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Ryoka is actually mixed race. She's japanese and white. The white half comes from her father.
Something to maybe keep in mind is that Ryoka definitely has issues with her father. He's very much an establishment kind of person involved with politics and money. A lot of her rebelliousness and attitude seems like it can be traced back to that relationship.
Ryoka is 100% one of those types of people who grows up in a 3 story house with a 1k a month allowance who says stuff like, "eat the rich."
I think when Ryoka comments negatively on elite white people and goes on about politics what she is thinking about is her father both consciously and subconsciously.
Ryoka's "daddy issues" are a large part of her character throughout story.
I fail to see how family issues would change the fact that she judges other based on their skin colour.
If my dad beats me, I don't get to hate people just because they're the same colour. That's illogical.
Ryoka in the first few volumes isn't very logical at all. She rages out over nothing, refuses help when she needs it, turns down power while complaining she is too weak, and just bulldozes her way through everything until all her mistakes collapse onto her.
She has a pretty simplistic view of the world and thinks she's a lot smarter and wiser than she is.
She does mellow out and grow a few brain cells eventually when she realizes that she's constantly hurting the people around her. She's always a very flawed person throughout the story, though.
Oh I agree, there's nothing wrong with an illogical character.
I've been getting the feeling that the people here on reddit are acting as though it is logical, like it is justified.
Every character needs flaws, it's just a bit concerning when readers don't see them as flaws.
That's an interesting perspective it'd be nice if it's correct. That's a viable way to swing it. Issues with her dad, equates his whiteness to it. The authors criticism of how young woke people today are the most privileged people on the planet but at the same time often judge white people as some kind of inferior race who can't do anything but oppress and do evil things as a people. Like we're not all just people, our skin color doesn't mean anything. The author does only ever bring up white people being an issue when theyre writing from Ryokas perspective. So it makes your perspective seem likely. Its a shame most of the other readers seem to think my offense to it is so unappealing they downvote me into oblivion. Like "How DARE you take offense to racism! UGH!"
Honestly if you’re the type to rant about wokeness I don’t think you’ll want to read wandering inn. It has gay characters, trans characters, plot lines about how the entrenched homophobia in drake culture is wrong etc
I love it, but if you can’t handle book 1 ryoka you’re going to explode when you meet someone like Saliss.
I rant about wokeness and love the Wandering Inn series. It's funny, cause both sides complain about intolerance while concurrently being intolerant of differing opinions. When there is a great story, it transcends political fads like wokeness and MAGA. You might not realize it, but there are many themes in the series that very much reflect the opinion of many far right individuals.
This here. It’s insane how they don’t see it.
Just because I hate wokeness doesn't mean I hate gay people. Nothing wrong with identifying how you like. I don't judge people for how they look, like I said. If you're white, or gay, or identify as a man with the sex of a women, whatever. I'll work with you so long as its in good faith and we don't work against each others interest.
Something kind of irrelevant to what I'm posting about but more relevant about wokeness as a cultural ideology or whatever... They say they're all about tolerance and acceptance but really it's a very narrow brand of acceptance. They will tell white people to support them, but sideline and exclude white people at every turn. Creating non-white spaces, nurturing an enviroment of anti-white sentiment.
It's THAT double standard hypocrisy and thats why I dislike wokeness. I support people who don't do that of course, people who don't judge others by the color of their skin. But many woke people, pick one out of a hat, and they do. They'll say youre white you dont get an opinion and things like that. Thats what I dislike about wokeness, gay people are fine. People who want to act and dress how they feel inside are fine. I suggest you reconsider what wokeness is and means because that entire movement is in dire need of a reformation.
can you even define what woke means
Seeing the world through the lens of race and gender.
Woke could mean open mindedness, tolerance, diversity and gritting your teeth through uncomfortable conversations to get them out of the way.
But what it is in reality- often sabotages those things.
i am going to be completely honest about this, and I'm speaking as someone who is white. Spaces that exclude us are entirely acceptable to me.
We are still pretty close, time and generation wise, to a period of history where people of different skin colors and nationalities had to fight for the right to even use the same drinking fountain that we do.
When talking about sexuality, people against wokeness will generally complain about not wanting "ideology forced upon them"
how much media do you see that has straight couples and straight relationships in it? It's like 99% of the stuff that's out there.
These places you view as "exclusionary" are not spiteful towards you, they're small blips in the ocean of culture that are trying to form a foundation where they can eventually thrive and be considered part of what's normal.
The anger of the oppressed is justified.
Insane.
Didn't thought I would hear advocating for segregation again in the 21st century apart from members of the KKK. And still thinking of oppressed groups is a pretty ugly stereotypization.
it's ridiculously weird how you think i'm talking about segregation.
"Spaces that exclude us are entirely acceptable to me."
That's the definition of segregation.
So your saying to bring back segregation? Wild
Incorrect, I'm saying that allowing people who deal with completely different societal stresses than we do, a place where they can air those grievances with each other, is part of the healing process.
That’s segregation with extra steps.
So... segregation.
There really isn’t “wokeness” outside early Ryoka having a few off handed comments like the ones you mentioned. However, there are a lot of themes of racism throughout the book between species. And like the above comment said, there is a lot of gay characters, interspecies relations, etc. throughout the book.
Yeah, I did say the topic of wokeness is kind of irrelevant to the book, but is kind of relevant regarding the kind of response I'm getting here. A lot of what you just listed, I actually don't even consider woke. I believe that is just common sense. Gay characters, people who act jarringly different how they look. Or like the other sex. People who dress and act like how they feel inside. I feel like it's not woke to feel accepting towards these people. I feel like that's common sense. Woke is more like, the manipulative people who highjack these peoples movements towards acceptance as a vehicle to gain more power themselves.
That's all irrelevant to my point about Ryokas racism, racism is just racism. Acceptance of racism or the justification of it isn't an exclusively woke thing. Some people justify racism towards all manor of people for all manor of reasons. Woke just has a thing with justifying racism towards white people, it's their flavor of the day. I dislike Ryoka for Ryoka, not because woke people exist. Though the reception I've recieved here could roughly described as a woke reception.
Yeah, a lot of people on this sub and on Reddit in general are left leaning. Arguing online is not gonna change yours or anyone else’s mind. I actually agree those comments shouldn’t be in the book, though I think you’re blowing it out of proportion a bit too.
I love how they can never address the issues. They just get hung up on the word woke and suddenly nothing you say matters.
It’s crazy how the people that think they are the most inclusive, are the ones that judge others the most.
I think you need to touch grass and stop overanalysing a junky web novels literary concepts
Bad things in books ≠ author thinks those things
It's more about the fanbase at this point, we all know the character is meant to be disliked. But now many people in this subreddit are defending that character meant to be full of traits meant to be disliked- over her racism. Not everyone has the same opinion on it, but the lions share agrees with Ryoka on that point.
I don't like to say "Oh this is just a stupid thing, it's not important, go touch grass because grass is so much more important" like, that's kind of smooth brain. We all have our interests. If I wanted to do something overly important I'd be a surgeon or something. But it sounds boring and tedious.
I have a strong feeling you’d struggle to make it into med school, let alone surgical residency
There are multiple really annoying POVs in wandering inn, that’s just how it is
Okay? It's not really relevant to my point but okay. Was just an example.
Multiple annoying PoVs is also irrelevant to blatant racism that could be used to perpetuate harmful stereotypes about people outside a fantasy context. It's one thing to talk about orcs and goblins, different fictional species and quoting real world racism without consequences.
Sorry, no sorry.
The woke liberal media got another one 🫡
Yeah there’s no way you can handle the trans nudist war criminal lizard later. You should give up the story now.
There's plenty of PoVs in the story, many from characters that are morally questionable to downright evil. Ryoka's 'racism' is way, way down the sliding scale of character flaws.
You'll see themes of slavery, genocide, casual cruelty, extortion, drug abuse, bullying and much more by characters who, when written from their own perspective, think they're in the right or don't realize what they're doing is wrong.
If it's not something you enjoy or you want characters to quickly 'resolve' their flaws (or get what's coming to them), I don't think you'll enjoy the story too much.
Granted, many characters do realize their past mistakes, own up to them and make up for it. Ryoka does eventually get much, much less judgemental as she works through her laundry list of issues. Redemption is a big part of the story, but it is slow and it is earned.
I get what you mean, but there's a limit to that. No one wants to read some villain do villainy things unchecked and just succeed until the story is over and just acts as if it was never a problem, like what story is that supposed to tell? Who is that story meant for?
If you have a racist character as the main character, you'd be reasonable to expect that to be a character flaw they overcome. If not it's a trait the author likely sees as not a flaw and not merit punishing until learned from. IF that makes any sense.
Well, it's hard to discuss this in any detail without veering into spoilers. You'll see plenty of PoV chapters later on that aren't per se "main" characters. More like side characters starring in their own stories which get further connected with the overarching story later on, as heroes, villains or something in between.
As for Ryoka's specific issue you mentioned, (relatively mild spoilers ahead?) She's also a hypocrite and has a million flaws for which she does get called out on and resolves, or at least tries to.
Yeah, I noticed that Erin a white girl seems to be one of the few characters she connected with and seems to like. She opened up to her about her life when she met her after all. Her runner friend hung out with her for days on end and hasnt built that kind of rapport.
But still, saying "She has a lot of white friends though." is kind of a... It's not a satisfying response to allegations of racism, you know?
There's a ton of racists/speciesists in the books. One could probably argue that just about every character is bigoted against almost every other race. One of the main themes, in fact, is how weird everyone thinks Erin is for not being racist.
A couple of throwaway lines of Ryoka internal dialogue--which seem to highlight her dragging hangups from her old world into the new more than anything (another major theme), seem strange to focus on.
Racism against me pops out at me, it's jarring as a white person to read lines like "Be careful giving a weapon to a white person."
or "If this was a fantasy world based on hollywood movies than right now there's a scrawny white boy with the [hero] class running around saving the world"
Like that's not strange to focus on. Yeah, I notice she's a bit angry, entitled, thinks she can take a minotaur in a fist fight. I get it. But racism is a bit worse and the fact that you dont see that is strange to ME. Actually.
Once again, racism is a major theme of the books. It's all over the place. If you see the author praising it, well that would be a problem. The fact that it exists just shows that it is something Pirateaba wants to focus on.
Again. Ryoka is a complete mess, and her worldview/POV is the most problematic in the whole shebang. Which, if you were thinking critically instead of "how dare someone express anti-white views!"ing it, would probably indicate to you that, in the context of the greater theme, this is something the author is condemning.
So the author agrees with me and is creating a character to be the epitome of ignorance to make an example of her. Great. But are you reading these other comments? Jeez, people are upset that I dislike racism.
Like "How dare a white person be defensive over being white!"
Also, you're not the first to say "anti-white" stop saying that.
It's not anti-white, it's RACIST! I dont see why when a person says a black person, and arab person, or so on is more likely to do something they're not anti-black, they're not anti-arab, they're racists.
Man I'm tired of being burdened with the task of educating so many people but I guess its sorely needed judging by these comments. And yours is far from the worst, as I do understand that Ryoka is meant to be a shitty character. Shes meant to piss you off.
I'm mostly making an example of how her racism towards white people seems to accepted by the community. Its a dogwhistle racism group that gets hard on judging white people for their skin color. And its one of the few flaws of Ryokas that they connect with and dont see a problem with. It's wild. "Whow she thinks shes big and tough like a minotaur, what a bitch" like what??
Honestly (you're not going to appreciate this, but...) your comments lean pretty hard into stereotypes of white fragility. The two examples which cheesed you off so hard are incredibly mild, and unless you are more sensitive to bigotry against whites than anyone else, they don't stick out at all.
It's tough facing discrimination when one is not accustomed to it, but I suggest using that feeling to build empathy for something that others face every day.
This is all just OP failing to think of this critically.
In this series OP sees many characters say and act out things like "Goblins are pieces of shit that deserve to be fuckkng murdered in sight, even the children. Theres no redeeming qualities to their entire race and they should be exterminated" and says oh those guys are very racist but this is a cool, I'll keep reading.
But OP sees an Asian-American who has almost certainly faced racist comments their entire lives say "in Fantasy stories the main hero is usually some white dude" and takes it personally. Yeah, it's a little prejudiced, but OP seemingly only cares because it is a very slightly racist comment against their own race and so wants to drop the entire series.
OP seems incapable of understanding that this comment is very minor in the grand scheme of things, and is from the POV of a character, not the author or even multiple characters.
This stinks of ugly conservative white privilege.
There are some solid arguments for The Wanting Inn being an acquired taste or just not for everyone, but lasering in on anti-white racism is simply ridiculous. This whole thread feels like a troll post, and we should not feed the trolls (no bridge will be safe if we do).
It's not lazering in, Ryoka is a mean unlikable character in general. I get it, that it's purposeful. I saw how she thought she could fight a minotaur. Yeah... So aggravating...
But the second I say "Hey you know how she said that thing about white people?"
crickets. But the minotaur thing is valid. But racism is not. Greeaaat. Tells me more about you than it does me. It seems that while many of her toxic traits irritate you, her snap judgments of white people are one of the few aspects of her character that you actually relate with.
And again- it's not anti-white racism. People don't say anti-asian racism, or anti-black racism, they just say racism. So think about why that is a bit and stop doing it.
Well, white friends, a white partner, combined with never actually doing anything racist and stopping with the offhanded remarks before she actually hurt someone by saying them, if I remember correctly. I don't think it was ever explicitly acknowledged and addressed, beyond the "I should be less of a judgmental asshole" moments (yes she's had multiple of these).
No one wants to read some villain do villainy things
Excuse me, I do. Villains are great and if you can make it so the good guy is just about to overcome the villain but then it turns out that the villains dastardly plot was even more evil and unthinkable than anyone originally thought and they are all shocked in horror as they lose... chefs kiss instant subscribe.
youre an exception not the rule I d say.
I get what you're saying, anti-hero types. But surely it doesnt apply to like, a plantation owner who objectifys human beings. That applies more like to "Muhaha I stole your kingdoms acorn supply!"
That's an interesting take. You could actually look at it as her being racist in a different way...seeing the "primitives" like wildlife that need to be preserved in their natural habitat without ideas they aren't ready for.
On the other hand...that could just be her feeling better than everyone else. She is kinda insufferable.
I dropped the story because of her self-sabotaging tendencies.
Yeah honestly Ryoka being a butt is the whole reason I'm bothering posting, it could really be a character flaw she grows from. Thats why all I want to know from wandering inn readers is- does she stop it? Or until the very most recent page of wandering inn she's still doing it.
That information will tell me enough if pirate is worth reading.
Ryoka's flaws have been complained about a lot here but I've never heard anyone says that she "learns a lesson" or grows as a character. She gets less screen time...there's that.
You must not have heard many people talking about the story then.
Ryoka has a lot of character growth. Volume 1 is at her worst and where a lot of new readers grumble about her. Volume 6 and onward feels like a very different character.
Interesting. I've read a LOT of people talking about her, but most I've heard either liked her from the start or hated her.
Volume 6 is where she has her most important shift in character after being absent from the story for a while.
This is audiobook 10 which came out last year. If those people you heard were listening to the audiobooks, it's quite possible they were still talking early Ryoka.
Im up to date on the books and still find her absolutely insufferable, so you’re in good company
The most vocal ryoka haters are the ones who dropped TWI in like volume 2. In other words, they read 10% of a characters arc and know everything, because the chapters showing you ryoka has issues are obviously the final state of her character...
Ryoka has grown just as much as Erin imo.
I just don't get adding a character just for the sake of them being unlikeable. Like does the author hate their fanbase?
I don't think she is meant to be unlikeable. She is supposed to be Defiant. Lots of people fall all over themselves about those characters. One person's Defiant character is another person's assehole.
Plus pirate loves subverting tropes and does it a million times. Sometimes it works...sometimes it doesn't.
Yeah ryoka is sort of set up as a more common sort of isekai protag, but instead of the world moving to accommodate her like in most isekai stories she just keeps running into walls headfirst, i actually really love that
It's honestly weird that you read those quotes as "racist". They are classic comments about white dominance and privilege. White people did colonize the whole world and invent a bunch of our weapons. And literature, specially fantasy, is predominantly white with predominantly white heroes.
Those comments are not Ryoka being racist. They're Ryoka making very obvious comments about white privilege as part of her entire schtick as a rich girl rebelling against the system.
Do you realise you are being racist?
I'm irish. I'm white. My country was occupied for hundreds of years as a colony. We got our freedom 100 years ago. Was I born evil because of what people other countries and cultures did here?
The fact that you see white and not cultures is aboherent. Am I supposed to hate Mongols for what they did, or Japanese for their crimes in history?
The last time I checked, a son was not guilty of the crimes of his father.
You should recall that "white" is not based on skin color at all. White supremacy is rooted in antisemitism and Jewish ethnicity has pretty clear color. Similarly, the Irish were colonizsd and oppressed by the British and were, very much, considered their own ethnicity for a long time. If you think that definition is stupid? Blame the Nazis. But when someone refers to "white people" they're always referring to white privilege and the power that comes from being a white Caucasian from a colonise country. Being white is not a culture specific to anyone, it has always been a group self defined by "acceptability". The "whites" are those tolerated by "white society" and the cultures included change with the times.
And no, you're not supposed to hate anyone. Where have I advocated for hate? I merely stated that white people have recouped tangible benefits from the crimes of our forefathers. We are not guilty but we owe our socio-economic and political status to their crimes and saying that isn't racist.
And yes, that obviously includes the Irish. You were prosecuted a 100 years ago and now your country hosts the headquarters of the leading companies of the neoliberal empire and is just as busy recouping the benefits of the exploitation of the global south and exportation of production and manufacturing jobs to the far East as everybody else.
There's absolutely no point in hating anyone. But there's absolutely a point in understanding the advantages of being a lightskinned European from a rich western country. And some of those are that our countries are currently exploiting the resources of the whole world under threat of armed intervention. Another benefit is that we've a stranglehold on popular fiction markets almost world wide making it hard for people of color to identify with their own heroes, something which is slowly, and rightfully being corrected by promoting authors of different cultures.
That's the context of Ryoka's comments. If she had lived in the time of Genghis Khan it would be sensible to comment the same about the Mongols. If it was during World War 2 it would be perfectly fine to say the exact same thing about the Japanese. If she had lived in the pre-mediecal period she might even have a point that most stories were about people from the fertile crescent and the far East and there wasn't nearly enough attention given to the north and west European cultures that were treated as uncivilised barbarians. The context matters.
It's also worth noting that comment was made about giving weapons to the political leadership. It was never about disarming individual white people or anything dumb like that. Ryoka is pretty quick to befriend a white guy and give him the plans for catapults and siege engines to help defend his small village.
It takes a huge prosecution complex to see comments clearly gamed at the hegemony of the western empire built on the colonisation of people like your own and feel offended. If the hat doesn't fit, maybe it's not for you.
I'm not playing your games.
You know damn well what you mean when you say white people, or you wouldn't be using it. Exactly how the term black person would be understood.
You're racist.
??? That's hilarious. "You make good points that go against my world view so I'm just going to ignore them and call you racist!"
You are using the term white, then trying to pretend that the term white is some unusable unknown term
You are the one who decided to paint everyone with a pale skin tone under the term white and you are the one who used that colour as a justification to make racist claims about those people.
Yes, your view do go against mine. I am not a racist. I do not judge people based on their skin, or their history, but by their actions. Just as Martin Luther King thought.
I am not interested in pretending that what you're saying is valid, or entertaining your games of semantics.
I will point out the objective fact that your biases against white people and your blanket states about them are racist.
And I say this as a member of an ethnicity who's people were victims of the very thing you are trying to blame todays people for.
Edit: Also, I missed it, but no your points aren't good. They're racist. I'm not sure I can be much clearer that I find your views to be harmful.
Point out to me where I have blamed or judged anyone in my comments? You keep equating acknowledging privilege and current oppression with blame and hate for the crimes of our forefathers.
I'm not arguing about your concept of oppression. I'm assuming your American, I've seen that pony show
You've asked earnestly so I'll give an earnest answer:
You can't judge people on the colour of their skin, you cannot make statements about people or group them simple by colour. That is racism.
A person's colour has no bearing on their privilege. A person's class might, but that is different.
I'm not American. I'm Portuguese.
A person's colour has no bearing on their privilege. A person's class might, but that is different.
A person's skin color is very highly correlated with a person's socio-economic class so I'm not sure I follow.
If a person's socio-economic class has bearings on privilege and a person's skin color has a bearing on socio-economic class. It would follow from basic logic that a person's skin color has a bearing on their privilege.
It's not about individual examples. Of course there are poor white people and rich non-white people. That's obvious. Yet, our forefathers oppressed and exploited the native lands of a lot of ethnic groups. Our countries are still exploiting their native resources with little recompense going to the native people. And this means that, even in this world, if you don't have light skin you're likely to be poorer.
That's all I'm saying and it doesn't stem from any sense of white guilt or anything of the sort. If we can never speak of skin color "because it's racist" when skin color has a measurable impact on social and economic outcomes nothing will ever be done to correct this skew.
That's not to say that I even support stuff like reparations. I mostly don't for various reasons (most of all being that I don't believe the money would ever reach the people that need it most). I also don't think racial issues are more important than socio-economic issues. I believe that addressing wealth inequality is the single most important policy for diminishing race inequality. However, I think it's important to acknowledge that being from the dominant ethnic group in one of the dominant economic powers of the world is a position of extreme privilege, even if it doesn't feel like that sometimes.
A person's colour does not have a bearing on their class. In the Western world, equal opportunity is given to all people.
Arguably, there's been a slight tilt in favour of non white folk due to a number of sources, such as DEI and ESG investing. If you want to go into statistic, you're not very likely to be on of the 1% of wealthy people - regardless of your colour.
You don't have to agree with me, but your ideas that the colour you are born determines who you are is fundamentally a racist idea from my perspective.
Racist places where what you are saying might be true, but those places are simply racist.
I fundamentally, morally completely disagree with your views. We are all born equal in this world, even if some people get a head start by being rich.
Maybe there's some guilt in your culture from your own history, but the ideas you're saying are dangerous by my standard and are fundamentally racist.
They don't exist if you cant correlate colour to a who a person will be, they are entirely dependent on a racist perspective to exist.
And by the way, my forefathers weren't exploiting anyone. They were being starved to death in their homes.
Edit:
OP, I do want to say - I respect you defending your views even if I don't agree. I'm not just trying to shit on you, I genuinely disagree.
If we don't agree thats fair. I can at least see you seem to be coming from a place of wanting to be good, and not from a place of hate.
I don't think you're trying to be racist. I would simply say that your ideas are more bigoted than maybe you've considered
A great sign you have no idea what you are talking about and just parroting mindless racist dribble is claiming “white people colonized the whole world.”
Not only that factually incorrect, but it paints “white people” as some homogenous group. Did Slavic people conquer the whole world? Irish?
It’s as braindead a take as claiming “Asian people conquered the whole world” because of what the Mongolians did.
The unfortunate reality is that views like yours are excepted as mainstream, as critical thinking and historical knowledge appear to be at an all time low.
And the Aztecs cut out the hearts of living people on the top of temples, sometimes a thousand a day.
Are the descendants of native americans all evil people prone to making live sacrifices?
The Japanese colonized half the world and practically dominated China. Gun powder actually was a chinese invention btw.
The persians had an empire as big as rome with slaves and classism. So did the egyptians.
Are you justified in thinking any Japanese, persian, or native american is prone to evil acts?
All white people didn't unanimously decide to invent the atom bomb. All white people throughout all time and history didnt decide to war over land and resources. Think for a second. Judging white people just because theyre white is objectively inaccurate and reductive.
I don't see how so many commenters can be conflicted and angry over this simple fact.
All racists believe their racism is justified. Be better.
Well, I replied to most of these comments on another post but: Just mentioning skin color in a comment doesn't make it hate or racist. Ryoka makes one comment on the prevalence of white heros in stories and you think that's racist? How? What's racist about it? The fact that she's mentioning a true fact? She also mentions that giving weapons to white people has historically not ended well. Which is also true just as much as everything you said.
None of her comments are hateful. They don't encourage harm to anyone based on skin color. They don't encourage discrimination in anything except "weapon giving" but that's with the well understood context that "white men have enough weapons already". They're just normal comments about the world that allude to race because race is a very relevant topic.
You're not mentioning skin colour.
You are basing your entire perspective of all people of a race based on stereotypes and your own biases, and you're spewing it as an objective fact.
You are, by definition, being racist. You're simply being upvoted by other racists because your form of racism seems to be popular in the US now - at least that's how it seems. Never been myself.
That would make sense if "white" was a race or an ethnicity and not a made up distinction built solely as a way to deliniste the "acceptable" from the unacceptable. There's no such thing as white culture or white heritage. There's Irish culture, and Portuguese culture, French culture, Roman culture, Greek culture... Whiteness only comes into play in opposition to non-whiteness which is only ever used as an excuse for oppression.
I don't know how else I can explain it friend. She said "White people are [blank]", it's like saying the sky is blue. Saying that a scrawny white dude is prevalent in stories may be factually accurate, like sayin 50% of prison population is black in america. But WHY you choose to say so is suspect.
Understand now?
Because it's actually problematic how little representation people of color have in fantasy stories? That's why she said it. Much like saying 50% of the prison population is black in America is important to have people understand how lopsided the criminal justice system is. Also important to note how many of those are due to marijuana possession, a crime for which very few white people are ever be prosecuted (and let's not kid ourselves that white people don't smoke weed).
I don't see how saying true things about race statistics is bad. You're just trying to find reasons to feel like the victim when you're a member of the most privileged race, much like I am.
You do realize that the author made Ryoka say that because it's wrong and she wants her character to be flawed right? Not so that you agree with her racism.
White people making stories with people that look like them is only natural, everybody does it. That's not racist, what's racist is when they do choose to include a person who isn't white (Cause lets face it 'people of color' is a racist label and isnt okay to say) they do so in a way that judges em for it. Like if they include a black person they talk with slang and act a certain way because they're black. That's racist. Not having a black person at all, isnt racist, you don't get to make assumptions about the person who wrote the story just because they included mostly characters that look like them.
I'm not watching Tyler Perry's Madea films thinking "why isnt half his family latino and asian?" it's okay, he's not insulting me by not shoehorning in a token white character. It would feel patronizing if he did. Actually. In extreme cases like lord of the rings, I get what you mean but even in that case the worst he did was describe all elves as being fair of skin. But its not like those examples justify that whenever representation comes up, it's okay to diss white people. It's never okay, even if there were examples of white people being racist, its not like you can be racist towards white peopel in return. That isnt justice, its revenge and its regressive.
You do realize that the author made Ryoka say that because it's wrong and she wants her character to be flawed right? Not so that you agree with her racism.
Considering what ends up happening with said weapons... I really don't think that's the case. But you can believe what you want to believe.
Ryokas character is meant to be a foil to compare Erin to so yeah, I'm fairly certain about that. Erin is the role model character and she never says a sideways thing about white people, so you and the author have less in common than me and the author do. I bet pirate agrees with me and made Ryoka like that as a parody of people like you who think double standard racism is justified against white people. Woke spoiled people who've never worked a hard day in their lives. Judging others for their appearence.
Ryokas racism seems to be one of the very few of her toxic traits that people like you identify with, and it's very telling about the community on this subreddit. I hope one day you move past your hatred and mistrust of people who happen to have light skin.
I have light skin. 3/4 of my family have light skin. Most of the people I know have light skin. I don't have any hatred or mistrust for white people. I just understand that people with light skin have severely fucked up the world we live in and contributed to making the world worth ever since my own predecessors in Portugal decided to sail the seven seas.
Referring to white skin is not about the actual color of the skin, it's about the very real power that comes from having that skin colour. If you can't understand the difference between pointing out the privileges of having a given skin color and hating people for having a skin color, then you're hopeless.
You're the hopeless one. You're a proponent of everything you claim to despise, I can't believe you don't see that you simply MUST be trolling.
I don't care that you're white- that's my point. You having light skin means NOTHING. But that you have white skin, it's what you look like, it's racist as hell- like top tier racism- to believe that just because you're white, you somehow have some intangible connection to other white people.
Just because you're white yourself, doesn't mean you can't be wrong about whiteness, or be racist about whiteness. It's racist to believe that it does. You have provided no logical backing to what you're claiming. You claim that because you're white, you're more likely to be a certain kind of way. That you should turn a blind eye when other people talk down towards white people as if they have moral authority over them.
But if that logic holds true, then it holds true for EVERYONE regardless of race. So you're saying racism is justified and not a bad thing, that it's okay to judge a black person, a jewish person, an asian person, or any person, because of what they look like.
If a white person is automatically like other white people who've done bad things, that enough white people have done bad things that it sets a precedent for other white people to follow- because they're white- like omg its so fucking racist. Then that sets a precedent that if enough black people are in prison, it means you're justified in thinking every black person is likely a criminal. That if enough Jewish people own entertainment companies and banks, it means that Jewish people as a people are responsible for the actions and corruptions of those companies.
It sets off a dominoe effect of racism that simply ends in a race war because you're so hell bent on putting a persons appearence above everything else. I honestly don't see how you are unaware of the double standard hypocrisy you're endlessly spewing. It would be funny if I wasnt convinced you're actually serious.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, OP is currently crying on a right wing subreddit about how this post "uncovered a dark underbelly of leftist readers" that "revealed their toxic beliefs towards white people in society".
The point of this post isn't to write a book review for this subreddit. It's here so that the users in the r/critialdrinker subreddit can get mad at it.
What a fucking dork.
just wait until they find the gay people.... WANDERING WOKE!!!1111!!!
So I don’t know why r/criticaldinker keeps getting recommended to me by Reddit or what that subreddit is really about (other than they really really hate the acolyte lol), but OP’s post brought me here as well.
Before all y’all downvote, I’ve been consuming the fuck out of literary RPGs all year, so this subreddit seems right up my alley lol. So one man’s complaint is another man’s opportunity I suppose?
So I don’t know why keeps getting recommended to me by Reddit or what that subreddit is really about (other than they really really hate the acolyte lol), but OP’s post brought me here as well.
He's an anti-feminist and anti-"woke" media critic. It really isn't more complex than that and comes with all of the things you would expect to come from such a figurehead, including highly upvoted comments about "leftist Jews " being delusional racists.
Lol well fuck… that subreddit has been recommended to me for like 2 months now and I never cared enough to google. I guess since I shit on Netflix’s Witcher a while back, Reddit’s algorithm has me on the “Users who didn’t realize The Boys was a parody of US politics until this season” list.
That’s somewhat… disappointing.
If you like video essays there's an hour on Critical Drinker in particular here.
I was about to check. I knew it would be something like that.
My favorite part is further back when he is whining about a sub called “fragilewhiteredditor” being racist…
My favorite part is that they consistently refer to this subreddit as r/progressivefantasy instead of PROGRESSION fantasy. OP is scared of shadows.
Well, the left wing doesn't care so I can't really blame OP.
It’s not a dark underbelly. It’s blatant and in your face how racist and prejudice many of you are towards white people. Few of you try to hide it anymore.
You sound mad. Maybe some music that fits your mood will help you.
Thanks for proving my point
OP was correct. Downvote me.
If you can’t make a point without profile diving, that’s indicative that you don’t have a coherent argument that stands on its own.
Also, him sharing it to another sub is in fact cringe, but why warn people if the type of behavior he’s describing doesn’t exist? You can’t pretend that this doesn’t happen hundreds of times a day across this platform, many times from people on the opposite end of the political spectrum as OP.
That said… there’s tons of valid criticism in this post that you’re devaluing by using strawman tactics. I saw this because of the post on the other sub, and I agree more with the detractors than OP.
I didn't profile dive anything, OP told me about both posts when I saw their post in the critical drinker subreddit. I didn't have to click anything, it's linked right there. The only thing I did was let the people here know about it.
Swing and a miss.
A major undertone of the entire story is species/racism and it’s effects on societies? Really if Ryoka now is giving you a poor taste, a LOT of the subject matter in latter books could be stomach turning for yah.
There’s no ‘white hate’ here, Ryoka is Asian-American with a very contentious upbringing which parallels similar American racial experiences.
It'd be still meh, kinda weird, even if it was meant that Ryokas prejudice from the real world that it would run parrlel and contrast the racism or 'specism' in their new fantasy world they're trapped in. It's a bit raunchy as far as story telling goes but I can be on board with it. Like I said, so long as it confronts and over comes that ignorance, that racism and displays how such thinking is regressive and non-productive.
Ryoka does learn her fair share of lessons. What I'm wondering from the experienced wandering inn readers is if Ryoka ever is checked for her racist view of white people and learns from it like she did her anger issues and rashness.
In modern america it is in no way acceptable to judge people based on their skin color regardless of what their skin color is. Ryoka is from a modern world, not the fantasy one, she should know better to begin with to be honest. Also her type of headstrong character is very contradictory to her judgemental nature. like "How dare all these people judge ME." but then she judges all the other characters.
I don’t think anyone ever uses specific terms like her being racist towards a skin color, but she gets checked, and re-checked, and straight BODIED by her own stupidity and actions. She gets hers and in my opinion comes around
It's a bit jarring that Ryokas drones on about 'the dangers of giving gun technology to a white person' & the evils of white Imperialism, when she is (half) Japanese. You don't need to be a history buff to see the hypocrisy.
But at the end of the day it's just all her daddy issues she has with her white father.
Nonetheless I recommend the Wandering Inn series, just ignore her ramblings. It won't come up again later in the series.
It's refreshing to see someone who doesn't downplay it and act as if I'm overreacting to racism. Nothing is more irritating when people act like discrimination against you isn't a big deal. Most peoples attitude towards this has been; "Pfft, you're offended for not being treated as an equal based on your skin color? GTFO DOWNVOTE!"
So thanks.
lol this take is so ironic considering people completely ignore the weird worldbuilding aspect where the world consist of only /mostly white people and the minorities were all replaced with fantasy bird people /lizards etc.
I’ve never seen people actually point out how jarring it was to read about the one black guy and ryoka getting stared at becuase everyone else is blatantly white and they are the token minority characters . Iirc there’s some not!middle eastern I think ? I stopped reading a while ago but yeah the “think about the white people” take is definitely one.
Well the species thing is different, since like how their diets work, their anatomy, like you have to watch out for a lizards tail or mayeb they have some weird mating ritual. -They are different. They're species that are anatomically different with different instincts. You would be right to assume the Ants would leave you to die to defend their hive, they don't see themselves as individuals. This whole specism/ racism thing is not a clever metaphor and I dont think it is really meant to be. Since that metaphor would be kind of racist to make, to insinuate that just because our skin colors are different, that we're as different than a lizard person and an giant insect are from each other. You know?
Ryoka and this other black character being starred at is new for me, I'd appreciate it if you could find the exact wording. Maybe they were being starred at because they were human? I don't really make the metaphor between different species and different races because like I said they are completely two different things. I don't really see that metaphor working in any way that isnt racist.
Lol. What a silly take. There are a lot of reasons to dislike Ryoka early on in TWI. And you picked the silliest one.
If you think that take was too "woke" then yes, you should stop reading this series and focus on pure power fantasies which seem more up your alley.
You think my offense to racism against me for my skin color is silly? That if I read someone say "Someone who looks like you is [X] because that's how you look!" you know how ridiculous that sounds?
You're the silly one my friend. Learn some empathy
The comments made that you took offense to aren't racist.
I don't need to give another white person a weapon to use on indigenous people is a very reasonable take from a POC from our world. Look up what Britain did throughout history.
And, if it was our world a skinny white kid would show up and become hero is a simple joke about a very common trope. I'd venture a guess that 80-90% of the ProgFantasy and LitRPG books in existence do follow this trope.
Those aren't racism.
(Volume 5 Spoilers)
This is exactly what I thought the authors thoughts may of been when writing Ryoka. These comments are by definition- racism. It's simple- it's racist since you're predicating what they're doing based on their race. "They're white so they will [X]" you're predicting how they are and what they'll do because they're white. It's textbook racism, and the fact that you don't see that is because every racist believes their brand of racism is justified. That's your confusion, or mistake, is believing that it's justified. If you want to be able to test yourself, to tell if it's racist or not, insert different labels into the mix. Think about the line- "White people having weapons is dangerous" and exchange the word 'white' for any other race. If it sounds racist, it's because it is.
There was a time where many white southerners in american history believed their racism towards africans was justified too. You know. And we saw how that mentality plays out in the long run through history. That ignorance. Your ignorance. It's not a common trope, to diss white people as if it's perfectly acceptable to judge them based on their race. No, that's all you. And other racists. White people don't all belong to a single club called "white people", we don't all know each other, we don't work like that. I have as much in common with you as any other white person. Historically, all people have warred with each other. Before the colonists warred with natives, they warred with each other. Study what the Apache tribe did to the Comanche tribe. Study how Japan was just as imperialistic if not more so. How the Hans invaded China. How the Irish had to revolt against the English. How white people warred with each other as much as anyone else. We're all human, our skin color does not dictate our behavior. Our environment, our culture, our traditions do. Your view of history is very selective and antagonizes white people in order to justify your short-sighted hatred and biases of white people. Every racist has their ways of justifying their racism, you're no different than a 1700's plantation owner in that regard. My skin color means nothing to me, YOUR skin color means nothing to me. I judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin.
I hope that clears up your confusion and helps you grow beyond your ignorance and hatred. If a 'person of color', I hate that term by the way, like I'm a person of color too. It's not like I'm see-through. And it's not like any slightly tan person is vastly more alike than any white people. Anyway, if a black person, or any person, thinks that it's okay to hate white people or mistrust white people, it's because that person is a racist. It's almost as if history is doomed to repeat itself, people like you will gradually believe it's okay to be racist against white people in the same way they once believed it was okay to be racist against certain peoples. Just a repeating cycles of war and bloodshed because you're too proud to admit that a white person is your equal.
To clarify: I'm white.
This post is bollocks. You're reading into something that isn't there. Show me a single white person that suffers because they are white. Show me the white kids getting made fun off.
You're acting like a victim when you're simply not. You can't just Uno reverse card and think you're doing something. Yes, a lot of cultures in the world were imperialistic. Doesn't change the fact that white colonialism ruled the world for the last five centuries and we're about a century out from a war that killed millions justified by WHITE supremacy. Going "but the Japanese did a lot of bad things too!" doesn't invalidate that a lot of hate was commited in the name of being white. And it doesn't invalidate that, to this day, in pretty much every metric, you'd much rather be white male than not, other things being equal.
So no, when people bring up white privilege they're not being racist towards white people because "they're the ones pointing out skin color" they're merely pointing out the truth of the world. And you taking offence and seeing racism in that says more about you than about them.
No, white people are not a hegemon of bad imperialists. But we do have a lot in common as white people. Specially those of us that weren't forced to immigrate to non-white countries (The overwhelming majority of white people, of course): We never had to deal with racism. And no, black people being slightly mean to you because they have a chip on their shoulder about their own mistreatment isn't racist. And with the current meteoric rise in explicit neo-naziism and white supremacy accross America and Europe, complaining about the oppression of white people is, at best, tone deaf.
“Show me a single white person that suffers because they are white”
I’m a white guy & when I was younger I was at a secondary school that was primarily English-Pakistani (due to it being the closest school to where I live) and I suffered so much racism & bullying that I had to move schools. I am a walking example of something you claim doesn’t exist, it very much exists
Man you are like white fragility personified. And, for the record, I am a middle aged white dude. Lol. And I am not a POC, and I will not try to lay claim to that title since I'm not clear, which is a racist take that you just made, btw. I am a white man born into privilege and I am perfectly comfortable admitting that.
Why is it such a problem to you is my confusion. You hate the fact that I don't think I'm any more likely to be a butt because I'm white. How is that white fragility?
I'm not the one trying to justify my biases and snap judgments. If I see a person who is dark skinned, or whatever skin color, I don't think they're going to be any type of way because of it. They're as likely to be a criminal or a saint as I am until I learn the content of their character. I don't make snap judgments because of the color of their skin. How is it white fragility to demand equality?
I'm curious as to why you think so many aspects regarding race doesn't apply to white people specifically. I really don't understand how you could possibly believe you have the moral high ground here.
Instead of disputing what I said you just claim that I don't have the right to defend myself when others claim that I'm more likely to be evil because of my skin color. Ironically- because of my skin color. Like do you hear yourself?
Since you don't want to be educated, I just let AI handle this response for me...
The statement misunderstands how racism and white fragility work for several reasons:
Lack of Acknowledgement of Systemic Racism: The statement focuses on individual beliefs and actions while ignoring the broader context of systemic racism. Racism isn't just about personal prejudice; it's about institutional and structural inequalities that disproportionately affect people of color.
Misunderstanding White Fragility: White fragility refers to the defensive reactions some white people have when their racial worldview is challenged, particularly when discussing racism. It's not about individual prejudices but about the discomfort and defensiveness that arise from being confronted with racial inequalities and the role of whiteness in maintaining those inequalities.
False Equivalence: The statement equates personal experiences of bias with systemic oppression. While individual prejudices against white people can exist, they don't carry the same historical and institutional weight as racism against people of color.
Ignoring Historical Context: The statement overlooks the historical context of racism and how it has shaped current societal structures. Racism against people of color has deep historical roots that continue to impact their lives today in ways that do not apply to white people.
Defensive Tone: The statement exhibits a defensive tone that is characteristic of white fragility. Instead of engaging in a conversation about the realities of racism and how it affects people of color, it dismisses these concerns and shifts the focus to the feelings and experiences of the white speaker.
Minimizing Racial Issues: By saying "I don't make snap judgments because of the color of their skin," the statement implies that racism is only about personal attitudes and ignores how societal biases and systemic issues contribute to racial inequalities.
Demand for Equality Without Understanding Equity: The demand for "equality" without acknowledging the need for "equity" shows a lack of understanding. Equality means treating everyone the same, but equity involves recognizing different needs and challenges to achieve fairness. Without addressing the unequal starting points and systemic barriers, simply demanding equality falls short.
Ignoring the Experiences of People of Color: The statement dismisses the lived experiences of people of color who face racism daily. By focusing on the speaker's disbelief in personal prejudice, it invalidates the reality of systemic racism that people of color navigate regularly.
Overall, the statement reflects a common misunderstanding about racism and white fragility, emphasizing personal beliefs while neglecting the systemic and historical dimensions of racial inequality.
This isn't objective just because an ai said it, ai is trained off our data which is then manipulated by those who own the ai.
None of it has any academic backing or scientific or historical relevance. It's the furthest thing from objective or empirical fact. It's all just opinion and claims, that there is systemic racial injustice for one, and even if that exists that it justifies treating white people differently because of their race.
Like just because someone treats you unfairly means you're justified in treating them unfairly. That judging white people for their race is any different than judging any other race for their race. That white people feel a specific emotion called 'white fragility' that no other race feels. All this proves is that Ai can be as racist as people are...
I’m through book 6 and I don’t remember any jabs towards white people. I usually hate that stuff. It’s still an anti racist story at its core, but not the type where they have to make fun of white people, from what I’ve read.
Well I recommend you reread the section where Ryoka meets Magnolia and Magnolia becomes infatuated with her. She seems to know that Ryoka has hidden information. And Ryoka recalls her meeting with Ryoka saying that she didn't want to talk to her since she was so charasmatic she could unknowingly tell her something about her life in america that "Gives a white person another weapon."
Right now I have the page open for the latest quip- it's not but a few hours from the last one. When they're in the ruins after they rescued Ceria and Olesm. Erin and Ryoka talk about hollywood movies and if this new fantasy world worked like those movies then; "That was right. Somewhere, out there, a scrawny white boy would appear out of nowhere and be crowned the chosen one. He'd probably get the [hero] class, a magic sword, and a scar just to be on the safe side. Add in a female lead and a plucky side-character and you had a series."
That is an exact quote so maybe you're missing it. I'm done reading the wandering in, honestly, based on the likes and dislike ratio of this post, the apathy and downplaying of it- it's all a red flag to me and I'm convinced that the wandering inn fanbase have some dog whistle racism going on that I refuse to support and be apart of.
I believe you, I’m just saying I’m millions of words past that so I’ve forgotten it and I haven’t seen enough anti white racism for it to stand out.
Its not anti-white racism its just racism. The racists partition things based on race, we don't. But its nice to know it stops after volume 1.
I don't see what is wrong with the quote about the scrawny white boy thing. It is calling out a ridiculous trope that has existed for decades and exists in lots of forms of media. There are many films about while dudes showing up to different cultures, becoming partially integrated and saving them. It's calling out those really weird tropes. I'm pretty sure that was like the core concept for most 80s and 90s hero cartoons.
Is the white representation in the room with us right now?
Honestly when people bring this up I don't get it. Like I haven't seen it, since I've grown up there's been characters of all kinds. Aladin, almost exclusively indian. Mulan, almost exclusively asian. Pocahontos, atlantis, hunt for treasure whatever, el derado, man the list goes on. Nothing is "really weird" here but your interpretation of things. It's not a trope, there is no trope, you just dislike seeing white heroes and thats your trope.
I dont see it being an excuse to rip harshly at a person and say their skin color while insulting them like that with such connotations. If it wouldnt work saying it about any other race, it wouldnt work saying it about white people. How people refuse to accept that in this community is beyond me.
El Dorado is literally about two white dudes showing up and saving a foreign culture.
Atlantis is about one white dude coming in and saving and indigenous culture,
Those are from the examples you listed. Off the top of my head there is the Last Samurai and Avatar (the blue people one).
I'm sure there is a list somewhere but it doesn't matter. You don't see that in your examples are the exact trope that you are saying does not exist.
If you only care about racism when it targets a specific group, you don't care about racism.
It's very clearly a dig at Harry Potter and the Neverending Story and Percy Jackson and the Chronicles of Narnia and several other properties that had "normal suburban boy discovers something and gets to a land of adventure." That "normal" usually meant "white" went unremarked.
It's like how if you watch a lot of WW2 movies, there is a tendency to insert Americans where there really weren't any. (See the Great Escape or U 571)
The "scrawny white kid" bit is a jab at the common trope. It doesn't seem racist on its own but seeing the second quote leaves me wondering if I'm being too charitable. "I don't want to give white people another weapon" on another hand... the best part is that she's half American half Japanese form what I've gathered. Pretty ironic.
It doesnt make sense how people don't see it, the only way you can think that saying "If this was like a hollywood fantasy movie, then a scrawny white kid with the hero class would be saving the world", is if you think that judging white people by their skin color is more justified than any other race.
Which is incorrect.
That's not the only way though. If someone believes that for a long time there was a lack of minority representation as protagonists and heroes in main stream fantasy and that it was predominantly white male main characters, it's not racist to think of that as a trope to jokingly expect in a fantasy scenario.
It's not a judgement of white people for their skin color, it's a judgement of the fantasy genre.
It's actually humorous how Ryoka-like OP sounds based on the post and the comments OP is making here.
I hope the irony is not lost on you, OP. Come back to this post in a few years and see if you're cringing from what you wrote here.
I don't think I'll ever regret saying that it is a negative character trait to judge people off their appearance alone. If anything, all the commenters who believe Ryoka is justified in saying these things are the most Ryoka like. The author wrote those things for Ryoka because Ryoka is meant to be a disliked character. But the fact that it's one of the few toxic traits so many in the TWI community relate to her over, makes them the Ryoka.
I'm no Ryoka, you Ryoka.
There's a lot of racist characters in TWI but I don't think Ryoka is one of them.
She's an hypocrite that has a huge problem with authority figures and people who got shit handed to them for free without working. And growing in the US, it's pretty easy to see why it's the first thing that came to her mind. Color/Race/Species have never been an issue with her when it comes to interacting with other people. Exept goblins
The US is the most diverse country on the planet, she should be beyond such ideas like "if you're white you're more likely to be an evil person".
But judging by some of these comments, the like and dislike ratios, Ryokas racism towards whites is one of the view toxic traits of hers they relate with. Its disturbing to see it in the progressive fiction community. Honestly.
I understand she has white friends, Erin being one of them. She actually connects with Erin right away unlike any other character, but after connecting with Erin she made the "scrawny white protaganist" joke. They're more pissed about her thinking she could fight a minotaur and get mad at me when I bring up her racism towards whites because they actually liked that part of her.
I'm not sure where you got the "if you're white you're more likely to be an evil person" from. White, black, orange, human or drake, she's not willing to bring over weapon of mass destruction from earth to the innworld. It backfires spectacularly later on when she tells the WHITE German [Emperor] how to make catapults.
Hell she's one of the more open earther down to fuck anyone no matter the sex, age, color, race or species.
There's a lot critisism going toward Ryoka from the fans and people who dislike the series that is well deserved but being racist is not one of them.
Well the "I dont want to give another white person a weapon" line made me believe that she thinks white people are more likely to be tyrannical. As some people are saying, she likely is meant to be an example of the typical woke spoiled kid like many of the commenters here, who think they're justified in their hatred and judgement of others for how they look.
I see a lot of little Ryokas in the comments telling me I just have white fragility and I bet they think they can take me in a fist fight despite not taking any classes.
Yeah she's very much a rebellious rich kid that stands against everything she was raised in. Power, wealth or authority. She certainly has stereotypes, but hasn't shown any hatred toward whites or any other races exept goblins early on.
That's factually not true. I provided two quotes. If you don't see them as racist, then... It's because you're a racist. And it's not racist to assume goblins are less intelligent and prone to violence. That's like saying it's racist to assume a Lion is more likely to maul you than a goat. That's not racist, that's acknowledging genetic differences between species. The fact that you believe judging a goblin as different is racist, makes you racist. As if it's a metaphor for racism between human beings, as if a difference in skin color translates to a massive difference on the genetic level. There is this confusion between the metaphor of racism with the species in the story, but you must understand that unlike people- Antinium have a tendency to snap and murder others when they see themselves as individuals. If you think their differences between the gnolls and drakes is a metaphor for racism that makes you a racist. As if our differences go beyond appearence and go deeper. Understand? The author can make a metaphor teaching "Hey, don't make snap judgements about peoples appearence" and sometimes if you see a giant spider spitting acid, try not to talk to it first. It's not simply a metaphor for racism and its racist to believe that it is.
I hope this proved educational for you.
I think everyone else has said their piece. I'm surprised your problem with Ryoka isn't the usual one: her hard-to-stomach attitude towards people helping her, her own stubbornness. I'm part of the TWI camp who skipped Ryoka's earlier chapters and then came to love Ryoka's later chapters because she's completely changed.
I don't remember any of these "white" comments. Maybe it's been too long and it pales in significance to early-Rkyoa's other blatant actions that made her my least fav character at that point in time.
I've been reading TWI the last two weeks, I'm almost done volume 3, and while I do specifically remember both of the comments by ryoka OP refers, those are the only 2 comments like that I remember. I've felt very frustrated with a lot of ryokas thoughts and actions, but those 2 comments barely registered at all.
Judging by OPs post and follow up comments overall I can't help but feel like they made this post fully expecting and wanting to troll a left leaning 'woke' community and fight over this.
lol
Just drop the book and move on. You won't have a good time with it.
At first this thread was about the book but now I'm raising my eyebrows at the community. Are you reading these comments? Jesus christ. Like four different people said 'anti-white' instead of racism. It's bad here.
My pet theory is that TWI's fanbase and Steven Universe's fanbase have significant overlap.
Disclaimer: I have not read the series.
Judging by the replies to this post, I would assume two things :
Ryoka does not overcome this particular flaw.
Some readers seem to not view it as a flaw.
Yeah, judging from the apathy and downplaying from the community I'm guess you're right. If the like / dislike ratio is anything to go by, they're upset that I'm upset about racism. They don't even have the balls to admit it though. Just admit it, you dont like white people and you think that is justified.
But they wont. Theyll just downvote and say Ryoka sucks as a character in general. Like racism is just a small character flaw. Really tells you a lot about the wandering in fan base. They have a little clan going on.
Here's a bit of context you might have missed:
12 million words and many years later, some people might not remember the exact wording and could instead remember early Ryoka general attitude as "edgy teenager rebelling against The Man because daddy was rich."
Early Ryoka doesn't consciously realize that this world is not America or even Earth. She lets her biases flare brightly. Don't worry, Ryoka gets some well deserved humble pie and she eventually realizes that her first instinct is rarely correct.
We're talking about an ordinary girl without levels who thought she could beat a level 30+ minotaur in hand to hand combat.
Even in the context that she is in america doesnt change anything. Believe that because a person is white they're more likely to do evil shit is just straight up racist.
I dont see how that confuses so many people. Racism against white people isnt any more justified. "OH BAH BAH they were imperialist! History proves white people are dangerous!!"
Like all white people are from the british empire or rome. Just racists justifying their racism. Same ol' same ol'. No different than the plantation owners.
This was not my point. At all.
Ryoka starts off as an immature edgelord with tons of daddy issues. You saw something she did/said/thought that was stupid? Congratulations, you can read.
This is not the author speaking through her and readers are not expected to agree with her, this is a flawed character being established as flawed. She goes through character development. She realizes that she doesn't know nearly as much as she thinks she does. She realizes she has a terrible attitude. She makes an effort to be better.
What do you even want at this point?
You’re not gonna make many friends here by calling them out on it.
True, my karma score is suffering rn. Sometimes telling the truth can be a loving act, I haven't insulted anyone at least. They need to hear it, I don't want the community I love to be so wrapped up in hatred and not even know it. Look at some of these comments, I think I'm making a difference here. They'll downvote me now, but what I've said here will stew in their subconcious and in the long run they'll see that I was right.
You’re being positive but don’t be naive. Most people will double down on their beliefs before admitting they are wrong and nobody who disparages a certain race to empower another (likewise with gender) will be doing that before their entire worldview is changed.
Up for 5 minutes and already got some racist downvoting. Not a good sign.
See complaint about down votes - > down vote.
Its not so much about the downvotes but in this specific case why theyre downvoting. Its weird to downvote a person complaining about discrimination, you know?
People are weirded out because you're okay with every other form of discrimination or problematic behaviour but you only care about the one that impacts you.
Maybe some people think it's weird that with all the overt racism in the books (which is condemned throughout), you are only concerned with two sentences focusing on white people--sentences from the most flawed character in the whole series who's entire schtick is "I'm a mess and need to get better" (and she does, gradually, because it's millions of words long).
I don't see how, they're misunderstanding something if that's the case.
Imagine if Rey in the latest star wars movie thought to herself; "I better go into this store instead, they'd probably think Finn would steal something"
wouldn't that set off red flags? Why is it different when its racist towards a white person? You wouldn't say "Man its weird to be offended by that, I mean Rey is a bitch to begin with. Why are you tripping over her racism?"
like bro youre the weird one lol.
It's more like if Kylo Ren thought that. You'd be like "jeez that guy is a douche," and that would be the point. Early Ryoka is not a moral compass character like Rey is, she serves largely to highlight the difficulty with carrying cultural baggage into an alien situation. Extremely overtly so.
You can't oppose racism (or anything) if it isn't in your art.
The irony of you using star wars (a story where all three trilogies have a scrawny white kid as the chosen one) as an example is astounding all the while still trying to convince people that "the scrawny white kid chosen one" comment is a racist comment rather than a jab at probably the biggest troupe in fantasy is honestly hilarious.
Okay! Two part comments are fun to write. First about the books:
To directly answer your question about Ryoka, her relationship with race and class are core to her character, but her crass attitude towards the world is largely portrayed as her greatest character flaw (this is pretty clear even in TWI and Fae and Fare). Her arc will see her becoming a more sociable, more open, and overall just less punchable a character. If that’s what rubbed you the wrong way about her, you’ll be fine.
Now, onto Ryoka’s politics. They do not change. They are shaped, challenged, and summarily solidified as her story progresses. If your issue is her race and class consciousness, I’m sorry to say you will remain disappointed (though I’ll be fair and say it does take a backseat to her personal character development after the events of Winter Solstice). There will never be a point where she learns she’s wrong about white people (primarily because that’s just… not what the books are about).
Lastly, I want to dissect two bits of your politics and that of the book and how those are playing together. Mostly because I find it fascinating.
Ryoka’s comments about race are not racist. Are they misguided in the context of a young mixed girl popping into a fantasy world and assuming the same socio-economic patterns will play out under entirely different social and political landscapes? Yes. But the comments are only off in the specific context of her being in another world and her acting like she knows everything (that’s like, her whole shtick in the early days).
If I, as a person in the US today were to say to a rich white lady “I don’t want to give more power to another white person” that is not racist. It’s an acknowledgment of a very real power dynamic present in society (though I’ll admit that gap is shrinking, no where near as fast as it should be but still, some credit).
The “scrawny white boy” comment is similarly not racist. It’s a comment on real world trends in media overwhelmingly portraying hero’s as white (again, this is getting better, but slowly).
Just because a comment is talking about race, even in a negative light, does not make it a racist comment. Racism is ultimately about differences in power, influence, and treatment. A very good example of this is, as you mentioned, the way the drakes treat Erin. Also the way the drakes treat the antinium. Aaaand the way the drakes treat gnolls, selphids, lizard folk, really any non-drakes tbh (if it’s not obvious, the drakes got a racism problem…).
Okay, I don’t have a tidy point to wrap this up in, but I’ve said most of what I can think of for now. Hope you enjoy the rest of the series, it truly is some of the best world building and character writing out there if you can get past your issues with its politics. If not, welp, it’s your loss.
I never read TWI but it seems like there's some major white guilt cuckery going on it's community lmao.
Is racism against white people normalised in the US? Or do they believe that you can't be racist against whites? I'm from Morocco so I'm not very familiar with the shit that is going on there.
Edit: I don't need to give a muslim another bomb.
I don't need to give a black man another Triangle Pick.
I don't need to give a mexican man another ladder.
Lmao.
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