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brother is on social security and he started working last year can manager legally overwork him even though she's been told he's on social security and he cannot work over 20 hours
This happened to my son. He needs to quit this job and have a job coach find him a different part time job that will respect his hours. My son lost his ssi, and they charged him for his hours that exceeded the 20 hours a week. He ended up owing them thousands of dollars. We contacted a local politician who dealt with disabled and she straightened it out. Now he has a better job and is respected. (PS the job that made him work too many hours was the DMV!)
This is between him and his employer.
My brother is a little slow and he has told her several times she's not willing to work with him
Then he needs to find a new employer or request reasonable accommodations
Perhaps he needs to find a different job
He must find a different job. And he must do so immediately.
Then he needs to work just to his 20 hrs then leave. And not come back until the next week. Call in if there are days scheduled past 20 hrs. Managers only do what they get away with.
Then it's time he quits and finds a place that will respect his availability. I have a cashier on disability at work & we all make sure she doesn't work over 20 hrs a week, no matter how short-handed we end up being due to call-outs or whatever. She can't lose her disability and be able to support herself & all of the management staff know of her situation and work hard to ensure she doesn't lose that.
If he's in an at will employment state, he has no rights. They can let him go for any reason.
So if they want him to work and he says no... then they can fire him.
I thought every state was at will? Or maybe 1 isnt?
Montana isn't.
Is it a corporate business? Corp needs to be notified. They get tax incentives for hiring SSID hires, losing him won’t just hurt his coworkers or stress that moron manager- it’ll effect the Corp bottom line!
Yup
Is he unable to work 20 hours because of his disabling condition, or because it will cause him to lose disability benefits? If it is his disabling condition, he needs to speak with HR or his job coach. If it is so he doesn't lose benefits, then he probably should not be on benefits.
This is what I was thinking. My asshole neighbor keeps her hours low for her disability and she’s perfectly capable of working. She is not disabled (she told me this), and has been on disability (for reasons she doesn’t say in her overshare) since she was a teenager. It’s disgusting.
^ 100% this.
This is a really frustrating post, because not once have you said he can’t do it because of his actual disability, instead you’ve repeatedly said it’s because he receives disability benefits and doesn’t want to work too much so he doesn’t lose it.
Qualifying for disability benefits is hard, and because her brother qualified, it’s safe to assume he is disabled. (Yes, there are individual scammers, but they are a tiny percentage of those who get benefits.) This post could have been me, asking for my nephew who has schizophrenia (managed with meds) and cerebral palsy, which limits how long he can stand up without severe pain. He cannot live on disability benefits alone, so he has to work if he wants to eat and have a roof over his head.
Employers pull this shit on him all the time—they’re understanding when they hire him, then a month or two later they’re scheduling him extra hours and off we go again. It’s terribly discouraging for him.
I am aware of the process and the difficulties in qualifying. I’m also aware of fraud and don’t need a story from internet strangers. Thanks.
Then why are you on Reddit, princess? All it offers is stories from internet strangers.
Stalker.
Lmao not a stalker you’re just not a nice person.
No laws I know of in regard to hours and adults. Has he tried saying No and this is why? Might be the easiest way and if it doesn’t work I quit and this is why.
If he's on SSI, make sure someone is reporting his wages monthly or he'll end up with a large overpayment and that can cause a lot of different problems in the future.
Okay, so, look, the thing about disability is that it's there for people whose disabilities are so disabling that they are unable to work enough hours to support themselves financially. One of the most important reasons why so many people get denied ssi ssdi is because ssa will say "okay you have mental disabilities, so why don't you work a job that isn't mentally strenuous." Your brother is proving that his mental disabilities aren't strenuous enough that he can't work a full time job, so he does not quality for disability. It would be fraudulent for him to get a job that only works him 20 hours a week in order to keep his benefits becsuse he is able to work a full time job.
I don't know why people keep telling you different things, but this is what it comes down to. He's physically able to work 40 hours a week, so he doesn't qualify for disability and your household should not be limiting his ability to work because you rely on a check from ssa.
This is terrible advice. Often, the disability status opens doors for other services, housing, medical, disability support services, that enable the person to live and work in the community. If they lose disability status, they lose all the supports that enable them to work, so they then have to go through a period of homelessness , reapply for disability status and services, and it wil take years to get back to the point where they are living independently and able to work even part time.
The most important thing, if a person is disabled, is maintain status to access disability support benefits, and medical coverage. Going off and on of disability is incredibly expensive and harmful to the system and families that need them.
This is terrible advice? This is the information I was given from the SSA. Also, its such bullshit when families make people stay on disability because they need the paycheck.
I get it, you want to go back to the days when families were incentivized to abandon their disabled relatives, rather than care for them, gotcha.
.. so, your remedy for that is giving these families an incentive not to do that?? Like, we shouldn't be incentivizing anything. I'll be God damned if someone sees my ass as a paycheck. I'd rather be put in a home, frankly.
I can't believe that you think we should be giving these motherfuckers an incentive to care for their disabled family member.. and how that's somehow better than giving them the incentive to send them away???
Also, we don't have places to send those people anymore, so, you'd also have to reinstate those things. Basically, you're an idiot for many reasons.
By the way you talk about it, you aren’t disabled, you don’t live with anyone who is disabled. I’d encourage you to spend time with disabled people in your community, and listen to them discuss the challenges within the current system before opining on the subject. You don’t even know what you don’t know yet.
lmfao.
I don't live with anyone disabled?
BITCH, I AM THE DISABLED.
You'd encourage me to spend time with disabled people in my community?
BITCH, I AM LITERALLY IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING MY NATIONAL CERTIFICATION FOR AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE INTERPRETING - I AM NEVER AROUND NON-DISABLED PEOPLE
Frankly, I think that you are absolutely atrocious in believing that disabled people should be seen as a paycheck. You should hear all of the disabled people whose family use and abuse them because of that government check. You should hear all of the disabled people whose families do limit their ability to work and be independent because they control the money. Why do you think everyone on here tell people that require a payee not to use a family member?? You're fucking disgusting while acting like you're not speaking from out of your ass.
I’ve been living disabled with and without family for 25 years. I’m in dialysis, and a bka. I’ve also run a business and had special needs kids. Your framing as “seeing them as a paycheck” is gross and abusive. The families of disabled people absolutely deserve support for the work and service they provide to their disabled family members. The issue of abuse of disabled family members is exacerbated when there’s no support, oversight, or engagement from disability support systems. That’s one reason why losing disabled status can be catastrophic for people with disabilities, and why it’s important for OP’s brother to not be forced to work over their hourly limit, so they don’t become cut off from resources and support outside their family. Am I safer if I don’t have a caseworker? Am I safer if I don’t have an outside home health worker in the home? The drive to get people off disability, to shrink the system and force them to work full time results in disabled people being less supported and able to maintain housing, medical care , and causes them to fall out of the workforce long term.
Until disability supports are no longer dependent on disability status, maintenance of that status is a primary concern for long term health and well-being.
Right, so your personal opinion is that we should fraudulently continue disability benefits. That's your bottom line here. The SSA tells people that you might have mental disabilities, but you can still do a job that is more physically demanding. This persons brother is showing them that he can handle full time work at a physical Job. He isn't telling the manager he can only work 20 hours because he personally can't handle more or it's too much of a strain on his body or mind or is somehow harming his wellbeing - he is saying he can't work more than 20 hours because his family needs his disability check. I'm sorry, but you think that that is okay? This person can work, but is being told not to because his family can't get their shit together and pay their own way?
You need to stop. It is gross and abusive for families to see disabled people as a paycheck. You think that my family should get paid for taking care of me? Well, if someone is going to get paid to care for me, then I'd rather be in a home where it's someone's job and not their moral and legal obligation. That's why I've never even considered letting my family be my state paid caregiver.
It’s not fraudulent. You’re saying he should go off disability because he currently has the support to work 40 hours, then when his support is pulled, he loses the job, has to re-apply for benefits, get the support back , then work 40 hours again, then lose the supports, then re-apply, and so on. That’s bad for him, his community, his health, and frankly, more expensive and difficult for the system to process. He needs the supports. He should do what he needs to do to maintain the support he needs.
I can go work a 40 hour week and lose my disabled status, but that doesn’t negate my need for dialysis, whether or not I’m working 40 hours, and it not having my insurance paid for by the disability system doesn’t mean that I’m eligible for ACA coverage. It just means I’m racking up massive bill, and limiting my acres to necessary care.
You can argue that the system should be better at letting people work kore when they are receiving sufficient support, but it doesn’t. In the current system, maintaining of status is critical to long term care and health outcomes.
I appreciate that you have strong feelings regarding people, their disabilities, and working, but you are not correct in your assumptions.
To qualify for social security disability insurance (SSDI) you must have a medical condition that will keep you from working at least a year and/or will end in death. You must not work until you have been approved for SSDI.
Once you have been approved however, the social security administration has programs that allow you to rejoin the workforce. There are limits on how much money you can make while you are working, it is not based on the hours worked.
This is just the tip of the iceberg of the thousands of rules that come with SSDI. I just want you to know that what you are feeling so strongly about is simply an opinion, your opinion. And it's okay to have an opinion. But please don't put it out there as fact, because the majority of what you state is not fact.
The limits exist because if you go over them, Social Security law/policy states you should not be reliant on a disability payment as you are able to work and earn a living.
Yes, the limit that actually exists is laughably low, but the person you're replying to is correct about the purpose of the policy.
Based on the information we are given here, OP's relative is perfectly capable of working full time, but wants to work 20 hours because this keeps their earnings under the limit. This is not uncommon at all with disabled workers, but if done is technically fraud against SSA; it's the same as pretending you can't work while initially applying.
This is what I've been told by SSA representatives.
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14d
SSDI has a higher income limit than OP stated so his brother is on SSI.
And he'll lose benefits if he keeps working over the limit.
If he can work 40 hours (which he can because he is) he doesn’t need social security
It’s not a free money glitch…..
OP said he has mental disabilities.
The reason why people get denied disability most often is because SSA will see that they have either mental or physical disabilities and say that they need to work a job that is less mentally or physically challenging. The fact that he can work 40 hours shows that his mental disabilities can be reasonably accommodated for.
As someone who isn't disabled, I can work 100hr/week... for about 1 week before I have a mental breakdown and would rather be homeless than put up with abusing myself like that.
Just because this guy can work one or two weeks at 40hr doesn't mean it's a good long-term situation.
Right, but that doesn't matter to the SSA. What matters to the SSA is that he can work that much right now. If that changes, he can reapply. What you feel or think about the rules doesn't matter because it changes nothing. If the SSA audited him right now, he would still have to pay back the thousands of dollars that he recieved while working those hours. And, OP isn't concerned about her brothers long term wellness. They're concerned that their household is going to lose the dudes disability check.
Wrong, can he do it for 30 days, not 2 weeks.
And? If he can work 40 hours he doesn’t need Social Security. I got mental health issues and I take meds that allow me to work so I don’t get disability because I can WORK
Medication that personally helps you doesn’t mean that it can help everyone. You of all people should know and understand that mental health illnesses affect people differently and there are such things as severe mental health disorders and even treatment resistant. You should be glad that you can still work and don’t have a severe enough mental health condition that can stop you from living a fulling life. So judgmental. I take meds and work so should you.
This guy can work too, for evidence I will show the post that says he is actually working 40 hours a week…….smh
This☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️
I think there is more to the story. Part time is part time. Pending the state part-time is less than 30 hours.
Tell him to look for a job or get a spine and tell the employer he will not work that many hours, or tell them days and hours available....this way there's no conflict
Since he's made over the $1100 a month, he's no longer eligible for SS. That was a pretty clear statement when he went in but was clearly ignored. By both of them. I'm not sure why he didn't he say no. Doesn't sound like he has reported the change in income as of yet. He'll also lose his health insurance once it's reported 😥. He just proved he physically "can" work. Which is an accomplishment when being told you can't. Between that and the money, I'm sure it felt good to be productive. Just sadly, it was at a cost. Does the job over health insurance?
I don't understand how anyone is forcing him to work. If he can't handle that many hours then he needs to tell his boss how many hours he's willing to work.
The Boss is paying you to work. I work 12 hours a week and if they schedule me for more I call them and tell them no and please don't schedule me again.
Sometimes I try to work more because I want more money and to see if I can... I have not told my boss that I have disabilities because I don't have to. I just tell him when and how I can work.
But if a boss needs you to work 28 hours a week and you can only work 20, that becomes your problem. You may have to quit so that they can find someone who can work more hours. Or they can fire you and hire someone who can work. It's not that complicated. But it's nice that you have a boss who can work around your needs and wants.
You need to be upfront when you apply for the job and tell them how much you can work. No one was surprised about what I wanted in the job because I put it on my application.
I know it is tough. You shouldn't have to try so hard but in this world it's necessary. You have to advocate for yourself and those around you.
I’m just curious: Do you write everything with no capitalization or periods?
Maybe they're doing speech to text and don't say "period", so it's just one long sentence.
Then they go back and fix it afterward.
It’s your job to communicate clearly, not your reader’s job to figure out what you’re trying to say.
I agree
ASS.,.
Yes.
An employer can't fire you for being disabled. But that's not why your brother would be fired. Your brother has to be careful about how much he earns because of Social Security. He could be fired for not working as many hours as his employer expects him to work.
Most states are "at will" states. Employers can fire you for wearing the wrong color nail polish if they want to.
Is your brother on ssdi? If so, is he doing ticket to work?
I recommend that he signs up for the gig apps. He could control his earnings that way. Employers will take advantage.
Your state’s P&A might be a good resource.
For the most part, this is between him and his employer. I doubt there's any kind of contract, for an hourly job. However if it is only during holiday season, intermittently, it may not be the same degree of concern as you think it is. I'm a bit far removed from counseling people in SSDI benefits, but there is a policy which involves taking the average monthly earnings over the year to determine if the work performed is or is not Substantial Gainful Activity, even if some months on their own are over the limit. It would be worth seeking out a Benefits Counselor, either through a state vocational rehab program, or the Ticket to Work; Work Incentives Planning and Assistance program (WIPA) in your state. There's much that can be learned which may help your brother maximize what he can do, to maintain benefits or see if there is a satisfactory way to working off of some benefits too.
Just don't work more than 20hrs. Tell them no more than 20 or I quite.
What’s his disability? Does he get SSDI or SSI?
He has two options, quit that job and find another one that can respect that he is disabled, or work full-time and lose his disability benefit. It sucks, but that's how it is.
IANAL but in my opinion, this wouldn’t be something to request a reasonable accommodation over. Unless they have a policy that states like all employees must work 30+ hours a week, he has a contract stating how many hours a week he will work, or something like that if you’re in an at will state your employer has a lot of leeway on what they can schedule you. Has anybody tried to talk to the manager and let them know that he cannot work over 20 hours a week without jeopardizing his Social Security? Sometimes people are just ignorant and don’t know and think that they’re “helping” by giving more hours when in reality they’re being detrimental.
My brother has told her several times that he cannot work over 20 hours that he is on social security it has put a lot of stress on the house because we do not know if he's going to lose his disability check
Then your brother needs to quit that job, and look for a different one.
Pronto..before he gets screwed
"reasonable accommodation " the term people are throwing around usually only refers to things an employer must do in order for a disabled person to work their job. It's not about reducing hours to protect benefits. The only real option is to talk to Corporate HR since this is a major chain, leave the job or simply let them know he will work the first 20 hours he is scheduled then go home for the rest of the work week. And if they can't live with that they will be even more short handed then they obviously are.
He need to quit that job and fine a job that will let him work 20 hours
FINE another job, or “find” another job?
Yes, he will definitely lose benefits if he is on SSI and working 24-40 hour weeks. If he works 21 hour weeks he will lose benefits. And it will be harder to get them back because he has proven that he can work 40 hours.
Sounds like this might be a manager who considers herself the "disability police" and has successfully sabotaged his benefits. I wonder if she's done this to others?
Do you or anyone else that lives in the house work too? How many are living in THE HOUSE? And IF other adults are living in THE HOUSE besides your brother? And WHY, if your brother is mentally disabled are you and whoever else that lives there having him work at all?
It’s morally and legally WRONG for a person capable of working 40 hours a week to o ONLY want to work 20 hours a week, just because THE HOUSE doesn’t want him to lose his SSI, because THE HOUSE wants his paycheck AND his SSI.
Shitty managers will tend to overwork their more reliable employees, that's between him and his employer as mentioned already, I doubt anything can be done about it.
Maybe consult an attorney that's competent in ADA laws, no idea if that'll help or hurt.
He needs to have his boss write & sign that she will not work with him on less hours & if he has doctors notes/letters stating he is limited to X amount of hours & has a case worker with SSI he needs to contact his case worker from SSI & send her both the letter from the boss & the letters from the doctor.
He need to fine another job that will let him work 20 hours not 40
FINE another job, or “find” another job?
Maybe his boss needs a phone call from the Social Security Administration or the US Labor Board. Might even add in the Americans with Disabilities counselor. Should be a nice little gathering.
How does he go about requesting reasonable accommodations because he said he told her several times he could only do 20 hours a week
He’s told her so I think his only recourse is going to be to find another job. It is not worth getting into overpayments or triggering reviews. He has 9 trial work months in a 5 year period where he can make more, but this sounds as if it would be ongoing. What is his age and disability?
Is this a small business or a big company? If it’s a big company, HR should be involved. Otherwise he’ll need to quit (and she will have to hire someone anyway?!?) Your brother should not risk losing eligibility… too difficult to get back on… and this dick of a manager could terminate him on a whim. Don’t let this manager f#ck with your brother’s future
Kroger, a major grocery chain.
Kroger's grocery store he used to work at a different one in a different city he actually worked there 10 years had to quit when my grandmother passed away probably stopped working for 5 years and decided he wanted to work again when we moved to another city never had an issue with the other Kroger he worked at
Is this the General Manager doing this? He either needs to go to the GM and state he will lose all benefits if they work him over 20 hours and if it happens again he will have to quit.
This is not acceptable, he could not only lose his disability pay but also lose all his health benefits. If he has issues take him in when he’s off work and speak to the GM. These people saying he has to deal with it himself are ridiculous. He is a disabled adult, he is allowed to have an advocate. If they start giving you problems about including you then ask them if they would prefer to deal with his case worker.
What that manager is doing qualifies as abuse of the disabled. Google abuse of a disabled adult and get the contact info for your area. She’s breaking the law and taking advantage of your brother. Time to put a stop to it.
Lots of good points here.
Can you join him in I talk with his manager? I know sounds weird like child-parent but maybe the manager will take it seriously if she sees she’s jeopardizing his benefits.
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Thar is between him and his employer, and if he has doctors notes showing that he's limited to 20 hours, that opens up a new can of worms. If he wants, he can always leave that job for another that will accommodate his availability.