How much do you have and how much do you need to be wealthy?
There was an article years ago that asked people this and inevitably people felt real wealth was about twice their net worth.
I'd like to add fuck me money. Money where I can go fuck up and get myself out of trouble either by hiring great lawyers or some other method. Example: John smacked the shit out of that guy and got arrested. That is ok John has fuck me money.
Based on your username, you're a badass. Thank you.
I thought about that. But I nearly killed several people, just with my hand. So I know lawyers won’t work. Because that was before I ever even looked at a weight 😔
lol sure thing kid
DiveJumpShooterUSMC is the greatest user name ever. My user name indicates that I eat too much giardiniera when I’m stoned and 💩🔥when I least expect it…
Reflecting an earlier response, to me those are oligarch conversations. I say 8 digits is comfortable - you and your kids will never need to sleep under a bridge or worry about the expenses of a nice lifestyle. 9 digits is wealthy. Where you can fly private, not think about prices. Spending money, investing money, tracking money is either your job or you have somebody running your family office dealing almost exclusively with overseeing investments and money flows.
You can definitely fly private and not think about the price tag with $50m (8 digits). The only price tag you’d be worried about there is buying the jet outright which is only useful if you’re flying literally all the time
It is better to own it and charter it as much as possible.
I love how in that example “fuck everyone” kinda means “fuck my favorite band” too.
How does that fuck the band?
Band in backyard is new one. Thanks for that.
I never have to work but worry abt bills
I find that every 100k of income is a meaningful lifestyle change.
I think having non-home equity net worth above about 2M is comfortable, 10M is independent, 50M is real wealth, then $1B+ is the oligarch level.
As always, it really varies based on how your wealth is tied up, where you live, and the lifestyle you want. Financial Independence is the first benchmark - but that number is different for everyone.
Ya $10mil is the beginnings of wealth
Just thinking of growing up in the 90s and saying things like “I want to be a millionaire when I grow up” haha where does that even get you today, doesn’t even buy you a proper house. As a kid I thought this was everything
I believe it was an NFL player that said “My 10 million dollar check makes me rich but the guy that signs that check is wealthy”
it's chris rock
I live in nyc, so while some people who consider me wealthy, I am definitely not.
My household income is 1.4mm BEFORE taxes. We only have 1.5mm in our 401k and Roth IRA, and we only have 400k in stocks.
More than most? Sure. Enough to quit working? Of course not.
And to me, that question is what wealth is. Can you not work and still live a nice life? If you can, you’re wealthy. So to me, 10mm in cash is the minimum to be wealthy.
Two million in savings in addition to your home…it’s not enough to retire in NYC, but I assume there’s some tropical place with golf courses where you could comfortably retire.
Yea but that’s not wealth is it?
Having to run away from nyc to live somewhere else.
To me, wealth means not working and moving where you want and being able to afford luxuries.
Doesn't matter if it's possible somewhere, to be wealthy you have to be able to not work, spend lavishly where you want to live.
In other words, it's not wealthy if you can't do what you want, where you want, when you want.
If you’re a 1%er with large savings you’re wealthy. You can’t make up your own definition of a commonly used word.
Of course we can have better definitions, that's the point of the question.
1% income threshold in the US is about $800K annually. Is that really wealthy if one has to work 80 hours a week, every week, to make that $800K, and doesn't have the time to do what they want, when they want?
I'd argue wealth is as much about having time and freedom as it is about having money.
Yes, I’d say that if you can comfortably have $10MM in CASH, that constitutes wealth.
Money is measured in $. Wealth is measured in time.
I view it as the ability to do what you want, when you want, where you want any day of the week without concern of what happens tomorrow.
“Doing ok” means you have enough to cover a couple months bills with no worries.
“Well off” means consistent mid six figure income.
“Rich” means all assets are paid off and 10mil+ liquid
“Wealthy” means you buy paintings for 15mil+ and hang them above your guest bedroom fireplace in your second summer home that you visit in one of your private jets.
But everyone has a different opinion.
Solid middle class , good health , great family and friends. Other than those things , I don’t care
🫡
This is really the only correct answer.
I say this partially tongue in cheek, but a friend of mine made the interesting comment that a good rule of thumb is "You know you are wealthy when you are worrying more about your taxes than your income". That does represent an interesting point when it comes to your relationship to money.
I am 18 and have recently started earning by becoming a virtual assistant for someone. I am still trying to find more work to do. I think I need 100 times the money I have earned so far to be wealthy.
I have a gal that watches my dog and house while I travel she is a virtual assistant. I am stoked when I see someone say- I am 18 and I am working hard towards something- VERY good on you man. Keep that up. Seriously. If you don't have a motor nothing else matters.
How much would that be?
Oooh so what kinds of stuff do you do? Are you willing to share your compensation?
I’ve been trying to, break out into the remote work, mainly virtual assistant thing for about a year now. Can you please tell me, how you did it?
Approx 5 mil American not counting paper wealth & currently unproductive assets
To be wealthy? Personally I’d say at the very minimum 50 mil , liquid . Anything less is ‘well off’
It doesn’t even make sense to keep that much liquid for a lot of people. My family owns an $80m real estate portfolio in trust that cash flows the lifestyles of multiple households that each have a vacation home, a boat, regular international travel, private schools, etc. There’s a college building named after the family. You’re going to say that isn’t wealth? 🙄
My bad if I didn’t elaborate properly , liquid meaning your wealth can be income generating , but whatever form it is in , it can be liquidated easily . Take it from me , I’m worth way more than I am , just to give this one example , but because I have an asset that is very very difficult to sell/monetise & whatever business was supposed to be conducted didn’t happen , I’m basically stuck lol, so whether the asset in question is worth 1 mil or 100 mil it it can’t even buy me a burger 😅
Maybe I’m overtly risk adverse with my take , but I also wouldn’t be comfortable in calling myself wealthy either if for example , I have a company valued at 1 billion but still loss making or not stable profiting yet . My definition of wealth (and the security that comes with it) would be assets like yours perhaps , as you have property, or a basket of stable indexes or shares , something safe & easy to sell
I am still confused. Liquid means it is sitting in an account or under your bed ready to use. Liquid isn't money that is being used to make other money in investments etc. Let me make it easier for you. There is a factual definition of Liquid asset and it is from the internet:
*Definition: An asset is said to be liquid if it is easy to sell or convert into cash without any loss in its value. By definition, bank notes and checking accounts are the most liquid assets. Description: A liquid asset allows any individual or a company to access cash at any time they want.*
If you are cashing out stock and paying taxes on it or capital gains on an instrument you cashed out too early etc that is not liquid because you lose money when you convert.
Definition of Wealthy is:
*Based on that figure, an annual income of $500,000 or more would make you rich. The Economic Policy Institute uses a different baseline to determine who constitutes the top 1% and the top 5%. For 2021, you're in the top 1% if you earn $819,324 or more each year. The top 5% of income earners make $335,891 per year.*
OPs more simple question and my attempt to answer:
To answer the OPs question that is a subjective term. Someone may consider themselves wealthy if they have enough to go out to eat once a week, month or year, buy their kids some stuff and take care of basic needs.
My personal take is high net worth individual or even better ultra high net worth individual.
Depending on the location the real estate is fairly liquid - NYC for example is a highly liquid market, you can list and sell within a week easy
Well perhaps my terminology isn’t as per textbook, is there a better term to refer to assets that are easy to liquify at their approximate value without suffering significant losses ?
If you are cashing out stock and paying taxes on it or capital gains on an instrument you cashed out too early etc that is not liquid because you lose money when you convert.
This is not correct, The earlier commentor misinterpreted the statement. A liquid asset is an asset that is readily convertible to cash at a relatively minimal transaction fee. The cost basis is irrelevant, the "Liquid" term only refers to ease of conversion at a minimal expense. So, an ETF is a liquid asset regardless of cost basis. A house is not a liquid asset regardless of cost basis.
"The common liquid assets are stock, bonds, certificates of deposit, or shares. Liquid assets are different from non-liquid assets, such as property, vehicles, or jewelry, which can take longer to sell and may lose value in the sale. Liquid assets are perceived as being the most basic type of asset available."
Notably cost basis is immaterial. Googling liquid assets will give you dozens of sources to verify my assertion.
People with 50 mil liquid don't keep 50 mil sitting around not working for you. If I need 50 mil I do an LOC backed by my investments. At the most i'll have 2 mil in a few checking accounts and savings. That is solely for "mad" money. I don't know anyone who earned their wealth who would have 50 mil liquid- it makes zero sense.
Most Americans don't have a pot to piss in. Many Americans make great financial decisions like knowingly paying more taxes than they need to so they can get a refund check. Reddit is alive with the question every year- Income tax check time what should I buy with XXXX I am getting back. Complete morons.
I paid 3.5 mil in taxes this year and I mailed the check on April 15th. Well, I had my CPA mail it. People giving the gov't a free loan and letting the gov't hold their money sans interest are idiots. If it is 50 bucks fine 1K or more stupid.
The reality is we do not teach kids in school how to handle their finances- we used to but I guess teaching phrases like wage slave and I am self diagnosed with anxiety disorder or autism takes priority. Hence many of the questions in this sub and r/personalfinance. It saddens me- I came from nothing had no one to really teach me things and that is 100% my fault. I had amazing parents but I was a POS that thought he knew everything. I knew very little. I wish I had spent more time listening to older folks and taking the advice that works to heart and ignoring the rest.
As stated in my reply, phrased it wrongly. Meant liquid assets - could be prime / desirable real estate , basket of stable index funds or stocks , etc etc . Assets that ideally generate income but are easy to liquidate and maintains a set value and not too volatile
The reality is we do not teach kids in school how to handle their finances
it's all a mystery until their first credit card
They don’t teach kids how to make money or hold onto it it’s stupid basically the 2 most important things to succeed
You forgot the /s I assume
I may have phrased it wrongly 😅
What an absurd take
Everyone has their opinion , you can disagree , but why is it absurd ?
In my view if you’re referred to as wealthy , you are at the level to at least be able to own a private jet comfortably , do actual luxurious things . People in the low millions don’t exactly have helicopter money or impromptu lavish vacation whenever I want money . They can only afford to buy a nice house and car and that’s it .
It's so simple. Wealth is simply having more income than your burn rate.
Wealth is free time and enough money to fill it. $10 million that you can liquidate in 24 hours is wealth.
24 hours is silly. That limits you to cash in the bank or stocks. Plenty of wealthy people have huge real estate portfolios. Tens of millions of dollars in commercial buildings that pump out cash in rents. They don’t keep $10 million in the bank. And you can’t sell a couple of $5 million dollar buildings in less than a few weeks. These people aren’t wealthy?
I am far from rich. But a decent very low 6 figure income combined with 0 debt and 2 lower level "not slum" rental units I feel as though I am comfortable. Also just hit 7 figure in ira/401k. I can do just about whatever I want but still budget conscious.
I have an upper (semi-passive) six figure income and a net worth in the low 8 figures. I own homes in the 3 major cities I visit, and bought a house 40 minutes outside of Portland so that we can have pets on the weekends.
I have basically reached complete financial security and independence. I have no concerns and enough that my children and I will spend the rest of our lives in comfort.
So, I do consider myself to be wealthy at this point.
Edit: Reading the comments here, apparently I wouldn't be considered wealthy.
Ignore that noise. A lot of these comments that wealthy is only $100 million and up are made by people who don’t have a pot to piss in.
Wife and I currently have a net worth of 1.3 million. We are comfortable right now. By 50 we are forecasted to have 10 million in retirement accounts (we are big savers). We live very comfortable right now (our only bill is a mortgage on 1 of our properties) , but we constantly double and triple check any big financial decisions that we make. I think wealth means different things to different people. But if you are not born into something the key is saving and diversifying your portfolio as young as possible, while living below your means. Also paying for things in cash as much as possible.
I don't think that Wealth has a numerical definition. I think Wealth is a status issue, when you have enough to be free of other peoples requirements and can do as you please, then you are wealthy. That may be a homeless person who can collect cans to pay for food, but roams anywhere and anytime they wish, or it could be a person with immense resources that commands many people and physical assets. Each of us hold that definition in our own minds and life depending on what our own goals are. Freedom is Wealth and vice versa.
The ability to live in whatever class status you want and not have to “work “ for money to support it!
When your passive income is more than your lifestyle expenses.
Health is wealth,
Certainly can't be wealthy without good health, but there's much more to being wealthy.
Tons of poor and working people have good health but are not wealthy.
I come from the 1% but the "ultra rich" - the people who fly private jets and who are on yachts - are the 1% of the 1%. Usually that figure is at 100 million USD net worth. That's what I consider to be rich, at least. My parents are probably at around 20 million USD or something like that, I'm not really sure. Maybe 30 million USD. They both fly private jet but only for business meetings. We can't afford private jets and yachts on our own.
"people felt real wealth was about twice their net worth" That's because it is an inherently relative concept. Almost everyone in the US today is wealthy by historical standards. Very few people are wealthy by the standards of their peer group because they tend to associate with people in roughly similar economic situations. So maybe "twice my net worth" is a reasonable definition of wealth. I'd agree that someone with twice my networth is wealthy.
Wealth is how much you have for x amount of days into the future.
Some people are rich but not wealthy. See, a pro basketball player is rich. The one writing his checks is wealthy.
Shaq
Or something along those lines
Real wealth is living off of your investments without having to work either for someone else or yourself.
I think you're right. My wife and I have $2MM and I think true wealth starts at $5MM and up. But that's being specific to HCOL areas.
I also feel less wealthy because half of it is locked up in real estate, and another 25% is locked away in retirement accounts. I think this illiquidity is a catch 22. On the one hand, it would be nice if I had it all in a liquid brokerage account. On the other hand, this kind of illiquidity protects us from making mistakes, whether impulse decisions or falling prey to addiction issues such as drugs or gambling.
My new system to measure wealth is if they have vacation home or condo in another state and dont rent it. Like a snowbird. I know rich who have beach condo but they rent it when not using it.
More
How much? A lot less than you think. Look around. Most people are broke.
Peace of Mind. Happiness of Heart. A place of grateful understanding.
Wealth is a belief system like money and only conditional to ones specific circumstances.
With inflation 200m is what 50m used to be so realistically now it’s 200m+ … not saying you need that much to be rich but comfortable wealth with private jets and yachts around there
I know that it isn't an official definition, but I consider a rich person to be someone who makes a lot of money. I consider someone wealthy if their money instead of them makes a "rich" income.
If you can take a nice vacation and not worry about the cost, you’re rich.
If you can do that and come back with even more money than when you left, you’re wealthy.
Wealth is sliding in and out undetected. Spy’s use it to go unnoticed. It’s a silent fart. Flying under the radar.
$5m+
I've met people so poor that all they had was their money
Health is wealth. Period.
After that, the ability to spend money on what you want without having to save for it.
It's just extremely relative. Schwab does an annual wealth report where Americans said in 2023 they needed $2.3m to be wealthy. As a percentage that puts you incredibly far ahead of most people, so you are wealthy by definition. As I approach that number, I feel pretty damn good and get just about everything I want from life, especially since average stock market returns would start out pacing my salary.
Then I go on a short vacation to the beach, renting a house, and I look at all the houses I can't afford, even the ones that don't even have a view of the water (but do have beach access at least) and think, damn, I'm really far off from wealthy.
Then I go home to my normal life and I'm crazy far ahead of my entire circle, live a great life doing what I want, not worrying about bills, kids college savings are pretty massive for their ages, and I come back to reality knowing I'm still pretty damn wealthy. Not beach front mansion wealthy, but I don't even like the beach that much to buy there anyway.
I saw this answer on another thread and I agree with it. Seems about right to me. Of course, it depends on your age and location.
Serious answer: $15M This will depend on your annual spend. But $15M was the number for me that it felt my growth so far outpaced my unrestricted annual spend that I felt like the number would only get bigger.
$5M - was my safe number.
$10M - was my “done” number.
$15M - was my “rich” number
I believe the ability to think and act wisely is true wealth. And it's rare, especially consistently. Our human nature works against us.
Concerning monetary accumulation, that measurement is decided by each individual. If you think you need more or have enough, you are correct.
If you’re here, you’re not.
Different for everyone. Personally...
Rich - not worried about bills at all, but still have to keep working.
Wealth - desired lifestyle without ever needing to work again.
Currently rich, could stop working for about 3 years before needing to sell any investments, but not yet at the 'wealth' benchmark. On track for a nice early retirement, though.
2.2 million I believe.
Well Off: 7 figures
Rich: 8 figures
Wealthy: 9+ figures
With that being said, those terms are very subjective. Some might consider $100K rich.
One man’s rich another man’s poor
hard to call someone with 10+MM poor
Well if you had 200 mil 10 wouldnt seem like so much in fact you would feel broke
i believe people with billions of dollars can tell the difference between being broke, being independently wealthy, and being evil secret bolcano lair wealthy.
Balcono lair lol 🤣
From Mark Cuban:
“‘Enough’ is what it takes to not worry about the bills,” he wrote. “‘A lot’ is enough that you never have to worry about working again. ‘F— you’ money means you can rent a jet to go wherever you want, whenever you want and no party is out of reach. ‘F— everyone’ money means you can have your favorite band in your backyard, not care how much it costs and lend them your jet to get there.”
source: https://www.gobankingrates.com/net-worth/business-people/best-mark-cuban-quotes-money/