Do you think George W Bush will later get Richard Nixon treatment and be seen as more complex figure instead of just as bad president?
DiscussionNah I think people will just see him as a bad president
Poor domestic policy and as time goes on people will act like they didn’t support the Iraq War so his reputation will only worsen there too
I think he already is
Nixon wasn’t a complex figure. He was simply a bad president. I swear his foundation is paying people to go on here.
But both Nixon and Bush will be remembered fondly for issues that were common sense in their time, but have since become hyper polarized. For Nixon it was the environment, for Bush, it was legitimately wishing the best for his successor and doing everything he could to help him.
Nixon was absolutely a complex figure. He had a real support for and pushed hard for civil rights and desegregation, but was also happy to race-bait to win in 1968. He made a name for himself on the HUAC as an ardent anti-communist, but was pragmatic enough to see the value in opening up China and pursuing detente.
Nixon expressed a genuine vision for a better world, but was willing to engage in morally reprehensible acts to get there. He was both incredibly awkward around others and also intimately tuned into the feelings of many Middle Americans in the late 60s who felt ignored.
Read about Nixon’s earlier visits to and writings on post-war Europe and Asia and it’s clear he was not an idiot - he demonstrated clarity, intelligence, and remarkable political foresight. Yet underpinning all of that was a deep insecurity that created an enduring contempt of intellectuals and an authoritarian loathing of the press.
I think it’s fair to say Nixon was often blinded by his emotions and became increasingly unbalanced as time went on. Self-reflection was not one of his strengths, but right at the end, in his farewell remarks to White House staff, an unexpected moment of what seemed to be true introspection:
Always remember, others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself.
Nixon was a walking contradiction and an incredibly complex person. He was also a bad president. The two are not exclusive.
Bush was a terrible president both domestically and internationally. He left the office of the president so much in tatters that Democrats came in and had unprecedented majorities in both houses of Congress - and Obama even won INDIANA. The guy was such a joke that he tried to appoint his deputy chief of staff to the supreme court. That was so ridiculous that even Republicans said "nah."
I've noticed him being rehabilitated in some circles, especially this sub recently, possibly for reasons related to things we're not allowed to discuss on here. I suspect many of these people were not alive to really experience his presidency.
From the perspective of a future historian, no I don't think he'll be looked at like Nixon, who was a statesman and created the EPA. Iraq was an unmitigated disaster, leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and causing the US's worldwide perception to be in tatters. Also, BS stunts like opening Congress up in the middle of the night to "save" Terri Schiavo from her husband will be looked at as the meritless pandering to the worst kind of person.
I think he'll mainly get the Nixon treatment because of how the T Party movement and how Rule 3 drove the Republican party further against Bush's "Compassionate Conservatism"
I think he’ll aways be thought of a tool for Cheney. Just not ever intelligent.
It is happening. Having been a voting age adult during the Dubya presidency, I'm always surprised to hear the least complex president in living memory described as "complex".
Good question. Likely
He’ll get worse with time.
I don't think so. Nixon was seen as a bad president because of Watergate. He had a few policy flubs but overall was a decent president.
Bush was seen as a bad president because of his actual policies.
Cambodia and Laos would like a word...
In my opinion W. was just not a good president. I think he has gained a more sympathy because he did have a more challenging presidency. 9/11 was probably one of the most significant events in US history and would have been tough to navigate for any president. His biggest issue is he doesn’t have any major policy wins that changed America for the better.
Even though Reddit hates Nixon, he was pretty competent. I’d argue his legacy is more than just watergate. He was skilled with maneuvering within Cold War diplomacy, and has domestic policy that has outlasted him and has aged well (EPA, OSHA, desegregation of southern schools, among others). There is a reason he obliterated McGovern in 72.
The reason he obliterated McGovern was because he sabotaged the best candidate in the primaries with a criminally forged letter. Muskie was beating him in the polls, while McGovern stood no chance.
Same with 1968, he committed treason to win that one. Nixon never ever won fairly, and that’s why he remains the only president to be removed from office.
Muskie wasn’t beating Nixon with or without the Canuck letter. The economy was doing too good and foreign policy looked like it was going in the right direction. It might have been closer but not even competitive.
What are you accusing him of in 68? Between RFK being killed, Wallace being somewhat successful, and the complete shitshow that was the end of LBJs tenure, it wasn’t a friendly election for the Dems.
Probably
No because he doesn’t have the accomplishments that Nixon does.
Trust fund baby. Mediocre student. Inherited his entire career. Sat in the Oval Office and watched TV while his advisors ran the show.
So what’s not to like?
I doubt it.
The difference between Nixon and Bush is that you can point to things Nixon did that people who weren't Nixon voters like.
You can't do that with Bush. There's no "well at least we got X" for a rehab to hang its hat on with people who didn't vote for Bush at the time
Nah, he'd be quite hated
I think its already happened to a certain extent. Mind you, the bar is extremely low now because of certain events. But yeah, people now think of him as the nice guy who gave Michelle O some candy instead of the guy who started a war based upon his own propaganda (while exploiting the feelings of goodwill post 9/11), mishandled the financial crisis and left the country in recession. W was a bad president no doubt about it. But we still hear people yearning for those days because they werent as bad as when someone else was president. Like I said, the bar is low.
By the way, Nixon really isnt that "complex". He was simply a paranoid sociopath who was so deeply cynical that he always had an ulterior motive for everything he did. Take the EPA for example, because everybody uses that to say he was "complex". He only did that so that he could use it as a political tool to help him get re-elected and look like he was doing something about all the environmental disasters of the day, such as the Cuyahoga River repeatedly catching on fire, Lake Erie being a dead zone, etc. But he never meant for it to be anything more than a toothless figurehead, and Nixon himself (along with many others) felt environmentalism was just a passing fad. Its why he vetoed the Clean Water Act (he wasnt actually an environmentalist at all and wanted to protect businesses over the environment). The man was a bad president even without Watergate and its coverup, because he did bad things like illegally carpet bomb Cambodia and Laos, manipulate the economy with price controls and pressure the Fed chair to keep interest rates artificially low to hold off a recession prior to the 1972 election (which helped cause the stagflation of the 70's) and of course using the FBI and IRS to threaten and target his "enemies". The man was a disgrace to the presidency and damaged the office itself. Years later during the Frost interviews he blamed the media for destroying his presidency (when his own actions caused his downfall) and famously stated that "when the president does it, its not illegal" which just proves that Nixon always felt he was above the law.
Reddit libs love dubya already. All it took was him being on Ellen Degeneres' show a couple of times to forgive him for War crimes.
God I hope not. That guy sucks.
Say what you will about Nixon, but he didn’t start two pointless wars and spend seven years stoking people’s fears about terrorism.
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