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I hate to say it but they need to end the show. The authenticity isn’t there anymore and I honestly find them all toxic to varying degrees both on and off the show. It’s hard to buy someone accepting life and style advice from inauthentic, selfish, toxic “experts”. I adored the first 2-3 seasons. It’s essentially unwatchable to me now, the phoniness just seeps into every interaction. It’s really disappointing. :(
Yes I couldn’t even get through the most recent season. It feels like all the heart is gone.
It’s interesting too how they mention in the article that Bobby’s scenes with the heroes are cut from the episode. I feel like he used to have a day with the heroes too in earlier seasons. I always really enjoyed that because of the bunch, Bobby always seemed the most down-to-earth and genuine in his interactions.
I’ve been thinking the same thing for the last couple of years. Something has definitely changed in Queer Eye. The first couple of seasons had me feeling intense and visceral emotions like joy, hurt, and anger, and such. Some of the stories were genuinely heartbreaking, so I loved seeing how the episodes would resolve. However, it’s not the same anymore. The COVID season really brought all of the issues to the forefront. Like, y’all couldn’t have shown more essential workers and highlighted them? Just one doc or teacher? Really? My last favourite episode was the lady with the ranch/farm that really helped out people with special needs. She was such a sweet and genuine human being and I just fell in love with her. I feel that is Bobby’s crowning jewel of an episode/moment in which you could really see the labor and dedication he put into a hero. The episodes that centered on religion and Bobby’s qualms about the church? Broke my heart.
I loved the moments when the cast were real and authentic with the heroes and were brought to tears in their separate interviews. That stuff isn’t there anymore. QE feels more generic now.
I actually felt like at least the beginning of season 8 was more back to form - the ‘heroes’ were regular people again. I hated the Texas seasons where it felt like casting was casting for ‘types’ rather than people. The Louisiana school for the deaf episode was my favorite in a while. JVN had an amazing and seemingly genuine connection with the hero that was really moving, so sad to hear he’s a completely different person behind the scenes.
I remember that Texas animal rescue/farm episode and feeing like the entire point of it was to be hey look, we found someone to build a barn for, look at what we can do.
I agree 100% with you, the recent episodes really felt like an emphasis was put on finding the most “interesting” people, which is unfortunate because some of the most emotional episodes - I’m thinking all the way back to Tom in the pilot - centered on average people who probably would never get cast now.
Yeah I loved Tom! I really liked the NOLA guy with the 2 daughters who needed help reconnecting his wife as empty nesters. Just a pleasant regular guy getting a life boost.
I think their low was possibly the Austin bakery episode - it was very much ‘production seeking an AAPI pandemic story’ and that poor hero was more like a hostage the whole episode.
They lost me back in Japan. The lack of cultural awareness was shocking and embarrassing.
Same! That’s when I stopped watching
Can you elaborate because the whole jamming session about “having sex with your wife” had me dying laughing but was maybe too much for the Japanese market.
I’m also curious. I don’t know enough about Japanese culture to notice what they did wrong.
especially after i went back and watched the original cast season 1. They were all trying to make a positive impact in people who needed that certain something that they could help with.
also the show is too short. I want to see what went into each members contribution to the persons transformation. give us more wholesome!!!
Ehh, no show is ever going to be 5 friends with different skills working together. All tv is fake, but they should be good at faking friendships and not be actively hostile towards each other. It’s bound to happen with a show with 5 leads all trying for the spotlight.
It’s all inauthentic and a money grab. It’s done. And in solidarity with Bobby, I won’t watch
The last time I was really engrossed in the show was when they were in Austin. I’ll never forget Antoni’s connection and reactions to the situation and animals at Safe in Austin. I do believe that was genuine.
That said, the last couple seasons for me have been boring and stale. I didn’t even finish this most recent one .
I live in Philly and when they were doing their season here, they were in a building across the street from me. I ran into and saw them all the time, like multiple times a week. That summer changed my view of all of them. Bobby was the only one who seemed human still. Karamo was especially annoying to run into, he spent what seemed like all daylight hours filming commercials and ig content and was genuinely annoyed when other people existed in a busy neighbourhood in a big city. JVN tried to adopt kittens from a rescue and was angry that they weren't allowed to walk out with new cats in less than 10 minutes, and their entourage was so plastic seeming. Like a "you'll regret not letting me adopt from you" type of vibe. I ended up on an elevator with three of them with my dog and Bobby knelt down in delight to say hi and was THRILLED when I told him the command for kisses. He was the only one who seemed to still be grounded in reality and I haven't been able to watch the show since because I can't unsee how they all behaved while here
A friend of mine was a Hero on the show, and hasn't said much about the behind the scenes process - but he always seems to have the fondest reaction to mentions of Bobby. And in his episode, you could really tell that the two of them had an incredible moment together with each other during production that was good for them both.
I love that Bobby is as great as I hoped :’)
So many of the heroes said their most meaningful interaction was with him!
He was great. There was a dog walker in the neighbourhood with short purple hair and he stopped her to tell her that she's his favourite soccer player and it made her whole month
What did antoni do during that time, do you remember?
He was working out a lot, and I kept seeing him get back to the building late at night wearing a hotel looking bathrobe. I heard he was going to a bunch of different restaurants, but I only ever saw him when he was going back home Edit: and at the gym with a personal trainer friend who I think traveled here from nyc
On the one hand, it sucks to realize that people you looked up to suck. On the other hand, c'mon people, this is reality television. It's been fake as fuck since day one. You can't believe everything that's on tv, it's all heavily edited to present a certain pov, you are being manipulated into buying into their personas.
I didn't expect them to be exactly the same off and on screen, thats not realistic. The difference was so stark though, except for Bobby
Tell me Antoni was not in the elevator because if he resisted a dogs affection I’m going to lose it.
Omg no, it wasn't him
Replying to EineKline...how were Antoni and Tan?
I responded about Antoni in another comment. Tan is the one I actually saw the most, he ended up going to the same gym I went to and we seemed to have a similar or overlapping workout schedule. I was also in and out of the building they were living in for my work, and was frequently on the street their work loft was on for my work. I saw him so much that I was worried he was going to think I was following him, and I'm not one to approach celebs anyway but I really made sure to not be bothered when I'd see him. He was aloof, understandably. The gym manager wanted a selfie with him and wanted Tan to hold a shirt with the name of the gym on it and he refused. I think it was understandable for endorsement reasons, and he also intentionally ruined the selfie they did end up taking, which I loved. I remember seeing some interview where he said he always takes the actual selfie when fans ask because he knows his angles, and this pic was AWFUL. It was so bad. I laughed because that's what happens when you harass someone, fully support his having done that. The gym manager was annoying af anyway. Outside of that, he a vibe you'd expect from royalty having to mingle with peasants during the plague
“He has a vibe you’d expect from royalty having to mingle with peasants during the plague.” Yikes lol 💀
Lmaooooo mingle with peasants during the plague 😹 he used to be my fav in the early seasons , but he does seem like that now
So Tan and Antoni also both seem unproblematic?
It is really hard to explain the vibe but Tan seemed to ooze mean girl energy. And some of it seemed like it was a way to keep people away from him, but it was like he was amplifying what already exists. Like he is catty and judgemental but can turn on the charm to play nice when needed. And watching the show, there's glimmers of that that come through
Gotta love a man that says hello to dogs
I don’t know why it’s so disappointing to hear JVN is such a problem.
Yeah this makes me sad, I loved JVN especially in the early seasons. Hopefully JVN can seek therapy for their rage etc issues if it’s true
It doesn’t excuse it but the rage issues tracks with some of the mental health stuff JVN described in their book. It doesn’t fit with the popular narrative of someone being the toxic villain. There is a lot of nuance, someone can have a loving heart and be prone to anger and poor in ability to inhibit outbursts.
If it’s true, it’s not okay and should have never happened—let alone repeatedly.
Often rage comes parcel and package with trauma, even if it’s not what we think someone who has been hurt looks like—especially since it hurts others.
Just my thoughts. I’m disappointed if it’s true but it also doesn’t make JVN a fraud, the media likes stories of overcoming and just wants the good parts—leaving out the full picture of someone who has been hurt deeply and has some ongoing dysregulated behaviors.
I agree. Humans are complex and there are nuances to how humans behave but they willingly take part in a show where the Fab 5 are shown as having some sort of expertise of well-being and self care. They are popular because of how they are portrayed on the show. People are attracted to their positivity and how they seem to care about doing good in the world.
But there is a big difference between having bad days/moods and being emotionally abusive. I am sure there is a lot of trauma in JVN’s but it is not ok to give people trauma because of your rage. You shouldn’t be on a TV where you are selling a brand of puppies and rainbows when you are hurting people off cameras.
Of course there are two sides to every story but Rolling Stones did have a lot of sources.
Yeah, ultimately it’s explains it but it doesn’t excuse it.
In a way I wasn’t surprised by it, and that’s not to say I thought JVN was rotten all along but that someone with a history of dysregulated, externalizing behavior having rage is not shocking.
This is why we have to be intentional and set standards for ourselves on how we will treat others and any transgression should have been held accountable. No one is being helped by staff and colleagues being expected to just take it. There are difficult people or ppl you just don’t gel with at any job, but someone with power and sway screaming at anyone is not okay.
100% We shouldn’t reward people who are emotionally abusive to their colleagues. Someone else could have taken their role in the Fab 5 if they wasn’t ready to handle that pressure without causing trauma on set. Plus, they spent years preaching positivity and caring for yourself and others and he didn’t have time or money to work on himself??!! I can’t believe it. Plus after the first intervention that should have stoped that behavior. Netflix should have made them get anger management training
The behavior was also rewarded by JVN ending up with more screen time since other cast members were unwilling to film with them due to their behavior at times. In that scenario JVN should have been the one to give up screen time since their behavior was the issue.
Production was reinforcing their difficult and unkind behavior and treating other cast members like the problem for not shutting up and taking it essentially. JVN is responsible for their behavior but production is also responsible for how they handled it.
Very good point! Imagine having to watch your toxic coworker get all the flowers and screen time when pretending to be all nice when behind scenes they make it a nightmare. Did they pull this behavior around the heroes? How awkward for them
Yes! And to be fair, the sources in the article did say that JVN is capable of incredible warmth and connection with the heroes. But of course that doesn't make it less scary or traumatic for the people on the other side of their rage. I hope they get help for the rage; more than their career, it can really wreak havoc in personal relationships
You’re so right. This is very eloquently put
Same. When I read the article and saw what they said about JVN, I was like.... "Yup, makes sense especially with what he went thru according to his book." But as everyone said, I really hope he can find some solution to the rage issues.
Therapy (generally) isn't effective for ppl with NPD. There more often than not needs to be significant leverage and the indiv needs to be very depressed ("a depressed narcissist is a well-behaved" one) in order for them even to go to therapy. Even still, that doesn't guarantee the therapy won't have them take their tools they gain and use the therapy to abuse others. This is if JVN is a NPD person which based on this article..... would fit, given the narcissistic rage and non-receptiveness to meetings with execs, etc. Doesn't help that the shows rewards him for his behavior too.
I know we’re all here to speculate and gossip, don’t get me wrong. But I think putting a diagnosis like a personality disorder out there just isn’t right. They’re very stigmatized conditions, and I think we all want to live in a better world for people with mental health conditions, without stigma.
Yep, which is why I put if in there. My point wasn't to further stigmatize MH conditions.... more to point out that therapy isn't always effective for everyone, and in order for it to be effective for people who are high profile (which does tend to attract/reinforce the traits of narcissism, let's be real here) it would take a lot that is probably unlikely to occur. There are way more factors in whether/not celebs (or people) can benefit from therapy, to include access and fit, and peoples motivations to go to ongoing therapy. Especially given what was written in the article. I point this out bc people who are very image concerned might play the I went to therapy card and I'm a better human now as a...smoke and mirrors thing/to save and protect their image, rather than to get genuinely better in a mental health sense. The whole mess of a situation is a bit of a feedback loop....
Omg NPD makes perfect sense. No one would believe my parents were narcissists unless they wanted you to see it. And ofc I got all the abuse. It's JVN still married?
I’ll always remember in the 2018 or 2019 article about him in rolling stone where he announced his HIV diagnosis, the interviewer made a point to say when people came up to him he’d kind of shoo them away and say “namaste”. They focused on how he said it. It was dismissive and “you’re bothering me” which at the time I chalked up to new fame and people having no boundaries, but now I’m thinking they were hinting at the type of person he was when the cameras weren’t rolling.
I agree. I read that interview and it actually turned me off from him. I felt weird thinking that but I was just unsure.
It was subtle, but she was clearly trying to imply that his saying “namaste” was the opposite of the word and more code for “gtfo”
I commented elsewhere that I kept running into them when they filmed Philly. JVN did this with gay catchphrases the whole time they were here. Someone would try to say hi and they would "yass queen" the person away and did it to several people I know. It was definitely a way to say "fuck off" without saying it. And like, yeah, celebs are entitled to their privacy. But it felt so unsettling to see
Because it’s so directly opposed to their onscreen persona.
Exactly, it’s like the wife guy phenomenon, where a bunch of “wife guys” cheated on the spouses they so, so loudly professed to love.
If you make your whole public persona about one thing, and your personal life contradicts that, it’s going to make fans of your public persona feel especially betrayed when they realize how misled they were.
Yuup. So many abusive people are charming to outsiders and awful to those they are close to.
JVN being a bit of a diva wouldn’t be at all shocking, they after all, a media personality and that can go with the territory in small amounts, but raging out on crew is a whole different ball game.
The Ellen effect! Sometimes these celebrities who proclaim to be the kindest, most friendly etc are the worst
Really disappointed to hear about JVN.
For real! if it’s all true JVN is a major hypocrite.
Given their bombastic nature (we usually see the positive vibes) I could 100% envision really strong negative outbursts.
This is unsurprising. In my experience dealing with a lot of celebs and public figures both professionally and personally, it's always the ones who make "kindness! positivity! good energy!" their public brand who are absolute assholes behind the scenes (and vice versa - if someone presents publicly as acerbic, aloof, or a bit of an edgelord, they're almost always really kind to deal with).
I know they're very far cries from each other, but I've been watching Love is Blind with a friend and, in the new season, there is an incredibly boring, but unproblematic couple.
If "good people makes for bad television" can be real, then the opposite may hold true too.
Can confirm. I worked PR at an agency repping "healthy active lifestyle" influencer/brands. It was shocking to me how inauthentic they all really were. In my entire time there, only two people out of the dozens I worked with were actually down to earth, decent people that treated us with respect.
Working in PR will take the bloom off the rose FAST. Started there, then went to nonfiction book publishing where I worked on primarily celebrity/public figure memoirs... the stories I could tell ya. 😳 It is literally always the ones who want to be seen as angelic sweethearts who will scream at you on the phone for their own mistakes.
I wonder why that's the case. Are they compensating for something? I can see how people who are acerbic are actually nice, because what you see is what you get, and they're not actually trying to treat people differently. But the "love, positivity, kindness" people being real assholes is a real puzzle to me.
I’m not really sure either. My pet theory is that I think there’s an element of grandiosity at play that you also see in certain types of people who go into the “helping”/“healing” professions but treat the vulnerable people they work with very poorly. Everyone has a horror story about a sadistic nurse or teacher, religious leaders are often massive hypocrites, politicians are often massive assholes, Mother Teresa was famously an absolute rancid swamp-person, etc. It’s that same instinct — wanting to be seen as GOOD! THE BEST!! — but coupled with the additional desire to be extremely famous on top of it. Something a lot of the more acerbic/aloof types I’ve interacted with all seemed to have in common was that there was some element of “I didn’t want/expect to get this famous” involved, whether they did a project that just blew up unexpectedly or very much took something bigger for the money that would allow them to mostly focus on their small passion projects. Whereas I do think that anyone who singlemindedly pursues fame and money and celebrity for its own sake has some kind of hole inside that they’re trying to fill, and when that gets paired with the desire to be seen as a shining beam of human generosity, you get… Ellen. And Ted Lasso. There’s really only been one exception I’ve experienced where the kind persona matches the real person, and that is Jessica Chastain. But she also experienced real hardship growing up and didn’t break out until she was well into her thirties, which really isn’t the norm.
Wait. This is all very interesting. But Ted Lasso is a confusing reference since he is a character. Do you mean Jason Sudeikis?
Just curious, and thanks for clarifying
As I stated downthread, the guy who plays Ted Lasso is a notorious self-googler, so I'm using the name of the character that helped him solidify that reputation. Hope that clarifies.
Got it, thanks. Yes, I don't even know much, but just the custody papers story is enough to get a good (bad) picture of who he is. Oof.
Oh please do tell!
I feel the same. I’m not shocked to hear that JVN shows different colors behind the scenes. Disappointed, but not surprised.
I work with a lot of elected officials and can confirm that public persona sometimes (but not always) is very different from what they're like in private. And, even among those whose heart is in the right place, being in the public eye like that kind of just leads to unhinged behavior.
"Never meet your heroes," and all that.
cough Ellen cough
Im scared for Harry Styles now 😳
Actually pretty nice (according to a friend who interviewed him). Very guarded but accommodating. I'm not a fan of his music but haven't heard many bad things. Now, Olivia Wilde's ex-husband on the other hand... "monster" doesn't begin to cover it. Styles was an upgrade from that.
That’s good to hear. I was a big 1D fan back in the day and while he was never my favourite, it does make me sad whenever I hear anything negative about any of the guys
Not to spam your comments, but Ted Lasso being that awful totally falls in line with what you were saying about the "preaching positivity" celebs.
Are you talking about Sudeikis or her actual ex husband?
The first one. (He’s an obsessive self-googler so I avoided the name for a reason.) Common-law spouse, whatever.
I mean, if it’s true he was courting Olivia Wilde while she was still married he’s definitely not innocent
Not surprised to hear that JVN is hard to work with. The bubbly persona is so intense that it seems like compensating for having a dark side.
Funny enough, JVN has been liking all Lizzo’s posts with claims she did nothing wrong
This was part of the reason I unfollowed JVN.
Anyone with that much charisma is bound to have narcissistic traits
That’s such a good point. I’d never thought about it like that before.
I have always wondered whether JVN to be an exhausting person IRL. Main Character Energy like that is so exhausting to me.
Agreed. I think he's the one I'd least like to have dinner with
Omg I play that game too. Bobby was always the one I'd most like to have dinner with. And JVN the least. JVN just seemed like he used 'being entertaining' as a way to get out of certain aspects of human connection.
I think for me it'd be Bobby or Tan. I worry that going to dinner with Antoni would be like dining with a golden retriever, and Karamo feels smarmy to me these days.
They are like a needy 4 year old "Look at me! Look at me!"
I love Antoni and Tan as personalities and presenters, but Bobby has always come across as the most real to me - like we were seeing his authentic self and viewpoints. It always seemed like he had healthy boundaries and knew himself, and wouldn't just do whatever it took to make a buck/good tv.
Also, this makes his statements after the fact seem even more classy.
I hope Bobby gets his own show, because I'd watch the heck out of it.
Bobby always came across as the most grounded in reality. He also always seemed chill and non-judgmental of the heroes - just approaching them as equals.
Me too! Love Bobby:)
The photo is taking me all the way out 😂
Maybe I'm oblivious, but I've never picked up on any of this while watching the show. They all really seem to get along, so it's a bummer to hear this. Also surprised about JVN.
QE has always seemed very genuine to me but maybe the sad truth is that basically nothing we see in media is real.
The magic of television
I've mentioned before that the whole thing really reminds me of what happen with Lizzo too and has me questioning a lot of 'wholesome' content. They can definitely fake stuff to benefit from the algorithms.
I always side eyed Lizzo for saying Chris Brown was her favorite person (or one of her favorite people).
Ugh the same feeling I had when I read Cillian Murphy is a somewhat notorious philanderer
Wait what?! 😢
I’m getting downvoted as if I wasn’t also super sad to learn it but the rumors are definitely out there and I can’t say whether they’re true, but lately with men where there’s smoke…https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/s/kgXIZvMyzP
For all my non-native speakers like me out there who just learned a new word.
The article ends saying even with the tension between the cast, everyone cast and crew, cares about the show and the heroes and work really hard to give the heroes a genuine experience. It’s at the very end.
lol at Rolling Stone for being shady at the end of article explaining how all of the Fab 5 (except for Bobby) have failed in their personal business venture. Of course they signed on for another season. They probably all got used to living the good life and they got bills to pay
At least it explains why I feel like my JVN hair products have gone from amazing to garbage seemingly overnight. I thought the problem was with me somehow.
I thought it was just me, too! My hair loved my first set, but the replacements left it so stripped and dry.
You can buy JVN products on super sale at TJ Maxx
That paragraph was brutal. I’m definitely team Bobby here, but I don’t think it was fair or particularly relevant to lay it all out like that - especially considering a lot of celebrities’ products have a limited lifespan baked in. Also, a lot of restaurants closed during 2021 - I’m sure we can all remember why.
I think it’s fair to include that because in the context of the show they’re more and more positioned as experts with some degree of success and credibility that can be offered to the hero’s. When I’m increasingly not sure that’s the case as it doesn’t seem like any of them (maybe save Bobby) have much of a sustainable/successful brand/expertise. It reads more like they took a shot and struck while the iron was hot with the attention they were getting from the show but it’s not really translating to actual success. I can’t fault anyone for taking a career chance. But it just seems like that’s what Queer Eye is to them, a career vehicle, and that’s really impacted the authentic good vibes from the earlier episodes for me.
I wonder about the agents roles in these kinds of decisions. It’s a common trend for famous celebrities to write memoirs now, there are several established “pathways” that I think other entities like agents or manufacturers or magazines or whoever push for because it’s the quick money grab for those folks. Like making a million sequels to something that sells well once. It’s weird to me how the industry still thinks that’s a recipe for success when so often, it fails. All that to say, I think it’s bound to be far more than just the individual deciding “I want to start a production company.” You know they need a whole team to make that happen, and those folks think they can make $$$ being connected to an influencer/celebrity. At least that’s how I’ve always thought about it??
I really hope Bobby gets his own show, this is upsetting. The running gag was that he worked the hardest, and seeing him go is sad.
This makes me respect Bobby so much more now - I personally would not have been able to stay so diplomatic in that Vanity Fair exit interview if that's what really went down.
Agree with this. Bobby was always my favorite, personally. And the only one I’d continue to watch.
Wow. that was disappointing to read.
They never had a close relationship to begin with because if they did, they wouldn't renew if it wasn't the 5 of them. A good example of this is the cast of Friends. Instead of them each demanding a certain salary, they knew their worth as a group. Either all of us or none. That's how they eventually got paid like 1 million per episode. Maybe Bobby thought they each had their back and when they said goodbye, that was it for him. A good bye. Only for them to turn around and renew and just replace him since he said no. Shady AF and I would be hurt too.
Wow, the fact tan and antoni were trying to replace Bobby is awful. And all this stuff about JVN. Just toxic
Because their individual businesses aren’t doing so hot! Karma i guess… It sounds like bobbys in a much better place, literally too so i dont worry for him, just sad execs let this bullshit happen again and again. Abusers are gonna abuse. Why would they stop? Because thats what jvn’s behavior is reported as in the article. Great read, but shocking, depending on how much experience you have w ppl like jvn, tan, and ant in your life. wish bobby and the crew, all those affected, so much success and joy ♥️
From the very beginning, I always felt like Tan gave off mean-girl vibes.
He seems so fake and very condescending.
Yeah. THAT is what makes me not want to watch it. Ok. Fine. They’re not friends. But they’re all seeming distasteful.
Not so surprising to me, both Tan and Antoni are well accepted in the A-celebrity clicks. Antonis friendship with Jeremiah is well known and as far as Tan goes he has way more in common with Jeremiah and Nate’s lifestyle and status than he does with Bobby or JVN.
I don’t know much about Antoni but when he was with Taylor Swift at the football game last fall it kind of killed my illusion of him. And I like Taylor Swift very much but her level of A-list fame is just so stratospheric it impacts anyone in her circle who are all, by proxy to her, super almost untouchable a-list. And that game in NY was a clear see and be seen moment for that uber famous elite crowd. It just made it hard for me to buy much of the connection with normal people hero’s. I’m sure he’s nice. I’m sure Taylor Swift would be nice if she did a cameo on Queer Eye. But nice and real connection are two different things and it just reinforced an impression I have that this is a vehicle for him to his own fame and status. And I’m not even sure there’s anything wrong with that, everyone should look out for their own career and advancement, but I guess it was just another thing lessening the authenticity and connection vibe for me. And this is a show that sold itself on connection and authenticity.
Tan I haven’t liked since his post during world breastfeeding week which I found incredibly tone deaf and flippant to breastfeeding people. And I’ve found his vibe more and more talking down to people because he seems to fancy himself a fashion a-lister. And I’m actually not sure he is. His own style isn’t particularly stylish to me, his other shows have all struggled, his new house is a completely uncohesive design mess. And yes some of those things might be a subjective matter of my taste, but I just can’t shake the vibe that he’s changed to more I am a very important design a-lister and you’re lucky I’m here addressing your hot mess style and it just feels like a bit of a smoke and mirrors trick. The news that he seems to have been actively engaged in replacing Bobby in such an underhanded way is very unprofessional and disappointing.
I watched the Architectural Digest series about Tan’s house, and my bf and I kept remarking to each other how much it seemed like the husband/wife team hated Tan. I got the sense that he was a difficult client behind the scenes.
Haven’t been able to watch Tan since seeing some of his takes on the next in fashion show. Fashion is so subjective, related to taste and culture and perception. He bandied things like there is a right and wrong way, things that are just “ugly”. It made much of the content of his role on QE ring hollow for me since then.
this make sense why he initially unfollowed both tan and Antoni, but for whatever reason reflowed Antoni
Idk I don’t find that part so awful. Bobby was clear he didn’t want to return to the show. It doesn’t seem fair that if 4 of them decided they did want to keep doing the show, they couldn’t just because Bobby left. It makes sense to me that they would suggest someone to replace Bobby. It’s not like Bobby was hoping to stay.
That isn’t the timeline/context. It’s much more problematic than that. After the horrendous last season filming the assumption was no one would come back given everyone’s miserable time. That’s why Bobby said he didn’t have FOMO because the vibe was no one was coming back. And then the other 4 decided they were which blindsided him given the earlier attitude that no one was into the show anymore. He was hurt by feeling misled.
And this new element that they were actively courting Jeremiah before Bobby had even decided is deeply toxic and unprofessional. It seems shady and manipulative and backstabbing. Not really as simple as 1 made one decision and the other 4 made a different one. That leaves out all the context that they were clearly not transparent about the real discussions happening.
Also noteworthy how tans recent rebuttal has been “I didn’t get him fired”, which, Bobby makes it sound like he decided not to come back, but tan keeps using fired.
Oh it definitely sounded like they were trying to REPLACE him, not have someone fill his former role.
The lighter the picture, the darker the negative. None of this is really that surprising.
The show is great overall and it certainly has a net positive benefit…but it’s just interesting that those of us who could see behind the phony facade so long ago were downvoted into oblivion anytime we’d dare to question the “feel good” narrative everyone was so desperate to believe in.
Narcissists tell you who they are, others show you. I've wondered if JVN had an Ellen thing going on. I appreciate when people are willing to speak out about hypocritical personalities. Still a shame, though. Great article from rolling stone.
🙏🏻♥️
Can’t say I’m surprised about JVN. People who are very loud and open with their “nice” emotions usually act the same with their “bad” ones. But it’s definitely disappointing nonetheless.
What about JVN and Antoni? Aren't they super close? Even have their our brand Yammers?
I was wondering about this too! They’ve always seemed the closest to me. I wonder if something happened between them recently.
I really love that the author kept changing JVN’s pronouns like they used he, she, and they I think that’s awesome
I found it pretty confusing to be very honest. I’m of course completely fine with people choosing their pronouns
I’m glad to read this comment. I have coworkers that use she/they or he/they and I sometimes have to write about their work for grants. I get nervous that I’ll use the wrong pronoun and upset them.
It’s usually totally cool to ask them. Right after starting a new job, I accidentally used she for a coworker who uses she/they, and I checked in with them afterwards privately to apologise - she was totally cool with it and explained that they use both, so either are fine with them and they don’t have a preference.
As far as I know, though, some people do have a preference between she/they or they/he/she etc. so as long as you ask respectfully (which I’m sure you would, considering that you’re worrying about getting it wrong), then I can’t see anyone having a problem clarifying which pronouns they use.
I'm fine using the preferred pronoun, but I don't really get the thing about using several. I mean, I don't mind people choosing that, but I feel like it's too much to expect someone to include all of their pronouns when they are referred to. However I have no idea if anyone actually expects that. Feel free to explain if or why it's important :)
First thing, it's not their "preferred pronouns", it's just their pronouns. Preference implies optional, and so it's not really used much any more.
As for having multiple, most people don't expect you to use all of them at all times. You don't have to alternate between he and they every time you talk about them. That said, it all depends on the individual, and its okay to ask. For some it's "I use he, she, or they depending on my mood at the time and don't really care what you use", for others it's "I primarily use they for myself, but won't be upset if you use he to refer to me sometimes".
Often times the one mentioned first is the one I would primarily use. So if someone uses they/he, I'd use they most of the time, but he in certain situations, such as with someone that didn't know he also used they or if he was presenting as particularly masculine that day.
Oh, thanks so much for the explanation. Now it makes more sense, especially with the last point. Thanks for the info!
Aww, man, another person that has the sweetness and light persona and then you find out that while it's partially true, they aren't what they seem. I'll still miss Bobby though, but good for him for deciding to move on on his own terms.
Not surprised by JVN being difficult because I read their book. I think they were pretty honest about who they are: a big personality in every way. Not just in their good moments, but also in the bad ones. Being in an environment like Queer Eye, the break out star who’s trying to start their own business simultaneously, has to put a lot of pressure on a person. Not saying that it’s okay to treat people badly, it just sounds to me like the pressure is getting to them.
I didn't think it was this bad, but they all come across as really disingenuous in the show, save for Bobby, maybe.
It's disgusting that Jonathan treats people that way, especially the people who are responsible for keeping the source of their success running. I wasn't going to watch it without Bobby, but this sours the older episodes for me as well. Happy to have gotten something out of it when I did, but it's time to end this charade.
I am honestly very surprised that Jeremiah Brent signed on for the show. He seems very passionate about his family and the work he and Nate do on their shows so for him to do something that would take him away from that shocked me. I’m a huge fan of his and Nate’s and I felt like his more sensitive nature doesn’t align with the vibe of the Fab 5. Not sure if anyone else feels this way. Of course I’m sad to see Bobby leave, I really like him. But still very surprised at his replacement.
I agree and I don’t mean this in any disparaging way or that heroes are undeserving, but I just associate him and his brand with high luxury, wealthy clients, and east coast. I think he’s talented and comes across very kind. But I think Bobby’s brand is more approachable/made for this format.
YES! That is exactly what I think as well. He used to work for Rachel Zoe who isn’t known for being like…frugal. And the budgets on the shows he and Nate do seem to be pretty high.
Nail on the head. Jeremiah is talented and empathetic but is just on such another level of fuck you rich I don’t see him melding well with the rest of the cast.
Tan and Antoni are complete snobs. That is why they want him.
I commented this exact thing on the post about him joining the show, I totally agree.
I was surprised too, I knew he was close to Antoni but his style and nature really isn’t loud gay ya know. He’s reserved and expensive. He’s a dad who talks about his kids non stop. However I could see him wanting something a bit different to shake things up. If you watch Nate and Jeremiah on hgtv then you know darn well they can get into a good bicker just like any other spouses. I know if I worked with my husband everyday I’d go nuts. I love him but I would def need to go do my own thing for a while too. I also think his lifestyle aligns a ton with Tans. Maybe seeing Tan being able to raise his children and have the show gave him some confidence in being able to do that too.
Surpriseeee surprise, a overly positive and jolly person turns out to be the biggest bitch in the room lol I can't trust anyone that comes off that nice, every single time they prove to be as fake as they come.
Honestly, the behavior from JVN isn’t surprising, and neither is his ability to seemingly never admit fault or change. He has gotten into some social media beefs—particularly with Black women—that really put me off him.
Also I love how so many people in this sub were so sure Karamo was the problematic one. And it was y’all’s bestie all along!
Edited to correct typos.
You’re right Karamo being a problem was the absolute least mentioned on this article.
Yep. You already know why most people in this sub thinks Karamo is the problem.
With how emotional JVN gets I’m not surprised he snaps back a lot
Wow this is not good for JVN and really damming to read.
I thought Berks reaction was interesting. The article touts how they're not friends just coworkers and Berk was miffed when everyone decides to renew. I guess he thought bc he didn't no one would. But thays business...I mean they weren't friends just coworkers.
I thought it was more surprise than anything else. TV cast members generally stick together to push for things like raises and contracts. It seems like he thought they all felt that they were done and moving on and he was surprised that they all re-signed. It seems like he really got the short end of the stick--he used to have his time with the heroes and then they cut all that out in later seasons, and then Tan pushes to get his buddy on the show instead of Bobby. That's pretty cold blooded. Bobby's talks with the heroes--about religion, and homelessness, and starting a business--were the main reason I liked him so much.
Yeah, but even people who are coworkers but aren’t best friends usually have some respect for one another — it’s pretty disrespectful for them to all sign again without even giving him a heads up. It’s clear they didn’t want him to be a part of it.
Yeah - this wasn’t a Prisoner’s Dilemma game where you don’t know who re-signed until you submit your decision.
The other four definitely all talked and decided not to let Bobby know they were re-signing together. If they had told him he would have.
Damn. I am so deeply disappointed.
I have both of JVN’s books and really adored him. Deeply humbling to read this.
Wow… I have no words lol
I miss the original cast. all hail Carson Kressley!!
Me too! I feel like they cast the original fab 5 based more on their professional-level skills and credentials, instead of mostly "chemistry." That made it easier for them to just be themselves on camera.
Ooof from the comments on jvn here I am dreading reading this article as he is a favourite of mine.
But honestly not surprised. I personally don't trust anyone who's constantly smiley and happy 24/7. As a human being that is not normal.
welp
The only reason that I watched QE was because of Bobby. He is so genuine and an extremely hard worker. Tan is and was so off putting. No surprise that he and Antoni are backstabbers and Tan’s style is so dated. Like an escapee from a Wham video.
Antoni and Bobby have been my favorites, but Bobby really stood out to me as to how he was bringing his real soul into some of the situations with the hero who had a lot of kids, was working crazy jobs, and was super religious. Bobby shared a lot about himself and was so vulnerable...it made him one of my favorites early on. And Antoni going nuts over seeing a corgi and like "forget we're filming, I'm sitting in the hall with the dog" was totally relatable and human.
I'm sure they all were so hyped about starting the show and that gave them an initial bond, but those bonds can wear thin after a while. I just hate it.
tan and antoni are literally mean girl spiritual lovers so i’m not even shocked that they backstabbed bobby like that
am i the only one not surprised here? i don't know them aside from the show and starting last season i felt like there was something about him that seemed... problematic. like i get if you are obsessed with JVN, watch/read all of his content, you might be blindsided here. yea go figure similar to lizzo it's almost like the people who feel the need to constantly project how wholesome they are actually aren't that wholesome and typically super judgy.
safe to say i feel validated.
Lol this reads like those people agitating around here a few weeks ago gone and got organised
I bet a reporter or reporter-adjacent person was lurking on this sub, saw a story, and reached out to them.
Paywall, can someone summarize
JVN is an AH and they mean girled Bobby out instead of ending the show because bills.
I’ve always thought this sub had a weird fixation on Karamo (not excusing that he’s messed up in pretty big ways, I just found it enlightening that there was so much focus on him and particular given a lot of the cast has done some shady things). It’s just kinda funny as someone who only checks this sub once a month that Bobbie and Karamo come out relatively clean here
I wonder how accurate this article is. The author said that only Antoni and Tan are actually friends. But that's not true considering Bobby and Karamo's extremely close relationship.
I think that was a source’s opinion rather than the author.
I think Bobby and Karamo come across as very good work friends who maybe bonded over certain dislikes but don’t go out of their way to hang out when off season.
It’s like that friend you get lunch with every day at work - then you leave the company, meet up and realise you have nothing to talk about any more.
Could be they quoted a staffer who worked more closely with JVN, Antoni and/or Tan and wasn’t as familiar with Bobby and Karamo? The meat of it seemed to come from people subjected to JVN’s treatment directly and they only really mentioned Karamo toward the end by name other than the intro parts and how each of their other ventures are doing. Prob speaking broadly about how they weren’t all close.
Idk specifics of how tight Bobby and Karamo are but I remember in his piece he spoke well about Karamo and Karamo left a really nice comment about him on his goodbye post. Whereas for Tan (we know there was friction there and a breakdown that Bobby even admitted to and now more with this article) it was generic and I don’t think he said anything to Bobby and they may have unfollowed each other too
Pretty bad because they've all (JVN in particular) been gushy about how one of the others (never Bobby) is "their best friend". Like JVN and Tan talking about how they phone each other from the shower in interviews.
"The schedule itself was intensive, filming from June to September". Cry me a river.
I get what you’re saying but as a remote worker who’s had to do week or so long onsite trips, 4 months of nothing but long work days, away from home most of the time? With a bunch of coworkers?? Nah that sounds tough
To be fair they’re long days on location away from home
Ya but like 15+ hour days 6-7 days a week for all those months. It isn’t a cushy 9-5 job.
Quite depressing to read, but I prefer knowing the truth. I'll take this as a lesson on parasocial relationships. In hindsight, I did read JVN's books where they were candid about some of their issues and I did notice sketchy moments in the show and other media.
Does anyone remember the time when JVN was interviewing Justin Theroux and the topic of that lady Louise Linton (I think?) came up and JVN essentially sent people to her IG to send her hate. Like, she's not a nice person, but why do that if you ostensibly stand for niceness and kindness?
Also, didn't Tan do the Next in fashion show with Alexa Chung? It wasn't Gigi Hadid.
First season was Alexa Chung, second was Gigi Hadid. I just checked Netflix because I was confused too and thought maybe I was thinking of different shows.
I hope they all do well. They really became famous overnight, and I imagine the stress of all that's involved in that would be enough to keep everyone on edge. But in all honesty we don't know what happened, and what their relationships really are, and it's unfortunate but it happens.
It reminds me of Mythbusters and how once that show ended, both stars Adam and Jamie basically came out and said that they were not friends at all and that it was a purely professional relationship. It was weird considering how many seasons they did but I guess that's show business for you. Not everyone can be Keanu Reeves.
This is so disappointing, i understand reality shows are not “reality” in any sense but still! In my naive mind they were all the best of friends and they all are truly like their respective personalities. I could see JVN having a freak out here and there but knowing it’s a common occurrence for him to lash out at people is extremely disappointing.
Oh well. At least Antoni and Bobby are good people.
can someone give a tldr for the article? working rn and don't have time to read it all.
Lots of drama between castmates. No one’s really friends except two of them according to some production member. JVN is emotionally abusive and really nasty when things don’t go their way. Their individual businesses are floundering. Not good. Read when you have time :) but this is the gist of it
TL;DR: Surprise! Their real life personas don't always match their TV personalities.
They compete to see who can be the biggest star and tensions are real. They are not friends IRL.
Yes, and….
It’s behind a paywall for me
Try reader view
So Tan is kind of like Lewis Strauss.
I’m glad Bobby’s out of there. Good luck. Jeremiah!
Interesting that the horde of JVN fans that downvote anything negative about them and defend them, is completely silent
Bummer. Disappointed but not surprised. Obviously the picture on reality television is not the whole picture, and there were certainly eyebrow raising moments from several of them across the seasons, but you still hope that what you're watching isn't completely fake. And I'm sure there were genuine good intentions mixed with a lot of other motivations and dynamics, but it seems the other dynamics won out. With regard to JVN specifically, I'm not surprised knowing a very small amount of what they've been through. Trauma can often lead to issues with emotional/anger regulation. Which isn't me making excuses, it's just a well documented fall out from trauma, and was JVN's responsibility to work on it so they didn't hurt others. I'm disappointed to hear that production didn't step in to protect their employees from the start. Completely unacceptable from both JVN and production to let that continue. Either way, I wasn't very excited to watch the last couple seasons, and this makes it easy to stop entirely.
Welp, good for Bobby for getting out of that situation.