Rain gear in hotter and humid weather?

Hey folks! I'm a bit of a gearhead and I love to optimise my 'loadout' for different scenarios. In my opinion proper kit selection is the key to always being comfortable, no matter how punishing the weather is.

I wear a good GTX shell in the wet winter and Paramo for the shoulder seasons and drier winter weather (sometimes that can get swapped about since Paramo does struggle in an unending downpour).

BUT I struggle to know what to do in warmer spring and summer, on the rainy days. Do I wear a lightweight GTX jacket and suffer the internal humidity? Do I wear my Paramo and vent as best I can to counter the admittedly drier internal 'oven'? Maybe a poncho, and faff about in the windy peaks?

All I know is that right now my current method of getting soaked through and throwing on my Paramo to warm up and kinda dry out... Well... It works for me, but I feel it lacks a certain finesse (and runs the risk of hypothermia when out in the wind), and like I said, I do like to optimise.

Trying to google this sorta thing often just turns up lists of the 'Top 10 Rain Jackets of 2024', so I figured I'd ask for a discussion, and maybe gather some information that'll help some other folks who are also trying to work out their own systems.

I'd love to hear what you folks are doing, and how that fits into your systems.

Thanks!

in UKhikingby Old-Mook

100%

16d

Tickulz

16d

I run very hot while walking, so invariably wear shorts regardless of season, adding gaiters if it's very wet.

Key for me is airflow, so on the top I'll wear a wicking t-shirt and a very lightweight hard shell, mine has pit zips and mesh pockets so with everything open you do get quite a bit of ventilation.

Also a rigid pack that is designed to be held away from the body (my last investment), so air can circulate there as well - used to use an Osprey but would always have a soaking wet back after a few miles.

MarrV

16d

I wear the same rain jacket most of the year, I only break out the waterproof down in minus temperatures when it is wet and will be moving less.

Then again I don't do multi days in winter.

The rest of the year my firewall has kept me dry, the layers underneath change more than the outer.

Old-Mook

16d

I'm still more of a day hiker, so I'm active until I stop for the day, back at the car.

Is that the Rab Firewall? Do you find the Proflex breathes better than GTX style membranes?

MarrV

15d

Yes it is the RAB firewall, it is 5 years old now and had become my go to coat for everything from hiking to going over the top of work wear and has unfortunately begun to give up the ghost (waterproof seams are failing).

The breathability is mostly enhanced by opening the zips as you hike to allow direct air floe while retaining the ability to keep the weather out.

The membrane I have no qualms with but my previous coat was goretex and I admittedly put down the differences to one being a £220 coat from Rab and the other being a £100 coat from (I honestly cannot remember where, just remember it's two tone colour). That latested about 5 years too.

cloudsinfocus

16d

In the USA, I read people saying they wear very wind resistant jackets and just get wet in warm rain if they can keep moving. So maybe a membrane that was more breathable than GTX, such as made by TNF or Pertex now, and that sometimes get criticised in the UK for not being absolutely waterproof, would be a middle ground between GTX and Paramo?

I can't really help because I don't do a lot of backpacking in the very warm summer due to midges, not the temperatures. But when I did backpack in late June a few years ago, the long days of rain with a heavy pack were a nightmare and I couldn't get my layers correct underneath; probably a synthetic baselayer/sun hoody like the Black Diamond Alpenglow Pro would have been sufficient to maintain enough warmth and not feel too horrible inside GTX, I don't know. Day trips with a rucksack in the summer rain is not a problem and I use a very thin merino and a very thin microfleece hoody for that and can regulate fine. It is possible that meraklon-type, high-wicking baselayers, such as the Helly Hansen Lifa and the older Lowe Alpine Dryflo, work best under GTX?

Old-Mook

16d

I was under the impression Pertex was the same tech as GTX, coming about when the patent ended. That being said, maybe going for something like a softshell or maybe Rab's Proflex (which is supposedly more waterproof that a softshell but less than a hard shell) would tick that 'middle ground' box.

I struggle with layering in the summer, too, because anything feels too much to me. At the moment I'm in a lightish merino longsleeved baselayer, and I find that's normally enough for me until it gets saturated and the wind comes on.

The main issue I see with GTX is that because they're a membrane they need a diffusion gradient to move the vapour out. If there's a higher humidity outside than in, then the moisture simply won't pass outwards, regardless of how well wicking the baselayer is.

Thanks!

cloudsinfocus

16d

Think you mean eVent. But you could be right, I would have to check. Google nanospun or something like that, I think Pertex was not teflon-type membrane. Rab's stuff sounds good, never used it.

Yeah, I use a tighter-fitting active shell, one of the most breathable, in summer and it works better than the baggier winter shell, inducing condensation and with heavy face fabric restricting breathability, so that also agrees with your pressure effect.

From what I have read, paclite is able to pass vapour/liquid when saturated a bit better than standard GTX, so worth bearing in mind now they are using eco-friendly DWR, which saturates quicker. The new eco-membrane is not as breathable either, so everything needs reassessing in light of the latest options.

So many people use Paramo I have to accept that it must be one of the best solutions; I just haven't tried it properly or systematically.

Old-Mook

16d

Ah, right. So many different names it does get a little confusing at times.

I think paclite does away with the inner layer in favour of a coating, so doesn't have the same concern of internal saturation.

Paramo is an odd one. I've been using it for a few months, and it seems to really excel in colder, more intermitten rainfall. You don't stay bone dry, but you do stay warm and comfortable. If you're doing a high level of activity and sweating a lot, you'd end up wet inside either way, but it feels less humid to me. They're also a much more comfortable fabric to wear all day. I think it's one of those brands that is really well suited to the UK's chaotic weather, but wouldn't really work in a more stable climate.

cloudsinfocus

15d

I don't know if it is the replacement of the protective scrim with a PU smear/coat inside paclite, that makes it more transmissive or hygroscopic/drophilic, because I only read something a materials engineer said on the backpackinglight forum before he left for good.

Nothing works when it is really warm and humid, so it must be a question of comfort, I guess. Having a spare, dry, layer for stopping is also a good option, if you want to just plod on through the rain to a camp because it is no fun trying to dry stuff on you, especially when you are tired and need to just cook and sleep, etc.

-_Pendragon_-

15d

No, he didn’t, he means what he says

cloudsinfocus

15d

What? eVent was 'stretched teflon' without a PU smear to protect it, once the patent for GTX expired, then GTX pro was a response to the competitive breathability of eVent but protected by another layer of 'teflon', as far as I know. Not sure about Active Shell. What is the 'proflex' technology or what is it made of? I will google it.

Pertex shield I thought was nanospun. Let me check.

-_Pendragon_-

15d

We were talking about different parts of the comment

cloudsinfocus

15d

I still don't follow but whatever.

Someone who would know what proflex is likely made with is:

https://www.reddit.com/user/MtnHuntingislife/

I will have a look, unless it is discussed in this post. I haven't read any of the other comments.

cloudsinfocus

15d

Yeah, think I'm right but maybe talking across each other if there is another form of Pertex that he means:

https://pertex.com/fabrics-technologies/shield-air

-_Pendragon_-

15d

+1 to the Kinetic. It’s what I use in Humid conditions and it’s great. I switch out to a Keb Eco Shell heavyweight in winter

No_Tip553

16d

Merino base layer if it’s hot. R1 Air hoodie over that if cooler/mild. Switch the R1 to a R2 Tech hoodie if it’s cooler/mild but windy and or light rain. If it’s really cold R1 & R2 together. If it’s hot but wet, base layer plus hardshell with pit vents. If it’s mild or cold see above combos plus hardshell. Basically three tops to do it all. To confuse things further I also have a montane soft shell to chuck over a base layer if it’s hot, but light rain and too hot for the R2 Tech fleece and not wet enough for a hardshell.

So pack wise I always wear the base and carry the hardshell. I’ll then have either the R1 or the R2 (depending on likelihood of wind/rain) in the pack if it’s warm or whichever one I’m not wearing in the pack if it’s cold.

All that gobbledygook makes perfect sense to me!

Old-Mook

16d

I think I follow. I wish I could justify so many Patagonia layers, or rather the cost of them. Sounds like they do a good job though. If only I could convince the missus. I do like a good softshell, though I find that I only really take mine out when it's forecast dry with strong winds.

Packweight/size is a factor for me, too, as even on the most bone dry days I do prefer to carry my shell just in case.

Cheers!

No_Tip553

16d

Yeah I’m ultralight and also run ultra hot too. My two hates on hiking/running are hardshells and swish swish swish

I also always carry the hardshell regardless, but the above set up means I only have one other item of clothing in my pack (plus waterproof trousers) 3 seasons (unless stupid weather). I share the same philosophy as the poster from the US, in the summer I don’t wear a hardshell unless it’s proper wet. The r2 techface works similar to pile and pertex as in it’ll get wet but keep you dry.

I use Patagonia as it works for me, but you could easy swap that out for a std mid layer and a wind proof fleece. It’s just the r2 tech is just such a versatile piece of kit.

Lower_Throat_2652

16d

Maybe take a look at Montane’s Phase Nano Jacket. If you are just looking for a hiking emergency shell it would probably work for you.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YZZswJQmZ_E

younevershouldnt

16d

My suggestion is don't look at "waterproof" jackets but consider softshell ones made from GoreTex infinium.

This is very water resistant but much more breathable than a proper hard shell.

And the jacket will probably be cut a bit less baggy.

Have a look at the Marmot Rom for an example, and you should find some at big discounts at the mo.

cloudsinfocus

15d

This would be a good idea if windstopper/infinium here was just a thin form of ePTFE without a PU smear, with face fabric and a scrim protector backing? That might be what Montbell use in their jacket that is popular with UL? A kind of 'almost' completely/absolutely waterproof.

But if the ROM is just a thin windstopper/infinium softshell, then the outer can absorb water as well as the liner and this will lead to serious heat loss in colder rain, IME. I had a ROM ages ago and remember it as a thin windstopper softshell, or actually a hybrid as I don't think the whole jacket was windstopper, can't remember exactly.

Ze_Gremlin

15d

I have a cagoule that I always keep packed on me.

When it starts to rain, I strip down my layers and put it on usually down to just a thin shirt. Lightweight, dry and and I'm not overheating from loads of layers.

Once it gets properly soaked, the cool water on the outside helps regulate internal temperature by conduction.

I've ran, hiked and cycled like this and i find it works

riceandbeefandbeans

15d

Packable waterproof jacket from Mountain Equipment/Rab/apatagonia are my picks for the spring and summer, I’d usually start off with a t shirt and a light fleece on, and then you’re good for all permutations.

Dyno_boy

16d

Just don’t and get a light umbrella. I have spent weeks trekking in India and Borneo.

You can not keep dry.

You will either sweat to death or be soaked.

The best option is to breath.

Yes even feet. The less material the better.

Wear boots as a last resort. Preferably a hiking sandle. But terrain will direct this. Then go To a light trail runner if in doubt go to jungle boots. But take good care of your feet.

But jacket wise a poncho breaths the best.

For the uk or Europe or will be your energy output that dictates the jacket. If you are getting soaked I have found light weight coats designed for showers for trail runners are the best.

If you are slow a paramo or forested will do fine. Both will be sweaty. But dry ish

Old-Mook

16d

I'm mostly wandering around the Peak District, where the wind can be quite hefty. I wrote off umbrellas due to the wind driven rain, and ponchos were a concern because of the flapping about. I guess they're not the most expensive thing to experiment with at least.

I prefer boots, as I'm generally on rocky/uneven terrain, and I appreciate the support. Unfortunately it's quite tough to find non-GTX boots that also fit my very narrow and very high-arched feet. If I know the route is well pathed though, I do like the trail runner approach.

I do like my Paramo jacket for the colder weather, but I'd definitely agree it's not great if you're running hot. I'll have to look into the trail running shells though.

Thanks!

younevershouldnt

16d

An umbrella is a hilarious idea though.

ResCYn

15d

Andrew Beavers is always pounding around in the Peaks, is also a gearhead, likes ultra-light gear, runs hot, and has swapped to an OMM Core hoody and OMM Halo jacket that look like a good combo. Sounds a bit stalker-y that! But it's only cos I'm subbed to him and have been asking myself the question you have for this year, so it stuck in my head and I've ordered the both of them to try out.

https://youtu.be/_s137ZTADhM?si=YkvJoZmBVnEY_4Sr

cloudsinfocus

15d

What denier is that Halo, do you know? It looks about 7-10, judging by the weight of the whole jacket?

ResCYn

15d

All I know is the website details. Don't know if it even has a denier rating based on the fabric.

This review doesn't mention it either but goes into more detail you may find useful: https://youtu.be/ijODzXKIICg?si=vMxyOXCARhZVNCYb

Lover_of_Sprouts

-2

16d

I never understand these kind of posts. I always found wearing full waterproofs unbearably hot, and sweated so much, I ended up just as wet as if I'd not bothered.

But ffs, the answer is always to do whatever works best for you. We're all different, and what's right for me might be wrong for you.

Old-Mook

16d

I agree that standard waterproofs are too hot for the summer, which is why I currently don't wear them like I would in winter.

I'm asking the question because, while what I'm doing right now is okay, I'd like to hear what other are doing, because they might have some insight that I've overlooked. Maybe what they're doing is right for me too, I just haven't thought of or tried it. I'm not asking for the 'right answer', because as you say there is no right answer, I'm just looking for alternatives to my own thoughts and processes. That's how we learn new things.

Lover_of_Sprouts

16d

Good reply, makes total sense

cloudsinfocus

15d

They're trying to learn from other people's experience in addition to and before they learn from their own experience. It is why language was invented.