Face it lads, we’re doing OK

Opinion

Look, we all know England have been mostly poor so far. But we’ve created a couple of magic moments to build our momentum and we’re in the last 8.

But take stock and find another team taking this tournament by the scruff of the neck…

Germany? Home team advantage, but largely untested. 50/50 staying home after Friday.

Spain? Look good going forward, but conceded to Georgia. 50/50 going home after Friday.

France? No goals from open play except OGs.

Portugal? Not beating (so far) the team we got pilloried for not battering.

Belgium? Italy? Tot ziens and arrivederci.

We’re doing OK. It ain’t how you start, it’s how you finish.

COME ON ENGLAND!!

in ThreeLionsby llufnam

354

75%

That_Cool_Guy_

115

Part of the issue (apart from our inept forward play) is that all the teams we have come up against have low blocks.

Switzerland should be more adventurous. Therefore there will be more space to play. I can see Bellingham doing well in this game.

My concern is the loss of Guehi. Our defence has looked pretty solid and he has built up a good partnership with Stones.

wesap12345

I don’t think Guehi was great in the last game and I do also think the way we play has helped him bed in so hopefully whoever replaces him will also feel that protection from the system.

It’s been said to death but the problem is the lack of change when something isn’t working.

The modern game and great managers make an impact and Southgate just doesn’t.

ChubbyVeganTravels

Indeed. Also Konsa will have 5 days to work with the other members of the back four in training before the Switzerland game. A luxury in international tournaments.

antebyotiks

I don't know why people keep guehi wasnt good ? He blocked a probable goal before they actually scored and the goal was more stones fault for getting to close and walkers fault for being to far back.

Guehi didn't do much wrong

tiorzol

And he got the assist for the goal. He was crucial.

antebyotiks

Yeah, although that's just a header that wouldn't meant he played well.

In general I mean i don't get the people Saying he didn't play well

IsleofManc

I thought he played well but the moments of concern seemed to be both him and Stones going for the same header. Not sure if it's his fault or Stones though.

It led to their goal when they both went for a high ball together and the Slovakian won the header, but I noticed it 3-4 other times as well. It's some really amateur defending and hopefully it's something they're paying attention to and working on

antebyotiks

Absolutely stones fault, guehi was the CB further forward and as the deeper CB you have a better view of what's happening and you have to drop back and let guehi who's getting back challenge for the header. Even if they win the ball by stones dropping back at least stones and Walker are back and Walker doesn't have to drift over.

Guehi also stopped a probable goal before they scored, didn't see it happen multiple times at all, John stones hasn't been good in any of the games.

Shnarf1980

I think he was slow to react to the runner going past him, but I've only seen it once tbf. Otherwise he's been really good, and we have far bigger problems

antebyotiks

I guess but even that was stones fault for being too close to a CB partner and Walker for playing onside.

Stones has been bad all tournament

NP2312

Slovakia didn't start with a low block and were getting ripped open by them

UlteriorAlt

I think Konsa can do a similar job at CB, though we might end up going for a back 3/5 instead.

InternalKing

He's bringing Dunk in let's be honest

un_verano_en_slough

Sincerely doubt it. He didn't bring him on in the last minutes and I think his mistakes in the friendlies ultimately cost him.

fre-ddo

Didn't cost him enough to be replaced by Branthwaite one of the top defenders of the league last season.

tank_girl99

3 at the back sounds far too adventurous

OkStyle800

Really? Because I think Slovakia had such a high line.

seanypthemc

Slovakia had a high press, not a low block. We kept hoofing it up field

inverted_shoulders

If we survived losing Kalvin Phillips, we can survive losing Guehi

DangerousAd3347

As soon as we score we go into a low block ourselves though

Moistkeano

Why wouldnt you employ a low block if it works? Also Denmark pressed high, Serbia pressed high, Slovakia pressed high when they needed to and caused us so many problems by attacking. Weird innit how we shit the bed when we're pressed high or they attack us yet we should be better against the Swiss.

I dont get that line because when was the last team we won against a team that you would consider "good"? Italy? or has the facade of italy crumbled?

In March we played Belgium and Brazil and didnt win either. They didnt employ low blocks and we didnt create much.

The issue isnt low blocks lol. The issue is how you deal with it. The commentary for the Copa america is so much better because they explain to the audience how to deal with certain tactics. A low block isnt just a GOOJ card for a lesser team - you adapt your play.

Southgate gets paid the most money for an international coach yet apparently he cannot work out a tactic that deals with low blocks lol. Sadly he has actually employed a tactic that is the anti thesis of what would be good against a low block.

dimsdalejack

Konsa is a better player than Guehi. It’ll be fine.

Agile-Day-2103

Switzerland are more intelligent than us though. Yes, they normally play a bit more adventurously. But they should realise that all they have to do is sit deep and we will not be able to score

dodgycool_1973

I am not too concerned about facing the Swiss. Yes they are better than the other teams we have faced so far, but, they haven’t played us yet. They might want to be more adventurous but won’t have the ball as much as they have in their other games.

We are not playing well, but we are still very difficult to play against and we do have players who can change a game.

Plenty_Assumption_18

Solid. The defense looks shakey every time it’s attacked! It’s just the teams we played against haven’t been clinical

naitch44

114

Main concern is we are playing against a team that have looked really good, I fear for us in that game because we are going to have to improve massively. We can do it though, we have the players if we can just start to click.

JHock93

Yea this is it for me too. Switzerland have looked good in every match except for a wobbly half an hour against Scotland. Against Hungary and Italy they were comfortably the better team.

There's been a lot of focus on the 'big' teams at this tournament but Greece 04, Denmark 92 etc has shown that there's no God given right that only the big boys can compete for titles. The idea of the Euros semi final being Switzerland vs Austria isn't completely unthinkable to me.

Sir-Chris-Finch

Not being funny but i think both Switzerland and Austria get past us relatively comfortably. We’re absolutely shocking. Lets not pretend Slovakia are anything close to an actual good team either. We scraped past extremely luckily against a poor side.

InZim

Switzerland drew against Scotland and snatched a draw against Germany.

Doubt Austria beat Turkey either.

Sir-Chris-Finch

They didn’t snatch a draw against Germany (as if that would suggest they’re not that good anyway), they conceded a late equaliser and were unfortunate not to be 2-0 up.

We’ll see what happens in the Austria Turkey game but ive been much more impressed with Austria this tournament than Turkey.

InZim

I don't see how Switzerland were unfortunate to not be 2-0 up after having four shots all game and after Germany had a goal ruled out contentiously.

Sir-Chris-Finch

Switzerland also had their own goal ruled out that would have put them 2-0 up remember.

Still, maybe a draw was a fair result, but im not sure you can really say they scraped a draw, i think that’s disingenuous when they were a couple of minutes away from winning

InZim

I wanted them to win for the banter but they were definitely on borrowed time for most of the match. I'm mostly worried for the match because of how bad England are. I think we would struggle against every team in the competition including those already knocked out.

Sir-Chris-Finch

Yeah i agree with your last point. I genuinely cant see us beating anyone half decent. Im naturally quite negative about football in general, but im trying to look at this through an objective lens, and i cant seem to bring myself to actually believe we’ll do it.

Switzerland have knocked France and Italy out of the last 2 Euros. We’ve never even knocked a world cup winner in a tournament outside of England, ever. Add the fact that we’re utterly shocking at the moment, and it leads me to think it will be a pretty routine win for Switzerland.

Hope im drastically wrong of course.

InZim

Lulled them into an accurate sense of security I fear

Ok-Abbreviations1077

I'd be surprised if Austria doesn't beat Turkey

llufnam

“Doubt Austria beat Turkey either”

You called it

InZim

Yet to be seen whether that one comes true 😬

llufnam

I reckon it will. It’s basically a home game

InZim

Woohoo I was right!

llufnam

This comment contains a Collectible Expression, which are not available on old Reddit.

fre-ddo

Turkey were lame in the qualifiers.

Status_Cockroach6953

I have Austria down to beat Turkey

CandourDinkumOil

Yeah not to mention Czech Republic reaching the final in 96 and knocking some of the big boys out.

chuckusadart

They drew with Scotland

naitch44

And Germany

LevTolstoy

It's been reassuring watch people shit on France's play, and Portugal's play, and Belgium's play... I expect the mob will continue to shit on us the hardest, but hey, we're not alone.

Plenty_Assumption_18

France and Portugal at least create chances!

Easy_Garden338

Least by the sounds of it, the team is ignoring the negativity and using it to prove the doubters wrong. Hopefully more get behind them and we can see how amazing this team truly is.

WhopperQPR

They definitely ain't ignoring the negativity. Kane, bellingham and southgate have spoke about it in the press.

"Proving doubters wrong" - The general public feeling around the campaign so far is that we're underpeforming which is objectively true. Now us still being in is just a testament to how good of a squad we have because we can afford to be poor if we keep having big moments. The good thing is we seem to have that gritty thing about us being able to always get over the line (portugal literally won the euros doing this) but the hardest challenge so far is going to be switzerland and we will 100% have to up our performance if we want to beat them.

Is the criticism justfied? Yes.

Now people being miserable even after that bellingham goal are just not true england fans. 99.9% of us have just had one of the best moments we've ever had in football. Never lose the faith.

GlennSWFC

If it was just going so far as saying we’re underperforming then I’d say the criticism is justified.

It’s not though. People are calling for the manager to be sacked mid tournament. Some are saying that these are the worst performances England have ever put in. Yesterday some were even saying they were happy England were losing so we can get rid of Southgate sooner. That goes way beyond simply saying we’re underperforming.

Buttonsafe

Kane #1207

The funny thing about tournaments is that a lot of more casual England fans start watching, you can see the mood of this entire sub has shifted drastically.

No one who's watched England consistently and has half a brain would say any of these things, yet popular and stupid voices say them all the time .

The amount of disrespect to our opponents is almost as embarrassing as the toxic atmosphere towards our own manager and players, tbh. We got hammered for not beating Slovenia, yet Portugal were worse against them with an extra half-hour to play.

We're told even in this thread that Germany are one of the best teams in it, yet they were a toenail and a not-handball away from possibly losing to Denmark.

Yet If England had put in either of those performances, we'd be hearing about how shite we are on here. And if we beat Switzerland in a years time I'll be being told "it was only Switzerland" just like Sweden in 2018 were "only Sweden" despite beating Italy over two legs, and finishing above Germany in their group to get to the quarters.

llufnam

Thank you. You have just summed up everything I wanted to say.

BreakTheSuicycle

Rory Jennings is a fucking moron to be fair

UlteriorAlt

It's funny because Jennings said "if we score now, we'll win the tournament" just before Bellingham scored. Said it was one of the best games, if not the best, that he'd ever been to.

https://youtu.be/zLZfyI2Mv-8?si=q5c7S79GqN_IajIx&t=120

Buttonsafe

Kane #1207

He was next to James Alcott apparently, which is so strange cause they're on the absolute opposite spectrum of football content.

TannedCroissant

The trouble is with Germany, you’re using the example of one bad game they had, but we had four. If we had played 3 games well and one poor then that would be unfair to criticise them but that’s not the case.

The other problem is how unnecessary our bad performances are, the system didn’t work but Southgate has stuck with it for four games now. The toxicity is pretty much just aimed at Southgate really, people aren’t (at least from what I’ve seen) blaming the players, just how poorly they are being managed.

Buttonsafe

Kane #1207

I agree we've looked worse than Germany. However they've faced Scotland, the worst team at the tournament. Hungary, one of the few 3rd place sides not to make it to the knockouts.

And they drew with Switzerland who have been pretty pretty good.

The other problem is how unnecessary our bad performances are, the system didn’t work but Southgate has stuck with it for four games now.

I mean I agree he probably should change it, but it has worked in terms of us getting the results, despite the performances being lacklustre. Someone on here has convinced me that we should switch to a 3atb funnily enough.

I'm not sure it's entirely the system as much as the players either seeing as our best player is apparently our Crystal Palace CB who's just come back from a huge injury.

You can slate Southgate all you want, and he's definitely fucking up by being too slow to change. Ultimately it falls on his head anyway but it's not his fault Stones was day dreaming when Walker passed that FK to him and they nearly scored from the halfway line. Or that Foden forgot the offside rule existed for some reason. Or that Rice decided against Denmark to forget how to pass a ball entirely.

The toxicity is pretty much just aimed at Southgate really, people aren’t (at least from what I’ve seen) blaming the players, just how poorly they are being managed

People are definitely aiming it at the players too, takes two seconds to look through this sub and see that. They've been shtie, but when you're struggling you need your fans to get behind you not slate you.

No one's ever been braver on the ball, or played better because their own fans are booing them. We've seen over and over again the terrible effect this toxicity has had on talented England sides, I thought we'd finally shucked it after 2018 but, unfortunately, it seems we're here again.

sansomc

The toxicity is pretty much just aimed at Southgate really, people aren’t (at least from what I’ve seen) blaming the players, just how poorly they are being managed.

Guess you didn't read this gem of a post earlier then: https://www.reddit.com/r/ThreeLions/s/YzLAkVhkIv

the system didn’t work but Southgate has stuck with it for four games now.

I mean he stuck with it for two games, and then changed starting CM for the two games afterwards. Maybe it's not the wholesale changes you wanted to see, but personally, I think changing multiple positions every match is just not what a serious or winning national team does.

marky_de-sade

I agree with your final point to an extent and I value the importance of consistency but I was dismayed he didn't take the free hit that the Slovakia game offered to rest some clearly fatigued key players and try something different with the talent that have spent most of the time thus far on the bench. Almost every other team that were guaranteed qualification rested players for their final group game. It's almost madness that England didn't.

ChubbyVeganTravels

"people aren’t (at least from what I’ve seen) blaming the players"

Some pundits certainly are. Especially on media outlets like TalkSport.

ChubbyVeganTravels

"people aren’t (at least from what I’ve seen) blaming the players"

Some pundits certainly are. Especially on media outlets like TalkSport.

WhopperQPR

Keyword "Some". The majority are not asking for southgate to get sacked mid tourney because it's idiotic. There will always be a loud minority, just as there will be a loud minority that exaggerate when things are going well. Most people will still be watching the switzerland game with the same passion as they had before the tournament. It's unfair to lump most people in with a loud minority.

GlennSWFC

Of course it’s “some”. I genuinely doubt that this post is about those who are taking a more pragmatic stance on things.

It is interesting that you highlighted the “some” in my comment, yet you gave a flat “is the criticism justified? Yes” without acknowledging that some of the criticism steps over that mark. Maybe the answer to that question should be “some of it”, not “yes”.

WhopperQPR

I'm sorry I forgot to include the loud minority who are saying stupid things like sack a manager mid tournament? Really? Are you really focusing most of your energy in this debate on people saying outrageous things because it's the internet?

Do you take people calling ronaldo "penaldo" seriously too? I'm looking at the bigger data, you seem to be only focusing on the smaller group.

Of course the critisism is justified? Did you even hear what the media said to southgate? Nothing out of the ordinary at all. You think southgate is more worried about hearing teenage kids saying sack him rather than the big narrative on news outlets and pundits saying we've been poor so far?

BNWOfutur3

"the team is ignoring the negativity and using it to prove the doubters wrong"

This is a contradiction

Easy_Garden338

I meant they are not letting it get to them but instead using it to turn into a positive

Embarrassed-Yam-6922

I agree, it’s literally just Spain and Germany that have looked good. Every other big team has been humbled, it’s not 2006, nobody that qualified is an “easy” game (except Scotland because they’re fucking useless). The quality has gone up and shit, Portugal had to go to pens with Slovenia. Either every major team is garbage simultaneously or we need to take “minor” teams more seriously.

Neat-Perspective-905

Germany haven’t even looked good either, that Denmark game was spectacularly close and arguably they were very lucky to get through. I think Spain is the only contender

chillywilly00

Quality has gone way down overall, sure there are quality players but the depth of quality is very shallow. Smaller teams have rigid systems where having talented game changers is less of a priority also

91_til_infinity

All the minnows seemed to have played excellently though. Which is why i wasn't entirely happy to see us in the minnows half of the draw. But lets see.

jackcos

Whilst I think the magic of those two goals vs Slovakia could be the catalyst to wake up our tournament, and the players look exhausted (same goes for many teams) it's a real shame that we're playing an actual well-organised side and not Portugal or France.

Ah well, I'm still holding out hope until that match is over. But we're not the worst team in this final 8, absolute miracle.

ghy-byt

It's a structural and balance issue and scoring goals can't really fix something that isn't a mentality problem.

GoGouda

The definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.

Royal-Pay9751

Least they have a decent rest between games

veifarer

As someone that has ties to Switzerland and England both, I’m split. Suppose I’ll just be neutral.

But I’ve said this before and I’ll say it now: Just because a team dominates on the pitch doesn’t mean they’re winners. You can play passively and still win. Italy during ‘82 is a prime example of this: 0-0 to Poland, 1-1 with Peru and Cameroon, still won 3-1 against West Germany.

Regardless of what team you support, have faith in your team. Don’t pass an opinion until your team actually gets knocked out.

Cazzer1604

Nothing more Swiss than being neutral!

ra_god94

France, Belgium, Netherlands, Italy all been shit too

lackadaisicallySoo

There are structural problems with our tactics, you should be paying attention to our a) lack of wing play b) lack of midfield build up

sansomc

I don't think literally anyone is claiming we've played well.

But we've made it through even with said problems, and until we're out we have a good chance.

I feel like so many people post predictions like "we'll be out as soon as we play someone decent" and for a lot of such posters, being right is more important than England progressing.

If England keep scraping through, will you eventually support the team?

lackadaisicallySoo

I already support the team, wholeheartedly.

My point is that if you have structural problems this basic you should address them. We don’t need to throw the baby out with the bath water but we need to fix our obvious weaknesses.

sansomc

I agree with most of that reply

taylorstillsays

What sort of their comment implied they didn’t support the team?

I feel like so many people are unable to see how fans can be honest about what’s being served to them and accuse anyone being honest of not supporting.

Sealeydeals93

You're spot on mate, a lot of people on this sub seem to be more interested in trying to post the most outlandish description of how bad we look, instead of actually wanting England to do well.

TheLastTsumami

This has been probably the worst quality tournament in my living memory. I don’t mean England, I mean the football in general. I should have been really excited for the France/Belgium game but I wasn’t because I just knew it would be a bag of wank and it really was. I think any team that is left in it has a fair chance of winning it. I think our biggest problem is we’re going to miss Guehi so much. He has been far and away our best player.

Big_AngeBosstecoglou

None of these teams are on the side of the bracket.

Whereas we have Switzerland and Austria who actually look really promising.

We’re not doing ok, just the big hitters are doing shit, us included. If we beat Switzerland I’ll change my tune but that’s a big fucking if

sansomc

Why not flip that, though? Get on board behind the team before the Switzerland match, and then (if we lose) get your criticisms in afterwards?

What's the benefit in getting all the criticism upfront?

WolIilifo013491i1l

Well the team need to do something to get us on board. It's not just a choice

sansomc

Naa not for me, so long as they're still in and have a chance I'm on board!

And if not that, I'll also take finishing top of the group, not losing any games in the group either.

And if not that, I'll get on board because they scrapped their way back in to the game with a brilliant goal in the last minute.

Honestly dude we're in the quarter finals of an international tournament. Don't waste this chance to support the team because you're too hung up on being right!

fromeister147

-3

Shut the fuck up.

don’t waste this chance to support the team because you’re hung up on being right

You’d best believe we’re still watching, still cheering every goal, arguing every card. We are here in full voice supporting.

We are also aware enough to recognize that if these clowns don’t get their act together they’re going to squander one of the best opportunities we’ve ever had at winning an international tournament. I don’t care that we’re in a QF when the goal is a trophy.

I watched the “golden generation” piss it away and our frustration stems from arguably an even better squad, putting in even less effort than those that came before them did. At least Beckham cared. At least Rooney cared. Terry and Ferdinand cared. Scholes and Gerrard cared.

These clowns are strolling around the pitch like they deserve to qualify because of the name on their back and we’ve had enough of being spoken to like we don’t know what we’re watching.

Southgate has to go after this tournament regardless of our finish, and we are NOT doing ok.

sansomc

Since you've been a dick, I'll also just say that I was around for mouth breathers like you to say all the same shit about the "golden generation" too.

"They don't care" / "there's no passion". Sick and tired of hearing it.

Sick of the arrogance that a 'fan' like you (who can't even stay positive on a damn online forum) cares more than the players too.

So carry on shouting at your TV if you think that's what it means to support the players. Not like they've specifically called out the difficulty of the overhwelming negativity.

I would put good money that you do more shouting abuse at the pixels on your screen than you do cheering.

fromeister147

I wish I could wander through life finding satisfaction in mediocrity but it’s not in my nature.

I took a cursory glance at your other comments in this post. While you’re spouting nonsense about “get behind the boys”, instead of “ask for more from the boys” you’re being downvoted to buggary. You’re in the minority that has found any satisfaction from the standard of play at this tournament so far. We’re watching the same crap that lost against Iceland. Twice. We’ve had enough and are justified in wanting to see world class players play like they do for their club teams.

Can’t wrap my head around how this is viewed as toxic or negative but, yeah. I’m the mouth breather 😂

sansomc

The lowest any of my comments are at in this post is at -1, so bit of a weird point to suggest I'm being downvoted to buggery. Even if they were all at -10, I'd still believe in what I'm saying.

Can’t wrap my head around how this is viewed as toxic or negative but, yeah

Look at the comment that I wrote that you told me to shut the fuck up for again. If you can't wrap your head around how you come across toxic there, then whatever.

Just constantly being negative isn't the enlightened super-intelligence you think it is. You think everyone else can't see the same problems you do too? You think others don't find it frustrating to watch either?

Literally the first paragraph of the original post acknowledges we've not played well. EVERYBODY KNOWS ALREADY JESUS.

I think you're an idiot, not because you think we've played badly, but because you lack the capacity to even process a little bit of positivity or hopefulness on this topic. And you compound this by going round constantly spouting the same shit that is repeated and upvoted endlessly on r/soccer like it makes you some kind of hero.

And I've sat near enough 'fans' like you at Wembley too. Idiots who shout at the players to "fucking pass it forwards you c****". Abuse that must sound clever to the people who shout it, but that helps absolutely no one. Idiots who undermined our team in the 90s, 2000s, 2010s, and who've now found themselves online too.

Muted_Mention_9996

We are still in the tournament but i don't think we are doing ok.

2018, 2021 and 2022 i felt like we were always in games, in this tournament it feels like we need miracles to win games. Literally all this attacking talent and we have drawn 3 games in a row. We look like an away team, with a shaky defence and attackers being starved of the ball because trippier has to cut inside on the left all game. That with saka mainly doing the same.

Stop being stubborn and put a natural winger in the starting 11 ffs.

JBM94

I keep thinking we’ll raise a level against a better team that comes out and presses us, maybe we’ll concede more but more attacking opportunities aswell. End of the day this is it, knock out football. Sink or swim.

Back the boys and let’s push on.

Ratiocinor

"Guys it's only the 1st game, and we won anyway! A lot of tournaments we don't even start with a win! We can build momentum from here"

"Guys it's only the 2nd game, at least it wasn't a loss! We can build momentum from here"

"Guy's it's only the 3rd game, we still topped the group! That's all that matters! Knockouts are a different story. We can build momentum from here"

"Guy's it's just the 1st knockout game, and we won in the end didn't we? We can build momentum from here"

How delusional can one subreddit be lmao. We're just not very good, something under Southgate isn't working. I want us to win obviously but I'm not holding my breath. This mythical change in momentum where we suddenly switch our entire system and start playing well has been promised after every game but I haven't seen any sign of it yet

SuperTekkers

Exactly! The performances aren’t going to improve and we’re facing a very solid Swiss team. I make them favourites after watching the Italy match.

Dello155

You say this but it's happened for soooo many teams (including us) in previous tournaments

Ok_Charity9544

-3

I mean we topped the group and won our knockout game. That’s what actually matters instead of random little quotes. We can beat Switzerland, hopefully they don’t set up in a low block like every other cunting team and we may have a chance of an open game.

CuteAnimalFans

England fans are continually in a bubble and it really is a mentality that this country needs to snap out of. The fans negativity has leaked to the team and I'm honestly a bit down about that.

GlennSWFC

I got downvoted on here on the day the tournament started for saying I wasn’t that excited, not because I thought we’d flop, but because the expectations have been set way too high and I can’t be arsed with the inevitable fallout if/when the most likely scenario of us getting knocked out at some point occurs.

I’ve not even had to wait for that. Yes, the performances have been underwhelming, the results not as comprehensive as they could have been and we look to be playing with very little shape or cohesion, but some of the stuff I’ve seen from our supposed fans has been so over the top.

Touched_By_SuperHans

The negativity is definitely impacting the camp. Don't think Lineker and Shearer helped by going in so hard, even though their criticism was accurate. We have a pretty young team who've mostly only known full support and good vibes during tournaments.

GlennSWFC

Lineker should have known better than to describe England as “shit” after two games. He’s been in that situation before and should know the potential impact that could have on the team. He played in 4 tournaments, across the opening two games of each of those, England didn’t win any of their games, lost 3 of them, scored 2 goals, played out 4 0-0 draws, Lineker didn’t score either of the goals and the most memorable impact he had on any of those 8 games was - quite literally - shit.

On the one hand, Lineker should know from winning one golden boot and reaching a semi final that those slow starts can soon pick up momentum. On the other hand with two group stage exits, he should be aware that he’s been part of two England squads who’ve done even worse. Either way, what he said was never going to have a positive impact on the squad.

AlanWardrobe

It did get some focus on the podcasts that his company produces, so there's that.

gilletprick

Its pathological at this point.

Im convinced its reason we’re always so shit

Spare_Ad5615

It's definitely unhelpful, but the truth is every country at the tournament is getting basically the same thing, all the traditionally big teams at least.

gilletprick

Yeah, to be honest its why im on the players side when they bite back. I dont care if theyre factually correct or not. The fact that someone in our team has some bollocks for once fills me with hope. None of this ‘we dont pay attention, we try and keep the camp media free’ bollocks.

No, look at it, get annoyed and let it light a fire in your cock.

Not reddit tho, they should stay the fuck away from this cesspool

UlteriorAlt

It's probably because we haven't won anything significant in several decades. That's unique among the big footballing nations. Plus we don't get blessed with many (or any) decent English managers.

But I feel there's extra pressure on this group because we got to the final last time, and the expectation (even if fans deny it) is that they can do it again but win. Southgate leaving is another point of pressure - some of the senior players will probably feel they need to win a trophy with him, regardless of how the fans view him.

Qeulon

-2

This right here! The sheer entitlement is insane as well. We haven’t been up to such standards I think we should be with our players, and we’ve not lived up to previous tournaments, especially under Southgate, but we’ve made a fourth consecutive quarter-final, we have kept two clean sheets, only conceded two goals, topped our group etc.

LibrarianAgreeable85

The results have been fine - the criticism of the performance has been totally warranted though, I haven't seen anything even vaguely unfair from the mainstream media

fre-ddo

They've held back, especially the live broadcasters. When what is in front of them is a team that absolutely struggles to create chances. Mainly down to the coaches tactics and team selection. We are almost guaranteed to see the same lineup other than CB again which will be darkly funny.

Qeulon

-5

The fans. The fans are entitled and think we should steamroll every tournament.

LibrarianAgreeable85

I personally don't know anyone who thinks like this? Every England fan I know has gallows humour and knows we're pretty poor. I don't think it's asking too much to want a coach to get better performance out of the players we've got though to be honest.

Qeulon

After the Denmark game they were screaming bloody murder. And also going on about the Croatia, Italy, and France games saying we bottled it. No, we didn’t bottle it. It’s such an entitled view to think that losing narrowly to all three of those is bottling it. All have very good players and Italy and France especially have rich histories in football. Out of the tens of teams in these tournaments fans just moan all of the time when we have been the most consistent international team since 2018.

LibrarianAgreeable85

Southgate's inaction in those games, particularly Italy, was absolutely a huge reason why we didn't win that game. To deny that would be to deny reality

SuperSalamander3244

We’re not doing ok and we’re still well below the level of France and Portugal. It does make me happy that they had scares though.

UberChew

Everyone is not great apart from spain they look pretty good.

ghy-byt

Germany has been really good too

BrowncoatSSJ

COME ON ENGLAND!!

Yes, but where on England?

tplambert

The face.

TheDeflatables

"to build our momentum"

Yeah.. about that...

HeartBackground1556

I like Konsa always looked pretty comfortable for England. He’ll be fine. Really would like to see no more trippier in the side now. Either Gomez or shaw 🤞 starts but surely shaw won’t be anywhere near ready. Or Walker switches to LB and Trent starts Rb. No more foden please off the left. Gordon as a starter. Freshen it up. That’s what the squads for right?

the3daves

It’s not ok. The opposition were not good enough to kill us off. For that reason alone, we got away with it. A world class finish and Kane’s header were the only two shots on target ( you can argue for Rice’s effort that hit the post to make it 3. ). We’re not doing ok, we’re slightly less worse than our opponents.

InformationUnited654

You’re out to Switzerland

llufnam

We’ll see, won’t we? This being the same Swiss team who…managed a draw against Scotland (arguably the worst performing team in the whole competition)

InformationUnited654

This being an England team, who drew against Denmark, were hanging on mostly against Serbia to get a win, and failed to score against the 57th ranked team Slovenia for a draw. Let’s not forget were 90 seconds from being knocked out by Slovakia.

They really need to get into competitive shape quickly, or the will go out playing a team not ranked outside the worlds top 20.

Yes Scotland were pish, but Switzerland played the holding champions (Sorry it’s not you) off the pitch to get through

AlbatrossDisastrous1

This being the same Swiss team who…managed a draw against Scotland (arguably the worst performing team in the whole competition)

..Arguably the worst team in the competition, after England.

gelliant_gutfright

Rubbish!!! England should have won the tournament by now. This is all the fault of Southgate and wokeness.

robbyreindeer

Was at the stadium and lost my voice supporting the team. Cant understand the twats that left early to beat the tram congestion. jokes on them really cos that jude goal moment will live with me forever.

throwawaysis000

LADS LADS LADS everyone's a LAD!
We're shite.

palacethat

We're really not, we look terrible in possession

mrnibsfish

This is like that meme of the dog whose sitting in his house while it burns down saying 'it's OK.'

We are not doing OK. We can barely create a chance from open play against Slovakia.

fromeister147

England have been mostly poor so far

We’ve been dyer. Awful to watch and seconds from being rightfully eliminated.

Spain and Germany have both absolutely taken the tournament by the scruff of the neck. This is a moronic take.

Do I want us to win? Absolfuckinglutely.

Should we win? Resoundingly no.

Are we doing ok? Luck will run out soon.

Dramatic-Coffee9172

Someone who is not deluded and can actually see the truth.

Key problems for England:

Plays safe EVERYTIME ! England should rename to Durex. Look at other teams, they run at defense, put the cross in and even if the ball don't reach a teammate, perhaps get an own goal (there's been plenty this Euros) but no, lets pass it sideways , backwards anything but upfront towards opposition goal. Just see the difference that Palmer brings when he was brought on. Tried to run towards goal every opportunity he had.
Linked partly to point 1 above is also because there is a lack of movement upfront so there isn't an option of forward passing. Static players with Kane being the sole striker being marked by 2 CB and Saka is also doubled up when he gets the ball. No Left wing play so opposition is sitting pretty there. No runners like Rashford or Sterling.

Look at Spain, Yamal on one side and Williams on the other, everytime they get the ball, you know they will run at goal. Then there is the overlap with the fullback with Cucurella and Carvajal That is the blueprint of attacking teams (Liverpool had Salah and Mane supported by Robertson and TAA who wreak havoc against all teams). Remember, the best form of defence is attack. The opposition will be too busy defending and expending energy chasing shadows to commit players forward or even think about attacking for fear of losing the ball and conceding when attacked.

Another linked problem is the slow transition of the ball. Just pedestrian passing, lack of urgency and attacking intent. Easy for the opposition to defend against by quickly getting back into formation and any glimmer of an opportunity is gone. The ball moves quicker than any human physically can, so just play the ball quicker.

England miss players that have the speed to unlock defense like Rashford / Sterling and creative players that can unlock defences like Maddison / Grealish. But even so, Southgate won't make those changes anyway even if those players were on the bench so its pointless. Nobody knows what is Southgate's strategy or game plan. It looks like play safe is the number 1 priority, keep the ball, and then hope and pray lady luck shines on the team. It's worked so far but its been terribly painful and frustrating to watch.

The game after the England match which was Spain vs Georgia reminded me of how exciting football is again.

fromeister147

I thought I was losing my mind. I’m racking up downvotes and it made me wonder if we’re even watching the same games!

Thank you for your support, friend 😂

Dramatic-Coffee9172

Don't worry, I get downvoted alot too. Those England fans just can't admit the truth and living in fantasy land and desperate to win something despite how terribly underperforming the team is. Probably never actually played any real competitive football.

kenbaalow

I disagree I think we've been Dier.

llufnam

-1

And yet one of them will be out on Friday. And both are on the opposite side of the draw

fromeister147

This sounds like the spewings of a man who’ll be proud of maybe reaching a semi final and nothing more.

We have arguably the most talented squad in the world.

Why are Declan Rice and Harry Kane snapping back at the media for rightfully asking questions about poor performance and telling us to wait and see what they can do, only for all of them to shrink the moment they cross the white lines?

We’ve had the core together for 5+ years. Why tf do they look like they’ve never met?

Why do we score and then decide we’ll roll the dice and play in our own 3rd against nothing teams from Europe?

Why do we start a RB who has literally NEVER started a game in midfield in the first game of a tournament when we’ve had AMPLE time to try him out there in completely inconsequential games?

Why do we leave home without a single fit left back? Better yet, why did we bring a left back that hasn’t played all season in lieu of bringing a rashford or grealish who although admittedly had stinkers this season, but both were more impactful than Shaw?

Why do we bring Palmer with 35+ goal involvements in a season and refuse to play him until this past game?

Why did we bring Ivan Toney to insultingly play him for 1 minute? And then have the manager have the gall to say “he was furious with me” and look bamboozled at the concept.

Why tf is Saka being asked to play as a LB?

Mate….. if this is ok to you, keep on liking #SouthgateIn posts and stop pretending everything’s fine. This has been a disaster.

stoneman9284

Yea getting outplayed by Slovakia for 95 minutes was pretty ok

Svengelska1990

I don’t think we were outplayed by them, we had about 75% possession in the second half IIRC, also Slovakia beat Belgium in the group so I don’t think they’re that bad of a team. Just cos we didn’t play well doesn’t mean they did.

Yahut

-2

We didn’t have a shot on target until an overhead kick in the 95th minute mate

oljackson99

They didnt outplay us, they sat back and defended very well. We were poor, but to say they out played us isnt right.

Treqou

Sheer dumb luck. It’ll run out eventually once we actually play a tier 1 nation…

Ok-Constant-6056

Why is Portugal even listed here? Martinez is a clown, the moment he got the job they stopped being a threat.

Spam250

They won all 10 qualifiers with a +34 goal difference, they are absolutely a massive threat.

BNWOfutur3

True

ScottOld

I mean the performances of the teams in our group maybe show it wasn’t the disaster it feels like, Denmark were robbed against Germany by that soft handball and Portugal drew 0-0 just now with the other team from our group

Gooner-Astronomer749

The excuses for us must stop if something isn't working you change it you don't say we suck but let's be grateful were here and others are poor too. The only standard we should judge ourselves by is our own high standards. We are now playing a team who is firing on all cylinders without major changes or creativity and structure we will be throughly embarrassed.

Your-Pal-Dave

What does Southgate taste like

llufnam

Chicken

Life-Duty-965

I feel like defenders have got better at defending more so than our attackers have got good at attacking.

There haven't been many goals across the tournament, is that my imagination or do the stats show that.

Is tournament football just a bit... broken? Everyone plays defensively and the players are hot and tired.

I almost want them to make the goal a bit bigger to make things a bit more exciting. I'm only half joking too.

In all seriousness, the standard just seems more even than ever so no "good" team should be expected to breeze through.

lunch-money

Don’t admit it. The longer we say we are shit, the further we go, even in the final we need to be like ‘WHY WONT SOUTHGATE DROP FODEN’. It’s an unwritten law that we cannot believe we are going to win or we will go out. Southgate knew this and that’s why he’s made his tactics so shit.

He has come close, but I feel he could perfect the shit tactics with great players this tournament and make the whole country believe we won’t win. He knows it’s the only way.

Working-Toe827

Spain? Look good going forward, but conceded to Georgia. 50/50 going home after Friday.

have you even been watching the games? hahahahahaha.

llufnam

Yes. But they are playing the host nation on Friday, who have been playing as well as anyone and better than most. So, yes, Spain have a 50/50 chance of going home after that game

Working-Toe827

The only goal they've conceded was a lucky own goal. Spain fielded a pure B-Team to deal with Albania and looked more structured and drilled than England's starting 11.

llufnam

…and yet, as it seems you won’t acknowledge, they could well be out of the tournament on Friday. Don’t underestimate home advantage.

Working-Toe827

In relation to England it doesn't really matter though, if we scrape past the Swiss, Rangnick's men will be there to put the final nail in Southgate. We don't touch the final mate.

Mrgray123

No. Teams that are doing well don’t have to rely on miracle equalizers in the 94th minute against second tier opposition.

LicketySquitz

Not really.

Vice932

I actually think in a weird way we have the harder draws. The teams you wouldn’t think would do well are over performing while all the major nations are underperforming.

I think we’d have beaten that Italian or Portuguese teams if we had them. Maybe even France too since they offered nothing going forward. It’s odd I feel more comfortable about those teams than I do Switzerland or Austria

Custodian_Malyxx

We scored 2 goals in the qualifiers no? Simply not good enough. My partner is portugese so come on portugal

fre-ddo

Yes low standards all round the domestic season is a good leveller.

Special-Dig-4293

We've gotten this far because of the quality of our players which can overcome the poor descions Southgate makes. But the quality will only take us so far. But the advantage we have is the other top teams are also not preforming. I'm hoping the momentum we have can ignite a spark in the team. Playing good early usually runs out of steam, so playing badly and getting this far is an advantage

mitzibishi

Then if we do win the thing it's being set up as the easiest tournament ever, with the least good teams it.

Maybe the smaller teams are way more competent now than a few years ago.

Ok_Bug_3240

The difference is all they teams listed have played with more energy and at least looked like scoring. However we never really look threatening going forward and there’s no real plan. The build up play is slow and predictable. The players don’t seem to understand what they’re supposed to be doing and some are playing out of position they look lost.

Old_Muggins

Love this!!!!

CheveningHouse

Germany and Spain are clearly miles ahead of us. The other though have been equally poor or worse. I do agree that overall we aren’t as shit as the doomsayers think.

manntisstoboggan

Playing a defensive game with one of the best attacking sides in the world. Classic Southgate.

GaijinFoot

All I know is my gut says maybe

InfinitiveGuru

This is the most delusional thing I have saw. Both Germany and Spain will destroy England. Portugal, France, Netherlands will comfortably beat England. England have only won one game (1-0) in the four games they have played in 90 mins. All against low ranked opposition. The idea that they are anywhere near close to winning this is absurd.

llufnam

Well only one of Germany, Spain, Portugal and France will have a chance to “destroy” us if we get to the final. 3 of those will already be out. And if we’re in the final by that stage then we will have improved enough to get there.

Agreed, Holland (or whoever we meet it the in Semi’s) will be tough for us should we get past Switzerland, but each result builds momentum and belief within the squad.

InfinitiveGuru

England and Switzerland and the two weakest teams left in the tournament.

llufnam

Well then, we stand a chance of winning on Saturday don’t we?

InfinitiveGuru

Yes.

bluecheese2040

But take stock and find another team taking this tournament by the scruff of the neck…

Germany? Home team advantage, but largely untested. 50/50 staying home after Friday.

Spain? Look good going forward, but conceded to Georgia. 50/50 going home after Friday.

France? No goals from open play except OGs.

Portugal? Not beating (so far) the team we got pilloried for not battering.

Belgium? Italy? Tot ziens and arrivederci.

No sorry...we aren't comparing ourselves with others. We compare ourselves with where we know we can be and how we do it.

We've been shite. We've been so lucky to be where we are and it's through having quality players not tactics.

We're like a cyclist peddling as fast as possible but not in gear

EdAlex1993

U mad 😂 man saying we doing okey

llufnam

No, I’m not mad and yes, we’re doing OK. We’re in the last 8 teams from the starting 24. To make the final we need to beat Switzerland, then either Turkey or Holland. It’s hardly a fucking disaster, is it?

ollieusher

I'd say we've scraped by so far. The Swiss are over achieving and players like Granit Xhaka will want to prove a point

GroundbreakingCook71

Yep. In the quarter finals with a decent chance of making another final. I swear some people are never happier than when they’re moaning.

RitmanRovers

20h

Cmon England!!

Charming-Awareness79

The most you can say is England are still in the tournament, the reason that's the case is they haven't played anyone good yet.

Switzerland on Saturday will be a sterner test - the fact we're concerned about Switzerland says a lot.

The issue is not that England play defensively - Southgate has always coached England that way and has got better results than most of his predecessors. In previous tournaments England have been solid at the back but have created chances and deserved the wins they got. That hasn't been the case this time, they've been leaky at the back and haven't created enough going forward.

The issues are actually pretty obvious. There's a lack of width - you have Saka and Foden both wanting to come inside, and no overlapping fullbacks. Trying to play both Foden and Bellingham in the attacking midfield line, whilst having no fit left back in the squad, is creating the imbalance. What should be happening, in my view, is Bellingham should be playing beside Rice in the middle, with licence to bomb forward, Foden in the middle and Gordon on the left. At the back, Walker should shift across to the left and TAA should play at right back. That should provide more balance, more support from wide and should stretch oppositions more and create more chances. I also think that this would not compromise the team defensively - I don't think Bellingham and Rice is a defensive downgrade from Mainoo and Rice, TAA is primarily an attacking right but Liverpool have hardly been defensively suspect whilst he's been playing there.

tazcharts

Absolute copium. We have been garbage for all 4 games. No signs of improvement. What makes it worse is the manager is out of his depth so can't make changes or can't see that he needs to make changes. Playing the same team 4 games in with minor tweaks is embarrassing. Not making changes at half time when we were out of the game v Slovenia. Disregard other teams, we should be better and the failure will be down to the manager

spiritofbuck

Didn’t France score from open play today?

I’m absolutely on board. We are going to grind it out and reach the final.

GreatStats4ItsCost

Was an OG wasn’t it?

NotAnotherAllNighter

No, it was an own goal so don’t think it counts

spiritofbuck

Fair enough, so it was.

Relative_Schedule892

I dont know how he will reshuffle the defence with guehi missing.

If shaw is fit he can play CB but it is too risky, possibly shift kyle walker to CB Play saka RB

Then it means giving palmer a chance

I think foden has been very poor but he will not drop him

The swiss are well organised England will struggle

Other_Beat8859

We all know who's replacing Guehi. Lewis Dunk.

Jackhammer3012

The Dunkmeister will score a 95th minute winner in the final

NotQuiteEnglish01

Joe Gomez. He's been solid for Liverpool and is perfectly capable of flexing to fullback if necessary.

stillnessinthestorm

We are shit

matt3633_

This revisionism is crazy. We should be out right now and it’s incredible that we didn’t lose to Slovakia

User deleted comment

llufnam

Do you remember our almost last minute fluke against Belgium in 1990? Or the shit show against Cameroon in the same tournament? And yet…one of our most fondly remembered World Cups

sansomc

Did you read anything from their post, though? You can come up with lazy dismissals for the other teams, too - Portugal only just came through on penalties now.

It's one thing that 'fans' like you spam messages like this in the endless negativity posts, but you could at least think about your reply for a differing opinion.