So I've been noticing a type of movement in this new wave of power metal scene is that some bands are now introdocing cyber metal into the mix mostly the latest album releases of dragonforce and orden ogan and possibly Amaranthe being the main influence of this, And many other band with a ton of Electronic/Synth mix into it. I want to hear your thoughts about this. Will you like Power Metal to stay inclined with this Fantasy-like theme or do you agree on it's Cyber Metal theme or both like it and have a thought to even mix Fantasy and Sci-Fi theme in Power Metal
The Modern Ages of Power Metal now Mixing it with Cyber Metal
Prophet of the Last Eclipse came out over 20 years ago
cyber metal is actually a thing and it is essentially heavy guitar riffs combined with synthesizers creating a chaotic futuristic sound, at least thats what i could find on it. however im all in for it, those albums op has listed are some of my favourites
That is literally just industrial by a different name, just say it’s mixed with industrial metal
Maybe the idea is more computerized and less mechanical sounding? But I agree and was going to say the same.
Idk how it gives you polar opposite “vibes,” it’s literally a defined genre
Industrial metal is heavily built upon its synth usage. Think Rammstein, NIN, Rob Zombie, KMFDM. Still heavy while having a “futuristic” sound
So basically what Beast in Black does? Hell yeah sign me the fuck up!
I’ve never once heard that phrase until this post
nor had i, but it was just a google search away
Yeah, and when I did, I got a link to a "rate my genre" for a clearly user generated genre, a thread from the cyberpunk subreddit (like the game,) and link to nu metal.wiki, plus a band camp page for a band called "cyber metal."
And the linked categories on that first hit are a clear illustration of my point: every "cyber metal" band is part of another metal subgenre already. Or isn't metal at all - it's synthwave (often dark synthwave) featuring heavy guitars. Master Boot Record wouldn't call themselves a metal act - they're a DJ creating compositions on a computer.
The idea of "heavy guitar rifs with synthesizers = new genre" doesn't make sense, because what you'd get is such an overbroad category that covers a bunch of obviously unrelated subgenres. Victorious, Caldweller, Amaranthine, The Algorithm, Khonsu, Mick Gordon's compositions for stuff like Doom/Killer Instinct, Dance with the Dead, Bring me the Horizon, and Unleash the Archers would all fall under this "cyber metal" subgrene, which is just nutty because the stuff I listed don't really share a lot in common besides "have synth instruments and a guitar involved somehow."
If it's a real genre, it's completely undefined to the point that even the people trying to classify it are just slapping the label on everything.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but according to RYM the term dates back to the 1990s when it started being used for Fear Factory. I've never seen a primary source for that, though.
As a big fan of both power metal and synth heavy music, this is right up my alley!
Why is this being downvoted
If it's being downvoted, it's because it's an incomplete explanation. It reads like OP just googled 'cyber metal' and is regurgitating what they found without much insight or expertise.
A more complete answer is that 'cyber metal' is a term that's been around for years as one of a series of names for a loose intersection of sounds around the intersection of hard rock and electronic music. It's related to 'industrial metal' and has a lot of the same problems, i.e.:
Name aside, it's not really an off-shoot of metal music; it's more like heavy guitars and electronic beats put together in a kind of synth/rock context. Actual metal influence is going to vary a lot depending on the riffs and how the song is written.
The usage is very imprecise. Nobody seems to know what it is, apart from just the vague sense of needing a word for when distorted guitar riffs show up in aggrotech, industrial, synthwave, EBM, darkwave, etc., or when ostensible metal bands take some influence from those.
Its existence (mostly the fact it's called 'cyber metal') is basically an invitation for people to argue about the lines between one genre and another. A lot of metalheads reject these kinds of genres, and more general music fans don't entirely understand why.
It would be interesting if someone who's better-versed in electronic music could weigh in with some insight into the sound and history of 'cyber metal' scenes and movements (if they even they exist), but something tells me that's not going to happen. I don't think there is very much to 'cyber metal' apart from being a convenient word for genre fusion artists like Deathstars or maybe Amaranthe.
I don't mean to say it's a "made-up subgenre" like 'dark metal' but it's honestly pretty close.
Why are you still gaming, you said you wanted to get rid of that addiction and become a normal person
The only time I have is when people use it as another term for Industrial metal, which is it's own sound that is nothing like the bands OP mentioned. Most of the well known bands under Industrial metal (Rammstein/Ministry/Rob Zombie/Powerman 5000) were more hard rock mixed with 90s industrial music and don't really have anything do to with "metal with synths/sci-fi themes." Not only that, but this notion that PM only started mixing pop/electronic elements in the 2010s is odd since that has been going on for decades and wasn't just recently started by Sabaton.
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Okay, there's a lot ot dissect here. Ignoring the discourse about whether or not 'cyber metal' is a real genre, I'll break it down like this:
So I've been noticing a type of movement in this new wave of power metal scene is that some bands are now introdocing cyber metal into the mix mostly the latest album releases of dragonforce and orden ogan and possibly Amaranthe being the main influence of this, And many other band with a ton of Electronic/Synth mix into it.
This isn't new. EUPM has had an electronic component for decades, going back to when bands like Gamma Ray and Stratovarius started playing off new wave and synthpop influences. The latter especially have made it major part of their style since the 1990s, and they've only increased it over the years. Listen to this song from their 2011 album, Elysium, and notice how integral the electronic aspects are:
This isn't just the product of Helloween style + keyboards, it's a full-scale synth/metal fusion. I can see why you would compare it to ostensible 'cyber metal', but historically it was always just considered prog/power. This is what EUPM does when you break it away from the old-school heavy/speed/power context and go all in with the progressive and genre-bending side of it.
Newer bands are finding new ways to play around with that. I do think there have been a number of power metal bands in the last several years that have been re-examining their ties to electronic music and possibly finding ways to expand on that and mix things up. For me, Beast in Black is the one that really comes to mind.
Amaranthe influence might have something to do with it, but I wouldn't call them the main influence. The main influences are Stratovarius and that wave of poppy bands like Heavenly, Freedom Call, Power Quest, etc. A few years later there were more bands like Keldian and Cain's Offering, who maybe turned up the dial a little more. Then eventually we got Battle Beast. This is to say nothing of Sabaton.
Maybe the proximity of Amaranthe as being popular with the EUPM/pop-metal crowd helped push things to where they are now, but all the ingredients were already there.
I want to hear your thoughts about this. Will you like Power Metal to stay inclined with this Fantasy-like theme or do you agree on it's Cyber Metal theme or both like it and have a thought to even mix Fantasy and Sci-Fi theme in Power Metal
I have no problem with it, musically. I enjoy this sort of EUPM/pop-metal stuff as long as it's done well. I think it's cool to hear bands doing new stuff with it. If that means reaching deeper into genre fusion with electronic music, that's cool too, as long as we recognize it for what it is.
Synth music is not metal, and further exploration of that space is going to yield further discussion about what is and is not "really metal" in the conventional framing. A lot of metalheads are not going to enjoy the new sounds, and they might not be especially receptive of the new bands. There are ways of navigating these topics with maturity, and I hope we can do that as a community.
As far as themes go, sci-fi has been a theme in power metal for decades. Check out this Omen song from 1985 with a synth intro and lyrics about the Terminator franchise:
Again, none of this is new. It's just being expanded upon. If new bands want to explore space fantasy lyrics instead of medieval fantasy, that's there prerogative. I don't really care; dragons are cool, but so are aliens. I don't think it really matters what bands choose to write about and explore aesthetically, as long as it's not too offensive.
My last real thought is that I dislike calling it a "cyber metal theme" because that's not really what those words mean.
Anyway, here are some great pop covers in power metal:
- Gamma Ray - It's a Sin
- Heavenly - When the Rain Begins to Fall
- Horizons Edge - Holding Out For a Hero
Check the synths on that Heavenly song! All the electronic trends in modern EUPM come from stuff like that.
Gamma Ray - It's a Sin
Heavenly - When the Rain Begins to Fall
These are the same melody? The verse of the former, and the chorus of the latter? Or is my head messing with me? I'm kind of bad at spotting melodies when different instruments are used but some times I will notice weird things.
They're definitely close, although I don't think they're exactly the same. The Jermaine Jackson song came first in either case. If you want to hear something really uncanny, listen to these:
- https://youtu.be/fsWAIaotx3k
- https://youtu.be/j2F4INQFjEI
- https://youtu.be/KrZHPOeOxQQ
- https://youtu.be/4waVZXKE0GU
The Beast in Black one is absolutely an intentional homage, and you'll never convince me the others were accidental.
Hah, that was indeed uncanny. I love trivia/rabbit holes like this. I know all of those songs very well in fact, except the BiB new one... just had not noticed the pretty extreme similarities.
Not sure technically if this would qualify as covers or sampling, which is not something new of course. These seem more like a variation(?), so a bit different from when I hear new pop music at the gym or on stores and its very obvious that they simply steal a chorus or cover a whole song, usually something from the 80's or 90's, presumable because they don't have to write something new and most young people these days have not heard the original before.
I'm guessing I probably just have a 'bad ear' for these kinds of things, since I don't pick up on it instantly. I know how to play extremely basic guitar and piano, but don't know much about music theory. I maybe should look into music theory more if its realistic to get better at this just on a hobby basis.
I assume the reason there are so many '80s callbacks in pop nowadays is a deliberate stylistic choice. The same way a lot of current EUPM still references Helloween, a lot of current pop is referencing '80s pop. Some artists wear it on their sleeves (CHVRCHES got some attention for that a decade ago), but others bury it a little more.
As for learning more about music theory, I can only recommend it. As a fellow 'barely-musician' I've been able to pick up a lot just from YouTube and casually browsing Wikipedia to fill in the gaps. Honestly though, the most important thing, I think, is application. I make a conscious effort to think about the little theory knowledge I have whenever I listen to music, and that’s how I think I've come to the best understandings of things.
Cool, that means there's at least some hope I could learn more about stuff I haven't looked into in a long time. Appreciate the feedback.
About the styles, I shamelessly enjoy a lot of the 80's/90's stuff, but I'd also love to see some more high-brow (not meant as elitist) implementation of it, not just very memeable radio hits. If someone commited to writing a metal opera or prog concept album inspired by that style, I'd be absolutely thrilled.
Unleash the archers is the same the latest album is literally about an AI coming to life
And their previous album made heavy use of synth (via a synth pedal/effect on the guitars) as well.
Nothing will ever beat the fantasy themes for me although cyber metal isnt too bad
I think cyber metal tends to be more popular amongst more average/casual people who are not big metalheads, therefore it is just taking off. I've seen some okay new cyber themed bands that have TONS of listeners, while many new fantasy metal bands will have sub 5k
Orden’s Final Days is one of my favorite albums of all time 😊
I'm too out of touch with the mainstream of metal these days to notice trends (mostly because the current mainstream all sounds the same to me anyway), but I have noticed some cyber elements that seemed kind of strange in context, though not necessarily in a bad way. One of the new Sonata Arctica videos for example had a cyberpunk aesthetic. Amberian Dawn had some futuristic imagery in the recent past too. And then there's the increased references to retro video game aesthetics by some bands. I don't remember that happening so much a decade back. Maybe it's a real thing, I'm curious what other people have to say.
The retro thing in metal is both a tradition, and has really blown up lately. Some older bands just kept doing the 80's/90's classic heavy metal sound and never stopped, but I feel new metal bands more than in other genres have always respected and mimicked older bands. And in Power Metal, even more so. PM is retro and almost reactionary by definition IMO. Maybe that should be its own topic so it can be properly discussed or I can get properly downvoted for that opinion :P
Also anecdotal, but I noticed a increase in the retro trend around 2010. The early Battle Beast albums, with their first singer Nitte Valo, were very backwards looking with an 80's aesthetic in production, riffs, vocals, and album art, just with better production. Lots of other bands picked up on in, like Dragonforce increasingly leaning into the 80's/90's videogame and VHS aesthetic with synths and neon, or Lovebites playing 80's style thrash/heavy/power metal sounding like Megadeth/Metallica/Iron Maiden repeatedly. And just in the last 1-2 years, an ever increasing amount of new bands, with members born in the 90's and 00's also leaning into the retro aesthetics with synths, pixel art music videos, etc.
Hmm, it's interesting to consider a connection between the current "80s revival" and 80s pop song cover epidemic trend and the retro game visuals. Maybe that's the point where nostalgia and cyber meet.
Amaranthe's newest album art looks a lot like Symphony X's Iconoclast...
Lyric themes doesn’t create or define genres.
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Alestorm upon learning that pirate metal no longer exists thanks to your comment:
Yes they play power folk metal because singing about pirates doesn’t make pirate metal a thing.
It's like saying Disney metal is a genre because of Twilight Force. Just a fun way to describe it.
Pirate metal is a thing its just not a genre
The instruments are much more relevant than the actual lyrics. Their silly cover of hangover still has a piratey sound to it.
Amon Amarth is a better example. They sing about vikings, but are not viking metal.
Futuristic looking album cover arts do not mean the album is cyber metal...
I think I read somewhere that Orden Ogan made a sci-fi album because fans kept telling him something along the lines of, " You did pirates, western and horror, what's next? Sci-fi?".
To me, someone who honestly doesn't keep up with new definitions, if someone would ask me if I listened to cyber metal, I would just insinuate they meant something like Voivod.....
Power metal can be flavored with many themes : fantasy, sci-fi, social, humor... but I wouldn't go as far as saying that cyber metal is a genre per se. It's only a lyrical theme that may or may not reflect on the musical aspect (i.e. with synths or industrial-sounding guitars for example).
For sure there seems to be a trends to incorporate these elements in some productions these days. I'd call it retro-futuristic rather than cyber though.
So... Iron Savior's Megatropolis from '07 but with a bunch of keys? Also had a laugh at Dragonforce being considered 'new wave' twenty years after the fact.
I haven't really enjoyed the albums that have taken this direction. Final Days was far from my favorite from Orden Ogan because there was very little in the way of actual guitar work outside of the track Hollow. Phantoma was similarly far weaker than the two UtA albums that came before it for me largely due to the fact that the guitars and drums got lost in the mix. Iconoclast was good, but again, it was quite a step down from everything since Divine Wings for Symphony X.
The guitar work is a large part of why I listen to metal, and I haven't liked it being largely replaced by synth. With that said, I don't necessarily hate the use of synth as I feel you could still make a solid "cyber metal" PM album as long as you don't sacrifice the guitars.
As for sci-fi? It has been a part of PM forever. USPM albums from the early '80s incorporate it, and even if you ignore USPM, the first Iron Savior album isn't exactly new (and I'm sure that wasn't the first sci-fi EUPM album, just the first that comes to mind). And synth by itself isn't the problem; UtA's Abyss as well as Warlord's most recent are synth-heavy albums I enjoyed.
and I'm sure that wasn't the first sci-fi EUPM album, just the first that comes to mind
Scanner might be a good candidate for that. Gamma Ray and Stratovarius also had sci-fi-like themes in the 90s.
I absolutely love it
Is Amaranthe even considered PM? I thought they were considered metalcore
Amaranthe is a synth/pop/rock fusion band with some modern metalcore tendencies. They sort of run adjacent to the synthy "pop-metal" branch of EUPM, but they're not literally a power metal band. The stylistic similarity mostly comes from shared Eurobeat influences combined with distorted guitars. As such, there's a bit of crossover appeal, and I think they largely speak to the same audience.
Final Days by Orden Ogan is an absolutely incredible album. One of the best I’ve ever heard.
Absolutely! I love how they do concept albums and "AI apocalypse" was done spectacularly well.
Mechina
I fuck with The Catalyst tbh
Heart of the android goes way to hard tho
There's creativity freedom in PM that's good. And the trending in the last years is the nostalgia from the 90s, that's why these themes like LAZORD AND DINOSAURS are a thing again, you see it everywhere, how many "mini consoles" with old games have been released? Lol
That Orden Ogan Album is lit af, awesome!
I love Final Days, I must have played it through at work 4 or 5 times the past week. I don't know if cyber metal is a thing or not but I'm all for anything like Final Days
I didn't expect people arguing about the existence of cyber metal, but i know for sure it is a genre so here's a bit of clarification of the difference between industrial Metal and Cyber Metal
Industrial Metal tends to be more Mech like sounding, best example artist of this are
• Rammstein • V2A • The Enigma TNG • Alien Vampire • Cypecore • Geneburn • Combichrist • The Product (this dude is underground and so hard to find so here's the link on his project
Cyber Metal tends to be more electronic and "Spacey" like sounding
• Mechina • Mick Gordon • Rabbit Junk • Nitrovert • Celldweller • Soul Extract • Neurotech
The only reason there's a confusion between the 2 is because both of them have a Sci-fi theme but i hope this clarifies things up
The confusion is because they're both electronic fusion subgenres with dubious roots in the actual metal scene, so most metal fans have no idea what they are. They might have heard of industrial metal because of a few very popular artists with a lot of exposure, but cyber metal is more obscure. In any case, seeing the name a reading a quick description of what something sounds like is not the same thing as understanding what it is.
I can understand where you're coming from with the division between 'mech sounds' and 'space sounds' but that's not how I would describe it at all. It glazes over both subgenres' actual roots in electronic music by compressing several distinct styles and movements into trivial sound effects. Lots of hard rock and metal uses synthesizers with the potential for mech sounds and space sounds; what characterizes these as distinct subgenres is the fact that their roots go deeper.
Industrial is an electronic music subgenre with roots as far back as the 1970s. In the 1980s, there was a movement of pop and rock bands who took influence from industrial, along with darkwave and EBM, and incorporated aspects of those styles into a more accessible form for mainstream audiences. Ministry was a big one, and you can hear it clearly in how their sound evolved across the first several albums, with the integration of hard rock and industrial sensibilities.
This is where the concept of industrial metal comes from. It's not a direct product of the metal scene; it's a name for when industrial-adjacent music starts to sound ostensibly metallic. Ministry had metal influences, and their recent output especially has incorporated a fair bit of genuine metal riffing, but the genre as a whole is bigger than that. There have been a number of so-called industrial metal artists whose output doesn't really sound like industrial or metal, being closer to EBM for example.
Cyber metal is related, but it’s different. It’s more a product of expanding hard rock and electronic crossovers in the 1990s and 2000s. It was partly building off the evolving soundscape of ostensible industrial metal in the 1990s, but it incorporated a wider range of sounds. For example, I've seen The Kovanent associated with cyber metal, and they had roots in symphonic black and gothic metal, two styles which are themselves largely the product of electronic influences in metal.
Like industrial metal, a lot of so-called cyber metal isn't actually metal. It’s just a mashup of hard rock and electronic sensibilities that was broadly associated with metal at the mainstream level because of distorted guitars, harsh vocals, and whatnot. As such, it's seldom discussed in most metal forums, and a lot of metal fans have probably never heard of it, hence a lot of the confusion in this thread.
This is also why I think it's better to discuss the electronic aspects in new EUPM with the context of electronic aspects in old EUPM. While there may be some ostensible cyber metal influence in the new stuff, which might not have existed previously (Stratovarius was a more organic product of heavy/power and electronic stylings, outside the context of industrial and cyber metal), it's fairly minimal overall, and it's only going to confuse metal fans who haven't spent much time digging around the intricacies of hard rock and electronic fusion.
amaranthe album cover literally looks like a deathcore album cover.
Can we just start accepting all of it should really be called Nerd Metal?
The fuck is “Cyber Metal”? You made that up lol, sci fi has been a part of PM for decades