Formal offer - when is the best time to bring up salary negotiations?

Hi all,

Accepted a provisional offer, passed PEC and awaiting SC.

May I know if I should only bring up things like annual leave, salary etc after formal offer is made?

I am aware that most posts here mentioned it will be difficult to negotiate salary but there were some external candidates who mentioned they were successful at it.

So my question to those who have been successful/know someone who has been successful in negotiating salary or annual leave: when is the time to bring this up?

Thanks!

Edit: Thanks for all your responses, I am fully aware of how 'impossible' it is to negotiate salary/annual leave etc (as indicated in the 3rd para of my post). However, having trawled through this subreddit, and various other forums, I know it could be done.

There is no harm in giving it a try is how I see it - my question, I suppose I did not articulate clearly, is thus: When is the best time to bring these items up? Not How, What, Why or What's the outcome. Just thought i'd clarify :D

in TheCivilServiceby Forward_Chipmunk_508

22%

2.7y

HELMET_OF_CECH

Deputy Director of Gimbap Enjoying

2.7y

You have more chance having tea with the Queen - randomly getting more annual leave when everyone in the department had to earn more through length of service is just 😂

Forward_Chipmunk_508

2.7y

lol, well, my question was more on 'when' to bring up the subject.. not so much how/whether i will be successful.... i dont see asking for annual leave matching as random, or at least not in the private sector, people make that request all the time!.. besides i did come across a number of posts on here and other forums mentioning that their annual leaves (from external into civil service) were matched cf the pay cut or something along those lines hence I am sure it can be done in certain cases... no harm asking is how i see it, hence my question on when to ask

Tweddhead

2.7y

Here's how a salary negotiation goes:

"I'd like £x please"

"Yes I'd love to give it to you but policy says I can only give you £Y"

Y < X

Thanks for playing....

Forward_Chipmunk_508

2.7y

hahaha thanks! well, no harm asking i guess :D

Space_Cowby

SEO

2.7y

Negotiating more annual leave ? I would say zero chance and salary only slightly higher.

greencoatboy

Red Leader

2.7y

I have, by exception, approved both.

For annual leave I recognised public sector service so that the person counted as if all their continuous service with the NHS was in the civil service, so they started on the same amount of leave they had in the NHS.

I also recognised their NHS guaranteed pay progression and started them on the same amount they'd had got if they'd stayed in the NHS.

However I was only allowed to do that because before the recruitment campaign we'd used a labour market survey to show that the specialist roles we were recruiting for were both rare and paid more than normal for the grade. We'd also built into the criteria and process tests of specific technical skills.

So when the request was made we'd already persuaded HR that it was reasonable and all I had to do was negotiate the numbers.

FWIW I also paid the existing civil servants from the same campaign the same as the NHS chap, even though this was above the minimum of the scale.

greencoatboy

Red Leader

2.7y

Probably worth mentioning that I've done it exactly once out of hundreds of campaigns.

In that role I was responsible for recruiting or promoting about 600 people over a three year period.

I've been recruiting people since the end of the 90s, mostly at a lower rate, apart from a large operational recruitment where we recruited 2,000 people in six months.

Forward_Chipmunk_508

2.7y

Hey, thanks for that - may I know at what point should the discussions be made? someone here pointed out that since I've accepted my provisional offer, it's too late now... is that the case? Will I commit a huge faux pas if I were to bring the subject up now? I've not broached it before as my HM made it clear that my appointment is not confirmed until all checks and clearances are obtained.

greencoatboy

Red Leader

2.7y

Now or never

Alchenar

2.7y

Are you literally the sole expert in the world in your professional area? Then you may negotiate salary successfully.

If not then you are about to rapidly learn your place in the order of things.

Forward_Chipmunk_508

2.7y

hahahaha i like your humour - well, to answer your question: I am!! thank you for your reassurance :p

AlluringZebra

2.7y

The only thing I managed to wangle coming into the CS was a change in contract type from FTA to permanent. Salary and AL entitlement is pretty non-negotiable, unless you have an amazingly well crafted and evidenced business case for it.

Forward_Chipmunk_508

2.7y

OK, thanks for that :)

Traditional_Bit_9671

2.7y

You can actually negotiate additional annual leave in some circumstances. I have a reasonable adjustment that I don't have to take time for certain types of appointment and work it back as Flexi. It's logged in a particular way and I have to have some proof, but it effectively gives me more leave as with previous employers I have had to book Annual Leave or work the time back, now the department essentially just absorbs that time.

Forward_Chipmunk_508

2.7y

Hey- thanks for that, at what point did you discuss about adjustments? Someone mentioned it should be done at the provisional offer stage which I suppose the ship has sailed for me... but none of these items were in my provisional offer though hence I thought it'd come later.. (i've not had previous public sector experience.. and it is definitely not unreasonable to negotiate salary, annual leave, perks etc vigorously at formal offer stage)

Traditional_Bit_9671

2.7y

You can discuss adjustments at any time. You could have been in your role 5 years and bring it up. Companies like you to declare it at application stage but you have no obligation to and they cannot allow a later declaration to affect the adjustments you get. I raised it when discussing my start date as I also needed some equipment ordered. In the past I have raised it a various points but never pre -offer

SloppyC

2.7y

As most replies point out it can be, difficult if not impossible for some to negotiate salary and leave, although I have seen it happen. As far as I'm aware the best time would have been before accepting the provisional offer, as there is a lot of HR and business case working in the background that may need to be agreed.

The best thing to do is ask your recruiter/contact now.

Forward_Chipmunk_508

2.7y

Hey, thanks for that - will broach the subject with them.

User deleted comment

2.7y

Forward_Chipmunk_508

2.7y

hahahah thanks for your encouragement!! at what point should the negotiations be made? I am external hence have absolutely zero experience on how civil service recruiting works...

I am definitely aware of the near impossibility of salary negotiation based on what I've read on here (and on mumsnet lol) but it has been done in some cases (again, based on what I've read)... there's no harm in trying I suppose..

User deleted comment

2.7y

Forward_Chipmunk_508

2.7y

thanks for that :) I'll try, no harm asking

Ok-Illustrator-8272

5mo

Hello OP, I am in the same situation you were in 2 years ago, entering externally. Are you able to share the outcome of this, whethercyou succesfully negotiayed and what your experience was? (I know it was a long time ago now, sorry!) Really appreciate any guidance! Thanks, OP