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Horace Hart in 1895. Horace was the inventor of the Oxford comma, and looks like the type of man to have the swagger to start an argument that lasts decades. Do you, or do you not use the Oxford comma?
Sometimes I do, sometimes, I don’t .
- the comma was specifically designed to facilitate the nature of cadence and phrasing— why would you put baby in the comma?
Here's to you! I too am versed in the ways of punctuation, spelling, and the Oxford comma.
EDIT: obviously my spelling skills are subpar.
Shouldn't that be a colon and not a semicolon?
And the occasional semicolon
NB: A semicolon is not the same thing as a bowel resesction!
Semicolons are just a half-assed pause.
There are many punctuation marks I use in my writing: asterisks, exclamation points and questions marks. However, an Oxford comma is not one of them.
No octothorps in the mix?
No interrobangs?
Never‽
I'm a fan of the ellipsis…
Great album, Mon the Biff!
And apparently spaces before punctuation !
But what about interrobangs‽
Oxford commas make text easier to read, so when I'm writing something public-facing, I include them.
I do, I always will and I'm a liar.
My junior high school English teacher told us that the Oxford comma was standard before newspapers:
Greedy newspaper publishers would remove the superfluous comma to make their articles shorter so they could fit extra advertising into their pages. Their typesetters were paid by the character, so they could also save nearly a ha'penny per fortnight in wages.
Of course - the whole family does¿
We use so much punctuation - that I have to buy it in bulk ~ but this month the delivery has been delayed ÷ forcing me / unhappily / to make do with some left=overs 》
When it improves intelligibility of the written word, yes.
It just makes sense in a list else the last two items come off as a separate dependent clause.
The planet is slowly depleting its comma supply. It is estimated that by 2034 there won’t be enough commas left for normal use and run-on sentences will be the norm. This will lead to mass confusion and cost taxpayers billions of dollars by mid-century. I refuse to use the Oxford comma in order to preserve life as we now know it for my grandchildren. Save The Comma!
The problem is, not the use, but, instead, the abuse.
The flat-earthers deny it, but people need to be educated. Last person to read, please recycle the commas.
But it's the use (misuse) of commas that leads to run-ons via comma splices.
Not usually, no. In Britain, a lot of us are taught that we only really need to use it if a list absolutely needs it for you to be able to differentiate the last things in it. There's no real consistent usage of it here.
There’s no consistent usage of it in the USA, either—hence the argument.
For what it’s worth, I think English as a language is inconsistent enough to warrant the use of the Oxford comma. There has to be something consistent in the language, right?
There is extremely consistent usage of the OC in the US and Britain...by those who know what the fuck is up.
the Oxford comma is essentially mandatory in scientific and legal writing. failure to use it has led to expensive misreadings
IMO that is the absolute worst way to handle it and only leads to more grammar mistakes for no reason. People should be taught to either always use it or never use it and rewrite their sentences. Rewriting limits you, so the comma should most logically always be used.
This is generally how it’s taught in Canada as well. Don’t use it unless you absolutely need it for clarity.
I’d like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God.
I use the Oxford comma for the same reason that I always put a 0 in front of single digit numbers: It's more precise and to do so is sacrosanct to me.
You seem like an insufferable bastard.
Accordingly, let’s be friends! Drinks at my place.
But do you count starting with zero, or do you count starting at 1, I must know!
Every software developer just groaned reading this
In pleasure, right? Right?
Ehhh...you better watch your back tonight
Ohh, daddy, don't threaten me with a good time 😂
Pleasure. The big 0, if you will.
Former C programmer, I start with zero.
There are no former C programmers.
You have merely back slid, and you, too, will one day return to whence you were whelped.
Don't think that'll happen. I'm 75 and retired from coding in 2013. We're talking serious rust here.
Rust is just a very sloppy form of C. Just because you're using a new language doesn't mean for a minute that you've forgotten your original one. 🤣🤣
Only 0 way to find out!
User deleted comment
7mo
Yeah baby!
In that case, quiz time! In the sentence below, how many people were in attendance and who donated the cup?
Those at the ceremony were the commodore, the fleet captain, the donor of the cup, Mr. Smith, and Mr. Jones.
5 people and the donor is unnamed. If an entry on the list requires commas, such as implied by "the donor of the cup, Mr. Smith . . ." then list items should instead be separated by semi-colons.
Interesting... anyone care to hazard a different opinion? We want a grammatical battle to the death here.
No, I am with r/InsuranceToTheRescue, to the death! Bring it morons!
Are commas commutative or associative? Left associative?
That's all part of the challenge my friend, it would spoil things to give you clues. Embrace the sacrosanct precision of the Oxford comma... ;)
Four.
The commodore.
The fleet captain.
Mr. Smith, who donated the cup.
Mr. Jones.
Ooo! And u/dcrothen hits 'em with the steel chair! Can u/InsuranceToTheRescue get up in time?
Of course I do, I’m not a savage.
Savages think commas function as full stops.
And that they will defend against run-on sentences and comma splices.
Here, my friend - I think you need this: ";".
Of course I do; I'm not a savage.
🎶Who gives a fuck about the Oxford comma 🎶
Came here for this.
I've seen those English dramas too, they're cruel.
At least it's not a period piece.
Lil John, he always tells the truth
We recently told our middle schooler that he comes from an Oxford comma family and we will not tolerate, approve, or condone failure to place a comma before the conjunction at the end of a list.
I like to, you know, just throw commas in, for effect, wherever I can, you know? It really gives my writing, like, that Christopher Walken/Tommy Chong effect, man.
I though that’s what “ … “ was for?
I would say that yes, the correct way to achieve that effect is through use of ellipses. Commas have other functions but that is not one of them.
I only know because I’ve been… mocked for using them. But it’s also how I actually speak. Either because I’m thoughtful or because I’ve been concussed too many times.
😅 Let's go with option number one.
All these dudes around the turn of the century had such distinguished looking beards, its a shame if i was to grow one like that today people would just think I'm some hipster
Just wear a full cloak along with it
Nothing says "totally NOT a hipster" like a full beard and a full cloak.
I eat, breath, live, laugh, and love by the Oxford comma.
I do occasionally use the Oxford comma. Once in a while I want to create separation amongst the words for effect.
More of a Cambridge Comma man myself.
Is there actually an argument - except inertia and laziness - against the use of the Oxford comma? Is there any sentence in English that is clearer and more easily understood because of its absence?
Yes, there is an argument.
The last "and" in a list is by default a separator and therefore a comma isn't needed. If your last "and" isn't supposed to be the last separator you must recompose your sentence.
Ironically the introduction of the Oxford Comma has caused more confusion because users who were taught the Oxford Comma expect to see it rather than understand how the original rule works and why historically newspapers and the like never adopted it. It's worth at least knowing the original rule even if you're a massive fan of the Oxford Comma because the bulk of English literature doesn't use it.
Do not
shit we can't get people to use basic commas let alone oxford commas
You know who doesn't use the Oxford comma? Rachel Ray. Rachel Ray is also the kind of person who finds inspiration in cooking her family and her dog.
Let’s eat grandma. Commas save lives.
I fucking love Oxford commas.
I use it as well
Why is everyone here thinking that a comma for tempo/pacing is an Oxford comma?
An Oxford comma is ONLY when you are listing things and put a comma before the last and (OR or).
If you just use commas you're not using Oxford commas, and it's really stupid looking to claim you are.
Fucking pretentious morons.
I always use it.
There are three kinds of people in the world; those who use an Oxford comma, those who don’t, and those who, strew commas, all over, their sentences.
I am Team Oxford comma, with no excuses, exceptions, and excuses that are lies.
The Oxford comma is a great way to add clarity to the sentence. I love it.
I’m mostly, concerned, what the fuck, an Oxford coma, is,
That's bunch of Shatner commas, or Walken commas for those too young for the original Star Trek.
The second comma in: "the American flag has the colors red, white, and blue."
It does add a certain meter, readability, and clarification to sentences which contain lists or multiple things.
And boy howdy are there a lot of people here who don't completely understand the Oxford comma. For example, the comma used in this sentence is not an Oxford comma.
Of course, I use the Oxford comma. Was I raised in a barn? Are we savages?
Oxford comma forever!! It's points out the very important difference between hanging out with "my sister and wife," and "my sister, and wife."
You better hope your lawyer does
Horace was the inventor of the Oxford comma, and looks like the type of man to have the swagger to start an argument that lasts decades.
I would have done him. Especially if he named a dangling participle after me
I use it less and less. I’m now more apt to be creative where appropriate.
When I was learning English I was taught this by default, I had no idea it was up for discussion.
I don’t, but Grammarly insists that I do. Regret that extension more every day
I'm aware of a regular comma, waht is an Oxford comma?
It is lazy and illiterate.
I do, because it makes sense.
TIL. I have always used it because when itemizing things it very clearly delineates a separate item. Never knew it had a name until today or that it was controversial.
I do because it's intuitive and makes sense to use if you like being particular about the flow you want to give your writing. In fact, I was using it before I even learned what it was.
As a former English teacher, I always taught my students the Oxford comma and then let them decide. In short lists, it seems overkill. In longer lists, I understand. What the world needs know is peace, love and understanding. BOOM.
Edit: But I always warned students to be very suspicious of people who argued about grammar. Gotta keep your head on a swivel.
The Oxford Comma actually had an "inventor"? What, was the guy working in his lab late one night when he had his "Eureka" moment? Was he toiling over beakers and test tubes and mockups and prototypes? Do his lab notes indicate the number of trials and attempts to combine a period and a comma? What was the risk involved with halving a colon or semicolon? Was he sponsored? Did he have a grant? Is there a chalkboard somewhere with his notes and scribbles?
Oh, hell yes. Never let a comma go to waste.
I do sometimes, if I think it is necessary to avoid people grouping together list-items that would naturally go together.
For example: "The statesman, the orator, the politician, and the pig, all had something to say about the subject of debate at the agricultural fair". Clearly it's completely necessary now, as it was in 1900, to not make someone think - which would otherwise be entirely natural - that you were calling a single person a statesman, orator, politician and a pig. Because that would obviously be the first thought any person would have, were it not for the oxford comma saving the day. And then the second thought obviously would be that the politician and the pig were together in their appeals.
But no more! Thanks to the Oxford comma, the guardian of clear, and inconfusing speech everywhere, I am now able to throw in pigs next to politicians without fear of creating any misunderstanding.
...>_> ....<_<
I use it religiously. I belong to the Holy Order of the Comma of Oxford. Bow to its greatness.
Yes, yes, yes, and yes!
I use it here, there, and everywhere.
The Oxford comma is a waste of space, ink and time. Do you see how I clearly made my point without its use?
you don't, obviosuly, idiot.
Always,
The Oxford comma is useless. I’ll tell you who didn’t need it: the strippers, JFK and Stalin.
There is literally no reason to not use the Oxford comma.
I probably, use it, incorrectly. My punctuation is, terrible.
I use the Oxford comma but I would push him over and tell him how many people I've known that failed an English test (especially migrant students) because it's a ridiculous idea that I've attuned to and English professors really like to be snarky.
So many of you people just don't get it. This argument has an authority with which to reference. At least for the British English it does. Oxford University is the OFFICIAL keeper of the language. This responsibility is bestowed by the royal monarch. If Oxford says English should be done a certain way, then they have that authority. The Oxford comma isn't an opinion, it is a fact. It is not an option, it is necessary.
A hero for pedants everywhere
Of course I use it!
You have to use it if you want to unambiguously express those particular semantics.
Use it, appreciate it, and insist upon it.
It's not simply a choice, it can be used to remove ambiguity, depending on the sentence:
- I would like to thanks my parents, Nelson Mandela, and the Queen.
- I would like to thank my mother, the Queen and God
The first sentence would be ambiguous without it; the second sentence would be ambiguous with it.
This is more fun with Hitler, Stalin, and a stripper.
a bit harder to construct an ambiguous sentence though
Yeah. I meant to make strippers plural.
The strippers, Hitler and Stalin, arrived late.
The strippers, Hitler, and Stalin arrived late.
#2 is ambiguous without it. It looks like you could be saying your mother, the Queen, and God are the same person. The Oxford comma removes the ambiguity.
Fortunately there are non-comma ways to insert an aside. So you could thank your mother - the Queen - and God quite easily. If she is both l, you could thank your mother: the Queen and God. If you're using commas, God, the Queen, and your mother are all three being thanked.
Now if we get into problems involving the strippers, JFK and Stalin and who eats, shoots, and leaves, then all bets are off.
the comma doesn't remove ambiguity there... if I say "my mother, the Queen, and God", I could be saying that my mother is the Queen, so it is ambiguous. I would argue that that is a more likely misreading than my mother being the Queen and God though :)
I was taught to write the sentence so that the Oxford comma was not required. Using sentence 1, it would be
I would like to thank Nelson Mandela, the Queen and my parents.
me too, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the way I wrote it. It's grammatical and unambiguous. Injudicious use or disuse of the Oxford comma however will create ambiguity
I'm going to the party and I'm bringing the strippers, Hitler, and Stalin.
I'm going to the party and I'm bringing the strippers, Hitler and stalin.
The Oxford comma is absolutely necessary.
Definitely, it helps me differentiate between helping my uncle jack off his horse, and helping my uncle jack, off his horse.
That’s awesome!!! But it’s not the Oxford comma.
Absolutely, I do. I feel naked without it.
Use it and then never worry about the clarity of your list again.
The Oxford comma is a must.
I do. Often, frequently, and regularly.
Do you, or do you not, use the Oxford comma?
Yes; I do.
Nah cos it’s ain’t proper language
Never
OXFORD COMMA FOR LIFE!!!
Yes, I use the Oxford comma. It started to make sense once I was taking higher level math and computer programing in college. The Oxford comma is like an order of operations for verbal communication.
I do!
I'm a grammar purist and a communication specialist. I'm often torn between the two.
I once was against it, until it was explained to me. The additional clarity it provides is of benefit.
Fuck, yeah!
Oxford comma all day every day.
Indeed, I use the Oxford comma.
Who gives a f*** about an Oxford comma?
If I had a time machine, I'd stop this man. And Steve Wilhite. I can't think of anyone else I would stop that existed between these time periods.
I use them so that my writing has the same timing as if I was speaking it aloud.
I would love to talk to the programmer, who wrote the voice to text app and ask him what the fuck he was thinking. Like that comma right there. Nobody would pause there.
Seems the consensus is that the Oxford comma is a must, you’re a barbarian if you don’t use it, and some other thing goes here.
I do not! I work in proofreading and I make it a special point to delete any Oxford commas I see.
I prefere using the oxford comma and recently just stopped working for a publishing company that didn't want us to use them. It always annoyed me.
It’s funny because my girlfriend always jokes me for using commas in my texts, but I like it!
Yes!
This dude commas!
Definitely use the Oxford comma.
Oxford comma gang rise up!
Always
The Oxford comma reduces confusion.
Just ask JFK and Stalin.
I for one, love the Oxford comma.
I love, and use them even when I don't, and need them!
Always, always, and always
Though the Oxford comma has been deprecated I still use it at every opportunity
It’s the only way these guys could flex on each other back in the day. Absolute Chads.
I like faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and Oxford commas.
Oxford comma for life.
Yes, yes, and yes! I am pro Oxford comma!
I don’t understand why anyone WOULDN’T use the Oxford comma. It provides much more clarity than not using one. There are no benefits to not using an Oxford comma.
Yes, I do use it.
I’m a writer by profession. Oxford comma or busy.
I am all about the Oxford comma. Now Oxford as the "real" Shakespeare, not so much.
The Oxford comma is the only way, and I’ll die on that hill
I thought the word ‘and’ couldn’t come after a comma. It’s one or the other.
I was taught not to, but always had a feeling that writing would generally be clearer with it, long before I ever heard of the controversy. Now that I’ve heard about it, I feel free to use it anytime I like: in a box, with a fox, while wearing fuzzy socks.
So, I used to be hardline on this. But, as copy editor entering their 17th year, I’ve softened.
A more senior editor asked me to give an actual example of it truly being necessary—and I couldn’t.
If it helps the readership, then let’s use it. If not, let’s not waste that ink.
I would try not to as a rule but there are times when it makes sense.
It might not be proper but it can be helpful.
Only when necessary for the sake of clarity. In most circumstances, the Oxford comma is unnecessary.
Yes, I use the Oxford comma.
No I don't.
I was taught that the last "and" is already a separator and if it causes confusion you should re-arrange your sentence. Thus for me the Oxford Coma is an unnecessary addition.
If you weren't taught this rule in school I can understand why you see the need for the Oxford Coma. I've found fans will mostly (but not always) have not been taught this, so of course they believe the Oxford Coma is logical and can't understand the resistance to it.
Who gives a fuck about an Oxford comma
I've seen those English dramas tooO!
Those downvoting this are having a whoosh moment. Damn song was straight into my head.
Thank you! Can’t believe there are people who aren’t getting it
It's probably whooshing by everyone over 40. I'm 57, but thankfully my kids introduced me to Vampire Weekend's music a long time ago. After hearing that song once, you'll never not hum or whistle it after hearing the words "Oxford comma" ever again...
Only in "and and" situations.
Nice touch on using it yourself though 👍
What a guy.
Don’t talk to me if you don’t use the Oxford comma
There are many things I use in my life; asterisks, exclamation points, questions marks, and Oxford commas !