarantee the same logic would be applied to wherever you reside. You don't live in reality if you can't think dialectically enough to conclude that a states doing X doesn't revoke its "right" to exist. You're also effectively just punishing the children for the sins of the father as there is virtually no state that is truly beholden to its people, even in democracies.
Israel is doing this now and is unapologetic and shows no sign of stopping.
It's not the same - no other country is an Apartheid state committing genocide.
This literally discounts all the history in the region, all the factors leading to the dominant ideologies in Israel. Also this isnt a genocide. It's not a systematic killing of palestinians. It's an atrocity, yes, but its also just as much a function of unconventional warefare. The US killed way more civilians over the course of the Iraq war and no one called it a genocide. I'm not sure what it is on a percentage basis but the 2022 pop of palestine was 5 million people. 35k people have died in gaza, far less than the hundreds of thousands killed by the US. Anyway, on the fact that this is an atrocity regardless we can agree.
I agree that Israel runs an apartheid state. And the US also essentially runs an apartheid state against blacks.
So the US shouldnt have a right to exist either. And if that's your argument, fine. I'm not going to debate that, but let's be consistent.
Israel is an outlier in the region. It's being driven by people with no ancestry from the region, it's colonialism. Nethanyahu is Polish - it's not even his real name and he's not alone. The days when colonialism is acceptable has long since passed thankfully.
And if you're arguing for a lesser grade of genocide or atrocity - surely Israel has already lost? The cruel killing and speech by Israeli government officials are utterly appalling. No one puts the words into their mouths.
Israel's basic laws entrench apartheid and they are now considering indefinite detention without charge for non Jews. It's disgusting. When the Ukraine war started they offered to take refugees - who were Jewish! Can you imagine another country taking only whites?
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Israel wants hostages back
Israel already has thousands of hostages in it's prisons. Do they really need more?
They don't; they just want their own people back unharmed.
Wow - there really is no humanity there.
I agree that Hamas doesn't care about Palestinian lives. Sounds like we're on the same page on that front.
No attempt at wordplay will save you. Your comment was so cruel in its disregard for Palestinian life it was removed.
Maybe Hamas wanted Palestinians held hostage back and they thought the same as you about Israeli collateral damage?
Thousands of Palestinians are locked up without charge, trial or access to lawyers or the red cross.
Nope, because if they wanted them back they would have traded the hostages they took for prisoners like they normally do.
This time they wanted to martyrs.
250 Palestinians are "collateral damage". I guess they're only human if they're Israelis.
Humans are killed as collateral damage, yes. I think it's shitty that these humans died because Hamas won't return the human hostages they took, but ... here we are.
If you have a problem, take it up with Hamas. Until the hostages are returned, here's some easy listening music for you.
Actually, they died because Israelis killed them. Israelis could have chosen not to - just like you - they figured that the lives of Palestinians are meaningless to them.
No, they because the IDF had to rescue 4 people kidnapped from the Nova music festival, and the rescue operation had the unfortunate effect of killing people on the way out.
Hamas could end this by returning the hostages, but they prefer Palestinians to die. Then braying morons can blame Israel while they celebrate a moral victory from their palaces in Qatar. "Look what the Jews are doing!" And people lap this shit up.
Indeed, the lives of 4 Israelis were more important than those of 200 Palestinians. That's how fucked up in the head you truly are.
Israel wants hostages back, everyone won out of that one.
Lolno, if an idf soldier kills a hostage theyll face no repercussionz
Just out of curiosity, how much blame do you attribute to hamas for holding hostages, in civilian areas, and using rpg launchers trying to stop the IDF from rescuing them?
You realise hamas killed many of those 250 right?
Edit: people here dont like hearing facts? You realise this guy literally goes on to condone hamas violently taking hostages right?
First Hamas could have killed them, They did not, while Israel then killed over 250 people.
People.
Second, Israel holds more Palestinians without charge than Hamas has hostages. It tortures and kills them indiscriminately. It is proposing changing the law so it can hold anyone who is not Jewish indefinitely. If Hamas rescued 16 hostages and killed 1000 Israelis - would that be ok in your eyes?
Israel should absolutely not endanger the lives of hostages kept where they are in danger of attacks and otherwise not in danger. This is not complicated.
Israel should get out of Palestine and commit to staying out.
Israel holds more Palestinians without charge than Hamas has hostages
Israel holds prisoners in jails, not some UN teacher's attic. The prisoners Israel holds have generally been arrested for something they did, not just some random civilians who happened to be at a music concert. There is no moral equivalence between a prisoner held by a state and a hostage held by a terrorist organization. Terrorism is not like most crimes, and at times proving someone is a danger to the state to a judge in order to hold them is possible, but to put them on trial without revealing sensitive intelligence information and methods in a public trial is not. The US faced this same problem with Gitmo.
But let's be clear, when Israel tries and convicted Yahya Sinwar, the mastermind of October 7th, for murdering 4 Palestinians and 2 Israelis, he was jailed and had his life saved by an Israeli surgeon from his brain cancer. Hamas held an Israeli soldier for 5 years and traded him for 1027 Palestinian prisoners including Sinwar. Israel learned from that mistake. Releasing the terrorists you are already caught is only going to lead to more death. So that means no negotiating for hostages and holding terrorists without charge of necessary. The expectation that Israel will sacrifice more of its own people so that Palestinian terrorists can enjoy legal rights they do not extend to their own hostages is utterly laughable.
No - holding without charge implies a failed and cruel process. Particularly when Israel tortures and kills prisoners.
Here's a member of the government you admire saying he wants to shoot them in the head:
https://twitter.com/SuppressedNws/status/1807204839568314407
I would like to add in addition to the poor treatment Palestinian prisoners as young as 12 are frequently imprisoned without trial in what’s called “administrative detention”. When this happens Israel does not hold a trial, tell prisoners what crimes they’ve been accused of committing or allow them to defend themselves. It’s essentially a apartheid style system where ethnically Palestinian citizens within the West Bank are not entitled to any legal protections and are subject to arbitrary imprisonment while illegal settlers in the West Bank are entitled to a jury trial and to defend themselves in a court. Legalized discrimination is exactly what these clowns are defending.
Which came first? If the other side isn't acting in good faith, game theory forces you to essentially take similar measures. Did these detentions start to take place after the exchange? Yes. That exchange in reference was in 2011. 280 of those released were serving life sentences for terrorism. People in these threads don't seem to realize the nature of terrorism. I hate the BB regime--its destroying everything and anything that was ever good in Israel, but these particular things require a degree of mentalization that's almost impossible, and it's just expedient to identify with the "underdog."
Well the cycle of Israel is to provoke and respond to the reaction. Downplaying their provocation and response which historically exceeds the reaction.
As it is again in the number typically in detention and the deaths over the last year of Palestinian civilians compared to Israelis.
The stories are predominantly of the hostages, not the huge number of deaths of Palestinians in rescuing them. It's a twisted narrative that the non Western world sees through - because their political systems and media aren't manipulated in favour of Israel. And the rest are starting to see it too.
Are you reading off a script or something? Wanna try actually replying to what I wrote?
Love you giving hamas props for not killing the hostages that they took. Unbelievable.
Love you giving hamas props for not killing the hostages that they took. Unbelievable.
I wish i could give Israel props for not killing hostages, but apparently they are so apathetic to it that soldiers who gun down hostages face no repercussions
Interestingly enough, you "nuanced" opinion does not include the Palestinian point if view. Almost like your "nuance" is only a piss poor attempt to defend mass murder.
You can conclude that the ones actively pushing Congress to investigate top universities for “anti-semitism” receive decent amount of money
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good Journalism
When Slovenia recognized Palestine a fresh account broke the story to /r/Slovenia by posting a twitter screenshot of the BRICKS account (the dictators alliance of China Russia...) posting about it.
Both sides have their own AI bot spam and useful idiots, depending on what the algorithm lays out for you, personally on fb and xitter i mostly see pro-palestine spam if i ever venture into that sphere (i prefer not to), and I heard tiktok is the same.
Which side has more money I wonder.
Both sides definitely do not.
The pro-Israel lobby invests far more time and energy into astroturfing.
You posted a bunch of sources, but not evidence that Israel invests more time and money than the combined efforts of China, Iran, Russia, and Qatar. Particularly on the latters efforts within US universities.
than the combined efforts of China, Iran, Russia, and Qatar.
It doesn't matter unless it's more than the 'combined efforts' of all those countries?
Why?
Also do you have evidence quantifying any of that?
The Washington Post, citing an expert from the DoD, concluded that in the context of Israel/Palestine, only Israel demonstrates the level of organization in astroturfing & influence campaigns.
“This level of organization only exists on one side of the conflict,” said Emerson T. Brooking, a former cyber policy adviser to the Defense Department who studies disinformation and propaganda campaigns as a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab. “It exists for pro-Israel voices, and it exists because there are government ministries in Israel that support these tools and encourage their use.”
Brooking and other experts said they aren’t aware of any similar tools for Palestinian supporters.
If there was evidence of Qatar 'funding' all the protests against apartheid Israel's genocide in Gaza, then I'm sure you'd lead with that.
Except, you're not.
Maybe, I just don't see it and get the other sides content, despite not wanting any of it.
Pro-Israel advocacy is driven by the Israeli government & advocacy groups.
There's lots of reporting on this.
“This level of organization only exists on one side of the conflict,” said Emerson T. Brooking, a former cyber policy adviser to the Defense Department who studies disinformation and propaganda campaigns as a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab. “It exists for pro-Israel voices, and it exists because there are government ministries in Israel that support these tools and encourage their use.”
Brooking and other experts said they aren’t aware of any similar tools for Palestinian supporters.
The Israeli government promoted an astroturfing campaign in the US and Canada with Islamophobic & anti-Palestinian content.
The influence campaign made extensive use of fake websites and social media to promote content that is pro-Israel, anti-Palestinian and anti-Muslim content, as well as disinformation about antisemitism on American campuses, according to an investigation by the Fake Reporter organization, published today.
The operation was run by a private Israeli online political campaigning firm called STOIC that was hired for the project. According to sources and information obtained by Haaretz, the operation was commissioned by Israel's Diaspora Affairs Ministry but carried out by a different party, for fear that its exposure could entangle Israel in a crisis. The ministry oversees a number of firms for a number of different purposes and goals. Among the candidates for the job was the organization Voices of Israel, which received half of its original funding from the Israeli government, though it was not tapped for the task in the end.
[1] AIPAC buys American politicians.
[3] Groups like the ADL promote censorship by weaponizing antisemitism.
[4] Groups like 'Iron Truth' and previously, Act.IL , spam malicious reports/brigade anything critical of Israel online.
[5] Pro-Israel celebrities and tech executives put pressure on social media to censor criticism of Israel.
[6] Pro-Israel business figures put pressure on politicians and run influence campaigns.
[7] And hundreds of millions of dollars flow from pro-Israel American citizens to Israel's settlement project - which directly contradicts the US government position on a 2SS.
It's a full-court press of BS.
So while we have to sit back and listen to pro-Israel activists crying because someone called Israel an apartheid State, all of this is happening all the time without pushback.
So you’re saying the Jews Zionists control Reddit?
Not all Jews are Zionists. Judaism is an ethnic group and religion, unrelated to Zionism. Saying all Jews are 'evil Zionists' is antisemitism.
Doesn’t stop some people from hiding behind “I used Zionist instead of Jews, so it’s not antisemitism!”
There are way more people shielding Israeli actions through complaints of antisemitism than antisemites using antizionism as a shield. The Israeli state to begin with.
If we seek to stop people from saying that whatever Israel does is "the Jews", then the first step is to call out and reject the idea that Israel represents Jews.
☝️
This kind of garbage is the last line of defense for conspiracy theory mentality. It's sad to see it so upvoted and agreed with in the comments. This is just an attempt to dismiss anything and everything someone "pro israel" might say against someone who is "pro palestinian." It's an attempt dehumanize anyone who supports Israel and claim their point of view is not valid, or is somehow disingenuous. Simply claiming any evidence against you is a lie and is part of "the conspiracy" is a way to reject facts or evidence.
I've been very liberal my whole life and it's just say to see so many liberals regurgitating straight up Neonazi talking points like ZOG theory, or claiming there is a big bad "JIDF" patrolling the internet and trolling people, rather than just human beings with different views of this war.
People who support the mass murder of children should be dehumanized, actually.
No one is "supporting the mass murder of children." Israelis are humans who deserve peace and safety too. There can be no repeat of Oct 7.
And did the 34,000+ murdered Palestinians deserve peace and safety? Did Hind Rajab deserve peace and safety?
That was not a choice of Israel. Hamas committed Oct 7 required a response to prevent that from ever happening again. It is also Hamas, through their tactics, who is increasing civilian deaths
How about israel not doing something to cause 7th of oct like killing hundreds in the west bank and evicting more plaestinians fron jerusalem and building new settlements
Not Israel's fault. After 2019 terror attacks have drastically escalated
There are now almost daily terror attacks in the West Bank.
Stopping terrorists is not evil... Unless you're saying Israel should not defend its civilians against terrorists.
Which of those terror attacks was Hind Rajab responsible for?
What were the infants and elderly Hamas killed and took hostage responsible for?
I'm not the one defending civilians being murdered, you are.
What are the israelis doing in the west bank in the first place it occupied according to international law every act of resistance is not terrorism since the israelis are the one breaking the law in the first place
Terrorism against civilians is not resistance.
Civilians that are in an occupied country are no longer civilians
They include conspiracy narratives about the billionaire Jewish philanthropist George Soros.
On May 10, Shirion posted a warning about the “Soros-Backed Tides Foundation”.
Beirich, the extremism expert, said that Soros conspiracy theories are “always implicitly linked” with antisemitism.
A cursory search gives multiple hits linking Tides and Soros. If it is true then how is it a conspiracy or antisemitic?
Seems like the real conspiracy is that any criticism levelled at Soros is tied into classic anti-jewish tropes in order to immediately discredit it to the public.
It's a bullshit strategy and takes away from actual antisemitism.
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