Scott and Bill Maher's Pro-Isreal stance?

I dunno about you all, but doesn't it seem strange to you that these two prominent Athiest are constantly scapegoating for Isreal?

Personally I can fully support an incursion into Palestinian following Oct 7th. But the blatent indescrement bombing and leveling entire neighborhoods, casualties of the general population, and other seeming war crimes against the Palestinian people is complete bullshit...

The history is true that Isreal has really fucked the state of Palestinian for decades and the Palestinians have had to deal with it for too long... Hamas as an organization and leadership in Palestinian has really fucked the Palestinian people as well with their corruption, rhetoric, and stance towards Isreal and the Israeli people... IMO...

Either way... Isreal has literally pronounced itself as a Jewish country... Which I think is problematic for a number of reasons... So why do these two "Atheist" go so hard for Isreal... I get their heritage is coming from a Jewish people... But wtf... Their supposed atheism seems counter to their blind faith in the approach Isreal is taking in this conflict... It's getting to be so constant in their rhetoric that it's hard to belive their in such a bubble they can't see what a gaping blindspot this is for their self-proclaimed liberal ideals...

I don't agree with any public figure 100%, but this issue seems to have been really lightning how everyone has a blindspot to their own BS and makes me question more and more of their other takes for sure...

in PivotPodcastby North_Finish_4399

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16d

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Resident-Welcome3901

16d

Scott and Bill understand the impact of the Holocaust on western thinking. Antisemitism was a staple behavior of Christian thought and Western behavior until it culminated in the vast embarrassment of the Holocaust. Western civilization suddenly recognized the horrors of anti semitism, and expiated millennia of sin by granting the Jews a homeland. The original plan in 1948, was a two state solution, which the Palestinians and Islamic states rejected, and started the continuous war that has lasted to this day. The Palestinian goal is the elimination of Israel. Until that goal changes, Israel can either fight or die.

North_Finish_4399

16d

This is interesting... I've had a few different periods of learning about the conflict in Palestinian and Isreal, few books, papers written foe my Poli Sci degree, and paid attention to the many docs and media about it over the decades... For sure there's a population in Palestine who's in the camp you proclaimed, want Isreal gone, but seems to me the population as a whole is people like anywhere else and not so hard lined...

I'd say the same for Iran, who's government has a hard line stance against the US but Iranian people as a whole are not that crazy...

The peace accords and proactive solutions were blown up from both sides in different times... Some for unreasonable request, some from reasonable ones, IMO, from both sides...

Palestines government has made horrible decisions... Hamas is a faction of that which has ruled for past decade plus... While at the same time Isreal has seemingly entrenched a functional police state for the county of roughly 2mil people... Which seems to feed the ongoing strife between the two... Feeding Hamas more fuel for radicalism...

Isreal is there to stay... I'm all for defending itself and breaking down any faction of a neighboring aggressors who would seek them harm...

Hence the I'm all for military action in response to Oct 7 or any attack... Provoked action requires a response... With that same logic though, the subjugation of Palestinian through Israeli policy provokes response as well...

This latest incursion seems to facilitate the growth of more radical stances from current and future Palestinians based on the current type of action being carried out.

Moreso, Isreal, by not taking the more nuanced approach, strategic incursions and a focus on preserving the life of civilians, they're really just promoting a more adversarial position in the region and the world's stage...

I'm a combat vet... US military has done some fucked up shit and that's my past as well being a military veteran, similar to American has a fucked up past that my past too being an American... A lot of people have compared Oct 7th to 9/11... I can definitely understand the comparison... I was, and am, ready to die going after any terrorist or terrorist supporting state which attacked the US... Or any that would seek to attack the US... But I have never and will never support the indescrement killing of civilians unless it had to be done in the moment of battle... And at that time it's by definition not indescrement... In the case of the US on the battlefield, it serves no purpose but to fuck us with the civilian population, and fuck future troops in country if we approach the population as assholes and/or subjugate and abuse or kill them... I'm no peace loving hippie, the world is a harsh place in many ways and some people need to die... However being a proud American I can't get behind any indescrement killing as that's where we lose automatically because if we're no better than the POS who would do that, we're just as much a POS... Isreal seems to be losing this understanding that western society has understood for generations... Not always carried out to the most honerable standard though of course...

As a Jewish government or not, Isreal is fucked by this approach, Jewish people are lumped in to the BS that comes with the label... Any anti-semeticism is BS as well... To quell this I don't see how Isreals current approach mitigates that and I'm saying if they want to be taken seriously then they need to move away from this type of tactic and the BS between Israeli supporters conflating the current conflict as a justified use of force when they're leveling communities and killing civilians...

Sorry for the rant...

Resident-Welcome3901

15d

Not a rant, well said, and hard to talk briefly about a situation that spans several thousand years, and has been aggressively mismanaged by Abrahamic religion nations as a proxy war among folks that nobody cares much about as human beings.